#desu2 protagonist

[chivalry-ramu]

[phantasyhalation]

what were your thoughts on Devil Survivor 2?

DeSu2—well, the base Septentrione Arc specifically—is one of the best MegaTen games. Despite the reputation, I feel I am enough of a longtime and well-versed fan to say that with confidence. It's been a while—about three and a half years—since I last played it, but writing this up really makes me want to give it another spin sooner or later. That's the short of it. Here's the long!

The story is fairly good! Unlike most other post-SNES SMTs, it doesn't take itself too seriously, and this works to its benefit. Joe is only so good as a character as he is because he is allowed to be a little bumbling as Some Guys are just Like That, and it serves to really humanise him when his personal drama does come up—his comedy isn't reductive. Plenty characters do take themselves seriously enough, too—Ronaldo, Daichi, Anguished Twink, Jungo, and Otome would be my favourites. I think Hibiki's (canon?) jokester characterisation could've been handled better by the localisation, as a lot of his dialogue options have aged in quite an embarrassing and out-of-place fashion, but I'm fine with a protagonist who can take all this less seriously: he's generally fine in the latergame too, once everything really goes under. You also get a better sense as to why people like him than other SMT protagonists with friends, barring maybe Nanashi, who is hilarious for entirely different reasons.

As for the Actual Events, I agree with the common criticism that the plot feels far lower-stakes than other entries in a way incongruent with the actual action and its expectations of the audience. The safety net of routine is the real killer here. Characters have little agency for most of the game, and taking your orders from a . DeSu2 is, at heart, an Evangelion spoof—working under not-NERV without much say in the matter is kinda core to what the kids there went through, but most of the DeSu2 cast aren't Kids like Eva's, and none have the personal connections which should bind them to Actual Insane Alignment Rep Yamato for most of the game. That they work with

However, the Themes and the Inspirations are chuuni as hell. SMT game wherein the demons are a product of the (publicly) unprophesied Fermi Paradox-Theosophy Doomsday Event wrought by Evangelion Angels? It's just cool. That the characters can suffer considerable loss and debilitating stress under conditions wherein they are allowed to Exist outside of survival mode is a unique perspective on the general formula, too—I'd say most of the cast is weaker than DeSu1's, but that's the franchise gold standard. The novelty of the setting and circumstance carries the game relative to other titles, and it's all executed well enough until it Gets Really Good in the last few days: this is good writing quality by SMT standards—which are not the ultimate standards!, but lends itself to a really enjoyable time.

As I wrote about at length while sleep deprived earlier this year, I also think it has the most interesting take on alignment. Devil Survivor Overclocked and Strange Journey are my favourite iterations of the "traditional" framework for optimistic and pessimistic portrayals, but I think the series largely lost its way with the gimmick starting with Nocturne. I found both the Realpolitik Brainwashing Solutions and Kill God Routes to be far more interesting than your standard fare, and generally well-executed to boot—though Yamato's take on LolMeritocracy is about as edgy and pathetic as you can get for Chaos. Ronaldo was right, though. If you could make humans better with the Make Humans Better Button, that is a good thing to do. You should even stomach collaborating with God for it.

(Yamato is kind of a Lol character in general, and his presence alone ensured I'd never like the game's writing as much as I do DeSu1: Triangulum Arc was a mistake, and I do not consider it at all when writing on the game. Play Record Breaker for the QOL, and drop it after however many playthroughs of these games satisfy you. There is nothing to be gained in there.)

Oh, and the gameplay is far better than DeSu1. More or less everyone agrees on this—it's a good hybrid-style tactical-turn based RPG. Everything is better balanced! Far less grinding! More interesting skill distributions, and better fusion pacing! Particularly, I really appreciated being able to run a physical build in the original and in Record Breaker, because that's ill-advised even in 1OC what with the skill system. The party building is also far better-paced, and I enjoyed the early challenge posed by my favourite Anguished Twink's route moreso than anything on offer in DeSu1.

I don't have as much to say on the OST, as it's the only part where I expressly prefer DeSu1's—but it does have far more variety, and some real bangers regardless. 戦慄/Shiver, BreakOut, 対峙/Confrontation, Septentrion, 世界の管理者/Overseer of the World are all certified bangers. Oh, and Battle of the Brave. She can stay, of course.

I'd have more precise comments if I had the motivation to go on a wiki or Youtube dive to refresh my memory, but alas: the time. Good video game! I wish Atlus was trying new things with the franchise as much as they used to—I'm very tired of watching them lean poorly on old staples. Play Artificial Dream in Arcadia for the real SMTVI.

[eirikrjs]

Forgive me if this has been asked before but I was hoping to get some elaboration to why you think Desu2 characters are flat. I understand some are, but I feel as though most have quality, or maybe I'm confusing likability with quality. I feel like most of my issues of the game come from lack of intersection with the fate links and main story rather than the characters themselves, but I'd appreciate to hear your thoughts

So, to answer this generally, when I was writing up the character section for the Fan Myths last year, I drew upon what I was taught in school about flat vs. round characters. But one source I found said something that really left me shook, in a way:

It says in its discussion of flat characters (those that are "superficial" and "predictable") versus round characters (those that are "complex" and more like actual people) that Luke Skywalker is a flat character. I weighed it for a bit, contrasting with how Luke makes choices and changes even in the first film, but in the end I couldn't disagree. Luke is styled after mythic heroes who, while they may suffer and grow over the course of their stories, are symbols of human ideals, not realistic human behavior. Luke is likable because we can vicariously live the adventure through him and his relatable and archetypal flaws and quirks, in spite of never being allowed too closely into his headspace and emotional spectrum.

Another Star Wars character that contrasts well with Luke is honestly one of my favorites of the Disney era or anytime before really, because he's so atypical for the franchise. He's not a hero, not worthy of admiration. In fact, he's pathetic and contemptible. And, as we learned last week, he's a creepo stalker guy. Of course, he's Syril Karn from Andor.

His story is far from over, but so far he's all flaws and I've found him fascinating. His might be the narrative developments I look forward to the most every week. And while there are no internal monologues in the show, Andor's effective writing gives Syril more complexity than you would expect for a (seemingly) tertiary Star Wars character. He gets his clothing specially tailored to stand out. He desperately seeks recognition and oversteps boundaries and his own ability to earn it (it so far has always backfired). He's committed to the fascist ideals of the Empire but can only land a faceless and monotonous data processing job and only through his uncle's connections. There are more angles to Syril than these, yet Luke has just one.

I won't say Syril is a round character yet, but he has that potential. Unlike Luke, he's layered and his future is unpredictable. His story may have some logical end points but he's not a hero or protagonist, so there's no guaranteed outcomes. It is odd to think that there may be more depth to Syril than Luke freakin' Skywalker, but Andor also has a far different approach an aims than the main Star Wars movies, so it may be apples and oranges.

But as the above article states, flat characters can still be likeable. I mean, I own maybe three dozen Luke Skywalker action figures so it's fair to say I like that character. The problem with flat characters from pop culture avenues like movies and games is that their superficialities often result in overuse of archetypes. I will say I don't care for a lot of characters in games like Devil Survivor, Persona, or even SMT because I've seen their archetypes before. There often is no attempt at additional complexity because it wouldn't fit the genre and expectations of an established game series or sequel. Hence, these characters become predictable and rote, which affects enjoyment of the work.

And speaking of action figures, pop culture characters reflect them in that they are manufactured to be appealing to their audiences. Even if they are flat and superficial, they still appeal because they are designed to be, from character design to familiar archetype. And that's okay! We might lose our minds if we rejected all but the most complex characters. So if you can buy merch of them, there's a real chance the character isn't all that deep.

[elendsessor]

Kayuza (desu) or Kazuya (smt1 protag) for the character list thing?

don’t know much about kazuya smt 1 but ye i can do kazuya desu! (ik his name in the manga is kazuya but i tend to call him abel so i hope you don’t mind if i use that :))

favorite thing about them?

we may all make jokes about it but. the cat ear headphones are wonderful + his badass capes in the law and chaos runs!

2. least favorite thing?

while i really like the art style a couple of his sprites aren’t the best but that’s all not much to say lol

3. favorite line?

man i loved it when abel said it’s “devil survivin’ time!” and devil survivor’d all over the bels

4. brotp

dude chills with atsuro every day let’s be real. both are THE bros

5. otp

i actually view abel as aromantic! on a platonic level definitely him with atsuro and yuzu but don’t ship them

6. notp

i hate how much fanfiction exists that pairs abel and cainoya together idc if they aren’t real they’re siblings and naoya is also just really manipulative so doesn’t sit right :////

7. random headcanon

i like thinking the headphones also function as hearing aids or something :D

8. unpopular opinion of them

dunno much about opinions in the desu side of the megaten fanbase so i’m not sure if i have any for abel??? a part of me wished if the protagonist was instead the incarnation of cain and naoya abel where all these centuries being reincarnated molded him into being better meanwhile naoya would be bitter about being killed and blaming god for not preventing his death despite being all knowing? idk it definitely conflicts with the plot and all but i think it would actually make things more interesting.

9. song i associate with them

uhhhhhh nyan cat theme-

10. favorite picture of them?

i love concept or promo sketches so automatically when i learned about there being a promo sketch of him and desu2’s protag of course i was over the moon

i friggin love shit like this. kinda reminds me of a few of nomura’s promo sketches for kingdom hearts/twewy for some reason??

[howtodigatrench]

dawn

dress is ‘stars in her eyes’ by lirika matoshi

[chibikleo]

Since today is August 15 and it’s Daichi’s birthday... Happy Birthday to him!

[nemirutami]

Makoto or Minato?

Unless you want him to share a name with these 2, then it’s Minato.

Makoto Yuki is his movie name, if I’m not mistaking.

[eatingfireflies]

law and chaos in dx2 liberation

Oh hey 10 years after Dx2 came out, I’m going to talk about it. 

Inspired by this post which I stumbled upon while looking for Jabo screencaps and pretty much sums up my general reaction to Dx2′s storyline as a whole: Wtf is happening here?  Also, why is Einherjar such an asshole?

Quick recap of the story so far: protagonist downloads an app via recommendation of popular video streamer Megakin. They are greeted by Einherjar, who tells them they are capable of summoning demons using the app (aka a Devil Downloader or Dx2 for short). Einherjar also says there are two groups of Dx2s battling each other, namely the Liberators and the Acolytes. Somehow, it’s decided the protag will join the Liberators and help stop whatever it is the Acolytes are planning on doing, which has something to do with this thing called Vanitas. 

The protag does have an alignment, which will become affected by the dialogue choices the player makes in game, but it doesn’t affect the gameplay at all. You can choose one option in Chapter 6 for the final battle in Odaiba and then come back instantly and choose the other option to get the alternate Odaiba battle, no biggie. Your alignment doesn’t really have anything to do with the routes... so the whole thing is pretty much cosmetic imo. But how come choosing to be ruled in order to survive considered a Chaos point?

Because Einherjar is an asshole and Astaroth is an inconsistent fuck. 

I have a problem with how the ‘celestial’ beings in Dx2 handled the plot and that’s why I’m writing this. I’m biased, but I’ll try to explain why. 

1, From the start, the Acolytes are framed as bad guys. Unlike most Megatens where you start off with nothing but worrying about survival before choosing your path, Dx2 starts you off with the Liberators from the start. They give you very little incentive to think of the Acolytes as in any way worthy of sympathy or your time. By the time you reach the fork in the road and Astaroth offers you a chance to switch loyalties, there’s very little reason for you to do so. The Acolytes themselves don’t even work with each other: they all have their different motivations that barely have anything to do with each other. Why would you even align yourself with that? But okay, at least their group as is Chaotic as the game labels them.  

2, It’s not that I don’t think different motivations is bad. While the other Liberators have their own personal goals, they’re united by their sense of justice and doing what’s ‘right’. The Acolytes, on the other hand  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ they’re a bunch of various corrupt individuals who do whatever they want, and by the time the Big Plan is revealed by the highers up, it’s kinda too late for us to care. So what is it the Acolytes supposedly want?

Joshua Hawke: wants to return the world into a state where nature is untarnished by humans.

Jabo Kakuryu: posits that destruction goes hand in hand with civilisation and implies destruction is needed for humanity to go forward. This somewhat ties in with what Joshua is saying (for the earth to be saved, some humans have to die). Finally, we seem to be getting somewhere. 

3, Except not really. Poor Astaroth, he’s doing his best to sell this gig but the plot does its best to thwart him to the point of him contradicting his own actions. 

It doesn’t help Joshua doesn’t trust Astaroth and at a critical point ignored his warnings about Vanitas (which resulted in the ‘bad end’). Like, Joshua really? Which one of you can see the future, buddy? 

Let’s try to break the whole thing down and I’ll do my best because tbh I don’t know:

Vanitas (comparable to Polaris in DeSu2) judges if mankind deserves to continue existing.

Astaroth sees the destruction of mankind in the future and decides to support the Acolytes in the guise of Jabo, in order to help save humanity.

Joshua Hawke, as advised by Jabo, intends to use Vanitas’s power to get what he wants. The Acolytes need to cause enough chaos to make Vanitas do something, but not enough that Vanitas would deem to destroy all of humanity. Just enough to clear the room a bit, you know?

Joshua doesn’t do that, but that comes later. 

Astaroth invites the protag to join the Acolytes’ cause, as it’s the ‘only’ way for humanity to survive. 

Shiori and Einherjar point out the flaw in Astaroth’s logic: if Astaroth’s predictions are infallible and the future can’t be changed, then why did he bother supporting the Acolytes? Also, the moment Astaroth interfered with humanity’s fate, he ceased to see a concrete future: Astaroth can’t see his own fate. 

Astaroth doesn’t defend himself despite these arguments being beside the point. Astaroth jumping into the fray doesn’t change the fact that Vanitas is going to pop in to judge mankind anyway. It’s going to happen, no matter what the Liberators and Acolytes do; what Astaroth is doing is just offering people a way to get through this alive somehow. He created a branching timeline: nothing more, nothing less. Saying he’s not infallible doesn’t destroy his arguments because his ‘route’ is based on the provable fact that Vanitas is coming. But the game seems to forget this I guess? 

Einherjar then (hilariously) points out that siding with Astaroth would mean being caged. By what? The Acolytes’ dogma? But the Acolytes don’t even listen to Astaroth. Astaroth himself has been consistently chill about humans doing whatever they want. In fact, when he and Einherjar agree not to interfere with humans after protag makes their decision to either be free or live like a cow, Astaroth honours his promise and stands back, no matter which side you choose (although he would try to give you tips if you side with him). Einherjar on the other hand would try to punish you for betraying him and the Liberators (the Acolytes route is a bit harder than the Liberators route because you have to fight Einherjar). This doesn't even equal how you have to fight Dadga in the Bonds Route of SMT4: Apocalypse, because we don't owe Einherjar anything--unlike Dagda who literally had to revive Nanashi's dead body in exchange for doing what Dagda asks.

So there you are, with Astaroth who will honour your decisions and Einherjar who wants you to choose the Liberators' side no matter what. Like how is that different from being 'caged'? This guy is basically showing you how you'll be punished if you step over the line.

Ah, but that does sound like the Law route doesn't it?

The choice Astaroth presents the protag goes against the usual Chaos route trappings of anarchy and disorder (quite the opposite actually), but the very different ways Astaroth and Einherjar react to protag's decisions kinda hark back to the harsher consequences of the usual SMT game.

eta: Jabo's speech about civilisation and destruction going hand in hand did NOT age well

[curiooftheheart]

Didn't know you played Devil Survivor, do you have a favorite character?

Yeah it’s been a fair while since I touched them (or any DS/3DS game) but I played both.

Probably Atsuro or Black Frost in 1. I tend to like cool bro-type characters and also like that Atsuro is a nerd but a physical attacker.

I played DeSu2 far more extensively. If I had to pick a solid one favorite character probably Jungo because I just like his personality and enjoy humans getting to punch the shit out of demons. Otome best girl imo.

I also enjoy that both protags get a fair bit of personality for a silent protagonist.

[incorrectdevilsurvivorquotes]

Hibiki Character Impression

The ultimate bunny boy: Hibiki Kuze

(This ended up so long so most of the opinion under cut)

Initial Impression: Honestly I wanted his bunny hoodie so bad that it was the original reason I looked into the game since DeSu2 was the first Devil Survior game that I played. So needless to say I thought his design was pretty cute.

Impression Now: If you have picked up nothing else from this blog you will know I think Hibiki is a massive troll and I love him for it. Some of his dialogue is off the walls bonkers and it’s refreshing to be able to play as a protagonist who tries to be the comic relief of the group to keep everyone’s spirits up. His ability and willingness to reach out to everyone no matter their stance or personality or down right hostility at times is impressive. On top of that I enjoy his optimism in the face of ridiculous odds. Like if the entire world going to hell wasnt enough now you gotta face the very laws of the universe have fun Hibiki.

Favorite scene: All of his troll moments hold a nice place in my heart, and if you’ve seen my Yamato post you know that his fate events are also so good. But Hibiki becoming an administrator with Daichi crying, and the rest of the Hotsuins & Alcor just sadly accepting it. That tore out my heart. 

Favorite relationship: Yamahibi ( To save you my ramblings again check out my Yamato post here ) Daichi, Io, and Alcor are also top faves for interactions with Hibiki. 

Favorite headcanon: 

My primary one is that Hibiki has major Martyr complex/need to protect everyone at all times even at risk to himself. This might just be me reading into the Triangulum arc dialogue way too much but a decent amount of people mention that Hibiki is pushing himself pretty far and he should rely on them. Off the top of my head I remember Daichi expressing serious concern if you try to write off you phasing out of existence, and Hinako and Otome also express concerns. 

The culmination of this is in the True end and the Administrator end of the Triangulum arc. In the true end Hibiki puts his trust in not only in his friends but all of humanity. He has to put control in other people’s hands rather than take it upon himself. In comparison the Administrator arc is Hibiki succumbing to his need to protect everyone. He can’t stand the idea of anyone else having to suffer the fate of being an administrator thus takes it upon himself. On top of that, one of the reasons that Hibiki chose The Administrator route is being Alcor and Hibiki are scared of what could happen in the other routes. They believe they need to take the fate of the world upon their own hands, and their refusal to rely on others is highlighted in the way they keep it a secret. 

Unpopular opinion: Hibiki has an underlying manipulative streak and iron spine underneath his joking manner. You get in the way of his plans to protect his friends or achieve his goals, and he’ll mess you up. 

Story idea: 

To be perfectly honest with you all, I actually did start writing a Hibiki centric fic a few years back. It was going to be a mass re-write of the entire game with internal dialogue commentary from Hibiki. It included extra scenes in between main story event to help flesh out concepts and relationships not delved into much in the game. There was also some deviations from the original game to keep it from being too much like just reading the script, especially towards the end of the game and in the Triangulum arc. Basically it was a enhanced let’s play in text form kinda. The crux of the comedy was going to be from Hibiki developing the most ill timed crush of all time, by falling for the very sketchy government leader of the very sketchy government demon organization in the middle of the goddamn apocalypse. I stand by my opinion that Hibiki is a disaster Bisexual. Even so I was debating a version without that whole relationship plot line.

Mostly I wanted to explore more of the what the story hinted at: 

 -How exactly Hibiki got so talented with demons (actually communicating with and learning from the demons in his party, as well as a healthy dose of mythology knowledge)

- More about the apocalypse and it’s effects on the population. Since the game kinda drops off emphasizing it towards the later game besides some mentions of Ronaldo’s rioters. 

-Why demons are attacking humans and how they work?

-What kind of backstory must Hibiki have to want to please and get along with so many different people?  

-Also just a few extra scenes like Hibiki getting rightly pissed at Yamato and Ronaldo for trying to murder his friends. Or being suspicious of Miyako more in the Triangulum arc. Or actually freaking out about his friends getting written out of existence. 

But you guys probably don’t want to hear me ramble forever about that. Other than that fic I like the idea of the shenanigans of the Yamahibicor road trip. 

 A more dorky idea is that Administrator Hibiki uses a bit of his soul to turn Arcturus, Denebola, And Spica into creatures a bit more akin to Alcor. It ends up not works out quite right with them turning into rowdy kids, each with their own personality and Hibiki ends up being a very out of his depths surprise dad. (With Alcor helping as best he can)

[gothamcityneedsme]

hhhh how neat would it be if p5r were to be like smtiv apocalypse where ponytail girl is the nanashi to the original protagonist’s flynn and and the story kind of spins off from a canonical plot point and evolves into something completely different?

Honestly thats so much more interesting than the stupid theory people are having about her as a possible femMc.  I personally would really love if Atlus did that again, its part of why i like smtiv so much. I like how Smtiv and Smtiva stand on their own but also together, how they add to each other and interact. I love when Atlus does sequels because they really do make them like, actually important and interact with the previous game too. 

(Like smtiv/smtiva and p2is/p2ep, desu2 septemtrione/desu2 triangulum, etc).  I would be all about that though. 

I do doubt it tho, since she had a voice in the trailer and protagonists dont have those so early in most games. Itd be so cool though, it would be an option to fix a lot of what issues persona 5 has too since they could go in and alter the timeline from another perspective with more characters adding to the plot or w/e 

[alewyren]

smt!

so it turns out I already did this ask meme for mainline smt, so I’ll do it for Devil Survivor 1+2.

The first character I first fell in love with: 

Kazuya. While I have plenty of Deep™ thoughts and headcanons about his character nowadays, when I first booted up Overclocked I just thought he had a bitchin’ design and very much enjoyed playing as him. He’s still one of my favorites.

The character I never expected to love as much as I do now: 

Naoya. See this post for more detailed thoughts.

The character everyone else loves that I don’t: 

Yamato. He’s just so… tropey? I don’t hate him, and in fact I don’t really have any deep thoughts at all on him. He’s just kinda. There.

The character I love that everyone else hates: 

Midori. See this post for more detailed thoughts. 

The character I used to love but don’t any longer: 

Alcor. There’s… a bit of a complicated story behind this one. Basically he was the fave of the friend who got me into desu2, whom I unfortunately had very strong, very unrequited feelings for. As such I was strongly biased towards liking him from the start, even though his actual character is pretty much just a Kaworu ripoff. But I do quite like Kaworu, and he was cute, so that was fine by me. Even after 100%ing desu2 and the mediocrity of the plot and characters had gone from tolerable to grating, I still felt lukewarm towards Alcor? Then my relationship with that friend imploded, largely due to said unrequited feelings, and now he’s less a character to me so much as a reminder of that relationship, all my regrets, and how much I miss her. And also he’s just kinda boring.

The character I would totally smooch: 

I had a bit of a crush on Amane back when I played 1, but it’d be a bit weird now that I’m an adult, so I’m gonna have to say Otome. A quality MILF if there ever was one. Amane’s still probably the closest to my type personality-wise, though.

The character I’d want to be like: 

Uhhh. None of the above. They’re all disasters. Maybe Shoji since she’s a dork but like, emotionally stable and has a steady career.

The character I’d slap: 

Keita. FUCK Keita.

A pairing that I love: 

Kazuya/Naoya because God is dead and they killed him. I like them platonic as well, but I’m the trash queen of garbage island and how can I say no to the trashiest pairing of them all?

A pairing that I despise: 

Kazuya/Yuzu, because obligatory het with a player insert male protagonist irks the hell out of me. It feels like it exists more to make straight male gamers horny rather than as a relationship in its own right, and imo ends up detracting from Yuzu’s own character considerably.

[majuuorthrus]

(Spoilers below)

OK so I’m playing DeSu2 and in the Triangulum bit and like

I’m pretty sure Yamato and the Anguished One have been flirting with the protagonist for like, both arcs

Now Yamato has invited the protagonist on a sightseeing backpacking world tour, as far as I can tell, and the Anguished One has invited himself along too

I have the weirdest feeling that if this goes ahead they’re gonna have a threesome in Timor.

[howtodigatrench]

the desu2/blend s idea that plagued my mind this november

[chibikleo]

Not sure if that’s already been done but here are all the heartwarming encouragements the party members give Saiduq before the final battle <3

I wonder why Daichi doesn’t have one... Maybe he’s still upset about the whole “Yamato-in-a-RPG-Castle”-thing..