#dog breeding

[ask-a-vetblr]

Is it true that purebred dogs need more medical attention than mixed breeds? Why?

vet-and-wild here.

Not necessarily. We know that certain breeds are prone to certain diseases, and that some breeds are generally just not very healthy (i.e. brachycephalic breeds), and some are frequently overbred with no regard for health/temperament (i.e. Frenchies, doodles, GSDs...really anything popular). There's some breeds that when I see for their first puppy visit I really really push for them to get pet insurance on principle. But if someone walked in and said they had a mix of those particular breeds I would still say the same thing.

There's kind of a misunderstanding about crossbreeding and "hybrid vigor", and this assumption that crossbreeding automatically makes the resulting puppies healthier. While genetic diversity is a good thing for a population, breeding two unhealthy dogs just produces more unhealthy dogs, regardless of breed or how much they've been crossbred. I wouldn't say that I see more sick purebreds than mixed breeds, or that one particular group seems to outlive the others.

Except really old chihuahuas with no teeth and a raging heart murmur. They outlive everyone. (jk jk)

[darkwood-sleddog]

Asking for breeders to health test is not too much work. (Ensures dog is free of genetic health issues as much as possible)

Asking for breeders to breed temperamentally stable dogs is not too much work. (Ensures puppies will also be temperamentally stable as much as possible).

Asking for breeders to breed structurally healthy dogs is not too much work. (Ensures dog can function as a dog).

Asking for proof of correct temperament from an outside source like an evaluator, working/sporting test, or real world application such as actual work is not too much work (ensures dog can do what breeder claims they can do as much as possible).

These are like bottom of the barrel expectations for a “responsible” dog breeder. Asking for less is ridiculous. We are responsible for ensuring future dogs are healthy and stable and lowering such expectations below this point is like asking a bar on the floor if it can possibly go lower.

[wolf-tail]

people when you tell them a pitbull is just a dog and not a mindless toddler-eating killing machine or a harmless angel incapable of so much as scratching you

[grison-in-space]

hot take of the day: if working jobs for dogs no longer exist, breeding for temperament and function ideal for those non-existing jobs is a mug's game.

second hot take: sports aren't jobs. if the dog isn't doing a task that benefits the handler beyond the joy of simply interacting with the dog, a task that someone who doesn't care about dogs might acquire a dog to do? it's probably playing a sport.

third hot take: dogs have always changed as local cultures of dog keeping and values change over time. while the historical connection to days and modes of life that have now passed is an important aspect of human cultural connection to bygone eras, it is okay to change the temperament of dog breeds to better fit modern values and methods of keeping dogs.

[losech]

Not many hunters are willing to drop 2k+ on a pup out of dogs that don't hunt, the pup being a rare breed doesn't justify the price to them. "Hunting lines" doesn't mean shit if the dogs are not hunted regularly. "Warded off a bear on a hike" isn't the same as actually hunting that bear. "Bayed a (domestic) hog in a pen" isn't praise worthy either.

You aren't selling dogs to hunters because you don't hunt your dogs. If you want to be serious about preserving the breed as a hunting breed, put your boots on and get those dogs in the woods and on some game.

[troythecatfish]

[reasonsforhope]

“The state of New York passed a law Thursday prohibiting the sale of dogs, cats and rabbits in pet stores. The move is an attempt to halt the puppy-mill-to-pet-store pipeline and stop abusive breeders.

“Dogs, cats and rabbits across New York deserve loving homes and humane treatment,” New York Governor Kathy Hochul says in a statement. “I'm proud to sign this legislation, which will make meaningful steps to cut down on harsh treatment and protect the welfare of animals across the state.”

Puppy mills—or large-scale dog breeding facilities—are often unregulated. At these sites, the dogs’ welfare is compromised in favor of maximizing profits, per the Humane Society of the United States, but most puppy mills remain legal...

Animal rights activists have praised the new law, saying it will help diminish animal cruelty and encourage people to adopt some of the 6.3 million shelter animals in need of a home annually...

The new law, which goes into effect in 2024, will allow pet stores to rent out their space to shelters for adoption events. Under the law, customers may still buy animals directly from breeders, which proponents say will make them more aware of where their pets are coming from, writes Maysoon Khan for the Associated Press (AP).

“If a consumer went to a mill and saw the awful conditions, they wouldn’t buy these animals,” New York State Senator Michael Gianaris tells the AP. “Dealing with a breeder allows people to see where their dog comes from, and it cuts off the middlemen that serve as a way to wash off the awful activities that take place at the mill.”” -via Smithsonian Magazine, 12/16/22

[darkwood-sleddog]

it sure is something when purebred dog folk can't evaluate non purebred dogs structurally outside of a standard. this isn't rocket science yall and it's concerning that you cannot identify functional dog structures over various disciplines without the aid and comparison of a strict standard when you breed and show dogs. just my two cents (as a purebred dog person).

[fayeandknight]

First and foremost, while this post contains content about docking, I am firmly not interested in debating it. It is part of the standard for this breed in my country and I'm not going to tolerate knocking reputable breeders for adhering to said breed standard.

That said, I am potentially interested in getting into breeding and would like some input from knowledgeable folks.

Some up front info: I have experience with the breed and absolutely adore them. It is a docked breed and part of my interest in getting into breeding is because I want a undocked dog without sacrificing quality.

If I did pursue breeding it would only be under mentorship.

The medium length version of my plan would be to acquire a wonderful male puppy from an excellent breeder. Title him in agility, conformation, and some original breed purpose things. Do above and beyond health testing. Basically prove him to be an exemplary example of the breed. Throughout this I would also be developing a solid relationship with his breeder.

I would want his breeder to arrange the pairing for his breeding, first litter at minimum. I would want to be fully educated on why they decided on the pairing they do and everything that goes into that.

From that breeding I would like to keep a female. She would be docked per breed standard and I would prove her as I did my male. If, and only if, all these things played out this way would I then use her as my foundation bitch for my own program in which the puppies would be undocked.

My program would likely not produce dogs often. Only when I am looking for my next dog and know that I can find quality homes for all puppies. I would also look to my mentor for education on how to match puppies to homes that suit them and all that entails.

So my question to knowledgable folks is, does this sound like a good approach for getting into breeding? Would you be open to working with and essentially taking someone like me under your wing?

As much as I desire an undocked dog from this breed, I don't want to pursue that in an irresponsible or impulsive manner.

Much thanks for your words of experience and wisdom.

[gar-a-ash]

Breeding goals for 2024:

Producing a high quality sporting and working dog that is capable of being a pleasant companion on quiet days provided needs are met (Tassie is a med-high drive/low energy shepherd, expected sire was chosen for also being high drive/med energy and able to settle in the house)

Continuing the breed standard of producing a dog that is owner-oriented and aloof with strangers, though not unfriendly (Tassie is paranoid with strangers and asocial, very much a one-person dog, expected sire is selected for sociability to offset this. Tassie's pedigree has social dogs so I suspect that she's a one-off)

Not focusing on bite sports/protection; the goal is to produce a dog that is capable of doing more than just biting. The shepherd should be an all-around working dog capable of doing anything it's trained to do. (Tassie struggled with learning sports where independent thinking was necessary, though once she picked it up she's a rockstar at odor detection. Sire is a bite sport dog and titled well, chosen for good pedigree and environmental soundness. Pups will probably excel in bite sport avenues, though they should be stable enough to perform at anything)

Steering away from insane drive, part of producing a dog capable of living in the house. Also helps the goal of producing an all-around working dog, so the dog is capable of slowing down to learn new things without having an anxiety attack (Tassie struggled with this through adolescence but settled very nicely as an adult, sire is about the same)

Producing a dog that is environmentally sound and confident in new locations (Tassie has always been excellent, sire is said to have strong environmental soundness and has titled well. Puppy program planned to help pups with environmental confidence. Some adolescent reactivity is expected, both dogs had issues though have been successfully managed out of it. This is a known breed issue)

Producing a dog in good physical health (Need to finish Tassie's OFA's to confirm but pedigree has excellent rated hips/elbows throughout, sire is the same. Tassie is DM free, sire will carry. Chance for DM carries in the litter, waiting for a response back from a different stud dog just in case that would negate this but is chosen for same reasons above)

I have more thoughts on this but this is what I'm aiming for, potential for holding back a bitch from this litter to pair with future pup but I'm not sure if I want to raise two pups of similar age together so it would have to be a really amazing puppy. I CAN do it, I just don't know if I WANT to do it. But Tassie will most likely be three by the time this litter is born and I don't want to wait too long.

[airyairyaucontraire]

"I opened a Pandora's box and released a Frankenstein's monster," he says.

[losech]

In my experience, it’s been a bit difficult to find hunting dogs bred by breeders who actually health test and don’t just rely on “they’re vet checked” or “they work well into old age”. Are there WSL breeders who do OFA testing and such or is that just a compromise one has to make like it is for some other breeds?

I had the only dna and ofa tested litter in the country. Unfortunately I have no current breeding plans 🙃

I got Ember's breeder to start using Embark on his dogs, so that's something at least. But in general, people don't health test WSL. Finding kennels overseas who do it and will export is difficult as well.

[felid-thoughts]

Don't you hate it when you have an assessment due in 4 hours you should be finishing but you end up writing a fucking 5 page essay on the corrupt nature of kennel clubs and fanciers in regards to maintaining and expanding on breed standards that actively put animals at risk of harm and promote poor breeding practices in terms of exaggerating features, encouraging dishonesty or ignorance from sellers, as well as the mass-breeding of animals for profit in mill/farm operations (which are tied to kennel clubs and fanciers in case you didn't know).

[doginprogress]

Why isn't Azula a breeding prospect?

When I sought out and purchased Azula a little over five years ago I didn’t know I would fall this deep into Ibizans and decide I want to breed them. She was purchased as a pet/performance prospect on a contract that reflected that. By the time I realized just how nice of a dog she is and had the knowledge to understand what breeding would entail, I

1. Knew enough to know I was not financially or mentally ready to responsibly breed a dog and

2. No longer had the type of relationship with her breeder where I could negotiate changing her contract

Additionally, after four years of being intact, Azula never once came into heat, so it is possible she wouldn’t have been able to be bred. She’s now spayed and my favorite comment from my vet after the spay was “she had the longest uterus I’ve ever seen on a dog” 😂

Azula’s sister was bred twice (interestingly enough to one of Ponzi’s uncles for her second litter) and Azula’s brother may be used in the future as a stud dog. She also has several half siblings via her sire (who I love conformationally) and more possibly being born next year I think? So theoretically if I do want to incorporate her line in the future there are some possibilities there.