#don't use the violence against palestinians as an excuse to be antisemitic

[unsolicited-opinions]

I'd like to attempt to describe why I think we keep hearing such bizarre and biased commentary from US liberals/progressives on Israel. I'm going to go over some things that #jumblr already knows, but I want this to be accessible to anybody who is interested. I'm not trying to excuse anybody's views or comments - I'm tying to remind myself that while there's no shortage of antisemitism in these voices, there's more going on than just antisemitism.

First, I think it is important to note that these comments are coming mostly from younger folks. These folks want to be on the Right Side of History, and I love that impulse.

They want to believe that they would have protested the war in Vietnam. They want to believe that they would have marched with Martin Luther King Jr- and I love that impulse.

They have been sold a story that this is a similar instance where one side is unambiguously an aggressor and the other side is unambiguously a victim.

They believe this, I think, for a few reasons I can understand. One of these is Hamas' use of civilian shields.

Sinwar (Hamas leader), his predecessors, his allies, and his eventual successors all know they're fighting two wars simultaneously. One is the physical war against Israelis, the other is the PR war fought for the hearts and minds of decent human beings worldwide. By placing all military assets behind/underneath civilians, he ensures that every Hamas material/military loss is a PR victory. This continues to be incredibly effective, and it's not a mystery why. Even those of us who understand this tactic, even those of us who have seen it repeatedly are heartbroken to see the harm done to non-combatants. When people who don't understand this tactic see the same images and videos, they are understandably horrified and want it to stop. It looks to them like soldiers indiscriminately destroying civilian lives.

These optics are made starker by Israel's unquestionable material and military advantage. Young Americans see Israel as powerful, Hamas as weak, and want to root for the underdog, assuming that Underdog = Good Guy.

Racism in Netanyahu's government ensures that Israel loses this PR war

Israel, Israeli international media, and Israel's international allies are not effective at explaining this tactic and are not effective in expressing their shared horror. The efforts to make this case convincingly are rendered nearly impossible by the fact that Netanyahu's coalition government includes theocrats and racists with track records of dehumanizing Palestinians, Arabs, and Muslims. That's the government giving orders to the IDF. Can we really be surprised when folks in the west see a connection between anti-arab rhetoric and violence which harms Arabs?

Israel's failure to remove these people from government is a tragedy. There seems to be no shortage of Israelis who detest Netanyahu and who protested his attempts to subvert the judicary to erode minority rights and to make it harder to fight his corruption- but there are still too many Israelis voting for parties in his coalition. I say this relating to the pain that the Israelis I know feel about this. I'm similarly humiliated before the world as an American in that nearly half the US electorate is okay with Trump, a racist, a rapist, and a demented demagogue who takes great pleasure in smashing democratic norms and coarsening/corrupting political life. The Israelis I know feel similarly about Netanyahu.

If I feel like it, I may continue this later. I would like to talk about semantic drift and the misapprehensions around terms like colonialism, zionism, genocide, and ethnic cleansing.

Again, my goal here is to remind myself that despite the abundant antisemitism in the comments of many young Americans saying profoundly stupid things about Israel, they are motivated by more than just antisemitism, and that antisemitism is not their primary drive.

Understanding the roots of their views may help identify ways to help remedy and mitigate rising antisemitism.

[noperopesaredope]

I try my best to not get too political on my blog, especially in complicated and divisive situations like these, but I feel like people need a reminder:

You can support Palestine without being an antisemitic asshole

You can support Israel without being a racist dickhead

You can support either side without generalizing either group or saying that the other group should all die

[jewishvitya]

[This post was originally written in response to someone tagging me and claiming that a free Palestine would mean all Israeli Jews will be kicked out and where will I go, and how they can't understand why I'm so against Israel being our ethnostate. OP blocked me, so I'm reposting with a few edits, because I already wrote this and I might as well.]

Look. I understand your mentality. We're traumatized by a history of violence against us. We were shown that so many in the world want us dead, and so many others won't stop them. I get it. But I refuse to let myself silently become the face of similar oppression for other people.

Israel benefits from antisemitism and maintains myths that got Jewish people killed in the past, like double loyalty. It weaponizes it for propaganda reasons. It's supported by antisemitic Christian zionist organizations with terrifying motivations. It started out with violence not only against Palestinians but against Jews too. Israel isn't motivated by our safety, it abuses that idea. It manipulates and weaponizes our trauma to make us feel justified in causing so much suffering to innocent people.

You're right that I'll have nowhere to go if I'm kicked out of here. This is where I was born. My parents come from other countries that I won't feel safe in. But all of this is hypothetical. The ethnic cleansing and genocide of Palestinians is not hypothetical, it's REALITY. It's happening RIGHT NOW. And I don't understand how, as a Jewish person who knows what this kind of suffering and loss of life means, you seem unable to prioritize that. I tell you I'm witnessing a genocide happening right next to me and you keep telling me "but what if they hurt you instead."

The assumption that Palestinians will pull some sort of reverse ethnic cleansing against us is racist. This assumption is the reason Israel feels comfortable calling the carpet bombing of a civilian population "self defense." Killing them based on a this is not self defense, it's a racially motivated crime against humanity.

And I'm calling it an assumption because I'm not willing to pull from the Hamas charter that they've since replaced. Hamas isn't Palestinians. The only reason they became this powerful is Israeli funding, and Israeli violence giving Hamas free PR as the only ones who will stand up to the state that will keep them trapped and dying.

We control every aspect of their lives. Israel created a place that breeds radicalization. No group of people, living under the conditions forced on Palestinians, would be peaceful. They would fight back. Because peaceful attempts to have the human rights that Israel denies them got nothing. We stomped on every single one. We blocked all other routes and left them with only violence, which Israeli politicians have been using as an excuse for over 15 years to make a show of force with military campaigns whenever they wanted a boost in popularity. We created living conditions with such low life expectancy that half of the population is children because so few adults survive. They don't deserve this. No one deserves this.

Palestine was a land with people living in it. One plot of land can create multiple groups of people, especially when we've been separated for 2000 years. Our connection to this land does not cancel out theirs. Removing them to create our own country could never be right. It's not an argument saying that our connection to Israel gives us the right to move here to live ALONGSIDE Palestinians. That's not what we wanted. We wanted a country that enforces Jewish majority and legally prioritizes Jews. You're justifying this when I repeatedly state that the only way for it to exist is through ethnic cleansing and genocide. There's no way to make this concept into a reality without killing, displacing, and oppressing whoever's left in various different ways, from apartheid to other kinds of discrimination.

I'm not against safety for us. I want to be safe. I want my children to grow in a safe world where we can be openly and joyfully Jewish. I'm not willing to pay for that with the lives and freedoms of other people.

So I will be loud about this: Palestinians deserve to be free in every part of their homeland, even if it's our ancestral homeland too.

If safety for us means we're the ones committing the genocide, maybe we should rethink what safety looks like.

I'm terrified for the lives of millions of people in Gaza. Right now, all I can think about is this, and it baffles me to see people so willing to transfer the horrors of our history to other people.

I had a lovely conversation in DMs in response to the first post, about how zionism encourages us to isolate rather than build bridges in the places where we live all over the world. We can't ignore the way antisemitism saturates culture, but we should also remember the places where Jewish communities thrived for centuries, the places where our neighbors protected us. We're hated, and we're loved. Each form of oppression is unique, so no other group experiences what Jewish people do exactly, but we're not alone. We have a long and rich history of solidarity with other marginalized communities and involvement in liberation movements. We're actively working to make the world safer, and we have people fighting with us. I'm just participating in this fight where I am. The struggle for liberation is a human struggle. You can't use the trauma of antisemitism to silence me about other kinds of bigotry.

Never again. To ANYONE.

[anexperimentallife]

The Gaza genocide is going exactly according to the US Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian agenda, with which they hope to wipe out all Jews and Muslims

To anyone raised in the US Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian Dominionist movement in the US, the horror and inhumanity, the genocide Israel is engaged in against Palestinians right now is not a surprise. We all KNEW this was coming, and those of us who got out of the movement we were raised in have been trying to raise the alarm for decades, mostly to either deaf ears, or accusation of antisemitism.

(Because, they would say, "if you don't support Zionism, and stand behind everything Israel does, you must hate all Jews!" Ignoring that many Jews all over the world--yes, including many Israeli Jews--do not support Israel's foreign policy.)

Because everything in the orbit of Israel is going exactly to the Evangelical Fundamentalist Christian Doomsday plan--a plan that has been OPENLY talked about in Fundie circles since I was a little kid being indoctrinated into it.

In case you're not familiar, let me break down the Fundie thinking here:

Their support of Israel and embrace of Zionism is based around their beliefs that:

a) the return of Jews to Israel, and then Israel/all "unconverted" Jews being completely wiped out in an apocalyptic war, is essential to Jesus' return.

b) but that any nation that DIRECTLY opposes Israel will fall even if they defeat Israel. So that in order to fulfill prophecy, they must

c) set someone ELSE up to wipe out Israel/the Jews.

(To go into more detail: They believe that "the Jews were God's original chosen people until Christians took their place in God's favor when the Jews denied Jesus." But that God is still attached to his former faves and will punish anyone who wipes them out--thus the entire fundie idea is to get someone ELSE to do it, then serve as "the instrument of God's vengeance" by genociding the genociders.)

So they support Israel's increasing violence intentionally to create greater and greater conflict and turn more of Israel's neighbor states against them, meanwhile fostering the idea that with the power of the US backing them, they cannot fail.

And here's their next planned phase--maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but eventually

Once things reach a tipping point, the Fundies (currently the single most powerful force in US politics, thanks to ANOTHER multi-generational plan openly talked about in Fundie circles, which was specifically designed to put Fundies amd their allies in powerful positions) will force the US to pull support from Israel so that its neighbors can destroy it, then use that destruction as a pretext for their own genocide against remaining Muslim/Arab (there is little distinction between the two in their minds) peoples.

Christian Fundamentalist support of Zionism has always been about the elimination of both Jews and Muslims, and bringing about a Christian/Capitalist (aka fascist) world.

They emphasize that they LOVE Jews, and maybe don't even entirely HATE the "evil Muslims," but that this is "God's will," and that they have no choice but to obey. They'll even shed crocodile tears about how sad all this is, but believe me--they are CELEBRATING inside. They are OVERJOYED, because they think this will bring about the Rapture, the end of the world, the Thousand Year Reign, and all the other crap in their shitty Doomsday prophecy.

(This is also their excuse for every other group they are trying to destroy. "Oh, I personally have nothing against the gays, but I have to follow God's will. Plus our children need to be protected from their recruitment efforts." During slavery, then segregation, Black folks were often said to have "the mark of Ham, meaning God said they were DESTINED to be slaves because of Ham's sin. Oh, WE'RE not saying it; GOD is!" See also: child marriage, and lots of other talking points.)

Don't believe me? Ask around on the EXvangelical tags. Listen in at some of the more conservative churches in your area. There are a lot of us who were raised being brainwashed with these ideas and had to deprogram ourselves.

[applesauce42069]

Is it insensitive to wish my Jewish friends both online and in person happy Hanukkah while supporting Palestine? I saw your post saying "If you want to wish Jews a happy Hanukkah but you don’t believe that Jews have a right to exist in their historical, ethnic, and religious ancestral homeland, then don’t. " And wondered immediately how to interact in general with the Jewish community at this time as I'm pro Palestine but also genuinely want Jewish ppl to have a good holiday. Can I say happy Hanukkah in a post and reblog menorahs I find pretty while also reblogging about Palestine being under genocide and supporting freedom? I'm neither Jewish or Palestinian so I'd rly like your opinion on this since your post struck me! X

Supporting Palestine does not contradict supporting Jews. Many Jews, like myself, are supporters of a Free Palestine.

However, antisemitism does in fact contradict supporting Jews (for obvious reasons) so my questions to you are: do you take active steps to avoid antisemitism in your activism? are you aware of common antisemitic tropes and do you steer clear of them? do you excuse violence against Jews? have you taken steps to understand the jewish people and their history/culture, so that you do not participate in their distortion? do you make sure not to spread misinformation that endangers jews in diaspora and in israel? do you deny jewish people self-determination? do you deny jewish people rights and freedoms that you support for others?

In short, Jews do not want empty allyship. We feel like we have been largely abandoned by gentiles and we deal with antisemitism everyday. Having people wish us a Happy Hanukkah while contributing to said antisemitism is just a punch in the face. So, if you can't materially support Jews while we face rising antisemitism, demonization, distortion of our history, calls for our genocide, etc. then we just don't want to hear it.

[newnitz]

I saw your whole post about "Dominating the indomitable" and like no, it's that Jewish people act like they are literally the only group who have ever been oppressed, and how all other forms of oppression are actually antisemitism, and how as a result of this Jewish people can never ever perpetuate oppression against other groups. Horrible things have happened to Jewish people in the past therefore any criticism of the actions of Jewish people now is antisemitic, and even TALKING ABOUT the groups who were affected on a smaller scale during The Holocaust is antisemitic, actually. Jewish people, particularly in online spaces, demand solidarity with other minority groups but *insist* that your problems are the only ones that matter. And yet - False accusations of Antisemitism are constantly deployed en-masse, particularly with regard to Israel, to justify doing heinous fucking shit and to treat genocide as though it's in some way complicated. I'm from the UK, and for twelve years we had upper class asshole politicians saying every racist thing you could imagine about Muslims and literally nothing came of it. Then we had a left wing candidate for Prime Minister who criticised Israel ONCE, and the accusations of Antisemitism that followed instantly killed his career. While Antisemitism is real and is a problem a lot of Jewish people are perfectly happy to allow the Right Wing grifters who perpetrate Antisemitism to weaponise it in their name against people they don't like. You deny that you have ANY privelige relative to other religious minority groups and yet accusations of Antisemitism are the only kind that seem to be consistently taken seriously, even when they're overtly bullshit. But it's also the fact that as minority religious groups in the west go a LOT of Jewish people are rich white people, and the Jewish community as a whole refuses to in any way acknowledge the privelige that comes with that because "I'm not white I'm Jewish" as though you can't be both. Like literally right now, a nation of Jewish people are slaughtering a nation of Muslims on the grounds that being Jewish just makes them inherently entitled to the land those Muslims are on. We're seeing Jewish people commit horrific acts of violence and dehumanisation against the people of Palestine on the basis of their religion - we're seeing Israelis posing with dead or dying Palestinians, laughing at them as they bleed out in the street. But everyone in the west is willing to treat the situation as complicated specifically because the Israelis are Jewish and the Palestinians are Muslim - and yet people like you still feel comfortable acting as though Jewish people could NEVER possibly commit imperialism, could NEVER do anything wrong, could NEVER fall into the same sort of colonialist, bigoted attitudes as other groups, because unlike those other groups you simply know better. And Jewish people are STILL acting like they're the ones most affected by what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians, like this is a bigger problem for some white American jewish person than the people actually LIVING in Palestine right now, because a few people are using the situation as an excuse to be Antisemitic.

So in this anon we have, in order of appearance:

"Jews talk about their oppression too much"

"Jews weaponize antisemitism"

Holocaust universalization

Holocaust inversion

"But whatabout the antisemitism on the right???"

"Jews are just a religion"

"Jews are white"

"Chosen people(derogatory)"

And you don't think there's a cultural antisemitism problem? Worst of all, you don't think you're part of the problem? You just exemplified it with this word vomit made of the copium you take as a culture to justify your millennia-long attempt to exterminate us. Because this shit did NOT begin with the Holocaust. It began with us being stolen from our land, with almost a million of our ancestors' brothers and sisters genocided in the attempt, brought to Europe as Roman slaves, then running from place to place to flee the attempts to finish us off, all the while your holy wars with the Muslims saw our tiny remaining population massacred and dispossessed under most management, with our ancestors funding their return to their own cities, with what little money they could scrounge up between their own escapes and expulsions, because no one else would.

Now, to deconstruct your rancid takes:

"Jewish people act like they are literally the only group who have ever been oppressed, and how all other forms of oppression are actually antisemitism" - That is factually, demonstratively false. Jews as a whole do not claim anti-Black racism or the genocides perpetuated against the indigenous people of Turtle Island are because of antisemitism, because while those two occurred concurrently neither fueled the other. They existed independently. The Holocaust was perpetuated primarily against Jews and Roma. No other group lost >50% of their population under that. Jews were more loudly hated because we greatly outnumbered and still greatly outnumber Roma. There was ethnic cleansing of Poles in some places but no concentrated effort of extermination, as those who cooperated with the genocides of Jews and Roma were safe. You cannot genocide an identity outside an ethnic group or race(which in most cases is a derivative of an ethnic group), but the crimes committed against queer people and political rivals were a much lower priority than the extermination of all Jews and Roma. The Holocaust IS about us and to say otherwise is both antisemitic and anti-Romani.

"how as a result of this Jewish people can never ever perpetuate oppression against other groups." - That is a fringe opinion, and there are massive intracommunity discussions about how we as a whole can and should do better towards other marginalized people, show solidarity unconditionally and so on. It's just not visible to you because the only time you engage with our community is as a threat to our existence.

"Jewish people, particularly in online spaces, demand solidarity with other minority groups but *insist* that your problems are the only ones that matter." Again you are factually incorrect. Jews have been overrepresented in the Civil Rights movement and have been part of the left for centuries at this point. We demand "solidarity" in not perpetuating antisemitic stereotypes, i.e not being actively racist against us so that we can feel safe backing them up as they combat racism against them, which should be the bare minimum. And we've been failed repeatedly as the left and right take on the same flavor of antisemitism.

"False accusations of Antisemitism are constantly deployed en-masse," Who are YOU to say which accusations are false? Which other minority group is assumed to lie about racism until it's proven beyond any shadow of the most unreasonable doubt to be telling the truth?

"particularly with regard to Israel, to justify doing heinous fucking shit and to treat genocide as though it's in some way complicated." There is no genocide. Killing tens of thousands of combatants and civilians in a 1:1 ratio out of a population of 2 million is not a genocide, it's a war. And considering the hellish medium of urban warfare, it's an exceptionally well-managed one. Most importantly, it's a war Israel has been actively avoiding for 17 years until the 7th of October.

"Then we had a left wing candidate for Prime Minister who criticised Israel ONCE" Jeremy Corbyn did more than that. He didn't "criticize Israel" he buddied up with Hezbollah ffs

"While Antisemitism is real and is a problem a lot of Jewish people are perfectly happy to allow the Right Wing grifters who perpetrate Antisemitism to weaponise it in their name against people they don't like." And you're pretending these grifters aren't called out? It's called a "broken clock", and every accusation of antisemitism needs to be investigated. Right now you're excusing your own leftist antisemitism with whataboutism.

"You deny that you have ANY privelige relative to other religious minority groups" - We are not just a religious minority. Jews are an ethnoreligious minority, with most Jews coming from at least one Jewish parent. Outside the US and countries with very small Jewish populations, most Jews come from two Jewish parents, and before the 60s it was almost all Jews. Intermarriage in the US only began with the state-led push towards assimilation following the end of WWII.

"and yet accusations of Antisemitism are the only kind that seem to be consistently taken seriously" Really? Because I haven't seen them being taken seriously by leftists.

"a LOT of Jewish people are rich white people" Whiteness is not conditional. Whiteness does not depend on passing yourself off as something else. Whiteness protects you from having your name, facial features or accent be a reason for lynching, being refused job offers or interrogated by security forces for going about your everyday life. Rich people of many other ethnicities are privileged in comparison to the rest of their community, and that doesn't make them "white". And do you even know how many Jews are rich and white-passing? Especially in countries where Jews didn't assimilate, didn't intermarry?

"Like literally right now, a nation of Jewish people are slaughtering a nation of Muslims on the grounds that being Jewish just makes them inherently entitled to the land those Muslims are on." Again factually false. Israel is counter-attacking the terrorist organization who invaded its territory, raped and murdered men women and children and took hundreds of hostages, and since said terrorist org hides among civilians civilians get killed in the crossfire. It's about religion from Hamas' side, which is what I referred to in the post. There's no "belief that we're inherently entitled", there's a fuckton of archeological evidence showing that we've been living in that land for thousands of years and we want the self-determination that was stolen from us, and Muslims, with their need to dominate the entire Middle East, don't vibe with that.

[jewish-sideblog]

Boozhoo, I'm an indigenous American who loves the phrase "decolonization is not a metaphor" as an easy way to refer to laws and social changes to return sovereignty to indigenous peoples, but it's getting harder and harder to see that phrase (and other things relating to decolonization) be weaponized against Jewish people.

I've seen a lot of antisemitic nonsense from non-Native people, twisting around decolonization efforts in the Americas to justify violence against Jewish and Israeli people, but I've also seen it coming from other Native people who should KNOW better than to be spreading hateful lies like that. Seeing other Natives spread racist and antisemitic denials of Jewish connection to the Levant and Jerusalem especially, while pushing race science that hurts ALL indigenous people, is terrifying.

I believe in Palestinian liberation and the end of the violence in Gaza. I also believe that Jewish people deserve to live on their ancestral homeland safely if they so choose and that they should be able to live in the rest of the world without the threat of antisemitic violence. These things are not mutually exclusive.

I hope you have a good day.

Shalom! Thank you for sending an ask that I'm happy to receive. Those don't come in often!

It's difficult to see people of any indigeneity-- Palestinian, Jewish, Anishinaabe, hell, even Ukrainian-- acting like we don't all share the same struggle against colonialism, coloniality, and imperialism. Our struggles are one struggle because of our differences, not despite them, because our struggle is against those who would force us to accept assimilation and homogeneity. The fact that some of us can't see that? It's the result of colonial tactics.

One of the things that drove me to embrace Critical Theory and study sociology, instead of just "being a leftist", was that every year I saw people say:

"Fuck Christopher Columbus! Happy Indigenous People's Day!"

And the order of those phrases means everything to me. It's so clear that many people value the destruction of what they hate before they value the protection of those they purport to respect. You see this again with people who say "Fuck Nazis!" but never follow up with "Protect Jews". For many, it's not actually ever been about decolonization. It's simply been an excuse to justify violence against the forms of colonialism that negatively affect them.

I wish you peace and safety, חבר. In both the dark times of today and the dark times of the future. Your people and mine have both survived what was thought to be the impossible. Both of our people will live to see the future, despite whatever odds we may encounter.

[aidenlydia]

Hey, just letting you know Jack Black isn't a Zionist, Zionism is the belief of Jewish self determination in a Jewish state. Unless he's said anything specifically about that, saying no civilians should be hurt and that Jewish people are afraid right now (true, antisemitic hate crimes have sharply risen) isn't Zionism, and equating that too Zionism is antisemitic and part of the justification for the harassment Jewish people are facing right now even if they aren't talking about what's going on.

It's good to talk about what's going on, but a lot of stuff is drifting hard into antisemitic dogwhistles and conspiracies and Jack Black should definitely be called out for his support of Autism Speaks, but not for saying Jewish people don't deserve hate and expressing concerns about all the civilians and the hostages. It might be helpful to talk to some Jewish folks about it too, even if you don't agree with them.

Jack Black is using the language of Zionists and that is worth criticizing.

1. Calls a literal GENOCIDE “nuanced and hard to understand” which is used by Zionists across the world (including my own country, which supplies Israel with tank ammunition) as an excuse to not call for a ceasefire.

2. Only talks about the images of kidnapped Israelis and attacks by Hamas, not a peep about the *well documented genocide* (doesn’t even use the word).

3. Calls Hamas terrorists - completely ignoring the 75 year long occupation, displacement, imprisonment and murder of the Palestinian people. (It’s ok when white people fight back against oppressors, but not when it’s Arabs)

4. Talks about the rise in antisemitism, but not the continued unaddressed and actively deadly Islamophobia.

These type of posts never focus on the deaths of the Palestinians and heavily criticize Hamas instead of Israel, despite Israel being the aggressor for decades. Yes, rising antisemitism is absolutely a problem and yes it’s the Israeli government that is to blame, not Jewish people. We know that. However that’s no excuse to be this incredibly one-sided and tone-deaf. Not when the Palestinians have been facing ethnical cleansing by an apartheid regime and are now on the brink of obliteration by both starvation and unimaginable amounts of violence, all while the world watches and supports it. Jewish people and Israelis aren’t the only victims here. Ignoring that is simply unacceptable. Jack Black is downplaying Palestinian suffering.

And I know what Jewish people think about this "war". I know Jewish people see this and call it an inexcusable genocide - that Israel started this long before October 7. You know how I know? Because they come to protests and make their stances clear. They aren’t afraid to speak up. This isn’t a Jew vs Muslim war, it never was.

[certifiedlibraryposts]

re the palestinian bird thing: different anon here, idk what they meant but it’s worth noting that, in addition to political fuckery, that the campaign to remove the word “palestine” from the bird's name might have partially been an attempt to correct a bit of historical revisionism. the only reason that region of the world is commonly known as palestine today in the first place is because the roman empire renamed the area to “syria palaestina” after the roman-jewish wars. they had previously allowed the province to be called judea/judaea, as in jews and the jewish kingdoms that existed there before being conquered. and it wasn't until much later that the arabs now known as palestinians came to be. (disclaimer: I don't speak hebrew and can't be bothered to track down hebrew articles from a decade ago to translate by hand to fact check how much this played into the bird thing but it is a reasonable possibility and an understandable one, as jewish heritage has been so often destroyed and erased. regardless, the palestinian response to make the bird a symbol is equally understandable.) relatedly, be careful about the phrase “from the river to the sea”, because while it's sometimes about palestinian liberation, it's also often used as a dogwhistle that means “kill all jews in the levant”; and the dogwhistle version has become increasingly common as of late. look into the organization called standing together for antisemitism-free activism and jewish/palestinian solidarity.

I see what you mean, the history you mentioned seems to check out and it's unquestionably been a tumultuous part of the world that's been given a lot of different names over time. However I don't really feel comfortable in agreeing it was combating revisionism because it happened during what I understand to be a violent occupation. Without a source or truly knowing the intentions it's just kind of speculation.

"From the river to the sea" was used in that post in the context of Palestinian freedom and peace. Related to that point, I also received another ask concerned with my use of the word "zionist" as it has historically described a very wide range of ideas, and has also been used as an antisemitic dogwhistle. That was not my intent, it's the word I was most familiar with to get across my point that I don't support violence against or the erasure of Palestinian culture. Those using violence and calls for peace to excuse antisemitism are despicable. One can and should be an ally of both Palestinians and Jewish people.

I looked up Standing Together, I can certainly get behind their message of peace and cooperation, and people in Israel who are working to end the genocide deserve so much respect and admiration. It seems like reception to the movement has been mostly positive, but I feel it'd be irresponsible not to mention that the PACBI wing of the BDS movement has taken issue with it in the past week. I don't feel qualified to take a definitive stance either way, especially as I also can't read Hebrew or Arabic to get more direct contex. I encourage anyone interested to learn more and come to your own conclusions.

My overall point is that I do not support the genocide the Israeli miltary is enacting on the Palestinian people. I want to share more posts about Palestinian culture, art, and joy in a time where there is effort being made to erase it.

Finally, while I do my best to make sure what goes on this blog is accurate, I just wanna make it clear that I'm neither an expert at research, nor am I able to be a definitive resource for this topic (or frankly most things).

[batboyblog]

Hi I am Jordanian and wanted to say thanks for sharing news of backlash the Jewish community has faced for the actions of Israeli government/IDF. It is not fair that you guys are getting that punishment especially when it was never a Muslim vs Jew issue, rather a conflict of supremacy and control and money. I don’t know if you support the Palestinian cause but I will try to support my Jewish brethren when they are in need. TY

First I'd like to say, antisemitism existed long before Israel.

The events of October the 7th has gotten me thinking about the Kishinev pogrom of 1903, if you're not Jewish it's likely you've never heard of it. Pogrom is a Russian word, for mob violence against Jews, they did it so much in Russia they needed to come up with a special word for it, before the Nazis, Russians were the nightmare of the Jews, and those 19th century Jews could not have imagined worse was waiting for them from the West. Any ways today Kishinev is called Chișinău, its the capital of the tiny country of Moldova, but in 1903 it was the edge of the Russian Empire. Starting on Easter Sunday and lasting for 3 days while Russian police and soldiers looked on mobs hunted the local Jews like animals, beat and killed any man they found, raped as many women as they could.

I've been thinking about Kishinev, because it represents a break, you want to know when Zionism got really serious? it was with the blood in the streets of Kishinev, the idea that life in Russia was no longer viable for the Jews that lived there and they had to leave and go any where, its also the point American Jewry really got organized.

I'm also reminded of the Farhud, in Iraq in 1941, before Israel about 1/3rd of the population of Baghdad was Jewish. In June 1941 a violent riot against the Jews broke out. We'll never know how many people died, maybe more than a 1,000. The violence was unspeakable, and like Kishinev for the Jews of the Middle East it was the break point, they could no long safely live in the countries they had lived in for over 2,000 years.

any ways, my point is I think antisemitism is maybe the world's oldest hate and people are using Israel as an excuse to unleash it, they've used other excuses in the past, may use other excuses in the future.

I would agree it's not a Muslim Vs Jewish thing, much of the violence and threats are happening in non-Muslim countries and coming from non-Muslims indeed atheists. Hate of the Jews is not religious (well sometimes it is, I got called a Christ Killer just yesterday) but an ethnic hate.

"a conflict of supremacy and control and money" ah yes, Jews, Money etc I don't think I need to explain this to most people. Just leave it to say your "support" is kind if misguided, if you believe any group of Jews are money grubbing trying to control the world or have ever said the phrase "Jewish supremacy" well all thats pretty antisemitic

As for the Palestinians, I wish them what I've always wished them, good health, for the Palestinians of Israel I want greater integration and their fair share of the resources of their country, for the Palestinians of Gaza I want them free of a terrorist organization that robs them, beats them, suppresses them, and for the West Bank and Gaza a state of their very own.

[screamingfromuz]

weird how you reblog posts saying Israel was founded on genocide while also reblogging posts saying the IDF has some measure of honor. like did you see the video of how they shot an Israeli citizen thinking he was Palestinian? Yuval Doron Castleman wa shis name, and the video is not hard to find. the had his hands up in the air, and he was shot multiple times. this happened in the past 24 hours. was there a specific point where the state of Israel became good?

you talk about Jewish people feeling unsafe around anti-Israel talk, but do you ever wonder if people of color feel unsafe around you, and your excusing of ceuel and dehumanizing police forces?

you are very funny to me, you kind of people little anon. So full of yourself yet cannot comprehend complex concepts of grey morality.

I don't fully agree with everything I reblog, I reblog things I believe are important to talk about.

The founding of Israel has several faces that should be acknowledged. It was both a victory to an indigenous land back movement and offered a desperately needed sanctuary for hundred of thousands that would flee, and horrible disaster to another indigenous group. This does not contradict. For peace to exists we must acknowledge the co existence of those narratives. Horrible things were done in 1947-1949, by everyone involved (Britian, Israel, Palestinians, Jordan, Egypt, Syrian, Lebanon), and ignoring or diminishing it is foolish. On the other side, blowing it up is just as stupid and destructive.

using the correct term is important, as using the wrong terms might leads fools such as yourself to misunderstand the problem, and worsen the actual problem by "trying to help".

the IDF takes extreme measures to be careful with civilian life while simultaneously being careless with it. Again, both things are true as the same time.

Me saying that I do not consider the actions in Gaza genocide, does not mean I agree with all of them. as explained in this post (and it various reblogs), the use of the word "Genocide" is done as a way to shut down conversations and vilify Israel. The things that are happening are horrific and I hate it, I mourn every death. But as I refuse to call this a genocide, any criticism I will have will be either dismissed or twisted and used against me. For that reason, I limit my criticism to Israeli circle and the real world.

I saw the video, of course I did. And what do you want me to say? that it is horrific? That I knew that something like this was gonna happen at some point? The soldiers fucked up, they will be trialed for that. This are problems that stem from militarized society that I fight against.

Israel is a state. It is not bad or good in your simplistic moral scale, like any other country on the planet. But Israel is my home, and I would not abandon if even if it is fucked up in here. There have been 9 months of protests before the war, people are still protesting and sighing petitions and working to build a better future here, for all of us. just like the people in Poland and in Hungary, we want a better country. The point is that you don't care, you don't want Israel to exist. You are calling or erasing Israel from the map without understanding the devastating consequences of such action. You don't care about our effort and our criticism unless you can twist if to the support of the eradication of Israel.

what you fail to understand, is how much your "anti-Israel" talk is toxic, destructive and full of antisemitism. Of course we feel unsafe! you are not criticizing Israel, you are calling for it's destruction and to the horrible consequences to the Jewish people that will follow.

I have talked about this, many Jewish and Israeli talked about it, but the amount of hate a vitriol your kind spew, the silencing methods you employ does not leave a place to our criticism. Nuanced opinions of the systems of violence, the militarization of the Israeli society, about the ties between culture and crime, of neglect, those are swept aside as they do not satisfy your "Israel bad" criteria.

Understanding the actions taken and explaining them is not endorsing or supporting said actions. it's called having an understanding.

I understand that this ask is a result of your underdeveloped moral compass, and truly hope you would be able to develop a healthy one little anon.

You don't know me, you see fractions of me through a screen, pieces of opinions I share on this wretched hell hole in hope of a good constructive criticism, in hope that by speaking out people will feel less alone.

for summery anon, life is more complex then your little fanfiction version of it. I hope you grow out of this mindset.

[i-cant-sing]

I just want to take a moment as someone from Israel-in Israel. A woman in Israel.

I do not agree with what my country is doing. I do not agree with the violence and atrocities we commit. But just like Americans, we can be against a war our country is fighting.

Yes, if Israel stops this war, the war is over. It is not equal.

But we cannot ignore what Palestine has done, also. I have lost family. Many people I know have lost family. I am fortunate in that I was not ever taken, I am far from the border, but I know someone who lost a sister. When her body was recovered, she had been raped. This happens on both sides, as women are seen as property of the state. But it does not excuse it. There is no excuse in raping women. Not even for freedom, as how can you achieve freedom through violating women?

I understand it muddies waters to say that there is violence on both sides. There are atrocities on both sides. We like to pretend it is one sided as it makes it easier. But it isn't. You can be the country in the right and still commit war crimes.

I understand if my words are seen as unwelcome here. But I wished to see it acknowledged, the pain that has been brought, not always justly. War is simple, but it is also complex. Trauma goes back generations, it grows roots and takes hold. The fear of the Israeli people for another holocaust is perhaps not well founded, but it is real in our minds. It will always be. The hatred we faced for something not of our doing by Palestinians was real. Our response does not become justified, an overreaction is not justified. But it was real. Their hatred for their land being taken was real-but their reaction to us was not justified. Not in the beginning.

I suppose i am trying to point out the suffering we face as a reminder that we are not our country. I do not enjoy seeing myself and my family and friends vilified in media because of where we live-where we were uprooted to because our family was murdered and our homes taken from us. But I understand our government does evil, now. But we are not our government. Even if we wished to speak up for Palestine, we would be branded terrorists. The things done to innocents is never justified, on either side.

This isn't a war because for a war, both countries should be able to have somewhat similar resources to defend themselves. It's a fucking massacre, a genocide, a cold blooded murder.

Look at Israel's military budget, that gets US aid. Now compare it with Palestine.

Your suffering, the death of your loved ones, your pain, its not invalidated, but it certainly will never compare to the pain of Palestinians.

I understand that this is Israel's government that's behind all this, but you guys are the ones who voted for them. So you should come out and begin protesting for Palestine, even at the cost of being labelled as "antisemitic" or "hamas sympathiser". If Holocaust survivors were to be here, do you think they'd stay silent? People of Israel chose and voted their government officials who now don't even consider Palestinians as humans, so... sorry to say honey, but yall are also responsible for this genocide.

Water, food, fuel, electricity, even donations and trucks carrying MEDICAL supplies have been cut off or prevented from reaching Palestinians. Is that happening in Israel rn? Didn't McDonald's just promise to supply food to the Israle armed forces??

Now, anon, imagine this-

Your country is being bombed, what for? You're not even sure exactly at this point. You've been kicked out of your home, which was then bombarded. your dad's business? All gone, his money, tears sweat, were all for naught. You've been shifted to a refugee camp, and you've been moving from one camp to another for many years because you're constantly hearing airstrikes. You've lost many of your siblings, family, friends. Every night that you go to sleep, with your mother making sure that all of remaining family members are sleeping together, so that in case something happens, you're all dead and no one has to live in pain to mourn for others. Your entire childhood is gone now because you've witnessed such horrible conditions, death is almost always a certainty, and you're struggling for basic necessities such as drinking water, food, etc. Almost all of your family is dead, you were one of the "lucky" ones who didn't die under a pile of rubble. You're grown up now, and you're thinking of leaving this hell by educating yourself and applying to a university outside of Palestine but oh oh! Well, the passing rate is incredibly low, less than 1% of students pass a test which is graded by an occupying force. The doctor who onec treated you is now breaking down becase she lost her entore family in the airstrike while she was helping victims of the same airstrikes, but she doesnt have time to mourn them or wven bury them because the hospital is understaffed nd theres way too many trauma patients in the triage that need her. Oh and look, your best friend was just shot in the back of the head. What for? He was just walking down the street. And the little kid you saw yesterday? Well he was body slammed to the ground by the occupying force's police and taken into custody where he was forced to confess to a crime he never committed, WAS TRAUMATISED AND TORTURED and was never even given a fair trial before he was locked up for more than 2 decades, after which this kid, now an adult has developed schizophrenia. As for you, you thank your lucky stars because you passed your test somehow but oh no. You're suddenly being taken into custody by the occupying force for "suspicious activity and links to a terrorist organisation".

Shall I go on?

[hellsbellschime]

I need to say this and you're really only one of my mutuals who I feel kinda safe saying this to, but as a pro Palestine supporter I'm horrified by the way some Pro Palestine supporters (not on here) approach the issue of sexual assault on October 7th which I've been forced to accept happened. From these people I get the undeniable sense that they actually think that if they address it, even show sympathy for any victims, they're endorsing Israel or their IOF or the lives of Palestinian people that were tragically lost in the months after October 7th which is just wild to me. Even if no sexual assault occurred on October 7th it's the way these people were so ready to believe that it didn't because they thought it would invalidate the Palestianian cause when the Palestianian cause is (tm) is about justice, and no context will ever justify or excuse sexual violence. These two issues should be able to co exist, and somehow it fucking doesn't for these people!

I just have immense sympathy for Jewish people particularly women who are feeling alienated/betrayed thanks to this whole matter because I hear genuine nonsense like "Oh you're weaponing SA" if you want to acknowledge what occurred on October 7th. It bothers me to put it lightly that some people are willing to take what was more than likely the worst thing that happened to these people and just basically not hold the perpetrators accountable because these people belong to a cause they support.... that's really fucking dangerous!

Its even more unforgivable when some victims involved were apparently minors and still these people are silent because their too much of a coward to speak about it because they don't see Israelis as human. You're justified in hating Israel but you're not justified in just.... avoiding the horror of what was done to Israelis because it makes YOU uncomfortable, because you're afraid, because whatever. This feels even more urgent to me given its Women's History month but some of the worst perpetrators of this whole issue have been women themselves which makes it even worse.

The whole denialism also reeks of antisemitism from some corners.

Um yeah, I have a lot of feelings about this, one of the biggest of which is that it's beyond disturbing that you feel unsafe saying this publicly, because it is so obviously and undeniably wrong. I understand that people just want there to be an easy villain and hero, but sexual assault and rape are such a telling and important war crime because there is no utility in it. You can make an argument that almost every crime you can imagine, theft, destruction of property, even murder can be "useful" in war, but sexual violence has no purpose or utility beyond humiliation and trauma. It is cruelty for the sake of it, and you can't even create the illusion of some kind of justification.

But the denialism is antisemitic, and not just partially or in some corners. Horrifically, rape of women (and men and children too) has pretty much always been seen as "the spoils of war," so these rapes and sexual abuses are unfortunately not unique in that sense. But denying their existence is antisemitic because A. once again, 10/7 was not some rebellion or resistance against Israel, it was a terrorist attack on civilians that was perpetrated by a directly stated antisemitic terrorist group, and B. because rape has been used as a weapon against Jewish people for millennia as a specific and targeted form of terrorism and abuse. I mean, one of the prevailing theories about why Judaism is matrilineal is because rape of Jewish women was just that common. So to have absolute proof that these things have happened and either act as if it's justified or literally deny the reality right in front of their faces is antisemitic, across the board, zero exceptions.

And I hate to speculate because god knows what will happen, but it's extremely likely that things are going to get worse before they get better. There are still a lot of hostages that haven't been returned or even seen in weeks or months, and Hamas has repeatedly turned down deals to exchange hostages for a ceasefire. There are only a few things that this can mean. One of the most absurd but still likely options is that they just don't know where the hostages are anymore, which also almost certainly doesn't mean anything good anyway. It's highly unlikely that all of these people vanished into thin air and are coincidentally being treated well. And another obvious possibility is that whatever has been done to them is so horrific and/or so undeniable that Hamas doesn't want them to be released, because as of now they're winning the PR war and are literally getting people to agree that either the sexual violence didn't happen or it was somehow deserved.

Clearly I can't know that this is the case and there are other possibilities to explain why Hamas has repeatedly passed on a ceasefire, but there's no benefit to not even showing proof of life for these hostages unless something REAL fucked up happened or is happening to them. But regardless, I feel it really bears repeating, an organization with the stated intention of destroying all Jews then raping and sexually abusing a bunch of Jewish people is SO absurdly antisemitic that it's like the kind of comically outsized example you would try to make to explain bigotry to someone who heard the word for the first time two minutes ago, so the people who are still denying this reality are neo-Nazis in SJW clothing.

[sprnklersplashes]

every time the idea of nuance is brought up regarding israel/palestine, it is almost if not completely exclusive to israel. irsael deserves nuance because its population is jewish and because of the holocaust-which was a horrific, unjustifiable tragedy that should've been prevented years before it happened. you'd be hard-pressed to find a supporter of palestine who doesn't think that. but this is used as an excuse to give israel all the nuance in the world, its occupation and aparthied and war crimes get chalked up to 'it's complicated'.

but this isn't the case for palestinians. palestine is painted in black and white, with all nuances denounced as antisemitism regardless of their context. if you point out that hamas would not exist without the israeli occupation, or that violence from the colonised is not the same as violence from the coloniser, or that the vast majority of hamas had loved ones murdered by the occupation, or question the right of israel as a state to exist when it was founded on the mass murder and displacement of the native palestinians, you are not afforded nuance. even if you say something that would anywhere else be deemed uncontroversial such as 'hamas does not represent all palestinians', it is shot down immediately. because palestinians don't deserve nuance.

the situation is not complicated, at least not as complicated as it is made out to be. violent resistance against colonialism will always be worthy of nuance more than colonialism and genocide will ever be.

[officialtayley]

At this point it fills me with rage to see people calling it a conflict, imagine if people talked about the Holocaust like "the Nazi-Terrorist Jews conflict". It's truly insane how in this day and age, with the internet and access to information being at the palm of our hands, people still choose to support genocide. It's vile.

I had jewish ancestors dying as victims of the Holocaust and what Israel is doing is absolutely disgusting to me. The Holocaust is no excuse to the violence Israel is subjecting palestinians to, and honestly it is a hypocritical excuse to use. What? they're so scared of a 2nd Jewish holocaust that they decide to inflict one to someone else who doesn't even have ANYTHING to do with the Jewish holocaust? Why is a completely unrelated country the scapegoat of the "fear of a second holocaust"? Makes no sense. Also, isn't it a little antisemitic to say Jewish people only truly belong in the occupied Palestinian territory? There are jewish people of all nationalities, are their nationalities somehow less valid just bc they're Jewish (either from ethnical ancestry or religion) and they should "go back to where they belong"? Sounds kinda nazi-ish tbh. Also, Palestinian Jewish people exist and they're being massacred too.

Also, Jewish people didn't just passively submit during the Holocaust. There were resistance movements too, that enacted violence against Nazis. Are we calling them terrorists for defending themselves? I obviously don't support all acts of violence, I'm not stupid, civilians shouldn't be harmed (Israel thinks differently tho). But before being all black and white condemning ALL violence, let's think, after decades of failed attempts of solving that in a pacifist way, after years of seeing their friends and family die, and being stripped of all human rights, if the victims think armed resistance is the only hope against the violence of genocide, who are we to judge any resistance movement, when we're mere spectators behind a screen, privileged to know we'll never be in their position? Israel has stated many times that they think Palestinians are disgusting animals who should be exiled from their own country, a few days ago a document leaked detailing their plans to move them all to Sinai, the UN officials are calling it a genocide.... Honestly, the only terrorist here seems to be the illegitimate state of Israel (not the children and civilians of course).

Anyways, free Palestine.

this this this!!!!!!!! this is what an anon doesn't seem to understand but i think a lot of these people refuse to educate themselves because then it means admitting all of this and they'd rather spout lies and propaganda. hell an ambulance was bombed recently and the idf came forward to admit it was them and said hamas were using it, which is what they say every single time and we know it's not true. at some point people need to face reality and accept that what's happening is a genocide. this isn't just social media calling it that, like you mentioned, we have UN officials calling it that, we have other politicians calling it that, so just accept what the reality is.

free palestine!

[beatrice-otter]

On the subject of Israel, Palestine, genocide, and the International Criminal Court

First, all people, regardless of religion or ethnicity or other factor, deserve to be able to live in peace and safety without persecution.

Second, Hamas is a terrorist organization that (if it were powerful enough, which it is currently not) would absolutely murder every single Jew in the world. They have said this. They have committed unspeakable crimes and done great evil. But Hamas does not speak for all or even most Palestinians.

Third, Israel's violence in Gaza and the West Bank is a genocide. Benjamin Netanyahu and his faction would absolutely murder every single Palestinian if they can, and unlike Hamas they have the capacity they might be able to do it. And Netanyahu's policies (and those his faction of Israeli politicians pushed for decades ago) led very directly to both the suffering of Palestinians and to Hamas gaining power and influence. They did this because they wanted an excuse for genocide. But there is a longstanding and vocal Israeli opposition to Netanyahu's policies; he does not speak for all Israelis any more than Hamas speaks for all Palestinians. (And he certainly doesn't speak for all Jews.)

Fourth, way too many people have been taking sides--by which I mean, picking a team and deciding they're the good guys and the other guys are evil--and using that as an excuse for antisemitism and antimuslim hate. Which is only going to make the world a worse place and make it harder to stop the violence and bring a true, lasting, and just peace. Israel committing genocide doesn't retroactively make Hamas' terrorism good, and Hamas' terrorism doesn't justify Israel's genocide.

Which brings me to my complex feelings about the trial for genocide. Do I believe Israel is committing genocide? Yeah. Do I believe that genocide is wrong and should be stopped? Yeah. Do I believe that genocide should be exposed for what it is? Yeah. Do I believe that regimes which perpetrate genocide should face consequences for it? Yeah.

But why is Israel the only nation being brought up on charges for genocide? There are a lot of other nations committing genocide right now as we speak. And you could say "well, China is too powerful to be brought to justice for what it's doing to the Uyghurs" and you'd be right about that. But what about Myanmar? Sudan? Azerbaijan? Those nations are much weaker than Israel, and surely it would be easier to bring them to trial. And they deserve it at least as much as Israel for the genocide they are committing as we speak. But they're not on trial. Israel is. If the world were just--if the likelihood of a nation facing sanctions and criminal charges was based on justice and fairness, rather than on who's the easiest target and who's hated the most--many other nations would be facing similar trials.

It's a long-running pattern. Israel is one of the nations with the most international sanctions and censures against it. Every single time they do something wrong, there's a motion in the UN or some other wrist slap for it. And it's not that it's wrong for the UN to stand up and tell a nation that thing they did was evil. The problem is, Israel's record of what they've actually done is no worse than that of a lot of other nations (including the US). But things that get ignored when other nations do them get called out when Israel does them. And it's not that I think Israel should be able to get away with injustice and genocide--I don't--but I also don't think that all the other nations (including my own) should get a pass for what we have done and are doing. I don't think Israel is uniquely horrible. Many other nations (including the US) have done things just as bad, and in many cases have faced little or no censure for them.

The US is a racist nation. One of the ways you can tell is that our justice system, on average, treats people of color (especially Black people) harsher than it does white people. Black people make up 12% of the total US population, but 31% of the US prison population. This is not because Black people are more violent than others, but because the US criminal "justice" system targets Black people. They are no more likely to commit crimes, but far more likely to be convicted of crimes, and far more likely to receive harsh sentences. White people who commit crimes are far more likely to never be charged in the first place, or, if they are charged, to be found not guilty. If they do get found guilty, they are given lesser sentences on average. The high percentage of Black people in US prisons doesn't tell you much about Black people; it tells you a lot about American structural racism.

In the same way, the fact that Israel has had so many sanctions in past years and is facing trial for genocide now doesn't tell you much about whether Israel is better or worse than other nations. But it tells you a lot about the antisemitism of the international system, that they're targeted to a much greater degree than other nations that have done and are doing similar things.

And like I said, I do believe Israel's actions in Palestine are genocide, and that it should stop. But the fact that Israel is getting singled out here as uniquely evil says more about us than it does about them.