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jaynovz · 11 months

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Is it time for me to foam at the mouth about one of Silver's most batshit insane decisions in the entire show?

(So the ramble underneath this is literally 2k, so like, make good choices I guess. also pls imagine me as Pepe Silvia meme the entire time)

So I see people talking a lot about how Silver is fucking deranged bonkers banana cakes he has 10,000 snakes in his head instead of a brain and of course I agree this is just Canon.

However, the moments that we focus on are like 3.3, doldrums talking to Billy about Flint controlling reality when he's starving and dehydrated or like what he says in response in 3.10 when Flint tells him his story, about Thomas.

Both of those are very very good moments for Silver being fucking crazy and saying things out loud with his human mouth that no regular unfucked human being would come up with, he set new RECORDS for it, agreed.

TODAY I want to talk about a different moment, what I think is the most egregious example of Derangement. It's in the Silver-Flint gold conversation in 2.7.

Quick context-- Before Silver meets back up with Flint in 2.7 he was sent after a VERYYYY dissatisfying conversation (aka "the gold is still a priority" where Silver challenges Flint on the Vane and the fort and Abigail Ashe plan and Flint lies to his face) to go influence the men to vote for Flint's side of things over Hornigold's. After dealing with the Logan situation in the middle of that (which I don't actually think Flint ever finds out about Silver helping to cover that shit up, but that's not the point right now) he shows back up right in the middle of Hornigold addressing the pirate council and accusing Flint of a bunch of crimes (most of which are accurate lol) and Flint is Angy about "where the fuck has you [Silver] been?" and Silver tells him (loud enough for the entire council to hear mmhmm) that the gold is gone.

Now the order of the scenes, the timeline, means The Reveal about the gold is with Max later, (right, that later is the point it becomes real for us because we're finding out the same as Max's that Silver has made the gold disappear) and so it's hard to keep in mind until a second watch how the entire time there in the tent and Silver is putting on this performance, such a good show about it the whole time and then he goes and talks and gives the speech to the whole fucking combined crew and that entire time we don't know yet.

But Silver knows. He has already engineered a situation where he has convinced to the scouts that they're going to sell the location of the gold to another crew!! He has already removed the Urca gold from right under Flint's nose!! (Which is like the thing that Flint has been working towards for an unknown amount of years since he found out about it right? This thing, this sort of mythical amount of money, which is going to solve problems and effect change and build a future and fulfill Thomas ideals.)

And while he's talking he has already waved his hand and made it disappear in the narrative and he did it so skillfully that we don't even suspect that this is happening until the reveal and so sometimes it's hard to go back and think about the 2.7 tent conversation.

Potentially it doesn't quite HIT on the first watch. Maybe not even the second.

But yeah what I want to draw attention to is that... this ENTIRE TIME, from the moment Silver shows back up, he is putting on the performance of his fucking life. He's ALREADY met the scouts Vincent and Nicholas on the jetty, he's ALREADY convinced them ON THE FLY ON A WHIM to lie to Captain Flint. He's ALREADY coached them through exactly what to say to sell it, to lie to Captain James Flint's fucking face. right??? and THEN only after that does he goes to meet Flint.

And the very specific thing I am focusing on isn't even THAT gamble, which is fucking SCARY CRAZY ALREADY. But the WAY this boy pulls the bluff out, the lengths he goes to during the next convo in the tent about "there is no we. the gold was the inducement" and all that. You know the scene.

I wanna underline how Silver decides midstream, midargument to... FLIP IT AROUND and accuse Flint of making the gold disappear.... when Silver literally just made the gold disappear.

Silver: I believe I've been clear about the nature of my investment here. The gold was the inducement. Now no gold… Flint: It's an unfortunate development that we have to adapt, and quickly. Silver: Adapt? I've had about my fill of adapting lately. Doing your bidding, keeping the crew in line for you. Flint: I wasn't the only one to benefit from that. Silver: It certainly seemed that way. Even now you're the only one benefitting from it. Flint: What are you saying, that I'm benefitting from the gold having disappeared? Silver: It certainly solved a number of problems for you, didn't it? I have half a mind to wonder if you didn't orchestrate this whole thing to your advantage.

So yeah I'm uh, I'm literally foaming im frothing im cappucino right now. I want to put this UNDER THE MICROSCOPE AND STUDY HIM. what in the FUCK. Silver knows the entire time, this ENTIRE EXCHANGE, that not only is the gold still on the beach but that he is gonna fucking SELL THE LOCATION to Max and Rackham. And then sits there cool as a fucking cucumber with his mask of irritability...(because of course if he had nothing to do with it!!) Like of course he would be mad that the gold is gone, because the gold was the inducement RIGHT.

All of the rest of that is a foundation for like the craziest part isn't necessarily that he's putting on the act That's in keeping with him, we've seen that, we saw that he was getting more and more frustrated and that part doesn't surprise us that like he would... I mean we saw him steal the page and we saw him burn the page and we have seen him make these types of kind of batshit decisions so we're like "okay this this checks out."

But the truly deranged part where it goes beyond like it just like they're like literally... he. he. HE ACCUSES FLINT OF THE THING HE JUST DID. There was no reason for you to say that and at this point it's like he is SEEING how CLOSE he can get to the fire, he is seeing how much RISK can be pulled off. He's getting off on poking and sleeping dragon in the eye when he knows very well the entire time that he stole the fucking dragon's gold.

"I have half a mind to wonder if you didn't orchestrate this whole thing to your advantage."

I--

it's... it's some reverse psychology bluffing gamble, it's "let me say what has happened, let me literally ADMIT WHAT I JUST DID but no YOU did it, I projected it onto YOU. hope that you don't think about that too hard. let me hope that this works out"

There was... THERE WAS JUST NO REASON FOR IT. He was already pulling it off, the conversation was. "There is no we" and "I was clear about the nature of my investment" THAT'S ENOUGH. STOP.

there's just no reason for him to have done that but it's because he's fucking crazy he's a crazy person

The way his brain works just does not follow lines of logic like a sane human being!!

FURTHER POINT--

this is how we also get to the point where he convinces himself to go to Charles Town (because we see him go to Charlestown!! we see him on the ship the next time!! in 2.8!!)

and he says to the scouts that, yknow, paraphrasing "we came on this endeavor in order to allay suspicion about the fact that we have all double crossed this crew that we are sailing with right now including Flint"

now the thing about that is that and I think I've mentioned this before, but I don't know if I've said it in a formal post that so many people had defected/deserted because the gold was gone and they had no appetite for storming the fort after that. And then Silver went and convinced to the rest of the crew remaining to go to Charlestown to seek the pardons right and that's what Flint wanted him to do. So if Silver then defected because the gold was indeed the inducement and there was no gold then I don't think Flint would have fucking batted an eye!!!

And neither would anyone else!! because even though Silver is very useful to Flint as a tool right now, Flint was very mission-focused, very Miranda-focused very pardons-focused, very "let's fulfill Thomas's dream"-focused. So even though he does and has needed Silver a lot recently to influence the crew, I don't think he was really thinking about him basically for two-three episodes after that basically. Cuz they don't talk again, right, and they are just not in each other's orbit for 2.8, 2.9, 2.10.

So what that tells me is that Silver goes to Charlestown and he just... really didn't have to he could have stayed in Nassau and assisted Max or just laid low until the gold got retrieved and then potentially taking his share and left before Flint crew got back!!

I've talked about this specific part before where Silver says that their safety is contingent upon whether Flint is successful in his endeavor or not. Like he says that out loud to Vincent (which is the most bat ship banana cakes bonkers thing ever) about it because he's basically hitched his horse to the outcome of this pardon situation when he absolutely didn't have to do that to get the goal he and the scouts could have all just deserted and no one would have been the wiser because so many crew had, including Dufresne, because of the gold situation!!

Now there's some arguments here about well.... one of our main characters cannot just leave.

But because the writers have created a party member who wants to leave the party what they then keep having to do is invent more and more convoluted mental gymnastics to himself to continue staying and following Flint which is why at the end of the day I sort of can't really see a situation where the Silverflint thing is not like the main thing because they're both obsessed with each other in different ways (and Silver is obsessed first because he doesn't fucking leave and there's a bunch of reasons he should and there's a bunch of chances for him to do so) and so it all starts to look real fucking gay

But yes uh circling back... Silver lies to Flint's fucking face about the gold, going so far as to ACCUSE HIM of making it disappear, then goes on an extremely dangerous errand trapped on a ship full of people who he double crossed with two scouts with loose lips... when, in order to guarantee his future, if we're looking at actual real logic and actual real pragmatism and survival instincts and not just "oh I have to follow Flint because ummmm -dial up sounds-",

Then he should have stayed in Nassau.

#black sails #black sails meta #john silver #long post #disclaimer that I basically just sat in the bed last night and did speech to text ramble to my phone for an hour #and this is what we came out with #please imagine in all ways but physical me sitting next to you on a comfy couch with two fingers of rum #furiously ranting and gesturing about him with a roller coaster amount of volume variation #and you would be accurate as to the mood this post is supposed to convey #thoughts #like I cannot stress how long of a post this is I am not sorry but also buckle up buttercakes #i ahve been waiting for nearly a month to fully articulate this and I still dunno if I managed it #okay I've been waiting three years #i think i repeat myself oops #Charles town au

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dapperrokyuu · 10 months

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Alright now that I’ve seen the end Slay the Princess, who’s your favorite princess?

Ill do you even better and give you my top 5/the ones Id love to get if I played the game, just to see their sequences in the end and how itd reflect on that version of the player (literally made a list for fun just before you sent this ask, hehe).

Admittedly, a lot of this is informed by aesthetic and then enjoyment of their routes because I came into (watching Manlybadasshero play) the game after some fandom osmosis–thus, understanding I wouldnt have all my thoughts together within one playthrough. So I cant say Ive devoted my satisfactory amount of attention to speak on the princesses’ narrative presence... But I did rewatch their routes and “Thoughts on this vessel?” sections a bit to formulate a stronger opinion. Here we go...! (Buckle in, fellas, haha ha h a…)

1. Adversary/Eye of the Needle

The Adversary and the Eye of the Needle are very hand in hand imo, and I love the progression into a dragon-like appearance for the latter, especially in combination with the cabin becoming akin to a dragon’s den. This (combination of) routes stands out the most to me (as far as Manly has played) because I personally feel its the one where the princess is the most active and engaged. Whether its being beaten to death or running for one’s life, the route was very exciting for me! And it was intriguing how the princess and player felt the most on equal ground because they are both intent on pursuing some objective. Its just that in this case–and this is how this princess exceeds and is an overwhelming presence compared to the player–the princess is set on a choice they dont care to deny and the player is a creature of the habit called “deliberation,” as narrator aside, in-universe reasons aside, the very structure of Slay the Princess has taught you to constantly pause and consider your choices.

It contributes to the tone of the routes so well! Even if you can sit forever in the Outside World, the game progresses like a split second decision and/or that any time given to you is at the princess’s turbulent discretion. In a game where your choices tend to matter most (which, frankly, they do, its kind of the whole point, but you may not know that your choices are what caused this situation yet, lol), the princess seeming to supercede you and the narrative and the concept of death is!!! Powerful and quite something, lol. And poignant, considering *gestures vaguely but particularly at the Narrator*.

Otherwise, I love how theres apparently many more and amusing divergences in this route (that Manly did not showcase) and the ending is pretty cathartic. And to keep this a bit short, yadda yadda, dragon dens is where they store and protect their treasure and in this case, the treasure is fighting you, yadda yadda, as the vessel of growth, the princess’s embracing of the cycle of violence between you two is her latching onto the only avenue of growth she can perceive (as opposed to escaping–since you didnt offer that option prior–and dying since thats tend to be the stop to the concept of growth), yadda yadda-

2. Spectre

This princess’s voicework is probably my favorite! The whispering under the regular voice acting is just really neat, doing a great job setting a tone of something delicate, chilling, and unnerving. The princess’s design shifts between cute and scary very well too! Her personality is probably my fave overall; while her “thoughts on this vessel?” section highlights her embodying kindness and understanding, they only exist to an extent that is fair. Which is, well. Fair. And I think it extra emphasizes the understanding aspect, with how the princess is aware of her circumstances and the injustices that have occurred yet is willing to let bygones be bygones. Shes coy, sincere, and pragmatically deadly, which is a full spectrum of delight for me!

The moment that really gets me regarding her character is when you say youre gonna leave her. Other decisions lead you to working together or demonstrating you have no intention to with some form of violence–both resulting in the Spectre just responding fairly. But the “leave” option truly shows that the Spectre doesnt/never intends to act out in malice, since Spectre responds out of desperation to avoid perpetual loneliness, pain, and emptiness. Theres an aspect of “fairness” here too (youre abandoning and hurting her more after having murdered her), but the choice comes after a breakdown and deliberation as opposed to an immediate retaliation. Even then, Spectre laments that she didnt want things to be this way but youve made her worse. Other stand out moments are when Spectre goes, “Youre funny when youre confused. But I didnt give you permission to touch me,” and the player’s moment of patheticness, lol.

This route really hints onto the meta aspects of Slay the Princess too, which is neat! The whole “want to end the world” convo, Spectre just wanting to go home, reality being what is in front of us vs. static truth/objectivity, whether destruction being one thing leading into another vs. the same thing reborn, glass on the floor, and the narrator being like Spectre as a memory of a person…I dont have much to say here currently–still need to ponder, itd be a whole other conversation, Im a bit tired, lol–but its tons of food for thought that I enjoy! Yay, Spectre!

3. Prisoner

Fun fact: this is a rewriting of the extreme word vomit that was me lamenting over how I was kind of confused about the Prisoner but chose her for the sake of a 5th (note the placing change) and then discovering the absolute genius she is!!! Basically, my only exposure to the Prisoner I had was Manly’s recent playthrough, which contained (what Ill call) the Chained Together variation and didnt even have her “thoughts on this vessel?” section due to the game going into the final sequence immediately after. The Prisoner’s section in that final sequence befuddled me because I couldnt connect much other than a theme of “inevitable change,” and even when I dug up the Prisoner’s “thoughts on this vessel?” elsewhere, I couldnt put it all together…until I watched (what Ill call) the Head Trophy variation in the middle of my initial writeup.

Regarding what I enjoyed prior to recognizing genius, I really enjoyed how the Prisoner conducted herself–her curtness and resignation was very unique. Her form was created as a result of the player cutting off her arm, instilling a matter of fact-ness to her that allows her to slit the player’s throat later (got this from the Wiki, Manly didnt show this part). Upon waking up once again chained and chained even more, I interpreted the cleverness aspect from the Prisoner’s “thoughts on this vessel?” section as being able to come to terms with her situation, play along, and bid her time in hopes that her patience (that she emphasizes) would eventually reward her. After all, the Prisoner was willing to pretend she and the player met for the first time until the player prompts otherwise, even saying they dropped “playing the game”--very meta of her! Thus, I interpreted the Prisoner as the princess completely embodying/accepting her role in the game; she couldnt leave when she defied her role last time, so she was fine continuing to wait this time. As a character who realized they were a character and systematically changed their behavior to attempt a new avenue of escape, I thought that was the extent of the Prisoner’s cleverness and was satisfied…enough.

AND I WAS WRONG. DELIGHTFULLY WRONG. I assumed the Prisoner was completely fine with her potentially only means of escape becoming not one, since she didnt seem upset or disappointed. Which was frankly incorrect, as her rude curtness is a result of her being miffed with you. Why? Because her cleverness actually alludes to the fact she had a plan for escape the entire time, and you utterly fucked it up! Which, tbf, she shouldve shown more reaction than curiosity to dissuade the player, but I digress- During the Head Trophy variation, you realize that the Prisoner had a plan this entire time to deceive the Narrator and she succeeds so well because she also got me and got the player. How often do I get got? It was amazing! From the stare as the Prisoner takes the knife away from the player, to the smile before That All Happens, to the wink as it occurs and after, it may speak to an underestimation thats set up due to the Prisoner’s appearance and behavior, but reflecting on all the signs that She Planned This dismantles that perception and reaffirms that the Prisoner is a person with depth beyond what you expect from her and those in her role. As I viewed the Prisoner as a caricature of the princess’s role in the first place (the whole point is that the Prisoner is exactly like the princess in appearance except the chained/locked up aspect is exaggerated), this route is so striking for me with its interrogation of victimhood, how victims are treated/viewed, and how that may be unintentionally stripped of their personhood and reduced (into a caricature of solely “a victim”). The Prisoner puts it quite nicely when the player attacks and she “suddenly” has a ton of fight in her, stating, “Im not a damsel to be helplessly murdered!” …Im not sure if I put it into words the best, but I hope this is understandable. To top off the topic of Prisoner’s cleverness, its a neat detail (I dont know if this is intentional) that the Prisoner does the opposite of what her prior princess form did: the player cut her arm to free her last time, she cut herself out this time and the player “died” the last time, she “died” this time. Beyond recognizing there was a Narrator beyond them she should fool, the Prisoner also reasoned that since having the player kill her is likely not favorable, dying by her own hand might just be fine! The Head Trophy variation is just more poignant when you note that her “thoughts on this vessel?” section talks about how the Prisoner protected herself when others could not but for her plan to work, she has to put complete faith in another.

As 1000% better the Head Trophy variation is in the Prisoner’s route, I do have a soft spot for the Chained Together variation since, from both the Prisoner and the Narrator’s perspective, it must be a hilarious emotional rollercoaster. The Prisoner’s plan failed and shes now stuck with the loser who made it so…for potentially forever! The Narrator probably oscillates between an uneasy concession that while both gods are not dead, they are locked up forever and an utter dread that things may fall apart at any time and thus, the world is practically doomed with no way to change that. The Prisoner doesnt have to decapitate herself, which makes her freedom extra cathartic in the relief she likely felt and didnt expect…and also extra sad in how she found it was nothing but cold and is quickly taken away. Theres also something to be said about how the player joins the princess in her perspective by chaining himself up and that they both inform each other’s perspective, leading to their escape together: (1) since the princess isnt starving to death, the player also doesnt, which is a surprise to the Voices and (2) the player showing up again signaled that change is indeed possible to the princess, perhaps causing the ability for the world to erode around them. Maybe the latter is the Voices informing the player, causing the change…? But I like to think its the initial thought since the cabin could and shouldve have eroded prior to the player’s arrival, assuming the Prisoner understands the concept of erosion…which, I assume she does- Anyways, the route is as emotional as it is kind of wacky, which is up my alley!

4. Witch

This princess is the one I enjoy the most aesthetically. Im a sucker for both witches and cats, what can I say? The allusion to the fable The Scorpion and the Frog really tickles me, and ultimately, whatever decisions made in this chapter are some form of hilarious. Whether we’re both dying on the floor with broken backs or handing a blade to someone who immediately stabs you, its great. I do enjoy the progression into the Thorn chapter, especially with the immediate regret from the Witch and the following reconciliation in Thorn’s chapter, but Thorn is not as funny and aesthetically pleasing as Witch princess for me, which is why she is not here, haha.

Her “Thoughts on this vessel?” section adds a lot of depth to her, since the way the Witch presents herself is very superficial and guarded. Particularly the statement about the Witch making for a “righteous” heart, in combination with her ability to just slip out of her chains. She couldve freed herself at any time, but chose to stay and confront you. Which I feel speaks to the bitterness aspect, as the Witch feels its only “right” to pursue an answer to her pain–whether it be the player’s penance or punishment. The game’s thoughts on bitterness are made even more poignant when you realize the Witch’s ends are either death (hers and/or yours) or a transformation into another state.

5. Tower

This route is just incredibly cool in how she takes over the narrator and the little divergences of the narration’s phrasing to be in her perspective in the voiceover. The progression into that route was amusing for me to think about because I think the shift of perspective that transforms the princess boils down to either “the princess had the might of a god to have defeated you,” “your sudden stop during the fight was a blessing from god to the princess,” and/or “your sudden stop was because your recognized the value of the princess’s life as larger than your own (‘larger than life,’ referring to her bigger form as the Tower and godhood itself).” The Tower calling you disappointing is funny, but what also sticks out is how she said she wanted company before turning into the Tower. Even as the Tower with the ability to just free herself, she chose to wait for you because thats what she wanted, and I think that plays on the relational idea of “What is a god without a believer?” since she’s willing to have the player as a priest or pet, lol.

How this route differs from the Adversary route is interesting, as the Tower is indeed also an overwhelming presence whose decisions matter more than yours not because her single minded relentless pursuit of it but because of the power to overwrite yours. Its a twist on the player’s and princess’s roles until now, but instead of making them equal like in the Adversary, the roles were reversed on who decides and who is forcefully changed as a result of that decision. Of course, you cant take the ability to choose from us, as a player completely, but its about the best you can do, I imagine. And not to mention the “defiling” aspect when you slay the Tower, dragging her down from godhood to an equal (humanity?) or perhaps her original state of someone who responds to your decision as usual… I think this route connects deeply to the meta aspect of Slay the Princess, since this state is where the princess is closest to the “concept of change” and the concept of their true self as a god. It makes the “thoughts on this vessel?” section very poignant because change in itself is indeed a constantly dominant, terrifying, and arguably divine force in its inevitability.

Honorable Mention to...the Damsel!

I really like the deconstruction of her concept, but that also means I feel that liking her is completely counterintuitive to that very deconstruction, lol. Her route is very straightforward in what it does, but it kind of has to be. Meaning it does what it set out to do very well.

This took a bit and is so much more than you asked for, so thank you for your patience and acceptance. Im just bonkers and bananas, so if I have it partially done, I might as well go all the way instead of going in depth on only one, lol. It was a fun exercise in pondering deeper about the princesses and dipping my toes in the ~meta~, but I will also readily say that Im not at all nearly deep enough into Slay the Princess as a whole to be confident on my takes, so this may have just been a session of Talking Out Of My Booty. Nonetheless, I hope this was enjoyable and thank you for prompting me to think about it! The order of the princesses changed throughout this answer, and it may be fun to guess what order they were written in, lol. Id love to hear about your fave/faves if youre interested in sharing as well~! And please, have a lovely day too!!! c:

#a wild ask appeared!#thanks and also Im so sorry adnbladkj #but also maybe not and youre welcome??? I dunno boss #a showcase of how theres tons of thoughts up there theyre just in a dam constantly threatening to spill out and it either manages to stay #there forever or is a FLOODDDDD- anyways #slay the princess #I guess. in case anyone would find this an enjoyable read- gotta think on the game a ton more but bandwidth mayhaps Ill get there someday #*shrugs* I still gotta get into my cha*ns*w m*n thoughts... <- so I dont spam/mistag lol

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