#fire and blood ask

[horizon-verizon]

I’m the anon who wrote you about Daemon/Nettles and I have to say you and Daemyra shippers are the only ones who deny they were lovers,it’s not only Mushroom who said it,it is in the pro Blacks records and it fits Daemon,it doesn’t even mean he didn’t love Rhaenyra before but he was a womanizer, he loved dragonriders and she was young,he probably looked for some high and joy during the war,it’s not pretty but that’s Daemon,a grey man. The book says it pretty clear,is not a rumor,it also warns the readers that Nettles will cause “problems” to the 7 Kingdoms because Daemon will abandon Rhaenyra’s cause because of her,everybody knows it’s true.

Anon is referring to this POST.

"pro Blacks records" -- care to share, anon, which "records" you are talking about?

It would also be healthy for you to consider what this person says about Gyldayn and his history. It is in line with what I said HERE.

"everybody knows it's true" -- anon, why are you trusting the "everyone's" assessment of Daemon instead of looking at Daemon's actions and context? These are the same people (you don't specify so I assume they are people like Otto and some other courtiers in the Keep) who also believe that if you place an egg in a Targ royal baby's cradle and it immediately or soon hatches, then that child is a "true" Targ. Which is bullshit. Do not take things at face value. Doesn't mean that everyone believes it doesn't mean it's actually true. Use critical thinking and do comparative analysis. Use context, think about the biases that one may have.

The idea that Nettles would cause "problems" because Daemon supposedly was willing to abandon everything for her is both misogynist and inconsistent with how you and DaemonxNettles arguers yourselves characterize Daemon.

A)

It's misogynist because it repeats the idea that a woman's allure (and all women are attractions/repulsions to men) drives a man to distraction--blaming the woman 's very being--away from his societal duties or loyalties. It's Helen of Troy all over again.

Take a close read at Troilus and Cressida by Shakespeare and try a Folger’s edition so you can have footnotes and background info on how Renaissance intellectual society regarded the mythical figures mentioned and what philosophies about human will vs impulse. You will--if you actually think--see what I mean by the traditional misogyny.

Thus this argument is invalid.

B)

He could have flown away with Nettles if he either wanted Nettles more than Rhaenyra, or if he actually thought Rhaenyra was just unworthy of his loyalty. But he didn’t.

If he just wanted to just take advantage of Rhaenyra for himself and his own ambitions or ego, he would not left with Nettles because that would hinder or completely endanger his ability to hypothetically rule behind and control Rhaenyra.

He would not have lived with Rhaenyra for years on end if he did not love her. We see with Rhea Royce that he could never tolerate a marriage he did not enjoy or a person he did not love and/or respect.

He would not have created a plan to murder someone else’s son so that Rhaenyra’s son can be avenged (not his own bio son, this matters in context of these feudal men).

This is where Daemon has his “light”-ness and “dark”-ness. 

He does care and fight for his family---this is his “light”. That love and regard for them. (Viserys refused to annul a marriage he despised and there is evidence and strong suggestions of them having multiple heated disagreements. Their relationship was always  or mostly  contentious.) He is also very clearly a nonconformist in that he does not court customarily or act how Otto Hightower (traditionalist man) wants him to act towards Viserys.

But his family and chosen people are literally all he cares about and he’s totally intolerant of everyone else. His morals are skewed because he prioritizes his family and Rhaenyra above altruism and will use quickly and gladly violence to ensure their survival. This is the core of his “dark”.

The same maester who you maybe say is your “pro-Black record” says this:

Over the centuries, House Targaryen has produced both great men and monsters. Prince Daemon was both. In his day there was not a man so admired, so beloved, and so reviled in all Westeros. He was made of light and darkness in equal parts. To some he was a hero, to others the blackest of villains.

(“The Rogue Prince”, written by Gyldayn)

And it rests on what I said about him being intolerant of those he doesn’t consider close or loved ones.

No one ever said he was a good man or that they wanted him, copy and paste, to exist. (If you do hear them say the latter, run.)

C)

Romances are romances because the story or substory is about how a relationship develops from the existing/developing romantic feelings of the characters. This is the definition of a romance. Nothing more, nothing less.

It’s not about how palatable or how moral and good the people are.

We get nothing suggestive of romance between Nettles and Daemon. But we get a lot from Rhaenyra and Daemon. Go back and read again.

So your other arguments are invalid.

I'm saying you are a misogynist hypocrite who only uses superficial details whenever you need to make an argument but end up always contradicting yourself because you don't form real arguments with reasonable supporting evidence (text and context) for comparative analysis. In  case you missed it.

[sarcasticsweetlara]

regarding this post 👇

https://www.tumblr.com/sarcasticsweetlara/719670223671787520/spoiler-below?source=share

I think it's quite a powerful thing that the Velaryon and Targaryen ancestry continued through Laena and Rhaenyra's line

Yes, some green stans will say Aegon II made Aegon III his heir but he really didn't, he was going to try to have another child and kill his nephew.

And in the end the descendants of female heirs that had been spurned by men were the ones that sat the Iron Throne and the Driftwood Throne.

[sihtryggr]

He is the half of me, I will never know.

[orlaite2]

Visenya the Conqueror and baby Maegor

based on Leyendecker's "Madonna and Child"

[novembermorgon]

rhaenys & visenya

[synchodai]

HBO's Continued Insistence on Dumbing Down Westerosi Politics

So there have been countless thinkpieces already on how GOT simplified the feudalist politics of Westeros (by giving a lowborn sellsword lordship over The Reach, by having no consequences for destroying the Sept of Baelor, etc.), but I haven't seen a lot of people talking about that for House of the Dragon.

The worst being that the show presupposes that Rhaenyra is the lawful heir when the books showed there are plenty of lawful arguments why she wouldn't be.

Mind you that I've been enjoying the show a lot so far. This is just to vent out my frustration with the writers' failure to fully engage with the values and protocols of the Middle Age-inspired setting. The show seems uninterested in laws of the Realm in a story ostensibly about politics, save for when they're using it as an excuse to amplify depictions of sex and violence.

Blacks vs Greens wasn't a matter of misunderstanding of who each side thought Viserys wanted on the throne. It was the Targaryens' belief of their absolute authority clashing with the Realm's established traditions. Everyone always knew who Viserys chose as heir. In Fire and Blood, Grand Maester Orwyle said as much when he was parleying with Rhaenyra on behalf of the Greens.

Rhaenyra heard his terms in stony silence, then asked Orwyle if he remembered her father, King Viserys. "Of course, Your Grace," the maester answered. "Perhaps you can tell us who he named as his heir and successor," the queen said, her crown upon her head. "You, Your Grace," Orwyle replied. And Rhaenyra nodded and said, "With your own tongue you admit I am your lawful queen. Why do you serve my half-brother, the pretender?" Munkun tells us that Orwyle gave a long and erudite reply, citing the Andal law and the Great Council of 101. Mushroom claims he stammered and voided his bladder. Whichever is true, his answer did not satisfy Princess Rhaenyra.

(For non-F&B readers: Munkun is the Grand Maester who served Aegon III, the king who came after this civil war. Munkun's book, The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling, is one of Fire and Blood's source texts. Mushroom is the King Landing court jester from Viserys I to Aegon III's reign. One is a source written with academic rigor but is secondhand at best. The other is a firsthand eyewitness account but is from a literal fool who will take every chance to make things more scandalous and sexual to please the crowd.)

In House of the Dragon, they replaced Orwyle with Otto and Orwyle's discussion of legal precedent with Otto handing Rhaenyra a book page from Alicent. It's quite evident here that the writers, much like Mushroom, thought a discussion on the actual laws of the Realm were negligible in this story about a succession war.

Even Alicent made no pretense that Viserys chose Rhaenyra over her children and I have no idea why the HBO writers decided to make her mistakenly think otherwise. Maybe they thought a queen regent pushing her son to take the throne over another woman made her appear unsympathetic as a character, but if anything, this only makes show!Alicent less politically savvy and more delusional than her book counterpart, fully believing an addled king's vague muttering on his deathbed was sufficient grounds to change heirs last minute.

Book!Alicent following Andal laws instead of her husband's wishes makes sense given her Andal upbringing, her devotion to the Faith of the Seven which enforces said laws, and her desire to protect her children from Rhaenyra given that Rhaenyra has shown she's not above murdering family (see: Laenor).

In the books, there was a long discussion between the former king's council on who should succeed Viserys.

Here are the arguments for Rhaenyra:

Rhaenyra was older than her brothers and had more Targaryen blood

the late king had chosen her as his successor, that he had repeatedly refused to alter the succession despite the pleadings of Queen Alicent and her greens

hundreds of lords and landed knights had done obeisance to the princess in 105 AC, and sworn solemn oaths to defend her rights.

Here are the arguments for Aegon II:

many of the lords who had sworn to defend the succession of Princess Rhaenyra were long dead [...]

Ironrod, the master of laws, cited the Great Council of 101 and the Old King’s choice of Baelon rather than Rhaenys in 92

the hallowed Andal tradition wherein the rights of a trueborn son always came before the rights of a mere daughter

Ser Otto reminded them that Rhaenyra’s husband was none other than Prince Daemon, and “we all know that one’s nature. Make no mistake, should Rhaenyra ever sit the Iron Throne, it will be Lord Flea Bottom who rules us, a king consort as cruel and unforgiving as Maegor ever was [...]”

Should the princess reign [...] Jacaerys Velaryon would rule after her. “Seven save this realm if we seat a bastard on the Iron Throne.”

Once again, the show chose to cut out this long political discussion. Instead, the council had already made up their mind and decided to stage a coup (when in their perspectives from the books, it would definitely not be a coup).

For all their marketing how two sides are equally grey, HotD is actively delegitimizing Aegon II. The strongest argument for him is how his claim follows the laws of the Realm, but the show doesn't seem to care about the laws of the Realm or the political need to maintain a more predictable/tested transfer of power.

Instead, the show focuses on Viserys's relationship with his daughter and the mysticism of the Targaryen bloodline. In doing so, they emphasize Rhaenyra's strongest arguments for succession — that she's more of a Targaryen than her half-brother and that her father prefered her.

And what for? Because in our modern-day, we don't have male-prefered inheritance and people can only imagine misogyny as the only injustice here? What about the injustice of a monarch exercising absolute control, thinking that his "superior" heritage makes him above the established laws of the native people?

This is not to say Aegon II is unquestionably the heir. But this is to say that the show removed the political nuance of why people are questioning in the first place. Precedence isn't the end-all-be-all of succession, but neither is "because daddy said so".

[quiddling]

your rhaenyra is biblically accurate canon milf

thank u i wanna scissor the sadness out of her so bad it makes me look stupid

[everchased]

so, Astarion and Finch. which one of them watches the other fight and thinks "that's so hot"?

finch finds astarion's skill and deftness with a blade VERY sexy admirable but i think the person who has that immediate "HOT" moment is astarion himself.

there is probably something immediately attractive to astarion "technically not a murderhobo but only because he dresses nice" ancunin about seeing a man who (for the most part) tries to favor persuasion decide that a situation is bad enough to call for killing someone

and swiftly, effectively, and mercilessly

following through with that decision.

[parissfrogg]

“Red Winter is coming!”

As his final words echoed through the streets, Martyn raised his axe to the overcast sky. Before anyone in the crowd had the chance to so much as gasp, the axe fell and went clean through Ren’s neck, bouncing off the stone of the altar with a painful, metallic sound.

The Pact of Our Youth - Chapter 3

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

in asoiaf, what is the order of succession for nobles and for the throne (as i’ve read they are different)?

They are indeed different. In most of Westeros, they use traditional Andal succession, known in our world as male-preference primogeniture. This puts women at the back of the line, so to speak, but does not exclude them. A lord's eldest son inherits, even if he has older daughters, followed by the remainder of his sons by age, and then his daughters, and then would move up to the previous generations with his brothers and then his sisters. "A daughter comes before an uncle," as they say. For example, with the Starks, Ned's succession is Robb-Bran-Rickon-Sansa-Arya. (Benjen is excluded for being a man of the Night's Watch; Jon is excluded by being a bastard and a man of the Night's Watch. But of course there's complications.) This succession also includes the heirs of the heirs, so for example Hoster Tully's succession is Edmure-Catelyn-Robb-Bran-Rickon-Sansa-Arya-Lysa-Robert-Brynden.

Note there are exceptions to this, even after King Jaehaerys I Targaryen codified the laws across Westeros. Sometimes these exceptions appear to be cultural. For example, somehow House Stark has never had a ruling lady in all its reported 8000 years of existence, and the time we know they should have, Cregan Stark's eldest (and late lamented) son Rickon's eldest daughter Sansa was (forcefully?) married to Cregan's eldest son from his third marriage, her half-uncle Jonnel, who became the lord instead. Another example - after Balon Greyjoy dies, a maester insists that "By rights the Seastone Chair belongs to Theon, or Asha if the prince is dead. That is the law", and Aeron Greyjoy dismisses it contemptuously as "green land law", and thinks the Iron Islands will never follow a woman.

Sometimes these exceptions appear to be just plain misogyny - like when Big and Little Walder Frey discuss the succession of the Twins, they don't count the women in the line. Mind you the Walders are children and may not know true details; but time will tell if Edwyn's daughter Walda will inherit or if her uncle Black Walder will seize the Twins. (Probably the latter.) Of course little Walda also has the problem of being a child heiress, but child heiresses have become ruling ladies before -- like Jeyne Arryn, whose inheritance was contested multiple times by her male cousins -- or like Cerelle Lannister, who inherited at the age of 3 and ruled for a year before dying suddenly and her uncle Gerold became lord. Um. It's hard out there for a girl. 😭

And in Dorne, they use a different form of succession entirely -- Rhoynar tradition, what we call absolute primogeniture. Much simpler, there the eldest child inherits regardless of sex. So Doran's heirs are Arianne-Quentyn-Trystane-{Elia}-{Rhaenys}-{Aegon}-Oberyn. Of course, Dorne has its own exceptions: per GRRM, a few houses in the mountains, least affected by the Rhoynar, may sometimes follow Andal tradition instead, which is likely the reason why Cletus Yronwood was considered the heir instead of his older sister Ynys. (Mind you, Cletus is dead now, and Anders Yronwood only has daughters left, so sucks to be a man compared to Criston Cole, doesn't it?) And Arianne was worried that Doran was going to have Quentyn inherit instead of her, but she didn't know that Doran was actually planning to make her queen of Westeros, which would take her out of the Sunspear succession (in the same way that Myriah Martell married Daeron II Targaryen and her younger brother Maron became Prince of Dorne).

Now. The Targaryen succession to the throne is a different matter. For them, they've had the competing issues of tradition, king's choice, sexist lords voting sexism, even more tradition, and politics. (Sooo much politics.) Putting the rest of this behind a cut because it was already a long post but it got longer:

From the start, as far as we know the pre-Conquest Targaryens in Westeros used traditional Andal succession. (It's unknown how succession was handled in Valyria, or if there was a difference between the dragonrider families and any others.) There is a brief mention that Aenar the Exile's grandchildren, Aegon and Elaena, ruled together, but every other Lord of Dragonstone was indeed a lord, and hardly any daughters are even referred to. By the time we get to the Conquest trio, we know that Visenya was the eldest child, and yet her younger brother Aegon was Lord of Dragonstone. And later, Aegon was the king, with his sister-wives as his queens (though unlike later queens, they sat the Iron Throne and handled day-to-day governance of the realm).

The first time we see an issue with this succession tradition was when King Aenys died and his half-brother Maegor usurped (and later killed) Aenys's eldest son Aegon. By Andal tradition, Aegon and his sister-wife Rhaena's eldest daughter Aerea should have succeeded after Maegor died (he considered her his heir until he had children of his own), but instead Aegon's younger brother Jaehaerys became king. Political issues there: Jaehaerys actually successfully contested Maegor's rule, he was a strong teen boy with a sword and a dragon where Aerea was a girl of six who'd been in hiding most of her life, her mother Rhaena had been forcefully married to Maegor and had few supporters, Aerea had been named heir by Maegor specifically to cut out Jaehaerys, etc. Though note Aerea was considered Jaehaerys's heir... until he had children of his own. And as for Rhaena (Aenys's eldest child), she never actually vied for the throne after Maegor's death, but later in her life she bitterly told Jaehaerys "you have my throne, content yourself with that."

As for Jaehaerys and his children, from the start there were problems, when Queen Alysanne expected their eldest child Daenerys to be queen one day (why Alysanne expected the throne to follow absolute primogeniture at this point is unknown), and Jae was like, sure, our second child Aemon will be king and she'll be his wife! But Daenerys died as a child, and as for Aemon, he died too, albeit as a father of a grown daughter with a child of her own on the way. And there you have Jae sexism part 2, instead of naming Rhaenys as his heir, he instead named his second living son, Baelon, as his heir. So here's the precedent where the throne deliberately denied Andal succession tradition, and instead went with king's choice.

Then 9 years after Aemon's death, Baelon also died, and Jaehaerys held the Great Council of 101 AC, for all the lords of Westeros to decide between all of Jaehaerys's potential heirs. In the end, the final choice was between Aemon's daughter Rhaenys's son Laenor (Rhaenys herself was also in competition, though her claim was dismissed early) and Baelon's son Viserys. By a large percentage, the lords chose Viserys. According to maesters,

In the eyes of many, the Great Council of 101 AC thereby established an iron precedent on matters of succession: regardless of seniority, the Iron Throne of Westeros could not pass to a woman, nor through a woman to her male descendants.

This female-exclusive tradition is known in our world as agnatic primogeniture, or Salic law. However, this "iron precedent" was not that iron even from the beginning. Viserys and his wife Aemma only had one living child, Rhaenyra, so Viserys's brother Daemon was considered his heir until a son was born. And, well, if you've seen the first episode of HOTD you know what happened, because of Daemon's fuckup Viserys deliberately dismissed him, "disregarding the precedents set by [...] the Great Council in 101", but used the precedent of king's choice to name Rhaenyra as his heir and make all the lord of Westeros vow to obey that decision. Again, you've seen what happened next -- Viserys then remarried and had sons, whose grandfather used the Andal tradition to try to make Viserys name as heirs, but he refused to bypass Rhaenyra. In the end, though, when the Green Council formed after Viserys's death,

Ser Tyland pointed out that many of the lords who had sworn to defend the succession of Princess Rhaenyra were long dead. “It has been twenty-four years,” he said. “I myself swore no such oath. I was a child at the time.” Ironrod, the master of laws, cited the Great Council of 101 and the Old King’s choice of Baelon rather than Rhaenys in 92, then discoursed at length about Aegon the Conqueror and his sisters, and the hallowed Andal tradition wherein the rights of a trueborn son always came before the rights of a mere daughter.

So the law cited to name Aegon II king was one king's choice vs another king's choice, as well as Andal tradition and the "iron precedent" of the Great Council. And thus we got the Dance of the Dragons, Rhaenyra vs Aegon II.

But what about afterwards? What does Fire & Blood say about Aegon III, how did the maesters decide he inherited, through Aegon II (as his only living male relative), as Daemon's son, or as Rhaenyra's son? Well, it doesn't actually explain this point! The moment Aegon II died, Corlys Velaryon's men were freeing Aegon the Younger from his hostage prison, and then when the late Rhaenyra's (finally) winning army showed up at the gates of King's Landing, we just have Corlys saying, "The king is dead, long live the king." No maester commentary on the precedent at all, much to the frustration of backseat lawyers and historians in the fandom, who keep arguing one way or the other, or the various fandom teams, who keep arguing which side actually won.* 😅

*The answer is nobody. Nobody won.

And note that because Aegon III had no known living male relatives at the time (his brother Viserys was missing and presumed dead), his half-sisters Baela and Rhaena were considered his heirs, again despite this supposed "iron precedent". Leading to one of my favorite quotes from F&B:

Yet it was Grand Maester Munkun who put an end to the debate when he said, “My lords, it makes no matter. They are both girls. Have we learned so little from the slaughter? We must abide by primogeniture, as the Great Council ruled in 101. The male claim comes before the female.” Yet when Ser Tyland said, “And who is this male claimant, my lord? We seem to have killed them all,” Munkun had no answer but to say he would research the issue.

Though Aegon III's council and regents really wanted Baela to have a proper son, and when she rejected their (fat old guy) intended husband and instead eloped with a legitimized bastard, they wasted no time getting her sister Rhaena married to someone suitable, though she actually chose her husband, an older knight she'd become friends with in the Vale. And then Unwin Peake killed off Aegon II's daughter Jaehaera in order to marry Aegon III to his own daughter, and Baela and Rhaena did an end run with a new wife for their brother, a very young girl he didn't touch for 10 years... Of course, all this plotting came to nothing when Viserys did show up alive, so the lords could be satisfied with no need for an icky girl queen, the very idea.

The next time we see any competing issues of precedent for the succession to the throne was after Aegon III's second son, Baelor the Blessed, died without any children. By rights, per Andal tradition, his successor should have been his sister (and ex-wife) Daena. However, because Baelor had imprisoned Daena and her sisters in the Maidenvault for 10 years, they had few supporters, complicated by the fact that Daena had also recently had a bastard and refused to name the father. And of course, the Dance was still on everyone's mind as it had ended only 40 years before. So,

The precedents of the Great Council of 101 and the Dance of the Dragons were therefore cited, and the claims of Baelor's sisters were set aside. Instead the crown passed to his uncle, the King's Hand, Prince Viserys.

And Viserys II was followed by his son Aegon IV and so on. After this point, we do not have any real questions about gender and succession for a while. (Though some wonder, when Daemon Blackfyre vied for the throne, if he ever cited his mother Daena's stolen claim, in addition to being the unstated choice of his father Aegon IV. Also Aerys I named his niece Aelora as his heir after her brother-husband Aelor died, but she also died before Aerys did.) By the time of the Great Council of 233 AC, the claim of Vaella, only child of Maekar's eldest son Daeron, was dismissed immediately, though note she was also considered "simple", and Maekar's fourth son came to the throne as Aegon V.

And then in 283 AC, Robert Baratheon took the throne from the Targaryens. While many believe he took the throne by conquest (killing King Aerys II Targaryen's heir Rhaegar, while Aerys was killed by Jaime Lannister), maesters cite the fact that Robert was the grandson of Rhaelle Targaryen, daughter of Aegon V! So where is that "iron precedent" now, with Robert as the descendant of a Targaryen woman? And Robert's brother Stannis considers his daughter Shireen to be his heir, and people in Westeros in general consider Robert's daughter Myrcella to be his heir (after her brothers Joffrey and Tommen). Not to mention the fact that (claimant king in exile) Viserys considered Dany his heir, naming her Princess of Dragonstone.

So. Theoretically by the time of the main books, this "no women allowed ever" precedent for royal succession is still out there. In practice, however, the throne currently either follows Andal tradition of sons before daughters (but yes, including daughters), or the "whoever has the larger army" tradition of old. And that will be what truly decides the question of Aegon (or Jon) vs Daenerys, whether Rhaegar's line was disinherited by Aerys II or whether any maesters pop up to say "but iron precedent!" or what. Fire and blood, as always.

[fanfictionroxs]

No wonder Harwin started grinning when he saw Rhaenyra covered in blood, my man grew up around Alys "blood nummy licky licky" Rivers. He's used to insane women, that's exactly his type.

[horizon-verizon]

Do you think Daemon actually had sex with Mysaria during the dance? Personally, I doubt it a bit. Far too many people take this story for granted. Note that I'm not saying it's impossible. Simply that the reverse is not either. I'm curious to hear your opinion on this?

Motivations and Why People May Stray or Cheat

a lack of emotional and/or sexual connection in the relationship

unmet needs: attention, sex, undemanding or non-stressful conversation

excitement and just sexual desire

opportunity and unexpected situations

wanting variety and being attracted to other people

falling out of love and/or falling in love with someone(s) else

looking for some emotional refuge or “peace” away from relationship

verbal, emotional, or physical abuse--actual safe space

feeling trapped and having no options out of a relationship (which can be abusive)

anger/revenge

self empowerment: to combat feelings of feeling lost themselves

substance abuse

paranoia and fears of abandonment

The Dance and Our Players

The Dance began when Alicent and Otto called the green council and killed Lord Beesbury. This means that Mysaria was in King's Landing and Daemon was with Rhaenyra in Dragonstone before Aemond kills Lucerys. Daemon would not have been physically close enough to Mysaria to have sex with her.

Even if she was with him and Rhaenyra at Dragon stone occasionally over their married-family years, Daemon and Rhaenyra had no evidential nor strong suggestive marital disputes or lasting tension from external pressures like they would have later when they are all in King's Landing and Rhaenyra's grief over her two lost sons dissociates her from Daemon.

I don't think that Daemon would have looked to Mysaria or had sex with her before Rhaenyra took King's Landing because Mysaria had nothing to emotionally offer him that Rhaenyra wasn't already.

As for while they are in King’s Landing, I now think he didn’t because he spent too long with Rhaenyra to have gone to sleep with Mysaria of all people.

The prince greeted me politely, but as he read I saw the joy go from his eyes, and a sadness descended upon him, like a weight too heavy to be borne. When the girl asked what was in the letter, he said, ‘A queen’s words, a whore’s work.’

(Fire and Blood; “Rhaenyra Triumphant”)  

And if you go back to my list of why people cheat, there is a lot to reason why Daemon would cheat (or if it was a sort of sexually open relationship, find someone else). But then we'd have to consider the circumstances.

(At King's Landing) Thoughts While Reading the Book

On the one hand, I totally saw these two having tension and Rhaenyra allowing him to seek company in Mysaria, but I can also see Daemon waiting for Rhaenyra to “come back” to him. 

I continue to think that Rhaenyra choosing to not go with his idea of marrying the Rosby and Stokeworth girls to the Ulfs shows the degeneration of her trust in him and their relationship, her leaning towards the conventional solutions because they are easier. And this notion was there when I was considering whether he slept with Mysaria.

Sleeping with Mysaria would endanger Rhaenyra’s trust in him in his mind no matter Rhaenyra’s allowance because Mysaria, who’s working as their Mistress of Whispers unofficially, would be everywhere and a constant reminder of Rhaenyra’s most unstable and vulnerable moments. I also thought that maybe Rhaenyra knew this and was thus nonchalant (seeming) when she hears from others about him and Mysaria sleeping together. But then that would go against her paranoid state?

But Daemon could also just want to have sex and finds de-stressing comfort in it, thus look to Mysaria. (No chance at all for romance or substantial emotional intimacy like the maybe of before). And he supposedly spends a lot of time with her, seeing as people talked about it enough to bring it up to Rhaenyra. But that's because Mysaria had been working for them and she still does. Of course, Daemon would be around her.

At the same time, what if there had only been a few sus events where the two did things non-sexually and were seen, and these moments were brought up to throw Rhaenyra off? She wasn’t well liked by even some around her. I need to think more about how likely this is.

He so easily puts Mysaria down with the words “a whore’s work”, immediately sweeping all she may have doesn’t for them both as their Mistress when he learns that she convinces Rhaenyra to go after Nettles, hurting two people that he considered close. 

How happy he seemed from receiving the letter from Rhaenyra just before he actually reads it. 

Caraxes’ cry and the shattered windows revealing his inner turmoil and defeat in Rhaenyra’s loss. 

The fact that he spends 14 days alone at Harrenhal to wait for Aemond, cutting into the tree as if he’s lost and aimless. (Neither Nettles nor Mysaria could inspire such emotion.) The metaphor of the bleeding tree.

When the last of them was gone, Daemon Targaryen walked the cavernous halls of Harren’s seat alone, with no companion but his dragon. Each night at dusk he slashed the heart tree in the godswood to mark the passing of another day. Thirteen marks can be seen upon that weirwood still; old wounds, deep and dark, yet the lords who have ruled Harrenhal since Daemon’s day say they bleed afresh every spring.

(Fire and Blood; “Rhaenyra Triumphant”)  

All this ultimately makes me think that he never really trusted or cared for Mysaria after he sent her away back to Lys after she miscarried. At least he didn’t see her as “family” or “close one” anymore. Therefore he wouldn’t bother being sexually close to her.

And then there's Rhaenyra supposedly allowing him to plow Mysaria, and I could see her either meaning because she simply is in grief and still recovering from Visenya's birth, or she said that to get people off her back. But when we see her reaction to Nettles, it seems like she didn't want Daemon to sleep with anyone in any circumstance and no matter if she said or didn't say those words.

I also judged how this turmoil could also have come from guilt for being any kind of vulnerable to Mysaria, endangering Rhaenyra. Since I know he loved her.

Honestly anon, I am not 100% sure. I think he didn't sleep with Mysaria because of the disadvantages of it, but again if GRRM comes out and says that he did do some things with Mysaria, even if they aren’t penetrative or frequent--it wouldn’t shock me either. He and Rhaenyra were in high-stress situations. 

And I have no experience in this. Too much of a loser.

[gibberishquestion]

at least this will make a fun chapter of your book, donna!

[korkiekenobiconfirmed]

I split the apple down symmetrical lines

[sunfyrisms]

Yess I’ve noticed that there is a huge disconnect between fans who read the books and those who have solely watched the tv show.

Those who read the books better understand how messed up the Targaryens are, and how they ruined themselves from within. From thinking they’re superior and comparing themselves to gods, to all of the inbreeding.

Those who solely watch the show seem to root for them (or just Dany) at every turn.

I can definitely see a mad queen arc coming for Dany in the books, the show just rushed it and wrote it poorly. Now I feel that George rr Martin may be too scared of the backlash from those who fell in love with the tv character.

this is super late, i apologize, anon!

i cannot blame people who haven’t read the books. house of the dragon goes out of their way to glorify a house who descends from incredibly vicious and violent slavers. instead of portraying aegon the conqueror’s conquest as something that was done entirely done by greed, they indirectly portray him as this noble man who felt compelled to unite the realm to fight against the white walkers.

rhaenyra is portrayed as the perfect queen, who was approved by the gods themselves. of course she knows of the prophecy, and like aegon, is portrayed as this noble individual who is burdened by this divine task and must unite the realm. she is a perfect targaryen dragonrider and anyone who dares dislike her or speak out against her is a villain who must be punished and humbled (alicent) or brutally executed (vaemond).

fire and blood was created to show how house targaryen, as you perfectly said, ruined themselves from within. house of the dragon is a poorly written fanfiction that was created as a cash grab and as a way to portray targaryen superiority.

[novembermorgon]

hii, in case you still take suggestions could you do elaena? totally ok if not! also wanted to say i'm in LOVE with your art it's so so gorgeous

quick one for u anon