#he doesn’t want to directly face post-abyss lbh

[mxtxfanatic]

The way people view Bing-mei as a villain for having an appropriate (and I’d argue it’s actually pretty damn tame) reaction to being an abuse victim needs to be studied as a critique of how society very easily turns against victims who do not appropriately perform victimhood. In the story, the cultivation world outside of Cang Qiong Mountain are in the dark about how Luo Binghe was treated pre-Abyss, but we the audience know! We know he was abused horrifically for his first 14 years of life, 4 of those years under his shizun. Three years of kindness before being kicked into hell is not going to erase the scars left by that abuse. And just because we the audience also know that Shen Yuan’s Shen Qingqiu was not responsible for those first 4 years of Luo Binghe’s life as a disciple, that does not mean that he is let off the hook for them as the person assuming Shen Qingqiu’s identity, let alone the fact that he is the one who still forces Luo Binghe into the abyss, not Shen Jiu.

Meanwhile, Shen Qingqiu, himself, knows that he wronged Luo Binghe and spends the rest of the novel attempting to make up for it. After all, the abyss, itself, and that final act of betrayal are a point of trauma on their own level above those previous years of mistreatment combined. Shen Qingqiu never absolves himself of his actions the way fandom does for him, but the fact that he feared Luo Binghe’s retribution is somehow enough to flip who the victim is and who the abuser is in too many people’s minds. Even Bing-ge and Shen Jiu get this treatment: people act like because Bing-ge allowed his resentment to consume him in his thirst for vengeance that this not only absolves Shen Jiu of the grotesque abuse he subjected a 10-year-old to for 7 years in an attempt to kill him but that it also makes Shen Jiu the “ultimate victim” of the relationship rather than the reaper of the seeds of abuse he sowed. Cause as we all know, vengeance makes a villain, but somehow baseless abuse does not (🙄).

People take fear (or claims of it) as the sign of “true victimhood” while anger is assigned as an “abuser emotion,” especially in cases of abuse where the abuser is well-liked, and I see this sort of idea in the stated reasoning behind 95% of the Luo Binghe hate.

[tossawary]

For whatever reason, my brain fed me a “Shen Yuan transmigrates in as Linguang-Jun” AU. Probably just as a one-shot thing to explore a SY & MBJ relationship. This happens when MBJ is an older child or a young teen, I think, so LGJ has done some shit, but the shitty relationship isn’t totally set in stone yet. SY panics, of course, because he has no idea how to be a demon. 

SY eventually settles on trying to make good with MBJ (within the limits of the OOC locks at first) so that Mobei-Jun doesn’t grow up to kill him. Young MBJ’s first reaction is that this is a trick of some kind, albeit an extremely confusing one. Young MBJ eventually witnesses something (SY utterly failing to use his demon powers while he’s still trying to figure them out) and it clicks for MBJ that his uncle has been possessed or replaced. 

MBJ eventually decides that his uncle has been permanently possessed by a dream demon or the like. Should he tell someone about this? Maybe! But he kind of likes this version of his shitty uncle better. This version of LGJ isn’t trying to kill him and, like, serves that bastard right getting his body stolen by an apparently incompetent dream demon. 

SY fakes it until he (kind of) makes it as a demon. LGJ has been scary enough over the years and has MBJ’s father’s protection, so SY doesn’t have to jockey for power too much. SY is also kind of good at playing elegant, handsome villains when he’s called upon to do so (SY could consider what this says about him as a person, but he’s not going to). SY is mostly left alone to study horrible monsters to his heart’s content. 

And also hang out with young Mobei-Jun. MBJ takes advantage of SY to, idk, get his hands on some family weapon locked up in a vault where kiddos can’t get it, like a child tricking their uncle into giving them car keys at twelve. Uncle-nephew trips consist of MBJ using this new LGJ!SY who wants to win his favor as a get-out-of-jail-free card. 

Shen Yuan: “MY darling nephew? Steal YOUR demon horse? Unlikely! How dare you make such an accusation!” 

Mobei-Jun: *absolutely did do that for kicks and is very curious to see how far he can take this before someone calls him on it*

Eventually, a teenage or young adult MBJ meets Shang Qinghua. He doesn’t tell SQH about the dream demon possessing his uncle, nor does he tell the dream demon possessing his uncle about SQH. At least, not until he overhears SQH use a word that MBJ has overheard SY use before, something like, “WTF.” And then MBJ is like, “What does that word mean?” 

Shang Qinghua: “My king-?! Oh, uh, nothing! Nothing, really!” 

Mobei-Jun: “I have heard this word before. I know it means something. What does this word mean?” 

Shang Qinghua: “...You’ve...? Wait, what?!” 

And then MBJ gets badgered into letting SQH meet the new Linguang-Jun. SQH does not play this subtle enough for MBJ not to have questions, so MBJ exits the room and then blatantly eavesdrops on the conversation because SQH and LGJ generally seem to forget about the extent of demon hearing. 

Shang Qinghua: “Proud Immortal Demon Way?” 

Linguang-Jun!SY: “...Another transmigrator?!!!” 

And Mobei-Jun is like, “Oh, Shang Qinghua is also a dream demon. This makes sense given the many strange things about him. I am very clever.” 

Just because, I really like the idea of MBJ actually being able to perceive transmigrators to some degree? Given his family’s bullshit about consuming and stealing power, he’s always on the lookout for possession (but he’s unfamiliar with humans, so it’s harder there). So, like, there’s Mobei-Jun and his two “dream demons” who are quite bad at pretending to be the powerful demon and the ordinary human they’re possessing. He’s cool with this. 

SY gets MBJ to treat SQH decently. Kind of accidentally, but still.

Anyway, I’m going to assume that #1 LBH fanboy Shen Yuan finds an excuse to go “check” on the poor young protagonist at some point. He badgers Shang Qinghua about how the kid is doing and SQH is like, “Oh, yeah, that kid is definitely being abused.” Shen Yuan talks himself into becoming a secret demonic patron and mentor, just to make sure that the protagonist doesn’t end up growing up to kill him, you know. 

LBH ends up taking a lot of away missions from the peak to stay away from SQQ, who is basically like, “Yes, fuck off. If you die, that’s fine.” And LBH keeps running into his “secret demonic patron and mentor”. And maybe being saved by SY several times. SY kind of digs the idea of being able to offer wise advice to the protagonist. That’s not a bad position, right? 

LBH falling in love with this mysterious and weirdly kind demon lord? It’s exactly as likely as you think. Age difference? No issue in LBH’s mind! 

(SY probably accidentally runs into Liu Qingge too, and saves and kind of seduces the man, of course. Liu Qingge makes it his mission to track this demon down because he is VERY ANGRY about this.) 

If SY can make SQQ into LBH’s type, then he can absolutely make LGJ into LBH’s type. When Shang Qinghua cottons on to this, he’s just like, “A handsome ice demon with villainous character design? My, uh, protagonist and I have very similar taste in men, I guess. Holy shit.” 

Mobei-Jun and Post-Abyss Luo Binghe face-off for Luo Binghe’s rights to court the totally oblivious “dream demon” possessing Mobei-Jun’s uncle. Because I like the idea of Mobei-Jun repeatedly giving the protagonist “impossible tasks” just to fuck with him and then being mildly surprised when LBH keeps succeeding, while LBH can’t bully MBJ because MBJ is SY’s “darling nephew” and LBH doesn’t want to upset SY. (Very smug MBJ face here.) 

Eventually Mobei-Jun is like, “Go conquer the Demon Realm, I guess?” So LBH spends the next 5 years or so doing that, sending SY many, many gifts and letters. While Mobei-Jun is like, “It won’t actually help him. Dream demons are very stupid and must be told directly of any romantic feelings.” 

Shang Qinghua: “Haha, I guess. Wait- dream demon?!” 

Mobei-Jun: “Oh, I forgot to tell you I knew.” 

Mobei-Jun’s face turns extremely judgmental. 

Mobei-Jun: “You really didn’t know that I know what you are?” 

Shang Qinghua: “...No...?!” 

[faelicy]

Miss Faelicy I would love to get your opinion on Bingqiu.

I see people posting things like how they are "problematic" and how they don't really love each other and SQQ only feels sympathy etc. Obviously there were struggles between them as there should be (considering all that happened) and just because sqq wasn't very open and super obvious about his feelings doesn't mean they are not there..this is how I interpreted it. I would love to know your opinion

Hello! This also covers part 2 of the previous ask.

First, massive spoilers for the end of the novel. Second, a disclaimer: I despise shipwars, which I think are behind most of those comments. I hate them because it's usually all in bad faith: everyone's already committed to their interpretation of the ships, and any discussion is just a guise for justifying their preferences.

So to any readers: I don't want anything here to be used as shipwar fuel. This post is about Bingqiu's canon arc and themes. Basically, I don't know or care if Bingqiu is a good ship, but I do think it's a well-written one.

I'll start by saying directly: for most of the novel, Bingqiu is neither healthy nor romantic. And that this is not bad writing, but on purpose.

A relationship that drives one party to mental breakdown isn't healthy. A relationship where that party says it's okay to hurt or kill them can't possibly be healthy. That happened because there was something deeply wrong with their relationship, something that can't be reduced to Xin Mo, miscommunication, or LBH throwing a tropey yandere fit.

And out of all three MXTX novels, only SV lacks a love confession from the MC to the ML. Again, I don't think it's an oversight, or just because SQQ's face is too thin. There are plenty of ways MXTX could have worked a subtle one in if she really wanted to.

In my opinion, Bingqiu's narrative can be split up into four arcs: Qing Jing Peak (ch 1-27), Jin Lan City (28-43), Post-revival (29-55), and Reconciliation (56-81). Other than the first arc, where their relationship is pretty straightforward, Bingqiu spend most of the rest in direct conflict.

I'll give an overview of the arcs here, but what I truly want to say about Bingqiu starts in arc 4, so if you're impatient you can scroll down. But the overview might help add context.

Jin Lan City arc is about LBH's anger at being brutally betrayed by the one person he thought he could trust. Here he tries to force answers out of SQQ, who he believes both hates him and is a hypocrite. He's driven by a desire to return to the past, but his rage and love makes his actions contradictory: on one hand he tries to win SQQ's approval constructively, by climbing to the top of Huan Hua Palace and performing good deeds, on the other hand his belief that SQQ doesn't care about him so it's all futile anyway (reinforced by SQQ's own actions) causes him to lash out destructively, going as far as to hurt and imprison SQQ.

LBH's bitterness is portrayed very negatively, because all it does is instill despair into SQQ, until SQQ ends up believing that he's only been a blight on LBH's life, and that he must make up for it by killing himself. Whereupon LBH breaks down, regressing into a childlike state. Some might ask, why does LBH never bring up the Abyss again afterwards? It's because he gives up here. This entire arc is about getting LBH to let go of past wrongs and to stop seeking answers, whether the reader believes it's fair to him or not. Because SQQ's life is more important.

Post-revival arc then is about SQQ trying to come to terms with a blackened LBH who also loves him. Interestingly, despite SQQ's horror at realizing LBH was romantically interested in him all along, SQQ actually has a very subtle but telling secondary reaction. To explain, let's back up to the first arc.

Starting around ch 9, probably as a sign of his growing affection, SQQ begins addressing LBH as 这孩子, or "this child," in his internal monologue, instead of LBH's name. He does it once each in ch 9, 12, 17, 21, 25. However, once Jin Lan City arc starts, SQQ drops the address entirely. LBH and "child" are never brought up together except for one snarky comment on LBH's tantrum being disgracefully childish in ch 38.

At first glance this doesn't look noteworthy because LBH by this point is no longer a kid. But when LBH kisses him in ch 49, SQQ changes again: right away he returns to using "child" on LBH, and the "this child" address starts popping up at a much higher frequency. By the end of SV SQQ has referred to LBH as a child in some manner at least 35 times (yes I went and counted), with the vast majority after ch 49, and he continues to do so right into the last extra.

Why was SQQ unwilling to use this address of affection for over 20 chapters? Perhaps because he too thought LBH hated him, and couldn't bear to think about him so intimately knowing that. So SQQ immediately falling back into it the moment he learns LBH loves him is a sign of his relief. He's still dismayed at the romantic part, but though SQQ likes to deflect from his real emotions (this is the guy who focused on bad naming sense after being fatally poisoned, who cavalierly commented only after it was all over that he'd expected to die), the fact that LBH loves and doesn't hate him, means a lot.

Here SQQ's feelings towards LBH are at their most complicated. He still assumes the worst of him like in Jin Lan City, but now because of the above, also sees a lonely child whenever LBH is unhappy and lost. It's like he has two filters actively interfering with each other, "crazed criminal" and "pitiful child," and so he flip-flops between pushing LBH away and comforting him. But when LBH drags CQMS into it, and even seemingly takes advantage of SQQ's love for him, SQQ's negative image and frustration with him only grows, until he finally snaps and tells LBH to never come near him again.

At this point SQQ still believes that LBH is the same black-hearted, invincible, devil incarnate that og!LBH was portrayed to be. The Reconciliation arc starts by chipping away at this filter that's been plaguing SQQ for so long. First the revelation that TLJ/ZZL was behind the sowers, thus clearing LBH's name at Jin Lan City. Then we see how unloved he is by his own father; we see him injured and helpless and unconscious. Meng Mo yells at SQQ, reinforcing that image of a vulnerable, terrified child. So by ch 62 SQQ has thrown away the "crazed criminal" filter completely, and in that same chapter they cling to each other and finally make up. Because while it's true that the current LBH is misanthropic, antisocial, and mercurial, SQQ has also finally accepted that he's still the same LBH he'd raised and doted on, back on Qing Jing Peak.

Now I'm going to talk about what I see as the most important part of Bingqiu. Yes, despite the wall of text already.

A common sentiment of Bingqiu shippers about their issues seems to be, "SQQ is dumb and oblivious; he can't figure out what LBH needs even though he loves him because he sees LBH as a novel character," but I think the problem is far more complicated and insidious than that. If that was everything, why give SQQ the epiphany that he misunderstood LBH so early? Why have him think in ch 66 that "truthfully, he'd never really trusted Luo Binghe, and that's why he kept accidentally hurting him?" If he's already realized that he shouldn't treat LBH like og!LBH (he even meets og!LBH in ch 71 to rub it in further), why do we go another 13 chapters believing their relationship is good and well, even giving us a sweet, happy moment in ch 75, only to show LBH having the worst breakdown of the novel just 4 chapters later? Was it all just padding to demonstrate the danger of Xin Mo?

Or is there something else beneath the surface?

In ch 66, the same chapter where SQQ implies he doesn't want to accidentally hurt LBH anymore, he says something telling. When LQG is skeptical that LBH can be trusted, SQQ thinks, 家里孩子不懂事，大人不容易做, or "when your child doesn't know any better, as the adult you don't have it easy." The child here of course refers to LBH, and the adult is SQQ, who's complaining about smoothing over LBH's messes. But what is SQQ implying here?

Doesn't know any better? That's what you say about a toddler who can't think for themselves, not a grown man. LBH is 25 and SQQ thinks he doesn't know better. Doesn't know better about what? LBH's wants, his needs? His feelings? Or even what's good for him?

And then you realize that's exactly how SQQ's always treated him, like a helpless child who can't make his own choices.

It's SQQ who chooses to throw LBH down into the Abyss without trying to talk to him. It's SQQ who decides that keeping silent is the best choice. It's SQQ who believes self-destructing in front of LBH will help, who thinks that breaking off their relationship is for the better. And it's SQQ who scolds LBH into tolerating CQMS, even though they hate each other and CQMS is hostile towards him. Who forces him to leave first at Zhao Hua Temple despite LBH's pleas otherwise, who shoos him out the window when CQMS walks in on them.

Every single one of these decisions, SQQ made believing it was for the best (repair LBH's relationship with his family, help him avoid arrest, not wanting to make excuses, wanting LBH to be free of his hatred), and every single one of them only damaged LBH further. Because SQQ's never listened to him, even once. Never consulted him or considered his feelings.

(And LBH did try to bring up his feelings on one of the matters in ch 75. He insinuates to SQQ that he doesn't like LQG calling him "little beast" or "ingrate." And SQQ's response is to dismiss them entirely, saying that LQG's "not wrong.")

SQQ has always loved LBH, but he's never once respected LBH's agency or personhood. Because LBH doesn't know better and SQQ does, so SQQ must make all his decisions for him.

And this, amplified by Xin Mo, is what finally drives LBH mad in ch 79.

To LBH, the important part isn't whether SQQ loves him, which I think he knew after ch 43 (it's why he can be so daring and pushy with SQQ's boundaries). What's important is that the moment SQQ believes abandoning LBH is justified for whatever reason again, SQQ absolutely will.

Ch 80's two-way noncon (since LBH was basically unconscious and couldn't consent) tends to draw most of the attention, but I actually think that what happens afterwards is one of the most important scenes for Bingqiu. There SQQ tries to sacrifice himself a second time for LBH, drawing Xin Mo's demonic qi into his body. Yet the novel claims that SQQ's actions here are completely different than in ch 43. SQQ himself says that this time he's doing it for LBH, while last time he was doing it for himself. But can the reader see a functional difference?

There is one, in fact: it's SQQ's response to LBH's choice afterwards. LBH decides to follow SQQ in death, even though this would void the point of SQQ's sacrifice. But instead of insisting otherwise, SQQ just accepts it. Because he finally understands that whether LBH's life is worth living, whether LBH will be better off, is for LBH and only LBH to decide.

It's the first time he respects LBH's agency. And this is the only reason why he and LBH can finally begin building a healthy relationship on the mess they've had up to now.

So that's what I see as the true beauty behind Bingqiu. It's about communication and mistaken assumptions, yes, but it's also about the nature of love between parent and child. The romantic developments were left to the extras, I believe, because this was the main story MXTX wanted to tell with them. Their relationship as lovers only starts afterwards, hence why SV ends with, "the story between you and I, has only just begun." It was never meant to be a whirlwind romance where they fall in love cleanly. It might not to be to everyone's tastes, but an incredible amount of thought was put into the narrative, and that's what amazed me when I first finished this novel.

(This post went on way too long and I ended up cutting off a huge chunk of tangential stuff and how SQQ came to his realization in ch 79: he didn't do it alone. It took him seeing the LBH in TLJ and the himself in YQY for him to understand. In fact, YQY and og!SQQ's relationship has a similar parent-and-child dynamic. I've touched on it before on twitter; if there's interest I might try writing that up here too.)