#he is also tyrions powerful big brother

[ilynpilled]

i love how the moment jaime expresses real autonomy and conflicting desire both of them immediately reject him in some form

[visenyaism]

Okay I simply must ask, what are Cersei and Rhaegar’s kids Aegon and Rhaenys(? - I assume that’s what they called the other daughter) like? Do they get along with their sister?

hmmm i think Rhaenys inherits her father’s melancholy and solemn sense of purpose, but very practical. not a big believer in magic or prophecy. why would she be. that’s all reserved for her brother who is going to save the world that’s what everyone says. has a genuine passion for statecraft that no one in her life humors or encourages aside from the occasional books sent by her uncle tyrion or her grandmother rhaella on a quiet day who might listen to her and nod quietly. her mother loved her when she was a little porcelain dress up doll toddler but has little regard for her any older. shunted between being betrothed to her uncle viserys and her brother aegon depending on if her father or grandfather has more power at court but really she’d be happiest as like. master of laws in her own right. neutral towards her brother, has a healthy amount of disdain for visenya ii because rhaenys recognizes the same thing in her that exists in viserys and aerys and maybe also her father as in there’s something living within you that makes you destroy everything you touch. she doesn’t understand it and doesn’t want to.

Aegon is pretty messed up given that Cersei is trying to groom him into the perfect extension of herself prince-king she was never allowed to be and Rhaegar is trying to groom him into being the messiah. Don’t think he ever gets the chance to be his own person or develop a personality outside of crushing pressure that externalizes as arrogance. when his parents’ marriage falls apart and both of them are trying to win Aegon over to have him be like their puppet heir he crashes out, is not seen at court for six months, comes back wrong. Not close with either of his sisters, not even the one he’s engaged to, because he’s not really close with anyone. readily apparent that he cannot take off the mask or turn off the messiah prince persona because there is simply nothing underneath. if Dany brings back the dragons in this at all it’s definitely his death that does it.

[ladystoneboobs]

ya ever think about how the lannister sibs all have big secrets kept from each other, like huge life-altering experiences? jaime's is the most obvious, the most talked-about, with the full story of his kingslaying and everything he endured from aerys leading up to it. it's clear enough to me that brienne was the first he opened up to about that, including either sibling. they never asked, but unlike ned stark and the rest deriding him as kingslayer, their lack of curiosity is no offense in itself bc as tywin's other children they would never judge him for turning his cloak purely out of family loyalty. ned's assumption of jaime's motives is directly tied to his judgment of jaime, but it's the judgment that rankles jaime so. choosing your father's life over a king's is hardly the worst crime in itself. how can he explain all the other reasons without prompting when its not just about his crime but all his trauma too? is there any basis for that in his relationship with cersei, who always relied on him for comfort and consolation but seems less adept at providing the same to him? or even with tyrion, his only real male friend for years, but also his baby brother, the one he was meant to protect and take care of, who was only 10 at the time of the kingslaying? even to fully share all with tyrion years later, both adults, could be something of a role reversal, forever shattering tyrion's image of him as the strong invulnerable golden big brother by revealing his own broken inner child. jaime can't break out from those sibling roles and patterns, so neither can ever understand that part of him, never knowing the early life he had at court without either of them with him.

and tyrion, who trusted jaime more than anyone in the world before learning the truth about tysha, still could not confide in him freely even when all that trust was still intact. jaime must have heard some story of what tywin did to tysha to feel the need to confess his lie, but he def didn't hear it straight from tyrion bc imo there's no way he could still think confessing would help anything if he understood how scarred tyrion was by what he witnessed and esp not knowing that tywin ordered him to participate at the end. tyrion could reveal all that to bronn when they barely knew each other but not to his beloved brother, his first and best friend. how can the most abused child explain all his unknown abuse to the golden child, the big brother meant to protect him who couldn't always do so? how does he even begin to reveal the deepest trauma that happened to him when jaime wasn't in the room, esp when the story does start with jaime apparently trying to help him by fixing him up with tysha?

and then there's cersei and all her secrets. she always turned to jaime for consolation, or at least when he knew she needed it, but how many times did he not know? how personally could she confide in him as they grew older and their paths diverged? we know the first big secret was maggy the frog's prophecy, her first big scare, which came on the cusp of puberty, an experience she couldn't share with her twin bc he would prob just laugh and make a joke of it. in their first real scene together, in bran's pov, he mocks lysa's motherly fears and likens her to cersei. ("I think birthing does something to your minds. You are all mad." He laughed.) then he makes light of her marital discord, ("And whose fault is that, sweet sister?"), having no idea of the depth of pain she'd suffered from robert, beyond his infidelities. he later blames her for being robert's queen, not his, only thinking of how she managed to arrange his kg post, that power to forever tie him to her in secret, never grasping her lack of control in marriage, that "a queen is only a woman after all". in her pride it was hard to reveal all she'd suffered as a woman, but she also couldn't rely on jaime's response if he knew of her abuse, knowing he would kill robert and get himself killed too, only making her and their children's lives more precarious. she couldn't trust him to listen about securing the throne before dealing with robert or that as robert's victim it was her right to decide such matters, to choose his fate, not jaime's place to avenge her without her say-so first. all bc they were both too stuck in their idea of jaime as her sword, nothing more, with jaime determined to protect her and tyrion, always a bodyguard before he ever donned a white cloak.

something something tywin did his best to play his children off each other and the most effective thing he did to divide them was by setting jaime up as the golden child and family protector. the designated lannister sword only pointing at threats outside their house. a knight serving his family whose protection was always limited, who could never protect them from the person who first hurt cersei and tyrion and made them who they were at a distance from him, bc ofc he couldn't fight his own father, much less slay him with a sword.

something something maybe the reason that joff+marg+loras was a surer recipe for kingslayer stew than robert+cersei+jaime is all down to that tyrell lack of abusive structure. not that loras cared more about marg, was more willing to kill for her than jaime was to kill robert, but that there wasn't a chance of marg hiding her misery from him if/when her husband abused her in their shared household. it's not like he understood her to the point of mind-reading but when their previous royal marital household involved her bearding for his boyfriend then they prob had a pretty good basis of open communication. in that sense, the lannicest twins with all their sexual and physical intimacy still had less emotional intimacy than the tyrell queen and her kg brother.

[agentrouka-blog]

It's weird how often Catelyn's virginity comes up in the books (LF telling the entire court for years that he took her maidenhead to the point where the Lannister brothers use it to downplay her vritue and honor .... disgusting man). I wonder how that is going to come into play with Sansa, since she now knows that Baelish believed he slept with Cat but actually took Lysa's virginity. Also crazy that one man's word has this much reach :(

What I find interesting is how irrelevant it ultimately is. No one is running a big smear campaign maligning the morals of the Tullys and the North or laughing at Ned. The biggest leverage that Littlefinger gets out of it is underscoring the level of trust and influence he may have over them. Catelyn is aghast at the moment Tyrion brings it up but doesn't spare it much thought beyond that.

So GRRM is introducing this idea not for itself but for the overall concept.

Sansa isn't shocked when she hears this or reflects on it later, either.

You said it was my mother you loved. But of course Lady Catelyn was dead, so even if she had loved Petyr secretly and given him her maidenhood, it made no matter now. (ASOS, Sansa VI)

Really, it reveals something about the flexibility of social mores in the right context. If pregnancy isn't an issue, a lady's virtue is mostly a matter of individual opinion. If everyone agrees it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. If someone takes issue with it, it gains importance. The same subject comes up for Sansa with Mya Stone, for whom this lost virtue is more of an issue because of her bastard status and how public she was about her attachment to Mychel Redfort.

Brune would be a good match for a bastard girl like Mya Stone, she thought. It might be different if her father had acknowledged her, but he never did. And Maddy says that she's no maid either. [...] Mychel Redfort was the one. [...] Mychel was the best young swordsman in the Vale, and gallant . . . or so poor Mya thought, till he wed one of Bronze Yohn's daughters. Lord Horton gave him no choice in the matter, I am sure, but it was still a cruel thing to do to Mya."

This is, incidentally, the exact same scenario that Cat knew would come to pass back in AGOT, also not judging Mya. Cat never judged Lysa for her mystery affair, either. And, fittingly, neither girl withholds sympathy for Mya in this. Nor does Sansa judge Myranda for her affair with Marillion. Love and pleasure both are justification enough.

(Meanwhile, she doesn't make the argument to Littlefinger's molestation that it's immoral in terms of sexual conduct, but that he's a) married, and b) could have been her father, and c) pleading to be left alone.)

I think this is less important in and of itself than in what it implies about Sansa's view of sexual virtue, which is a great deal more liberal than some might expect in a world where physical virginity is officially prized and the mere act of copulation has the legal power to determine the validity of a marriage.

This is the same book where Margaery is subjected to a physical examination of her maidenly status - which everyone understands to be ridiculously devoid of sense, as a "maidenhead" is vulnerable to all kinds of physical activities, such as horseriding. But it becomes evidence in a case of high treason (adultery) where physical virtue is tied to matters of state.

The tension between official and legal expectations of virtue and tacit acceptance of indulgence - duty and love/desire - is likely to continue to play a role in Sansa's arc, and both in the sense of temptation and indulgence, and in the sense of hypocritical legal technicalities rearing their head.

[best-nun-tournament]

Round 1, Match 23

Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion Lannister (A Song of Ice and Fire) vs Torak (The Belgariad)

Propaganda under break

Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion Lannister

Cersei HATES Tyrion. Hes not a big fan of her either on account of her absolutely hating him. Cersei (and her twin Jaime, who is actually a good brother to Tyrion) were born a few years earlier than Tyrion, and blames him for "killing their mother," because she died in childbirth. Everyone in their family (except Jaime) hates Tyrion because he has dwarfism, but Cersei hates him more than anyone else and has wanted him dead since childhood. (spoilers beyond this point for the books and show both) When Cersei's son is killed, her immediate instinct is to blame Tyrion and throw him in jail. She does everything in her power to have him killed.

------

The incest for starters. The fact that Cersei doesn’t see Tyrion as human. All the backstabbing. And that they made their own family problems everyone else’s tragic backstory and present out of their own lust for power

------

here's a quote from one of tyrion's chapters: "When your sister cries, you were supposed to comfort her... but this was Cersei."

Torak

They stole an orb from their eldest brother and caused a centuries long war between his people and the people of his brothers. (They are all gods).

He's also just kind of a dick

[thevelaryons]

When it comes to Addam & Jaime’s storylines as knights, there is one specific idea which further connects them as pawns of the adults in their life.

Jaime was removed from the position as his family’s heir as an insult to Tywin. King Aerys and his Hand have a tense power dynamic. By taking away Tywin’s golden heir, it’s like a slap to the face for the proud Lord of Casterly Rock. Jaime, for his part, does not know that his sister’s machinations are used by the King to humble his father. All Tywin is left with is Tyrion, the heir he never wanted. It’s only later that Jaime figures out the reason why the King eagerly allowed him into the Kingsguard even if doing so angered Tywin, who later resigns from the position as Hand.

Shortly after Corlys became Hand to Rhaenyra, he moves to have Addam become the new heir to Driftmark. Addam’s half-brother, Jacaerys, even advocates for his appointment as heir. It’s a political move to appease Corlys, the proud Lord of Driftmark and the new Hand. It’s also a big insult to Queen Rhaenyra. A Westerosi noblewoman allowing her late husband’s bastard son to be ahead of her own trueborn son in their family’s line of succession (the actual parentage of the boys doesn’t matter, only the public perception of it) is practically unheard of. The Velaryon heir would have been Joffrey, since Jacaerys is already named heir to the Iron Throne at that point. Instead Addam becomes the new heir. Corlys’ actions show Rhaenyra the extent of his power and that she should not forget her place, even if she is the Queen. Addam obviously would not know about the subtle power struggle happening between the Queen and her Hand.

[atopvisenyashill]

What if Tywin died instead of Joanna?

i’m so mad i had a better structured answer and tumblr ate it so now this is super long and ranty. blame tumblr!!

anyways, i’m seeing three scenarios here

everyone is better off

the twins are still Doing That but tyrion is better off, so probably everything is still better off

aerys loses his absolute mind bc joanna is single now

while i imagine joanna does engage jaime to elia - and this is probably a much happier outcome for both of them, because joanna would have attempted to put a stop to the incest, up to and including sending cersei to foster somewhere else - i do think cersei is a huge question mark. she is often the instigator of their problems!

not to lay the respsonibility at her feet or anything, bc she experiences shit in her childhood that is enough to damage most people’s psyches (losing a parent that young and to childbirth is hard developmentally not to mention a fucked up prophecy hanging over her head & potential issues with empathy already!) and then experiences decades of spousal abuse, and is then given near unlimited power and told “now don’t do anything crazy lol” like, of course cersei decides “if i have to live in hell i’m taking these two idiots with me what are baby brothers FOR after all” and if you want them to have a chance at normalcy in adulthood, the key is for cersei to have a less traumatic time so she has half a chance at adjusting to the regular stressors of life. the main way to do this is to get her away from jaime and away from any terrible prophecies that trigger some sort of fucked up neurosis in her from an early age.

now, we don’t know who joanna had in mind for cersei, if she had even thought that far, but being lady regent of the west, she’s going to have significant control over who cersei marries. if she sends cersei away to foster somewhere to get her away from jaime, shes got a wide range of possibilities and if someone reaches out to her to get involved in their lil rebellion, she might take the opportunity to send cersei somewhere quite far, like riverrun or the eyrie or dorne or the fucking north, so long as it’s right now immediately & the distance might do cersei some good but equally possible cersei takes this as rejection and turns on her mother; though, if she’s spending her adolescent years somewhere with a healthier dynamic (and the bar is in hell) maybe cersei isn’t so paranoid. but that’s ONLY IF joanna is healthy enough & aware enough to send cersei away when she’s like 8 or 9. it’s a big if.

then there’s the tyrion of it all - i think joanna warms up to him eventually and cersei being elsewheres means he’s probably better off. at the very least, there’s less conflict if jaime married elia and had heirs like he was supposed to wrt tyrion, and Joanna may even attempt some matchmaking for him and can do that without the added stress of “he is disabled and also inheriting casterly rock” bc like, i’m not saying joanna would take the same hardline stance but i AM saying she saw something to love in fucjing TYWIN, and i don’t think she’s a saint who would unequivocably embrace her disabled son. BUT i don’t think she’d shame him or abuse him the way tywin does either. tyrion grows up in a family all similar to jaime; they certainly aren’t always respectful, frequently patronizing, dismissive, and tyrion is likely to get resentful at times (who wouldn’t) but i think everyone can agree that a household full of “i know they mean well but they don’t understand what it’s like” is an improvement over whatever the fuck tywin was doing.

all of this means…maybe the twins are married elsewhere when robert gains his throne potentially after KL goes boom since Jaime isn’t there to whack Aerys, but potentially after a much easier rebellion because dorne sided with the rebels, house lannister sides with the rebels, and they coup aerys the fuck out of there a bit easier. robert probably marries a tyrell or a hightower (there’s a few of marriage age and they’re rich) in that case. the realm is a lot better off lmao. OR cersei isn’t married yet (she’s still a lil young admittedly) and does marry robert. probably still attempts to pull jaime to her but joanna knows this is happening and is more inclined to stop it, especially with jaime married to elia, her best friend’s daughter and the beloved sister of the now prince of dorne. this probably causes a lot of problems ergo scenario two, but i do think a world where jaime or joanna is in charge of casterly rock, even a world where the incest still exists, is a world that is miles better off just bc joanna isn’t going to ignore the problem like tywin, and tyrion being even marginally less fucked up is a net win.

OR like i worried above, aerys starts a war for joanna. i mean, petyr started a war over his obsession with cat & sansa, it is not out of the realm of possibility that aerys “burning the lord paramount and his heir alive is fine actually” targaryen goes “joanna comes to court or i set casterly rock on fire” and that’s not really good for ANYONE.

so anyways if joanna lives it’s probably fine, probably even better actually, or maybe, everyone dies on fire. typical westeros really.

[jedimaesteryoda]

"House Westerling has its pardon, and your brother Rolph has been made Lord of Castamere. -AFFC, Jaime VII

It seems Sybell Westerling made sure to get as big a piece of the pie for her family as she could. She didn't just stop at her own children, getting marriages to heirs for her daughters and an apparent good match for her son, but she also made sure her own house, the Spicers, were taken care of by having her brother Rolph Spicer made Lord of Castamere. Castamere was a rich plum which the family that once occupied it the resources to be the second most powerful family in the Westerlands.

The just takes into account what happened to the previous Lords of Castamere.

"The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck Hall and Castamere," Tyrion pointed out. "You'd think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there." -ASOS, Tyrion III

The Reynes had once allied with House Tarbeck with Ellyn Tarbeck having once briefly ruled the Rock and showered the Reynes with offices, honors and lands. They rebelled against House Lannister to displace them as Lords Paramount of the Westerlands, but their ambition ultimately proved to be their undoing.

Tywin sealed the entrances to the mines that made up 90% of the castle, and then diverted a nearby stream into the mines, drowning all those below. Their name has been often punned with "rain," and so in a bit of tragic irony, the Reynes died by water.

Eventually, Tywin's son who was much his image, Tyrion, will come back to the westerlands to claim Casterly Rock from his sister Cersei who is much the hot-tempered, ambitious woman Ellyn Tarbeck was. House Spicer also owes its place to the Lannister regime in King's Landing, and that means if King's Landing falls, so do they as they were complicit in the Red Wedding.

Much of the castle including the mines that gave Castamere much of its wealth are flooded, and what remains above is in ruins. While Rolph may not have to worry about being flooded out, the keep above has its own vulnerability.

Tyrion won't be coming alone, he will be bringing a queen with three dragons. Spice often has been associated with heat, making dishes hot and many come from the east. In a fate just as ironic as the previous Lords of Castamere, House Spicer dies by fire, specifically dragonfire brought from the east.

[waitingforwinterwinds]

A Clash of Kings - 32 SANSA III (pages 440-448)

Joffrey has Sansa stripped and beaten in front of the court until Tyrion steps in.

-

"Tell me what I've done." "Not you. Your kingly brother."

ah. damn. That's not good. This is going to be an entire proxy thing, and Joffrey is not going to be in any kind of mood to be emotionally readjusted.

"Using some vile sorcery, your brother fell upon Ser Stafford Lannister with an army of demon wargs, not three days ride from Lannisport. Thousands of good men were butchered as they slept, without the chance to lift sword. After the slaughter, the northmen feasted on the flesh of the slain."

wow. That's impressive how much bullshit it takes to soothe your ego. "oh they can't have beaten us by normal means, we're too awesome to fall to anything less than sorcery and treachery UwU"

Oh and listen to this boy brag about killing a starving peasant.

"Leave her face," Joffrey commanded. "I like her pretty." ... "Boros, make her naked."

Oh! there's the scene, iirc they moved this in the show, to when Tyrion first arrived at King's Landing, it was his big hero entrance. I think I actually commented when he showed up during the Dontos at the birthday party scene, instead of this one.

Also: holy shit that's brutal, this is so many kinds of assault.

This is an el- no she's... twelve? now? Irrelevant, this is a literal child they are publicly stripping and beating. She should not have to go through this. No one should. No, you know what?

Suddenly, the Iron Throne exploded, the swords which had comprised it rending apart and flying through the room, slaying Joffrey and is minions where they stood, but leaving Sansa unharmed. "What the fuck?" Tyrion asked from the door, but Sansa could only stare in horror. "Right... Not drunk enough for this," Tyrion decided, and had Sansa gently escorted back to her rooms. ... "And then what happened m'lord?" Shae asked as Tyrion brushed her hair in their villa. "And then I messaged Robb and arranged an exchange of prisoners, Sansa is on her way to be traded for Jaime, and my father is on his way here to be hand, and I am going to be lord of Casterly Rock. What do you say, would you like to be a lady?" "Mmmm, alright."

And so everyone lived happily ever after, and Arya made her way home in a slightly unrelated adventure and the girls were never harmed, or scared, or hungry ever again.

"What is the meaning of this?"

Yep, there's Tyrion, here to use his powers (invulnerability to the normal side-effects of mocking and berating the king) for Good.

"Someone give the girl something to cover herself with," the Imp said. Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her skin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine.

I imagine that's the relief. The fact that this is signalling that you're safe again for the time being, both physically and mentally giving you something to hold onto.

"I am not threatening the king, ser, I am educating my nephew. Bronn, Timmet, the next time Ser Boros opens his mouth, kill him." The dwarf smiled. "Now that was a threat, ser. See the difference?" Ser Boros turned a dark shade of red. "The queen will hear of this."

and yet I notice a distinct lack of Boros being killed in the following moments.

Ohhh, hello? no "i'm loyal to my beloved Joffrey" "Sansa you may outlive us all" moment? She's in shock and suffering emotionally, instead of having a moment of quiet girlboss? Oh right, GRRM does foreshadowing and character growth like an actual writer instead of ... whatever the heck D&D were doing. "but we had her be tough and sassy for a whole line here, that's totally foreshadowing for- oh no, we've foreshadowed too much and now everyone will know our plan! The one that we don't even know!!"

"You have a right to know why Joffrey was so wroth. -"

oh my gosh, what is happening? someone giving Sansa valid information? Making sure she knows what's going on? Treating her like a person and not a mushroom?! (Kept in the dark and fed shit) Oh my gosh, this is, I need a moment.

Don't think this will make me ship you two, Tyrion. (One thing I did enjoy about season 8 was the 'amicably divorced still friends' energy they had for about a scene, I feel like that should be their relationship goal, it's just a pity they couldn't skip the 'married' part of the divorce.)

The sad thing is, that in so far as it goes, Tyrion is the closest thing Sansa has to a genuine ally, if only because Tyrion can see more tan Joffrey how the war is going to affect things, and because he's not a total monster. (I'm likely going to be taking this back later when we get in his brain space after the wedding, I'm aware.)

Not that Dontos isn't trying, but... I get the vibe that he wants something, and that's not just because he was working for Petyr in the show. Sandor also, seems like an ally, but again, he clearly wants something, the same something. (we're not even going to pretend like Petyr is subtle. And who knows what Varys wants, they all pawns to him, and I don't even think he's playing chess.)

At the moment, Tyrion is more interested in how Sansa can help stop the war, which let's be honest, isn't very much, this is way bigger than her now, and Tyrion has Shae to keep his other interests.

You know, I think reading this scene, it really helped that I knew help was coming, because I don't think I would have done well otherwise. Joffrey and 'friends' certainly would have found themselves dying in a few more spontaneous AUs.

And she's still determined to go to the Godswood, still holding on to the hope that she can get out of there. She is being so brave, and enduring so much, and not breaking.

[carmelide]

Wang Lin and Tywin Lannister

the parallels between wang lin and tywin lannister genuinely need to be studied. they're such similar characters, on the surface, but if you delve deeper into their characters you'll find a huge dissimilarity between them.

wang lin, despite all his glaring faults, genuinely loves his family. when a'wu came to visit him and left upon realising su'er and jinruo weren't there, he was very clearly devestated. when he and wang su were in the prison, he swore that they would have vengeance (and even though the union between huan mi and wang su was a catastrophic mistake, wang lin wed them together because he wanted wang su to be with a woman of his choice; something WL had been deprived of.) and, when jinruo died, anyone with working eyes could see the man was devestated (and even before that, he does genuinely love her. romantically, i still don't know, but his care for her was undeniable. that night where she demands the truth from him before his ancestors and he, knowing he cannot lie to her, admits he poisoned the emperor and even waits for her to kill him...he deffo feels something towards her.)

the thing that i have taken away from wang lin's character is this; it is evident that he loves his family, but he simply loves power more. he, like tywin, puts so much value on legacy- but unlike tywin (or maybe still alike depending on how you view the latter), WL believes that he is protecting his family by making all of these chess moves (which, to an extent, i understand. the emperor means to supress the wangs and of course wang lin, despite being his brother in law, cannot possibly stand by and watch that happen.)

another difference between tywin and wang lin is that whereas i feel confident calling WL a morally grey antagonist, tywin is a cold, calculating, loveless hardass™️ antagonist and graduated from Big Bad Guy University. that man only truly cared for joanna and i doubt he cared for anyone else. one could argue for his affections towards his children, but tywin didn't love or care for them at all in my opinion.

in regards to jaime, i think tywin loves what jaime represents and what he represents his the heir to casterly rock. his golden child. his future; his legacy. he loves what jaime could accomplish, what jaime could achieve; he loves what jaime could be (the future lord of casterly rock and warden of the west) but not what he is (an infatuated, impulsive kingsguard who has no desire to play the game). i think tywin's "favourite" child is most definitely cersei as she's the most accomplished out of all his children; the most powerful woman (and at times, most powerful person) in the seven kingdoms, mother to the future king and a lioness through and through. she definitely inherited tywin's traits the most, but her downfall is her madness (probably due to inbreeding or maybe she was bonked as a child idk) and, again, her recklessness and impulsivity are what disappoint tywin; cersei believes she can play the game, but she cannot. also, misogyny.

then there's tyrion. good god, where to begin. even though tywin is an intelligent man, he blames the death of his wife on tyrion who was an infant when his mother passed. he blames tyrion not because it was his fault (after all, it is logistically impossible for a newborn infant to kill a grown woman), but because he needs something to blame. for the most part, tywin is a logical man and only behaves illogically when he's emotional. his hatred of tyrion is a purely emotional one (though the man doesn't make himself any better by drinking and whoring so i'll give tywin some leeway there) and i think, to tywin, that tyrion is the antithesis of everything a lannister should be.

tywin only cares for his children when it suits him. he tries to get tyrion back from catelyn because if he doesn't, he will appear incompetent. he does the same with jaime for the same reasons (and because he needs his heir). he cares for cersei because it is in his best interest to do so, as she is the queen. if tywin truly loved his children, he would have clocked onto jaime/cersei's ways sooner. he would have found a way to quell cersei's madness and cruelty (or at least help her mask it better). hell, he would have remarried! tywin was only in his thirties when joanna died and i am positive of the fact that hundreds of lords and noblemen would have jumped at the chance for their daughters, sisters, nieces etc. to wed the lord paramount of the westerlands. if he truly wished to further his legacy, he should have just had more kids!

sorry, this has kinda devolved into me criticising tywin as an antagonist rather than comparing him to wang lin so compare i shall! tywin, firstly, is a terrible judge of character; the best example of this is him misjudging tyrion and thinking that the man wouldn't kill him for whatever fucking reason. in contrast, wang lin makes the astute observation (though it is moreso a jab at wang su than a compliment to his daughter) that she has a curiousity that could rival any man, or something along those lines. for the most part, wang lin is on the money for many characters in the story. the only person he misjudges is xiao qi, which he later admits.

a similarity between WL and TL is the fact that they both believe themselves to be acting in the best interests of their families (though i feel WL is a little bit more sincere, at least initially.) the reality of this, however, is that their goals are selfish and the only thing they seek to further/elevate is themselves. this, coupled with their hubris and the under-estimating of their enemies (who, arguably, needn't have been enemies in the first place), is what leads to their downfalls.

honestly, this was very disorganised and muddled and had no clear direction but i just needed to rant about how alike their characters are and for somebody - ANYBODY - to agree with/discuss this with me!

[visenyaism]

i'm desperately interested in your lannister in the walls symbolism essay if that's something you would like to share

you know what i would. like all my summer 2022 notes app archival material it is both deranged and very informal. but i had just read cersei i affc for the very first time and i was convinced i was cooking something up. Here’s the intro the rest of it is under the cut so it’s not a scrolling nightmare:

so my like big tinfoil theory ab this so far is that the walls and tunnels of kings landing represent like the cataclysmic institutional rot that will destroy the city because said rot is also the truth of it. The little birds who convey the truth to varys while also representing how fucked up this place is because they’re child servants with their tongues cut out. Also like how the doom of valyria was in its walls because the enslaved were literally in there and bc that evil was institutional. Also like the rot that consumed tywin lannister whole cause he’s kings landing in microcosm or whatever. the doom of kings landing is quite literally in the walls cause of the wildfire, and because it’s wildfire it is also LITERALLY the doom of valyria. Just like the Doom was a lot of fireworks but it’s real downfall was the true extent of its rot filling every space in the walls and under the empire, the walls and tunnels of KL are also the Lannister Cognitive Dissonance Basement.

Tywin’s Hypocrite Tunnel reveals the truth of who he was the entire time. Tyrion learns the worst truth of his life in the tunnels, and then comes up thru the Hypocrite tunnel to kill his dad and also he decides to be evil while he’s down there because he thinks that’s the truth about himself, that the rot is also his. But that’s like our mini doom of valyria, that everything tywin hated about himself as well as the people he wronged he shoved underneath the city until it came up and explosively killed him.

Cersei starts her flop for crows arc by in tandem refusing to go into the tunnel or think abt its purpose while refusing to acknowledge any of her father’s flaws. The Tyrion in her head that’s taunting her about being in the walls is the same voice that’s confronting her abt the truth she is repressing abt her father. She knows her doom is in the walls and under the city, but she thinks it’s tyrion when actually it’s the threat of every single truth she has ever repressed to form her delusional worldview coming back to destroy her (the truth that the rot is hollow and pursuit of tywin’s kind of power means nothing but self destruction and also that her mirror was the one who might kill her and not the brother she thinks is different from her in every way). I dont think shes going into the walls until it’s time for her to blow the city up tbh. apocalypse!!!!

Side note: the tyrion in her head being cersei especially is so. like for the past three books we have been told that cersei lannister’s main trait is her pride and vanity. and then you get to her first POV and it’s immediately clear that everything she hates about herself, her father, and the world she attributes to tyrion and everything she likes about herself she assigns to something she inherited from her father, something jaime should be, or both. queenhood and womanhood and her own body are just coffins her family has stuffed her in to fit their own needs. For cersei, the body is a construct just like the Red Keep is, and it is a prison!!! it’s the cage they kept the lions in under Casterly!!! The power she’s constantly chasing after is just the ability to be taken seriously in her own right, respected as a person and not a woman (which to her are antonyms). What presents as her pride and vanity from the outside is actually just a constant battle against the reality that cersei lannister doesn’t really exist because she has absolutely no stable sense of identity and is just as empty as the rest of her family!!!!

Back to the walls: Jaime has a running theme where he can only speak or think the truth if he’s underground, like harrenhal bath moment or taunting catelyn abt bran and the incest in the riverrun dungeon or telling tyrion about tysha in the black cells or his dream in the cave with brienne where he’s like it’s dark out so i can tell the truth abt her being a beauty and a knight. It’s the same with the tunnels. He starts HIS flop for crows arc going in first to the Tywin Hypocrite Tunnel, and has to confront the truth that he doesn’t actually know his brother like he thought he did, or his sister, or his father, or himself really. Also that he’s kind of responsible for their father’s murder. ALSO he finds a dragon mosaic that he thinks is rhaegar, telling him “I know you, kingslayer.” He has SO many repressed truths come up in this tunnel, but he just comes out and is like lol who knows what’s down there not me whoever did this could still be down there look out.

Not that it would’ve been smart to tell Cersei the truth, but it definitely indicates that during Jaime’s feast arc he will not be confronting anything unpleasant because he doesn’t want to. Pushing the truth of yourself away and into the walls and under the city means you can be somewhere (the red keep) without really being there at all, which I think is the connection to Jaime’s dependence on dissociation and going away inside and his relationship to institutions. The details of why he didn’t say anything about the wildfire aren’t super clear but I think him hunting the pyromancers but leaving wildfire in the walls is representative of the fact that on some level deep down he believes in false knighthood, that you really can solve institutional rot if you are Good, if you do enough Heroic Sword Violence to the right people. Lady Stoneheart is in a cave or something I think so that’s his big underground inability to repress anymore-related downfall looming.

So anyway TLDR: Cersei’s right, there’s something those walls and under the city that’s going to destroy them all. It’s not tyrion lurking, but like the irrepressible truth that the rot and evil at the heart of the red keep has eaten it whole, and that the Lannister legacy and conception of power propped up by violence and intimidation is just hollow. That’ll get them because that singular truth is enough to crumple everyone’s self-concept and is too much to overcome even with the Lannister dedication to cognitive dissonance. Which is why I think Cersei blows it up when she gets to the point where she cannot lie to herself abt shit anymore. If twow drops and actually joncon ends up starting the Great King’s Landing BBQ of 301 AC i actually didn’t say any of this😌

[jaimeshonorhardon]

nah cuz a The Boys/Gen V modern au for asoiaf

Jaime finally breaking out of The Seven and airing out how shitty Robert, cersei, euron, and some other fucked up asoiaf characters are and Rhaegar (could be in the seven but he seems more of a silent evil working the big picture and would be good for seeming like the lovely and trusting CEO ) or Tywin being the head of Vought and Tyrion, LF, or Varys being the Ashley almost 😂

And then there’s the Gen V kids of the young cast

Brienne a reporter that works with Sandor (man says cunt enough to be our Butcher and he hates supes because his supe brother The Mountain murdered his family and mamed him) and then they rope in Ned cuz he was roberts bestie until the supe life got his sister killed in some mystery invoking Robert and rhaegar

and dany could be a good Starlight!!! But like less pathetic but still the same vibe of I actually don’t need useful powers to take you down bitch but also she’d be a good marie with the whole blood and coming from being a homeless orphan but maybe we add a flash of fire which harks but to her crazy dead supe fathers power of (green anyone?) fire

[agentrouka-blog]

Another plot of the show of Aegon giving to Cersei. The war in wich Cersei and Jaime twart Tyrion. Not happening in books since the Lannisters are a spent force losing men in the Riverlands to the Brotherhood and Nymeria.

Now the Golden Company, the friends in The Reach and the fresh armies of Dorne on the Other hand vs dragons, unsullied and dothraki.

I can definitely agree with that. The actual power conflict is going to have to be between Aegon and Daenerys, Dance of Dragons 2.0, because there is not much drama in Dany wresting power from the politically weakened daughter of the guy who ordered her niece and nephew slain, but there is a lot of very poignant drama in Dany torching the actual hope for a Targaryen restoration because it doesn't involve her own butt on the spiky chair. The show created a shallow endgame conflict because they erased too many characters to make it work.

That said, I think it would be a big missed opportunity if Tyrion and his siblings weren't involved in some kind of confrontation. I have trouble finding the post, but I know I have speculated in the past that a defeated and cornered Cersei and Jaime may end up choosing death out of the mistaken assumption that Aegon will deal with them the way Tywin did with his mother and sister. While Aegon and Tyrion may actually both be involved in negotiations that might have saved their lives. Another tribute to Tywin's toxic legacy. It would devastate Tyrion if he had tried and failed to save his brother (if not his sister), and it would create a sordid bookend to the way Ned had offered Cersei a chance to escape Robert's wrath in the beginning of the series, only for her to choose war.

It would also add fuel to the fire of the conflict between the "dragons", while removing any patina of glorification by hammering home the destructive futility of it all.

[thaliajoy-blog]

Personal best ASOIAF quotes - part 2 (in no particular order)

⭐ "The stone is strong, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the kings of winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. I'm not dead either" (Bran Stark)

👉 don't let anyone tell you that Asoiaf is a nihilistic, dark, edgy universe. It is anything but. These last words of the second book, after so much misery has already happened to our dear protagonists, are full of hope. The world is broken but not dead, not dying. It can still be mended.

⭐ "Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and as he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name." (Daenerys visions)

👉 way to talk about a character and to sell him to you, peak romanticism. Poetic ✨. Rhaegar would have liked it.

⭐ "You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert. You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath." (Ned Stark)

👉 also superb and poetic (there's a good rhythm to that last sentence, it sounds just right, just like what it means should sound like). Adds to the sense of mystery around Lyanna & the fascination this other dead but romantic figure of the past can evoke in us. The binary between what Ned knew & what Robert knew.

⭐ "Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law. Yet that day on the steps of Baelor's sept, our godly High Septon and your queen regent and your ever-so-knowledgeable servant were as powerless as any cobbler or copper in the crowd. Who truly killed Eddard Stark, do you think ? Joffrey, who gave the command ? Ser Illyn Payne, who swung the sword ? Or...another ?

[...] Power resides where men believe it resides. No more, no less [...] A shadow on the wall. Yet shadows can kill. And oftimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

(Varys the Spider)

👉 the classic, of course. I always like these kind of things in fiction, essentially saying that the world's rules are based on complete illusions, that we live and we play in a world whose rules we could control but actually cannot, or at least not yet. Although given his ulterior motives it's possible that Varys is completely kidding with Tyrion there ça and severely underselling his part in Ned Stark's death and the unravelling chaos of Westeros.

⭐ "The world was simpler in those days, and men as well as swords were made of finer steel." (Jaime Lannister)

👉 peak nostalgia here, and that's also a big theme of the book. The idea that the world has gone off balance since their youth, because events happened, choices were made, people died that should not have, innocence was lost, people grew to be worse or to reveal themselves to be worse...the longing for the past is a sort of trauma response.

⭐ "You are her perfect prince, agreed, bright and bold and comely as any maid could wish. Daenerys Targaryen is no maid, however. She is the widow of a Dothraki khal, a mother of dragons and a sacker of cities, Aegon the Conqueror with teats. She may not prove as willing as you wish.

[...]

I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half-mad... a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere upon the grass, her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen are proof enough of that. She has survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandaled feet." (Tyrion Lannister)

👉 this speech Tyrion makes remind you of how good with words he is, how perceptive he is, a good guesser, and also gives you chills hearing about the brazen brilliance of Daenerys' story. Most of the nuances of her life are there.

⭐ "When Jaime opened his eyes, he found himself staring at the stump of his sword hand. The hand that made me Kingslayer. The goat had robbed him of his glory and his shame, both at once. Leaving what? Who am I now ?" (Jaime Lannister)

👉 like this idea of a "tabula rasa" : Jaime by this "sacrifice" is now opened to new possibilities, by losing something he is gaining the chance to find other futures than what he (hadn't) imagined. So of course, major identity crisis at 30 and so...leading us to some of the best stuff in ASOIAF.

[a-libra-writes]

Game of Thrones Imagine - Being a Widow with a Child

In this preference, you'll be with: Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Sansa Stark, Jon Snow, Benjen Stark, Jory Cassel, Mance Rayder, Eddison Tollett, Theon Greyjoy, Yara Greyjoy, Victarion Greyjoy, Daenerys Targaryen, Jorah Mormont, Missandei, Grey Worm, Tywin Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Sandor Clegane, Bronn of Blackwater, Petyr Baelish, Robert Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon, Davos Seaworth, Margaery Tyrell, Brynden Tully, Edmure Tully, Brienne of Tarth, Ramsay Bolton, Roose Bolton, Oberyn Martell, Doran Martell, Arianne Martell

This is going along with the lore that highborn widows with sons are allowed to stay at their deceased husband's keep and rule it until their son is of age! Tho there's some daughters too. IDK this was just in my brain.

Ned Stark

He’s a family man, so he finds your devotion to your daughter charming and attractive. When you married, he allowed your daughter to come along to Winterfell; he couldn’t imagine parting her from her mother. And a nice bonus is that she’s around Jon and Robb’s age, so she could have siblings right away. Though it’s a strange household — a “bastard” son, a son from his first marriage, a step-daughter and eventually a child with you — Ned’s heart swells when he sees you together with all of them. Oh, and Ned would never admit it, but… your soft body and even the stretchmarks are very attractive to him.

Robb Stark

While it’s unconventional for Robb to be marrying a widow, you’re still young and your child is a daughter, so there’s no “threat” to the Starks by her coming along (and Robb would never separate you from her, anyway). He’s unsure for just a day before he quickly takes to her. He has plenty of siblings, after all, and Robb tries to get Rickon to play nice with her. He’d probably be seen as more of a big brother than a real father to her, which Robb is fine with. He plans to do right by her and make sure she’s comfortable in Winterfell — also, it’s adorable how she trails after you.

Sansa Stark

At one point all Sansa could daydream about was being in your position: Married with a child, but now she’s not so naive. She understands you’ve been through a lot, having to protect your child through a war and manage a household that didn’t fully respect you. You take full advantage of the power widowhood gives you, even if it’s temporary. At least it allows you and Sansa to visit, and for you to protect her. As for your son, she’s quite fond of him, though sometimes his smile pulls at her heart because she thinks of her brothers. She’s delighted every time he slips up and calls her “auntie”.

Jon Snow

He has a lot of hang-ups about having children and fatherhood, as you know. Being around your child made him nervous, even if the boy just wanted to play with Jon and look at Ghost. He knew wildlings had different “rules” about these things, but… his heart melts when you care for the boy and he’s treated no different than the other children around. When you talk about the father, Jon is surprised you aren’t upset or ashamed. He thought wildlings lived unhappy and hard lives, but you both challenge that idea. Jon starts to get more attached than he’d like to admit.

Benjen Stark

He always has a little treat tucked away in his cloak for your boy, though you’ve teased Benjen about spoiling him. Your late husband’s keep is one of many places Benjen looks for recruits, so he’s seen your child grow up over several years. And he’s quite popular, with his unusual clothes and tales of the wall. It makes Benjen sentimental to talk to the boy; he’ll start to miss his nieces and nephews in Winterfell. He wonders what it would be like if you could meet them, since he’s quite interested in you. Oh, well. He’s not a man of regrets, so he treasures the moments he gets with you and your child.

Jory Cassel

Jory is surprised he’s marrying at all, let alone a lady of your station. You being widowed doesn’t trouble him, in fact, he wonders if you’re really alright with the arrangement. He wants to make sure your daughter is okay, too! Jory would never imagine separating you two, and while he’s awkward at first, you notice he’s a natural with kids — It must be from all the years of corralling the Stark children. You can tell Jory is very happy with your little family.

Mance Rayder

He’s enamored right away because before he joined the wildlings, never would he had imagined a woman trying to spear him while also carrying a child on her back. Now that you both know each other, there’s less spearing and more Mance humming a tune while your babe falls asleep. He gives you both a soft look when he does that, and you wonder if it’s because crows aren’t allowed wives or children. While Mance is on good enough terms with the curious and rough wildling children in camp, your child is the one who likes to ride on his shoulders on top of his red and black cloak.

Eddison Tollett

Edd grew up with younger siblings and some cousins, so he’s used to being around kids… it has been a while, though. He’s a bit amused by you, a wildling woman carrying around her sassy child on her back. Edd likes to complain about the boy raising hell, but he lets the kid get away with stuffing snowballs in Alliser Thorne’s boots. His interest in you doesn’t heighten or lessen because of a kid, though the boy certainly likes to follow him around. The other Brothers tease him about it, but Edd doesn’t mind too much. Beats sitting alone and talking to the horses.

Pre-Reek!Theon

He never cared much about the brats that ran around Winterfell, and he probably didn’t notice your son until he saw the both of you together. A visit from a pretty girl was rare enough, but a local widowed lady? That was interesting. Theon assumed you were trying to get favor with the Starks — specifically Robb — but he’d still flirt. Watching you be loving with your son stirs a lot of bitter, confusing and even jealous feelings in him. Obviously he’s not going to unpack all that.

Yara Greyjoy

The fact you have a brat at your heels doesn’t deter her attraction to you. She probably wouldn’t pay much mind to the child unless they were exceptionally clever — she outright laughs when they try to tell Yara off for flirting with you. She’s amused if your child begins to idolize her for being a captain, especially if the child was a girl. And when you interact with your child, Yara could almost call it… cute. And she rarely uses that word! The closer you both become, the more she’s like an older sister or cool aunt to your child.

Victarion Greyjoy

When Victarion finds out you’re a widow and not married, he has to physically restrain his relief and happiness. Good, no competition. If she’s a girl, she’ll be allowed to live alongside you on Pyke and little would be expected of her. If he’s a boy, that might be trickier. Victarion might be able to bring him to Pyke and raise him as his own, especially if you were a saltwife. The boy would never be considered a true Greyjoy, but he could still follow the Ironborn way and rise in the society. If you didn’t want your son to be Ironborn, well … sorry about that. Victarion wouldn’t admit it, but he’d like to watch you interact with your kiddo. It gives him a sad nostalgia he can’t quite place.

Daenerys Targaryen

She’s already fond of children, and since she adores you, she attaches herself fairly quickly to your child. She loves finding the similarities in your faces, and watching you play together. Sometimes it’s a bittersweet feeling; she thinks of her own loss and her childhood. But most times you can tell how delighted she is with your child running toward her excitedly, presenting flowers or some such gift. Half the time she doesn’t even need dragons to impress them; they like to sit in her lap and play with her silver hair or stare at her crown. When Daenerys is officially together with you, you both easily fall into parenting your child together.

Jorah Mormont

As if he wasn’t already weak for you… Jorah just adores how you interact with your child, showing them the wonders of Essos, the Khaleesi’s dragons in the sky, making sure they’re comfortable on top of a horse. His heart pounds when the child runs to him for something, and you look at him with such warmth. He’s already daydreaming about the three of you being a family, the thing he thought he missed his chance on. He’ll act paternal without even thinking about it.

Missandei

She was immediately charmed by your child, and the easy, sweet relationship you both had. Missandei can’t remember her mother, but she’s seen many slave and free children be abused through her life. Because of that and because of Missandei’s love for you, she’s always been sweet to your child. She’s happy to teach them languages or history when she has time. No matter how affectionate your kiddo is to her, she doesn’t believe how special she is to them until they called her “sister” or “auntie”. Even when you both were together, Missandei wondered if your child would ever accept her. She could cry once they consider her family.

Grey Worm

Given his and the Unsullied’s upbringing, Grey Worm never thought he’d have a chance to see a normal mother and child relationship. He watches you both with awe and fascination, standing far away so he doesn’t startle the child. Though the child is more likely to startle Grey Worm with his shrieks of delight and running around. Even when you tell Grey Worm he can play games with your child, he’s nervous about doing so, worried he’ll mess up in some way. Once you rope him into spending time with the two of you, he feels a sense of peace he never expected. Visits with you and your child quickly become Grey Worm’s biggest comfort.

Tywin Lannister

In all honesty, he would ignore your daughter for the most part, especially if she was younger. It was already highly unusual that he married a widow with a child; that child in question is certainly an outsider at Casterly Rock, unless you take great steps to educate her and bring her to court. She’ll have finery, but little warmth, unless it’s from you or some friends she manages to make. Even if she’s clever, it’ll take much more for Tywin to deign to notice her. She’s still expected to be presentable at events and in court, however.

Tyrion Lannister

He’s already good with children, and your’s is actually well behaved. Initially Tyrion was attentive to the boy to get your attention, in hopes of securing your favor with one of his schemes. He ended up being fond of the two of you, seeing your own cleverness and compassion in your son, and how much you care for him. It brings up some bittersweet memories of his own upbringing, but he’s also very attracted to your devotion. He might take your boy for a squire, if he’s old enough, or help him achieve a better position.

Jaime Lannister

First off, lucky for him that your spouse is out of the picture, that means any sneaking around is that much easier. He’s not too worried about your son, though; if anything, Jaime doesn’t think much of him. Jaime is distanced from his own children, so he would be with your’s, unless the boy was deadset on following him around. Which, given that Jaime is a famous knight and Kingsguard, he might. Jaime will amuse the boy for a time, but it’s your attention he wants. It’s nice that the boy doesn’t consider him a Kingslayer, though that’s likely because of your influence. And if the lad has obvious talent with a sword, well … maybe Jaime will offer to train him here and there, just to make you happy. He’d feel uncomfortable if the boy began looking up to him, though. He isn’t the sort of person who should be idolized.

Sandor Clegane

Initially, he doesn’t think much of your brat. He’s already in denial of his feelings for you, and a leftover kid from your deceased spouse makes things more complicated. It’s already strange how the child isn’t afraid of him and insists on saying hello. The worst part is he finds himself getting protective when he notices other children harassing your kid — it just takes a good snarl to get them running scared, and he sends the brat back to you, telling you to keep an eye on him. He doesn’t like the strange, sentimental feelings he gets when the two of you are playing together, all but grumbling when you call him over to visit. He never refuses you, though.

Bronn of Blackwater

He doesn’t care about a brat, even if they were born in silks and silver. As if you’re the first woman he’s slept with whose had a kid. Honestly, he rather likes the plumpness around your legs and stomach, and he doesn’t see stretch marks as some awful thing a woman has to hide. So, the mercenary is his usual incorrigible self with you. If he’s feeling like pushing his luck, he’ll tease you about having another kid when you’re sleeping with him… or he’ll mention it’s a shame the husband isn’t around anymore. It’s fun to almost get caught.

Petyr Baelish

He doesn’t think much about your child, initially. Petyr is just pleased your former spouse/lover is out of the equation, that makes things much easier for him. The only reason Petyr socializes with your child at all is just to impress and please you; he’ll buy something for the tot or make conversation with them just to see you smile. It’s easier to get close to you when your child is excited the moment they see him. Though truthfully, Petyr gets a little soft when he sees you bounce the kid on your knee. He loves seeing that sort of open happiness on your face.

Robert Baratheon

Though it caused a great scandal at the time of your marriage, Robert was never bothered by you being widowed or having a child. If anything, he thought the little girl was adorable. She was fearful at first, but then he bought all sorts of extravagant gifts for her while courting you… so now he’s good in her book. Your new husband further disregarded the court by bestowing the title of ‘princess’ to her, which perhaps was another way to please you. Robert is rather turned on by your motherhood, too — he finds the softness of your body and the stretchmarks attractive.

Stannis Baratheon

It was a strange arrangement that brought you two together, and though Stannis had his doubts, he agreed because it was for the best of the realm. Don’t expect him to socialize much with your young daughter; in fact, he has no idea how to approach her. He does take some comfort in her and Shireen getting along, which is more than he could’ve hoped for. Your kindness toward both girls surprises him in a good way. It’s actually… kind of endearing to see you teach them and play with them. He’s still not sure how he fits into it, but Stannis is fine keeping to himself. He figures the three of you wouldn’t want him around.

Davos Seaworth

Well, Davos loves kids and he’s great with them, so he’s amused when he sees your son running around the keep. He met you while gathering allies for Stannis, and quickly developed a rapport with the “young lord” of the keep… Though obviously, as the lord’s widow, you were the one he was discussing the war with. The boy was fascinated with him, so when Davos visited he’d bring a toy he whittled. Davos is in a bit of denial when he starts catching feelings for you, but it’s hard to keep that up when the three of you so well together.

Margaery Tyrell

It’s your child that gets her attention first, because such a charming little boy was a welcome sight in the court of Highgarden. Her cousins loved playing with them, and that led to Margaery finding out more about you. She greatly respects you as a widow, how you’re able to run your House and keep your former husband’s rivals at bay. While Margaery initially invited you to outings to gain your favor, she quickly becomes attached to you and your son. Margaery finds her guard lowering around the two of you, and pulls strings to ensure you’re more comfortable and safe. Her grandmother chides her against her favoritism, but she can't help herself.

Brynden Tully

The old knight is the sort of man whose a natural with children. He adored his nieces and nephew, and he’s always amused by the few children who come by the Bloody Gate, excited to see the famous Blackfish. Brynden will humor your child with war stories whenever you visit. He figures you aren’t truly interested in a man like him, but escorting a lovely widow and her sweetling to the Eyrie is a rare treat. He never fancied himself a lord who would end up married, and he still doesn’t, but… he does have a soft spot for how cute you both are.

Edmure Tully

Firstly — he knows his father would’ve never approved the idea of him marrying a widow, but listen. He likes a pretty smile and good sense of humor, and damn it, you and your son are adorable. He likes the boy run around Riverrun as he pleases, going around the stables and the training yard and the beautiful river. Everyone can tell he’s equally smitten with you. Proper etiquette be damned, he can’t help but invite you to come to Riverrun anytime. It would be considered scandalous if he wasn’t obviously intent on courting you soon. It’d be easier if you had a daughter, but he’ll still be like a fun older brother to your son.

Brienne of Tarth

To begin with, she would always do her utmost to protect you if she was in your service. But something about you being a widow raising a child on her own — perhaps it reminds Brienne of her father’s situation — makes her even more loyal and diligent. If your child begged enough, Brienne would find herself giving them lessons, even if they were a girl. She’d tell herself it was because it was important for a girl to protect herself, it was good exercise, good discipline… but really, she was thinking about her own home life again. Anyone foolish enough to mess with your kid is bringing the wrath of you and a 6”2 woman with a huge sword down upon them.

Ramsay Bolton

His delight at the demise of your spouse is lessened at the thought of you bringing your brat to the Dreadfort. He suppose he should be lucky; since she’s a girl, she can’t inherit your husband’s name, therefore she came along with you. While Ramsay cares little for her, he’ll certainly use her to get closer to you and as leverage if you try to leave. He puts on a mask of kindness and helpfulness so she’ll trust him, though you’re acutely aware it’s an act. The good news is, if you’re obedient, no harm will come to her — even Ramsay knows he has to play nice to keep you cooperative and willing to stay.

Roose Bolton

Roose didn’t give much thought to the child you were bringing into the marriage. She was of little political importance, except maybe for an arranged marriage later down the line. This leads to him being fairly indifferent toward her, though not cruel, and he makes sure she’s provided with anything she needs. He’s fond of watching you play with her, listening to laughter in the Dreadfort for the first time in years. He wonders if you’ll be the same with children you have with him.

Oberyn Martell

He’s very fond of your parental instincts and your love of your child; it’s one of the many things that drew Oberyn. He’s also fond of children and doesn’t see kids from other men as a “threat” to his own love for you — you’re talking to the guy who has eight children from several different women. He’d bring all sorts of toys and treats for your child when he visited, and bring them to play with his younger girls at the Water Gardens. He really delights in seeing the two of you happy together, and, you know… he wouldn’t be opposed to having another …

Doran Martell

No surprise, Doran is a natural with children. When you come to Sunspear, he sees no problem in allowing your child to tag along and makes sure they’re comfortable. They would have no end of playmates between Oberyn’s girls and distant Martell cousins. When Doran is having a difficult day, it warms his heart to see you and the children playing together at the Water Gardens. He’d have your child raised and educated as his own were, and would like it if they all got along.

Arianne Martell

Arianne first met you after your husband died; while she knew of him, he spoke little of his wife and child. Now that you have his keep under your command, she made a point to curry your favor… and ended up growing very fond of you and your son. Arianne is already used to having young children around, so seeing him run up to her in excitement warms her heart. She definitely dotes on your son to please you, and seeing you play with him and give him attention makes her smile, too. More than once you two have been invited to the watergardens to play with her cousins.

[spinel224]

Nelly’s opinions

This is a little blurb about my GOT Oc’s about the cast.

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The Starks: Nelly was always very close to the Starks (she considers Jon a Stark even though he tells her not too). Jon is like an older brother, they understood each other when it came to their families (Nelly with her abusive mother and Jon being a bastard and hated by Cat). Nelly was also fairly close with Robb but she distanced herself so as to not cause any rumors. she wasn’t very fond of Sansa when they were younger, but when they went to Kingslanding she grew protective over the younger girl. She was always fond of Arya as she reminded Nelly of herself. Bran and Rickon where also close to Nelly, (Nelly found Bran when he “fell” out of the tower. Ned was like a father to Nelly, she admired him greatly and was greatful for giving her a place at Winterfell. She wasn’t big on Catlyn but she never hated her.

Theon: At first she dispised Theon, he constlantly flirted with Nelly and tired to bed her. However, after Ramsay she realized Theon wasn’t all bad and was probably incredibly distressed over his childhood. she was devastated when he died.

Robert Baratheon: She had mixed feelings over Robert. She didn’t hate him, but she hated how irresponsible he was. She wished to see the man her father spoke of. The man who fought for his people, she never saw that man.

The Lannistars: She doesn’t really care for most Lannistars. She dispised Tywin and Cersei. Tywin for his constant need for power and Cersei for what she did to Bran. She didn’t really have an opinion on Jaime until he left Brienne for Cersei, then Nelly hated him. She likes Tyrion though, she found him smart and admired him for what he did at Blackwater Bay. She hated Joffrey the moment she saw him. Nelly wanted him nowhere near Sansa, the only upside to him was his SwornShield. Marcella was her favorite of the children, her brother being her SwornShield, she learned quiet a bit about the Princess. she was heartbroken when Marcella died, along with Nelly’s brother. She never really had an opinion of Tommen but she felt he was a good kid.

Sam and Gilly: Nelly loves them. As she is very close to Jon she wrote to him often. Due to that she learned quite a bit about Sam and when she heard he found Gilly she was elated.

Stannis + the Red Lady: Nelly hates them, They ended up sacrificing Nelly’s second brother to their Lord of Light. She dispied them. 

Ser Davos: Nelly is incredibly fond of Davos. He took on the role of her father when she couldn’t be with hers. They consider themselves family and Nelly would do anything to keep him safe.

Danearys Targaean: She hates Dany. She never liked her. Nelly disliked her need for blind loyalty. So when Dany demanded Nelly bend the knee, Nellly was livid and refused. This caused a lot of tension and was one of the reasons Nelly wanted her dead.

Lord Varys: Nelly is good friends with Varys. He is one of the few people she actually trusts. He never lied to her and never used her. Which is why she had to convince him not to betray Dany. Nelly knew he would be killed.

Tormund: He’s like her older brother. He makes her laugh and kept her safe. They are very close.

Sandor Clegane: They are in love your honor. They met when Robert visited Winterfell but became close while Nelly stayed in Kingslanding with the Starks. When Sandor left during the Blackwater she wanted nothing more than to go with him. But she couldn’t leave Sansa. Especially since she had lost Arya, she would never forgive herself. They were reunited at the Wall, Nelly was with Jon and she broke down when she saw him again.