#i feel like i don't see wei or jin that often so that's interesting

[rongzhi]

Chinese period clothing from different dynasties.

English added by me :)

[admirableadmiranda]

Do you think JC knew WWX had feelings for LWJ in his first life? I've read people saying that they think he didn't know because he had a rant to himself about how WWX couldn't be gay because he 'flirted' with girls when they were younger (Chapter 88)

I thought it was quite obvious he definitely thought there was something odd about WWXs actions towards LWJ. He got angry at him whenever he brought LWJ up and even tried to convince WWX he hated him and to give up.

I assumed his rant in chapter 88 was him trying to convince himself that WWX wasn't gay because he's just a homophobe and couldn't bear the thought. But secretly deep down he knew, otherwise why be the way he was? He even hit WWX where he knew it would hurt by insulting LWJ, if he didn't have any suspicion, how did he know that would cut him so deep?

Do I think Jiang Cheng knew for sure Wei Wuxian had feelings for Lan Wangji in his first life? No, I don't think he knew for sure. But he knew that Lan Wangji regardless of whatever feelings they had threatened his ability to keep Wei Wuxian under his thumb.

From the moment they met, Lan Wangji had an unparalleled ability to keep Wei Wuxian's focus and interest in him and Jiang Cheng hated anyone outside of their sect that could do that. The next time you read (if you have the opportunity to) notice that while Lan Wangji gets the brunt of it, Mianmian and Jin Guangyao get the same treatment of being rudely dismissed and insulted whenever Wei Wuxian says something favorable. In Wei Wuxian's first life, Jiang Cheng was determined to keep him in his sect and away from anyone who might tempt him to leave or demand more than Jiang Cheng will give.

During the time that Wei Wuxian is dead, they definitely seem to become enemies. Just looking over their altercations at Dafan Mountain, it's pretty clear that they've had a stalemate that only hasn't erupted into a fight because Lan Wangji won't stoop to his level. Jiang Cheng has used the thirteen years to refine his insults and has no limits to what he will step to when he doesn't feel the need to kiss someone's ass. The very first time we see them interact, he calls Lan Wangji "You, with the surname of Lan!", when pissed off by Lan Wangji silencing Jin Ling. In that same scene we basically get that Jiang Cheng would love to beat the shit out of Lan Wangji but will not go into a fight he might not overwhelmingly win.

His initial insults when he captures Wei Wuxian in Qinghe really fall into this same vein. He picks lowbrow, vicious insults because that is the sort of way he handles people he doesn't like. It's not like he can insult Lan Wangji's rank or sense of honor, so why not go for his reputation and call Lan Wangji a slut? At this time his goal is simply to piss off Wei Wuxian and get one over him, implying that Lan Wangji would not protect him if he knew who Wei Wuxian was, he just wants to bang him. This in itself is homophobic in that he is using the potential to drive a wedge between them. I do not think even here he sees anything.

But. But the rant in chapter 88 is after several events where he's seem them interacting together as adults. And as grown adults who are finally getting to come close together, it does become apparent. Especially when he does things like stalk them through Lotus Pier and spy on them in the Ancestral Hall. Now he sees their love for what it is and his homophobia springs again to the fore, lashing out specifically at their relationship, slut-shaming Lan Wangji again and choosing something that he would be sensitive about to hurt both of them because when he is angry, as he so often is, he wants to hurt people as badly as he can.

Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian did live together for six years before Wangxian met and six years after they met. Jiang Cheng has always known that Wei Wuxian thought highly of Lan Wangji and always insulted him, trying multiple times to drive a wedge between them and succeeding eventually. He knows very well that Wei Wuxian is protective of the people he cares for and regardless of what those feelings are, it would rile him up and make him lash out.

It never mattered how Wei Wuxian felt for Lan Wangji that made him such a target for Jiang Cheng's vicious insults and constant belligerence, it was simply that Wei Wuxian cared at all that made him a weakness Jiang Cheng could target, long before their relationship sprung to life.

Hope this helped!

[kat-anni]

I'm not even sure which of you 26 WIPs (wow?!) to pick, but these two stood out to me - can I get two? *puppy dog eyes* "Way down we go" sounds very interesting and kinda dark so I'm intriguied. And the Merlin one - "Meeting you again" - because yes, I went down that rabbit hole recently. xD Would love to know more about those or get a short scene! Whatever you feel like sharing. ^^

Concerning this post

YESSS I am always willing to share hehe you may ask two!

Way down we go

This one's a fic about torture! ☺Wei Wuxian manages to diverge Wen Ning's arm in the last second and Jin Zixuan gets 'only' very badly hurt, not murdered. The Jin try to get the seal away from him.

Snippet!

"A-Li is...is waiting for you-," Jin Zixuan’s eyes were filled with intention, determination. ‘A-Li’, huh? The endearment barely registered under the panic spreading in Wei Wuxian’s mind. "Shhh, it's okay. I...shit. I can't help you. You have a strong core, right? Try to...try to direct everything to where the pain is. You over there!" He yelled to the remaining Jin and Lan soldiers, specifically a rather young looking Lan. -Wait, was he not wearing a headband? - Wei Wuxian just hoped that even if they partook in whatever this ambush was, they would still care about their rules and help someone in mortal danger instead of focusing on killing him -or whatever they had come here for, "come here and give him some energy!" He could see the question of 'why don't you do it' on several of their faces, but mostly they looked like they did not dare come closer while he was still there and Wen Ning was struggling against the smoky black bonds holding him down.  Okay, yeah, fair, he thought.

Meeting you again

This *cough* is a MerGana fic x'D. I know I'm probably in a very small minority with this ship but I just find their magical push and pull hate-love bond very interesting. In this fic we jump to modern day and Arthur returns. Due to #circumstances, all the other characters from before Arthur's death are also alive again. So we meet Morgan, her best friend Jenny (Gwen), etc. Merlin is of course the only immortal one and the only one with the memory of everything in between...

Snippet!

That was the moment the guy turned around. From the sudden movement, Morgan automatically looked up. His gaze flew over to them and both black haired adults froze on the spot. Recognition flashed in the man's eyes, then -she could have imagined it- something like panic. But he was able to overcome it very quickly. A smile spread across his face and he went over to them. Morgan couldn't stop staring. This couldn't be real. Was this what Jen meant? Why he would be interesting? Those piercing blue eyes, full of things she couldn't put her finger on. Those ears, standing away from the head oddly but looking strangely attractive, not ugly. And his full lips, forming that smile. “Hey, my name's Merlin. Nice to meet you.” It was the exact same man. It was Merlin, the one she so often dreamed about.

Thanks for asking!! You got me to edit these a lil bit hehe. Esp the Merlin one is SO OLD. I kinda have the urge to just rewrite them again T_T but noo I shan't x)

[rowenhood]

MXTX Exchange

Dear Gifter!

Overall Likes: friends to lovers, pining, aus (from canon divergence to modern!), slice-of-life simplicity, fake-dating, and angsty sad boi hours (though, this one doesn’t really mix well with the others)

Overall Dislikes: main character death (unless canon complaint - rip wwx), graphic gore, anything super kinky (I’m not particularly interested in explicit sexual content. Feel free to write it if you want + if that’s where the creative juices flow, as I enjoy reading it, but I don't WANT it, you know?), discourse or character bashing

No specific adaptation necessary, and feel free to set any of these to a Modern AU, canon divergence, or any canon setting

= = = = =

Pairings and Prompts (in no specific order):

Wei Wuxian / Lan Wangji

Writing Prompt: I love wangxian aus that focus on the idea of "what if wwx knew how lwj felt about him earlier?", whether that's during cloud recesses and almost all the Sunshot campaign is avoided via plot magic, or wwx pulls a confession out of lwj in the turtle of slaughter cave, or if lwj confesses his love for wwx when he demands wwx go back to gusu with him, or if lwj confesses right before wwx's death (like when lwj fights the elders and brings wwx back to the burial mounds). Basically, this could be as fluffy or as angsty as you want it! And doesn't even have to be a canon divergence. maybe just a wwx knows and things are the same... but sadder

Jiang Cheng / Nie Huaisang

Writing Prompt: Sangcheng fits so well with unexpected friends to unexpected lovers. love the idea of their differences being embraces – Jiang Cheng a grouchy, often temperamental, and fierce man versus Nie Huaisang who is softer, fights with words not swords, and hides behind his 'weaknesses'. They're super cute for fluff during younger ages - cloud recesses or pre-Sunshot -, but there's also something sweet about them finding each other again post-canon and understanding each other's pain + loss for family.

Jiang Yanli / Jin Zixuan

Writing Prompt: they deserve happiness. I would love to see cloud recesses flirting (with jzx not being a total dick), or snippets into their courtship, or happy moments during Jin Ling’s first month. (and if up for canon divergence or modern au, then life of them as a happy family).

Song Lan / Xiao Xingchen / Xue Yang

Writing Prompt: this pairing is pure chaos but also pure fluff at the same time: chaotic fluff. I think they work best in a modern au or a complete canon divergence, but if you want to write the complexities of Yi City with them as a thruple – PLEASE. Basically, they all love each other, but they love each person for very different reasons. Xiao Xingchen is the outwardly calm, but inwardly chaotic, Song Lan is outwardly and inwardly calm, while Xue Yang is outwardly and inwardly chaotic. It’s beautiful.

Jiang Cheng / Lan Qiren

Writing Prompt: For me, this relationship is always so much more of a slow-paced, “LQR was JC’s mentor” or “LQR was his father’s old friend”, who JC reaches out to for advice, they enjoy talking to each other and find out they have a lot in common, and it naturally progresses into something more. Maybe he eventually announces his relationship to his family (or what’s left of his family…), and everyone is like *pikachu face emoji*, but also “we can see you’re happy, so we’re happy for you”. (Please no teacher/student relationship here. I envision a JC who is a full-fledged sect leader / out of college + working a full-time job in a modern AU who reaches out to LQR on a whim, cause xyz has been troubling him and he hopes LQR could help)

[vrishchikawrites]

Post-post-post cannon Wangxian being completely in love in the cloud recessess as teenagers who time travelled back to their own 16-17 year old bodies on accident.

In love. Wangxian are in love. In love. Just smooph and fluff.

Like they're effortlessly in love. (No matter how much Jiang Cheng yells and ties to control Wei Wuxian, Wei Wuxian casually refuses to hear any of it, as he'd been ignoring Jiang Cheng's homophobia and hate forever by the time they both came back by accident. )

Also wwx doesn't hide his genius and every one around him is like senpai *heart eyes* (honestly he's almost forgotten how to hide his effortless genius.)

(Just FYI, don't have to include this: this Wei Wuxian has long since come to terms with all his war and Sunshot and Shiji related trauma— just FYI.)

I just want to read as much of the smooph, smushy fluff and love you can stomach writing please.

Extra points if you can show them both just effortlessly and absentmindedly flirting.

(You don't have to incude this, but: They just take like a weekend off and go raze the main Wen family to the ground casually— back late with Starbucks— "We were night hunting. What do you mean the Wen family died? So sad. We feel so bad. Don't we feel bad?" " Mm. Feel bad.")

Thank you so much for existing in this fandom. I love your fics. I love you. 💖

Xichen is proud of his brother but he can't deny that he is sometimes concerned for him as well. Wangji is a dedicated and accomplished disciple but he is isolated from his peers. Xichen has friends and confidants but Wangji is simply content to be by himself.

That is concerning, even for a Lan.

He had hopes that incoming disciples would manage to shake him up a little but that hope didn't last long. Year after year, Wangji continued to remain aloof, not expressing any interest in the disciples.

But something has changed this year. Xichen didn't even know what was going on until a few weeks into the introduction of the guest disciples.

He spots them by chance. Young Master Wei is cheerfully waving at a vendor, his smile wide and bright, ensnaring the old woman's entire attention.

Wangji is right by him, Bichen in one hand but the other…

The other is placed on the small of Wei-gongzi's back.

Xichen watches as they move on from the vendor. He sees how Wangji seems to shield Wei-gongzi from the crowd, angling his body slightly to ensure his companion can walk freely.

It is a gesture of protectiveness. It is a gesture of possession.

Xichen studies their body language carefully. Wangji seems content to follow Wei-gongzi around, his expression closed but gentle. There are no frosty glares or pursed lips. His brother, for once, looks entirely relaxed. Everything about him is loose and easy underneath all of his Lan elegance. His shoulders slope gently, his spine isn't as rigid, and his walk is steady.

The First Jade has never seen his brother look so settled.

Wei Wuxian seems happy too, his smile incandescent and lovely. Almost as tall as Wangji, the boy is the very antithesis of his brother. While Wangji is sedate and content, Wei Wuxian is nearly bursting with energy and joy. His silver eyes sparkle in the sunlight and his long hair sways with every movement of his body.

Xichen's heart softens at the glimpse of such open beauty. There's certainly something alluring about Young Master Wei. He seems to suffuse his surroundings with happiness.

There's something in the air around them.

Despite his lively mind wandering from one stall to another, Wei-gongzi always finds his way back to Wangji, looking at him with a hopeful smile and a cheerful comment.

His brother's expression is unfamiliar to him. Wangji looks like his entire world is smiling up at him.

'Is this love?' He wonders to himself as he watches his brother gently pull Wei-gongzi out of a running child's way. He doesn't miss how the touch lingers, fingers curling slightly around the slender wrist before pulling away.

There are many eyes following Wangji and his friend, and all of them have indulgent expressions. The people of Caiyi town have seen Wangji since he was a child. They know him and his nature well enough.

Xichen suspects they're just as happy to see Wangji roaming the markets leisurely as a pretty butterfly flutters around him.

"Is that Lan Wangji?" Nei Mingjue observes, stepping up beside him.

Xichen nods, "And his friend, Wei Wuxian."

"Hm," his friend says, "I've been hearing that name a lot recently. They say the only reason Jin Zuxian beat him in the rankings is because of his looks."

Xichen chuckles at Mingjue's tone, "Ah, Da-ge, you must hate that."

His friend rolls his eyes, taking a sip of his tea. "How do looks matter when you're facing down Fierce Corpses?"

"From what shufu says, Young Master Wei is Wangji's equal in many ways." Shufu had been wary at first, wondering what sort of chaos the son of Cangse Sanren would bring to Cloud Recesses. So far, Wei Wuxian has proven to be a mischievous but brilliant student. "He challenges shufu in class. They end up having loud, angry debates," Xichen chuckles because he knows his uncle, despite all appearances, loves being stimulated, "He mentions the boy often." There's a comment about Wei Wuxian almost every time he has tea with his uncle.

He looks at the two younger master's thoughtfully, "I didn't expect this."

"Are they courting?" Nei Mingjue asks bluntly, "Because your little brother is acting like a husband already."

Xichen stills and looks at the pair again. That is what's off about their body language. They move around each other confidently, not like a young couple in fresh blooms of love.

There are no tentative glances, awkward touches, and hyperawareness. Wangji touches Wei Wuxian like it is his right. Like he is confident that his touch is welcome and desired.

For a moment, he feels a pang of worry. Xichen looks at Wei Wuxian, studying him carefully to see if there's any sign of strain or distress.

He finds nothing. Wei-gongzi responds to every gesture of affection like a flower blooming under the Sun.

"Ah." He realizes, "You think…?"

"Strong bonds form quickly between cultivators with matching potential." Nei Mingjue observes, "It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Your brother looks a little too enamored for this to be a teenage fancy."

Well, isn't this an interesting development?

---

"Your hair looks nice," Nie Huaisang says, hiding a smile behind his fan. Wei-xiong always looks good but there's something particularly radiant about him now. He seems to stand a bit taller, carry himself with a bit more confidence. His gestures seem stronger, somehow carrying more authority than before.

But the hair intrigues him. There's a glittering silver hairpiece in it and the strands of ebony are tied up in a neat style.

Neater than Wei-xiong's usual style. While Huaisang is certain Wei-xiong is perfectly capable of making himself as elegant as the Jades of Lan, he usually doesn't bother.

This was done by someone else's careful, loving, hand.

Jiang Yanli isn't at Cloud Recesses and Jiang Cheng would rather burn his own hands than show even an ounce of love towards his shixiong - something pricks when he thinks about that.

So there's someone else, someone willing to comb Wei-xiong's hair until every strand is glossy and straight, before tying it up with a silver and jade pin that looks expensive.

Wei-xiong is courting- no, he corrects himself, watching his friend wave enthusiastically at Lan Wangji, 'Wei-xiong is being courted.'

Wangji-xiong bows to his brother and walks towards Wei-xiong, his gaze softer than usual. His friend is smiling widely and immediately dissolves into excited chatter. Wangji-xiong doesn't seem bothered, just nodding occasionally and watching with indulgent patience.

There's something entirely lovely about the way Wangji-xiong's eyes remain fixed on Wei Wuxian's face. It is like nothing else is more important to him than Wei-xiong's smile and cheerful voice.

Standing together in the courtyard, both clad in white and glowing under the warm light of the morning sun, they look stunning. Huaisang's romantic heart sighs at the sight.

"What is he doing?" Jiang Wanyin hisses and Huaisang looks at him, startled by his icy tone, "I can't believe he's making a nuisance of himself again!"

"Jiang-gongzi-"

"Wei Wuxian! What are you doing, messing around?"

The loud voice catches almost everyone's attention. Wei-xiong looks over his shoulder and Wangji-xiong's expression turns frosty, all warmth draining from it immediately.

"Aiya, Jiang Cheng," Wei-xiong grins but it doesn't have that sheepish, placating quality that Huaisang had seen before, on those rare occasions he visited Lotus Pier with his da-ge. This grin was full of confidence and almost... dismissal. "Why are you angry now?"

Was that tone... mocking?

Huaisang's lips twitch as Jiang-gongzi swells further with rage, "Wei Wuxian! How can you be so shameless? Imposing yourself on Lan Wangji, always trying to distract him. Think of our sect's reputation for once!"

"Do not speak for me." Wangji-xiong's voice is icy and it cuts Jiang-gongzi's rant short immediately, "Wei Ying is free to seek me out whenever he wishes. No one may stop him."

And that seems to be that. Wei-xiong laughs and Wangji-xiong guides him away gently like he's someone delicate and not the strongest cultivator of their generation.

But, Huaisang muses, even strong people deserve gentleness.

---

"Da-shixiong! Show us that one again," A Jiang disciple demands and Wangji looks up from his work. He has clear sight of the training ground from where he's sitting. Wei Ying is standing in the middle, surrounded by a few Jiang and Lan disciples.

They're all looking at him in adoration.

Wangji feels a flood of amusement and sets his work aside, content to take a small break. It is always a treat to see his husband in his element; teaching people and nurturing young minds. They may be back in their teenage bodies, but their soul is much older.

Wei Ying, with his natural ability to charm juniors and his hard-earned wisdom, is the perfect teacher.

"It is amusing to see you so smitten," Wangji looks up to see his brother smiling at him, "Wei-gongzi must be very special, yes?"

His brother probably aims to fluster him, he is so fond of teasing Wangji. But Wangji had been Wei Ying's husband for more than a decade before an accident sent them back in time. He is no longer flustered or overwhelmed by his feelings. "Very special," He agrees, unable to help glancing back at his beloved, "Very lovely."

Xichen chuckles, "He is indeed lovely." His expression turns sly, "Do I need to speak with Uncle? Betrothal negotiations may be complicated in this case."

Wangji remains unphased, "You may," He says calmly, much to his brother's surprise, "Wei Ying will marry into the Lans. Give no concession to the Jiangs. He is just their Head Disciple, not the part of the family."

"Wangji," His brother breathes, "You're that invested?"

"Un. Will marry Wei Ying. Give him a better life. A life of dignity, freedom, and respect. Free of unnecessary debt that no one should foist on a child."

That is enough for Xichen to understand. His gaze turns solemn and he looks at Wei Ying carefully, "If that is what you wish, brother, you will have it."

---

Wangji feels his heart still when he steps into the library pavilion. He gazes at the scene before him, feeling the stiff formality of his expression melt away.

Wei Ying is beautiful, sitting there and reading peacefully. The evening sunlight envelopes him, giving him an ethereal glow. He traces his husband's features, feeling something akin to desperate love. It has been so since he saw this face and this body. Mo Xuanyu didn't lack beauty and Wei Ying's radiant personality had only added to it.

But this is Wei Ying's true body.

Helplessly drawn, he steps forward. "Xingan."

Wei Ying looks up, startled to hear such an endearment aloud. Immediately, his face is aglow with a pretty blush even as he laughs teasingly, "Lan Zhan! Don't be so bold!"

He walks towards Wei Ying and settles down by him, closer than truly appropriate but this is his husband. "Research?"

Wei Ying smiles, drawing Wangji's attention to his lips. There's no one in the library so Wangji permits himself the touch, reaching forward to gently caress them, "Such beauty." He whispers.

Wei Ying blushes again, "Er-gege," He protests, "Have mercy on my heart."

His fingers slide under Wei Ying's jaw, drawing him in gently. His husband is sweet and compliant as Wangji kisses him, an innocent brush of lips and nothing more. "My Wei Ying." His voice is low, heated in ways Wei Ying recognizes. He watches as those enchanting silver eyes brighten with passion.

His Wei Ying buries his warm face in his neck with a moan of protest, "Mercy, husband. You're so cruel to tease me like this when you can't take me to bed."

It is indeed a challenge to not have their 'everyday' but Wangji can be patient. Xiongzhang is already working on it.

For now, he is content.

They sit like that for a long time, Wei Ying leaning against him, trusting and calm. No one disturbs them and Xichen only stops by once, smiling knowingly in their direction and pointedly ignoring Wangji's restraining hand around Wei Ying's waist, stopping him from pulling away.

They spend the rest of the evening exchanging soft murmurs and softer kisses.

Nothing will stand in their way this time.

[veliseraptor]

Hi, Lise...Thanks a lot for your fanfics (especially about XueXiao)...I just read a theory.....The theory says if Wei Wuxian's parents survived, he might have turned like Xiao Xingchen. If Wei Wuxian was never found by Jiang family, he might have turned out like Xue Yang and if he was found by an unkind sect leader he might have ended like Jin Guangyao.....Do you agree with this? Thoughts, please?

so!!! I feel like this is one of those things where I block someone in the tag roughly every other week about it (not you, anon, thanks for giving me the opportunity to ramble) so I might regret posting this because it might be wank bait, but ah well here goes.

I'm going to focus on the latter half of your ask rather than the former (Wei Wuxian turning out like Xiao Xingchen), because the answer to that one is just a straight "no" and that's boring to talk about.

First off: with Jin Guangyao I think it's important to note, also, that it's not as simple as "he was found by an unkind sect leader" - there's a lot of other baggage there that is behind [gestures] everything he does. But leaving that aside and just taking this as a "did Wei Wuxian only escape turning out much worse because he got lucky" as the core premise, because that's how I read it, more or less.

I don't think it's as simple or direct as "if x then y" when it comes to Wei Wuxian and what he would or wouldn't have done, how he would or wouldn't turn out. For instance: what guarantee is there that, if he grew up on the street, he would manage to cultivate a golden core at all? or would he invent demonic cultivation younger as a substitute? how would that look different than when he does it later? Given that he wasn't a bastard son, he fundamentally could not experience the precise sting of humiliation and shame that Jin Guangyao does (over and over again) - and that humiliation and shame is so very formative for Jin Guangyao.

But I will say this: MXTX fucking loves parallels and foils. They are everywhere, across her work, in every novel I've read of hers so far. Mirrors everywhere. Once you start looking for those motifs, they're fucking everywhere. In MDZS/CQL alone the obvious ones are the ones given here (Xue Yang/Wei Wuxian, Jin Guangyao/Wei Wuxian), but scratch a little and there's others (Lan Xichen & Jin Guangyao/Lan Wangji & Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji/Song Lan, Wei Wuxian/Xiao Xingchen...I could go on).

Another theme that MXTX seems to really like is about the difference kindness and compassion can make in shaping a person's behavior. I think SVSSS is most transparent about this (the difference between a Luo Binghe who grew up solely on violence and abuse and a Luo Binghe who grew up with someone who was kind to him), but I think you see it across works. MXTX is just...as far as I can tell, not interested in villainy qua villainy. Again and again, the people who do the most awful things in her work have what people would dismissively call a tragic backstory and I don't think that's incidental at all. Suffering breeds suffering.

I might go into this more later (I probably will) but to my eye, when the protagonists "triumph" over an antagonist in MXTX novels, more often than not it's a bittersweet victory at best, and often it's...not sweet at all. It's just sad. There's not really, at least from my perspective, as much of an ethos of punishment as I see in many other works I've read (or as I see in tumblr fandom reactions to the source text). The evil is defeated and no one is really happy about it. (Apex of this, I'd say, is Jun Wu and Xie Lian's confrontation at the very end of TGCF. Could say more on that; I don't think I will. At least not now.)

But I've strayed from the original question you were asking, though I suppose my answer is probably evident by now. I think there is an undercurrent of there but for the grace of God, as it were, in Wei Wuxian's foils, but I also think it's not just about him. I think it's about the underlying themes of the way people are chewed up and spit out by society itself, and how that shapes them, and how cruelty creates its own enemy. I think about Wen Chao and the appalling punishment Wei Wuxian visits on him, and lay it beside what Xue Yang does (off screen) to the Chang Clan, and I think it's a difference of degree rather than kind.

Part of the reason Wei Wuxian is fascinating is because in almost any other story he would be a villain. In his first life, that's his arc! It's a classic fall from grace, culminating in his final break - and it's only his death that averts it. And it is, honestly, the kind of death that would come to a villain: that is, killed by his own destructive power. CQL blunts the edges of this in a lot of ways (for instance, the carnage before the second flautist gets involved at Nightless City is...a little visually underwhelming), but I'd argue that it's still there.

Ultimately there's a lot of villain is in the eye of the beholder going on in MDZS/CQL, I would argue, and I think the mirroring and paralleling between Wei Wuxian and Xue Yang/Jin Guangyao is less meant to illustrate the ways in which Wei Wuxian Is Fundamentally Better and a Good Person Who Would Never Be Like That but more to show the difference a little kindness can make, and the destruction cruelty causes.

I'm not actually sure this made any sense! But I wrote all this anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and hit post anyway, and scurry back into my den to do the work I should've been doing instead of writing this response.

[jungwookjins]

Hi! I'm introducing some friends to the untamed and making some notes on where the netflix subs don't give enough information/good translations, according to the fandom. I saw your translation of the 'to die by your hand' scene and it KILLED me, so I was wondering if there are any other particular scenes you think it's important to note a different translation? Thank you so much if you can!

ooh so there aren't any scenes i can think of where the translation falls so so short of the actual emotion and meaning as much as that one, however there are definitely some less dramatic instances.

in general, i would say that mandarin (and a lot of other languages from what i've heard) has a lot more inherent emotional depth than english, so in translation, a lot of the subtitles sound very emotionally neutral or ambivalent when they really aren't.

the instance of this that sticks out to me the most is during the confrontation between wei wuxian and jiang cheng at the guanyin temple (ep 48, ~9 minutes in) where wuxian says to jiang cheng「都不要放在心上了」(dou bu yao fang zai xin shang), which the subtitles translate as "please don't keep it in your heart," which i'm actually not really mad at as a translation, but it's just not a phrase used much in english, so it sounds slightly awkward/doesnt convey the emotional context of that phrase.

so for context, mandarin has multiple ways of saying, loosely, "don't worry." there's「不要擔心」(bu yao dan xin), which is probably the most common and versatile to say it, and there's「不要放在心上」(bu yao fang zai xin shang), which is the one wuxian says to jiang cheng. (there's other ways too, they're just not rly relevant here) the literal translation of it is "do not put it on your heart," which the netflix is pretty close to, but ofc that doesn't tell u much abt usage. the way i've explained it in the past was, say u made a mistake at work and were beating urself up over it.「不要擔心」is something your coworker or boss might say to you to essentially say "hey it's no big deal, don't worry about it, ur fine;" it can be very casual. whereas, once you get home and start talking abt ur bad day at work,「不要放在心上」is more likely something your parent/sibling/partner/other loved one would say to you as they put a bowl of ur favorite soup in front of u. it has a level of inherent familiarity and deeper desire to comfort the person ur talking to than「不要擔心」. (note: i say inherent bc「不要擔心」doesnt have to always be casual/relatively emotionally neutral, it can be said w emotion ofc but the words themselves do not carry as much emotion as「不要放在心上」.

other than that, i’m not remembering any other specific scenes rn (if i remember smth, i’ll rb w the addition and @ you), but one thing that happens throughout the show is translation discrepancy when characters are addressing each other. for example, when wuxian and jiang cheng talk to yanli, the subtitles always have them both addressing her by name, but in chinese, family members often dont address each other by name, like my younger brothers both call me 姐 (jie), which means older sister. jiang cheng calls yanli 阿姐 (a-jie) most of the time (the 阿 at the beginning is just a prefix used in front of names and other forms of address to express familiarity, it’s the same character used in a-yuan). wuxian calls yanli 師姐 (shijie), which is what you call a senior female fellow student studying under the same master/in the same school/etc.

(rest under the cut bc this got rly long)

nie huaisang calls mingjue 大哥 (dage)/哥 (ge); 哥 means older brother and 大 means big, so 大哥 is often used for the eldest brother (esp common if there are multiple brothers). an interesting thing is that wangji does not call xichen 哥 or any variation of it, rather he calls him 兄長 (xiong zhang), which also means older brother but is a term of respect and much more formal, so that’s also a reflection of their characters and upbringing. 兄長 is not in common use nowadays but 哥 very much still is.

after nie mingjue, lan xichen, and jin guangyao take their oath of sworn brotherhood, they also change their forms of address with each other. for example, guangyao calls xichen 二哥 (er ge), which means second older brother (since xichen is the second oldest) and calls mingjue 大哥 (like huaisang does). (i feel like i vaguely remember guangyao being called 三弟 (san di), which means third younger brother, by someone but don’t remember if it was xichen or mingjue.)

(also impt to note that in chinese culture, familial terms as forms of address aren’t strictly reserved for family (whether that be blood or found). for example, in a casual setting, you can address any woman who is your parents’ age or between their age and your grandparents age as 阿姨 (a-yi) (or name + 阿姨), which is the term for your maternal aunt, and you can address any man of the same age range as 叔叔 (shu shu), which is what you’d call your paternal uncle. similarly in a familiar/casual setting, you can call women older than you but younger than your parents 姐姐/name + 姐, like the daughters, who are all younger than me, of my parents’ friends call me jessie jie-jie. and you can call men in the same age range 哥哥/name + 哥, like how wang yibo calls xiao zhan, zhan-ge. the same applies for people younger than you, with which you would use 妹妹, younger sister, and 弟弟, younger brother.)

another example is that jin guangshan calls jiang fengmian 江兄 (jiang xiong), 江being his family name ofc and 兄 meaning brother (same character as in 兄長, which wangji calls xichen), since they’re of the same age and status and their wives are sworn sisters. xichen, on the other hand, calls fengmian 江宗主 (jiang zong zhu), which means sect leader jiang. in the subtitles, these are often just translated as “you,” when they’re talking directly to him. 

so in general, there is a lot of information abt characters’ relationships, level of familiarity with each other, age, etc that is contained in their forms of address that just doesn’t come across in the netflix subs, since those default to their names like 80% of the time.

hope this helps!! if u (or anyone else) have other questions/scenes ur wondering abt, feel free to ask, i’m always down to talk translations. and if you want to see more of my beef w netflix subs a;lskjdf, all of my cql gifsets with dialogue on them have either been translated from scratch by me or i’ve edited the netflix translations, and i usually put some notes abt my translation in the tags. any sets that i’ve translated from scratch are under my translations tag, though most of these are actually for word of honor/shan he ling and not cql.

edit: check my reblog in the notes for some more additions!!

[robininthelabyrinth]

Hey does nie huisang's mother ever come back? I really liked the part where she doted and bonded with mingjue. I think even though she's not human she'd be even more delighted with him and more or less adopt him all over again after seeing how he cared so fiercely for huisang (also I don't think she'd care that guangyao has given up. Try to touch either of her kids and your a dead man... or maybe just mingjue? Since he's human and a LOT younger than her maybe she just goes around killing the people that have the capacity and wish to kill him)

spontaneous sequel to this morning’s fic (ao3 link here)

-

Huli jing were pretty rare, as spiritual beasts went, and that was generally considered to be a good thing - when they were bad, they were very very bad - but Nie Mingjue faithfully followed up on every possible lead regardless, putting it out among the other cultivation sects that he had a special interest and would appreciate - with monetary remuneration, even - a heads up should one ever show itself.

Mostly this meant following up on a lot of false leads, including, in one somewhat embarrassing case, an actual fox that had stolen the local farmer’s prize goose.

Still: family was family, and so he kept it up.

He had to stop during the war, naturally, and in the period immediately following it when his health had gotten very bad for a while, although luckily the dragon managed to fix it back up, and he’d been doing very well ever since. Lan Xichen had wondered if it was Clarity and Jin Guangyao had refused to talk to him for a month for some reason, but that wasn’t that important.

He was feeling better now, so he started following up on leads again. Nie Huaisang was coming up on his first quarter-century very soon, and that was supposed to be a big event - his first tail! - and books were all well and good but someone, anyone, with experience was better.

Ironically enough, he found what he was looking for on a scheduled hunt that wasn’t anything anyone had identified as a huli jing, but rather what appeared to be rather a great deal of nu gui appearing all at once near Lanling, enough to make a notorious womanizer like Jin Guangshan start to sweat. They’d all been making the rounds, all the various Great Sects together - even Jiang Cheng had joined in, as well as Lan Wangji, recently emerged from seclusion with a scowl firmly on his face.

“Why do you think they’re aiming at the Jin sect?” Lan Xichen wondered aloud as they walked around the edges of an abandoned village very close to Lanling - one of the trouble spots. “It’d be one thing if it were one of them, but so many...?”

“My theory is that someone is murdering all of Sect Leader Jin’s outside women so that they’ll go after him,” Jiang Cheng said, then glanced at Jin Guangyao. “No offense meant, of course.”

Jin Guangyao waved a hand dismissively. He’d started loosening up in the time since he met the dragon, revealing a bit more of his sharper and nastier side in a way that made Nie Mingjue respect him more than all of his fake softness had, and for some reason that had made Jiang Cheng warm right up to him. All for the good, in Nie Mingjue’s opinion, since they were all but co-raising that nephew of theirs...

“Who would do that, though?” he asked. “It’s as if they bear him a grudge, but it seems like a roundabout way of going about -”

“Dumpling!”

Nie Mingjue stopped moving.

There was a woman standing in the door to one of the village houses. Like a nu gui she was dressed all in red, but her flesh was ruddy and her complexion vibrant; her luxurious hair looped in a widow’s braids but her figure just as gorgeous as it had ever been.

She held out her hands towards Nie Mingjue, smiling. “Oh, cabbage bun, meat pie, my darling! How have you been?”

“...did she just...”

“Right to Chifeng-zun‘s face?”

Nie Mingjue put Baxia away.

“Mingjue-xiong?” Lan Xichen asked, frowning. “You should be careful; we had heard that this village was abandoned of all human life.”

“No one who calls Chifeng-zun a cabbage bun could be human,” Jiang Cheng mumbled under his breath. 

“Second mother?” Nie Mingjue called tentatively as he approached, and ignored how the cultivators around him all abruptly went silent and slack-jawed. “Is that you?”

“Naturally,” she said. “You don’t think I’d miss my baby’s birthday, do you? After you did such a good job taking care of him, too! Oh, my little carp, I’m sorry it took so long. I had to cut one off to escape, you understand, and once you do that you’re really rather stuck until you gather enough power to get back to full strength...would’ve been a touch awkward, wouldn’t you say?”

She certainly talked about as much as Nie Huaisang, Nie Mingjue reflected.

“He’ll be happy to see you,” he said. If this was the wrong huli jing - and he wouldn’t be shocked if it was, what with the way they changed faces - and a trick was being played, it wouldn’t work on Nie Huaisang. “Were you planning on staying long? Just the birthday, or...?”

He wasn’t giving up Nie Huaisang to anyone at all, not even his birth mother.

“I hadn’t quite decided,” she said, nodding in a way that meant that she understood his meaning and didn’t intend to dispute it; he relaxed at the sight of her agreement. “I got a little distracted, actually. Don’t think I didn’t hear about what that nasty man tried to do to you!”

“Nasty man?” Nie Mingjue asked, puzzled. “Do you mean Wen Ruohan? That was ages ago.”

“Not him, my gooey little egg! That nasty Jin sect leader, all sly and underhanded tricks - not that I mind sly and underhanded tricks, of course, least of all murderous ones - but I mean, really. The gall of that man, thinking he could snap up my little morsel before I could!”

“...does she like Chifeng-zun or want to eat him?” Jiang Cheng whispered.

“Unknown,” Lan Wangji murmured back.

“Shhh,” Lan Xichen said. “A-Yao, are you all right? You’ve gone terribly pale...”

“Anyway, chicken wing, I decided to bring back all of his nightmares to haunt him,” she chattered on cheerfully, throwing her head haughtily, the eyes of all the men and women irresistibly followed the graceful lines of her neck and shoulders, though most of them were able to pull their eyes away a moment later. That was her mercy, rather than their strength; she was a strong enough huli jing to entrap a sect leader, and Nie Mingjue’s father had been no slouch, even if he had bad taste in bed partners. “It’s been ever so much fun.”

Nie Mingjue sighed. “Second mother,” he said. “I thought I asked you not to kill people? As a special birthday favor to me?”

“Oh, pork chop, I know! I haven’t forgotten - no killing people around you, I remember, I remember. I haven’t killed anyone...well, in connection with this, anyway. I just had a little chat with some of my underworld friends and brought the ones who’d already died back.”

Nie Mingjue’s eyes shot straight to a - by now - even more pale Jin Guangyao. “Uh,” he said. “By chance, second mother, did you happen to pass by Yunping...?”

“Such a sweet little tanghulu you are! I could pop you right into my mouth and never frown.” He was only a few steps away from her now, and she danced forward to pat him on the cheek. “Don’t worry! I know how much you care for your friends. I made sure not to send A-Shi anywhere those mean old cultivators could get her.”

“A-Yao! Oh, someone help me, I think he’s stopped breathing - come, sit down -”

“You really need to stop bringing back nu gui,” Nie Mingjue decided to say instead of dealing with...that. “They’re not getting past Jinlin Tower’s defenses anyway, and we’re worried about collateral damage.”

His second mother heaved a sigh. “I know, I know,” she said. “I had the same thought as you, meatball, about the defenses. You caught me just as I finished upgrading.”

Nie Mingjue didn’t like the sound of that.

“Of course, it isn’t working out right,” she added, pouting. “You’d think someone who got accused of being a demon so often wouldn’t be so picky about who he’s being asked to murder.”

“I already told you that I’m not a vicious ghost!” a surprisingly familiar voice retorted from inside the house. “I refuse to go around killing people!”

“Oh no - now Jiang Cheng’s fallen down, too! Wangji, could you - Wangji? Wangji!”

Nie Mingjue covered his face with his hand. “You brought back Wei Wuxian.”

“I brought back Wei Wuxian,” his second mother agreed. “I thought it’d be poetic justice - the wronged man come back for revenge. But he’s being persnickety about it, so I have half a mind to just let him go.”

“Good idea,” Nie Mingjue said, deciding to just - let it go. Someone else could deal with it. Possibly Lan Xichen, since it sounded like everyone else had fainted. “Anyway, you’re far too busy to pursue vengeance right now.”

“I am?”

“I know how much you like to throw parties. Don’t you want to help me plan Huaisang’s twenty fifth?”

“Oh!” She clapped her hands. “Absolutely! We can invite positively everyone that tried to get in your way and show off how good a job raising him you did!”

Nie Mingjue thought back over all the creatures he’d ever encountered.

“We’re going to need a bigger venue.”

[pharahsgf]

I haven't read the novel and don't plan to but I agree with that anon that in cql wei wuxian seemed coded more as gay than bisexual (though of course people can headcanon whatever they want). if I recall right, he only "flirts" with mianmian during their first meeting and he seemed way more invested in using it as a way to get rooms at the inn rather than actually flirting. and I interpreted all his interactions with wen qing as friendship/siblings. especially in the burial mounds when he and wen qing both are missing their other sibling. as in "your little brother is in a coma so I'll be your brother now" "your older sister is far away living with the jin clan so I'll be your sister now." honestly most of his interactions with women in cql only felt like flirting once the camera cut to lan wangji who was glaring grumpily lol. so to me it feels not like wei wuxian was actually showing interest in women, but that lan wangji was AFRAID that wei wuxian's interactions with women were a sign of interest, when really they weren't. hence wei wuxian's bewildered expressions every time he'd turn and see lan wangji glaring grumpily then walking away

scream exactly! the scene w mianmian is so often cited as a wei wuxian x girls moment but he really was just trying to charm information out of her & lost interest the moment his question was answered. i did not comprehend a single plot point from episodes 1-9 on first watch but i did manage to catch every time wei wuxian waxes poetic about the beauty of women while giving lan wangji the most incisive, assessing look, like he's testing the waters wrt lan wangji's sexuality more than anything. ofc i was influenced by the knowledge that he & lan wangji become lovers but he was always so oblivious to lan wangji's jealousy - something lifted from the novel that makes so much less sense in cql given wei wuxian's greater understanding of lan wangji, but works very well if you interpret wei wuxian as a gay man pursuing lan wangji who's so blindsided by this heterosexual bs that he's genuinely surprised when his playful faux-womanising doesn't get the expected reaction

[neuxue]

Hi, neuxue......If you don't mind me asking, who are your favorite “villains” (or antagonists) in MXTX works? Whether it’s a final boss like Jun Wu or more of a side character like Xue Yang. (Whether you want to do a ranking or just write out in no particular order)...Sorry if you've answered this question before....

If I don't mind??? If I don't mind? Please, my friend, you give me an opportunity to talk about favourite villains and I am yours for as long as you'll listen.

Not going to attempt to order them so we'll just go by story:

CQL

Xue Yang - characters who don't realise what they want, or that they've found a way to have it, until the moment when they destroy it!! Who destroy it because on some level they don't truly believe they can have it at all, and because it's easier to lose something when you can convince yourself you were always going to, and that it was your own choice. The whole time-bomb of Yi City just wrecks me.

I'm also generally here for his brand of competence and mercuriality - the knife-edged playfulness that doesn't quite mask a deeper darkness, the tendency to dance just a little too close to the edge with the particular carefree abandon of one who cannot imagine living beyond youth.

Finally... oh man do I even want to try to articulate this? So, he has several traits that often get used as a shorthand for not just ‘evil’ but ‘inherently evil’. Which... frustrates me. But with Xue Yang... yes, he's cast as a villain and yes he loses everything and yes he dies alone and unmourned... but there's a sense of 'it didn't have to go this way'. If the cart driver had been kinder; if his capability had been put to some use other than ‘weapon’. Or that moment in Yi City where he seems to delight just as much in cheating at a silly game of choosing sticks as he does in tricking Xiao Xingchen into killing people. This idea that there could have been another path. (And also, via Yi City, that he is not... inherently unlovable). His story ends in tragedy, but it’s not framed, at least the way I (choose to) read it, as ‘your story can only end in tragedy, because of the way you are’. It gives the option to read it as ‘you are not inherently monstrous’.

(Which then almost feeds back into the tragedy of the first point, because it’s only there in a kind of meta sense: Xue Yang himself? only ever receives the you are a weapon, you are a monster, that is all you can be side of it. Oh man okay I’ll stop here before I get pulled into a whole essay on this because suddenly I want to).

Jin Guangyao - I love a schemer! I love a pragmatist! I love ruthless competence beneath an inscrutable smile! I love characters who will tolerate nothing less than absolute perfection in themselves because they have learned the hard way that it’s the only possible way to survive. Characters who are not exempt from their own ruthlessness, their own cost-benefit analysis. Characters who have learned from their world that happiness must be sacrificed at the altar of survival, and who will do so with heartbreak but without hesitation when necessary. The only way is forward; to look back is to fail, but the irony is they can still never outrun their pasts.

Also he’s another one where there’s such a sense of it didn’t have to end this way. So many points at which things could have been different, so many alternate versions in which his capability could have been channelled towards a different goal, if the goal carved into his bones didn’t have to be survive, in a world that will try to make that impossible. 

I love villains and antagonists of all stripes and moralities, but in this instance what I love is a character who doesn’t want to be a villain, doesn’t want their hands stained with blood, doesn’t want to hurt those they love... but they do not see a choice. 

Wen Zhuliu - he’s highly competent and wears fingerless gloves; what more do you want from me?

Honestly though, he fascinates me. In part it’s the fact that we just don’t get much interiority to him, and only one exchange of dialogue that really suggests his motives, but we also get these little moments, that collectively build this sense of a kind of... lawful neutral, I suppose? Not even villain-by-necessity so much as villain-by-...debt? loyalty? But he also so clearly has such a strong sense of honour, and I just love trying to reconcile all of those pieces into a cohesive whole. 

The other thing that really gets me about him is his extraordinary power and how it’s regarded - especially when juxtaposed with Wei Wuxian’s. In both cases you have a single individual who holds a terrifying and mostly unique power that threatens or pushes the boundaries of their whole society and world. Wei Wuxian commands ghosts without a sword; Wen Zhuliu can extinguish someone’s power with his hands. But, crucially, the difference between them seems to be... that Wei Wuxian is a wildcard; Wen Zhuliu is leashed. And so I have to wonder once again at the strength of that leash, and at what would happen if Wen Zhuliu, like Wei Wuxian, decided to rebel. And in that whole question lives in this really interesting space of... what is it people truly fear? The power? The wielder? That person’s ability to choose? The uncertainty of what they will choose? The possibility of them realising they can?

***

TGCF

He Xuan - I mean the theme here obviously is competence, and He Xuan has a killer aesthetic to go with it, but mostly it’s just... the way his whole character is an exploration of revenge, and the line between vengeance and justice, and the question inherent in the irony of... throwing away the very thing you wanted vengeance for, in order to exact that vengeance.

(And also the whole cycle-of-revenge in doing unto another what was once done unto you, in the process of exacting that vengeance).

I’m just. Unbelievably here for a good betrayal story, and this one has it all! The intimacy! The self-betrayal! The emptiness and hunger!

And while with Xue Yang I love that moment of realising what he wants, or what he’s losing, only in the moment when he destroys it... with He Xuan what I love is that he goes into this, in so many ways, knowing what he’s doing. This is not spontaneity; this is the ultimate premeditation. He knows what he has, in his guise as a heavenly official. He knows, intimately, the person he is betraying. He has given great thought to the how of that betrayal. 

(Is it worth it, in the end?)

(After all, he’s still here)

Bai Wuxiang - one of the dynamics that will wreck me pretty much every time is what I like to call ‘intimate enemies’. Enemies-to-lovers can fit under that umbrella, but it’s a broader umbrella than just that. The idea of characters who (either one-sided or reciprocally) know each other so deeply, and can wield that knowledge to wound. The awful gentleness and precision of holding a knife to the core of someone’s identity. 

That, plus the identity fuckery in general. The way Bai Wuxiang frames himself as Xie Lian’s mirror, and the way he then reflects and warps and tugs at those pieces of Xie Lian’s self and name and will, trying to shape them in his image, but so gently. The way he talks to Xie Lian! The way he strokes his hair as he stabs him! It’s just so much, okay!

So yeah, a lot of it is that I’m just very into the highkey fucked-up dynamic he has with Xie Lian. But also Bai Wuxiang’s own story hits me in a kind of... if you’ll forgive a Wheel of Time reference: betrayer-of-hope betrayed-by-hope kind of way. That he tried so hard once, only for it to fall to ruin in his hands, and now he watches another try (and fail!) as he once did. And the way he seems to, in trying to mould Xie Lian’s present to his own past, be searching for a kind of... vindication? A confirmation of that inevitability? That of course he failed, that he could never have succeeded, because this is the nature of humanity, and it is not worth saving, and so his attempts weren’t failure. 

But the thing with that is: it’s a lose-lose situation. If he succeeds and Xie Lian fails, yes, it gives him that sense of ‘there was never another way, and no point trying to find one’ but is that really... winning? Is finding vindication in despair truly a success? And yet if he fails and Xie Lian succeeds, then does that not also feel like a sword to the heart: that it wasn’t inevitable, and that means he has to come to terms with his own failure and the heartbreak it wrought?

[pack-the-pack]

Just saw your post about being confused about Clan vs Sect and I actually can explain it! Basically the CLAN are the biological descendants of the founder of that Sect and could eventually lead it (for example Lan Zhan/Lan Wangji is a direct descendent of Lan An the founder of the Lan Sect) while ANYONE could be a part of the SECT (I don't know if you've heard about or "met" him yet, but Xue Yang was a part of the Jin SECT but not the Jin CLAN. The Donghua is actually good about colour coding characters, while it's not mentioned as often in the novels. White = Lan Sect. Purple = Jiang Sect. White+Red = Wen Sect. Dark green/grey (depends I think?) = Nie Sect. The Donghua has it's flaws but considering that the novel has FLASHBACKS INSIDE OF FLASHBACKS (example a flashback to past events involving a character then having a flashback to meeting that character) that the donghua just more or less puts in chronological order, I find the donghua easier to understand. (There is also a plot hole the donghua fixes.. though they did decide to SPEEDRUN one of my favourite arcs but they DID fix a plot hole) and also, I feel like the Donghua gave me the best understanding of how scary some things are supposed to be and give real GRAVITY to how strong some people are. Honestly in both the novel AND the donghua you just kinda have to figure out how things work. Everyone else already knows, so they often won't explain it lol (MXTX novels are my special interest so while I might not have all the answers I have some)

OOOOOH Thank you so much! And no I didn't meet this specific character yet (at least I don't think so, the ammount of names and people to keep track of still make me confused sometimes), in the novel I'm one or two chapters after the whole teenage years flashback, when Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji go to where the demon arm is poiting.

Idk, I like the ammount of action in the Donghua, I thought it made it more impacting and interesting. Definetly an inprovement on the novel. But the pacing just threw me off, they just kind of forgo a lot of the details and just jump from one thing to another without much of a cooldown time or showing you more necessary information of how they got here or how certain things happened and why (again I just knew what was going on because I read the novel first).

And I guess I can kind of understand what you mean on the impact and gravity of stuff part. In the novel they do kind of look a bit nonchalant about how some of these evil things work and what they cause. But I just thought it was a cultural thing within the worldbuilding. I'm still gonna try to watch the donghua after reading the novel to see if it helps me connect the people to the actions and relationships, but so far the novel is still more ot my liking than the animation.

[franniebanana]

CQL Rewatch - Ep 22

It feels so good to see these two together, talking about old times, and most importantly, not arguing. It's as if this was the conversation that was meant to happen back in Yiling, but it didn't because emotions were too high. I guess it's true that absence makes the heart grow fonder. Wei Wuxian has time to think about and come to the understanding that Lan Wangji isn't fighting him, but instead showing concern. And Lan Wangji gets to hear Wei Wuxian's side of the story, about what he did those three months in the Burial Grounds. It's so refreshing to have this release after so much tension had built up, where the two of them are just open and honest with each other. And you can see how Wei Wuxian's relationship with Lan Wangji is different from his relationship to everyone else. While we get to see him being vulnerable with Jiang Yanli, he won't tell her everything; we see him connecting with Jiang Cheng again, but as is his temperament, Jiang Cheng is often flippant and dismissive, and only really cares that Wei Wuxian is back within the Jiang Clan fold. Lan Wangji really cannot be satisfied until he knows what's been going on; he wants to be reassured that Wei Wuxian is okay in both mind and body, he wants to know that he's not gone to the dark side per se.

And this moment is so pivotal here. Now that they've finally talked and gotten everything out that they've both been ruminating on over the past however long (idk timelines lol), Wei Wuxian is in a place where he can say he'll accept Lan Wangji's help. Wei Wuxian doesn't agree to it begrudgingly, but I think it's a hopeless agreement. Unless you know about his lack of a Golden Core, his response seems odd--maybe you think he's tired, maybe you think he's just doing it to appease Lan Wangji, but is being dishonest. With the knowledge of the transfer, you can see that he is agreeing to appease Lan Wangji, but not in a lazy or dishonest way: he knows that he can never learn the sword again, but he allows Lan Wangji to at least help him with his temperament. I don't think it's him agreeing to get Lan Wangji off his back, I think instead he's letting Lan Wangji know how important he is to Wei Wuxian--he's special.

After Wei Wuxian agrees to letting Lan Wangji help, he walks away smiling. He doesn't let Lan Wangji see it either. I feel that he's indescribably happy that with so many changes in his life, he has his relationship with Lan Wangji back--he has his best friend, he has someone who he can trust. And remember, he's not concerned about his temperament being overwhelmed--Wei Wuxian has always considered himself a prodigy, so while this is challenging, he believes that what he learned from the Gusu Lan Clan is enough. Lan Wangji, on the other hand, is still very concerned, and he devotes all of his free time to figuring out ways to help Wei Wuxian, to steady his mind and temperament.

So, while I'm watching this filler, I'm imagining a terrible scenario they could have done. When you're adapting a book or a play or really anything, it's not uncommon to add scenes, right? CQL has plenty of added scenes for context and padding, plus shit they just made up. Okay, so this would fall into the latter category. Imagine if they had had Lan Wangji get turned into a puppet/Urukai, and then there's some big, dramatic way that Wei Wuxian has to save him and turn him back, and it only brings them closer together as brothers in arms/whatever bs they were trying to sell us without making it romantic. Sounds like a terrible idea, right? Aren't you glad the writers had enough integrity and respect for the novel that they didn't do that? I complain about things that were added or changed as well, but if they had given me an actual explicit acknowledgment of wangxian love, I would have been happy. Of course, censorship is a bitch, so that's a no go. The point of this is that it could have been a lot worse.

Oh, god. Soup drama. Thank you to that person who posted the soup drama in Lan Wangji's POV. You are amazing, and that post always makes me cackle.

Ah, but this is canon to the novel if I remember correctly. It's totally valid and is actually kind of sad for Yanli, but I still think it's hilarious the way Wei Wuxian just takes off like a shot without knowing what's going on. The thing is, Jiang Yanli is just embarrassed about the whole thing and wants to leave, but of course Wei Wuxian wants revenge. He still harbors no love for Jin Zixuan, and any chance he gets to put the peacock in his place, he'll take.

Yanli is tugging on him with both hands, and Wei Wuxian doesn't move. He is just standing there, glaring at Jin Zixuan. There are two people in the world who Wei Wuxian will defend forever: Jiang Yanli and Lan Wangji--and Jin Zixuan has just offended one of them. Wei Wuxian is beyond pissed. And now couple that with how he was trapped in a sunless graveyard for three months, has been doing nothing but fighting since he's been out, and is using his spiritual power in a dangerous and unstable method. His mood, my friends, is not great right now.

I love how Lan Wangji looks inside the tent, and then proceeds to immediately nope out of there. I blame that soup drama post for everything that I see now, because it really does look like he's just thinking, "Ugh, soup drama again." But in all seriousness, I think this is just Lan Wangji feeling awkward again. I think he came out of genuine concern for Jiang Yanli, because remember Wei Wuxian took off without even hearing what was going on, but when he sees that it's clearly a matter between her and Jin Zixuan, he leaves. This isn't his business, and it also involves romance, because of course he remembers how they were betrothed until the fight broke out in Cloud Recesses. Regardless of how Lan Wangji carries himself and how he's so respected as a cultivator, he's still a young man, who still feels awkward about the idea of love and doesn't really want to be around any of it--lovers' quarrels and whatnot.

The other thing is, they don't pan over to Lan Wangji for no reason. Perhaps he's still remembering the conversation he had with Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng back in Yiling: this is a Jiang Clan affair. And this time, he's choosing to bow out when he realizes it isn't his business. However, he doesn't want to go far, because he knows how dangerous Wei Wuxian really is, especially if he loses his cool.

Honestly, Jin Zixuan is such a dick here. Every time I think he's made progress, he takes a step backward. Jiang Yanli is the sweetest person, and is just giving him soup every day to provide him with some comfort. We're to understand that she is a good cook and her soup is The Best, so she wants to do something nice for him, perhaps bring him the comfort of home in the place that is farthest from home, and he practically throws it back in her face. It's a total misunderstanding, but my heart breaks for her. And after this moment, Jin Zixuan starts to try harder. I think he finally sees who she is, what kind of person she is, and understands how genuine and loving she has always been. He finally opens his eyes and gets to know her as a person, not as the girl he's engaged to, not as the girl he was engaged to, not as the girl his parents want him to marry--but as the girl who he's interested in.

Not a lot to talk about this episode. I swear, half of it is just fighting. But let's take a moment to appreciate Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji fighting together. I am a sucker for this sort of thing, so I love seeing Lan Wangji swoop in and knock a baddie's sword out of the way to protect Wei Wuxian. It feels good seeing that and seeing them on the same side, fighting together.

Wei Wuxian tried it their way. He tried to fight without using Chenqing, but the fight was impossible. As stated before, the puppets are unkillable, so there was no way to win just by fighting them, and obviously what Nie Mingjue was doing wasn't helping. The only way to survive at this point was to try and control the puppets into working against Wen Ruohan. There's a shot of Lan Wangji before this, where he looks concerned, but I think he even knows that they had no other choice.

This was a short one, sorry! But really, I'm not going to babble about nothing. So much fighting and not a lot of dialogue or other things really happened. We're just getting through major plot points right now to be honest.

Other episodes: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | Or just check out the #CQL Rewatch hashtag

[theyilinglaozus]

With the year ending, let's look back at what we did! What are your favorite creations you did or the ones you think deserve more love? Send this to 5 other creators to share the love

Aww, thank you so much for this message anon! I haven't really thought back on my creations for a little bit - mostly because I've been so swamped with personal goings-on and trying to finish some gift fics for people - but I fully intend on returning to giffing and graphic making within the new year, so this is a perfect opportunity to look back on the things I worked on this year!

1 - Wenzhou 'Can You Feel The Love Tonight?' gifset

This was one of two of my entries for @priestnet's genre remix challenge earlier this year, and it was something I had a ton of fun working on! At first, it was a bit of a struggle, and I was working with that second Zishu gif first. But once I'd figured out the layout and colours for it, the rest of the set seemed to follow the plan I had well. I had a few instances where I had to trim the gifs since they grew too large, but in the end, I'm really proud of how it turned out.

2 - Wei Wuxian and Jin Guangyao Loki quote gifset

This got way more attention than I ever expected it to, considering how it was a very self-indulgent edit. But it made me really happy to see it so well received at the time since I thought the quote was perfect for these two characters, as well as the ongoing theme in The Untamed / MDZS which is that sometimes, 'evil' is more an act of how we choose to handle the circumstances that are often handed to us, as well as how the world decides to view us for those choices we make. That it's not just black and white, but very grey. I love exploring the meta in the shows which I love, and I hope that maybe I can continue doing that more in the new year.

3 - Wangxian 'I Don't Want To Live In A World Without You' gifset I'll admit, although I'm very much content with the attention this did receive, I wish it had done a little better given the time spent on it.

This was a fill I worked on for anniversary requests back when I used to be a member of @mdzsnet ((blows a kiss to the net because I do miss some of the friends I made there at the time, and carry some fond memories)). I think I spent about a week working on this in total, which at the time for me was huge. I was back to reminding myself how bigger, more complex gifsets worked and in a bit of an experimental session, so I really liked how it came out. I ... never did learn who the requester was though? So I hope that if they're still out there, I made something they maybe enjoyed?

4 - Wenzhou 'Touch' fanfiction series

Look, not to toot my own horn here, but I am so damn proud of the work I poured into this series this year. Currently, the series is sitting at 22k words, which is ... pretty big for someone like me whose mostly been writing one-shots in recent years.

I currently have a potential or two other additions to this series I'd like to write and add in the next year - one of them a potential event fill and another will be dependent entirely on my own energy and maybe interest? I have a few other writing projects under my belt for the future too so I'm not too sure which will become the main focus, but I'm really happy as this series made me more engaged in longer fic writing again, which is something I've struggled with for a while now. ... Now just to finish my updated proof of the first installment.

5 - Zhou Zishu 'Castle' gifset This is another one of those 'I really liked how this turned out but why oh why did it not do as well as I hoped notewise' sort of deals (the answer is the tumblr algorithm, but ssh). I was so damn happy with the finished product of this, especially the blending. The only one I probably would change is the last gif - but by that stage, I had gone square-eyed editing for so many days, I just gave up trying to make it blend nicer. I have a few Zhou Zishu gifsets I've been sitting on for a while, but it's only recently that I've felt comfortable and motivated enough to consider digging the plans back up again.

6 - Ghost Valley 'Grim-Grinning Ghosts' gifset

LOL, oh my god. This has to be one of my most self-indulgent surprise hits of the year.

This was made for @priestnet's Hallowed Souls event, and honestly? I was just living my 'it is Halloween and yet again I am not in my second home of Disneyworld like I usually am: time to make a Ghost Valley gifset to the Haunted Mansion theme song :<'

I'm really surprised how good it turned out, especially given I was mostly just playing around with the color settings for part of that. The final Luo Fumeng one will always shock me for how much I love it? Not a purple hue in that scene and yet my dumb brain decided to make it purple anyway.

7 - Wangxian Language Fest gifset

I was so happy with this gifset, and then it didn't do half as well as I'd hoped, and ... I don't know. It's made me a bit hesitant to work on bigger Untamed graphics for a while now. Which is a shame, because I really felt I was learning a lot through them, but the interest just doesn't seem to be there. Anyway, although not my best set by any means, I thought it was a nice one, and I really liked the coloring and the notepaper textures. But I think if I do work on any more Untamed pieces, I'll be sticking to things like my Wei Wuxian in Every Episode challenge instead.

[spockandawe]

Hi.....if you don't mind me asking, what are your top 10 favorite books? And why? Sorry if you've answered this question before....

This is an interesting question, and a difficult one! Which is why I let it steep for a few days while I was in a bookbinding fugue, haha XD

I’m not sure I’ll be able to answer it, because my level of fondness is highly dependent on how recently I read a book/how many times I’ve reread it, with an optional nostalgia modifier if something made a huge impression in my youth. And when I’m picking favorites, as the number of potential [thing] expands, the more I end up dithering and fretting that I’m forgetting something HUGE as I choose. So rather than a selection of top ten, I’ll just run down through some of my favorites! I’ll split it as five cnovels (recent reads, current genre hyperfixation) and five more conventional english-language novel (realistically, probably more like series, unless a standalone book occurs to me), and I’m not going to rank the conventional novels.

SO. Regular novels first. There’s a heavy recently-read/frequently-reread element going on in here. 

The Imperial Radch trilogy, by Ann Leckie. Okay, I am a sucker for a nonhuman protagonist, which is going to pop up in at least two other entries. And I’m also a sucker for themes of what can be perceived about a person externally versus their internal world, and Breq delivers like WHOA. She has SO MUCH going on in her head, and even though we’re in there with her, she still hides lots of her emotions from us. And characters like Seivarden hit me in character development buttons that I’m a sucker for, and the whole idea of consciousness being split across multiple bodies is DELICIOUS to me. Also... love me a sentient spaceship. ‘The Ship Who X’ series by Anne McCaffrey isn’t going to make this list, but I also love it a lot. (also, a universe of ‘she’s made me realized how STARVED i was for that degree of representation in certain genres that i love a lot, but don’t often see myself in as often as i might like)

The Murderbot series, by Martha Wells. Another nonhuman, sometimes-human-passing protagonist! Another one processing MASSIVE trauma of a sort that I, the human reader, have to slow down a lot and try to comprehend from an extremely different life experience! I like that a lot, it really forces me to LINGER on the nature of what a character is feeling. And oh my god, Murderbot’s voice is one of my favorite pov voices of all time. And watching it work (or go hogwild on its own asdfdgd) is absolutely delightful. I love literally everything about this series, except what happened with Miki. Other than that? Flawless.

The Books Of The Raksura, by Martha Wells. Martha Wells is a DELIGHT, y’all. Also! Another heavily-traumatized, nonhuman protagonist! And this time, like... It’s a fantasy world with huge amounts of sentient species, and the protagonist grew up away from his people, who are basically a bunch of feral homesteaders (LOVE THAT), and is trying to figure out how to reintegrate into their societal structures as an adult. That desperate desire to belong and feeling of discomfort and not-fitting-in, and the connections he makes and the way he DOES find a way to fit... like if u crey every time. Also, as far as we’re shown, it’s a cheerfully bisexual, polyamorous society, and *grabby hands*

Discworld, by Terry Pratchett. God, what do I even say about this series. It was a PARADIGM SHIFT. It’s bitingly funny, and also just plain biting, and full of huge varieties of interesting stories, set in a fascinating world, with a series of protagonists who I love too much for words. Vimes! The witches! Moist!!! They’re all so WONDERFUL. I still haven’t read the last book in the series yet, because then it will be Over Forever, and I can’t deal. This one is heavily nostalgia-tinted, but also, I stand by it.

The Belgariad/Mallorean, by David Eddings. Okay. Also very nostalgia, and the choice I can justify the least. But these books CLICKED with me. I’m afraid to reread them, because I’ve been wallowing in queer fiction for so long I’m worried about what the compulsory heterosexuality will feel like, and I know both series are very... episodic, in a way that isn’t necessarily great literature. But I dunno! Feels good, man. It’s high fantasy with a magical system I like, segmented worldbuilding of a sort that isn’t necessarily WELL-MADE, but it’s like... comfortable and easy. And something about the style and the character voices just clicks with me. I have no idea how well these hold up in the present day, but I do love them, and I’ve been planning to reread at least The Redemption Of Althalus by the same author as a standalone before I commit to a 12-book rereading of this universe, but.... I like em XD

--

Cnovels! I think I can rank these, so let’s go for it.

Fifth favorite: The Disabled Tyrant’s Pet Palm Fish :B Look, it’s ridiculous. It’s a transmigration story where the lead enters this fictional universe in the body of a fish, where he is adopted by a prince who eventually falls in love with him, and YES IT IS TAGGED MPREG, BUT HOLD ON A MOMENT-- I don’t know! I came here to point and laugh, but I’m honestly having such a good time right now. It’s really cute! And sweet! The main character is delightful, and the love interest is that particular flavor of semi-socialized upper-class young man, where like, can he do court politics? yes. can he politely express his affections for the main character? uh....... less so. It’s a really fun read, and I felt very sincere emotions about this prince who is passionately, deeply in love with his pet fish!

Fourth favorite: Mmmmmm, Mo Dao Zu Shi, I think. I struggle here, because it is NOT an easy book to read or show to watch, but having consumed the story, I love it to PIECES. I know a big draw for me is the protagonist, specifically, and his relationships to the people around him. And the more I cared about him, the more I wound up caring about the people around him, who I’d kind of neglected before, if that makes sense? It’s a story that really rewards some good old pondering. I didn’t care that much about Lan Xichen, but then I started thinking about how Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji relate to Lan Xichen, and then oh no, I care SO MUCH about his emotions, and now I’m thinking more deeply about how Lan Xichen relates to Jin Guangyao and Nie Mingjue-- It does lose points in this ranking because it IS hard to get into, and I would struggle to keep everyone straight even more if I didn’t have the show visuals to lean on, but it is still story I enjoyed VERY much.

Third favorite: Erha, but I feel REALLY, REALLY BAD that I can’t fit Yuwu on this list too, and I just want to loop them together. It’s time travel fixit fic, but it’s the book! Yes????? I love this. I love the striking character growth we get to see, and the changing perception of the world as the main character relives through events he already experienced and sees things in a new light, and I adore how Mo Ran’s growing guilt goes hand in hand with his growing love. And Meatbun in general... like, my god. I haven’t read another author who’s able to yank me through emotional whiplash so hard and fast. She makes me hoot with laughter one moment and then burst into tears the next. It’s absolutely wild. I love mxtx, and I think svsss/tgcf are gentler entry points into the genre and deal with lighter themes, but meatbun is seriously an UNBELIEVABLE writer if you can deal with the darker topics she covers.

Second favorite: The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System :V Look, I love it. I just love it. I love, again, characters dealing with the aftereffects of old trauma, plus I do also love seeing NEW trauma piled on top of it. I love having a main character with emotional dysregulation issues who doesn’t necessarily make good decisions, but doesn’t just leave me thinking ‘jfc what an asshole’, and I think that’s a really hard balance for an author to strike, especially without us getting direct pov. I love themes of being wanted and insecurity about being wanted, which is Luo Binghe’s major, major damage. And this is my first transmigration story I ever read, and the contrast between a main character who read the novel telling us about what’s totally going to happen versus the ground shifting under his feet is INCREDIBLY delightful to me. I’ve read other transmigration stories I enjoyed, but none that got my attention quite as much as this one.

First favorite: Tian Guan Ci Fu ;u; It’s so good. It’s so well-made! It’s so LONG, and it meanders, but also, I would scream if anyone tried to trim anything out of it. I am here a lot for the ship, honestly, but I also find the plot themes VERY interesting. I am very much here for reading about characters trying to process old trauma that’s been dredged up by new events, and also very here for the themes about how characters either pass their traumas along to the next generation, or try to shield the next generation from taking the same kind of damage (see: mdzs). And I’m also very much into tempering stories about pain with like... memories of kindness, and small acts of kindness repaid with an outpouring of devotion (see: svsss). But the craftsmanship in this book is just... DIVINE. I’m always reluctant to start rereading this one, because I have a terrible time stopping. There’s nothing about this book that I don’t like.

[songofclarity]

While I am not entirely onboard with fandom trying to make Nie MingJue an Aquarius...

One of the most compatible matches for Aquarius is Sagittarius

My low-key headcanon birthday for Wen RuoHan is December 21 (the winter solstice) which would make him a Sagittarius, and that does feel like it hits a good spot

And because I am a simple person, if popular fandom headcanons support the ship I like, I am more willing to buy in lol

(Below are just some preliminary thoughts and I make no claim to be an expert on horoscopes!)

I also liked what this article had to say on a Aquarius and Sagittarius romantic match:

Sagittarius and Aquarius share a lust for life that sparks an instant attraction. Both signs are comfortable with letting the other maintain their independence, and they appreciate not having to fight for their freedom in the relationship. Because Sagittarius and Aquarius are willing to be open with one another, they'll find their lives are filled with curiosity and wonder.

But the dark side of this anything-goes arrangement is that both Sag and Aquarius are commitment phobic. You'll often see this pair in very long-term relationships, but they hesitate to put a label on anything. This can come from a fear of the mundane, not from an inability to love on another! If Sagittarians and Aquarians understand that their unwillingness to commit comes from a deep respect for the other person's independence, then their relationship will thrive.

A relationship built on mutual respect and personal independence is quite suiting for them both! The idea of them being in a long-term relationship without a label perfectly fits with how I've spoken of their brand of relationship before (such as in the modern AU)

Wen RuoHan also checks all five boxes on the listed traits that make him a good match for an Aquarius:

Hospitality (Guests cultivators love coming and staying with the Wen Sect and we consistently see Wen RuoHan being a good and listening host)

A Good Sense of Humor (We see him being rather lighthearted, sharing a simple teasing moment with his subordinate after they just fended off a life-or-death situation)

Eclectic Interests (There is definitely room to call his interests as such, especially considering the diverse types of people he becomes closest to and how it's suggested that he doesn't do things normally)

Complexity (A man who is thought to not do things normally, who gets along with a diverse group of people, and has eclectic interests is definitely one full of surprises and mystery)

Independence (He listens to others but keeps the final word. That he would send his most loyal subordinate away and let his children run off to do as they please suggests he is not clingy)

Wen RuoHan even avoids all five traits that would make him a bad match for Aquarius:

Snobbishness (Avoided! Everyone is welcome to the Qishan Wen, and he even picks the same subordinate Nie MingJue had once picked)

Stoicism (Avoided! We see him speaking openly and laugh in good humor. Wen ZhuLiu's thoughts reveal Wen RuoHan is someone who has a heart and would not sit idly by if problems arose)

Nosiness (Avoided! We see other people volunteering unnecessary things about other people, but he himself never asks and certainly never pries deeper into other's business or old wounds)

Inflexibility (Avoided! He might actual be TOO flexible considering his moral scale can slide from Wen Qing to Meng Yao and back again, but that is what gives Nie MingJue reasonable hope for him lol)

Possessiveness (Avoided! His children go out to do as the want, he waits for his rebellious ally to return to him once they realize the mistake they made, and he sends off his most loyal follower to stand by someone else's side.)

At the same time, Sagittarius Wen RuoHan is very compelling and fits surprising well, I think!

Nie MingJue doesn't do too poorly checking the three boxes that make him a good match for a Sagittarius:

Honesty (This man does not know how to lie even to save his own life)

A Sense of Adventure (Letting sworn brothers play magical music to mess with his mind is adventurous, no? lol While he might not have hobbies outside of cultivation and work, there is room to suggest he's more than willing to jump up and go out the door when adventure/necessity calls. Remember that all the "gifts" Jin GuangYao tries and fails to bribe him with are stuff, not activities or experiences or destinations)

Curiosity (we might see more of this side of him if opportunities presented themselves and his brothers weren't lying to/manipulating/avoiding him on the regular. One example: we see him showing non-judgemental curiosity about Wei WuXian not carrying his sword, but the Twin Jades weren't interested in delving into it so the conversation ended there.)

To make up for any mediocre efforts above, he shines on avoiding all three traits that would make him a bad match for Sagittarius:

Pessimism (Avoided! Nie MingJue encourages and supports others to reaching their goals and potential. Plus he's all about those blood, sweat, and tears to get shit done. Follow your dreams! Keeping check and shouting Stop when the means clearly don't justify the ends, however, doesn't make him pessimistic)

Stickler for Rules (Avoided! Nie MingJue remembers the rules and he might press for them when it's life-or-death, but he's actually pretty lax most of the time, such as when he reminds Lan XiChen against spilling Lan Sect secrets, and then says nothing more on the matter)

Clinginess (Avoided! Nie MingJue himself is independent and he literally tried to send both sworn brothers away to focus on their own business at one point. We never see him visiting Cloud Recesses and his visits to Koi Tower were strictly business. Even Nie HuaiSang, the spoiled baby brother, gets more than his fair share of independence while living with Nie MingJue)

It amuses me how Sagittarius only has 3 good/bad match traits while Aquarius has 5. Nie MingJue is more reserved and thus has more demands on those who can get close to him while Wen RuoHan by all means appears pretty relaxed and laid back, which I feel makes these numbers suit both their characters quite well.

Bonus:

[xiyao-feels]

Nie//yao (MDZS)

So NMJ/JGY is actually getting two versions, because my read on them is wildly different for MDZS vs CQL.

In MDZS I...don't ship it? I mean, there just doesn't seem to be to be anything there at all of a romantic or sexual nature. It's not that they don't care about each other, they clearly do, but it's in a way that is...NMJ as substitute father, JGY as substitute brother, and heavily, heavily inflected by their (current and then former) relationship as superior and subordinate.

Putting this behind a cut because a) it's me explaining at breath length with quotes why I don't think they have a romantic or sexual relationship and I don't want people to have to see that unless they want and b) accordingly it is REALLY LONG and I also don't want to clutter people's dashes, so.

Actually backing up a step, I don't see MDZS NMJ as being attracted to anyone, that's not really specific to JGY. I tend to read him as aspec, tbh. So theoretically he could have romantic feelings about JGY without being attracted to him—I think he may have some quasi-romantic feelings for LXC, though I don't think he conceptualizes it that way—but... honestly, it's not really clear to me that he even likes JGY as a person.

I'm not saying he doesn't like JGY! He clearly does, at least before MY tricks him and flees. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with MY's personality, as opposed to like—MY being really competent and conducting himself well.

Some quotes about what exactly NMJ values about JGY:

'Nie MingJue interrupted him, “I promoted you not because I wanted you to give back anything out of gratitude. I simply thought that you should stay in this position, since you are capable enough and your conduct is to my liking. If you really want to pay me back, just kill a few more of those Wen-dogs on the battlefield!”'

'After [Meng Yao] left [for Langya], Nie MingJue switched to another deputy. Wei WuXian, however, felt that the new one was always a few beats slower. Meng Yao was an unusually clever talent. He could understand what wasn’t said, and perform to the best with the simplest orders. He was efficient and never slacked. Anyone used to him wouldn’t be able to refrain from comparing him with others.'

'Nie MingJue was never close to people. He rarely opened up to anyone. Though he finally managed to obtain a competent, trustworthy subordinate, whose character and capabilities he approved, he found that the subordinate’s true colors were nothing like what he had thought they were. It was only natural that his reaction was so extreme.'

'Wei WuXian had once found it strange as well. Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.'

Jin GuangYao spoke with dejection, “But, Brother, didn’t you hear what he said in the oath? Every sentence meant something more. ‘Face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb’—this was clearly a warning for me. I… I’ve never heard of such an oath before.”

Lan XiChen replied in a gentle voice, “He said ‘if one were to think otherwise’. Do you think otherwise? If not, then why should you worry over it so much?"

Jin GuangYao, “I don’t, but Brother has already decided that I do, so what can I do?”

Lan XiChen, “He has always cherished your talent, hoping that you would choose the right path.”

You might notice a recurring theme here: there's a lot of focus JGY's competence and conduct. But anything about who JGY is as a person? Not so much.

They clearly had a good superior/subordinate relationship going on, albeit one in which NMJ was missing a lot of context (see just behave well and show people up, plus the you're missing a solid foundation thing). But it does seem to be basically professional. WWX describes them as conversing "peaceably, even impressively" in contrast to "his future self, always being scolded by Nie MingJue" and "those jokes of how 'LianFang-Zun fled whenever he heard that ChiFeng-Zun arrived,'" and.... that's kind of it. The closest we get to them as friends is them talking together with LXC after NMJ tells MY he will give him a letter of recommendation and send him to his father; as WWX describes it, "The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so."

That's definitely not nothing! But it's also the most we ever get, only shows up the once, and is explicitly contrasted with their conversation from earlier. Moreover, I'm pretty sure LXC's presence is a necessary part of things; NMJ tends to respond differently to LXC than to other people (even just earlier in this chapter, we're told that while "Nie MingJue had never been one for humour," "in front of Lan XiChen his expression eased"), and WWX explicitly notes LXC's conversation skills in the context of this conversation: "At this point in time, their relationship really isn't bad. Zewu-Jun is actually quite good at holding conversations, so why is Lan Zhan so bad at it?"

In addition, I'd say that looking at the early part of that conversation is quite telling; while LXC and MY are sitting together as equals, MY stand up at once the moment NMJ interrupts, and doesn't sit even after NMJ tells him to do so (I think he probably does take a seat at some point, but the narrative doesn't actually tell us when). Moreover, MY seems to be worried that NMJ will be offended by a possible lack of gratitude on MY's part ("Sect Leader Nie, if you heard everything, then you should've also heard me say that..."), and the only objection he expresses to leaving is precisely that he owes NMJ a debt of gratitude, not anything to do with, like, missing him. To me all the evidence suggests that while they had a close relationship, it was not a /personal/ relationship, but fundamentally one of superior and subordinate.

(For a close read of the scene where NMJ, LXC and MY are talking together, I highly recommend @confusion-and-more's post here)

Moving on, let's look at after JGY becomes JGY. They don't seem to particularly spend time together with each other, certainly not for the sake of it. There's a brief moment at the Flower Banquet where NMJ asks JGY why he's wasting his time with XY (who has not at this point in time committed his crime, he just has a reputation), but after JGY makes his excuse and scurries away, NMJ turns away and doesn't seem to seek him out or even pay him any particular attention for the rest of the scene; he only shows up once more, and that's following WWX. (And although JGY-as-replacement-NHS would be a post all on its own, I do think it's interesting to note that the exchange about XY is immediately followed by LXC and LWJ coming over, described in a way that highlights both their impressiveness and their status at brothers—their Twin Jade-ness, one might say.) During the guqin scene, NMJ only speaks once, and it's to address LXC—to protest the inappropriateness of LXC leaking exclusive Lan techniques. When JGY shows up to play the guqin for him the first time, NMJ asks JGY "what did you come here for," which suggests that NMJ is not generally expecting JGY to come by without a specific, concrete reason. The closest they ever seem to get after JGY becomes JGY is during these guqin-playing sessions, and as WWX describes it, "when playing the guqin, the way that the two conversed and got along even had a hint of the peace they had before they fell out"—which is certainly better than there being no peace at all, but which I think suggests there's still at least some tension, given that it's only a "hint."

Now, NMJ certainly cares about JGY, both in the sense of desiring his well-being, at first, and absolutely in the sense of being emotionally invested in him—even after his death, as a fierce corpse his only desire is to kill Jin Guangyao. But while they had a close superior-subordinate relationship—certainly NMJ seems to have felt close to MY—at no point was it a close personal relationship, and I don't think that NMJ even liked JGY (or MY, I'm using the name expansively) as a person, let alone was in love with him.

But mostly so far I've been focusing in NMJ's feelings. What about JGY? Is /he/ in love with NMJ?

Once again, I just don't read him that way. This isn't to say he didn't care for NMJ—he absolutely did! He goes to quite significant lengths to save his life from WRH in the Sun Palace, including quite a lot of risk to MY himself—I analyze that in a lot more depth in the first part of my post here, if you're interested, though I will also note now that he specifically sent for LXC to help NMJ. (You'll have to scroll down some; I'm responding to someone else's post.) Afterwards, he kneels to NMJ and apologizes, I think sincerely, for hurting him and for invoking his pain about his father's death. He certainly conceives of himself as owing a debt of gratitude to NMJ for recognizing him, and he's so overcome when NMJ offers to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation, saying that he didn't promote MY so that MY would owe him, that he quite remarkably can't even find words. NMJ meant a lot to him, and so did NMJ's not defining him in terms of his birth—until he did, of course, at the stairs kick incident. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing to suggest he has /romantic feelings/ for NMJ, and frankly—how can I put this—it does not at all surprise me that JGY isn't in love with someone with a violent temper who is noted at least twice to react to people explaining themselves when he is angry with even more anger, and that's even without the thing where he nearly killed JGY on multiple occasions and called him the son of a prostitute.

No, I think JGY's emotional journey with NMJ goes through three stages: first, he's deeply grateful to him and respects him a great deal, although he's also aware of NMJ's lack of awareness of certain social realities (see: the teacup scene, NMJ yelling at the other Nie cultivators about their treatment of MY and telling MY not to worry as long as his conduct is upright); second, after Sun Palace, still gratitude and respect but also a mounting frustration with his lack of awareness of the implications of JGY's social position and his hypocrisy re: acceptable violence; finally, after the stairs kick when NMJ kicks him down the stairs, almost kills him, and tells him what else can be expected from the son of a prostitute, he is completely done with NMJ, but is still very much scared of him. The gratitude, I've discussed; the frustration, I think is fairly obvious in the speech he gives back to NMJ at the stairs. But I think the fear is often undervalued, so I'm going to pull a bunch of quotes again:

Meng Yao shrunk immediately after his previous outburst. Watching Baxia slash toward him, he sprinted off at once, scared lifeless. Of the two, one striked with madness and the other fled with madness. Both staggered, still soaked in blood. In such amusing circumstances, as Wei WuXian chopped at the future Chief Cultivator, in his heart he split his sides laughing. He thought that if not for how Nie MingJue was under heavy injuries and lacked spiritual power, Meng Yao would probably have been dead already.

Baxia’s strikes were so menacing that Shuoyue had to unsheath. Lan XiChen stopped him, half to support his figure and half to block his attacks, “MingJue-xiong, calm down! Why bother?”

Nie MingJue, “Why don’t you ask what he did?!”

Lan XiChen turned around to look at Meng Yao, his face was full of terror. He stammered as if he didn’t dare speak.

Nie MingJue remained silent, while Baxia and Shuoyue continued. Meng Yao took a glimpse at the glares from the clashes of the saber and the sword, his gaze full of fear. After a while, however, he still took a step forward. He kneeled to Nie MingJue.

A moment later, Nie MingJue still raised his saber. Lan XiChen, “MingJue-xiong!”

Meng Yao shut his eyes. Lan XiChen also tightened his grip on Shuoyue, “Please excuse…”

Before he could finish his sentence, the silver light of the blade slashed down violently, onto a boulder on the side.

Meng Yao flinched from the thunder of the boulder splitting apart. Looking over, he saw that it had been sliced into two halves, from the top to the bottom.

Jin GuangYao nodded. Xue Yang had been infamous ever since he was young. Wei WuXian clearly felt Nie MingJue’s brows knit even tighter. He spoke, “Why are you wasting your time with such a person?”

Jin GuangYao, “The LanlingJin Sect recruited him.”

He didn’t dare to protest any further. Excuse being that he needed to care for the guests, he scurried to the other side.

[part of his speech to NMJ at the stairs] You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I'm afraid of everything, even other people!

Within the temple, three people called Nie MingJue’s corpse ‘Brother’ but the three tones were drastically different. Jin GuangYao’s face was full of a drowning fear. His entire body began to shiver. No matter dead or alive, the person Jin GuangYao was most scared of was none but this sworn brother of his whose temper tolerated no evil. As his body shivered, his hands shivered as well, and the bloody guqin string he clutched tightly in his hand also began to shiver.

Clenching his teeth, Jin GuangYao struck a few acupoints of his arm. Amidst the dizziness that came from a loss of blood, he suddenly saw Nie MingJue walk a step towards him, his eyes locked on him. He was immediately half-dead with fear.

Collapsed beside Lan XiChen, Jin GuangYao saw this scene as well. Whether because the bleeding and the pain intensified at his arm and stomach or from some other reason, the glisten of tears could be seen in his eyes. But before he had a chance to catch his breath or lick his wounds, Nie MingJue turned around after he pulled his fist back and stared hungrily in his direction.

The harsh, stern expression on his rigid face held a sense of judgement that was no different from before he died. Even his tears had been scared away as Jin GuangYao turned to Lan XiChen for help, his voice trembling, “Brother…”

I think the stuff with, you know, handling NMJ's fierce corpse and hanging onto his head is often viewed as evidence of JGY's continued emotional investment in NMJ, but... I don't really think so? First of all, NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY. I'll spare you another round of quotes on that because this is already ridiculously long and because it's not at all subtle—it's all over the temple chapters, take a look! And second of all—well, there's ways of getting information from a corpse. In this case, NMJ's resentful energy is so strong that without the protection of his body, papernan WWX is actually sucked into NMJ's memories against his will! Sure, maybe no one would risk it, and maybe no one who risked it would survive, but especially given that NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY, that's a heck of a risk to take. And look at the description of the protections around NMJ's head:

Suddenly, Wei WuXian noticed that one of the shelves were blocked by a curtain. The curtain was covered in sinister, blood-red runes. It was a talisman of forbiddance, one of extreme power.

Jin GuangYao walked over and lifted the curtain.

For a split second, Wei WuXian thought that he had been exposed. After the faint firelight made its way through the curtain, he found that he was enveloped in a shadow. A circular object just happened to be in front of him.

Jin GuangYao stood still, as though he was staring into the eyes of whatever was inside this shelf.

After a moment, he spoke, “Were you the one looking at me?"

Of course, there couldn’t be any response. He was silent for a while, then let down the curtain.

Wei WuXian quietly attached himself to the object. Cold and hard, it seemed to be a helmet. He then turned to the front. As he had expected, he saw a pallid face. The one who sealed the head wanted it to see nothing, hear nothing, speak nothing, and so incantations had been crowded onto the waxen skin. The eyes, the ears, and the mouth were all sealed tightly shut.

There's containment, it's suppressed to all hell and back, and JGY quite justifiably expects it to be murderously obsessed with him, but to me it doesn't suggest a reciprocal obsession—just more fear.

I'll also note that as a strategy for containing the information about his own involvement it's a very successful operation! It failed in the end /eventually/, but the failure needed:

someone who could successfully break into his private treasure room and escape without being caught

who could also perform Empathy or a similar tecnnique on NMJ's head and survive it

who could successfully recreate from memory the altered Empathy song

whom LXC would be willing to listen to

That's a heck of a tall order!

As to being done with NMJ after the stairs, well, listen to what he says to LXC:

Jin GuangYao spoke with dejection, “But, Brother, didn’t you hear what he said in the oath? Every sentence meant something more. ‘Face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb’—this was clearly a warning for me. I… I’ve never heard of such an oath before.”

[...]

Jin GuangYao, “It’s not that I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong, but that sometimes I really can’t help. Nowadays, I have it bad no matter which side I’m on. I have to ensure that I’m on everyone’s good sides. I wouldn’t care if it were someone else, but have I mistreated our eldest brother in any way? Brother, you heard as well. What did he call me?”

[...]

Jin GuangYao was almost sobbing, “If he could say such a thing when he was angry, then just how does he think of me on a daily basis? Is it that because I couldn’t choose my background, because my mother couldn’t choose her fate, I’ll have to be humiliated by others throughout my whole life? If so, then how is Brother different from the people who look down on me? No matter what I do, in the end, just a sentence and I’m ‘the son of a prostitute’.”

And then of course there's what he says to LXC, in his speech to him at the end: "You, on the other hand, ZeWu-Jun, Sect Leader Lan, are as intolerant of me as Nie MingJue—you refuse to spare me even a single breath of life!"

So—wow, this got very long—I don't ship them, and although I think they have very much mattered emotionally to each other, I don't really see them as ever having been in love with or attracted to each other.

A couple of end notes:

In MDZS, NMJ isn't the first (non-MS) person who recognizes MY's worth, although he is the first person to promote him; by the time NMJ promotes MY MY has already met, rescued, and exchanged intimate confidences with LXC, who respects him greatly and thinks he is highly talented (see again the conversation in Hejian which NMJ overhears/eavedrops on).

I've seen people talk about them not understanding each other, but while NMJ certainly doesn't understand JGY, it's not at all obvious that the reverse is true; he generally seems to understand him pretty well. I think he has two surprises overall: first, that he wasn't expecting NMJ to say he didn't promote MY so MY would owe him, and volunteer to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation—and second, he wasn't expecting NMJ, who for all his flaws did seem to ignore JGY's background in good ways as well as bad, to call him the son of a prostitute.

I definitely don't read the coffin at the end as romantic. Or I mean, uh, there's the romance of an obsessive stalker-murderer finally getting his victim, and that's not nothing (unironically; look, I'm a Hannibal fan), but I don't think it's usually what people mean. This is a shitty end for JGY, part of how thoroughly he loses and is destroyed. I think to some extent it might be that he doesn't want LXC to be the one who killed him, and to some extent it's an act of defiance—now that he has nothing to lose, not even his life, he's going to go out fighting. I would expand on this but this post is ridiculously long and I have way too many quotes, maybe I'll do it in a separate post later on—but if you look at the description of it in the text, plus the subsequent description of it in the coffin...yeah. JGY didn't want to die, he didn't want to be engaged in a mutually destructive thing with NMJ; he wanted to leave NMJ behind in the past, and move on. It's not, for him any kind of fulfillment, is my read.

All quotes are taken from the Exiled Rebels translation: ch 48-50 for everything about NMJ and JGY's past relationship, ch. 47 for the description of JGY's containment measures for NMJ's head, and ch. 106-108 for the quotes about JGY's fear of NMJ's fierce corpse. The description of JGY going into the coffin is at the end of 108 if you want to have a look, and there's more in 109 and 110 about the difficulty of sealing NMJ's fierce corpse/its power and violence.