#i feel like this is probably different from the way some badger secondaries can be Easily Swayed

[wisteria-lodge]

badger primary + rapid fire/actor bird secondary

Hi! I’ve passively loved this system for a couple of years now but it’s only now that I’ve discovered that you actually do real people sorts! Anyway, I am pretty sure of being a Snake primary, but I’ll have you be the judge of that.

My Dad is a double Snake, however, my Mum I think is a Badger/Lion and this obviously creates a lot of conflict between them. I really care about both of them and though me & dad understand each other better on a fundamental level, he can also be quite a harsh and manipulative person (he has the typical Snake secondary thing where he tells you whatever you want to hear until you get close to him or he’s exhausted enough  to let the masks drop, and at that point he becomes quite harsh, which my Badger/Lion mum does NOT like, and she especially doesn’t like how “fake” he is), and my Mum always reacted very negatively to my behaving like him. 

A Double Snake and and Badger Lion could easily have periods of looking very similar, and very in sync, and then just… circumstances change and they couldn’t be more different. That’s a tricky one to navigate. So you’ve got a bit of cultural negativity surrounding Snake secondary, noted. 

So I kind of spent most of my life feeling torn because the two people I cared about the most had very opposing expectations of my personality

Definitely getting inklings of a Loyalist primary (Badger or Snake.) 

my Mum’s love in particular felt very conditional even though she was always very supportive of all my intellectual endeavors.

I spent the first 18-ish years of my life with “saying whatever I need to get what I want” as my primary strategy in life 

Definitely sounds quite Snake secondary (sounds a lot like your Dad’s Snake.) 

 and constructing a “cool, popular girl” personality that would give me enough social capital to get whatever I want.

Oooh, have we got some Bird secondary going on? Because this sounds like it could be Actor Bird. The very conscious way you went about building “Cool, Popular Girl” (even using words like “constructing”) and fact that this persona has a name, probably had a costume, and is purpose-built for a specific environment, not a specific person... sounds very Bird.

What I wanted, though, wasn’t anything particularly ambitious: I’m very conflict averse so I made shit up to avoid conflict. 

I associate this with Snake and Bird, the two “I move” secondaries. They’re water, flowing around obstacles. Lions and oddly Badgers are far more likely to pick fights. 

I wanted to be have strong “ride or die” friendships with people I could protect and who could protect me in turn (I first wrote “group of friends” but I now realize that I kind of struggle with groups of people - I just never have the feeling of being part of a group, just having ties with individual people, so I guess I want to be part of a group in the sense of having ties of affection and loyalty with several people who also have them with each other).

This is such heavily Snake primary-coded language, that I’m kinda wondering if that’s on purpose, and you’re looking for a specific answer from me… :) 

However, because what I got from my mum and, quite honestly, the media I liked was basically “my personality=villain.” I tended to seek out other people perceived as “villains” as some way because I felt that they would accept me more easily. 

I wish it weren’t the case, but you’re right, that’s a common thing. Especially if you’re a Double Snake or a Snake Bird, which I think are your two most likely sortings right now. 

I also really hated people who treated their friends badly or arrogantly and tended to bully them 

I mean that’s the human thing, but it’s definitely something that would bother a Loyalist (Snake or Badger primary) a LOT. 

there was this one swotty girl who was constantly looking down at her friends and treating them badly, and I just decided to make her life living hell because I was so morally affronted by it. 

I’d love to know exactly what your strategies were, because that would tell me a lot about your secondary. But there does seem to be a suggestion that there was a Mean-Girls-stye *plan* here, which kind of makes me think Bird. 

Another friend also abandoned us and found another friend group where everyone was basically in love with him and he was using them for attention seeking purposes and I also reacted to this quite harshly.

“Abandon” is a very dramatic word to describe a friend [entering a slight fuckboy phase?] and switching friend groups. 

The thing is, I also tended to abandon some people, which doesn’t clash well a Snake primary, I guess? One of my HS friend groups were really quite asshole-ish, and I ended up ditching them, but that was because I felt like they were treating other close people (of theirs, not mine) badly? 

Okay. So here’s what I think is going on. You’re a Badger. Hear me out. 

Yes, I think that your Badger looked like a Snake for a good long while. But you’re close to your Dad, and your Dad’s a Snake, and young Badgers will do that, look like authority figures or beloved people in their community. It really hurts you that your parents are not a united unit, not a community. A Snake would have an easier time just having separate relationships with each of them, even if they didn’t get along. Same thing with your friend that switched friend groups. That’s a very Badger way of looking at the situation. The Snake thing would be, well - he’s your friend, and it doesn’t really matter what group he’s him. But a Badger would want him to stay in the better group, the group that was better for him. 

You hate it when people mistreat their group. You hate bullies (Captain America style.) That’s all Badger. You also talk about multiple, conflicting groups of friends, and that whole “Cool Popular Girl” - I mean, it’s not exclusive to Badger primaries, bit it is definitely a very common way for High School Badger primaries to present. 

I had also decided to start taking school and stuff more seriously and I just kind of felt like their affection would be conditional on my bad bitch persona, got scared and ran? It was a long time ago, I don’t really remember.

This is Bird secondary thing. Getting “suck” in a persona, and worrying that people only like you / you only have value because of it. 

The turnpoint came when I met my first serious boyfriend, who is definitely a Snake secondary but I’m honestly not sure if he’s a Snake or a Bird primary.

The so far elaborately constructed web of lies and reputation building that was my life led to the downfall of our relationship, because it combined with some external circumstances made trust difficult

You have a complicated relationship with Snake secondaries, but you yourself are a Bird. “Construction,” “reputation building,” the web metaphor… it sounds like a Bird. That’s just not how Snake secondaries think. 

what I somehow got out of it was a deep fear of betrayal and abandonment 

and possibly Burned your primary a little bit (probably another reason you’re picking Snake for yourself, Burnt Badgers look like Snakes. 

and the impression that if I wanted people to love me and stay by my side, I should be very open about who I am (so that I’m sure that it’s me that they’re loyal to and not their personal image of me), and just try to be the kind of kind, morally upstanding person that people couldn’t fault for anything.

These are two mutually exclusive goals. If you’re totally honest and open about who you are (the Lion secondary thing) - then you will absolutely ruffle some feathers and rub people the wrong way. It’s a totally different approach than being the “kind [person] that people couldn’t fault for anything.” (Which is more of a badger thing.)

Forcing myself to act like this led to a plethora of mental health issues because being very open about who I am is just… not who I am? 

You also just set yourself for failure. There is literally no way you could have achieved what you set out to achieve. And how is “forcing” yourself to act a certain way more open and genuine? It sounds like you built a Badger secondary model out of fear, and just sat in it for a while.

And it was very anxiety-inducing for me. Even now, when my mental health is much better and I’ve settled into who I am, I like showing off my playfulness and wit and keeping the rest of my personality behind a neutrally charming mask.

And that’s… good? Normal? That’s also very Bird. Just have a charming, Badger-flavored ‘customer service’ face that you wear as you go through the world. Go into Neutral when you feel comfortable. (Birds go into Neutral very much like Snakes do, but the change usually isn’t as dramatic.) 

Also, my success until that point was based on a lot of improvisation and quick thinking, and while I kept that to a point, it also always led to a bunch of moral panic because in my head, being this kind of person is what gets you abandoned.

Rapid-Fire Bird. There’s a little bit of your Bird coming through here, in that you want a foundation, you don’t want to just do the Snake thing. 

Anyway, I was a psychology major (I always liked understanding how people tick and how to get them to see or do what  you want them to without having to explicitly argue with them or convince them)

Very Bird. 

but I felt alienated with the “bleeding heart helping profession!!” people around me.

I am not at all surprised that the profession skews Badger secondary, and that it did not feel at all good being around all those Badger secondaries... when you’ve got such a messy relationship with your Badger model. 

I eventually settled for doing research on children growing up in harsh circumstances who develop externalizing symptoms, but it was just because throughout my life I met a lot of people like that and a lot of my close people are “misunderstood” because they sometimes behave harshly due to their harsh upbringings, so I wanted to vindicate them in a way, as well as vindicate myself because I cared about explaining why people sometimes act less than morally and yet can still be loyal and worthy of love and not automatically “bad people”.

I love this for you. It seems like this would just fit into your primary so nicely. You’ve got a category of people, who are your people and you’re going to vindicate them, and protect them - especially from other people seeking to dehumanize them. It’s so Badger, but in that lovely universal way. 

In the meanwhile, I kind of developed a Badger primary model, I guess, in that I do dedicate a lot of my time to helping people

… or you were a Badger all along…

 and being kind and open and inviting

yeah, that has absolutely nothing to do with being a Badger primary. I’m serious. That’s just your neutrally-charming mask. 

but whenever this is put to the test my Snake loyalties always always come first. 

I honestly haven’t seen this so far. The only individuals you’ve talked about are your parents (who bothered you by not being a group, your fuckboy friend (who left the group) and your first boyfriend, who you broke up with. 

And I also still always get morally outraged when people are disloyal to their close ones or treat them badly, 

This your primary talking. (your why, what gets you out of bed in the morning)

whereas the general kindness and the work I put in towards making sure the world is a kinder, fairer place is just something that I do, no emotional attachment to it, and I don’t expect other people to do it at all.

This is your badger secondary model talking. (how you go about doing things, how you present to the world.) Both Badger, yes. EXTREMELY different. 

I honestly don’t think a lot about morality, aside from the generic “be kind and try not to fuck people over unless you really have to”

I mean, you did just say. “I also still always get morally outraged when people are disloyal to their close ones or treat them badly.” I think you just must not consider that sort of thing… really morality, in some way. But Badgers get their morality from their group. Their highest moral good is to make sure the group is doing okay. It doesn’t have to be more complicated than that. 

rationally constructing a system of morality or trying to arrive at some kind of internal hunch both feel kind of empty to me? 

Because you’re not a Bird or Lion primary? Of course it does. 

Now, as for the secondary, my knee jerk reaction is to say Bird because I’m in research, and ever since childhood I’ve always been a very logical person. I’ve eventually learned to be quite systemic in my problem solving process because I need it for research, but what I like about this career is the problem solving aspect of it, like you have a goal (for example, an effective psychosocial information or the acquisition of a certain kind of information) and you have to figure out how to get to that information. Basically the most efficient way of getting from A to B.

 I make sure to be systemic and thorough and analytical because it’s the most surefire way to get things right in my line of work, but I also take pleasure in kind of categorizing and putting information in order, and connecting it along different lines. I also really care about proper methodology and not half-assing things to get the results that you want, because I think that the results that you want are the results that are accurate and useful in the real world, not the ones that make you look better.

Wait, am I a double Snake?

Okay, now you’ve got ME worried - I must have really screwed up explaining something, because how can you write something THAT bird secondary, love systems as much as you do… and arrive at the conclusion that you’re a Snake? 

What I know for sure is that I absolutely do not identify with “knowledge for knowledge’s sake”, but I do have a really broad criteria for what “useful knowledge” is because I’m capable of thinking quite abstractly, so I can see the utility of almost anything.

That is very, very, very Bird. I’m starting to see the problem though. “Knowledge for knowledge’s sake” is an older phrase that owes more to the parent system than I would like, but it does essentially mean “no knowledge is wasted, the most useful way to solve problems is to preemptively hoard knowledge.” 

What I am really also passionate about is presenting things in the right way. I love writing, and I love public speaking, because I get to put myself in the other person’s shoes, imagine how they will “receive” what I’m saying and then tailor my presentation or short story or whatever to lead them to the conclusion that I want them to reach. But I dislike manipulating people with this: the conclusions that I want them to reach are the ones that I personally consider accurate, not the ones that benefit me.

First thing, you sound like an absolutely incredible person, and by pretty much any metric you want to use, a *good* person. (And no, that’s not because the way you’ve written this is manipulating me. This is my little game, I’m good at it.) 

What I can tell you that tailoring a presentation to an audience - that’s just a Rapid-Fire Bird who knows their stuff doing trick-shots, and I bet it’s beautiful to see. You are delivering information in a way that the audience can properly take in, because you know both your audience and your information well enough to do that, and that is incredible. 

My knee-jerk reaction is always to improvise, but I feel like this makes me come off as a “fake” person if I change my mind on what I said later (I change my mind A LOT), so I try not to say what sounds good in the moment because it will bite me in the ass later and lead to a reputation of a flaky, fake person, I guess?

Not 100% sure what you mean here. Changing your mind… is just a personality trait, it doesn’t really have to do with why you do things or how you do them. I think you would call tailoring your presentations improvisation, and I really wouldn’t. It’s not improvisation, it’s just looks like improvisation because you’ve come up with a hundred different ways to say this thing, and then on the day you can pick the one that works the best. If you had to do the same thing, but not in your preferred subject matter/environment, it would be basically impossible.

But I also really pride myself on my logical and thorough assessments of situations, and I tend to like thinking things through when I get the chance for it, often postponing decisions until I’ve thought about all the eventual longterm consequences of all the courses of action I might take. 

Bird. 

What trips me up is my trauma-induced fixation with being “honest” and avoiding “lies”, which are more about their eventual inefficacy and worthlessness and less about their moral rightness or wrongness (and also because manipulative=bad, as my Mum spent all of my life saying). My line of thinking is, “Things built on lies or self-delusion always crash down and burn, and it is right that they do so that more stable and honest things can take place”

What are you building on lies? If anyone’s work has a solid foundation, it’s yours. And as we’ve previously discussed, even IF you were doing your mom’s brash Lion secondary thing, wouldn’t that be in a lie in itself, because it’s not your natural presentation, it’s something you need to force yourself to do? 

but I also kind of use it to do shady shit - like I don’t feel morally wrong in hitting up a man in a relationship, because if he really cares about his woman the only person who’ll get burned is me and if he doesn’t I saved her the trouble of wasting more of her time on him?

This is actually a really interesting aside, because it’s you telling me how you handle a moral issue (that makes it a Primary thing.) 

Is it wrong to hit on a married man? Your answer is No: either you get turned down because he’s staying faithful, and that’s your own personal risk, or he cheats, in which case he’s kind of … dehumanizing himself? And therefore you are doing his partner a favor because she can now get rid of this unhealthy member of her community. There’s a logic there, and it’s a kind of ruthless Badger primary logic. 

So not sure if Snake or Badger secondary?

Bird. 

P.S. After some self-reflection, I realized that I’m probably not a Bird secondary

I’m listening. 

because I really hate following plans and situations where I have to rely on concrete skills and not abstract problem solving terrify me. OTOH I am very proud of my general ability to assess a situation and act appropriately.

Not sure how you’re distinguishing between “concrete skills” and “abstract problem solving.” From what you’ve been telling me, it sounds like you need the concrete skills before you can do the abstract problem solving, as in they work together. 

I’m also known as the person who changes PowerPoint slides in the middle of a conference based on whoever’s speaking before her and adapting her speech accordingly, which freaks the shit out of my coworkers, so I guess any “planning” type is probably out for old me 

That’s the most Rapid Fire Bird thing I ever heard. You made a plan. The PowerPoint and the speech exist. You’re just adapting them on the fly, based on previously-existing knowledge. I’m starting to think that you’re one of those Bird secondaries who is SUCH a loud Bird secondary, that it can be hard to get your head the idea that your skills are skills, and not sort of neutral abilities that everyone has. 

my latent distaste towards being a Snake secondary is my burny oppressive bullshit against anything that’s not “stalwart honesty and consistency” that I’ve been imposing on myself for years.

which I really wish you didn’t feel like you had to. 

Because I do love winging it and just saying whatever’s the most situationally appropriate thing regardless of how much it reflects me and I’ve just been treating any kind of play acting like a recovering alcoholic treats drink so I no longer even remember how it feels anymore lol.

I hope you find a way to play with your Actor Bird, at some point. One more little thing before I sign off though - thinking of actions as “situationally appropriate” is a very Actor Bird secondary thing to do. Snakes don’t go that big. Snakes think - what response do I want from this person, in this moment, and how do I get it? They also constantly reset. Snake secondaries have this “seducer” reputation because they generally are better one-on-one, or in small groups. Even Snake secondary actors will talk about the way they perceive the whole audience as one “person” … it’s all very interesting, but a very different way of approaching the world than the way you do.

[painted-crow]

hi! I hope you're well. I've been thinking about my primaries and secondaries a lot lately. I'm always interested in people and I'm very good with understanding them too: it drives most of what I do, from my job to my choice of education to what I do for fun. ethics in my mind are also a bit contextual because of this: I can't really evaluate an act without knowing more about the person and situation//it's never black and white for me. I'm not an idealist, I think? (1)

I'm already giggling at this. You are such a loud Bird. "Evaluate an act" is an incredibly Bird lens. I think you might be associating Idealists with rigidity, or with certainty. Healthy Birdpris actually make a lot of space for uncertainty and for being able to say they don't have a good conclusion for whether something specific is Right yet.

And Birdpri systems are complex and built gradually over one's life precisely because there's so much nuance to be had in different situations. Not everything is going to run up against the core axioms of your system (things like "human life is inherently valuable" and "unnecessary suffering is bad").

Idealists can value people too. Birds tend to really value understanding others, it's a highly prioritized form of empathy for us, but not everyone works that way. Someone else might say, "I don't understand but I feel for you," or "I don't understand but I want to help, so you tell me what you need." Other primaries value understanding too, but for a Bird it's the first thing we go for--we feel pretty lost if we don't have some model of what's going on.

secondary-wise, much of the understanding of people thing happens sort of subconsciously--I figure out what's happening w people or how they're thinking or what they really want right 99% of the time, and it's always without really thinking about it. when it comes to other things, though, I usually work like this: I plan a thing/reach a solution for a problem, check w one person I trust about whether it works, then I execute. (2)

You've basically written me a flowchart. You lean heavily on plans and processes. Birdsec.

Having a skill down to the point where it works without you thinking about it doesn't make it not a skill; this is a Rapid-Fire Bird thing, not an Improvisational thing.

Checking your work with someone trusted doesn't make you a Badger; in this case it makes you a very meticulous Bird who's using your resources effectively.

I'm guessing at badger primary (I think just ensuring *everyone* is understood well matters the most to me? so it feels like a better guess than the rest rn), but very uncertain about secondary. feels a little gryffy sometimes but not really? I am anti-charging or plowing ahead--plans keep me sane and calm. I also read through multiple posts about shc cross-verifying traits and analyses and had to feel like I was getting nowhere before I sent this, if that says anything? thank you for this! (3)

Again, the "everyone needs to be understood" thing is a Birdpri trait. Why does everyone need to be understood? So that you and everyone else can factor the full context into your personal decision-making systems, of course! If you care about someone, you have a mental model of their needs and priorities and favorite ice cream flavors, right?

Badger language tends to be more like, "everyone needs to be cared for, their voice heard, not forgotten about--they deserve to get the help they need because they're people." But understanding is so important to Birds because a lot of our identity is often wrapped up in our systems, which we see as a thing that can be understood--and not everyone has this intricately defined worldview that they think about a lot and can explain to other people.

Plans keep you sane and calm and you've been problem-solving your Sorting by doing tons of research and cross-referencing everyone's different writing to come up with a mental model of the system to work with. Also, for all the reading you've been doing from probably a variety of different posters, I was the one you chose to write to--probably because my extremely double Bird writing voice sounds comfortingly familiar.

Welcome to the birdhouse, nonny.

[ros-aura]

Taylor Swift

Bird/Lion Primary, Bird/Snake Secondary

Would've Could've Should've is a song about a crisis of faith originating from a person. I personally feel that a Snake Primary (eg. me) would write the lyrics a little differently. A Snake Primary sees the value in their values changing due to their people/persons, and in my personal opinion I think we're much more likely to be happier about our changed beliefs because to us, we changed for the better even if by a little. We see beliefs as changeable but the status of our persons in our minds not changeable. We are more loyal to ourselves than we are to systems or religion, unless we have very strong beliefs that we prioritise over ourselves (happened once to me, but the model ended up crashing and burning).

You can say Taylor is a Snake Primary with burned Idealist Primary model house, but I think her words and actions prove otherwise. Olivia Rodrigo once was a fan of Taylor. She is very loyal and admired her. Taylor, seeing that deja vu could have copied Cruel Summer, was willing to throw away the connection she had with her and fought for rights on that song. Now, I don't know the logic behind Taylor, but I know Snake or Badger Primaries would probably take a different approach towards someone within their circle.

Unless Olivia isn't in her circle, then my argument is void.

However, you can tell Taylor valued Olivia in some way, when Taylor re-uploaded Olivia's cover on her Instagram story. If she valued her as a person and not an ideal, why would she do that to a person? It seems to me that once someone violates a value, Taylor removes them from her list, which seems less Snakey/Badgery than Lion/Bird.

Whether or not her beliefs lie within herself or external beliefs is less obvious. I was heavily considering Lion Primary for Taylor because she seems to be internally driven in what we see in her choices she makes. However, how she gets to her choices isn't made too publicly, and I wouldn't completely disagree with the possibility that she could be a Bird Primary as of now, with Mastermind in her latest album but it could be her Bird Secondary being loud as it is. She seems to be someone who comes to decisions after quite a bit of logical thinking and thought so I think she may be a Bird over Lion now. Anyone who has thoughts on Taylor's Primary is welcome to join in.

[mooglesorts]

went out for a long walk earlier, had a lot of Snake Secondary Thoughts i was excited to post/reply when i got home. accidentally took a wrong turn on the way back and ended up taking a VERY LONG walk, ran out of energy to actually write down the things for the moment fshdfklhsdfsdf

[sevilemar]

What would you say are some tell-tales signs of someone being a Snake Secondary even when the person is unaware of it ? I’m a Lion Primary but my Secondary is a mystery. I don’t know whenever it’s burnt, buried under model(s) and / or performance(s), or if I’m just unable to have a clear picture of myself, probably a mix of all this, but I know it’s not Badger Secondary.

What I'm about to list is neither conclusive nor exhaustive, and you still can be a snake even if nothing on this is you. I tried to give non-clicheed answers, everyday stuff instead of stereotypical things, because hopefully that's easier to identify with.

Here are a few things I have in common with other snake secondaries in the community.

- making weird connections nobody else sees, and having them work only in that particular situation

- asking 'Does it work?' more than 'Is this the (right) way to do this?' [birds also do this]

- not studying or prepping for an exam/a presentation/etc. much, and still coming out alright somehow

- enjoyed making up stories as a kid, about cool stuff you did, or cool friends you have, or cool people you met, etc.

- being good at individual conversations, but bad at networking

- getting frustrated if people don't want to try new things, especially if their old approach is obviously not working or you have just shown them a better way

- figuring stuff out while writing about it -> discovery writing [lions also do this]

- enjoying/don't minding weird solutions that work, being proud of coming up with these clever ideas on the fly

- getting opportunities you have not asked for, and for no apparent reason

- feeling like an asshole if you're too exhausted to bother with people-pleasing any longer

- getting annoyed and contrary with any advice that includes 'plan' or 'prep', because you know from experience that it will not work for you [lions might also get this]

And here are a few things I do that I think is also snake secondary:

- getting along well with very different people I don't necessarily like or agree with in a professional context (different temperaments, political opinions, upbringings, etc.)

- hopping from one personal project to the next without feeling guilty about not finishing any; it will get done, it's just not its time yet.

- getting antsy if things get too set in their ways, too predictable, too boring

- loving snake secondary characters

- wanting to have at least three different kinds of clothing styles in my wardrobe, because it's fun to look like you're someone else on any given day

- being constantly surprised when people aren't professional enough to leave their personal grievances behind while trying to work together

- not being surprised when you get to know coworkers in a private context, and they turn out to be very different from their work-selves

- making up words in the moment that don't really exist, but hopefully people understand in the situation [though I think that's also the German in me]

Snakes of the community, what did I miss?

[repetitionsings]

I know you have stuff for burned Lion to help unburn about what do I think could help the other primaries unburn? Like would a snake unburn just by going out a making friends? But like talking to people can be scary and it takes time to make friends... And I suppose Badgers could maybe join new communities I suppose. I have no idea what Bird would do other then make/fix their system but I have no clue how one would go about doing that.

Confused? Pretty sure this was sent to a different blog? @wisteria-lodge had a lot of asks to answer and asked for some help from the SHC community, so I’ll be answering a few they sent my way!

Not to get too serious here, but I think it's important to note this anyway: The first steps to unburning are the same for everyone, and it's getting yourself in a position where you can unburn, and working on what caused that damage. Something hurt you in a very important place. You need to get away from the thing that hurt you, and it's entirely possible there's going to be something you need to deal with about it before you can fully fix it. You might be able to get a little better, even if that's not immediately possible, but at its core, unburning is more about being able to deal with what caused you to burn than it is anything else.

But, if that's a road you can get on, there's likely to be things you can do along the way. I can’t tell you how to let people in, join new communities, or build a system, not the least because that’s gonna depend on your person who, what, and how too much for me to say generally. Also, I don’t see that as the process so much as both the consequence -- as you unburn, you’ll probably be able to figure out how to connect to these things in a way you had trouble doing when burnt -- and the eventual endgame. There are baby steps to go through first.

What I can offer is some generalities, and make some educated guesses at how they’ll apply to Snake and Bird Primaries, and some slightly more informed guesses from my position as a Burned Badger, but if anyone else -- any actual Snakes and Birds in particular -- have some insight on things that helped them or thoughts on what they think might do so, I'd love to hear it. Under the bump, because this post grew kinda long:

➢ Engage with fiction and media that feeds your primary.

Snakes can try attaching to characters; Birds can think about the rules underpinning a different life or universe; Badgers can borrow that found family feel from media to feed that need. Look up characters that share your primary, and think about how their stories make you feel. Make a playlist and stick songs that make your primary hum on it. Start keeping a document full of quotes or a bookmark folder full of images that hit your brain in that way.

You don’t need to be able to explain why you feel that way, especially not immediately. Get as tenuous and weird with those connections as you want! But spend some time listening for what your primary clicks with. From there you might want to dissect the why, or you might just want to wallow in it -- that’s probably a secondary thing, really -- but either way, the stockpile can be useful.

➢ Find low-impact things that feed your primary.

Which may not be the best phrasing, so let me give you an example: as a Badger who’s burned and a little hesitant about actively engaging in community, one of the things that really soothes that need for connection for me is livestreams. I don’t even read along the chats on most of them, but having that sense that other people are participating in the same thing I am gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me feel like a part of something. Timed challenges can do it too -- I like to participate in things like NaNoWriMo and NaPoWriMo, because there’s a sense that everyone’s in it together. These don’t require me to directly tackle the burn -- I’m not fully engaging, and nobody ever has to know I’m there, but it still feeds that part of me and keeps me attached to it.

I gotta admit for this one I don’t know necessarily what this might look like for Birds and Snakes -- I don’t even know if the things that work for me here would work for other Badgers! But if you can find something that stirs those feelings, while being non-important enough that you still can engage, hold on to it, make a note of it, and try to set aside time for it as best you can.

➢ Talk about important things with people who share your primary.

This might work better for some than others, but for me, being part of the SHC community has been a big help in helping me feel like my Badger could someday get healthier. Seeing other Badgers say things and going “oh! yeah! I get that!” feels really good. Now, maybe this is a Badger-community-seeking thing, so if any Birds/Snakes feel differently and want to chime in, go for it -- or it might look differently there! for Birds it might involve healthy debate, for Snakes listening to other Snakes gush about their loved ones -- but it may be worth giving a try.

And narrowing down the broad topic of healing specifically aimed at your primary, these are easier said than done, but the applicable ones probably need doing nonetheless: ➣ Accept that unburnt you may interact with your primary differently than memories you might have of pre-burnt you. ➣ Forgive yourself and don’t beat yourself up for being burned. ➣ When you do feel your primary stirring, learn not to doubt and shout it back down.

But as I said, these are just my thoughts as a Badger who’s still working on trying to unburn, so -- anyone else out there have suggestions or things that worked for them?

[funkymbtifiction]

Harry Potter and Sorting hat houses?

Speaking of Hogwarts house and characters. What do you think is the primary and secondary of characters from Harry Potter? Like: Bellatrix, Percy, Voldemort, Harry, Dumbledore and Grindelwald?

I have a feeling that most characters associated with Slytherin are actually Lion primary. Bellatrix being that fanatical pure-blood supremacist who can sacrifice her family for the cause. Voldemort might be Lion Primary? Given how all he cares about is his cause - immortality, pure-blood supremacy and world dominance. Even Draco feels Badger-ish. Grindelwald and Dumbledore also both feel like Lion-Snake. 

And I think Harry is actually Bird-Lion and not Lion primary. I don't know, he doesn't have that Dionysian reasoning like a more obvious Lion like Hermione (her cause and moral conscience comes from direct experience and gut feeling, not mental rumination). And as a Lion primary myself, the way he thinks, always mentioning the teachings from his mentors (Dumbledore, Sirius, Arthur and Lupin) is definitely not Lion Primary thing. And how he must know the truth to move on with life (that Dumbledore dilemma, seeing his father in Snape's memory).

A Lion would be more surefooted in their belief, sometimes even stubborn. In his shoes, I'd still go on, because the cause is just, even if Dumbledore was wrong, or James used to be an absolute a-hole, that doesn't matter. What matters is what they and we do now. I don't need to know the truth to function. It's a luxury, not necessity. And I think Percy is a Lion-Bird, like Hermione, Lions are in fact very susceptible to propaganda, since we rely too much on gut feelings. Though it's a hit or miss. 

That's my opinion. But what do you think?

I haven't given it a lot of thought, to be honest. I know SHC had a post about the HP characters that addressed this specifically and how they sorted some characters into different Houses than Rowling does -- and now I can't find it, since their accidental blog delete-age got rid of most of their archived arguments. :/

I would say offhand you are right, Harry isn't a Gryffindor Primary. If you look at Hermione as a really good example of one -- he is never that black and white. He's a bit horrified at some of the things she does (like hexing traitors to have their face break out). But I don't know that Ravenclaw Primary fits -- I'd assume Hufflepuff or Slytherin, since he's clearly people-and-morals driven. Harry isn't detached the way Ravenclaws are -- it's all about doing the right thing and being the Chosen One. It's more people / feelings than rationalization or living up to a constructed code.

Ron is a Slytherin-Gryffindor. He abandons Hermione and Harry to go be with his family, and then feels eaten up with guilt about it afterward. He's extremely loyal, but only to his friends. He thinks Percy is a "git" for betraying his family / Dumbledore. (Percy actually standing by his Cause, even if it's wrong and stupid, shows an actual Gryffindor fierce "I will do this with or without you" that Ron lacks.)

Hermione is a Gryffindor-Ravenclaw, yes. Ginny I would say is straight up double Gryffindor.

Dumbledore... ah, yes. I have had many conversations about Dumbledore with my friends. He does seem Slytherin-ish as a Secondary, but I would argue that Voldemort is a Ravenclaw Secondary and a Slytherin Primary. He really only cares about himself, and uses a "cause" (pure blood supremacy, despite being a "half-blood") to conceal his actual aim, which is his own survival. I think he's one of those Slytherins who only cares about "me." As for the Claw Secondary -- he is a meticulous planner in advance, who gets very angry whenever Harry and his friends ruin his plans. He carefully checks on all of his plans, and doesn't seem to adapt well -- more like a "I need a plan" Ravenclaw than a "I'll wing it" Slytherin Secondary.

Grindelwald... haven't seen a lot of him yet in Fantastic Beasts, but Gryffindor-Slytherin is probably accurate.

And for a record, as an LGBTQ person, I'm not fond of JK Rowling as a person. Her novels are fine for me, but her personality, nope.

That's a wise and mature attitude to hold. Separating the art from the artist allows you to keep what you love without approving of opinions you dislike.

[wyrdnis]

This is a question @wisteria-lodge got and passed on to @sevilemar, who shared it with me for a Lion sec perspective. You can find the Snakey point of view here on her blog.

So, my first thought while reading this was: What do you mean by impulsive? So I let myself impulsively be carried by this thought into writing a whole post about it. ;-)

In what way are Lions impulsive? When I look at my own experience, I can see that I have very strong emotional reactions which tend to push me to act quickly in some way. My secondary is burnt, so often I just don’t do it, I calm myself down and think. Often the effect is that I don’t act at all.

But sometimes - and this is the healthy part of my secondary, I think (assisted by my primary) - I just stop for a second to get a feel of what’s happening here right now. What is this emotion I’m feeling? What is the impulse connected to it? Is the impulse true to the emotion, is it going to feel right when I follow it? Is the impulse in synch with my values? Does it stem from some old wound, and if it does, will it be good for me and others if I let myself be led by this hurt?

What is the core of my impulse, and in which way can I act to be true to this core without being hurtful to either myself or others?

This process isn’t as complicated as it sounds. Sometimes it’s not even a conscious process, it’s more of a second of mindfulness, which is enough to tell me whether anything about my impulse feels suspicious or dangerous to me. If not, I let go and do the thing.

Other Lions (whose secondary isn’t burnt) probably have a very different experience of impulsiveness, but I think what we share is that our emotional reactions are quick and we have an urge to act on them. (Lions, if you experience this differently, let me know, I’m very curious!)

In addition to that, Lions like to be straightforward and direct in expressing our impulses. So if my initial impulse is to, for example, make a hurtful sarcastic remark or use the other person’s weakness against them because they pissed me of - I will not act on that impulse in this exact way. It’s not in line with the methods I want to use. Instead I will choose an action that allows me to directly let out the underlying emotion without the double edged sword of emotional manipulation. If someone pisses me off, I want to attack them directly, to their face, not put a dagger in their back. But that doesn’t mean that I never have impulses which contradict my usual methods; it means that I am able to decide HOW do be impulsive, even if I act very quickly.

So… it seems to me that “impulsive” can be a misleading description for lion-y behaviour. Other words might be more precise, such as: heartfelt, quick, direct, energetic, straightforward.

“Impulsive” is often a descriptor for immediate reactions without any kind of pause before it. I think that every secondary can act this way and might mess up doing it. A Badger might get drawn into bitching about someone behind their back out of an impulse of “I’m angry at this person”. A Bird might draw up an intellectual defense out of the impulse to protect themselves against a perceived attack. It’s a human reaction that has a lot more to with whether you’ve learned how to look at your emotions from a little distance, which allows you to draw on your primary’s values before you act impulsively. Or whether you can’t, because your automatic protective mechanisms get the best of you.

In that way, I’m sure that Snakes can be very impulsive. They are also quick and react in the situation rather than plan their behaviour beforehand. They can lash out with a snide remark, twist your words, attack you right at your weak point out of an impulse. Or they can be considerate, only use their sneak attack if they really need to and so on.

It entirely depends on their primary, on the values they want to act on - and on their ability and willingness to exert a certain amount of control over their instinctive reactions.

Caveat: You’re not a bad person if you don’t have a lot of control over your impulses! It’s hard, even harder if you’ve been in a lot of situations where you had to protect yourself. It's a skill that can absolutely be learned, and you don’t have to do it all by yourself. <3

Also, being impulsive can be pure joy, and while I'm talking about "control" for lack of a better word, I really don't mean putting your impulses on a leash. Perhaps self awareness and self leadership would be more fitting words for what I mean. Because being able to let go is part of this same skill (I haven't mastered that part yet).

[dragonsaredorks]

Big Hero 6 Sorting

Hello!! I recently re-watched Big Hero 6 so I thought I would sort some of the characters!

Tadashi Hamada - Badger Bird

Tadashi is very clearly a Loyalist. He doesn't have any ideals. His main Cause is helping people who are hurt (need-basing). The dude creates a nurse-robot to help people. How much more Badger (+ bird sec) can you get? Tadashi also has a community he's a part of: his friend group at college.

Bird secondary, his whole thing is building things and he builds the Ultimate Tool by creating Baymax. The scene where he runs straight into the burning building seems like Lion sec, but the context makes me think that's just his Badger primary. "There is a person in need who needs help, it's my job to help them." (Honestly, self-sacrificing reads as even more Badger primary to me.) He could be a Lion with a Bird model with more context. (The trying again and again + just running into danger still kind of says Lion to me.) For example, if he learned the building things from someone. But the movie doesn't go too much into that, so I'm going to assume building and using tools is natural to him. Bird secondary.

Baymax - Badger, Bird

Baymax is basically a condensed version of Tadashi. (Which makes sense considering Tadashi built him to achieve his life-goal lmao). He's a universal Badger so he cares about All People and need-bases.

Bird secondary. He analyzes people by scanning for injuries and then uses whatever the best tool is to treat them. He has tons of medical knowledge collected in his hard drive.

Hiro Hamada - Snake, Bird (Lion primary model)

Hiro is a Snake primary through and through. He starts out looking like a Glory Hound Lion, but when in crisis he appears much more Snake to me. Hiro's grief makes him rely on his Lion model, he shoves those feelings about Tadashi's death down deep and finds a Cause. Protecting the city and stopping the masked-villian who stole his microbots. But his breaking point, when he wants to literally murder Calaghan? What does it take for him to stop? To change his mind? Baymax showing him those clips of Tadashi. Showing him that that's not what his brother wanted. (It wasn't about his actions being wrong in the way it would have been for a Lion.) That's a parallel between Hiro and Callaghan. Both are seeking revenge for the deaths of their loved ones, the difference is that Hiro has Baymax to remind him of Todashi's Cause. Also how Hiro tries to change Callaghan's mind is so Snake. "Is this what Abigail would have wanted?" Not "this is wrong," like a Lion or "you'll hurt people," like a Badger. At the end I think he still has that Lion model, "I'm going to help a lot of people (Lion Cause) like my brother wanted (Snake primary)."

This movie is a Bird secondary jackpot lol. (What else can you expect from a movie about a bunch of tech-nerds (affectionate)). Hiro is yet another Bird secondary. He builds things and then uses them to accomplish his goals. The microbots, Baymax's super suit, Hiro even turns his friends into tools by making them super heros.

Professor Callaghan - Snake Bird

As Fred says, "this is a revenge story." Callaghan's motiv for doing things is to get revenge for the death of his daughter, Abigail. He probably had a Bird primary model he lived in when creating his theories, but he drops that once his daughter "dies."

Bird secondary, he's yet another inventor. He steals Hiro's microbots to use as tools to build a portal. The man also creates a plan (bird) to get revenge.

Hiro and Callaghan sharing a sorting is why they communicate so well. Callaghan is crucial in convincing Hiro to join the Science University. He knows exactly how to catch his interest. Likewise, Hiro is great at understanding Callaghan. He almost manages to convince him to stop his revenge-mission until Alistair Krei speaks up and sparks Callaghan's anger again.

Best guesses on the rest of the squad: (heavily based off Vibes)

Go-go - Double Lion

Honey Lemon - Double Bird

Fred - Lion Snake

Wasabi - no idea what primary (genuinely no clue lol), Bird sec (such a loud bird sec)

[herlaqueen]

Let’s see if I can blend two of the main things my brainspace is occupied with lately: sortings with the Sorting Hat Chats model, and Tanz der Vampire.

For those unfamiliar, Sorting Hat Chats is a  deeper, more nuanced sorting system using Harry Potter’s one as a basis. Over time it evolved into a handy basic tool for fictional characters’ analysis, since it makes you reason about WHY a character does something (the primary house), and HOW do they do it (the secondary house).

If you’re interested or have trouble understanding the terms I’ll use, here you can find the basics on SHC’s tumblr, and here is a slightly different explanation by wisteria-lodge (I personally find this one easier to understand, but that’s a matter of personal taste).

Now, let’s get to the sorting!

Please note that, since this is a live musical, the same character can change a bit depending on the actor, the direction, even from one performance to the other.

This is meant to be as much as possible a generic analysis, if your favorite performer gives them a different twist that’s cool and valid and the same is true if you interpret the characters and their actions differently than I do! Either way, I’d love to hear your thoughts!

This turned out way longer than I thought, so l have to split it across multiple posts. You can find the second one, sorting Sarah, her parents, and Magda, here, and the third and final one featuring Herbert and Graf von Krolock is here.

Here are our fearless vampire killers, Professor Abronsious and Alfred!

Professor Abronsius

At first sight he might look like a very stereotypical Bird: interested in creating a framework for how the world works, active pursuer of knowledge... But I think that’s just a very strong and unhealthy model. [Note: a model is when you more or less consciously imitate traits of another house. It can be something healthy and helpful, but that’s not what I’m seeing here]

I think the Professor is a slightly burnt Badger. His main motivation is being esteemed and respected by those he deems his peers, but I don’t get the feel of someone seeking glory form themselves, rather someone that just wants to feel part of a community but currently isn’t getting that, feeling excluded and lonely instead.

He’s also very good at the de-humanizing thing that some Badgers do (he clearly doesn’t see vampires as people, and I’d argue sometimes he has some of this with regular humans too), and that’s not surprising since I get some very authoritarian Badger vibes from him.

On top of that I think he has the aforementioned unhealthy Bird model, which shows itself in his belief that logic is to be prioritized above all else and it’s the key to understanding everything.

He probably got it from his colleagues/academic community, but it’s not a very well-developed one and it results in an immature Bird that, paired with his Badger, ends up believing he just knows how things are and makes him blind to the truth (or to what is really important) several times over the course of the musical.

His secondary, now that’s a proper Bird: he’s not a vampire hunter, he’s a researcher, but since he’s going to research vampires of course he has garlic and stakes and so on and he studied the exact best way to pierce a heart, being prepared is just sensible! Also the way he sings about knowledge and books is extremely secondary Bird: you can be prepared to face everything in life, you just need to have read the right book!

He does the thing where he has a very specific subset of tools and knowledge but is quite lost outside of his area of expertise, and we see this go hilariously wrong in the second part of the musical when he’s out of his comfort zone and has to improvise/act in a more physical way. I also think that Alfred has been brought along specifically because the Professor believes he can help him when it comes to physical stuff, an area in which he’s clearly lacking. The Professor clearly sees some real potential in Alfred, but he also sees nothing wrong in valuing him as one of the tools at his disposal.

Alfred

Albert is a poor baby Lion who never found his calling, or had it burnt out of him. Either way, it’s clear from early on that the boy is all feelings, he just has to find the way and strength to trust them and express them (in the “Draussen ist Freiheit” reprise, as he and Sarah are singing about what they want to do in the future one of his lines is literally “Showing what I feel”).

I think at the beginning he, too has a Bird model (unsurprisingly since he is a student working with a double Bird-ish professor), but I think in this case it does serve him well: he clearly has an inquisitive mind and is willing to change his opinion, but rather than changing his mind because of facts he does it because the way he feels towards something or someone changes.

It is really heartwarming to see him slowly gain confidence and learn to listen to his emotions, even when they’re egregiously wrong and they blind him to the logical, rational thing to do.

One of the clearest examples is in the crypt scene: the easiest way to save Sarah would be staking Krolock and Herbert while they’re asleep, but no matter how much he tries, no matter how much he thinks about Sarah, he can’t do it because to him it would not be right to do so. And what I find most interesting is that he doesn’t try to explain why he can’t do it, because any reasoning he could put behind it is less important than the fact that it just isn’t right.

I also really like how his unburning leaves him with an immature primary: he clearly has issues taking other people’s feelings into account and he’s still relying a bit on others to understand what is right like, for example, centering his morality around how he imagines the fictional version he built in his mind of the girl he fell in love would want him to behave. I like it because he’s young and naive and a bit sheltered and so he doesn’t go from zero to perfect paragon but he stumbles and is messy.

A side note: notice how his big unburning moment/song (Für Sarah) can only happen because the conversation with Krolock at the end of “Vor dem Schloss” and the subsequent dream force him to become aware of his own feelings and fears. Even if he doesn’t like them, once he’s aware that they exist he can’t just ignore them or shove them back, and this forces him to recognize and face them. 

Alfred is also a Lion secondary. While we see a more “academic” side (taking note of Herbert lacking a reflection, being sensible in order to assist the professor and trying to keep him alive), when he’s cornered at the end of the musical he literally takes a piece of furniture and charges the centuries old vampire lord.

A less blatant example is when, wanting to see Sarah again, he doesn’t try to gain her father’s favor or find a different way to get to her room, but he just goes under her window and calls her name which is the direct, straightforward thing to do (even if he risks being heard by Chagall).

I think that a lot of his indecisiveness in the beginning of the musical is due to his burnt primary: without a moral compass, he does not know in which direction to move. So he just follows the lead of someone else, delegating to them the job of deciding what’s the right thing for him to do.

TL;DR:

Professor Abronsious is an Authoritarian Badger with an immature Bird model/Bird

Alfred is a Lion/Lion who unburns over the course of the musical

[reds-burrow]

Wait so Lions are Neutral?

I’ve actually had this thought pretty much since I started this blog, although my thinking on it has changed in some ways. Essentially, the base of a Secondary is a Single-Player skill and a Neutral state. A Neutral state is our sense of self, unedited, without the influence of others. If you’ve interacted with young children, you probably know how blunt and unfiltered they can be. But are all those kids Lion Secondaries? Probably not. As they grow, many (though not necessarily all) of them will develop a Multiplayer skill, usually based on their Single-Player skill, that they may use instead of their Neutral in social situations. Some use their Multiplayer all the time, some only when they feel it’s needed, and some don’t feel comfortable using Multiplayer skills with any regularity, if at all. Lions fall into that last category. The brash authenticity that we associate with Lions, we’d also expect from the other Neutrals. Lions usually don’t build a Multiplayer skill more complicated than the basics because being their authentic self is much more comfortable for them. [EDIT: While I still maintain everything else in this post, Wisteria has reshaped my thinking on the Lion multiplayer by accurately pinpointing these “basics” that I referred to as a “Beacon Lion.”]

A few other thoughts about Neutrals since we’re here:

- Neutral states still display the qualities of their Secondary, so they don’t all look the same. For example, Lions and Neutral Snakes have been described as unstoppable forces and immovable objects respectively because they are Straightforward and Circumventing respectively. Unlike Improvising Secondaries, Built Secondaries will still be uncompromising on what they have built (their Collections for Birds and their Methods for Badgers). This is particularly noticeable in social situations for Birds who won’t budge on the facts they know to be true.

- People’s Primaries also tend to shine through when they’re in their Neutral because they tend to speak out more directly, unafraid to step on people’s toes, about their Primary values. Many people will drop their Multiplayer when something rubs their Primary the wrong way.

- Some people develop their Multiplayer so well that it even influences their sense of who they are. Snakes and Badgers are the most likely for this to happen to because, as Fluid Secondaries, they are able to shift and change enough to live in their Multiplayer 24/7. If these Fluid Multiplayers Explode, a person can lose track of their sense of self.

- Snake Secondaries were probably the first ones identified as having a Neutral because they have the most noticeable difference between their Neutral and Multiplayer. They can live in their mask (unlike Actor Birds who often revert back to their Neutral between roles) and aren’t always authentic (unlike Courtier Badgers who draw on their Neutral while mirroring).

- The official description of a Badger Secondary briefly mentions what a Neutral/Bookkeeper Badger looks like socially. “A [Badger] who is invested in their work, rather than people, is as likely as a [Lion] to step on toes.”

[wisteria-lodge]

badger secondary + burnt lion secondary (fun bird model) (healthy bookeeper badger model) (unhealthy courtier badger model)

Hey, there! So, I've known my primary for a while now (Badger Primary) but I've been a little bit all over the place with my secondary. Was hopin' for a little help.

The one I'm positive I'm not is a Lion Secondary. I have a Double Lion best friend, and I could NEVER be as blunt as she is, and I'd never tell her this, but I honestly wouldn't want to. Lol! Being honest is an incredibly important thing to be, but there's a difference, at least in my mind, between honesty and saying the first thing that comes to your mind without letting it go through at least a little editing first.

Gotta keep the intended audience in mind.

Yeah, not sounding like a Lion secondary. And I'm kind of thinking Deliberate secondary for you (Bird or Snake.) What you're doing doesn't actually seem *automatic.*

For Bird, there's a possibility. I'm seen as very anxious, and I find new situations pretty stressful.

I mean, anyone can be anxious... and especially if it's a VERY new situation - that can be a lot for anybody.

I love collecting knowledge, and I always have an assortment of fun facts at hand that I've tirelessly collected over the years. It's a fun thing for me, and I enjoy doing it. I was also seen as very "intellectual" in school (which I know is not a requirement for being a Bird or a clear indication of being one, but I figured I'd mention it.) Loved school and loved learning, and I still love learning in my adulthood.

The issue is that, when the chips are down, and it's actually time to solve a problem, I tend to just kinda freeze mentally. The way Bird Secondaries are described, it's like, when a problem happens, they pull on a tool they've created for the situation, and then BOOM, they're using it to handle it.

Birds are good at retrofitting old tools to new situations, it's true. But I don't think I talk enough about what happens when a Bird just... comes up with nothing. And I think the answer is they start looking like a Lion secondary, kind of flailing around.

(I also think that *young* Bird secondaries have a way of looking kind of like Lions, because they haven't had an opportunity to build their tools yet.)

When bad things happen, my mind goes blank. I just kinda start doing stuff, anything. Sure, I might remember something important, like some specific training, but for the most part, my brain goes blank and I go into autopilot.

I don't know *how* bad we're talking here. But if you're in full on SURVIVAL mode, this is where the fight/flight/freeze/fawn kicks in. The reason training gets drilled in like that is so it *stays* when your brain isn't working. I've always found that the really intense stuff feels very quiet, and very dreamlike in the moment, and the emotions don't kick in until later. But the point is... that's not SHC stuff.

So far, you read as someone with a fun Bird model that you love, but your problem-solving is probably coming from somewhere else. (Or possibly it's Burnt...)

For Badger Secondary, I think that's the secondary I wish I could be, but I don't think I am. I have ADHD, so being meticulous and thoughtful are just... absolutely exhausting to me.

It might look a little different, but you can 100% be a Badger secondary with ADHD.

I was raised in a family that really pushed always being a Badger Secondary, forget about yourself, help others, others' problems are more pressing than your own.

Oooh that's not a Badger secondary family. What you're describing here is an Exploded Badger primary culture. And if you're a Badger primary yourself... I bet that got confusing.

(100% your family might have ALSO have required Badger secondaries from everyone, I would think that's likely. So I'll keep that in mind.)

Part of me didn't believe it, but much of me still does. I like to help, I want to help, but I'm also Badger Primary, which can feed that want. Secondary is about what you naturally do to serve what you want, and I'm not sure if Badger Secondary is right. But, I do try to be there for people. My natural instinct when someone is in danger is to protect and comfort them, I'm very focused on the mental/emotional state of the victim more than anything else.

Gee, you write like you're a rescue worker or a firefighter. (And a Badger primary.)

When in any kind of conflict at work, I want to soothe them, to calm them down, and I try to become what I think they might want me to be to help them calm down, but it doesn't always work. Part of me also always wants to tell those people fuck it, you caused your own problem, you're on your fucking own. Lol. And it would feel good to tell them that. I wish more tough love was accepted in the world, generally. I would feel like I could breathe more.

Okay, there's a lot going on here. You "become what I think they might want me to be" which is - Deliberate. And more Snake than Bird, because of the whole one-face-per-person thing. (It not working all the time is neither here nor there, you're human, you'll make the wrong call sometimes.)

But... you like the idea of a more tough-love Lion secondary approach. "I would feel like I could breathe more." And there's something about the Badger secondary that you like... maybe it's that "No, you move" energy.

As for Snake Secondary... this one might be it. Only problem is... I kind of don't want it to be? I know there's a whole thing about not letting go stereotypes get in the way, but I want to be the person I pretend to be, I guess. I want to be a Badger Secondary, but I'm afraid I'm a Snake Secondary because, from experience, people do not like you when you behave the way you truly want to. They shun you.

"Behave the way you truly want to."

Okay, let's unpack that.

The face-changing guys (Snake and Bird) want to be behave that way. They are authentic, in that their face-changing is consensual. Same thing with a Courtier Badger, with the caveat that their face-changing isn't as much of a deliberate choice. But it's still something that they want to do.

They can all run into situation where their face-changing is forced on them (becomes non-consensual) and is therefore inauthentic. This is a separate issue from the Lion secondary "eh, I'm going to rub some people the wrong way just by existing, comes with the territory, whatever." And I don't know which one is you.

If I wanna speak more "bluntly," not like my friend, but just more plainly, feel more like ME and less like a persona, people find me too negative, too sarcastic, I speak for too long, or I'm somehow either too passionate or dispassionate and I'm never ENOUGH either way. The performance is tiring. I want to be free to be me, but the true me isn't particularly good at anything.

Oh you're Burnt. I'm so sorry.

Because what you are talking about here is neurodivergent masking. (Which is totally different from Snake masking, I'm sorry the words are the same, I know it's confusing.)

'Too negative' shows up when you don't know if a comment is appropriate to the conversation or not. 'Too sarcastic' happens when you make a joke that doesn't land. 'Speaking for too long' - hyperfixations. 'Too passionate' - probably hypersensitivity. 'Too dispassionate' - possibly a flat affect, or a tendency to shut down.

Now I do not diagnose people here. That is impossible and unethical. But I can say that it sounds like you're masking all the time and that is exhausting. Especially especially for a Badger primary who needs communities they feel safe in, basically to exist.

I promise, I promise, I promise that there are communities out there where you can take off the mask.

I try to be who people want me to be, I try to be the puzzle piece that fits best in the world's puzzle, and I fail at that. I'm never quite what they're looking for.

It sounds like you're desperately trying to model Courtier Badger secondary, and it's hurting you.

Too clumsy, too forgetful, too focused on unimportant things, and I ultimately can't keep up the facade, the cracks begin to show that I'm a fraud and this put-together, organized person is absolutely NOT who I am, and I am shunned.

So you've built yourself a Bookkeeper Badger model. In order to keep your life organized. Good. But then you're guilty and like, sort of imposter-syndrome about the fact that this isn't your entire personality, that this isn't *enough*

Then, I try to be myself. More funny, more sarcastic, slightly more blunt, just slightly, just enough to reveal the passionate and opinionated person I am underneath. I woukd never want to actually hurt anyone's feelings, but I have to air out the things I truly feel every once in a while. I have to be me.

Sorry to break it to you, but you're a lion secondary. And you're plenty likable.

But, at least in some circles, I scare people away. Like it's sudden whiplash in the differences between my two personalities. Those I meet while trying to be my put-together persona are usually really turned off by the more real, true me. They usually don't get me, think my interests are weird, or that I'm just too intense (hearing Angelica Schuyler describe herself in Hamilton the first time... I'd never felt more seen by a character in something EVER. Some men say that I'm intense or I'm insane. Lol!)

Angelica's a pretty loud Lion secondary.

Now, I know to some degree it's my own Lion primary talking, but I read this and think "that sounds like a them problem." I know that having a Badger primary is going to make thinking that way harder, and having an Exploded Badger family culture is going to make it even harder than that.

But, I don't know what to tell you. You sound fun to hang out with. And there's a reason Badger Lion is the Protagonist sorting, and the Starfleet Officer sorting. People *like* them.

Well, anyway, that was a long winded way to ask for some help. Lol! Were you able to pick up on any clues? Thanks so much if you even attempted to read this! Lol.

Always with the Burnt secondaries and the apologies....

[painted-crow]

hey so i'm looking to figure my sorting out. i'm p sure of my secondary but honestly i've gone in circles so many times that i'd believe anything lmao

so i guess to start like. i'm fairly sure i'm an idealist, but with a twist. i care about making the world a better place-- i'm kinda infamous among my friends for being a little TOO outspoken about my opinions. on a small scale, i have strong opinions about a lot of things, but on a larger scale... idk. i don't think any one person can know what an ideal world looks like cause there really is no such thing. there are literally countless variables when it comes to implementing even small systems, countless ways to fuck it up, so i don't think i'd be choosing some grand ideal over the people i love anytime soon.

that being said, i think my idealist streak gets directed into something else most of the time. i'm very focused on understanding myself to a fault. i want to know why i do the things i do, why i believe certain things over others. when it comes to my beliefs about the world, they're strong but take it or leave it, but when it comes to myself they are not a good idea to push. i've ended relationships over not feeling like myself with them or feeling like i'm losing myself or they're pushing me to be someone i'm not. i make strong instant decisions about what the "right" thing to do is when it comes to how it impacts my perception of myself, especially with intimate relationships (i'm a lot less impulsive with things like friends and things i'm less personally involved in). i NEED to know who i am, way more than i care about any one specific person or thing. obviously i love people very deeply and would do just about anything to have both, but if i don't know who i am, if i'm not true to myself, then i have nothing. losing people happens.

the issue is, because i'm prone to doing that and not thinking as much about how it'll impact people, i've been called selfish a lot over my lifetime. recently i've started thinking more about how my actions impact people and their feelings, and i'm feeling a lot more torn. i want to do what i want to do, what i feel is best, but i feel immature for doing it a lot. i've started worrying a lot about being a bad person and hurting people, and i've been thinking about how the "right" way to be is. i went through a phase where i was repressing myself to make the "moral" choice, but i just felt so flat. ultimately i realized that it doesn't really matter how good i am if i have to repress myself to get there, cause then all it is is performance. tldr is i feel super guilty for making "selfish" choices rn, especially as i've gotten more aware of other peoples' feelings.

what i think is probably going on is that i'm an idealist primary with a badger model, but i'm not sure between lion and bird, and i'm still open to badger. pretty sure i'm not a snake.

the section on my secondary's gonna be a lot shorter, sorry this got so long! so i'm p sure i'm a badger secondary. considered lion and snake secondary too. whatever i am, i have a p loud lion model over it. i've always had a gift for making people trust me, for acting. i kinda blend in and become what i need to to both help them and get them off my back so i can do what i need to do. i have a serious passion for helping people with tough love (i like to think of myself as a p good advice giver, since i can both tell people what they need to hear and really get in their shoes and be kind where other people might not). i think i judge myself the least when i can kinda toe that line between pushing boundaries and stepping back-- i track where peoples' boundaries are constantly so i can push them to the limit without stepping over them. i'm very fluid when it comes to presentation in reality, even though i think people actually think of me as kinda controversial. i tend to see people who are ACTUALLY overstepping boundaries as lowkey selfish at times, even though i also really respect them. i like to do things the "right" way as long as i give a shit about them. the catch is, i don't want to blend into the background, and i don't think i do. a partner of mine called me a fox cause he noticed the way i constantly toe that line where i can get people to notice me and still keep them off my back, still make them comfortable. i'm also NOT a planner. people constantly give me shit for only ever feeling things out in the moment, and honestly thinking about the future freaks me out. i don't want to plan how i do shit i'd rather just get in the zone and figure it out from there. tldr i'm pretty sure i'm a badger secondary? but i could be convinced of snake. definitely see elements of both but my gut's telling me badger so take that how you will

anyway! thank you so much for taking the time to answer this, i know it's a lot.

also sorry one thing i forgot to add about my secondary! i think my lion model got so loud because when i do the shifty presentation thing, i have a tendency to lose myself and start perceiving myself as whatever i'm presenting. it's made it really hard to figure out who i actually am and so i started just being as clear about it as possible.

for my primary, i really care a lot about being right. i try to take every side into consideration to make sure i get the best conclusion. i can be super stubborn when it comes to certain things, but i don't want to just... hold to perceptions that are wrong. that being said it's important to me to trust my gut and i take it as a big input. i'm very felt out for most things, don't really have a strong system of how to be. i really wanna be able to trust myself but i just don't. i have a big habit of relying on other people to tell me what to think, which is uh. yeah.

Primary

You're a Bird primary with a Lion model, and you're trying on some Badger ideals. That's one of the easier Sorts I've done, lol! Possibly because your primary and models actually House match mine :p

Your reasoning process screams Bird xD and so does your writing style and just the length of the ask. Birds love self-analysis, it's part of how we make sure our systems stay as close to true as we can make them.

You've got some Lion too, but it's a model. It sounds like your Lion and your Bird have come into conflict before, and like most Birds with Lion models, it bugs the snot out of you when your Lion's intuition (which is important data!) doesn't line up with what your Bird knows.

You've prioritized Bird's conclusions before, but (as with many Birds) you don't entirely trust your own system and you're wondering if your Lion might have been right and you should give its reasoning more weight.

Also, you're consciously deciding that maybe Badgers' way of doing things is more moral than yours, and you're pulling in some of those ideals. That doesn't make you a Badger primary. Birds are notorious for this kind of thing actually 😂

The line between whether some ideals you've pulled into your Bird system vs. what counts as a model is fuzzy. It's up to you really, how important those pieces of Badger are to you.

For me, I think the line might be--is it wired into your sense of self on its own, or does it get filtered through your Bird and Lion? It really sounds like your Lion is a strong part of your sense of self: if you ignore its advice, you feel not totally like yourself. You don't have to feel all your models equally strongly, but thinking of it that way might help.

(It's also hard because Birds often feel like they kind of are their systems, or they are their ability to reason, that's a core part of their identity. ...It's complicated.)

Secondary

You sound really really Snakey. I'm not sure where you're getting Badger, actually!

Badgers are more than the mirroring ability. They also bury themselves in work or community, and it can sometimes look like they're neck deep in so many responsibilities that they couldn't possibly handle any more problems--and then they do have a problem, they do need something, and they stand up and all that stuff they were buried in turns out to be armor and tools.

Snakes, otoh, are improvisational and tend to be very aware of their surroundings. Unlike Badgers, the Snake brand of social shapeshifting involves a lot of keeping track of other people's reactions to what they're doing--trying something and then watching the response, then adjusting, rinse and repeat. You turn yourself into exactly the right person for this situation.

Badger mirroring is usually simpler. You reflect the other person's energy back at them: it's an empathetic response that says we're alike, I accept you, you're safe. A lot of Badgers do this without thinking--it can be hard to turn off.

Snakes also don't go in for prep work as much, it tends to trip them up (Snakes with Badger or Bird models notwithstanding). They're Improvisational secondaries, unlike Bird and Badger which are Built and rely heavily on some form of preparation.

The Lion model sounds legit, but just check for yourself: you might be learning to use Snake's neutral state. Snakes will sometimes drop all their layers of acting and maneuvering and suddenly they're just themselves. Different Snakes have different relationships with neutral state. For some Snakes, it's a relief to drop the mask; for others, it feels vulnerable and they only trust certain people with their full authenticity.

It does sound like you really admire Lion secondaries, though, so you might indeed have a model there! This is just something else you could check on.

Hope that helps!

- Paint

[air-in-words]

My Sorting Hat Chats Journey

So, hi! I'm back!

I've been doing fun stuff off in the real world, but I decided to talk a little bit about my own Sorting Hat Chats sorting journey, and how it says a lot about self-acceptance, and how understanding who you really are can sometimes only come from being an active participant in life. Here we goooo...

The Beginning

So, my initial sorting was a Burnt Badger/Bird. This had struck me, because I'd never considered myself a Badger in ANY media. I was seen by my friends as a borderline loner, someone who didn't need anyone else. And yet, all the signs were there.

Looking back on my life, I've always migrated in groups, always looked for a nesting ground, and truly that's all I want. A place to nest, a place to rest, where I can feel safe and surrounded by people who love me. But, after a childhood filled with bullying, I found myself embarrassed of my bold face need for friends, and, for some reason, decided getting too close to people for too long was unwise, so I could probably never have a permanent home. And yet, I always found myself in these little "groups," little packs of people that all travel together.

I've always had these friend groups, where everyone knows each other, we all hang out together, and yet it always manages to eventually fall apart. I asked one of my friends how this keeps happening, and who keeps setting up these groups. She blinked sort of vaguely and said, "uh, you do." It was such a strange realization to look back and see myself as the "shepherd" I was, always creating a flock wherever I went. I had always been the spoke of my friend wheels, the only one that was friends with everyone, or actively tried to be friends with everyone. And I would attempt to hold it together, but it would always ultimately shatter, and I'd leave to find and form another. Family is important to me, and it isn't enough for me to bond with one person. I like for all my friends to be friends with each other, for us all to hang out together and enjoy each other's company.

So, although I still struggle, Burnt Badger came out on top, and I believe is still at the top to this day. I still search for belonging. I still search for family. And, yet, my heart seems to have no intention of unburning. Until recently, I had no idea why.

On the other hand, the secondary I received, Bird, seemed to fit like a glove, and was very obvious to me. I've been called the Encyclopedia before, I was made fun of for being caught reading the dictionary like it was a book, and I always seem to have a "fun fact" for every occasion. And all of this seemed to flow directly into me trying to use these facts and this knowledge to win people over, to get to see me as someone that could be their friend, or that I could be reliable as a member of their "group." So, Burnt Badger/Bird simply made sense. The reasons for me avoiding unburning my primary were irrelevant.

The Now

I'd been gone from this side of Tumblr for a bit, and decided to return on a whim. Saw @wisteria-lodge still posting as much as ever, and saw a lot of my posts had been passed around in the meantime (thank ya by the way) and decided to dive back in, because since then, so much of my life has changed. I've had certain people out of my life for a while that were a hindrance on my self-acceptance, I've moved out of my childhood home, and left a job I've had for the past 5 years. I've been forced to constantly LIVE, to make choices, actual choices, and have been offered the chance to be who I truly am, unapologetically.

So, I took the quiz again, curious if I would come up any different.

I got Burnt Badger/Burnt Snake.

This time, I was almost insulted. A flush of memories, of past feelings came to me, most of all the need to push back, to insist in exasperation I'M NOT A LIAR, as though I was tired of defending myself. As hard as I tried, I somehow couldn't seem to get Bird secondary to reappear.... at all. Which was so crazy, because before, that was pretty much all I could get.

So, I went to the experts, the aforementioned wisteria-lodge and @sortinghatchats .

I looked through the Snake secondary tags and found myself lost in memories I had pushed down, so far down even I couldn't find them, wracked with shame and a need to hide this side of myself, something I'd hidden so well I'd pretty much convinced myself it had never existed.

Being a Bird had always been a choice for me. I decided that was what people must want, becoming intelligent, knowing all of these things, showing off, that would make people like me. But, although I can devour books like nobody's business, and I tend to worry and whinge before every major decision, feeling unprepared, I would always find myself falling short of my own expectations. The amount of times I'd promised myself and others to create a plan and study hard, ultimately fail to do so, and then lie to everyone about it was astounding. My public image continued to be "air-in-words the smart girl" but my private image was still LIAR and FAKE.

I would still somehow get all A's. I was very good at remembering facts and excellent at taking tests. I always thought of them like little tricks themselves, meant to trip you up, but if you paid attention, you could figure out the patterns and be able to bluster your way through stuff you might not even fully understand. You can figure out certain words through context clues, and I was always very comfortable trusting my memory with little preparation beforehand. And yet, I still lied and told everyone I'd studied, at least as a child, before high school.

Math was what eventually messed me up, and sent my self-image whirling into the ground. My grades suddenly went from straight A's to D's and F's. My parents were aghast, what had happened??? I was so intelligent, so smart, such a good student. What had gone wrong?? And, although I never admitted it outloud to them, I knew the answer. With math, you can't trick your way out. You either know how to do it and give the right answer, or you don't. And I had never studied a day in my life, never practiced, never worked hard at all. It was my horrible little secret and math had outed me. It continues to out me, because rather than actually work at it and get better, I managed to keep my grades through high school afloat by leaning on my other grades and taking remedial math courses with a teacher who loved me very much and would let me off easy. To this day, honestly, I can barely count. I might actually have some form of dyscalculia, but I know that if I were willing to try a little harder I could get better. But, why would I do that, when this way works just fine? Just coasting through? But, again, no one could know. Not even myself.

Through high school, I began letting people in on my secret Snake, because being a "slacker" was suddenly cool. I still couldn't let my parents know, or the teachers, but coming clean about not being a keener was what earned me new friend groups. I wasn't some weirdo who actually studied all the time: I was a kid who maybe did 60-70% of my homework and slid by on my good memory and general interest in learning. And my reputation. My reputation was key to my success.

College would be the thing that completely threw me to the ground. There were simply too many sirens singing at me, distractions pulling me away from my work. I'd never looked less like a Bird than in college. I was always skipping class, always not studying, and in fact, would openly fail most of my courses. And I just didn't seem to care. I slid into what I guess must have been a sort of neutral zone, but I wasn't happy. The mask was slipping off and I needed out. I couldn't keep up this charade anymore. It was stifling, trying to be a Bird, going to college for a very Bird degree, surrounded by actual Birds, it was all very much what I didn't want. I wanted something less "academic," less, well, boring. Maybe more Snake like.

And, so, here we are. Currently dropped out of college, living in an apartment with my friend, away from my parents' prying eyes, and with a new job that I chose for myself. On the brink of finally understanding myself, and maybe accepting myself as I am.

My Badger primary is burned because of my Snake secondary. Because I thought I was a sham, a liar, a con, and I didn't feel like I deserved to have people close to me. Those traits are bad, and I was a bad person. No one should be tricked by me.

But, after reading some of the stories from the experts and other Snake secondaries, I found this crazy thought, that perhaps being this way isn't a bad thing. Maybe I'm not a bad person. Maybe it's okay to be who I am. Maybe I can use these "powers" for good, and they aren't inherently evil.

So, at least for now, I'm choosing to identify as Burnt Badger/Burnt Snake with Bird Model. Seeing how it feels to accept myself and not try and force myself to be who I think I should be, or who others want me to be (which is a Snake secondary thing in the first place. Lol!)

For Fun, Here's Some Crazy Actual Snake Secondary Things I've Done That I'm Trying to Be Less Ashamed of Now

When I was little, I used to make up crazy stories about things I'd done to seem more interesting. The one that makes me cringe the most is that my uncle has a statue in his backyard that comes to life and goes on adventures with me. My uncle DID have a statue in his backyard that I really loved but no, it didn't (and still hasn't) come to life.

Some of these, I can't explain, like this one, where I somehow had more than one teacher convinced I'd handed in every piece of homework before the one I was giving them the sob story about that day. I literally had a teacher look me in the face, tell me I'd been handing in my homework really well thus far and knew I was trustworthy, so they'd let me slide with no mark against me. Meanwhile, I had missed the homework for the past THREE WEEKS IN A ROW. I just smiled and let it go. Variations of this situation happened throughout high school and college. And, no, I had no good reason not to do the homework. I just didn't want to do it. Lol.

I usually live in the "neutral state" around my close friends, since I think it's disrespectful not to be straight with them, but I have had to turn it on to help them occasionally. One of my friends was having issues with an ex of hers, she was thinking that maybe she should go back out with the guh, and I had been my blunt, neutral self the whole time, telling her flat out that that was a bad idea. But, it wasn't working. "Neutral state" isn't like a Lion's forceful natural state, I guess. So, I decided I would have to push her in a certain direction to help her get through it. I told her she should go back out with him, and although she did sort of call me out for lying, knowing I didn't actually want that, I told her she should if she really think she should. The dude didn't last one date without showing his ass again, and she thanked me for making her do that. Lol.

Finally, at least for this list, my most prized shameful memory, is when I was taking an acting class in college. We were supposed to create a wordless scene as our final, and I hadn't prepared anything, so I just skipped the day we were supposed to do them. But, I decided to show up for the last day to see if I could still somehow pass. She's going through the grades, and looks up and asks me, "I don't have anything written down for you, I can't remember, did you give a performance or not?" I knew I hadn't then, but decided to give one now. I told her yes I had done one, don't you remember came up with a name on the fly. The same friend from the last story was staring at me like she was about to burst. She thought for a moment, then exclaimed, "ah, of course! Yes, I think I remember. I remember you'd done pretty well. What grade did I give you?" I hedged my bets and said A-. Lol. I had never been filled with more pride shame in my life.

[mooglesorts]

hmmm... does it sound like a bird secondary/bird model thing to be, for lack of a better word, territorial?

not necessarily in the sense of, like, getting defensive and driving people off (although if someone gets into My Territory who makes the space unpleasant for me in some way i’ll be distressed and irritated). more like... establishing a home base, i guess? and slowly expanding my comfort zone from there. people, communities, my living space, there will usually be a few that i come back to when i’m too tired or overwhelmed to keep track of everything else. 

examples: 

---

when i’m in a discord server that i want to participate in more than in passing, i’ll usually start by camping out in one channel for a while and ignoring all the others. from there, once i’ve gotten to know people who frequent that channel, feel like they’ve gotten to know me, and feel like i’m Established there, i’ll start expanding out into other channels one or two at a time until i’m familiar with the whole server. it deadass took me half a year to branch out from the vent/mature topics channels in my current main server, and then it took months more for me to catch up to the whole server. if i don’t do it this way i’ll be overwhelmed, eventually get bored, and trip off my feeling-left-out-of-a-community sore spots. 

(which is a Thing about using snake secondary to reach out and do new things. sometimes it’s a lot of fun to just go where i feel like and explore! but if a) there’s nothing i can really do without spending money i don’t have, b) i get the side-eye for being Poor and Socially Awkward and Doing Things Weird, c) i don’t happen to be into some anime fandom i don’t care about that everyone else does, and have had zero opportunity to get at least a little invested in it in order to connect with people, d) i get ignored because no one knows me or is invested in the things i contribute; or e) i just plain go past my limits because i didn’t realize going in how much energy i’d be expending on the thing... i get bored, fast. what’s the point? might as well just turn around and go home; at least it’s comfy.)

(badger secondary model?)

---

i’m prone to homesickness. i’ve gotten a little better about it over the years, and after moving so many times in such short succession, but it’s really hard to let go of My Territory the more memories and familiarity i’ve built there. it’s super rough on me emotionally from anywhere to a few days to a couple weeks, and any time i think about it, but otherwise i adjust pretty fast to my new surroundings. 

(the exception here is when i, well... avoid going out and exploring snake-style, because i don’t want to get attached and then deal with the grief of leaving it behind later on. housing instability trauma sucks, and i’m still struggling to figure out how to deal with that.)

part of that might be having stayed in one place for most of my growing up, but it’s like... pretty easy for me to designate a new place as a home base even if i still miss the old one? idk. even when i have nothing left there, i still think of everywhere i’ve intentionally planted my flag as One of My Places.

---

it often takes me a long time to get comfortable with interacting with someone on a regular, friendly basis the closer the space i get to know them in. a lot of people who are now good friends of mine i had to build up my comfort levels with for years. there’s usually a moment of like... ‘oh okay this is our Friendship Unlocked Moment. the dam is broken,’ and even if we go long periods of time without talking a lot in private i don’t feel anxious and suffocated when we do. sometimes the Friendship Unlocked moment is one thing that happens all at once, and sometimes it’s several things over a long period of time until the scale tips for good. this is one reason i get cagey about initiating those friendship moments too directly sometimes, just because i know i might need to pull back and have space for a while again for the friendship to develop, and i don’t want to hurt people’s feelings.

weirdly enough, though, this process tends to be circumvented a lot the more distance there is between me and another person while i’m getting to know them? if i had gotten into the shc community by joining a server i would be way more shy, anxious, and wary, but when most of my potential-friendship-moments interactions with people take place on tumblr where it’s easier to get some space if i need to, it makes it way less uncomfortable and anxiety-inducing to point and go ‘friend! :D’ i’d probably be fine with exchanging discords with most of the people i’ve met on here at this point. 

it’s like the difference between meeting people and making friends at a hobby group where you meet once a week, and making friends by having to invite them over to your house every day. 

---

i’m very much the kind of person who will stick close with the friend who invited me to a party, lmao, or if i’m tagging along on a trip but don’t want to be there (or don’t want to deal with the hassle of finding them again if i wander off). sometimes i’ll jump right into a new situation and start making friends, but i get anxiety pretty easily about making people feel snubbed or left out if i don’t have the time or energy to engage with everything, so often i’ll just fall back on one or two options i’m most familiar with and let everything else pass me by. i used to be the kind of kid/teenager who’d stick so close behind people on public outings that i’d constantly be bumping into them by accident. (once again, if i didn’t want to be there, wasn’t allowed to go do my own thing, or was--in hindsight--dissociating.)

---

just... hm. thoughts? to me this sounds like either snakey, badgery rapidfire bird, or birdy, badgery snake who uses the other two to cover for social awkwardness/feelings of alienation/lack of time or energy/depression from my burned snake. or shit, maybe it’s badger all along, who knows.

[sevilemar]

Hiya! Quick question for you - I'm autistic and so the social part of any secondary doesnt make sense to me, do you have any information about the non social aspects? Thank you!

Snake: improvisational & circumventing (aka situational)

When you need something done, you look around at what you have to work with. Then you take what's there and you look for shortcuts or other ways around the problem. If it doesn't doesn't work, you tweak what you're doing, or change your approach altogether and use something else that's lying around. Because what's there is seldom what you usually use to accomplish a task, you end up using things in weird ways. I cleaned a watering can on the inside with a rag and a fork once, or fished out something that had fallen under my cupboard with an umbrella. You don't mind surprises. You find yourself reacting to them without thinking. Generally, you don't like plans or schedules, but in some situations preparing a little is just good sense (storage bunker snake).

[Multiplayer: +fluid]

Bird: circumventing (aka situational) & built (aka foundational)

When you need something done, you look at the situation from a distance. Then you take the skills and tools you brought with you and look for shortcuts or other ways around the problem. If it doesn't work, you tweak what you are doing, or change your approach altogether and look at what else you have in your kit that will get it done. Because you want to be prepared for a lot of different situations, you will probably collect skills and tools in advance as best you can. Making plans helps you choose what tools to bring to the situation, or what skills to learn in advance. Generally you don't like surprises because you couldn't prepare for them, and it might take you a moment to react. But if you are in a situation you know well, you don't mind so much because you already know what needs to be done (rapid fire bird).

[Multiplayer: +solid]

Badger: built (aka foundational) & straightforward (aka inspirational)

When you need something done, you look for something that will work in any situation, always. Skills can be learned and forgotten, tools can be collected and discarded; the one thing you have found to be true no matter what is to just do what needs to be done. Finding shortcuts feels like cheating yourself out of an opportunity to understand something from the ground up and make it your own, step by step. Because your work is slow and steady and constant, you don't generally like surprises. They divert your time and energy in a random direction that has nothing to do with what you are working on. But if you already have a solid foundation of knowledge and experience and your conviction is strong, you don't mind so much. You find that the work you have already done has prepared you well, and you adapt the surprise into what you already now.

[Multiplayer: +fluid]

Lion: straightforward (aka inspirational) & improvisational

When you need something done, you look around at what you have to work with. Then you take what's there and use it to just do what needs to be done. Skills can be learned and forgotten, tools are a temporary means to an end; the one thing you have found to be true no matter what is that if you stay true to who you are, you can solve any problem. If it doesn't work, you haven't tried hard enough. You don't need shortcuts because you have already chosen the easiest method anyway. Because your conviction is strong, you feel like you have failed to do what needs to be done if you are forced to do it another way. You don't mind surprises. Except for providing you with a temporary challenge, they have little influence on how you do things.

[Multiplayer: +solid]