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#i just think they did him dirty
chaotic-kitty · 5 months
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Talking to (info dumping on) my partner just now about Tech, and man, I'm forever going to be salty over how his death went.
If they were gonna kill him off for emotional impact/shock value, they could've at least done something more with it. They had all of this material they could've worked with to create an episode in memoriam or just include in the episodes we had. Like:
Omega telling Cross about Techs death
Wrecker and Hunter telling Phee about Tech (especially given what their last interaction + implied relationship was)
Shep and Lyanna learning of Tech's death
Echo telling Rex about Tech
Everyone also finding out about Omega's kidnapping
Seeing how Wrecker and Hunter dealt with mourning Tech while also searching tirelessly for Omega
Seeing how Omega and Crosshair dealt with mourning him while being held captive
How they all dealt with the loss when they were together again. Like giving him a proper memorial or something
There's just....more they could've done to acknowledge his death and the impact it would've had. Hell, Echo got more focus in some ways when he left the BB and he didn't even die. And they could've framed the episode in so many ways, too.
This wasn't just some random person. He was a main character, a brother, a beloved member of the squad. He deserved a bit more. Especially as it felt like the only times people brought him up were when they could've used his knowledge. And there was more to him than what he could do for them.
Had he been revealed to be alive somehow, maybe it would've been a bit more understandable. But he didn't. If they truly wanted more impact and shock, imagine how much more our souls would've been crushed, and our hearts ripped to pieces, had we gotten an episode or something showing the stages of shock and grief they all would've gone through.
And the thing is, this was still a creative choice that was made. Sure, higher ups could've interfered but like, why? If you're going to kill a character or put them through something, the least you could do is to do the storyline justice. Especially as his death only saved them for a moment before they were ultimately put on a path that they were. And it honestly just feels cheap and like a waste. All of that character growth and teasing of romance just to be killed off - via a sacrifice that was avoidable had they thought things through more - and tossed aside to allow for a dragged on storyline next season. :/
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egophiliac · 10 months
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I have SO many thoughts about everything and they are in no kind of order yet, so here's just some quick little bits in the meantime!
I am not normal about any of these characters!
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#art#twisted wonderland#twisted wonderland spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland episode 7 part 6 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 spoilers#twisted wonderland book 7 part 6 spoilers#me just staring at the ceiling thinking about anime characters#if i start talking about the big stuff now it's going to turn into a huge rambling mess so in the meantime#i did not get sebek (yet) (i need to contemplate my gems...) but i did see his groovy#he is just full-on cinderella-sparkles bibbidi-bobbidi-booing into that armor! magnificent.#and i really don't have enough words for how much i love tiny malleus. he is perfect. he is precious. he is everything to me.#he knows who his dad is no matter what some crusty dead talking ectoplasm blobs say#(man no wonder lilia's got hangups if THAT was the general attitude he was getting)#('eww you got your dirty bat cooties on the prince' go sit in the corner with mrs. rosehearts you absolute garbage)#(...i did kind of love that lilia started to wake up because the senate said one nice thing to him)#(and he immediately was like 'this is not reality')#(sounds about right)#on a lighter note i was just. SO charmed by the little throwaway about ✨dragon lord consort esteemed diplomat revaan✨#who picks the vegetables out of his food and hides them under the tablecloth#everything i learn about this man makes me like him more. he was SO dumb.#now we know where malleus gets it from i guess#also unrelated but once again the fact that i named my mc tamago has had unintentional consequences#tamago take the tamago and tamago tamagao tamago#frikkin love that when yuu gives the egg back you can just be like 'i love him. this is my baby now.' 100% accurate.#also yuu continually referring to malleus as tsunotarou even to the senate = amazing. yuu really has NO self-preservation or awareness.#they fit right in with everyone else#<- see what did i tell you. huge rambling mess.#and i haven't even BEGUN to talk about MELEANOR -- (is dragged offstage by a hook)
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dendroaspis-viridis · 2 months
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I'm begging you, BioWare... Learn from the mistakes of Baldur's Gates past...
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ryllen · 10 months
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maybe i do want us to kiss a little more
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crybaby-bkg · 1 year
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cw: mentions of being on birth control, mention of maybe getting pregnant, scent kink
have you guys ever heard of like…..being attracted to someone’s smell which means you’ll pair together really well??? and there have been cases where people get off birth control and it intensifies the smell and either makes it completely unbearable or even fucking better for the person??? okay THAT but with Bakugou…….,,,
you’re on birth control for whatever reason, and you’ve always pretty much liked his smell. it’s always been distant scents of caramel, a little sharp twang of spice whenever he comes home sweaty. and usually, you’ll let him chase you around the house while you laugh about him needing a shower because he stinks—but it’s all in jest.
and maybe, after a couple years of being with him, you get off of it for whatever reason—you wanna get pregnant, or it’s not serving you anymore, or you just don’t wanna be on it for any longer. and there’s—there’s a certain shift in the air whenever you’re around him.
you feel like a fuckin cat in heat when you stand near him, always pressing your face against the slickest parts of his skin. your nose buried in his palms, pressing sweet and gentle kisses to the hardened skin.
and Bakugou doesn’t understand what the fuck is going on with you, or why you always want to lay in his armpit, but he doesn’t complain much. even when he catches you huffing his dirty workout tanks and wearing his already worn boxers around the house.
but you can’t help it!! you just wanna bathe in his scent—now slick and honeyed and cinnamon—until you pass out from forgetting to exhale. and you’re such a perv about it that he can’t help but tease you—for licking the sweat from his collarbones whenever he’s on top of you. for inhaling where his scent lays stronger on the skin beneath his balls. for burying your nose in his pits whenever he stretches in the morning.
calls you his sick little pervert, getting off to his sweat, tells you how nasty you are for liking something so depraved. but your shame has abandoned you—all you care about and crave is his scent covering you in every way, shape, and form.
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foxcort · 29 days
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i think it would’ve been better if rhysand hiding his wings chafed a bit. like his body prefers to have them out and that hiding them goes against what’s natural to him. but he does it as a way to ‘fit in’ with the rest of High Fae society who would probably not take him seriously or treat him as lesser if he showed up to a meeting with his wings out. i think it would humanize, for lack of a better word, him if he had moments around feyre or the ic where he lets his wings out and it’s a relief to, instead of using them as a scaring tactic or a display of strength.
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ooogleys · 6 days
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DRDT SPOILERS IN TAGS!!!!
highkey i would hate being ace markey
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Recently got back into Demon Slayer and OOHHHH MY GOD Tanjiro Kamado they could never make me hate you (has never done anything wrong in his entire life)
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reineyday · 3 months
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mishanks mafia au where shanks is the don of the gol family and and mihawk is a hitman hired by the government (it's a conspiracy!) to kill shanks.
when mihawk shows up, shanks puts up a great fight, and even tho shanks loses (he's on the ground with hawk's blade at his throat!), mihawk decides shanks is way funner than the government and doesn't kill him after all. mihawk intends for this to be the end, with exception for perhaps more fights in the future, but shanks has already fallen on love and starts trying his damndest to get mihawk to work for the gols.
mihawk always refuses, but when the government puts out a hit on mihawk because he broke contract, mihawk finds himself thoroughly protected by the gol family anyways. shanks, however, doesn't save mihawk fast enough to spare the hitman some torture so, in retaliation, shanks brings down the entire government and exposes the conspiracy while he's at it, with the finale being a grand announcement that mihawk is his, actually, back the fuck off and don't try this again.
by the end, mihawk still doesn't work for the gols, but if he marries into the family, well. "there's still a difference, red." (shanks whines about this daily.)
#mishanks#akataka#rei rambles#the competing families are the other emperors btw#and shanks is grooming luff to take over the gol family territory but luffy has designs to take the whole city like gol d roger once did#zoro is one of luffy's friends that hangs around the family compound. he sees mihawk enter the premisis during the initial hit#and goes to kill mihawk before mihawk gets to shanks's rooms but mihawk takes him out quickly and efficiently.#zoro kind of imprints on him from there and decides he wants to beat mihawk one day.#he decides one day after shanks clearly survives the hit that he'd be okay asking mihawk for mentorship and this becomes another#aspect of shanks's bargain to get mihawk to work for the gols lol.#i also think it'd be funny if the next time zoro sees mihawk after getting his ass beat that first time#it's to see hawk getting unceremoniusly dragged out of a car trunk bound and gagged and looking supremely annoyed#and shanks bounds out of the compound happily to ask mihawk to work for him and mihawk kills the driver and his two goons without a word#and instead of being mad shanks laughs and he's like 'dont worry hawky i just hired krieg and his guys go drive you bc i know theyre dirty!#i was gonna have them killed anyways ☺️ look at u practically working for us anyways! 🥰����'#and mihawk straight up punches shanks in the face for this lol he's so annoyed. he's still got duct tape over his mouth.#shanks has hearts in his eyes. zoro didn't even see mihawk move and those guys were already dead! he DEFINITELY needs this guy's mentorship.#i digress
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braceletofteeth · 9 months
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Strangers From Hell Incorrect Quotes [13/?]
insp.
#strangers from hell#seo moonjo#yoon jongwoo#gifset#*#incorrect quotes#//#ok so technically the quote is from IWTV#but what inspired me was this one fic I read yesterday#where Jongwoo tells Moonjo he hates him while they're making out#and the Moonjo there enjoyed that so much. So much you'd think that's dirty talk to him#and. hm. yeah. to me that tracks.#the idea of being able to get under Jongwoo's skin deeper than anyone else#to provoke burning and disorienting reactions with your existence alone#in such a way you just CANNOT be ignored#that sounds. uh. pretty good. very satisfying. from a Moonjo point of view.#but. why did I match this dialogue with this scene you may ask-#well for one I really like the acknowledgement that comes with ''as you should''#no denial. no begging. no bargaining.#if that person hates you that's because you gave them a reason to and you know it#you know you deserve it#you deserve the consequences of your actions. your punishment.#this time. from this one person.#the one person you hold in higher regard than yourself. the only one whose feelings matter more than your own.#if you're in the receiving end of their rage and disgust you should cherish it#that might be all you are ever gonna get from them. all of them that is ever gonna be yours.#their hatred might be the most personal‚ most intimate feeling they will share with you.#... and that's why I picked this scene: the closeness. the intimacy.#Moonjo's surrender. the way he just lays there and wait. watch. the look of reverence in his eyes.#reverence tinted with fondness and pride. with bliss.
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designernishiki · 1 year
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it’s kinda funny to me how that dumb scene in kiwami 1 of majima getting shot and left for dead in the harbor was basically just added as a half-assed way to explain majima not being around for a bit of the plot, but they accidentally(?) just made it seem like start of a chain reaction where majima ended up feeling slighted and heartbroken after being abandoned like that and then lashed out about it via smashing a big truck into the building kiryu was in. and yeah that isn’t inherently a romantic thing as-is but then they go and add the part where majima grabs a hostess and performatively hits on her as in-kiryu’s-face as possible, she says she’s already in love with someone, and majima lets her go immediately, no questions asked, making a big fucking point of it just to say see THAT kiryu? I appreciate when people are HONEST about their FEELINGS. people who won’t just BACKSTAB someone who CARES about them to save themselves. is that so crazy kiryu?? huh??? anyway make it up to me get down here and fight me right fucking now
#I think on another level he was sorta saying like ‘hey kiryu. you’re making it extremely clear that you don’t trust me and my intentions#and I’ve been trying to show you- over and over again- that I’d do just about anything for you and your safety#but I can’t just let my mask fall off in front of everyone- I need to keep up the unpredictable morally grey wildcard act for both my sake#AND yours. because disguising my helping you as crazy random violent outbursts and weird stalker behavior#is the only way I CAN help you. do you think it would go over well with shimano or literally anyone else if I was outright helping you out#of the kindness of my heart and fondness for you? stop being so fucking dense and look past the crazy wacky nonsense for a second and#maybe you’ll realize that all I do at the end of the day- really- is help you and put my own life and reputation on the line for you.#I am an honest guy when it comes to my real values and when I told you I wouldn’t let anyone kill you unelss it was myself- I meant it.#I’ve taken a knife and a bullet for you now. can you REALLY not see through the act yet? am I REALLY that unpredictable when you think about#it?’#that was a longer explanation than i intended but. it was difficult to put into words#I basically feel like it could be read as him implying kiryu shouldn’t backstab the people who put themselves on the line to help him#and/or pointing out that he’s never actually done kiryu dirty and has stuck to his word protecting him in the ways he can#trying to say yeah all this is a crazy act and all but when it comes down to it you Can trust me#it really makes sense when you think about it that he’d have to help kiryu/show affection towards kiryu in unpredictable convoluted ways#at that point in time because. I mean. there’s a reason he was the only person who showed up to welcome kiryu when he got out of prison#and that’s because A) he sticks to his word and his loyalty to people he cares about and B) no one else had the balls or the batshit insane#mask to wear to ward off anyone asking real questions like majima did. because ANYONE associating themselves with the supposed#patriarch-killer was a HUGE NO-NO at the time. someone important showing up for kiryu and welcoming him back outright could’ve caused#all-out warfare probably. except majima. because majima was dedicated and smart enough to use his widely-feared wildcard persona#(that everyone tended to view as incapable of having any Real agenda to worry about) to his And kiryu’s advantage#does that make sense??? I feel like it makes a lot of sense if you get it to click in your head#kazumaji#majima#kiryu#yakuza#kiwami 1#yk1#rambling
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badbookkeeping · 11 months
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barely getting my thoughts in order here, but boston was always going to end up alone. even before we see him in the show he was planning on leaving, so he stirred shit up and acted impulsively and without fearing the consequences because he was going to new york soon anyways and wouldnt have to deal with it. the tragedy for him is that when things started catching up to him, he learnt that he very much did care. he thought he could simply cut ties and leave and not feel anything, but having those ties cut for him shows him how wrong he was about that
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zaacoy · 2 years
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but what if he was fluffy tho,,,
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loch-detected · 2 months
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I think if it wasn’t for the whole criminal thing I think people would like Cromdo
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necrotic-nephilim · 1 month
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for the ask game (1)
au where bruce is attracted to his robins and batgirls. he tries not to think about it or act on it, but it's getting more difficult with every new member of his team he acquires. does anyone know? do the robins and batgirls notice his weird behavior? what do they do about it? do they ever find out the truth? who would think it's terrible and who would find it strangely hot/comforting/nice? does bruce ever act on his feelings?
for the ask game!
oh my GOD do i have thoughts for AUs like this, i love this shit so dearly, dirtybadwrong Bruce who's trying to keep a lid on it my beloved.
i think the fun of this AU is if characters would notice Bruce lusting for themselves vs would they notice Bruce lusting for a different Robin/Batgirl. like does Dick pick up on it when it's just him and Bruce? no, because it's just. him and Bruce. he and Bruce are weird and complicated and hold endless bounds of nuance. that's just How Bruce Is, and Dick is the "test run", in a sense. he knows Bruce is new to this whole sidekick/family thing and is giving Bruce grace for being rough around the edges. but when Bruce starts looking at Jason or Tim or Cass that way, that's when Dick starts to notice. it's never enough of a suspicion he feels justified to bring it up, but the thought lingers. he's hyperaware and grows less and less comfortable with leaving them alone with Bruce. it's a weird game of chicken, Dick and Bruce staring each other down when Bruce's touch lingers too long. each waiting for the other to say something first. if Bruce ever broke and actually acted on his feelings, Dick would be eaten alive by the guilt of knowing something was up, but never saying something until it was too late.
obviously, Cass would know. there's no world where Cass *doesn't* know, the nature of who and what she is would immediately clock it. but the issue is, Cass doesn't have a good framework of what family looks like. she doesn't really understand familial vs romantic love bc she has no firsthand experience of what a parent's love should even look like. so she never calls it out. she just watches. i'm a fan of Cass believing this is normal and believing she too can express and act on attraction that's vaguely incestuous. maybe it's with Babs, maybe it's with Dick or Tim or Bruce himself. but she recognizes this as Normal and Accepted within the Batfamily, so it severely fucks up her understanding of familial love and i just. man it's my favorite thing about Cass in Batcest honestly, is how you can play with her lack of experience with love, boundaries, and sexuality.
Tim is the fun one for me. because my favorite flavor of BruTim is when Tim knows, as he agrees to be Robin, that there's a non-zero chance that Bruce is going to be Weird and agrees anyway because he's decided it's an acceptable risk. so Tim knows from the get-go because he's expecting it. if Bruce acts on his attraction, i think it's either with Tim or Cass first, because they're the most likely to confront him about it in a way that isn't entirely negative. Tim has accepted it's a possibility and Cass just seeks being loved and touched so. it leads to the first time someone's ever confronted Bruce about it. and the thing is, Bruce really doesn't like confrontation about his flaws. the first time Tim tries to imply he's okay with it, Bruce would lash out at the idea, tell Tim how inappropriate that is and benches Tim for a week. it'd probably take a united front from Cass and Tim to get Bruce to even *admit* to the attraction. still Bruce wouldn't allow it to happen and he brushes them off until finally, the dam breaks. it's fun if there's a cause like sex pollen, but i think it's *more* fun if it's just. a random fucking Tuesday and finally Bruce is at his limit. he has no real reason, there's nothing particularly different about that day's routine. he just sees Tim or Cass striping armor and sighs and gives in.
i don't think Steph, Jason, or Babs would notice until anything substantial happened. not because they're not wicked smart, but just because none of them were looking for it. Jason put Bruce on a pedestal when he was alive, and when he came back from the dead he wasn't close enough to be noticing Bruce's interpersonal dynamics outside of his narrow scope. Steph has no real framework for what healthy fatherhood looks like, so if Bruce's touches linger, if he stares too long, she just shrugs and assumes it's how it is. and Babs was just never quite close enough to Bruce to notice. if and when she notices, is when actual sexual things start to happen between Cass and Bruce. because Cass would see no reason to hide it. Babs would be pissed, but it'd be tricky to navigate. Cass would be an adult, even if she's only 18/19, so technically, she's old enough to be consenting. if nothing else, Bruce is a careful man. even when he breaks and gives in to his desires, he covers his tracks well. he makes sure he has enthusiastic consent and there's no legal recourse that could be taken. age of consent and all that. there's not much Babs can *do* other than try to tell Cass (and/or Tim) that this isn't normal or okay. not that it gets her anywhere, but god would she try.
by the time Duke comes along (if we venture out of the pre-Flashpoint era) i think it's a sort of. open secret, in the Batfamily. talked about in nothing but hushed whispers and knowing glances. at some point, they've all had sex with Bruce, caving all for different reasons. some more than others. Tim sees it as a duty, Cass sees it as a way of seeking comfort, Steph sees it as getting Bruce's approval for once, etc. it's never forced on them, but eventually, they all come to Bruce sooner or later. and that's the fun irony of it, i think. they try to convince the others not to, but would go to Bruce on their own well. because complicated reasons they can't put into words. sometimes, Bruce is just a messy man who doesn't realize how prized his Attention to for the rest of the Batfamily. that weird duality of not liking him, but also wanting desperately for him to like you. all of them have dealt with it, at some point. so for Duke, it takes a while for him to understand this... whole dynamic. it's Cass who tries to explain it to him, and he's a little horrified, a lot confused. especially when Bruce starts staring at him a little too long as well. i think he'd only want to watch first but well. they all cave eventually.
also fun bonus if we venture into the Dark Knight Returns universe for my bestest girl Carrie Kelley: there's such a like, "i'm fucking around and i'm finding out" vibe to Carrie. like Tim, she's very proactive in just. deciding she's going to be Robin and she's ready for whatever that entails. (IMO canon Carrie is closer to fanon Tim than canon Tim is but *that* deserves its own post-) like she takes one look at the old man that is Batman and goes yup. he's never fucking getting rid of me now. if Bruce started having weird feelings about her, i think she'd have *fun* with it. she's decided she's in it for the long haul and for whatever being Robin means so. she's almost teasing about it, seeing how hard she can push before Bruce snaps. since it's an older, gruffer Bruce, i think he'd express open annoyance at it first, almost a sort of banter about how Carrie behave. but of course he caves and Carrie leans into it, because there's a fun in having all of Bruce's attention to herself. in the main timeline, Bruce is pretty split with so many Robins and Batgirls, but during their era, it's *just* her and him and she's very proud she's got him all to herself.
#bruce fucks/lusts after every batfam member and they all want to protect each other from him#but also they're all going to fuck him anyway bc they're hypocrite and self sacrificial.#necrotic answerings#ask game#brudick#brujay#brutim#brucass#brusteph#brubabs#bruduke#brucarrie#batcest#did i get all the ship names? god i hope so#listen i'm a pre-flashpoint girlie but know i believe there should be more duke in batcest spaces.#let him in on the fun. stop calling him the normal one. let him ALSO be toxic and gay damnit#though trying to figure out their ship name i cackling at the thought of it being bruke or duce. it's so fucking funny to me and idek why#also let carrie into batcest spaces damnit. there's so few bruce/carrie fics you're all uninspired /lh#anyway yeah i'm obsessed with the vibes of#does anyone like bruce? no but his attention. his approval. the things most of the batkids would do for it#i think you could do bruce/helena b with these vibes too#but ngl i got do mad at the batman: brave & the bold show for doing helena dirty by just making her hot for bruce#that i mentally tune that ship out#it's good. it has good potential for daddy issues.#but it just reminds me of how fucking *ass* helena is in that show. they fucked up my bbygirl.#idk why ppl like b:tb&tb so much. i don't think it's good??#is it nostalgia or something? like there's so many other better batman animated shows that can like. write women. idk that's just me#anyway love this concept so dearly <3#bruce who is so fucking bad at love he can't separate familial and romantic love my beloved <3#bruce wayne having *boundaries*? absolutely not in my good catholic batcest home.
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batsplat · 4 months
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as our resident Casey expert i wonder what do you think would have happened if marc and casey competed against each other? since casey retiring is so important for marc coming into motogp im always thinking abt the what ifs...
my initial instinct with this hypothetical is always 'that sounds horrible', though I do have more thoughts and opinions about it than that! marc obviously would have loved the chance to race casey, and casey has even been one of his picks of 'guys he would've liked to be teammates with' before, so, you know, clearly something there - and he does very much respect casey as a rider. I think it's quite likely that by the time marc entered the premier class, casey had already developed... I don't know if wariness is going too far, but maybe a little bit of unease or caution where marc was concerned. marc already very much had a reputation based on his 125/moto2 track record, and some of these incidents were controversial enough that the motogp riders commented on them. so take the phillip island 2011 incident where marc rode into the back of another rider:
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the valentino quote serves as a bit of a benchmark here, given he was generally pretty pro-marc. yes, casey's phrasing is perhaps a little harsher, but unsurprisingly none of the riders were big fans of marc's behaviour in that particular incident
on the other hand, it's not like casey never sided with marc. take catalunya 2012, where marc was slapped with a controversial post-race penalty:
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yes, casey's main complaint was about inconsistent stewarding - but still, he believed marc had been unfairly treated here. feels like these incidents were some of the only things casey and valentino actually agreed on in those years, so that's nice
that being said, it's hard to see how casey wouldn't have his issues with marc and marc's whole approach to racing. I did include some thoughts on the teammate question here, but mainly I'm going to pilfer the relevant autobiography passage:
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"if a rider doesn't care about his own safety then it stands to reason he doesn't care about anybody else's either"... there's nobody really who embodies the 'doesn't care about his own safety' maxim better than marc. he was the young rider desperate to win, and I can't imagine casey would have enjoyed actually racing him much. casey mostly didn't enjoy racing valentino, after all, who is a generally a lot more selective with his aggression than marc is (though casey did have to experience some of the worst valentino had to offer in that regard). casey talked in his autobiography about getting a sense when he just wasn't really able to trust another rider on the track, how much it bothered him - and that exact lack of respect is something that's been pretty closely associated with marc. that doesn't mean he would immediately declare marc his enemy... he'd just want marc to change, to learn, to grow up, to start treating his competitors with a little more respect. the way casey talks about young riders, there is a sense in which he has more time for them than he does for valentino - whose lack of respect casey views as more integral to who he is as a rider. valentino isn't a bully on track due to the exuberance of youth, he's a bully on track when he thinks he can use it as a tactic of intimidation. then again, marc by this measure is worse... and I think very quickly casey would have grown pretty disenchanted with how marc approaches all his wheel-to-wheel racing, especially when it becomes more and more clear marc does not feel particularly inclined to change
it's always important to remember how recent the trauma of losing simoncelli was for the whole sport, and it coloured both dani and jorge's wariness of marc... but also (in my opinion anyway) their restraint in how they dealt with him. how they tried to stop themselves from actually making an enemy out of him, in part because they'd just had an experience of harshly criticising a rider for a whole year and then having to process his death. both dani and jorge actually had more public and more serious disagreements with simoncelli than casey did, but I reckon there would have been an element of that restraint with casey too... on the other hand, his experiences with marc would have left him feeling even more alienated from the sport than he already was - at times frustrated (like jorge was) less with marc directly but more with the regulatory bodies for not holding marc back, for not giving him a race ban or whatever to teach him a lesson. that being said, marc's shamelessness vs casey's stubbornness means that if they had direct on-track encounters and casey didn't like marc's post-race response... well, I certainly think that'd end up being a pretty tense situation, even if it falls short of active hostilities
worth including irl!casey's take on marc in 2013:
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which, you know. it's not just that marc's a hard racer - casey is accusing marc of deliberately wanting to make the defeats extra painful for his opponents, of wanting to not just beat but humiliate them. anyone else that reminds you of? someone who is as motivated in securing his psychological victories as his actual ones? perhaps someone who has a bit of a history himself with casey?
let's bring in valentino. it's not that casey would really have begrudged marc his friendship with valentino, and he generally kept his hatred of valentino quite 'clean' in that he wasn't conducting any proxy wars or anything (for instance, I don't get the sense the vale/sic friendship ever affected his view of simoncelli... though I have very little to go on here either way). also, if nothing else in this timeline changes, we're assuming valentino in 2013 is fairly clearly the... fifth? best rider? kinda depends where dani would have landed I suppose (casey's retirement announcement did save honda from a bit of a headache)... but anyway what this means is that valentino probably wouldn't initially have been much of a competitive threat to casey. mostly he would have been consigned to the sidelines
that being said, I doubt casey would have massively enjoyed the whole laguna seca saga. unfortunately, we don't even really know what real life casey's stance on the copycat move situation was... though if I had to guess, in this timeline I'd say his position would've been, a) marc could and should have carried out that overtake two corners later, there was no need in that race situation to take that risk, b) still, it was valentino's slight error as he attempted to reclaim the position (in what was a pretty aggressive manner, it has to be said) that led to them both ending up off-track and fuck that guy, and c) the problem with 2008 wasn't just or even primarily the corkscrew overtake and it's annoying that that's the only bit everyone talks about. of course, there's also the question of whether casey would have bought marc's explanation that it was totally by coincidence that the overtake happened there... and again, complete guesswork, but my sense of casey is that he would have assumed marc was being at least a little bit dishonest. (which, you know... laguna's not an easy track to overtake at, but marc did prove with the bradl move that he was perfectly capable of overtaking after turn 8 - might not have been planning on the off-track excursion, but he was still attempting to overtake just ahead of a blind crest that happened to feed into the corkscrew lol.) I think casey by his honda days had calmed down a bit (though he still certainly had some conspiratorial tendencies), but I also don't think it's a stretch to imagine that he would've felt like he was a victim of a joke between the pair of them... not ideal
overall though, I reckon casey's main frustrations would have been less with the move itself and more with how it was discussed. in the presser, while joking with marc, valentino does take the opportunity to get in a jibe at casey for old time's sake. there's this clip, where he directly addresses livio suppo (at ducati in 2008, by then at honda) - specifically about how both casey and suppo criticised him for that overtake. in response, suppo says something about how he's grateful to marc because they finally got payback. valentino is later asked directly about casey's complaints in 2008 in this clip, and replies with the following:
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would valentino have said this stuff with casey still in the paddock? well, yes! honestly, given valentino did very quickly lay off needling casey once he had retired, there's a good chance he would have said something worse. and marc would have laughed along at the whole thing. I don't know, I just don't see casey taking particularly kindly to that... he can hold a grudge, that man can, and at a certain point he'd probably be increasingly less willing to give marc the benefit of the doubt. interesting situation though, laguna seca '13 + casey is a very juicy scenario that could play out in several different ways
but I'm guilty of burying the lede here - there's a far more obvious reason than anything I've described above for why the casey/marc relationship would have turned sour. it's the simple fact that they would have been teammates which would do the damage all on its lonesome; they have radically different conceptualisations of how that dynamic is supposed to work and would inevitably have clashed as a result. the one commonality they do have is they don't see their teammates as potential friends, which is... also not helpful! I think they'd probably initially be fine on the interpersonal level - and, actually, given how the casey/valentino relationship played out and marc's general approach to his rivalries, I can see marc/casey more or less being able to maintain a minimum standard of politeness towards each other even at their worst. like, I still think they'd be able to smile at each other and do some small talk when face-to-face, but I also think everything else would be a complete disaster. I talked a bit about how marc approaches his teammate relationships in this post - and I'm not going to rehash too much of what irl!marc got up to, but I'll include some bits relevant to casey
from marc:
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related to casey:
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and dani comparing the two:
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we do obviously even have actual real life controversy wherein casey thinks marc felt threatened by him and forced him out of honda... and this in a timeline where they weren't even direct competitors! if this is the level of tension a test rider role can generate, then if they'd actually been teammates...? yeah, no. casey thinks that teammates should cooperate - and he thinks that riders enforcing divisions within the box are essentially doing so because they are "afraid". marc has openly admitted to lying about what parts he likes to make sure his teammate doesn't get any edge over him. this is the thing, right: marc might think casey is a cool rider, would've liked the chance to race him and even be teammates with him... but this is the stuff he did to dani, who was one of his literal idols! this is his understanding of competition - (like valentino) he might love the fight, but simultaneously he'll do pretty much whatever it takes to win, because he considers this stuff fundamentally part of the game. casey does not. to casey, this kind of victory is dishonest. any kind of gamesmanship is a sign of weakness... the victory is worth less if you're accomplishing it like that
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now, hey, maybe marc would never have been able to go as far as he did with dani because he wouldn't have the kind of performance edge that allows you to definitively impose your will within the team. I think it's a popular interpretation that marc wouldn't have won the title in 2013 if casey had been there, which... I mean, I think it's true that it would have been less likely - in that in a season with that much volatility, the more plausible championship contenders you have the less likely it is that any single one of them takes the title (same goes for instance if you add in a valentino who had not gone to ducati for two years and would have presumably been more competitive in 2013). but it's not like casey would have been the defending champion and the clear class of the field... partly due to injury, he ended up finishing in third in 2012. jorge and dani didn't win the 2013 title in part as a result of their own injuries, and who knows how casey would have fared... like sometimes it's just luck of the draw really. you can be the better rider and still not win the title, shit happens. I think for as long as a more or less healthy-ish casey stays in the sport, it would have been unlikely that marc establishes quite the same performance edge as he did over dani... but, well, if anything that would have meant he would have fought even harder out of perceived necessity to win the internal honda wars
it's the kind of thing that can make a relationship quickly deteriorate, especially with a prickly character such as casey, and it's entirely plausible that dynamic would have become strained at best and horrendously toxic at worst... sooner rather than later. and the thing is, this environment would affect marc considerably less than it would casey. again, it's the fact that he relishes the fight... he's very good at shrugging off (most) criticism and thrives in that kind of tension. the emotional fatigue that this scenario generates would be painfully lopsided, where casey offers harsh criticisms and means them and is endlessly frustrated with marc's approach, while marc... doesn't really care. at least dani also had a questionable manager who was conducting behind the scenes warfare on his behalf - casey doesn't want to play these games at all. he just wants to ride a bike, and marc is never going to allow him to live in peace as long as he's an internal threat. if casey were exposed directly to all of that from marc, I doubt he'd walk away from the experience with a particularly positive impression of him
does he walk away? I think there's a decent chance that casey would have ended up so disillusioned with the whole thing that this would have been what pushed him into retirement. if he wants to get out of that mess, let's say after two years, his options would have been pretty limited. yamaha is closed off and I'd struggle to think of a scenario in which either jorge or valentino would have been particularly interested in a direct swap (also, if you're sick of being marc's teammate, you're probably not gonna be jumping at the chance to be valentino's instead). I suppose you could go back to ducati (which he did return to as a test rider so it's not like those bridges were permanently burnt), and maybe casey could do something special even with *gestures* that version of the bike. really though... I think enough would have been enough for him. regardless of the actual balance of success between the pair of them, my guess is marc wins that war because he's happier to get nasty and because he wants it more. casey has his two to four titles... he's done. let him go fishing
#wow sorry i feel like this is a bit depressing? 'casey would retire at age 29 rather than 27' feels like a mean place to take this#maybe this is too cynical.... feel free to disagree. just personally really struggle to see anything other than disaster#i think it's a fun scenario but in all seriousness as someone who is like. generally invested in casey finding some peace in life#i'm quite glad he didn't have to go through it. good chance he gets another title but he left for a reason#'oh nice an ask i can answer quickly' i think to myself#and well i did write it quickly but i realise it's still. quite long#spec tag#babynflames#marc marquez#casey stoner#//#mm93#cs27#heretic tag#2013-15-ish vale/jorge love and peace era were already kinda looking over at the honda wars and going. what's all this then#batsplat responds#in this timeline i reckon they'd be even more pointedly cooperative. occasionally give a friendly thumbs up at the explosions next door#valentino a big believer in letting others do his dirty work for him so it'd be very [carefully neutral smile]#'EYE didn't think there was any problem with marc's move... maybe casey should consider not leaving a gap next time?' (there was no gap)#he does do that a littleeee with jorge but idk it felt less malicious... i think on a personal level he enjoyed riling casey up more#more genuine dislike for jorge imo but couldn't quite help himself with casey with the constant bickering... it's complicated#where would marc/casey have their first on-track incident? reckon cota would actually be a good shout - get it in nice and early#vibes of a good casey track but not marc cota levels good but marc's still a child... idk you need to get them in the same bit of track so#otherwise some time in the assen to brno stretch.... let's say *spins wheel* indianapolis#can u imagine if marc did the corkscrew move on CASEY... get rid of bradl (sorry dude) what does THAT podium look like what are the vibes
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