#i know filoni once mentioned a story he had in mind when they were both 6 implying they're the same age

[stairset]

I think it's funny how all these recent interviews about Bo-Katan are making her age an even bigger point of contention than it already was and so far Wookieepedia refuses to update her page, even they're like we ain't touching this shit with a 10 foot pole and I respect that.

[not-the-tie-youre-looking-for]

Something that's been bugging me for years since the Legends finale. If Zhan had been the writer for Rebels, do you think he would have had Thrawn bomb Lothal to bring Ezra out? On the one hand, from Legends Thrawn's portrayal I imagine he would without a second of hesitation. On the other, Canon Thrawn has been much more... restrained? And on a third point, there's the fact that Legends and Canon Thrawn seem like they really could be the same person just at different points of time. cnt in next

...I'm just curious if anyone else was curious if Zhan agreed with that direction taken. Which, on that note, did Zhan ever say anything about his thoughts on how Rebels handled Thrawn? Both from a writing standpoint as well as an acting and musical one (Thrawn's various leitmotifs)?

Oh man. Ohhhhhhhh maaaaan. My friend, you have asked exactly the right person this question, because not only have I wanted to talk about this multiple times before, but I also have ~receipts~. 👀

⚠️Spoiler warnings for Star Wars: Rebels, The Mandalorian, the canon Star Wars novels Thrawn, Thrawn: Alliances, Thrawn: Treason, Thrawn Ascendency: Chaos Rising, and Thrawn Ascendency: Greater Good, and the legends Star Wars novels Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command, and Outbound Flight.⚠️

Oh man. Where to begin.

Lets start with who Thrawn is, because depending on who you ask, you're gonna get different answers—whether you're strictly a Legends fan, Dave Filoni, a guy who's only seen Thrawn in Star Wars: Rebels, Timothy Zahn, or just a writer/artist fan like me.

To Timothy Zahn, the man behind our favorite chiss, Thrawn is a character that is constant in both attitude and personality throughout all of his content. In multiple interviews, ranging from Thrawn's debut in Rebels to the latest about the writing of the Ascendancy Trilogy, Zahn states that Thrawn in canon and Thrawn in Legends are indistinguishable.

And so I present the receipts:

In a 2017 interview with The Verge on writing the first canon Thrawn book Thrawn, Zahn is asked the following question and responds as such:

How do you navigate bringing back a character who already has an extensive backstory and audience expectations, with telling a new story that fits in the new continuity?

Actually, I didn’t find that to be a problem. I’d never written Thrawn in this part of the Star Wars timeline, so it was simply a matter of bringing him into the Empire and chronicling his rise through the ranks. It’s still the same character as in the 1990s books, just a decade or two younger and in a very different military and political environment.

In another interview with The Verge in 2018 (a few months after the finale of Rebels aired) about writing Thrawn: Alliances, he repeats this sentiment twice:

Thrawn feels like if it had been written before the canonization purge a couple of years ago, or if you squinted a bit, it would serve as a perfect setup for Heir to the Empire.

Oh, I don’t think you need to squint at all. I wrote him in these two books to fit in with everything else I’d done. So if someone at Lucasfilm snapped their fingers, and suddenly all of my other books were canon, and there would be no real retrofitting that would have to go in. It would all fit together.

Thrawn: Alliances feels more at home in the new canon, especially because Thrawn has been fleshed out a bit more in Rebels. Was there any adjustments for that?

Not really. I’m getting to play with more canon characters like Vader and Padmé and Anakin, but the character himself, I still see him as the same person. He’s got goals, and he won’t necessarily share them with you, but he as long as you’re going the same direction, he’s happy to cooperate and assist along the way.

...and this is referenced again in a 2020 interview with Polygon about writing Thrawn Ascendancy: Chaos Rising:

Along with Thrawn’s appearance in Rebels, Zahn would pen a new novel, Thrawn, that chronicled the character’s early days as an Imperial officer. Zahn didn’t have to change anything with the character, telling me in 2017 that “he’s like an old friend who I understand completely.” While Heir to the Empire was no longer canon, a reader could easily read Thrawn as a precursor to that classic novel. Thrawn went on to become a major presence in Rebels, and Zahn continued to explore his origins in Thrawn: Alliances and Thrawn: Treason.

The next day, an interview with IGN was published on the same subject:

Thrawn is an especially unique case because Zahn has been able to effectively continue the work he started way back in 1991 with Heir to the Empire. That novel may not be a part of official Star Wars lore any longer, but as Zahn explained, Thrawn himself is basically the same character regardless of continuity.

[....] The closest comparison between Chaos Rising and Zahn's earlier EU work is probably 2006's Outbound Flight, which is set during the Clone Wars and details the first encounter between Thrawn and the Galactic Republic (while also retroactively laying the groundwork for elements of Heir to the Empire). That novel is no longer canon, but Zahn told us he prefers to operate as if it were. He's making a concerted effort not to retread the same ground as Outbound Flight and to avoid contradicting the events of that novel as much as possible.

So yeah. In Zahn's opinion, Legends Thrawn is Canon Thrawn is Book Thrawn, and there is no difference whatsoever between Thrawns in, say, Outbound Flight, Heir to The Empire, Alliances, and Chaos Rising. I wholeheartedly disagree, but lets move on.

Now that the books are out of the way, its time for Rebels.

In July of 2016, after the trailer announcing Thrawn's canon debut aired, Dave Filoni had the following to say about Thrawn's character in regards to Timothy Zahn:

“I was pretty adamant with a couple of people saying, ‘Listen, we need to have Tim sign off on this. This is kind of a waste of time [otherwise],'” says Filoni. “We, of course, can do what we want with a character that Lucasfilm owns, but without Tim’s okay, what does it mean? That’s not going to be good. Once we had some stuff, we wanted to do what we thought was right and make the character. Then we brought him in. We had the production fully prepared. I said, ‘Look, if there’s something that Tim says that I think is really valuable, even if it changes something dynamically, we need to be ready for that and see what we can do.’ I wanted to make sure we did this right by everybody. We brought him in and we didn’t really tell him why. We just flew him up to Lucasfilm and sat him down in a theater and said, ‘Hey, we’re bringing Thrawn into the show.’ He was like, ‘Wow.’ and I said, ‘Yeah, wow. And I’m going to show him to you right now and you let me know what you think.'”

(Before we continue, keep that first highlighted sentence in mind for future reference. I'm going to come back to that later.)

Fortunately, Timothy Zahn was delighted at the show’s approach to the Empire’s imposing blue-skinned Chiss.

“We showed him some of the scenes with him,” Dave Filoni recalls. “He looked like a kid in a candy store. I think it meant a lot to him not just because it was his character, but because you have to imagine what he went through when it was announced that everything is Legends now, not Expanded Universe. I get that and I’ve always appreciated the work that goes into the Expanded Universe… For Tim, I think it was us saying, ‘No, no, no. We really like your character. We want him to be part of the real thing. The canon universe.'”

So in 2016, before we even saw Thrawn in action beyond a trailer, we were told that Zahn gave the OK, and he was chill with the way Thrawn was created in the show. In 2017, he gave a little more of the background of this process in an interview with FANgirl Blog:

The events of Thrawn dovetail closely with Rebels and shed light on some of Thrawn’s more seemingly surprising actions on the show, like when he appears to lose his temper and yell at Lieutenant Lyste. What was it like to see Thrawn come alive onscreen? Is he how you’ve pictured him in your head?

I don’t see my characters in terms of voice or appearance, but rather as personality or attitude. That said, I very much enjoyed the way the Rebels team brought him to life, in his appearance, voice, and actions.

I also appreciated the freedom I had to tweak certain incidents, such as the one you mentioned, and give additional or alternate explanations for the viewers who may have thought those were somewhat out of character for him.

He doesn't really elaborate on this, but we can assume he had SOME creative input on Thrawn's character, and he was overall pretty happy with the choices made in the show.

But then, we have this from that earlier 2017 the Verge article:

When did you learn that Dave Filoni was intending to bring Thrawn to Rebels, and did you have any input into how the character would be handled?

[...] I didn’t have any real input into how Thrawn was going to be handled, mainly because the lead time of an animated series is so long that much of season 3 had already been finished. But I trusted Dave and the team to do the character right. After all, why bring him into Rebels if you were going to drastically change him? Having seen the entire season now, I think we can agree that my trust was completely justified.

So... he didn't have "any real input," but was satisfied with it in the end? I guess? I don't know. We're getting into some contradictions now.

The last thing I've got in regards to Rebels is an interview Zahn did with the YouTube channel Star Wars Explained after the finale aired, where he responds to the following:

“So, maybe let's jump over to Rebels for a little bit. Now that it has wrapped up, how do you feel Thrawn was represented in Star Wars: Rebels?”

“They did a really good job—they not only understood the character and how to write for him, but they also understood the meta around how you defeat him. The only way to defeat Thrawn is to throw something at him he can't control, or can't anticipate. Given perfect knowledge and control, Thrawn will always find a way to win. But they understood, this is how you defeat him, these are the things we can use against him... so his portrayal in general, is very good; he's smart, he's anticipating, he's a step ahead of everybody, he's looking at clues and picking up on them, so I was very pleased with how the Rebels team handled the character."

I think these quotes answer many of your questions, so to answer your initial question: If Zhan had been the writer for Rebels, do I think he would have had Thrawn bomb Lothal to bring Ezra out?

Yes—but ONLY because at that point, the only established™️ Thrawn content was found in Legends, where Thrawn was a ruthless and calculating warlord.

However!

I do believe that if given the chance to re-write the Star Wars: Rebels finale using his now-canon novels as a solid background TODAY, Zahn would choose to not let Thrawn bombard Lothal's Capital City.

I believe this because he made one single very interesting creative choice when writing Thrawn that completely overwrote Thrawn's pre-established Rebels character: Thrawn was not responsible for the civilian deaths on Batonn—Pryce was.

And that's that on that.

A few months ago I would have ended it there, but today, Thrawn's story is no longer just contained in the novels and Rebels, but also in that of The Mandalorian.

This is where I will proudly say I have no idea what the fuck is going on. Before The Jedi aired, I was 100% sure that the next time we saw Thrawn, it would be nowhere NEAR the Empire, because Zahn was pretty adamant in the novels that Thrawn was only in the Empire to help. His. People.

So now he's apparently doing fuck-knows-what in fuck-knows-where and is STILL associated with the Seventh Fleet and Imperial Warlords???

Huh??? Despite the fact that he held no true loyalty to the Empire or to the Emperor??? It's been months and I'm still confused as fuck. Add to the fact that Zahn also doesn't know what the fuck is going on to the equation and we get a big fat question mark with one pretty clear answer that Filoni said himself that we have to keep in mind:

"We, of course, can do what we want with a character that Lucasfilm owns."

So I don't think Zahn has much control over Thrawn as we would all like to think. We can hope he gives us the crazy Thrawn and Ezra Space Adventure™️ novel all we want, but ultimately, Thrawn's fate does not rest in his hands.

If you guys have more to add please let me know!!! This is, obviously, a topic I am very passionate about, so I'd love to hear your thoughts!

[kingdomheartsloversstuff]

How a World Between Worlds is an Insult to Kanan and Ahsoka

Since two whole people wanted to see this I feel validated to write what will surely become a monstrosity but one I feel I need to write to help me process all of my feelings about this episode and Rebels end in general since my ignoring is not helping at all and I realize will never help. Also putting this under a read more because this is basically a 1400 word rant.

 To start with I have a lot of issues with the second half of season rebels but this is going to solely focus on Kanan’s death and how poorly A World Between Worlds was handled.

 There are many issues with Kanan’s death, especially in terms of what Filoni told us, how no one predicted how Rebels will end. Well let me tell you Mr. Filoni, everyone was DEMANDING Kanan die so either you are very ignorant of what fans were saying or you blatantly lied to all of us. Neither option sounds particularly good to me honestly.

 Furthermore (to me at least) Kanan’s death scene was painfully forced, why did Kanan have Hera take him to the fuel Depot? Why did Kanan make so many stops and moved so slowly while rescuing Hera? Why not hold their position and wait for Sabine and Ezra to reach them since it was a lot closer than the fuel depot. Also how on Earth did the Empire even figure out that’s where Kanan and Hera were even heading in the first place? The short answer, Filoni simply wanted Kanan dead and did whatever it took to kill him, regardless if it made any sense story wise.

 Some people may argue Kanan needed to die for various reason whether it be because FPJ’s health got in the way or to explain why he never appeared in the OT. If Filoni really wanted Kanan to be alive and out of the picture he could have easily made it happen, even with FPJ’s health. Season 4 was Rebels finale season, any new media for it will be in comics or books so FPJ wouldn’t need to voice Kanan anymore and he did need to appear in a TV they could get a new VA. It happens all the time. Furthermore, one way they could have handled this would be to have them still go to the depot but have Ezra try and pull Kanan away from the fuel tank with the force after the shuttle was pushed away and just have him be badly injured and slip into a coma he doesn’t wake up from through the end of the war. This would keep Kanan out of the picture but with still hope of him eventually waking up and getting the happy end he honestly deserves.

 Another option would be for Ezra later on in A world between world’s be tempted to yank Kanan out but instead from his side to force push Kanan out of danger and to safety. Or even to just pull him and to safety and have him stay with Ahsoka after he pushed the shuttle away with Ezra helping hold back the flames to protect him. There are probably dozens of other ways people have written saving Kanan even better but those are just a couple ideas I came up with off the top of my head.

 At the end of the day though, that wasn’t the part that made me angriest about Kanan’s death, what really pissed me off was how Filoni wrote a World Between Worlds. Bringing back Ahsoka and then having HER turn around and say Ezra could not save his master is wrong on so many levels. First off, it has Ahsoka ignoring how Ezra saved her life in the same way she is demanding Ezra not. Coming from the woman who was shown regularly to not want to give up on people, who wants to try and do her best to save as many people as possible. How could a woman like that just tell Ezra to just give up and let Kanan die? Once again the answer seems to be Filoni wanted Kanan dead and Ahsoka alive because he felt Ahsoka was far more important and worthy of living and Kanan was not. Filoni in an interview said that somehow Kanan was projecting his feelings of guilt about Ahsoka and Kanan wanted to fix that by bringing her back to life…even though he couldn’t have possibly known about what the Jedi Temple held? How could he have known that? (I’ll give you three guess’s first two don’t count). Once again this doesn’t make sense. Yoda told them to go to Malachor, she knew the risks and accepted them when she went with and stayed behind to fight Vader. She stayed behind because she refused to give up and abandon her master again yet we are supposed to believe seconds after that she would up and abandon Kanan a friend and good person? Your favoritism is showing Filoni, everyone can see it even if you pretend it’s not a thing.

 Outside of this being an absolute insult to Ahsoka ’s character, it’s also poor writing and an insult to the fans and their feelings. By bringing Ahsoka back and in the very same episode because she’s so important and deserving of it and then turning around and saying Kanan cannot live and has to die for reasons manufactured for plot in terrible and downright cruel writing. It comes across as Filoni only caring about Ahsoka and her happy ending and not caring at all about Kanan and even saying the universe demands Kanan die and Ahsoka live because Kanan does not deserve a happy ending unlike Ahsoka who does. I say this because however you look at it the force wanted Ezra to bring Ahsoka back, the force itself for some reason decide Ahsoka and only Ahsoka deserved to live because….reasons? Why the universe wants Ahsoka to live so badly outside of Filoni wanting it is beyond me but if anyone had any ideas I would love to hear them (and don’t say so she could find Ezra, Kanan could have done that as well so don’t even).

 Though I want Kanan to live and be happy with every fiber of my being, if Kanan really had to die (say because FPJ REALLY wanted him to which I kind of doubt and if so am kind of mad at him if he did) there were ways of doing that without insulting Kanan and his fans so much and it would have been a painfully simple solution, have a World Between Worlds come before Kanan’s death. Now I know what you’re thinking, why? Didn’t Ezra need to learn about selfless sacrifice and letting go by having to watch Kanan die again so he would be willing to be taken away by the Purrgils? No.

 For one thing, Ezra already learned that lesson during Legacy after discovering his parents died. Furthermore, Filoni could have made the same impact by tempting Ezra with saving Ahsoka but Kanan telling him not to (I know that’s mean but I am pissed and she’s Filoni’s favorite so unfortunately a lot of anger gets projected onto her I am so sorry Ahsoka ). Or you could still have Ezra save Ahsoka and tempt Ezra with saving his parents from dying in prison. Once again Ahsoka could keep him from saving them, claiming saving her was wrong and that he couldn’t do that again because it would quickly become a slippery slope or what made one person worthy of being saved from death over another. This would not only stay more true to Ahsoka ’s character, but it would make Ezra’s line about wishing he could see his parents again make more sense. And the scene with Palpatine would still happen and work because Ezra’s pain of Kanan’s death would still be fresh in his mind making the temptation just as strong again at the time he sees them in the Temple. Furthermore it would be less of an insult to Kanan because the temple would still be destroyed as in the episode making it not even an option when Kanan dies (something I still think in unnecessary but I want to show that there are even options to have Kanan die and it not be as uncaring and insulting).

 I know I’m rambling and this post is getting super long but I have a lot of feelings just about this episode, not the mention the entirety of the second half of season 4. In the end, I firmly believe both Kanan and Ahsoka deserved so much better then what A World Between Worlds gave them. It blatantly refuses to let any Jedi besides Ahsoka have a happy ending and find peace, and it fundamentally insults who Ahsoka is.

 I may piss off a lot of people who enjoyed that episode, but Filoni pissed me and a lot of other fans as well who deserve to have their opinions heard.

[grim-on-the-darkside]

Dave Filoni Quote about how Lucas felt about the Expanded Universe on video.

There is a quote that has been going around for a bit now, that I found the original source of. He said during an interview on “The Star Wars show”. There is a part of the quote that isn’t in it how it has been written, I can see why they left it out because you can’t quite understand it’s significance unless you actually see Filoni say it, his facial expression and his body language. The quote as written now is -

When I saw the video I noticed this small part of the quote that wasn’t included, it doesn’t change the message of it, it actually makes it more meaningful. The entire quote with the previously left out part is -

"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it.*

"So everything else was a world of fun ideas, exciting characters, great possibilities, the EU was created to explore all those things.  And I know and I fully respect peoples opinions about it that some of the material said 'the next canon part of it' <wink,wink>.... But from the filmmaking world I was brought into, the films and TV shows were it". ~ Dave Filoni speaking about working with George Lucas

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Explanation -

[The 'wink, wink' part of it, you can't fully understand it unless you see the video and see Filoni's face and his body language, what he’s indicating here was essentially saying, yeah, Lucas Licensing did try and fool people and they outright lied at times, they were concerned that if people knew that the EU was literally a separate universe and not canon, that they would be less likely to spend money on it, because 'it didn't count'. ]

This is the actual video of when Dave Filoni said the above quotes during an interview on 'The Star Wars show' [41.40 mark] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcNXPNXOv2A&t=16s

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Leland Chee and Howard Roffman,they both acknowledge that wasn't true, and have made public quoted statements in that regard. After the fact tho. Leland Chee didn’t get caught lieing to 2012. And most of his ‘atonement’ statements they came years later.

Roffman didn't keep his part of the deal with Lucas, who insisted that the only way he would allow the EU to exist at all was in a completely separate parallel universe to his, which ironically enough was Roffman's suggestion because at first Lucas said "Stop right there, there is no way I am letting anyone else say what is and isn't Star Wars', so that was how Roffman made the deal. Roffman tried to convince in subsequent talks to make it all one universe, but Lucas was adamantly against it and he adamantly refused. He gave them a seperate sandbox to play in and this is exactly why you see the things Lucas was saying and the things Leland Chee were saying were incompatible. - That's also the reason they stopped using the term 'canon' and  only used 'continuity' trying to make it out like they meant the same thing, when they didn't. This was their duplicity, not George Lucas, Lucas was always honest about whenever he was asked in interviews. Separate universes.

Roffman comes totally clean about it in an 2017 interview about the whole thing. Which I have mentioned in two of my previous posts and promosed to share. Now is a good time to do that as it will help make sense of this part of what Filoni said.

Why did Lucas allow to go on than? Fair question. 3 reasons.

One, he told them from the get go he didn’t want to have to get involved all the time, he had his own projects and stories to work on, and he didn’t want to have to keep looking over their shoulders.

Two - He knew he couldn’t keep up with the fans hunger for new Star Wars and he thought this would keep them occupied in between his movies, bare in mind, he didn’t have any clue how big it would actually get. No one was expecting how good it would end up doing in terms of making money.

Which segways very nicely into the Third and final reason.

Money.

Lucas wasn’t about to deal with their duplicity by hurting himself on the process. He was making so much money off it, and he didn’t write a word of it, you can expect anyone to be that ‘upstanding’ so to speak. So he decided he’d handle it the same way they were, by making public statements, and than let them have to deal with the fallout because Lucas was being honest anyways, it was them who were doing wrong.

"And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

~ George Lucas, Flannelled One, 2008

https://ibb.co/dtnYHbx

[Quotes like this were problematic, because if as they were saying “It was one universe” “One canon”, than how the hell could Lucas say The Emperor doesn’t get cloned and doesn’t get married??” heh]

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”The novels and comic books are other authors' interpretations of my creation.  Sometimes, I tell them what they can and cant do, but I just don't have the time to read them all. They're not my vision of what Star Wars is.”

- George Lucas 2004

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"I like to refer to the Interview with Lucas in the Special Editions.When asked about the novels and what not, he simply says:

”Those are another author's interpretation of what I've created, and not to be taken seriously, as far as what is really going on in the Star Wars world.”

~ George Lucas

[These are statements being made in response to live interviewers questions, so as you can see, this is how he dealt with it and let them deal with the fall out.]

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Back to the Filoni quote discussion -

Roffman admits later on that it was separate universes, Lucas did not consider the EU canon ever. Lucas just wasn't interested in it, he was only interested in his Star Wars. That's why there was so many retcons. It was all Lucas.

[I’ll be sharing the quotes from Roffman’s 2017 interview following this. This just helps set it up and bring it all together]

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Not suggesting Lucas did anything wrong, he didn’t, he made it clear from the get go that was the only way he would allow it. It also makes some of the other Quotes from Lucas even more understandable than they already were.

Just for context and reminders -

STARLOG: "The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?"

"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world.... When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.

“There are two worlds here,” explained Lucas. “There’s my world, which is the movies, and there’s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe – the licensing world of the books, games and comics.”

[The things that happened in the Expanded Universe happened in the Expanded Universe universe, but they didn't happen in George Lucas' universe.The things that happened in George Lucas universe, They all happened in the Expanded Universe' universe. That was part of the deal, they had to have all of his stuff happen there exactly the same. If that conflicted with things they did before or after, didn't matter, they had to change anything that contradicted anything he did. [Retcons].]

--------------------------

"Q: What do you think of the Expanded Universe of books?

A: "The books are in a different universe. I've not read any of them, and I told them when they started writing I wouldn't read any of them and I blocked out certain periods [they couldn't touch where the real story happens]."

- George Lucas 2003

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"The question selected from The Furry Conflict poll was: How much does the Expanded Universe influence the movies?

As I asked him, Lucas leaned back a moment and said to me “Very little.” When he first had agreed to let people write Expanded Universe books, he had said “I’m not gonna read ‘em” and it was a “different universe” and that he wanted to keep away from the time period of his saga. He jokingly complained, however, that now when he writes a script he has to look through an encyclopedia to make sure that a name he comes up with doesn’t come too close to something in the EU.He later commented that the future of Star Wars may lie in other venues outside of feature film."

- "Marc Xavier", November 2003, "The Furry Conflict and the Great ‘Beard‘ of the Galaxy"

 (report based on a Q&A session with George Lucas which occurred at USC on 11-19-03)

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"Howard Roffman [President of Lucas Licensing], He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead."

- George Lucas 2008

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When Lucas use the term “We decided”, “we would have two universes”, he was referring to himself and Roffman and the deal with Roffman mentioned here in this above quote.

The Expanded Universe was Howard Roffman’s idea, he brought the idea to Lucas. He was in charge of it the entire time Lucas owned Star Wars.

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Now it makes why Lucas hated Mara Jade so much understandable. Lucas wasn’t involved in their stories. He didn’t approve concepts, he didn’t read the books, he didn’t deal with the book people personally, he had a liaison group.

“Well in George, George couldn’t stand Mara Jade, well he just couldn’t stand, couldn’t deal and they went out and got some sort of person who looked like she’d stepped out of a Cosmopolitan to be the model Mara and he just thought the whole thing was so not Star Wars and not his vision of Star Wars and once, I forget, I think Sue Rostoni between the novels told me or anyway told me they were killing off Mara Jade and I said ‘Do I get to tell George?'”

– J.W. Rinzler, Lucas Licensing and Author

http://starwarshub.net/2019/02/01/according-to-author-j-w-rinzler-george-lucas-couldnt-stand-the-character-of-mara-jade/

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As far as I know, George Lucas himself is not involved. He has a liaison group that deals with the book people, the game people, etc. They do the day-to-day work. Occasionally, he will be asked a question and will give an answer."

~ Timothy Zahn

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"George knows more about Star Wars than we do. He doesn't see the Expanded Universe as ”his” Star Wars, but as ”ours.” I think this has been mentioned previously, maybe in other places, but it's not new info, as far as I remember."

~ Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor),2004

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[This was when Leland Chee got caught lieing during a live interview from an Audience member question in 2012 ]

But just to give the context of how widespread this deceit and outright lieing had gotten to let’s look at the kinds of things Leland Chee had been saying for years first, and this is just the tip of the iceberg -

"The thing about Star Wars is that there's One universe..." ~ Leland Chee 2008

--

"Holocronkeeper does not support the notion of SW parallel universes."

~ Leland Chee 2009

--

"Everything outside the films was collectively known as the Expanded Universe, serving as an extension of the same universe in the films."

~ Leland Chee 2012

[Even though Lucas had said in 2011, that he makes no distinction between the movies and the Clone Wars series.]

"This is Star Wars, and I don't make a distinction between [The Clone Wars] series and the films."~ George Lucas, SciFiNow, October 2011

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"Unlike other franchises that reboot with almost every incarnation, Star Wars has proven itself to be a singular universe."

~ Leland Chee 2012

[Bare in mind that Lucas ruled by decree and anything he said was instantly canonical anything that might contradict it, was nulled and voided on the spot, also, note the year on these last two quotes, 2012]

Now watch this...

Q “Hi Mr Chee! I’ve got a question about continuity – are all the various different media of Star Wars (the films, TCW, the video games, the EU) intended to form a single universe, or is the EU intended as a parallel, alternate universe (like, for example, the different continuities between the various Batman comics and films)? I realise that fans tend to each have their own personal preferences, but I was wondering what the official Lucasfilm company policy regarding this was? Many thanks!”

"The dual universe question comes up often. I know George Lucas has mentioned it being two universes , but that’s not how I see it. His vision is definitely not beholden to ours, but ours is definitely beholden to his."

~ Leland Chee 2012

Same year, 2012. The last quote above he made one month before getting caught and admitting that Lucas said it was two universes.

It gets worse.

Knowing full well that Lucas had said it was two universes, Leland Chee had said this -

"And then there's the very top level of canon, the inviolable, infallible level of Truth, marked GWL—George Walton Lucas. It's the divine word of the Creator who stands outside his universe and is not subject to the rules that govern it."

~ Leland Chee, 2008

[Actually, Leland was standing outside of his Universe.]

and this

"George's view of the universe is his view," Chee says with a slightly grudging tone. "He's not beholden to what's gone before."

~ Leland Chee 2008

grudging means he was pissed and he resented it.

[Lucas said in 2005 it was two universes in a magazine interview. Wasn’t the only time he said it either]

You wanna see this get even worse?

*"The G/C/S-level canon stuff is a construct specifically for the Holocron. Non-Holocron users would have no idea what this stuff even means* and I would say most of the people who use the Holocron don't use the field, instead looking specifically to the source of the material. Individual entries are not broken down by canon level."

~ Leland Chee 2005

"...applies only to the Holocron, but is not the same as their standing in LFL's canon hierarchy.“

---

“Understand, that the Holocron's primary purpose is to keep track of Star Wars continuity for Lucas Licensing, and to some degree Lucas Online. To my knowledge, it is only rarely used for production purposes.“

~ Leland Chee

[What this means is that whole 'canon tier' he made up, that wasn't policy that was a filing system protocol for the Holocron like the Dewy Decimal system. It had no baring on actual canon or anything outside of his office.]

~ Leland Chee

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Wanna see it get even worse?

"Star Wars continuity, even EU continuity, does not rest on my shoulders.  Our licensees submit product directly to either our editors or our product development managers. The Holocron serves as a tool for them to check any issues regarding continuity,  and after that, if the editors or developers have any questions, they pass it along to me to check for continuity. At the same time, I am constantly on the lookout to make sure that any new continuity being created gets entered in the Holocron. With regard to the the films and The Clone Wars, I am not involved in continuity approvals* though I have often been asked to provide reference material."

~ Leland Chee

[And they would have us believe that George Lucas let them do all of this on their own, and he had no say in any of it. He’s letting them say what is canon carte’ blanche’ They did say that, wanna see what Leland also said about declaring things canon?

Lucas is quoted as saying they don’t follow his guidelines.

-

This one’s the dozy.

As far as LucasBooks and Lucas Licensing are concerned, of course it is. LucasBooks and Lucas Licensing hold sway over the content and storylines of the Expanded Universe, and thus have every right to declare a canon of those materials. Whether this internal declaration is subscribed to by parent company LFL or Lucas himself is another matter, one which, though interesting, is outside the scope of this Holocron-oriented thread.

~ Leland Chee 2004

----

This is exactly what Dave Filoni is referring to. Them declaring certain things canon and writting on some [it wasn’t all, just to be fair, just some] EU products that their story is a canon continuation, and they were doing so without permission from parent company and George Lucas.

It get’s worse. heh

Turns out, Mr. Leland Chee, he never met George Lucas, he never spoke to George Lucas, not even on the telephone, not even by mail. Complete and total strangers.

"I didn't have any direct contact with George about Star Wars. - I would see some notes based on the interviews or the meetings. But I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity."

~  Leland Chee 2018

“I did not have direct contact with George about Star Wars continuity. Dave Filoni, who worked on Clone Wars, definitely did. So for me, the spirit of George’s work is what’s in the films, and it doesn’t go too far beyond that.” ~ Leland Chee 2018

---

Only took him about 4 or 5 years to fully come clean

"What George did with the films and The Clone Wars was pretty much *his universe ,” Chee said. “He didn’t really have that much concern for what we were doing in the books and games. So the Expanded Universe was very much separate."

~ Leland Chee, 2017 - SYFY WIRE

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“Lucas’ canon – and when I say ‘his canon’, I’m talking about what he was doing in the films and what he was doing inThe Clone Wars* – was hugely important. But what we were doing in *the books really wasn’t on his radar.”

~ Leland Chee, 2018

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And to top it all off, he said

"Dave Filoni is better equipped to relay Lucas’ true feelings about the EU." ~ Leland Chee

So every single on of those things he said about it being ‘One Universe’, One Continuity’, ‘A singular universe’, ‘same universe as the films’, ‘what is canon’, what’s continuity’, all of it, he did so without having a clue with how George Lucas felt.

But wait....there’s even a problem with that.....when he said Dave Filoni is the one to relay about Lucas’ true feelings, which is is in part true, it doesn’t take into account the fact that he did know Lucas said it was two universes.

He says G-Canon -

G-canon was George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public).

Given the fact that he is the only who made that Tier thingy  for the Holocron, I’m kinda guessing he knew that statements from Lucas were canonical.

He heard Lucas say it was two universes, should we really assume all the other quotes from Lucas he never heard them?

Not only did Leland Chee lie, he knew full well what George Lucas was saying and it’s significance and it’s canonicity.

He’s not only a liar, he’s literally a canon breaker.

Leland Chee said Dave Filoni could tell us Lucas true feelings on the EU.

Which brings us right back to where this post started.

"There's this notion that everything changed when everything became Legends. And I can see why people think that. But, you know, having worked with George I can tell you that it was always very clear -- and he made it very clear -- that the films and the TV shows were the only things that he considered Canon. That was it.*"So everything else was a world of fun ideas, exciting characters, great possibilities, the EU was created to explore all those things.And I know and I fully respect peoples opinions about it that some of the material said 'the next canon part of it' <wink,wink>.... But from the filmmaking world I was brought into, *the films and TV shows were it".* ~ Dave Filoni speaking about working with George Lucas

He was talking about Leland Chee and Howard Roffman, They both knew the truth of it. They had co-workers who wouldn’t agree with them on what they were saying because they refused to lie about George Lucas.

"Within the issue of Starlog magazine with the War of the Worlds cover is an interview article with George Lucas. He stated something which he had said before, which is that he doesn't follow the SW EU, he doesn't read the books or comics. He also said that when they started doing all this (which is allowing other storytellers to tell their own SW tales), he had decreed that the Star Wars Universe would be split into two just like Star Trek (I don't know nuts about Star Trek, so don't ask me about that), one would be his own universe (the six episode movie saga), the other would be a whole other universe (the Expanded Universe). He continued to say that the EU tries as much as possible to tie in to his own universe, but sometimes they move into a whole other line of their own."

~ Confirmed by Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing Publishing, 2005

--

"Does the main storyline for books and comics go through Lucas to make sure it isn't going to conflict with future movies?

No. George doesn't give us much information about his future movies until he's making them. In general, George does not take the EU into account when he's making his movies.”

~ Sue Rostoni, LucasBooks/LL Managing Editor, 2003

--

"I know that GL doens't create the storys and concepts for the SW novels, but does anyone know if he approves overall story ideas?

"George doesn't see the overall story ideas or concepts. If there is a sensitive area, or if we are developing backstory for a character he's created or mentioned in an interview, we can query him to get more information, his approval, or whatever. And yes, we always query him if we're doing something drastic to a film character. I believe he does read the concepts for the games though."

- Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), Jun 2004

---

"The books have to follow the same continuity the films do, as they are an integral part of the overall story of Star Wars that Lucasfilm LTD. recognizes as a legitimate continuation of the films, right?

Yes, the books follow the continuity of the films as best we can taking into account that George follows his own continuity, and rightly so. He's the filmmaker.

As far as ”legitimate continuation of the films” -- If George had continued making SW films past Return of the Jedi, I don't think they would have reflected what the SW authors have written.

[This proved to be true. Lucas wrote his own Sequel Trilogy in 2011. The EU did not exist in his sequel trilogy. He was already in pre-production for the movies himself before he sold to Disney.

"Fast forward to 2012, when we hear George is looking to make SW movies again, I thought 'I wonder what next Mon Calamari's gonna be.' And it turns out, the Mon Calamari this time was huge swaths of the EU. There was no Jacen, no Jaina. No new Jedi Order. Chewie lived. Not suprising, but there it was.    

~ Pablo Hidalgo, 2016, speaking on Lucas' ST treatments he wrote in 2011 https://ibb.co/nmjWcBM

He said it was not suprising because he had know forever already that it was two seperate universes and Lucas did not consider the EU canon ever.

"In the old days, George Lucas saw his universe as separate from publishing [EU]. He wasn't at all interested in connecting."

~ Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group] 2016 http://i.imgur.com/6ZOkAau.png

"He [Lucas] only considers his movies and TV projects as his universe, and told the Clone Wars writers to only worry about those."

-Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]

https://i.redd.it/3fpbkocr43q01.png

[We know a lot about Lucas Sequel Trilogynow. Links to that at bottom.]

Sue R Quote continued...

The books, comics, etc., are a ”legitimate continuation” of the Star Wars saga as we [Lucas Licensing] define it. I'm not certain of the context of your question -- somehow I feel like I'm walking into something here...."

- Sue Rostoni, Lucas Licensing (LLP Managing Editor), Jan 2005

----

[At first Sue Rostoni was lead to believe what Chee and Roffman were saying was the case, but she found out that that wasn’t true, and she had met Lucas and she had been working at Lucas Licensing longer than anyone, and she refused to take part in any duplicity especially when it came to Lucas himself. She was a real class act and I have a ton of respect her. That couldn’t have been easy for her. She retired in 2011]

--------------------

So there we have it. So many things going on behind the scenes, so much misinformation on the internet, so many people lieing as it suits their personal wants and narratives.

This is about one thing for me and one thing only. Honoring the gift George Lucas gave us all, Star Wars.

I want his legend and legacy remembered truthfully and for what it really was.

His words matter. When it comes to Star Wars Lucas is God.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

George Lucas’ Episode VII - https://medium.com/@Oozer3993/george-lucas-episode-vii-c272563cc3ba

George Lucas' Ideas for His Own Star Wars Sequel Trilogy - https://io9.gizmodo.com/george-lucas-ideas-for-his-own-star-wars-sequel-trilogy-1826798496

STAR WARS: The Original Plans for the Sequel Trilogy - YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1dM9qFe4p0

https://ibb.co/jvph85c

[mrmichaelchadler]

A Sneak Peek at The Mandalorian from Star Wars Celebration Chicago

The second big event at Star Wars Celebration Chicago after the Episode IX reveal on Friday was without a doubt to be the panel presentation for “The Mandalorian” on Sunday morning. The series will premiere on November 12th when the Disney+ streaming platform goes live. It’s the first live-action Star Wars television series, something that has been mentioned on and off for decades. The fact that the show revolves around a mysterious character with a recognizable fan-favorite look is certainly increases the growing curiosity around the project.

Around the time the prequels came out, George Lucas mentioned how he envisioned Star Wars branching out into an episodic television format, with both an animated and live-action series. The animated series happened in 2008 with the hugely successful “Clone Wars” (it ran six seasons and will be continuing this fall on Disney+) from producer Dave Filoni and now we have "The Mandalorian," a series created by writer/executive producer Jon Favreau with help from Filoni and some intriguing directors such as Bryce Dallas Howard, Deborah Chow ("Jessica Jones"), Rick Famuyiwa ("Dope") and Taika Waititi. 

The anticipation for the event was obvious as fans trickled into the WinTrust Arena from the cold and rainy streets of Chicago (an atmosphere that felt ironically like Kamino, the rain-soaked planet from “Attack of the Clones” and would later feel like the snow-swept planet Hoth from "Empire Strikes Back," but that's the Windy City) as DJ Elliot once again threw down some pulse-pounding beats to get the audience hyped. After three days of coverage, I wasn't the only one fatigued, yet master crowd carouser Mark Daniel was back cruising up and down the aisles of the arena floor, interacting with fans and giving away Star Wars swag. He was then followed by actor and veteran host, Warwick Davis ("Return of the Jedi", "Solo: A Star Wars Story"), who brought people up on stage to play fun Star Wars games as the clock counted down to the panel's start time. 

Both Daniel and Davis pointed to a specific section of fans on the main floor, all of whom wore their own custom-made Mandalorian armor to the event. They could be seen standing up and raising their helmets in the air, as if performing bounty hunter zumba. Apparently most, if not all of them, are part of a non-profit group called The Mandalorian Mercs. I couldn't make out what exactly their group function is, but it was clear that unity and diversity was their emphasis, along with a love for the specific Mandalorian look, originated by bounty hunter Boba Fett, who become a fan-favorite despite having zero lines when Darth Vader hired him in "The Empire Strikes Back".

When the lights went down, the crowd went nuts, and out came the trio chiefly responsible for the new show, producer Kathleen Kennedy, Favreau and Filoni. Kennedy thanked everyone for the overall reception at Celebration this year, and how excited she was for this particular panel. She then handed over the presentation to Favreau and Filoni, both of whom went on to share how they met long ago at Skywalker Ranch, where Favreau was mixing "Iron Man" and Filoni was working on "The Clone Wars". Filoni shared how he was the first person to see the final cut of "Iron Man". The two hit it off and eventually came together on this project as executive producers, with Favreau writing and Filoni directing a couple of episodes. 

They explain that "The Mandalorian" is set approximately three years after the fall of the Empire in "Return of the Jedi" and before the ascension of the First Order in "The Force Awakens", when small factions of the Empire remain and chaos has erupted after the celebration of the rebellion. This could be the first time a Star Wasrs storyline exists outside the Skywalker saga, which is certainly something fans have been hoping for. 

The executive producers then brought out three of the stars of the new show, Pedro Pascal, Gina Carano and Carl Weathers, all of whom received a rousing ovation. Favreau had each actor introduce what their roles are as brand new images of their characters appeared above them, both concept work and stills from "The Mandalorian". Pascal is the titular lone gunfighter who resides in the outer reaches of the galaxy. "He's got a lot of Clint Eastwood in him," Pascal explains, "Some may say he has questionable moral character, which is in line with some of our best westerns." This makes sense considering Favreau and Filoni described how the overall vibe of the show was heavily influenced by old westerns and samurai films, both of which served as inspiration for Lucas as well. 

Carano expressed her excitement at the crowd's reception, stating, "I get to be part of a whole other family" in her role as Kara Dune, an ex-rebel shocktrooper who she describes as "a bit of a loner, which isn't a far stretch - and I'm having a bit of trouble reintegrating into society". When an exuberant bearded Carl Weathers came out, he shouted, "I want you! I want you!" (a line associated with his iconic Apollo Creed character from the "Rocky" franchise) out to the audience. Weathers then sat down and shared how he's playing the head of a guild of bounty hunters who's looking for someone to deliver a valuable product to a special client. Greef chooses the Mandalorian because "The Mando does what needs to be done," the veteran actor stated with a sly grin.

At this time during the event, Favreau admitted it was time to show footage and what we were about to see would be blacked out for livestream viewers at home (I found out later it was even omitted from the two overflow stages this was being broadcast at the McCormick Place). The first thing we see is the Mandalorian meeting Greef at a cantina bar familiar to the Star Wars universe, presumably filled with nefarious types. The Mandalorian watches as Greef shuffles through curious pucks which represent bounties. When The Mandalorian indicates he's looking for something with a higher bounty, Greef points out that he has a job in mind, but he'd have to send him off to get further instructions from someone with deeper pockets. 

We then follow the Mandalorian through a lively marketplace where a caged Salacious Crumb-type creature looks on in horror as one of his kind has turned into rotisserie. The Mandalorian makes his way to the exterior of his destination where a gatekeeper droid (similar to the kind that questioned Threepio outside of Jabba's palace in "Jedi") scans a card he holds up. This opens the entrance and the gunslinger is led inside by a gonk droid. Another door opens and then the Mandalorian is face-to-face with a room full of four stormtroopers who stand alongside a character played by none other than Werner Herzog. 

As this sketchy, self-described pragmatic character tells the Mandalorian about a job he has, they are interrupted by an anxious doctor (Omid Obtahi) who enters from a side door and proceeds to disclose too much information. The situation turns into a sudden standoff, in which all the troopers point their blasters at the Mandalorian. A trooper emphasizes that he's outnumbered, to which The Mandalorian answers, "I like those odds". 

The situation is calmed and the discussion of the job reconvenes, as Herzog calmly explains that the target can be delivered alive or dead, much to the doctor's chagrin. We don't find out who the target is, but we see Herzog unveil a rectangular piece of iron he refers to as a Beskar as downpayment. This footage wraps with the Mandalorian cautiously walking out with his downpayment, off to fulfill his assignment no doubt. 

The best part, besides seeing Herzog in the Star Wars universe, is how we never see Pascal's face...that recognizable bucket helmet stays on his head the entire time. In fact, it stays on throughout every bit of footage we see. That's quite reassuring considering there's typically a tendency to show an actor's face whenever they're playing a character wearing a mask or helmet. Thankfully, there is clearly an effort to maintain the mystery and anonymity of the character. 

This sequence was followed by a montage of what to expect from "The Mandalorian," where we catch glimpses of the various characters, aliens, vehicles and locations we can expect to see on the show. The audience cheered as they recognized Giancarlo Esposito ("Breaking Bad") in a supporting role as what looks like an Imperial character who leads a group of Death Troopers and even flies a TIE fighter. I do believe I also noticed Nick Nolte in the background, knowing he's also part of the cast.  

Of course, the crowd went absolutely crazy with this footage and with good reason. It looks exciting, cool and mysterious, and unlike anything we've seen before, despite being set in the Star Wars universe. The production values carry the gritty, lived-in look we've come to expect from the kind of morally questionable and nefarious characters that inhabit this section of the galaxy. Favreau and Filoni explained how viewers will see new planets, vehicles (the Mandalorian's gunship is called the Razorcrest) and species as they intend to include elements from the original trilogy, prequel trilogy, along with aspects from the "Clone Wars" and "Rebels" television series, as well as bits from the Expanded Universe. Favreau also shared some informative behind-the-scenes footage (which he said was okay for viewers to record) and added that this was the first time a Star Wars production was shot in Los Angeles, using cutting edge technology while keeping the practical and handmade effects the original movies were known for. 

They also shared how the 501st Legion got involved in the production in order to fill out episodes with authentic looking stormtroopers. When a call went out for stormtroopers, this international fan-based organization known for their detailed hand-crafted costumes volunteered their time as glorified extras during filming. Favreau shared how none of the volunteers were initially told what they were being asked to do. Filoni laughed, stating how members thought the request was for the kind of gatherings and functions they're typically called to participate in. Both of them shared how impressed they were with the 501st, as Carano adding how legit they are and Weathers stating how hard the men and women worked on set. 

I'm sure there will be skepticism surrounding a live-acton Star Wars television show, but being there and witnessing that first footage, I was and remain sold. A Star Wars space western, inspired by Sergio Leone and Akira Kurosawa? Sign me up. 

from All Content http://bit.ly/2GlhL82