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#i think in the beginning maybe but i think by s13 she probably just thinks of the doctor as aroace
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Yaz is cool as fuck and people don’t appreciate her enough, a very long ramble
TLDR because this is so long: yaz is really cool and a compelling character and not enough people talk about how good of a character she is, both with and without the doctor, enough
In the first episode we learn as soon as we meet her that yaz wants to help people. She is tired of getting parking disputes and wants something more serious, and after meeting the doctor immediately starts helping her even if she isn’t supposed to be, and later it’s implied (I don’t think it was ever confirmed?) that she originally became a cop because one helped her when she had ran away/was suicidal, maybe?
Throughout season 11 we see her be the most empathetic/caring (episode 3 with the racism Ryan specially was facing, episode 6 with her grandma’s first husband, episode 7 with dan from kerblam, 8 with the kid who’s grandma was killed for “being a witch”, 9 with the blind kid), and is also very loyal almost immediately (“more of the universe.. more time with you!” “No. I’m with you, whatever happens” and more I’m forgetting)
She also has a very similar sense of justice to the doctor, practically immediately and comes to share her view on a lot of topics (she was hesitant to take the gun in TPOTD, she wrote wwtdd(which is adorable btw) on her palm, she defended Tesla, stands up to the master, once again more I’m forgetting probably)- hell, when seperated from the doctor without instructions/for a long time she takes 13s place as leader
Circling back to loyalty: she spent 10 months obsessively trying to find the doctor, she slept in the second tardis, she probably (I think it’s implied?) neglected her own health, social life, and job (if she still had one at this point) just to obsessively try and figure out how that tardis worked, to figure out how to get back to the doctor
And that was after she walked into a portal to an alien planet, not caring about danger because it’s what the doctor would do if it were one of them (she was already half way there by the time Graham finished asking who was going first, walking quickly and had a very determined look on her face. I really do believe if it had come down to facing the master or cybermen she would’ve to ensure 13s safety), which btw, is one of my favorite scenes in the show
And then s13. Gods I think I could talk about yaz in season 13 and those last 3 specials for days. A) Dan is more her companion than docs, let’s be very clear- they spent 3 years trapped in an unfamiliar time together with yaz acting as the leader (see above about her taking on the Doctor’s role when the doctor isn’t there to)
She handles 13’s outbursts and venom astonishingly well through the whole series but esp in s13, when she is double guessing her identity and even more unwilling to share than before, like it’s downright elegant that yaz is able to ignore 13s jabs sometimes, cuz personally I would’ve thrown hands. Although she doesn’t let the doctor walk over her, she doesn’t just accept the bullshit, she argues with the doctor quite a bit (telling her she is fully at fault for the situation at the beginning of s13 ep 1, telling her to stop leaving them all the time, shoving her when she shows back up after the 10 months)
As mentioned before the “what would the doctor do” being written on her hand is a really good touch and it does well to show just how much yaz looks up to 13 and how much she loves her (a very much amount, like infinitely)
This is getting very long so I’ll try to wrap it up somewhat quickly. Anyway, I really love yaz’s coming out scene (although I detest Dan outing her), it feels very natural and is filled with a lot of great emotions that we don’t see her have very much- like, she cries! Yaz, while shown having emotions, isn’t shown sad very often (which considering she was depressed as a younger teen and might still be, could just be her repressing those emotions) and is shown as scared much less, it’s nice to see those emotions on display
Speaking of emotions on display: “stop leaving us” is one of my favorite scenes/lines. Getting to see just how anxious yaz gets when the doc leaves, just how much she hates being separated from her, is a really nice insight to how she thinks- the doctor has already left her twice before (neither times were her fault, though) so who’s to say it won’t happen again? Easier to stay by 13 than to be crushed by her disappearing without warning
(Also side note but after that the two don’t separate much/if at all, showing that the doc did genuinely listen to her)
I’ve heard people say that they didn’t enjoy Legend of the sea devils that much but personally I love it- both because holy shit they’re so gay, but also because it again demonstrates that yaz is genuinely so smart and capable and there’s really no wonder 13 fell for her so hard (because she did. 13 fell so hard) I also like that this episode shows that the two play off each other and trust each other a lot, even if they aren’t always in sync
And finally onto the power of the doctor! Yaz’s best episode by far and my favorite of the entire series!
Yaz. Is. So. Fucking. Amazing. In this episode. She really shines so much which is saying a lot because she usually shines anyway. She looks so ready to punch the master if only he’d give her a reason, ready to shoot him (maybe not fatally… maybe) if he threatens the doctors or her own safety
She openly defies him, she leaves him stranded on a planet and if not for the plan she might’ve never came back for him, she flies the tardis! All on her own! We can assume that the doctor helped teach her but how much of that knowledge is from those 10 months? (I like to think that the first time yaz helped fly it was completely by accident)
Do the doctor holograms share knowledge? Cuz if not, that implies that she figured out it can change interface on her own and used it in their/her plan.
She saves the doctor! Multiple times! Runs out towards a fucking laser to make sure she’s safe (another favorite scene), she flies everyone home while the doc rests and recovers, she is just so cool in this episode!!
And honestly, I hate her ending. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fantastic that she survived, really truly fantastic, if they had killed yaz I’d have balled my eyes out and sworn doctor who off for a second time, but her ending? No.
I do not think she should’ve stayed with the doc, I believe she loved (romantically, she’d love every doctor platonically but) 13 only, she’d be traveling the stars with 14 or 15 but I think over time she would’ve slid into that grief, that the doctor is still there but hers isn’t. But just having to go back to normal life? Go back to her family and job and life? That’s bullshit
Graham and Ryan got the psychic papers, yaz could’ve too (which btw that’d make a fun spin off I think), or she could’ve gotten the doctors coat (which would’ve been the cutest thing ever), or even her sonic! (Least likely) but- nothing? Nothing? No!!
She and 13 should be allowed to be immortal space wives together (with river, maybe) and nothing bad should ever happen to them
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spicyicymeloncat · 2 years
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One thing I need the fandom to drop when it comes to Wu is them thinking he never talks about the ninja’s parents to them. It was never his information to disclose to Jay that he was adopted if he was even aware of that, it was up to Ed and Edna. If Jay’s mom had to make the tough decision of leaving her child behind and was never seen or heard from again despite being married to a movie star I don’t think she would’ve ran up the mountain to tell the Bros what just happened. I’m 75% sure he hardly even knew Dr. Julien or that Zane was a robot (poor guy probably couldn’t comprehend that robots could exist and be so human). Somewhere in the comics he holds a baby Cole and he was good friends with Lilly. Cole would’ve been surprised or confused when in S13 Wu says she never had a necklace like, “What do you mean? You knew my mother?” I feel at some point Cole either realizes he knows Wu from his childhood or Wu’s cryptically like “I remember you used to fight your parents on bedtimes constantly” and giggles
(Disclaimer: this is all my opinion, if anyone reading this doesn’t like Wu or disagrees with me ur valid to do so. Love u all really)
Yeah I’ve had a bit of time to think over the “Wu didn’t tell the ninja about their parents” and my blanket statement response would just be Wu couldn’t have told the ninja about their parents before their parents have even been conceptualised as characters.
The reason the ninja are continuously interesting for this many seasons is partially because their backstories weren’t told right at the beginning and they have room to develop and grow. Their parents characters are only introduced when it’s relevant to the plot, and are only canonically conceptualised right up to the season they get released. Which does make sense considering how many times the show was going to end. There’s no point planning seasons ahead of time if you aren’t sure those seasons will exist, otherwise you end up with unfinished and unsatisfying story arcs. The price of this is that the retcons contradict either Wu’s integrity or knowledge. Or do they?
Yeah I agree 100% with you on Jay’s mother. Wu probably doesn’t even know what happened to her, and considering what Nya said in s5, that elemental powers can skip generations, Wu may not have been sure Jay was her child. But even if he was, if Ed and Edna hadn’t told Jay, then it’s not really up to Wu, or at least he shouldn’t be held accountable more than Ed and Edna.
With Cole, I don’t think Wu really withheld any information about Lilly. I haven’t seen anyone debate this yet so maybe Cole doesn’t apply lol, but yeah I think Wu has been transparent about her probably. I mean considering how Wu and Cole were close, and Cole told Wu about her death as seen in s8/9 in his flashback. I haven’t seen the comics so idk how true this is (I don’t really consider the comics truly canon anyways) but I sometimes hc that Lilly kept her identity as master of earth from her family as sort of a way of dividing her work and home life, which is why Cole’s dad was originally against him being a ninja.
I also think that Wu knew Dr Julien (not very well) but didn’t know he died or got kidnapped afterwards and when he discovered Zane as a loner, and realised he didn’t remember, Wu told him that Zane had a family and that they’d look for him (which was a fruitless search bc dr Julien was at a lighthouse at sea) BECAUSE LOOK
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EPISODE 2 of Ninjago and this is my favourite scene ever look look lok at this
…anyways. I think this argument is strongest with Kai and Nya’s parents. In my personal opinion I still think maybe they didn’t want Wu to tell them due to them feeling as if their parents abandoned them on purpose? Idk that’s just a theory based on how quick Kai was to turn on his dad and how much beef Nya had with her mum. Although I still think that Wu offscreen told the siblings what he knew if they asked, or that he’d make off hand comments about how cool their parents were (they were friends). Or maybe he didn’t out of fear of pressuring them. I’d feel like he’d relate considering his own father. Maybe that’s the whole reason why he didn’t tell Nya about her water powers. Because she was doing so well as a samurai and didn’t want her to live through that pressure.
Idk I think there are so many cool options when trying to make sense of Wu that I feel like it’s a shame no one sees that potential. On that note, thanks anon now I have generated more ideas about Wu and I really want to make something out of them now :P
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How do you think Sara’s sleeping patterns changed when she got together with Grissom, during the divorce, and now. It always made me sad in the Forget Me Not episode when she said she hadn’t been sleeping very well. I wonder if that meant that when she was with Grissom (physically and emotionally when they were on separate continents) she was sleeping better than she ever had. Thoughts?
hi, anon!
it's certainly my headcanon that her sleeping patterns improve when she's with grissom. i've always imagined that when they first start actually sleep-sleeping together (as in "slumbering in the same bed") she is amazed to discover how deeply and well she sleeps. she's probably astounded by how quickly she falls asleep wrapped up in his arms and how easy it is to stay asleep—for hours!—as long as he's right there next to her.
and on the exceedingly rare occasions that she maybe does have a bad dream or gets freaked out by a noise or something, she just nestles into him and instantly feel safe.
honestly, i think that's a big part of the reason why she generally seems so well between s5 and s7 when they're together: because she is finally, for the first time in her entire life, actually getting the right amount of deep, uninterrupted, restorative, healthy sleep that she needs.
i also think that's a big part of why her mental health takes a nosedive during s8, once she starts working swing shift: because between her ptsd and the fact that she and grissom are keeping different hours (and therefore can't be asleep at the same times), her sleep schedule falls to shit again.
just not having him in the bed with her at a time when she's already kind of fragile really does a number on her overall.
as for how she fares when they're living on different continents during their marriage, i think she does okay for as long as she's assured that their relationship is intact (though she probably also doesn't sleep either as well or as long as she might if he were actually in bed with her) but then starts to stumble back into bad habits once their marriage begins to deteriorate.
anxiety about where she stands with him + maybe keeping odd hours in the hopes of being able to catch a phone call with him during his usual waking time (and her usual sleeping time) + increasing restlessness as she realizes that things are turning sour = a recipe for insomnia and poor-quality sleep.
by the time the divorce itself actually happens, she's probably as bad-off as she's ever been in the sleep department, hence the sleeping pills and erratic sleep patterns that we learn about in episode 13x15 "forget me not."
while undoubtedly her sleep patterns are at their worst during the divorce, in its wake, between s13 and s15, i think she still probably struggles a lot.
just my personal headcanon, but i've got to believe that sleeping in a big empty bed (knowing that grissom will never share it with her again) is hard on her, so she takes to sleeping on the couch or in a chair and maybe even eventually switches over to sleeping in the guest room where there's a twin bed rather than a king-sized.
even then, though, i'd imagine that she probably sleeps more like she did during her pre-grissom life and the early seasons of the show before they got together than how she did when they were married, which is to say that her sleep is sporadic, poor-quality, short in duration, and infrequent in occurrence. she likely spends a lot of the hours that should be her sleep time watching tv, reading, tossing and turning, etc.
somehow, it's worse now that she knows what she's missing, you know?
that's why that first night spent on the ishmael, rocking to the sway of the waves, crammed into that crowded little berth so small that she and grissom are practically on top of each other, is probably the best sleep that she's had in years.
headcanon that after they get remarried, she actually learns to occasionally enjoy the luxury of sleeping in.
thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.
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knifelesbianjo · 3 years
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hi i just wanted to say i have been Thinking about your mary/rowena gf girlboss tag on my spn family tree...... especially the dynamic of Mary barely lives for 30 years VS Rowena who's been there for centuries
Mary who turns to Rowena for issues like 'what's your wisdom witch (affectionate)' but Rowena's advices are just either kill him, get a rich husband or move to another country in another time
Rowena knows so much about the Grand Scheme of Things and the social dynamics, like Mary will complain about minimum wage and Rowena's like 'yeh capitalism is bad blabla we've been knew' but Mary has a new look on everyday things & she adapts quickly in everyday life stuff so she'd ask Rowena stuff like 'why don't you just internet the phone number instead of doing a spell? also logically it's probably about your amazon order just call back' and Rowena pretends it's a conscious choice bc she doesn't trust muggle things but actually she just forgets how to be a regular human being
also Mary keeps a witch killing bullet around her neck and it's actually a gift & show of trust from Rowena but they both pretend it's a constant threat
YOUR MIND!!!
Thanks for coming to talk to me about mary/rowena, they live in my mind rent free, i don’t know why this ship isn’t more popular. (sorry this got a bit long, but i have many Thoughts)
I love the “witch (affectionate)” cause really Mary has grown up her whole life thinking that witches are bad, that they are monsters to be killed, but she comes back in a new world and her sons are friends with demons and angels and werewolves and she... maybe she can learn that the world isn’t as black and white as she was told, by falling for a wicked old witch.
I see it starting as reluctant allies because Mary is working a case and she needs a spell and obviously Sam and Dean tell her to call Rowena and they work it together. Neither of them trusts each other at first - Mary calls her ‘the witch (derogatory)’ and Rowena says she’s just like her sons, pretty face but no brain- but they have to learn how to work together (cause Rowena wants something from the thing they’re hunting and Mary wants to save people) and by the time they close the case Mary calls her ‘witch (affectionate)’ with a playful smile and Rowena is shamelessly flirting. (i think this happens after s13 and of course in this universe Mary never dies)
I think they make out before Mary actually accepts her bisexuality and she FREAKS OUT, because she never thought about this before. she met john in highschool (i’m not mistaken about this, right?) and yes, girls were pretty, but she was not like that, she liked dudes, so it never crossed her mind. She has a heartfelt conversation about this with Dean and when she later tells Rowena about this she’s like ‘you lads are so close minded, like mother like son’.
They bond over their failed roles as mothers. Mary tells her how she can’t help but feeling guilty over leaving after having just come back and Rowena is the first person to actually understand her and tell her she did the right thing. Sam and Dean are adults and they can’t expect her to be a mom, she should be allowed to choose her own life for the first time.
also I love you idea about Rowena using magic for everything!! neither of them is really adapted to todays world but Mary at least tries, Rowena, however, usually forgets she has a phone.
AND THE WITCH KILLING BULLET!! I LOVE THAT CONCEPT. It starts in that first case, Mary shows her the bullet, threatening her. Rowena laughs at it like ‘look at you cute young thing, all so bravado and righteousness’, but also she’s a bit worried cause she doesn’t feel like dying again. Of course Mary doesn’t use it and it becomes a recurring teasing between them. Neither of them is the kind to make a commitment but it kinda is when eventually Mary takes the bullet out of the gun and wears it in a necklace. She plays it as causal and jokes that it is to remind her that she still has it, but they both know its a way of always having a reminder of her close to her heart. Mary changes her husbands ring - a sign of what she once thought was freedom but was just another lie chosen for her, a reminder of loss and mistakes, of all that was taken from her (her youth, her choice, her life...) - for a sign of actual freedom, of new beginnings, of having control over your own life and using it to tear down the bigotry that was taught to you.
Please come and add anything you want 'cause i'm obsessed with this <3
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blueeyedangell · 3 years
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!!! MAJOR SPN SPOILERS AHEAD !!!
Okay, so this might be a far reach but, I really am starting to think Cas is gonna come back. I’m gonna focus on this main point of why I think he’s gonna come back and they’re just hiding his return. Now, I’m not saying that Cas is gonna come back because in all honesty, I really have no clue if he’s 100% going to or not but I can give you some evidence that points to his return. 
Going back all he way to 15x13, we see the scene where Cas goes to the Empty trying to find the Occultum and talks to Ruby. I always thought this scene was a little weird because Ruby only agreed that she would only give him location to the Occultum if he would get her out of the Empty. She tells him that it’s full of, “sorrow and despair” then further states, “You’re clearly connected, Castiel. Just try.” She then of course, tells him the location before fading back into the Empty and that was the last we heard of that.
Again, when Ruby is pulled out of her “sleep” to talk to Cas, this is what it looks like. 
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I thought maybe this looked familiar? Then, I remembered Season 15′s title card.
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They look pretty similar, and I can’t think what else that black goo would be other than the Empty. Generally, they put something referring to the season on the the title card like in S8 we see Leviathan goo or in S13 we see Jack’s eye.
In the first gif, you might notice Ruby’s outfit. She has on a black shirt underneath with a dark blue, almost black looking, velvet blazer on top. Comparing that outfit to the photo of Misha and the actor who plays Uriel (Robert Wisdom), their outfits are slightly similar color-scheme wise.
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Taking it back even further to 13x03, we know that Jack is able to wake beings up from the Empty, as he did with Cas. It’s obviously shocking, as not even God is supposed to have sway over the Empty, and this is the first time since the very beginning anything like this has happened. 
Here’s where the whiplash comes in; jumping forward to the beginning of 15x18, Billie sends Jack to the Empty when he’s about to explode. After he explodes, he is met with the Shadow of the Empty, who says one thing to him: 
“You made it loud.”
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Basing it off the influence Jack has over the Empty, it might be safe to say he just accidentally woke up every living angel and demon to probably ever be in the Empty. Which- might be nice considering they have to fight against God pretty soon, so an angel/demon army might come in handy. But, also not nice considering the Shadow is pretty PO’d and also has Cas with it. Rachel Miner is also listed to be in 15x19 playing as the Empty, so hopefully we’ll get to see Cas’s side of things.
A few extra things, we still have that photo of Cas in the onion field. And I know they had filmed other scenes that were in previous episodes during the photo of Misha and Robert, but who’s not to say they didn’t film scenes there that we haven’t seen yet? Plus we haven’t had any shots of Cas in an onion field either, and last time the Empty shot him out he was in a field, hopefully it’ll do the same this time.
There’s also the theory about Jack becoming the new Death, which now that Billie is dying, would make sense especially after that scene that we saw with him and the plant dying as he reached out towards it. But I’m not sure how that part is going to play out either!
Plus, there’s no way, absolutely no way, that the writers are going to leave Cas’s story so bluntly shut. They’ve been planning this deal since S13, and wrote Cas’s speech to Dean the first day in the writing room of S15. I can’t bring myself to believe that this is the end they chose for Cas, but, only time will tell!
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doctormcdaycorp · 3 years
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Soo, this is probably going to be a looooong post. I actually never use Tumblr and I probably don't even have the first clue on how it works, but a couple days ago a person asked why the 13th doctor didn't seem to have a 'well shaped personality' or 'a theme' like other doctors, so I tried to explain why for me she is one of my favourite doctors and why I think that she's criminally underrated and often labeled "the female doctor", when actually there's so much more, and I wanted to share this on tumblr as well, and I hope someone sees this. 🙈🙈🙈🙈
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I actually feel that 13 has a 'theme', and it all starts with 12's last words: run fast, laugh hard, be kind. This is the foundation of the 13th doctor. When 12 came full circle in 'the doctor falls' about his identity and what it means to be THE Doctor, is what gives the 13th purpose. She just wants to be a traveller and fix things where she can (her words in her first episode) and give the people that she meets a hope for a better universe. She doesn't need to be a big hero like 10 or 11, but just a good person. She knows that the universe still needs the doctor and she still wants to explore and have new adventures because she knows that despite everything the universe is a beautiful place, and this is shown in scenes like when she explains the anti-matter drive or her speech about love in 'Demons' when Umbreen marries Prem.
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She is bubbly and happy on the exterior in s11 as a coping mechanism because she is unconfortable showing this side to her new companions and wants to forget how much she suffered (after all she just lost Bill in a horrible way and she thinks Missy betrayed her), but this facade begins to fail the moment the Master returns and she finds out that Gallifrey has been destroyed again. From this point her mood isn't always chaotic or happy, and we see her snap easily if something bothers her (like in orphan 55 she is in a bad mood, or in the Tesla episode she kills the Skithra queen in a pretty ruthless way), and when finally she meets Ruth she gets sort of an identity crisis which culminates in the timeless child.
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And now, with Revolution of the Daleks we see yet again a new side of the doctor: she has been for decades in a horrible place, without friends or confort, left alone with her thoughts, but as soon as Jack rescues her, her first thought is to go back to her friends, and even though it wasn't exactly her fault if she was 10 months late, she still feels so so sorry for leaving them, effectively putting their experience/feelings before hers, because she knows how much it is difficult for them being left behind, . The fact that she didn't tell them that she spent decades in prison, is a sign of how selfless she is. I also think that at first she tried not to develop a deep emotional connection with the fam, because she was trying to protect herself from the usual heartbreak that would come when they eventually leave, but or course, like every doctor, she can't help it, and I hope we'll see in s13 how the departure of Ryan and Graham affected her. I honestly love her though, and the fact that despite all that she suffered is still an optimistic person at her core, and is willing to see the good side of things, always have hope and most importantly always be kind.
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This is why she is an incredibile doctor for me. Maybe it's harder to see these aspects because of the different way of storytelling; I feel that instead of explaining things they focus more on the plot and maybe hint personality traits here and there.
Well, sorry for the rambling, and sorry if there are any grammar mistakes (I'm not english). Congratulations if you made to this point.🙈🙈
P.s. I almost forgot to say that Jodie is absolutely brilliant, and I really hope she stays for more than one season. She really deserves all the love.
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amwritingmeta · 3 years
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S15: Dean and Cas
Pardon my lateness. Life is mental at the moment! I haven’t watched 15x17 yet but hope to do so today or tomorrow. Gods preserve me, for then there will be only three more episodes left. *is this real life??*
Okay, leaving that, let’s talk about Dean and Cas, shall we? Yes, we shall!
Dean and Cas’ relationship, or rather, how they relate themselves to each other, has been in focus this season, because it’s been pivotal to both of their arcs in canonically straightforward ways. Ways so straightforward that we haven’t really seen the likes of them since S11, and with the very heavy-duty callbacks to S11 these last two episodes, it all seems quite fitting.
I mean, Jack is a bomb like Dean was a bomb and Dean got to ask Amara why she would bring Mary back, and she got to clarify she meant it as a gift, a thank you at the end of S11, because Dean didn’t blow himself to kingdom come and her along with him, because instead he realised how he could broker peace and allow for light and dark to find balance.
Which is what Dean needs to find right now.
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He needs to balance out the light and dark, the masculine and the feminine, the conscious and unconscious, the ego and the shadow. He needs to balance himself out in order to let go of his fury. Why does he need that? Why would the narrative continuously hit on him needing to let go of his anger? Because that’s the reason why he was put on this journey to begin with, this slow and steady coming-of-age-coming-into-his-own progression of finding forgiveness and feeling worthy and having faith that he deserves good things.
How do we know this?
Well, arguably this season through what happens to Dean whenever he gives his fury free range, whenever he allows it to hollow out his faith, his trust, making him one-track minded, suspicious and controlling: he loses something.
He loses Cas.
This season has been all about highlighting what happens when Dean is unable to be even the slightest bit self-aware, when he veers off the path of self-acceptance. This season, Dean has had Cas disappear out of his life twice: first when Cas walked out of the bunker and second in Purgatory, when Cas went with the Leviathan. (to get them away from Dean)
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The first time Dean almost lost Cas was really all about highlighting Cas’ independence (thank fuck for that), letting us see how far they’ve come in their relationship, because Dean didn’t dig himself a grave this time, perhaps having faith, in spite of it all, that Cas would come back to him, and Cas went off on his own, feeling like there was nothing left for him at the bunker when there was no forgiveness to be had from Dean.
Except, Cas thought better of it. He realised it wasn’t just on Dean to push for change—it was on him as well. And, knowing Dean, Cas had the epiphany that he would have to lead the way. 
Dean, of course, not being able to forgive and forget all that easily, needed a final push, which is why the second time he almost lost Cas was all about Dean. He had to confront his anger. He had to, because naming it and admitting it as the root cause of so many of his actions (and reactions) is a cornerstone for him to begin letting that anger go.
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Almost losing Cas brought him to a moment of clarity, brought him to take a knee and admit to being wrong and offering the forgiveness he’d been holding back, because being angry is easier, especially when, it could be argued, you were beginning to feel that trust in good things lasting.
Yeah, speaking of good things lasting, it brings us to this question: Why is Dean so angry? 
He doesn’t know why (or so he claims) and he probably does need to have his eyes opened for him, the way Amara tried to open them, the way his conversation with her was a highlighter for the point he’s being pushed to finally reach in his progression: forgiving the past, embracing the present, trusting in the future and in the fact that he deserves to live a long and happy rest of his life. 
The fact that she’s completely dressed in pink - hello positive femininity representative who kicks ass and who once almost killed God and then was balanced out so that she instead healed him with her light and they twisted into dark and light smoke and went off together - is just delicious icing on the cake.
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Yeah, and that’s the issue, Dean, alright, buddy?
Dean is angry because his mother died and her death meant that he lost his father too, it meant that he didn’t get to have a childhood, it meant that he stopped believing that he could have good things that would last, because of a confused sense of identity and a crippled sense of self-worth—why did bad things happen to him if he didn’t deserve it somehow?— and pushed him to mold himself into what would make him feel strong and brave: the image that his father projected. 
The soldier.
The weapon and the shield.
And now it seems Protect Sammy has morphed into Sacrifice Jack, all because Dean’s fury at Chuck’s manipulation isn’t containable, and there’s no way Dean’s going to let Chuck live. Even if it means Jack dies in the process. As Dean said to Sam in 15x16: at least it’s not them this time. 
All the while we just sit here and witness Dean morphing into the revenge thirsty spitting image of his father one last time, for one final, big ole push towards the line he’ll have to cross if he’s to finally understand once and for all where it’s actually drawn.
At Cas’ feet.
Remember back in S12, before Cas died, there was that subtle (erm) motif of pointy things going through people’s hearts from behind? Yeah. It happened twice, if I remember correctly, before the pointy end of an angel blade went through Cas’ heart and he died an angel death in the season finale.
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Yeah. That.
So.
So now, in S15, we have Cas caught in a motif again, only this time Dean is right there with him, because it involves both of them. 
We’ve had anger and loss, and then honesty and forgiveness.
We’re back to anger, we’re back to Dean seeing red, blinded by it, and the only thing—we’ve been shown—that can unblind him is…?
That’s right: losing Cas.
So he will lose Cas again. We’ve been on the precepice of this as fact for a good long while now, haven’t we, my merry macarons? We have indeed! The question becomes how will Dean lose Cas again? Is Cas actually going to die? Again??
I still sincerely doubt it.
I think Cas will find another way, and that other way will equal a sacrifice on his part. His life? I mean, it could be, but what about the Empty? What about allowing himself to be happy? It could add up somehow, I guess I just can’t see it. So I think the sacrifice will somehow involve Heaven, because we know Michael will be back, and I hope it will involve Hell and all of the forces God has brought into being working against him—together.
S p e c.
Now, I’m a sadist. No, not like that -> I’m a sadist when it comes to characters. Not that there’s anything wrong with being a sadist. (Misha Collins is one, as we all know) (I joke!) (down Bessie!) What I’m getting at is that I want Cas having no other recourse but to do whatever it is he’ll have to do to save Jack to, quite literally, break Dean. 
We know they’re all teary eyed in 15x18 (feels like it’s Billie whom Dean is glaring at) and we’ve seen Dean crying against a wall and omfg I want it to be explicit and over Cas. Yeah? 
We ain’t getting them driving off in the Impala together (which is fine btw because the final episode should focus on the brothers more than anything else) (I mean, a hint that they will be driving around in that Impala post season finale while Sam goes to be with Eileen would be fab, but we can only hope and wish, yeah?) (horses held), so let’s get Dean broken over thinking he’ll never see Cas again. 
Let it be done with a big fat black marker in enormous circles around his emotional state. Let him TELL Cas to stay this time, like he should’ve done when Cas walked out the door in 15x03, only for Cas to be unable to comply, because this is all to teach Dean a lesson that this is where his anger gets him, and what he needs to do to save Cas is let that anger go, stop thinking Jack is expendable, and find a better way.
I mean, this is speculation, guys. This is hoping and wishing all over this narrative. But glory effing be if it’s anywhere in the ballpark.
It would be mind-blowing if there was a God intervention of some sort, a talking down off the ledge, as it were, as per end of S11, but I’m not going to hold my breath for *rainbows*…
I’ll hold it for balance, though. :)
Cas has waited for Dean for a long time. Dean being dismissive of Cas in 15x15 can, once again— because whenever he acts like a dick it comes back to bite him on the ass (there’s a visual for you)— be looked at as part of the tapestry that makes Cas feel there’s nothing more for him but being a father to Jack. 
Dean did nothing but instill this feeling in Cas after Cas came back from the black hole that is the Empty in S13, Dean being all “You were brought back because we needed you”—Dean saying zero things about how he was basically ripping apart at the seams from the grief of losing Cas just hours before Cas made that phone call. 
And of course not. Why would Dean admit that? Even to himself, once Cas was back. 
He wouldn’t! 
Ignoring how he really feels about stuff and taking Cas for granted is kinda what he does, so back to normal it all went. So normal and so leveled out that something had to happen, right? Because, in Dean’s mind, good things don’t last.
And then Mary happened.
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Oh, my heart!
And Dean went off and cried, by himself, because he still couldn’t show emotion that openly, even to the people closest to him. But he went down on his knees and he cried in Cas’ ear during that prayer, and that really was something.
That said, Mary’s death was Dean proven right once again, and this person, who is the source of faith and hope and that budding belief that maybe, this time, everything was going to actually get better and stay that way, became the target of Dean’s anger over the injustice of it all. Because Cas was the root of it. He’s always been the root of Dean’s slow-to-grow hope that could bloom into belief and trust, if he just dared let it, that he deserves to be happy.
I wrote in an ask reply that I doubt we’ll get human!Cas, but then I remembered that Cas is still status quo-ing it. It’s why he almost left the bunker without telling anyone again, that choice of skedaddling without checking in getting interrupted by Dean, and Cas being brought into a situation where he had to divulge the information, not only that he was leaving and might not make it back (Dean’s face though!), but that Jack is going through a trial that will ultimately destroy him, which was a nice shift in this dynamic of theirs.
Now, look it, the writers may end Cas’ journey on him status quo-ing it... but for the Empty. 
And I would shrug at the Empty and think, well, maybe that won’t come into play... but for the fact that the deal was brought up just a few episodes back. 
So. Happiness.  
Somehow something will need to push Cas toward a moment of happiness. And letting himself be happy is such a climactic moment for his entire journey—and look at how it perfectly mirrors what Dean is being pushed toward—that I find it difficult to see how that moment would bring an eternity in the Empty.
But I’ve written a lot of words on why I just can’t make sense of why they would choose to kill him or have his moment of happiness be tied to a narrative punishment so I’m not getting into all that again, but because both Dean and Cas are being pushed toward happiness, I’m curious to see which route the writers have chosen to take with it.
It would be thrilling and satisfying in equal measure if we finally get Dean crying over Cas, and only Cas. No filter of Bobby or Mary to take away focus and allow for an argument that he’s not actually grieving Cas. 
It would be thrilling and satisfying for it to be very baseline Just Cas. As it has been just Cas this entire season. Cas at the center of Dean’s anger. Cas at the center of Dean’s push toward healing. Cas having had enough, drawing a line—the one that is still there, at his feet—and doing what he’s always done best: calling Dean out on his bullshit behaviour. Cas making Dean put words to his anger, express forgiveness and say that he’s sorry and all within the same moment to boot.
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What all this will amount to, we’ll have to wait and see. 
In a few weeks. Or next week. Or maybe there will be strong indicators where the pendulum is actually swinging in 15x17!
Holy. Hell.
But I can’t see it ending somewhere tragic. If it does, it does. And it will be what it will be. And I’ll mourn a little, and accept it and move on. But I do believe it will end somewhere hopeful. Somewhere that leaves things quite tied up, but also open to interpretation, so that we can pick and choose who ends up where and how these men decide to continue on their journeys, now that this enormous leg of their progression is done, and they’ve learned to put the past to rest.
And if S11 is anything to go by, then the echoes of that ending would be a powerful way to tie everything up, as S11 was meant to be the end of the road, until Andrew Dabb picked up the reins with an idea of how to continue the show for a few more seasons. Or so I’ve heard.
11x23 also gave us the most gloriously frustrating exchange ever written for two characters in a car. Omg. Dean we-ing the absolute hell out of his speech when it was him, he was the one, the entire time Cas was possessed by Lucifer, who insisted they make sure Cas came back unscathed. “You’re the best friend we ever had” my ass, Dean! 
I wanted to talk about Dean and Sam as well, but there’s too little time at the moment for me to write more. And it’s painful, but I have to concede or hit a wall and hitting walls fucken hurts. 
I will mention that Sam telling Dean off at the end of 15x16 still gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.
Finally, Sam. Finally.
As ever, sprinklings of salt all over this meta and speculation, my dearlings, but omfg it’s beautiful.
Right then. I’m off to watch 15x17! Wish me luck! *gah!*
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bilingualfiction · 3 years
Text
Disconnected Number - L&O SVU Fanfic
Prompt: Savior
Characters: Kathy Stabler & Olivia Benson
Summary: Elliot left only a note and a piece of metal behind. Kathy didn't have the guts to do it without talking to her first. - Set in the end of s12/beginning of s13
A/N: This is part of a bigger one shot I’ve been trying to write for weeks. I still don’t have enough plot to post it so I just took a part of it - added some stuff - and hopefully I’ll get to post the whole thing soon.
She was gone for 2 weeks. Captain’s orders: take a break, Liv. You need it. It wasn’t as bad as she thought it would've been. Her cellphone didn’t even work in the small cabin she had rented. Coming back to the city, she heard her answering machine beeping.
“Finally,” she thought, “he’s come to his senses.”
But it wasn’t Elliot’s voice that filled her empty apartment.
beep
Liv this is Kathy. I’ve been trying your cell phone all day. I didn’t want to leave a message at the precinct. Elliot doesn’t want to contact you. He says you’re better off without him. I know he’s hurting, Liv. I don’t - I don’t agree with it but I think it’s his way of coping, you know? It’s not the best way but I don’t know, it’s not the worst. He feels like he’s doing you a favor. I know that’s not true. Everyone’s hurting, I guess. We’re… we’re leaving town. Starting anew. Escaping? I don’t know. I don’t really know. I almost stayed behind but in the end… We’ll give it a try. It feels weird but also… I think it’s not such a terrible idea.
beep
Hey, Olivia. It's me again. I hope you’re not terribly mad at us. A little mad, that’s all right. You have the right to. We still don’t know where exactly we’re going. Forgot to say it last time, we’re good. As good as we can be. The kids are fine. Eli is losing his blonde hair. His hair is getting darker, so different from Dickie's! Liz said he’s starting to look like you. I just wanted to say Liv, no matter what happens… you’ll forever be his godmother. His savior . He’ll never forget about you. I won’t let him.
beep
Hi, Liv. Still haven't heard back from you. I mean,you're probably busy. I guess we’ll spend some time at my aunt’s upsate first and then we’ll figure it out. I told him I was leaving you a message. He wasn’t very happy about it. Told me he sent you a letter saying goodbye. I hope that’s true. He thinks a clean break it’s the right thing to do, that I shouldn’t keep - that it wouldn’t be fair to you to see him like this. I suppose I can see his point.The city is suffocating us. Have you ever felt this way, Liv? When you left that one time - Elliot told me you spent some time undercover somewhere. Did you do it because you just couldn’t breathe? We’re all without air here, Olivia. And Eli… The kids are older now, they can get by - but Eli? I worry about him so much. He 's my miracle. Our miracle, right? He needs to have a good life too. There’s no good life when you can’t breathe, Liv.
beep
Olivia, [silence]
I guess this is it. Here I am one more time but maybe - maybe the last time? I just wanted to say… [silence]. No matter what happens between you and Elliot I’m still - you can always count on me, ok? I don’t care - whatever happened... I don’t know when we’ll meet again but we will. Please, have patience? I know you’re good at it but everyone’s got a breaking point. Just please wait, at least until he changes his mind. Which he will Olivia. I just hope you can still forgive him -  forgive us  when this time comes. We love you. We all love you. We’ll see you soon.
She tried calling Kathy back as soon as she finished listening to all her messages - but only a machine answered her:
The number you called has been disconnected.
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doc-pickles · 3 years
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maybe I don't quite know what to say
Hey so uhhhhhh ✨I just did a bad thing✨ no but really I woke up out of a dead sleep to type up a brief summary of this in my phone notes because I dreamed this up. And I already hurt Lay so I’m sorry about that. But uhhhhh enjoy this little S13 AU. Or don’t.
I didn't know if you'd care if I came back
I have a lot of regrets about that
Pulled the car off the road to the lookout
Could've followed my fears all the way down
TW// Discussion of Abortion
He doesn’t mean to look at it, he’s looking for labs for his own patient when he sees the file. The folder is taunting him as his fingers hover over it, the bolded name being the final straw.
Trying to rationalize his actions, he tells himself that his sentencing this morning is what makes him open her test results. He was curious and worried, why the hell was she getting labs done on herself? It could’ve been a system error, but as soon as he opens the file and sees her birthday printed under her full name he knows it’s not. He scans the papers, looking for anything out of the ordinary. He almost misses it, the spike in her hCG levels so high that there’s no doubt in his mind what they mean.
He makes quick work of gathering his own test results before he barricades himself in the nearest supply closet. Chest constricting tightly he knows he’s in the middle of a panic attack as soon as he struggles to pull in a complete breath. The feeling is foreign, something that hasn’t plagued him since he was a young boy huddling underneath the dining table praying his dad wouldn’t hear him shushing his siblings' cries.
The thought of his dad made his heart clench, fear ripping through him like a hurricane as he entertained the idea that he might end up being just as crappy as his own father. If his head was screwed on right he’d know that he could never treat any child of his the way he had been treated, but he’s not thinking logically as he hyperventilates in a closet thinking about his impending fatherhood.
He was going to be a father. A dad. There was going to be another human that depended on him. He’d created another life with a woman he loved more than he could say and who currently wasn’t speaking to him and he might be going to jail. Before he can process it he’s leaning over an empty bin and puking, the fear and anxiety coursing through his body winning out.
Eventually he goes back to work, though he can hardly remember it. His body is on autopilot as he finishes his shift and drives back to Meredith’s house. When his brain finally decides to let him process everything that’s been spinning through it for the past few hours he finds himself standing in the shower under a cold spray of water with tears streaming down his face.
How had he fucked up this badly? How had he ruined things so utterly and completely between them? He should be at home with her, celebrating this unexpected surprise with their favorite takeout as they laid across the couch talking about their future. Instead there were miles of Seattle between them and even more distance between their hearts as they both struggled with their new realities. He with the prospect of facing jail time for his rash actions, her with the potential that she could end up a single mother because of what he’d done.
At the end of the day he knew it all fell on his shoulders, he knew he was to blame for fucking them up so royally. Despite knowing that he was to blame for the disaster their relationship had become, all Alex wanted was to hold Jo close and not let go.
-
It’s later that same day when he approaches Amelia and Owen’s new home that he sees her again. He doesn’t want to upset her, but the knowledge of their impending parenthood spurs him forward. Her eyes dart up to meet his as she tries to avoid answering his questions. She’s mad, he knows she has every right to be but he can’t help but want to talk about it.
“Jo... I don't want to go in there. I want to be home with you,” her expression is telling, they’re not on the same page. She doesn’t want him home. “And I messed that up, and I know that, and I'm sorry.”
“You can't just say that, Alex,” there’s tears shining in her eyes as she looks at him. “It doesn't fix anything. Sorry doesn't fix all of this.”
He knows he needs to bring it up, that he needs to ask her about it because it’s burning through him like a hot coal, “I’m trying to fix this, to fix us Jo. I want to... I want to because I know.”
“Know what?”
“That you’re pregnant,” he takes a step forward and she takes one back, tears welling up and threatening to spill over onto her cheeks. “Please, I want to fix this so we can move on and work together. We’re having a-“
“That doesn’t matter,” her voice is hoarse, she clears it quickly before she speaks again. “It’s not going to matter by this time tomorrow.”
It takes him a moment to process what she’s saying but when he does his knees almost give out. She’s not keeping their baby. They’re staring at each other, both of them crumbling inside as they try to hold back their true feelings.
“Jo, please-“
“Please don’t make this harder than it has to be. I’m trying so hard not to involve my emotions because I just... I can’t do this right now Alex,” she looks away from him, eyes falling to her feet as the emotion she claimed to be pushing aside spewed out of her like a rupturing volcano. “We can’t do this right now and I need you not to try and talk me out of it.”
“Jo, baby, come on. We can work this out,” his voice is verging on desperate as he reaches for her, their fingers brushing for only a moment before she takes another step back and presses her hand against her mouth. “You know I’ll let you do whatever you need to but we can work this out. Please. I don’t want to-“
“No! We’re barely speaking and I screwed everything up, I can’t bring a baby into that! I can’t be selfish and screw up another life no matter how much I... I can’t do that, I’ve been here before and I’ve made this choice before. I can do it again I just need you to leave,” sobs interject her words as one hand presses against her still flat stomach. Her words aren’t making sense, he doesn’t understand what she’s trying to say but his heart is breaking as he realizes just how terrible things between them have gotten. “I need you to walk away because if you look at me one more time I won’t be able to do it and I need to, I have to do this.”
He realizes then that she doesn’t want to do this, she doesn’t want to go through with an abortion but she think it’s the only way out. His heart breaks as he lets her walk away, letting her leave with the knowledge that tomorrow there wouldn't be any hope of a future between them.
Alex sits with his guilt and tears and the overwhelming pain building in his heart until his pager beeps and sends him back to the hospital. He wants more than anything to drive to the loft and hold Jo and tell her things will be okay but he knows he has to let her go. He has to let her do this because he’s the one that got her there.
-
The night is hell. Bailey has shunned him and basically fired him, his career is slowly dwindling away to nothing, and any hope he held for his relationship is now gone. Alex stays within the walls of the hospital as long as he can, but when the morning light seeps in and his exhaustion comes with it he knows he needs to drag himself into his own bed before he collapses.
When he walks up the steps to the frat house, he’s shocked to see Jo sitting on the porch swing. Her body is almost curled in on itself, Alex’s heart sinking as he realizes she had probably already done it. He drops his bag by the door, her eyes moving up immediately at the sound.
“Hey.”
“Hi,” Jo’s voice is incredibly quiet as she picks at a thread on her sweatshirt. A quiet sob breaks through as she wraps her arms around herself. “I’m sorry for showing up here, I didn’t know where to go.”
Alex sighs, leaning against the door as he stares at her with an aching in his chest, “It’s okay, you’re probably in pain. I get it.”
She shakes her head, a few curls falling out of her loose bun as tears build up again and she begins to cry in earnest now. Alex takes a step forward, wanting to wrap her up in his arms and comfort her, but not knowing if he should.
“I’m not mad at you, you don’t have to cry,” his voice is quiet as he kneels in front of her, one hand settling on her knee. “It’s okay, I get why you did it.”
“I didn’t... I couldn’t do it,” Jo’s cries get louder as she tries to force out the words, Alex’s heart stopping as he listens intently. “I just sat in the parking lot and couldn’t move because I kept thinking... about us and how this, this baby didn’t do anything wrong. And how loved they would be, how many people they would have to hold them and worry about them and make sure they were okay. So I left and I came here and I... I couldn’t do it. I know we’re both so fucked up right now but I want this. And I’m so sorry.”
Her body slips off the swing and into his embrace, Alex’s arms moving to cradle Jo against him as she desperately sobs against his chest. His heart is beating wildly now, relief coursing through him as he realizes that Jo had chosen them and their baby. The little life that they’d made out of love and that was still growing steadily inside of her.
His eyes close as his own tears begin to fall, his lips brushing against her forehead as he realizes how much they have to work through. He wants to though, for her, for them, he’d do anything. He knows that much.
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I haven’t been keeping up with Heartland season 14 updates the past few months, but I decided to catch up on some of it since the premiere date is coming up and the teaser trailer was released recently. And I noticed some interesting speculation about what might happen in the new season, and I have...a lot of thoughts about it, haha. I think I need to write it out in order to really sort out my thoughts and feelings on it, but I think it might get kinda long since it’s pretty major, so I’m going to put it under a cut. 
[NOTE: This post was written approximately a week or so ago, and I’ve been just sitting on it trying to decide if I wanna post or not. But having watched the full trailer for Season 14 now...I’m like 95% certain that this seems to be the route that the season is going. Still have about 5% doubt because trailers can be misleading and I could just be reading into it. We won’t really know for sure until we see the first episode, and I’m so torn between being somewhat excited just because I want to know for certain and nervous because I know I will still be sad if it’s true.
Either way, I wanted to get my thoughts down before the season premieres so here it is I guess lol]
So...it’s actually possible that Ty might die/be dead when this season begins? Which is utterly bizarre to think about because I never would have considered this to be an actual possible situation for the show. Even when there was that summary that leaked earlier this year, I still didn’t think it was a real possibility. I thought for certain that was fake, because this is Heartland. It’s one thing for a side character to disappear from the show or to be killed off, but a main character? A main character can be hurt, injured, and on the verge of death, but they won’t actually die. Especially not a character who is in one of the two major ships on the show.
Until now?
Of course, if this does happen, I don’t think it’s something anyone on the show wanted, not even the writers. In an ideal world where every actor wanted to be in every episode of the show, I imagine they’d be perfectly happy continuing to write that story.
But in cases where an actor no longer wants to be a main character on the show -- well, obviously I can’t say definitively that this is the case, because as far as I know he has never specifically said this in an interview, but from an outsider’s/fan’s perspective, it feels like that is a possibility. I don’t know the reasons behind it though, and I’m not going to go that far into speculation.
But let’s go with this scenario hypothetically. Because it does sometimes happen with television shows, where an actor for one reason or another no longer will be part of a show. 
What do you do with that character?
The character could be recast, I suppose, but I don’t think that would work in a show like Heartland. How would we explain in-universe why Ty suddenly looks different when everyone else is still the same? Even if you can find an actor that looks similar enough, we know what Ty looks like after 13 seasons, and I don’t think anyone would be fooled into thinking it’s the same guy. I guess it could be explained with the trope that he got into such a bad accident that they had to reconstruct his face, but that feels cheap and too much like a soap opera. 
So that’s a no.
The character could be written out in other ways. Ty could just be off screen somewhere...all the time. He’s at the clinic, he’s spending the day with Lyndy, he’s at a vet conference, he’s gone back to save wolves from poachers again, he’s gone back to Mongolia for the third/fourth/fifth/ten billionth time. 
That, honestly, would be frustrating. It’s maybe the least painful short term option, but long term, it’s not very enjoyable. It’s like when important side characters suddenly disappear from the show, occasionally mentioned but never seen on screen again, only 10 times worse.
Or he could be written off by...y’know, breaking up him and Amy. Which, frankly, is the absolute worst option in my opinion. It would immediately, retroactively, destroy the entire show, past, present, and future. Ty and Amy aren’t the only important part of the show, but they are a major part of it. The show has spent 13 seasons building up this relationship (with obvious ups and downs throughout, but I’m not focused on analyzing their whole relationship in this post), so to suddenly turn around and have them divorce would be an absolute trainwreck. 
What would even be the reason? Even with some of my disagreements in the writing of certain decisions the characters have made (*coughtheMongoliaplotcough*), I don’t think those are reasons enough for these two characters to break up over it. So something new would have to be invented, and it would likely be something completely ridiculous and out-of-character for them both and also likely ruin their character development from past seasons. 
Which leads us to yet another option: Ty dying. A year ago this was something I never would have considered for the actual show (or any of those other options, frankly). It could be interesting to explore in a fanfic, but on the show? No way.
But...things change. Reality sometimes gets in the way of a television show’s ideal storyline, which is one of the difficulties of the medium, especially a live action one. And just because one actor hypothetically doesn’t want to be on the show anymore doesn’t mean it should be derailed for all the other actors and crew who are on board.
So you get rid of the character. It isn’t hard to do. Probably the hardest part will be the very first episode when it’s revealed to the audience. How did it happen? Did it happen before the season begins, or does it happen in the first episode? Or if it happened before, do we get any flashbacks? 
Is it due to complications from the gunshot at the end of season 13? A freak car/motorcycle accident? An accident during a vet call? Depending on what it is and the context of it, it can be a strong final note on the kind of person Ty has become. If during a vet call/because of an animal, it happens while he’s doing what he loves, taking care of animals. If from the end of S13, it’s from him protecting his wife. If a car accident, maybe he was going to pick up Lyndy to spend time with her after leaving a vet call, because he’s a loving father. All of those are inline with Ty’s character and still support the growth that he’s had from the first episode to now. 
And then there’s all the story potential and character growth that it opens up for all the other characters. Because this is something that majorly impacts the entire family. And the description of season 14 that was put out does talk about a “life-changing challenge,” particularly for Amy for obvious reasons.
How does she deal with losing her husband? They’ve been together for so long, not just as romantic interests but as best friends. What does her life look like without him in it? How does this affect her work? Is her work with horses a comfort for her, or does it remind her too much of him? How does she guide Lyndy through this? 
And then the rest of the family. How does Jack deal with his loss? Considering Ty became like a son to him and “officially” joins the family when he marries Amy, how does it affect Jack to lose him? Especially if it was in something like a car accident, similar to Marion. How does it affect Jack and Lisa’s relationship? 
Not to mention Lily, and Lou, and Georgie, and Tim, and Caleb, and Scott, and Cass. Ty was a huge part of all their lives, so this will affect them in major ways too. 
Again, it’s not ideal. But I do feel like this option provides the best story opportunities without ruining the characters in the process the way certain other choices would. 
And, of course, this is all purely speculation. We won’t really know what’s going to happen until the season actually airs, and it’s entirely possible that the “life-changing challenge” will be something completely different, and Ty will be fine. And if so, that’s okay with me. 
But if Ty is gone...I think I could learn to be okay with it. Though it does still depend on how they handle it. Like if everyone’s sad about it for one or two episodes, but then everyone immediately moves on and everything’s fine, then I wouldn’t be happy with that. We don’t need a whole season of everyone crying all the time, but we also don’t need this to be something that’s swept under the rug. We, the audience, will need time to grieve along with the characters. Because this is a main character that we could be losing here, not just a minor side character like Mr. Hanley for example. So I hope we get to see all of the characters going through the stages of grief and processing their loss in their own ways throughout the season.
Anyway, it was nice to write through my thoughts on this. It’s kinda funny thinking about how not that long ago, I would’ve been completely 100% against this idea ever happening in the show, but now I’m like almost on-board with it. Maybe it’s the effect of 2020 or something lol
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1/3 Hello you, im writing to you cause you know alot more about SPN than I do and I'm currently rewatching s13-15 cause I dont really like Jack(hes ok) and I dont enjoy the show without caring for him and this was my attempt to remedy that andheres my question/problem: How and why can I accept that Sam, Dean, Cas considering Jack their son? A child is not just someone you care a bit about but (usually) a parents' center, love, light of their life, the person care most about in the world
2/3who they would die and kill for. And I just dont see where this comes from with Jack in the show. I just rewatched s14x08 and Dean calls their son to Lily Sunder comparing his loss to that of her own daugther and I just cringed. It's been less than 1,5 seasons that they even know Jack substract the time Dean spend distrusting Jack at the beginning s13, Jacks time away in the AltWorld and Dean being Michael and dont see where their relationship was authencially developed to
3/3 developed to justify and naturally reach a point of intensity and love that a father would feel for this. Someone he's grown to care about despite his initially rejection and would now (s15 maybe) consider part of his extened family, that I can buy, but early s14 equating their relationship to that of a parent/son is just something I cant buy whatsoever that takes me out of the story and feels so fake to me. Ugh whine whine :((( do you have some thoughts on that? sorry for spamming you:((
Hello you! It’s super okay, don’t apologize!! I’ve also had some trouble warming up to Jack, and I’m not sure I particularly care about him now, other than recognizing what the narrative is trying to do with him, the classic “the child becomes the parent” where they break the cycle of parental abuse that was done to them and learn to be better parents than their own were to them.
I think the crux of the matter is that Jack... is a child? But also isn’t a child? So it gets a bit confusing. If Jack looked like a child (okay it would be unpratical to have him fight wars in the body of a toddler, but, you know, something along the lines of the meatsuit Lilith was wearing when she was introduced?) it would probably be easier for us to accept what the narrative is telling us, I suppose.
I guess we should look at this through the lens of a child getting adopted at an ‘older’ age: I an not knowledgeable about this at all, but I imagine that when a pre-teen or teen gets adopted, there’s no immediate bonding like when you adopt a smaller child. Our brains, after all, are wired to make us bond deeply with babies and little children (that doesn’t mean we all have to automatically like children, we’re not just made of instinct, nowadays it’s also rare to find an abandoned baby only we can nurse back to health and protect. It’s more likely we do that with small animals lol) and it’s in fact proved scientifically that the whole array of phenomena that happens in the brain of a new mother also happens in parents (of any gender) that adopts a child. I doubt that the same happens, at least not in the same scale and speed, when you adopt an older child. Does that make the relationship between adoptive parent and child less deep or real? I don’t think so, it’s just a different dynamic.
The dynamic between Jack and his parents is also super different and definitely unique because of the fact of what he is and what circumstances are. Their relationship, especially the Dean-Jack one, is so complicated that feelings are just hightened by the whole extreme-ness of it. At least that’s how I read it - they go through such extreme feelings (massive fear at first because Son Of Lucifer(TM) then, you know, a rollercoaster) that even love, when it kicks in, is extremized.
So Jack is someone They Feel Very Strongly Towards since he was still in his mother’s belly! All that fear and horror (in Dean’s case there’s the added Cas’ betrayal thing when Kelly is pregnant, and of course Cas’ death when Jack is born, in Sam’s case it’s more a generic Lucifer thing which of course Sam feels more strongly than Dean due to his experiences with Lucifer) at some point turns into attachment. In Cas’ case, Cas had this supernatural extreme bond with the unborn baby, and Cas isn’t exactly the kind of guy that bonds to people lightly to begin with. Same goes for Dean, he feels everything strongly, and when he gets attached it’s intense.
In Cas’ case, he literally willingly gave his life away for Jack, and in Dean’s case... well, even trying to forgive him for Mary’s death is pretty big...
Finally, I think that they don’t have to have with Jack a relationship that you would recognize as a parental relationship. What counts is what they perceive as such. Dean, Sam and Cas all have a completely messed-up idea of what constitutes a parental relationship, you know? Cas didn’t even have one to begin with. Sam essentially had Dean, a literal child, and Dean and Sam both had an adult man who’d leave them alone and unsafe for weeks and when he’d show up he’d be drunk and violent. They don’t really have a healthy perception of parental love. They care about a kid? Bam. This must be how it feels to love a son! Which doesn’t mean it’s not real. It’s real to them, you know?
Let me know what you think! And don’t be afraid of messaging me about anything, I’m not bothered in fact it makes me happy!
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rogueangelshunter · 4 years
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Dean vs. Chuck’s favorite show
Just replying to @dotthings lovely post here, just in case she just wanted to hit it and quit it with her own post and not be bothered with responses. This is something that’s been on my mind quite a bit lately, as well - the ‘what’s real vs. what’s Chuck’ storyline has been a significant thread ever since the first episode of this season, with Dean and Sam having that talk at the end, only for Dean and Cas to have a nearly identical talk in the very next episode.
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Dean was doubtful and wary from the beginning, and pissed (he gets angry when things go wrong and he feels frightened and helpless as a result, almost like he believes he’s actively putting people he loves in danger just by being afraid - that rings so much of John Winchester’s brainwashing, I can’t even right now UGH I’m moving on before I get really mad).
ANYWAY!  My point is - Dean’s been stuck in that doubtful/suspicious mode ever since the start of the season, which ultimately leads to Dean lashing out at Cas and saying a cruel, absolutely untrue thing just because.  I am still absolutely baffled - if it wasn’t Chuck leaning on him and making him say it, as I speculated some time ago, then what motivated Dean to say that?  The thing is - Dean’s behavior in that scene, in that moment, is pathological.  We can sort of walk back a few paces and see how he got there from where he started, based on what he revealed in the 15x09 prayer scene.  Dean said that he gets angry when things go wrong.  In 13x02, Sam said it as just a one-off bit of exposition to Jack: “Dean doesn’t hate you. It… Look, sometimes the wires in Dean’s head get crossed and—and he gets frustrated, and then he mixes frustration with anger, and—and fear. ... Because Dean feels like it’s his job to protect everyone.” So although they did lose Rowena in the course of her doing that spell, they also lost Ketch and Kevin, and Jack, and Mary, and Dean is so very much in denial about Jack dying that he’s perfectly a-okay with Belphegor squatting in his body like a creep.  Dean can’t even deal with the thought that Jack is gone - so he just... doesn’t.  Jack’s not dead, he’s just not there. Belphegor’s there, instead, and ... well, if he looks like Jack, that’s whatever, but right then, at that point, they needed Belphegor and Belphegor needed a body, so ... necessity is a fucking jerk, sometimes. But Dean’s got all of that knocking around in his head when Cas comes to talk to him.  When the scene starts, Dean’s pouring himself a drink - so it’s obvious he’s determined to numb himself out so he doesn’t have to deal with it all right now, because he just can’t. He can’t afford to.  Too much is riding on him being in control of himself. 
Somehow, Cas always has that way of getting past Dean’s defenses, seeing right through them like it was a waste of energy for Dean to even try to put them up in the first place.  Which, if you’re Dean?  There’s nothing scarier or more confronting than someone who can see right through you and see the truth of who you are - and who you are to each other.  It’s MESSY.  It’s complicated.  It’s so human and so fragile and it was a weakness Dean hated in himself.  Or what he probably incorrectly perceived at the time as weakness.  It was a weakness that got Rowena killed, got Ketch killed, got Belphegor torched. So Dean tried to rip it out... he tried to rip out his human weakness, and as a result, Cas walked away.  He walked away, and Dean didn’t stop him - and just like dot said, that was the sign that there was something genuinely Wrong going on with Dean, then. 
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Some other things to think about, though - and I’ve done a fair bit of digging and research on this (can always stand to do more, of course, especially once you see what I’ve found!)...
4x18 - The Monster at the End of this Book - "Well, I feel stupid doing this. But... I am fresh out of options. So please. I need some help. I'm praying, okay? Come on. Please."
[5x01 - Sympathy for the Devil - Cas etches runes into the boys’ ribs so that they’re unable to be traced by angels or archangels.  Which means that they’re even safe from Cas, himself - so in order to locate them, they have to call him, or he calls them, and they tell him where they are as precisely as they can and he can fly straight to them. Dean became Commissioner Gordon to Cas’s Batman, basically.]
[Kripke hangs up his hat, SG takes the baton for showrunner]
6x03 - The Third Man - "Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray to Castiel to get his feathery ass down here."
6x15 - The French Mistake - "Dear Castiel, who art maybe running his ass away from heaven, we pray that you have your ears on. So... Breaker breaker...?"
6x18 - Frontierland - "Castiel. The, uh, fate of the world is in the balance. So, come on down here. Come on, Cas, 'I Dream of Jeannie' your ass down here pronto. Please."
[Huge gap because Cas was barely there enough to even be prayed to. Leviathans. Ugh.]
[Carver and Singer take over as co-showrunners, they save Cas from the rubbish bin!  Everyone liked that!]
8x02 - What's Up, Tiger Mommy? - "I prayed to you, Cas, every night!" [Contextual reference: Dean was in Purgatory for at least a year.]
8x16 - Remember the Titans - "Cas, you got your ears on? Listen, you know I am not one for praying, 'cause in my book it's... it's the same as begging..." [Interesting, isn’t it? How he starts almost trying to justify his decision to pray to him? Hmm...]
8x23 - Sacrifice - "Cas?  CASTIEL!" [I count this because Dean was yelling it at the air, clearly seeking Cas’s help, and that qualifies, in my book.]
9x01 - I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here - "Cas, are you there? Sammy's hurt. He's hurt, uh – he's hurt pretty bad..."
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[Season 11 - Carver steps down as showrunner, Dabb picks up the baton, but Carver stays on as exec producer up through s13.]
13x01 - Lost & Found - [to Chuck, about Cas]: "We’ve lost everything. And now you’re gonna bring him back..."
14x08 - Byzantium - "Cas, I hope you can hear me. We've got Jack..."
15x09 - The Trap - "Cas?  Cas, I hope you can hear me. That wherever you are, it's not too late..." [2021 AU - subtextually insinuated via camera blocking/visual cues that Dean is praying to Cas in the map room before he leaves with Sam??] In almost every one of the sequences where Dean is praying, he’s either standing or sitting down.  The only time he’s not is with the sorta-not-quite prayer at the end of Sacrifice, but that’s because he’s crouching on the ground with Sam.  The rest of the time, though, he’s usually standing or sitting, but besides the circumstantial crouching with Sam, 15x09 is the ONLY TIME Dean has ever purposefully knelt when praying to Cas.  And it is an entirely purposeful choice on Dean’s part - since we do see him looking around, and even that’s something that we’ve seen Dean do before.
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In Purgatory 2.0, Dean wasn’t looking out for monsters - he was looking out for Cas, just like he always does.  Sure, he had to keep an eye out for his own safety as well, but once he was sure he was safe and had a few spare moments, he went down on his knee and prayed to his friend.
Something else to consider, though - Chuck admitted to Sam that he was the one who slipped that half-finished spell into Rowena’s books, knowing that he’d go there and find it and figure out that he could complete it to bring Eileen back.  Compare that to Cas.  He was just one soldier out of who knows how many who went to wage an attack on Hell in order to just even get to where Dean was.  But Cas was the one who got to Dean, before any of the other angels, and got him out.  I hate to say it, but there seems to be a degree of Chuck’s meddling being too much involved in Eileen’s resurrection (quite legitimately - since now Chuck can actually control Eileen like a puppet, whereas he can’t do the same thing to Dean or Sam - all he can do is play indirect ‘I’m not touching you’ shit and mess with anyone they care about, trying to do an end-run around their free will!) for them to be considered ‘real’.  I absolutely think Sam can change that, though, and already proved his feelings to Eileen with that kiss before she left!  That was HIS choice.  Another heart choice for Sam.  Aww! Meanwhile, Eileen’s choice was to leave, which everybody can agree is pretty hard to comprehend - I think it might very well have been Chuck pulling her strings, like he did in the casino - but that’s the problem, with her, there’s really no way to know for sure, until we see some kind of definitive moment where Chuck’s control over Eileen is demonstrably BROKEN, somehow.  On the one hand, it’s fully valid (and a mirror of Dean’s own worries about the same issue) that Eileen leaves the bunker doubting the reality of her situation  - but I can’t help but wonder if they might do a part sad/part happy ending that way?  Hmmm. 
[Real talk, though, I think Eileen is so sweet and she and Sam are very cute together - I do think they could have something eventually?  But I don’t see them as endgame like I do Dean and Cas, if that makes sense.  But then, it’s hard to one-up Dean and Cas in that department - if UST were an Olympic sport, Dean and Cas could win gold for the US every goddamn year without breaking a sweat.] What I find interesting, though - I kept trying to think of wtf Chuck’s game was, because of what Fortuna told them in 15x11: Don’t play his game, make him play yours. I wracked my brain for days, trying to figure out wtf game Chuck could be playing, but then I was like ‘oh, durr!’ and went back one whole episode, where Chuck tells them that he sees what they do together as ‘like tennis... with monsters!’.  So - Chuck’s game? Is tennis. The boys’ game - as declared by Dean, and confirmed by Dean and Sam both winning at least one game each in ep 15x11, against very capable contenders - is pool. Cas’s game - as represented visually in 15x08, is chess.  Which, given his role in Heaven (and on earth) as a badass strategist and solider, makes perfect sense.  Makes even more sense that they had him praying to Michael right next to a chess board, since he’s angling to try to lure Michael in so they can nab him. If I was in the least bit clued-in about chess, this bit would be a million years long, but I don’t so yayyyyyy!   Here have some pretty Cas.
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samclownchester · 4 years
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Supernatural Rewatch 04x03
In The Beginning
(Next Episode | Masterlist | Previous Episode)
Shoooot I want to do an analysis of Cas and Dean’s relationship centered around the concept of lies. Like … Dean usually reacts very strongly to being lied to and we see that later on in the show between these two, but when they first meet like, all Cas does is LIE  … anyway there’s just a lot of lying going around this season. I’ll come back to this thought in a later episode probably.
First of all, Sam is not in this episode at all. He’s in like 5 seconds at the beginning. They’re really doing a lot of work this season to show that the brothers are on totally separate paths.
Then, Cas blasts Dean to the past with no explanation and offers very little help while he’s there. At first it seems like he’s just being your typical unhelpful magical character who pushes the protagonist the way they need to go but lets them figure out the details themselves:
DEAN ...tell me what the hell I'm doing here! CASTIEL I told you, you have to stop it.
DEAN Stop what? Huh? What, is there something nasty after my Dad? [CASTIEL is gone] DEAN Oh, come on! What, are you allergic to straight answers, you son of a bitch?!
but at the end of the episode he admits that he straight up lied to Dean, or at least, he allowed Dean to operate under false pretenses:
DEAN I couldn't stop any of it.…
CASTIEL Don't be too hard on yourself. You couldn't have stopped it. …Destiny can't be changed, Dean
(I suppose it could be argued that the first two times Cas told Dean to “Stop it” he was referring to Sam using his powers, especially given the last line of this episode
CASTIEL You brother is headed down a dangerous road, Dean, and we're not sure where it leads. So stop it. Or we will.
And therefore never technically lied to Dean about the reason he brought him to the past, however, he was fully aware of how Dean had interpreted the command and, although he talked about the consequences of changing the past, he never told Dean that he was wrong.
CASTIEL You realize, if you do alter the future, your father, you, Sam – you'll never become hunters. And all those people you saved, they'll die.
In my book, that counts as lying.) 
So, Cas, on orders from Heaven, lied to Dean and made him live through this pretty traumatic experience, of believing he could save his family only to watch his grandparents be killed and see his mom make the deal that ruined all their lives, just so he could “know everything [they] know.” It would have been a lot easier to just have a conversation about it, preferably with both Dean and Sam, and try to figure out Azazel’s end game, but instead Heaven decided (because we can’t entirely blame Cas for this, brainwashed as he is) to put Dean in an emotionally vulnerable state before revealing to him what Sam has been up to. We’ll talk about the consequences of that next episode (hint, it involves responding with cruelty).
A couple other thoughts:
Cas says to Dean “Destiny can’t be changed” in this episode which … obviously is a very big theme of this show. Everyone is constantly telling them what their destiny is, Sam was supposed to go dark and kill the other psychic kids, but he didn’t. Sam and Dean are supposed to be the vessels and start the apocalypse, but they don’t. Dean is supposed to lock himself in the box or risk releasing Michael onto the world, but he doesn’t. The end is supposed to be Sam or Dean killing the other but … it isn’t?? (🤞 let’s see). Anyway, I just wanted to point out that what Cas states as fact here is disproven over and over on the show. Destiny can be changed.
Also, when Cas tells Dean what would happen if he altered the future, two thoughts:
1) He says Sam and Dean will never become hunters and all the people they saved will die and Dean says
DEAN Oh, I care. I care a lot, but these are my parents. I'm not gonna let them die again. I can't. No, not if I can stop it.
This hails back to 2x20 when Dean was living in a dream world where this exact scenario happened, but in that world he wasn’t ok with letting all those people stay dead so he could live in peace. What’s different this time? Well, for one thing he’s been to Hell so maybe that’s changed his approach to life a bit, but also I think it has to do with action. In 2x20 Dean didn’t really do much to “save” his mom, but then he found himself in a position where the action he could take was “save” the people, put the world back right (and then he realized it was fake anyway.) In this episode, the action in front of him is to save his parents.
I don’t know if I’m making sense here but what I’m trying to say is that I think Dean is very action oriented and he wants to attack the problem in front of him, whatever that problem is. The answer to the question : Would you like your family to live in peace if it meant all the people you’ve saved would die? Changes depending on what immediate action he is presented with. He wants to be the hero of the moment, rather than really weigh the two options.
2) We see in S13 a world where Mary didn’t make the deal with Azazel. Naturally, if Dean had been able to stop Azazel earlier maybe he and Sam could’ve grown up in peace, but in Apocalypse World we know that things played out largely how they did here, except Mary chose not to make the deal and John stayed dead. She kept hunting and became jaded and cold, and Sam and Dean weren’t around to stop the apocalypse when Lucifer and Michael came for each other. Now, I’m not saying this is inevitably the only thing that could have happened if Mary didn’t make the deal, but it is one possible world.
Lastly, Dean has an opportunity to see his dad as a young man. There’s obviously lots of complicated feelings happening for him, but the biggest thing is probably how different John’s demeanor is, and Mary tells us clearly
DEAN What's he like? John. ... MARY I don't know. He's sweet, kind. Even after the war, after everything, he still believes in happily ever after, you know? He's everything a hunter isn't
Which ... I can hate John and realize that he’s a complicated character who is a product of his circumstances, right? He wasn’t always a piece of trash, he used represent to Mary the freedom and peace she had been denied her whole life (much how Lisa represents that to Dean imo (see 3x10)) and it’s just so tragic that he became exactly what Mary never wanted to have in her life. (And that her sons became that too). The writers really wanted to kill us with this dramatic irony. 
(We also have references later to him being a trash husband even before he was hardened by grief though, so it’s also possible that Mary is seeing him through rose-colored glasses, that she just sees the man she wants him to be and hasn’t recognized the darker, crueler sides of him). 
Question to ponder (and also please comment/message me if you have an answer)
It’s interesting that Dean is named after their grandmother and Sam is named after their grandfather, especially given the fact that Sam tends to be more associated with feminine things than Dean. It would’ve been easy to just have Mary’s mom be named Samantha and her father be named Dean (it wouldn’t be that weird if she named her first born son after her father who had recently died tbh) so ... why did the writers chose to set it up the way they did? Is there something about their characters we can extrapolate from this? 
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So what if when Sara and Grissom got divorced Sara became pregnant do you think she would tell Grissom or when he comes back he would learn he has a child, or maybe even think it’s not his.
hi, anon!
so the timeline for sara getting pregnant by grissom during the actual the divorce (in mid-s13) doesn't exactly work, as, presumably, by that point, they've not seen each other in person—much less had sex—in months.
however, if we presume that the conception happens in the kind of "pre-divorce, our contact has started to become more and more sporadic, and it’s going to become a problem soon if we don’t do anything about it" stage of their relationship (between the end of s12 and beginning of s13), then i've actually got a little bit of conjecture on at least one way that scenario could potentially pan out from a previous post:
say that grissom makes one last trip to see sara in the states between the end of s12 and beginning of s13 and that visit results in her getting pregnant. of course, she doesn’t realize what’s happening until he’s already back in paris or peru or wherever it is he’s living at that point. she doesn’t want to take any action until she talks to him about the situation—because, hello, he’s her husband!—but then they end up having to reschedule a few phone calls, and those reschedulings result in the makeup calls themselves being rushed, as they have to happen at odd times. she doesn’t want to bring the news up until they can have a real conversation, so she decides maybe she’ll just wait until their next skype chat—but then that falls through, and so does her next planned visit to see him. pretty soon, they haven’t had regular phone contact in two months, and she’s starting to worry that she’s not going to be able to get ahold of him before the end of her first trimester.
suffice it to say, that situation could get very fraught.
sara might end up having to make a decision without grissom’s input or even might just be so angry at him for being so aloof with her that by the time she finally did corner him into a phone call, she’d just decide not to tell him at all because what would the point be when their marriage was obviously failing anyway?
of course, things would only go down that way if we assume grissom never answers sara's calls.
if she did actually manage to get in touch with him, then i suppose her course of action would then come down to the timing.
if they were to actually get in touch with each other pretty much right away—not long after sara realized she was pregnant—when neither one of them really considered that their marriage was in trouble and sara was not yet feeling ignored or purposefully put off by grissom, i think she'd be very willing to tell him the news (though of course undoubtedly still nervous, given the unplanned nature of the pregnancy and her probable uncertainty over what grissom's reaction might be).
in this case, i think they'd end up having a rational conversation about what to do going forward, where grissom would express to sara that he'd support any choice she were to make, whether it were to go keep the pregnancy or not. in the case that she were to want to keep the pregnancy, they would likely decide to move back in together, most likely with grissom coming back to live with sara in vegas (so that their baby would be born in the states), though potentially also with her moving abroad to be with him.
however, if they were to only get in touch with each other somewhat late in the game, after several missed calls and several months of not seeing each other, at the point when they both knew that their marriage was in trouble and sara was questioning grissom's devotion to her, then she might be more reluctant to tell him the news, just because she'd hate to think that the pregnancy would be the main deciding factor in how their relationship would play out going forward rather than any actual feelings he might have for her or his personal desires for himself.
a while back, i wrote a conjectural post on whether or not sara ever tells grissom about the ronald basderic incident of episode 13x15 "forget me not" after the fact, and while that post has nothing to do with a potential pregnancy, i think some of the principles i discuss in it are still relevant to our discussion here.
to repurpose some of that post:
calling grissom would make sara vulnerable because she would be expressing need for him, and, really, there are only two ways that grissom could react to her expressing need: i.e., either by rejecting her or by accepting her.
and for as much as sara fears rejection in this scenario, i think she also fears acceptance if it is offered for “the wrong reasons”—i.e., she would consider grissom rushing to her side out of a sense of obligation or guilt just as bad as or worse than him not reacting to [the news] at all or pushing her away.
on the one hand, it would kill her if she were to call grissom and tell him about [the pregnancy] only to have him blow her off or say that [he was uninterested in having anything to do with it].
but on the other hand, it would also kill her if she were to tell him about the [pregnancy] and he were to immediately fly back to vegas to be with her and [tend to] her and suddenly want to take her back, though only because [she was pregnant].
in the latter scenario, she would always wonder if it were guilt or love motivating his actions, and she would always have the feeling that grissom wouldn’t have “chosen her” if the [pregnancy] hadn’t forced his hand.
and that would absolutely gut her.
she wants grissom to want to come back to her because he wants to come back to her, not because he feels obligated to do so because [of the circumstances], you know?
if he comes back, she needs it to be his choice, with no outside factors “forcing his hand.”
and so rather than tell grissom about [the pregnancy] and risk having him do something that will break her heart, she just figures it’s better to soldier on and keep her problems to herself. she’s still too hurt to reach out, too wary of what might happen.
so in this situation, i don't think she would tell him.
like.
if she felt fairly certain that their marriage was going to end soon anyway, she'd just decide that it was better he not know.
she almost certainly wouldn't go through with the pregnancy in this case.
she'd just get an abortion and not tell him, and she'd probably end up feeling horrible about it, not because she has any moral qualms about abortion—as per episode 06x06 "secrets & flies," she's pro-choice, and it's not like she ever actively planned to be a mother; the only reason she would have ever even considered the possibility were if she had grissom there by her side—but because she'd hate the idea that grissom would never know.
it would absolutely break her heart that a decision they should have made together never even got talked about.
it would just seem emblematic to her of all of the lost "what ifs—?" of them altogether, like in another life, they could have been really happy, but in this one, they're both just alone, completely cut off from each other.
how this feeling on her part might play into her reaction to grissom coming back to vegas in "immortality," i kind of shudder to think about. she might ultimately end up feeling too hurt by the whole "you weren't there when i needed you the most" experience to ever really trust him again.
as for the grissom side of things, if he found out that sara was pregnant, i don't think he'd ever assume that the baby wasn't his if she told him that it was.
even at times when their relationship is unstable, he has an unfailing trust in her integrity; he would take her at her word.
in any case, i don't really see any scenarios where sara would go through with the pregnancy if grissom weren't going to be around to raise the child with her, so i don't think there's much chance of a "grissom shows up to vegas during the events of 'immortality' and is surprised to see that sara has a beautiful, blue-eyed three-year-old" type of situation*.
* barring some not-very-realistic "she doesn't actually realize she's pregnant until it's past the cutoff date for her to terminate the pregnancy (which is at 24-weeks in the state of nevada)" shenanigans.
if he were to learn the news early on, when he and sara were still on good terms, then there's a chance they might decide to go through with the pregnancy—and if they did, it might actually in the long run save their marriage, as they'd undoubtedly move back in together in order to raise their child.
however, even in that case, sara might still make the decision not to keep the pregnancy—as she had never really aspired to motherhood—in which case i believe he'd support her.
and who knows? even in this scenario, the experience might still save their marriage, even if they didn't end up having the kid, as at least the whole thing would get them talking again and might force them to reconsider some of their life choices. i mean, i can even imagine a version of this situation where grissom might come back to the states just to be there when sara went to get the abortion and then he just never really left again.
anyway.
thanks for the question! please feel welcome to send another any time.
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okimargarvez · 4 years
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We're getting down to the last two episodes. In all honesty what do you think our chances for garvez is??? I mean on the one hand Luke is still technically with lisa, right? But i mean kristen vangsness storied speed supported garvez and she knows how it all ends so is she giving us hope or not?? And i want a real moment. A real heart to heart not a little moment that could mean they eventually get together but we never see. I hope the last episode is really really long. Sorry got rambling.
Sorry Anon for the late, your message ended in another place, maybe for the length.
I have to be honest with you, with all of you.
The truth is that they (production etc) can do just EVERYTHING. Whatever.
I don't want to do as usually a too long rant. I try to make a list of possibilities:
1- The greatest option. 🤩 They can give us garvez. At the beginning of episode 9 or 10. We can find out that they were together since... A moment between the end of 15x4 and 15x8. They (Pen and Luke) just wanted to keep this thing for them, for a while.
2- The bitter sweet. 😕 They can give us garvez RIGHT at the end of episode 10. Right in the last seconds. And, here is the worst, they can show them kissing but also not. And still show someone saying 'oh, but you two are a thing now'. Like... In Italy we call it contentino. I have searched a translation and it would be something like 'consolation prize' but this doesn't mean exactly what I want. It's like give you a little (very little) piece of cake and say 'What, aren't you satisfied yet?'. I prefer nothing to the little, but it is just me.
3- The just bitter. 🙄 They can show us Pen and Luke closer and almost to the point of getting together. Something like holding hands with a clear gaze in their eyes, people around them but they can just look at each other. Something really good and appreciate... If they only did it a season ago. Then, nothing more; no kisses and above all no declarations of (mutually) love.
4- The 'mmm'. 😒 They can show us Luke and Pen closer, but nothing that can be interpret only in a romantic way. This option it could also be called 'the super ambiguous'. They really enjoyed play in this way, didn't they? And Luke may not say that name; he can behave like he was single but without giving us the certainty that they broken up.
5- The 'You really made fun of us with pleasure' or just 'The declared betrayal'. 😡 They can show us Luke talking about Lisa, no matter that he didn't mention her since 15x1. You really forget that in S13 Luke did not mention Lisa until 13x21 (and he anyway did not say her name, he said just 'she has only a drawer at my apartment' . One of my friend told me that she had the right to think that she was Penelope and not Lisa. I still laugh about it). Luke may say that he wants to make the next step (we all know what this would mean). But I think that it's far more probable that they make Luke just saying her name without a sense, a reason in the plot, like they always did with Lisa. She was just a name to remind us what we can't have (garvez). They are just cowards.
No matter how much they are in love with each other. No matter 'If I ever do become the someone you want to go to when you are crying'; no matter the fact that seeing her sad turns him sad every time; no matter that she was his priority even when she pretended to dislike/hate him and he couldn't do anything, not even talk to her if it wasn't about a case; no matter the levels of the sexual tension and the chemistry when they are just in the same room; no matter that they care about each other; no matter what they could be together; no matter Luke loves Penelope and Penelope loves Luke.
It's more important the drama and make people laugh with funny scenes. Oh, you don't think it's really hilarious seeing that hot man flirting with the tech girl? Ha ha.
No. I don't.
Sorry, I lied to you. I can't contain myself. I'm a bit worried that this fandom can disappear. I found a lot of people that I really care, thank to CM. But this is just me, my fault. I'm a little to similar to Pen. Too sensitive. Sorry, again.
The day after the Finale will start a new phase of my life, literally (my first job). But I'm out of topic.
To answer to you: I keep believing, because in this way I'll live these last days better, I can finish (at least try to) my stories, and just be happy.
I'm not the oracle of the BAU, I can't say if they will give us garvez or not. Penelope and Luke still be in love, for me, no matter what happens. I'm sure that after years, in the future, when I will find myself think about them I will not change my mind.
But, just one last thing. We are not visionary or crazy. Never think something like that. Garvez is real. They can maybe not make garvez a thing, but they are in love. They would not be the first people that are in love but not together, sadly.
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foxymuses · 4 years
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how does your muse feel about not being cis or straight? are they content with it, proud, ashamed? would the situation be the same if the culture or surrounding support systems were different? (Dean)
it was very hard for dean to admit to himself that he may be bisexual. like, impossibly difficult. he was young, think like fourteen, when he first found himself attracted to a guy, and it’s not that he was afraid of john’s response (but he was) because of john being phobic or anything (which, you know, is up for debate). it was more that like... as much as one can within the hunting life, john was very traditional minded? like he often dismissed sam’s more emotional personality, and it’s canon that he fashioned dean essentially into an obedient solider, so dean kind of had this idea that like... being not-straight was Bad. which isn’t to say he thought of other sexual identities as bad in general, because even if he’s a little awkward around it, he accepts it. in fact, the awkwardness stems from his own refusal of his identity. but like, for instance when he’s trying to help charlie flirt with a guy to get into dick’s computer, and she admits that guys aren’t her thing, dean just rolls with it and continues to try to walk her through it. AND CAN WE FUCKING TALK ABOUT THE SIREN EPISODE PLEASE, like i know the siren was trying to give dean the ‘brother he wanted’ but come on. the fact that he chose to be a guy over the usual chick he’d been playing?
i digress. my point is that like, the only time dean was ever caught off guard or strange about someone’s sexual orientation is when it was in some way directed at him, even indirectly. for instance during fan episode where the musical literally included destiel and dean was like ‘what the fuck’, or when there was the spn convention at the hotel with chuck and dean was thrown off by the two guys who were pretending to be hunters being in a relationship. these things were not about dean, but they connected to him in a way, and that felt really weird to him, but otherwise, generally sexual orientation doesn’t matter as long as it’s about other people
so you know, he didn’t tell anyone about these feelings, aside from maybe a passing comment to bobby about his thoughts on the matter, which bobby casually was like ‘it don’t matter’, because you know bobby probably knew immediately what dean was getting at. but then he didn’t bring it up to anyone again, and that’s a large part of why he desperately slept around, had so many hookups, because he thought, you know, if he could sleep with a ton of girls, he could convince himself he was straight. i wouldn’t say he was necessarily ashamed of his feelings towards men, but more that he was scared of what it meant, worried it would ‘ruin’ his tough-guy act, make him seem weaker for some reason, because his whole life was about being strong and “manly” or whatever.
in fact, my personal headcanon is partly in line with the ship that i have with @gavrele but it’s that dean doesn’t even begin to acknowledge that he’s bisexual until like... however old he is in s13. at that point, you know, he’s getting older, he’s tired, he’s been through so much shit, he’s stopped having random hookups and one night stands, and if he weren’t a hunter, this is when he’d be ready to settle down with someone special and take it easy. so he’s got that mindset in that he’s mature enough, surrounded by people he mostly trusts, that maybe he can... start to be okay with it. but like 30+ years of denial don’t just go away over night, and, still referencing his relationship with gabe since that’s really the only solid ship dean has atm, things start off very small and secretive and behind closed doors or in the shadows, evolving slowly into being affectionate in front of other people, letting it be more obvious.
and some of this also explains why dean is bad at being vulnerable, why he doesn’t open up to emotions easily and has a hard time admitting he loves people, too. as he learns to accept his interest in men, he’s also slowly recovering that part of him that craves affection, that wants to be openly in love and happy and emotional. but as ever, it’s a slow process and i don’t know if he’ll ever be completely comfortable with labeling himself bisexual.
now, i do have a verse where dean was not raised to be a hunter, and he spent most of his childhood with bobby and ellen instead of john, and therefore he grows up openly bisexual, having had several boyfriends and girlfriends. i firmly believe that it’s the mindset of having to be a hunter, having to be strong and tough and hardhearted that affected his comfortability with the identity, and so having bobby as a firmer support, having more freedom in what to do with his life and what’s okay, it allows dean to be more open and vulnerable and accepting of his interest in men. so yeah, a different support system would totally change his views on the matter.
that got long sorry, but by god thank you for asking
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