#i think people want amphibia to be something its not

[spacedlexi]

Just saw your amphibia post and I think your tags kinda describe why I couldn't stick with it. Ppl kept talking about it like gravity falls, owl house, and infinity train, but all of those shows manage to make the eps that don't directly move the plot be the eps that develop the characters. I felt like amph was stagnant on the episodic side while hinting at a serial side that was never fully realized. (I've seen most of s1) -L✨

yeaaah i mean i think its a cute show i dont want people to think i Dislike it but it was not at All what i have seen it described as online. cuz yeah ive seen people lump it in with those other shows (which i have watched and love), but those other shows are Heavily serialized whereas amphibia is very episodic with a general plot that it vaguely follows and sometimes devotes episodes to, but not often. and when it does its over too fast bc of the short run time and we're back to wacky adventure of the week episodes with like.... barely any reflection on the deeper stuff thats happening (specifically post true colors)

and thats not necessarily a bad thing!! episodic shows work in their own right. but in amphibias case it feels caught between both, not really sure what it wants to be, and focuses more on episodic story telling while giving a rare plot centric episode, which impacts the pacing and makes it feel like theyre not devoting enough time to the plot, when i dont think the plot was ever really the goal of the show to begin with. and if it Was then they definitely made some... interesting decisions...

[nyan-1233]

I love your Amphibia Warrior Cats AU

Waaa thank you😭♥️

I love just making everything into warrior cats so im glad youre enjoying it. i wanna draw more of it but i dont actually have any warrior cats names for the three yet. So if you or anyone wanna help with that it would be great♥️

[understandableparadox]

a comprehensive list of everything wrong with hazbin hotel.

quick note before i lose myself in madness, my standards for helluvaboss are non existent because its a free show on youtube. also i kinda like helluvaboss and i will indulge in any bias i damn well please.

oh and spoilers. i guess.

the greater narrative of the entire season is "White lady civilize inner city hoodlum". ex: The blind side. rich girl, affluent family yadda yadda.

the story is set up to be like amphibia, owl house, svtfoe, steven universe, that being starting as something episodic then transforming into story driven narrative. why? because we know the benefits and drawbacks, episodic starts allows us to wander the world, it allows us to understand the dynamics, we are not forced to reckon with anything because there is no deadline. characters are allowed to bloom and shine and the audience can actually get attached.

the source material is Vary Clearly formed from remnants of something out of a middle school edgelord narrative. the usage of transformation, the big spooky grins, the "and then i smile as my eyes glow and-"-isms which in most cases i don't mind because in some instances but in a vary Particular case its astoundingly annoying and that annoyance is like a mold, shit spreads quick.

the color Red. as a lover of homestuck cherubs and karkat and aradia, as someone who fucking loves the color red, it is so painful to say but holy shit tone it the fuck down, i know its hell but their are so many other colors that you can use, its everywhere, the streets, the air, the windows, the screens, the characters, i know the pride ring is represented with red but change up the palates every so often for backgrounds

the rush, this ties into the second point made but i think the story itself is rushed. we know everything way to early. i know way to much and it makes it hard to care about anything because im still trying to digest the last chunk of info. "oh ok, so they clear out hell once a year. oh hell has a heaven embassy? ok. oh that adam the angel, i though he wou- oh its every 6 months now. wait the exterminators die a lot? then why is everyone sca- people in hell already have weapons that can kill angels? w- oh we are in heaven now, ok ma- no one in heaven except for the elites know the exterminations occur? how do-" and its that, just this incessant rush to explain everything to you. notably that's just the god damn spark notes, we need to know everything about the characters now, every single bit of their story, their insecurities, what charlie needs to fix, how she can fix them, the major bad guys, everything. you are never allowed to dwell on a character because we need to rush towards something else. it almost feels like this should have been like... season three, it would have been a fantastic season three if you dropped the introductions honestly.

the concept of redemption. for a story of redemption to work you need to look at three things. What is there crime, Do they want to change, What is preventing them from changeing? there is only one single character that has a notable path of redemption, angel dust, but if you look through their story it feels off. What Exactly is he guilty of? he has sex, does drugs and drinks. his apparent nymphomania is tied to his sad backstory as someone forced into the sex industry so how is that their fault? then if you think about it you start to spiral and notice "hey why are most of these people in hell?" like sure some of them may deserve punishment but then you see the fucking dichotomy and its like "I was a inventor in england and died of the fucking plague, i may have made evil little contraption hoohoohoo" vs "I was a cannibal, a full on cannibal, i fucking killed people and ate them and then someone shot me". ONE OF THESE THINGS ARE A LITTLE MORE FUCKING EXTREME. i'm going to go fucking nuts, the thing they went to heaven with when presenting a case to angels on the idea that redemption and becoming a better person is actually real was angel dust not drinking at a party and not having sex with consenting adults and i want to go fucking insane. WHAT IS THE CRIME, WHO IS THROWING THE BOOK, WHAT DOES THE BOOK INTEL, ARE WE ON GOOD PLACE RULES?! half the cast dont Need redemption they need fucking help, and the other half of the cast do need redemption but they do not seek it making the point moot. sir pentious acts like he has the brain of a hyper intelligent toddler tossing about toys, its almost like he did his one bad thing of spying and then got caught, sank his little diddy about forgiveness and second chances and become a null point through out the rest of the series, sure their was Some weight to him sacrificing himself, he was a decently funny character and he had good moments but him popping up in heaven felt like a fore gone conclusion, he didn't deserve to be in hell so why do i care that he is suddenly in heaven? because its working on the concept the good place already made. no one actually deserves eternal punishment they just need help processing what makes them a dick, but instead of looking at all the parts of the afterlife that make it bad, inefficient and then creating and trying ideas to see if it work instead over a few seasons, we crash dick first into all the major plot points in regards to that and say "tada, we fixed it.".

having a sub-plot about sexual assault and its victims then having multiple sexual assault related gag ruins your point.

don't make a bunch of stereotypically jewish characters into cannibals, that was a big thing, really shouldn't have to say it.

if you are going to make a character black, make them black, you can say alastor was black but sweet seren-fucking-dippity that's not a black man.

pot meet kettle but yeah the cursing could be a little less liberal. maybe just blue hair or the pronouns, not both.

there is a very distinctive art deco/jazz aesthetic which normally i love but i feel as though it is not used to its full extent and in some cases really hurts the character design in and of itself.

this is a vary obvious bit but the story is a million times more interested in gay men then it is of lesbians, which culminates in this insane thing where the writers clearly have more talent or perhaps it would be more abt to say practice writing male gay pining then they are with lesbian pining. which i personally think is hilarious because i did not know you could min max fujoshi-ism that hard.

this next section is more to do with each character on a fundamental level, for the sake of brevity whatever there is left, i'm just doing ones with speaking roles.

13. Charlie:

(see what i mean about that red thing?)

as originally stated charlie fits rather comfortably into every white saviour narrative, though that seems to be part of her joke. though i'm not entirely sure how much of a joke it can be when its rewarded and expected to advance the plot.

her character design says nothing, it has the motif of old puppets or dolls, she wears something vaguely similar to service suits, her demonic form is just some extra horns.not to say every character needs to have their life on a clothes rack but some more snake and goat imagery would be nice

its not the chol design of charlie with snake hair, not an actual problem but its a problem to me, damn you @cholvoq for ruining my ability to look at any of the characters without wishing i was seeing your designs instead.

character wise aside from the white savoir bit, i'm having a bit of trouble understanding what the arc of the character is. she is shown to be naive, someone who doesn't understand how the world works but everytime she says something its something astoundingly clear like "people can actually get better". and its treated like someone demanded faygo in every water fountain. is the joke that the world around her to cynical or is so to naive? please pick one or the other.

now if you know me, you know i fucking hate overpowered characters with a blinding passion, one that would set alit the god damn abyss but in this one special instance, i feel like its warranted, she's the direct descendant of fucking God, she can swing her weight around a little, i mean god damn. she in so many instances looks like shes cowering so often, why would the daughter of lucifer get backed down by some rando pimp? why wasn't she the one to fight adam? sure you can say she is young but how young? her parents were there since pre-abrahamic times, most of the characters showed up in hell in the 1900s, some of them showed up in the 1600s, how old is charlie??? how long does it take for her to learn how to be strong? The story does not suffer if charlie is strong and knows she is strong. it can easily be a case of "i don't believe in violence to a weird degree". fit it into her apparent naivety about the world to believe that violence is never the answer even when dealing with a being that is unilaterally horrible and abusive and monstrous.

she ga- no im kidding, i do think her romance was waysided a bit, it would have been fine to have more scenes of them togather and in love you know?

14. Vaggie

why did you name the lesbian vaggie...? Don't do that maybe?

I like how her design is almost moth like but again i feel as though you could have amped that up.

she feels as though someone tried to combine undyne and pearl from steven universe, same story beats and design elements. it makes it hard to really distinguish her as a character.

i honestly dont have much to say about her. she is fine.

christ kill me, lets just get the big one out of the way

15. Alastor.

God Damn

where to start.

"alastor is mixed race" mixed with fucking what? concrete? there is not a single black feature on that creature, now im not saying you have to make him a png of louie armstrong but it wouldn't hurt to add a curl to the hair maybe? make it a tiny bit more wavy? Something? a crumb i beg of thee?

his symbolism is all over the god damn place, native american monsters (you know the one), voodoo, radio, puppets, stitches, circuses??? and Tentacles i guess. two of those are from closed religions so if you dumped those you would actually get a more concise character focused on the concept of vox populi as a means of societal control and influence as we see in his first song. but again that gets drowned out repeatedly by all the other random toy box bits shoved into him.

tumblr sexy man bait

he serves no purpose in the story. he does spooky stuff, pretends to do things and then goes back to sitting around looking spooky. i understand that his motif is supposed to be aloof mastermind but maybe have him do more mastermindy things? if you remove most of alastors scenes, bar the songs, it doesn't change all to much. husk and nifity can still be at the hotel, they could be looking for outs in their contracts the same as angel dust. hell it even helps with the one scene where he dose some spooky shit, asking charlie for a favor in exchange for his help in the fight with the angels instead of asking him about angel weapons which should have remained a strictly vaggie scene.

his presence in a way delegitimize the story, as I noted in in the section regarding redemption, the three parts are "what is the crime, do they want to change, what is stopping them?" and alastor kinda just spits in the face of that. he is a serial killer cannibal that has no qualms about how evil he is and apparently must continue being evil due to being under the control under someone legitimately called the Root Of All Evil. show him take a slight interest in the idea that maybe shit for him could be better, make him Want Change at the bare fucking minimum or dont have him at the hotel.

his stupid little fucking horns, big shot the troll liker wants characters to have big fucking horns, make them noticeable or dont have them.

he looks more like a dog boy, which could have been an interesting thing with the collar motif but fuck me i guess.

personal pet peeve but i fucking hate characters that have a million plus powers, stick to a set number, be creative.

im getting more petty as i go on so last point: he could have been in less episodes, he didn't need to be in dad beat dad, that should have been just a lucifer and charlie episode. inverse the red and black and i think he would be fucking great color wise, his body type is the same as ten different characters, he isnt radio enough, aside from the voice and and staff if you told me he was the fucking Cat Demon i would have been just as convinced.

16. Angel Dust

what the fuck, gay spider? its hard to actully articulate all the thoughts i have on angel dust, not in the sense that he is a deeply thought provoking character but in the fact that there is not much meat on the bones.

all around i think angel dust is kinda middling. he has a decent enough romance with husk, he has a decent enough story line that revolves around battling addiction and removing yourself from an abuser (which the story tries to brand as "Redemption???")

I dont like that most of his jokes would qualify as sexual harassment, i don't mind him being sexual as a character but continuing on when clearly someone doesn't like the jokes hurts the character.

not a critique but he is pink, which honestly ill fucking take at point, as long as its not more fucking red.

i think his design is an improvement over some of the old vivzie designs but it feels like it could have done with going a few more rounds of design changes.

same thing with alastor, charlie and vaggie, there is not enough of the animal that they are supposed to be. You could have told me angel dust was a fucking bee or something and i would have had to believe you. nothing about angel dust initially says spider, hell he dosent even have enough limps to be a fucking spider.

17. Carmilla carmine

are... are you supposed to be a rabbit...?

Big Yoai Hands

ballet fighting style, could have been cool, wish she fought more like sanji or chun li.

A single mom that works to hard, who loves her kids and never stops-

her song was decent, not great, decent. it feels as though the actress has experience singing but not in the way they tried to make her sing during her two songs. they have a obvious mexican influence, honestly just let her sing in spanish in the english dub. go listen to the spanish dub, "out for love" sounds great in spanish.

i wish i had more thoughts on them, fucking rip.

18. cherri bomb

that's not a punk aesthetic that's 2010s alt

decent character, they showed up once or twice i guess, no real thoughts.

19. egg boiz

absolutely perfect, i have not notes on them, these are perfect creatures.

20. Emily

im so fucking happy to see a singular blue character

does the naive dreamer bit better then charlie

We really shouldnt have seen her until the end of season two or middle of three.

good contrast with the other angels on screen.

Wait she is supposed to be black??? Where???

21. Husk

keith david you absolute delight, Why on gods green earth did they only give you one singing part?

one of the few charecters where its clear husk is a cat, i do like the kinda... marquee design, he is a magic cat, thats neat. i still think you can toss the wings and eyebrows and still have just as good of a charecter.

has a deeply intresting story of someone who died as a nobody, became the fat cat of hell and then was forced back to the bottom by their own vices, not used at fucking all.

huge potential, little pay off.

22. lillith

I know nothing about her except she ditched her kid and husband to vacation in heaven and i think thats kinda funny.

alot of werid things floating around her, again she shouldnt have been shown in the show at all until next season.

23. lucifer morningstar

no notes, funniest charecter, did a song based on friend like me.

few notes: i do like the idea that the immortal symbol of pride is a constant emotional wreckage constantly seeking approval through grand showmanship and manic energy that threatens to take over anything they touch.

would have liked more snake stuff on him, maybe some more goat things like horns.

that is such a stupid fucking staff lmao.

24. Adam.

alex brightman you absolute fucking delight, you should have had more songs.

I wish his design was more focused on the idea of him being a glam rock wash up

I fucking hate his mask

We shouldn't have met him until the end of the season.

25. Niffty

again she is supposed to be a bug or cockroach but nothing about her points to that.

token straight

keeps rocketing back and fourth between sexulization and infantilization

you had kimiko glenn but didnt give her a single fucking song?

26. Sir Pentious

the secret season one redeemed.

the pilot version of him felt more like someone that could do a season one redemption arc, a megalomaniac constantly attempting territory grabs, there is something you can work with, actual character flaws to work through.

essentially a child after the first episode.

actually a snake which i appreciate.

no where near steampunky enough.

27. the villians of the show dont make much sense, each one feels like they should be season long deals on their own instead of a bunch of team rocket esque idiots that show up on occasion, do a bad thing and then leave.

28. Valentino

gOD THERE IS SO MUCH RED

only a moth some of the time.

sucks as a villain, maybe they need more screen time to show why they suck in a more substantial way aside from being told that he sucks.

it is interesting that angel dust is only under his magical control when in the studio, it shows that angel dust has to make a conscious choice to return, which in turn can be made to show how abusers can draw back their victims. I do not think it was done well in this circumstance as it shows him to be cartoonishly evil, constantly flying back and fourth between sweet and utter psycho, there is no actual reason for angel dust to ever actually go back to the studio, he just does so every so often.

29. Vox

legit who cares? the only thing about him that is in any way substantial is all the dope ass fan art we get.

propaganda machine angle that is not explored at all, just hinted at. no actual barring on the story whatsoever.

why didn't he try to do the same shit as alastor by the way? he knows its bad if alastor gets in good with charlie so shouldn't it be a ass kissing race?

same body shape as literally every other male character.

tumblr sexy man version of pyrocynicals fursona.

30. Valvette

the actual poster child of the shows huge problem of "Show me, don't tell me".

apparently the glue that holds the villains together. never shown.

apparently the one that makes the love potions that valentino is famous for. had to learn about that in the fuckin wiki trivias

we know so much about her from things outside of the show.

was there to call carmilla a coward, that's her plot contribution. she shows up every now and again but its never anything substantial and serves to more around take up run time for people We Don't Need To Know Yet.

im not trying to be mean, animation is animation, we need smaller studios to have success in the industry so that other indie studios can have that success, felling a tree makes it easier for others to follow. showing that its possible to number brain rot exacs helps all animators.

but this show has so much bullshit attached to it, it has so much fucking potential that it fries my brain with unyielding frustration.

this took a bit to write, im tired, thanks for reading.

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

Oh god now that toh ends with luz being able to travel between worlds ppl are using that to dunk on amphibia. And now that belos died ppl are using that to dunk on su.

They are different shows people! They have different themes! Amphibia is a classic take on isekai as escapism! Marcy went to amphibia to avoid her real life and while she had fun she didnt mature until after she accepted she needed to embrace change in her life! Anne matured in amphibia bc she always recognized that she has her own life to get back to! Sasha matured after realizing that too! Leaving amphibia for good means to embrace the step out of childhood! Something thats inevitable for everyone!

The owl house is about finding a community in midst of ostracization! Luz stayed in the boiling isles because she found people who accepted her quirks! The boiling isles was in danger from a bigot and luz helps her new community defeat him! Its a very queer story! Community is the center of the story so it makes sense for luz to be able to go back to the boiling isles since shes maintaining her place in the community!

Steven universe is about choosing to be kind! Its that everyone has their own specific traumas that they can overcome with the right support! Its about surviving in a world of bigots at any cost, even if it you have to work with the bigots to carve out a space for the people you love! Because people like you exist and theres nothing anyone in power can do about it! Its also a very queer story! The diamonds can never stamp out the off colors because they will always be there! Steven works with the diamonds not because he likes them but because they can improve the world for his family if only he could get through to them! Hes rewarded for choosing to be kind with success because the theme of the show is hope! Hope that anyone can change! But even though the diamonds stop being fascist steven still doesnt like them because its not about forgiveness! Its about fixing things! Stevens just polite about it!

The owl house starts off with the assumption that everyone can change but its not about the potential its about the willingness to change! The focus is on belos, whos had every chance to turn his life around but will never admit that hes wrong! And the show posits that if someone isnt willing to change theyre not worth helping! Its not about whether or not the character is fascist its about if theyre willing to stop being fascist! Several characters stop being fascist and are welcomed by the characters with open arms belos just wasnt one of them! Several characters clean up their acts but dont adequately address the previous harm they did and are STILL fully forgiven eventually! For toh forgiveness is paired with fixing things you just need to give it time!

And theres an argument that some of these shows didnt do their themes well. If you wanted to portray amphibia as an escapism world that the girls need to leave behind to get to their richer futures then having them get such caring found families go against that by giving them a potential of a good life in the isekai world. Steven universe uses the diamonds as metaphors for mental illness and relationships but its hard to stick with that when you also need to consider the countless other gems they hurt. I think its also fair if people prefer one theme over another.

But a lot of stuff i see comparing these shows just go over surface similarities? Like oh shit! These two shows have the same character archetypes! They have the same inciting incident! This must mean that theyre exactly the same in everything but names and artstyle and are trying to say the exact same things! Like. No. Sometimes,,,,,two stories,,,,,,can talk about two different things,,,,,,,

[whoistrash]

Why change matters and how Amphibia did it better than The Owl House.

"Watching and Dreaming" made me cry a lot during its premiere. I was amazed and, I'd say, dazed by it. Then I forgot about it for a while. Now I finished re-watching Amphibia for the first time since TOH ended. My hype died down, and I have some thoughts. A lot, actually.

Amphibia's ending was incredibly painful and made me sob like a baby for two whole weeks the first time I watched it. That's because it was not only beautiful and heartbreaking, but truly GOOD. Brilliant, actually. I absolutely agree with a statement that any other ending would literally be a contradiction to the whole main plot, especially Anne's arc. The girls had to learn to let go in order to grow as individuals - the thing they had the biggest problem with. Saying goodbye was the only logical option, plot-wise. It still hurt like hell, though. Separating the multidimensional, against-all-odds relationships (especially my beloved spranne. Ouch, ouch, ouch). The Owl House does no such thing - everybody stays together. They live happily ever after.

Paradoxically, I think that it's the main reason why I'd choose "The Hardest Thing" over "Watching and Dreaming" every single time. I know we shouldn't really compare them in EVERY aspect, since TOH had way more things to deal with in the final episode, but the fact that Luz got to not only stay, but to freely travel between worlds as she pleases really took the whole "growing up and finding your true self no matter what the other people do/say about you" thing out the door. Luz from season one, episode one, and Luz from the finale are not really that different. Well, she certainly became more traumatised and depressed than before, but in terms of personal growth? Nope. Luz - from the very beginning - was cheerful, open, caring and very selfless, willing to literally help every stranger she met no matter how it would affect her. She had little to no boundaries, but, well, you can't argue that she was A GOOD, SELFLESS PERSON. Now, we could say that her arc here would be learning that sometimes you should put yourself before others, that you can't save everyone, that you can't trust every person you meet. And she learns it! She fucking does! She helps Philip not knowing who he will become, and then suffers from the consequences, because she helped the wrong person. And then it's all erased, when she saves Collector's life and meets Papa Titan (or whatever we call them).

I have so much to say about this. All of TOH's "villains" (Amity, Lilith, Hunter, The Collector) that were given a redemption arc literally get turned into lifeless, edgy trauma dumpsters, that suddenly loose all of their previous character, quirks and sass (well, maybe except for Lilith, she just started to express them differently, I think, but still, it was WAY too big of a change). I won't dwell on it (since many, many fans called it out already - as they should), and will focus on something different. The only one marked as irredeemable is Belos. Good. Okay. He's irredeemable, because he's a white, christian puritan who won't listen to anyone but himself. Also a genocidal maniac. That's the lesson for Luz here. "You can't save everyone. Some people are just straight up evil". And it's very, very true. But.

From all of the "villains" I mentioned before, Belos is the one that had the most reasons to, let's say, take a dark turn. Those reasons are what makes him irredeemable - he's just too convinced he's right, because, in his mind, he has evidence to prove it. But how do we learn about this? Maybe by seeing his part of the story? Maybe by learning about his brother and Evelyn, about their relationship? It couldn't be straight up awful, since Philip literally brought his brother back to life over and over again, he wanted his brother, or at least the picture of Caleb that satisfied him the most. There was more to it than only "you betrayed me and now I will hate you forever". Do we get to see any of that? No. Instead we get an all-knowing, all-doing being that literally choose Luz as "the one" for being kind and trusting, that convinces her that Belos is, indeed, a lost cause. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Luz, the person that on the literal episode two was told that there is no such thing as a "chosen one" and that she can't always hop into action to save everybody, because, it's, well, not always possible, DOES EXACTLY THAT in the finale by taking a bullet for The Collector, the, you know, very freshly redeemed and suddenly cute and funky villain, whom Luz trusts immediately. AND SHE IS REWARDED FOR IT BY BEING MADE THE CHOSEN ONE. BY A GOD-LIKE BEING THAT CLAIMS TO BE ALL-KNOWING AND CAN DECIDE WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG, BECAUSE OF PERSONAL (King) REASONS. Just like, you know... Belos? The irredeemable villain? And then Luz lets go of the moral dilemmas that's been keeping her up at night for the past months, makes up her mind, defeats the bad guy, learns nothing, and gets to stay in the Boiling Isles and on Earth. With her beautifully redeemed girlfriend and friends whom she kept secrets from and lied to out of fear of being ostracised (you see the pattern here, right?) for, again, months.

I love Amphibia. I love The Owl House. But Amphibia handles it's "villains", generally wronged characters and the whole change/no change thing way better. Well, maybe besides the Core - they got a bit wasted in my opinion. But still. Sasha. Grime. Marcy. Andrias. Anne herself. They learn and change. And more importantly, they face consequences and come to understand and accept them. There's no "chosen one" here. Anne gets the proposition because she's the first one to use the music box for good in literal millenia. A fact, plain and simple (not an opinion based on personal motivations), that makes sense plot-wise, and adds so, so much to Anne's arc. Because Anne from season one, episode one wouldn't care. The one from the finale cares very damn much. And that's the biggest difference.

Saying goodbye makes the message way stronger. The more I think about it, however, the more I'm starting to be afraid that there's no The Message in The Owl House to begin with. Luz learns very little, yet ends up with everything she ever wanted. There's no power behind it. The "find the right people and choose to trust them, not everyone will be your friend" and "some things are out of your control, some people are just bad" aspect is even weaker, as proven by basically the whole season 3. I will end it by my favorite quote from Amphibia, that I think about on daily basis. Have a good day, y'all.

"Change can be difficult, but it's how we grow. It can be the hardest thing to realize you can't hold on to something forever. Sometimes, you have to let it go; but, of the things you let go, you'd be surprised what makes its way back to you."

[nerves-nebula]

chelloooo the tmnt getting more racist thing is actually rlly interesting to me because I don’t think it’s getting more racist , I just think that as more and more pieces of media with good Asian representation come out (eeao, amphibia, and even elemental are the first things I can think of) there’s more stuff to compare it to and realize that tmnt is just… not it. And that although it’s gotten less blatantly stereotypical, it just hasn’t followed the curve of good Asian representation in media. It continues to be lacking. It improves in small ways. It’s just slow 

and I also think it’s because how tmnt handles japanese and east asian culture in general took such a fucking nosedive with mutant mayhem. Look at splinters entire character and the fact they learned to be ninjas from mostly popular chinese movies. Like almost everything about this movie shows how much the creators were looking through it with an orientalist lens

Like. I don’t think tmnt is getting more racist, I think the amount of racist shit is staying relatively the same.* So as western culture and pop culture starts to be less racist, tmnt starts to look more racist as a result. And also because socially and culturally speaking, tmntmm is Rlly Bad. Like look at it once with ANY IDEA of racist stereotypes and it’s Bad. It would have been fine like any year before 2023. But compare it to any popular piece of media that’s come out in the past 1-3 years and its…. Lord. It’s not it ………

(I like tmntmm etc. I just have to ignore a lot of the racist stuff in it, as I have to do with most pieces of media. But for something that came out in the 20s it’s so much harder to turn a blind eye to it than other stuff.)

*imo it improves the most with rottmnt. But that show was also racist in other ways, just not towards japenese culture. It handled being asian american and an immigrant surprisingly well

(also for judas’ followers who don’t know me I’m asian 👍) -angie and jonah

OHHH YOU PUT IT PERFECTLY INTO WORDS. Tmnt isn’t really getting more racist it’s just improving very very slowly compared to a lot of modern media.

Like it feels weird when racist stuff happen in old media but you kind of expect it in old movies & tv- but when it’s still present in modern day it’s kinda more noticeable.

And yea I feel a similar way about mutant mayhem, it’s very good in a lot of ways! Racially isn’t one of them!

Not even just with Asian stuff either- which I think you’ve covered pretty well here- but from a black perspective it’s not great either. superfly is kind of weird to me cuz he’s clearly black and his coding is clearly pulling from black culture and he’s all macho and chains and I love that for him. I think he’s so cool.

But he’s basically just another one of those villains who’s an oppressed person who’s faced violent discrimination and fought back- and that in itself is framed as explicitly evil. Him telling the story of how he was being chased by a mob and faught back is when we’re supposed to start thinking he might be evil.

and so he’s like, coded as an activist or civil rights leader, but instead of fighting for equality rights he wants to kill all white people (in a metaphorical sense) and it’s like oh ok cool. This again. Greatttt.

Anyway point is: ur so right

[mdhwrites]

Okay, don't you think you're being harsh to think Dana Terrace is incapable of creating anything good and dreading it when she creates something? Like, the idea Owl House never should have existed (based on what that one anon said) is way too harsh and insulting to Dana.

Like come on, Dana's a pretty nice person. Heck, a lot of the people and creators who work at Disney TVA like Alex Hirsch, Matt Braly, Frank Angones, Matt Youngberg, Daron Nefcy, Chris Houghton, and Shane Houghton have nothing but nice things to say about her. Ditto with the rest of the Owl House cast and crew (a ship is more than its captain after all) being saying nothing but nice things about Dana.

And it's not like Dana's the only Disney TVA creator who has caused people to go against Disney. Alex Hirsch has badmouthed Disney several times (even making a Twitter post on how much Disney meddled with Gravity Falls), Matt Braly was frustrated with the last minute True Colors delay and expressed frustration with them here ( https://twitter.com/Radrappy/status/1746706435080323397), and Bill Motz has made comments on how Disney treated Molly McGee that worsened the opinion of how Disney treats their animated shows.

So I had considered saying that the ask did go a bit far in how angry it was at Dana. I mentioned that being unprofessional does not make you a bad person. Some of the actions are frustrating to me but I am not trying to say Dana is wrong for having made a product in such a flawed way. I am at least trying not judging her as a person, just as a creative. I also don't think TOH simply shouldn't have existed. It had plenty of good ideas but at the end of the day, its captain should be the one who is in charge of those ideas and making sure that they're focused on telling the story and staying consistent. Dana wrote Reaching Out, one of the episodes of the show that most destroys both character potential and the believability of the world. It's also not by any means the only episode with a main writing credit for her like that, such as The First Day. As a writer, I genuinely just don't get the impression she has the attention span to be leading such a large project, especially if she is going to complain about not having full control over it while also lacking more concrete ideas to what it is. When I say I am not interested in the next work Dana is the director for, I just mean director because these flaws in her style make me think that unless it's an anthology series, anything she makes is going to have me get frustrated by the work over time.

NOW as for the stuff about her being unprofessional: Time and context is HUGE here. Matt getting upset about True Colors leaks? The COMPANY is also going to be upset by them and while it might berate Disney for lack of security, it is a genuine fuck up on their part to do with his show and him lambasting the leaks also pushes the audience not to spread them. There's nothing unprofessional about that nor that might harm the show. Alex Hirsch released that video about the censor board for Disney on Gravity Falls YEARS after the fact (this also goes for the tweet that you quote from Matt which is literally two weeks ago, well over a year past when Amphibia ended). The show was already a success and a video like that might make Disney look a little silly but it won't harm how people see the product or trying to get into it. In fact, with the current state of things, it might actually be seen as a PR bump.

Meanwhile, Dana was shit talking her own show and blaming it on the company she CHOSE to work with regarding literally half of the content that was out at the time. Worse yet, the first half. The half that theoretically needs to sell you on the show. What is a new viewer supposed to think of that if they haven't seen the show? "Well, even if it gets good, even the creator admits the first half is at least underwhelming. I don't want to have to put up with half a season of subpar work just to get to the good stuff."

And as I said with Hirsch: How people feel about Disney, and how clearly Disney actually does want the rep in TOH to be a selling point for them (they immediately were willing to do Lumity marathons or have them featured on Disney+ for Pride Month, as well as Lumity being the only t-shirt released by Disney that wasn't of just The Owl House members or the logo), means that Dana getting upset about them for the homophobic acts in Florida probably was seen as at worst neutral. Buuuuut that shifts when she starts trying to accuse the treatment of their programming onto their homophobic ideas because suddenly part of the company's selling point on the show is being actively damaged by the creator. Worse yet, she is doing it as speculation rather than sticking to the reasons given by Disney. Feeding into people's anger about the company while eschewing responsibility for why the show was shortened like it was. This is admittedly less of a strong argument, I do still support her lambasting their homophobic politics, but it's a moment that has stuck with me for something I'll get into later.

This is also without getting into the fact that one interview with her specifically mentions her first response to the shortening being to end S2 on a massive cliffhanger and then just GTFOing on them, a statement that is going to make ANY production company start sweating about you as a creative they want to work with. After all, the crew and other creatives may love Dana... But what do actually publishers and people she has to clear this stuff with think of her? You know, the people who decide funding on these matters because that is just a part of the majority of animated work currently unless you somehow manage to get enough patrons to be able to go independent like Vivziepop with Helluva Boss.

All of this also gives the impression of someone who would rather blame other forces than learn. Honestly, one of the best things I've heard her say is that the shortening did push her creatively. Force her to make decisions and try harder. That gives me hope... But she spent so much of TOH complaining about corporate oversight or riling up her fans against the company who shortened her that... I don't know if she'll take that to heart. If she's going to treat this as a learning experience or if she'll double down. Again, one of the biggest regrets she has is not getting to do more Raeda, despite their one episode already being almost entirely pointless.

Even if she is a wonderful person, from a publisher's standpoint, she seems like a high risk gamble for honestly that incredible of numbers. Someone who might turn on you if you ever force a decision she doesn't like or push her too hard. That's not something a big corporation is going to want. It makes it sound a lot more like she's someone who indeed should just go independent if she really found working for Disney so rough.

I would love to be wrong though. I would love for her next work to be a knock out of the park. I just know that I'm probably going to pick it up AFTER it's done and I know it actually knew where it was going instead of just scrambling to put the tracks in front of it.

======+++++======

I will probably try just not to talk more about Dana as a creative because I REALLY don't like talking about the creators themselves instead of just judging the quality of their work. I genuinely wish Dana the best but... Man, after I've had so many people dismiss everything I've ever said about this show because of the shortening, or because Disney was too restrictive on LGBTQIA+ elements or because they forced Hexside onto Dana, ruining her plans, excuses Dana has herself pushed for the fans to use by using them herself...

It made learning just how little of any sort of plan she ever had so exhausting and infuriating, amplified by just how much this fandom screeches about TOH's unfair treatment when I don't see any of them going to bat for Molly McGee right now the same way. Not in my corners at least. Edit: I have been corrected that people are pretty mad for Molly McGee which good. They should be.

[gemsandjunk]

I’ve had this in the back of my mind for a while but I think certain owl house and amphibia fans need to be more… normal? About other Disney TVA shows existing.

I’m not saying no one is allowed to be mad that toh got canceled or amphibia never got any proper merch, I’m mad too, but I keep seeing people’s anger over their favourite shows bleed into anger at other shows on the network for simply existing.

Like, I remember when the ghost and molly mcgee was accused of being the reason True Colours got pulled because it’s theme song happened to air that day.

I remember when the Witchverse- a show that only has a promotional poster to its name- got dragged on by owl house fans when it was announced because their show with witches got cancelled.

And I don’t need to remember people treating big city greens like its a soulless project that only exists to convince network executives that episodic cartoons should reign supreme because that’s the only time these people acknowledge big city greens exists.

And I’m seeing this happen again with Moon Girl And Devil Dinosaur! Merch for the show got revealed a while ago- and by merch I mean a singular funko pop- and so much people reacted with resentment because toh and amphibia didn’t get merch. Never mind that MGADD’s merchandising is done by Marvel because it’s a Marvel show first and a Disney TVA show second, the fact that it had something toh and amphibia didn’t was enough to spark outrage from some people.

I’m not saying that everyone has to love every single one of these shows, but lately it feels like so many people want every new release to be treated as badly as the owl house was or have their episodes leaked like amphibia out of spite.

People need to stop pitting creatives and their passion projects against each other and start directing their anger at who’s actually to blame: the Network.

[grendelsmilf]

i'm so mean about the owl house on here but i do want to clarify that i have seen the whole show, and i think it is cute and charming and has good politics and i'm glad children (including my brother, who really liked it!) have this to grow up to. i don't actually think that as an adult i have an obligation to like every piece of children's media i show to kids, or that as a lesbian i have an obligation to like every piece of "representation" we are given. this show is not for me, but it's still good for what it is, and deserved better from the network. i respect dana terrace a lot and think she did a great job with the resources and limitations she had. i enjoyed watching the show, and thought parts of it were even brilliant (eda's struggle with her chronic illness, the implications of christian missionary colonialism as being the original sin at the heart of the united states, luz's relationship with her mom, the collector as a villain along the lines of anthony in "it's a good life" by jerome bixby). the only reason i disparage it as often as i do is because i grew bitter over seeing how many people my age were genuinely fawning over this show and its largely shallow and cliched cast of characters. maybe i'm missing something and it simply never clicked for me (besides eda, who is the goat), but there was something very irksome to me about the way people compared it to its sister show amphibia as if it was the obviously superior child [of gravity falls]. amphibia may have been less plot-focused and less superficially compelling, but it was a show that truly understood its characters and took its time to develop them thoughtfully and carefully. luz noceda has nothing on anne boonchuy, amity blight has nothing on sasha waybright, willow park has nothing on marcy wu, gus porter has nothing on sprig plantar, etc etc. (ok fine eda clawthorne may have something on hopediah plantar, but i can't help loving disabled milves it's literally written in my contract!) so my point isn't that the owl house is bad (it isn't!), but simply that i found it somewhat hollow at its core. it was clearly a labor of love, and i have nothing but respect for dana terrace, alex hirsch, and the rest of the crew for making the most with what they had. so if you love it, more power to you! i wanted to love it so badly. anyway stream amphibia

[kukuandkookie]

Saw someone who apparently really really hated the new direction Link Click season 2 took, to the point they felt like it ruined season 1 in a way that hurt and so on, and I am not here to attack a solely subjective opinion nor to say that Link Click is perfect. But this belief that season 2 was too different from season 1 did get me thinking, because...

Huh. The biggest criticism people had for season 1 was that the main characters outside of Cheng Xiaoshi (Lu Guang and Qiao Ling) were underdeveloped and/or the origins of their powers were unexplained. People freaking out over season 2 means people care more about these characters now. So it's just interesting in that regard. :ooo

I can't comment on this narratively yet, although I have seen people disagree that this goes against the themes of the show (I actually think it could lead to a really intriguing thematic breakdown, since Lu Guang seems so on top of things in season 1, but he isn't in season 2).

Basically, it already leads to a conversation about grief and regret and letting go. Season 1 very explicitly tells you to do these things, to the point of spelling them out repeatedly. Season 2 and beyond will likely implicitly explore these things, even if they directly state something else.

Contradictory themes can still be meaningful; the world is contradictory, so if we see a series challenge itself with a seemingly different set of themes (at first glance), it doesn't automatically mean it's a bad thing. I can see how it may feel like a sellout, but Link Click explores such complex ideas that there's still lots of themes we can enjoy even in the new direction the show is taking—especially when looking at things about moving on and letting go and being human (which we now know Lu Guang is. He isn't the more "perfect" time diver we saw in season 1). And this does begin to unravel the mysteries set up by season 1, and based on the fandom growth, a lot of fans do like it—which, again, I think this indicates an interesting turn of events.

Because the fact is that before season 2, Link Click has always been praised for its narrative but not really its characters. Now, despite the criticism against season 2, it's being praised for both. If nothing else…

We can see more to these characters now, beyond just Cheng Xiaoshi's pain. Now we see Qiao Ling and Cheng Xiaoshi's childhood, Lu Guang's pain, Cheng Xiaoshi's growth, and how they're not only just a group of friends, but a family.

And given the trend of episodic shows turning more narrative-driven, from Gravity Falls to Steven Universe to SVtFoE to Amphibia and more (even in donghua, we have Scissor Seven and The Legend of Luo Xiaohei and even God Troubles Me basically doing this too)… I think a lot of people do want to tell deep, emotionally-connected stories, and if fandom has proven anything, it's that connecting to the characters are crucial. So at the very least, season 2 has achieved that!

[the5n00k]

Character analysis essay: (kind of, it's mostly me just rambling)

The Ghost and Molly McGee and the concept of unconditional love and acceptance

‼️Spoilers ahead for both seasons 1 and 2!‼️

The Ghost and Molly McGee is one of the most special animated tv shows I've ever seen for several reasons but none quite as special to me as this. A ton of shows, especially on Disney channel, boast of their friendships between the main characters and their hijinks they get into but none have quite impacted me like the friendship between the two titular characters Molly and Scratch. I mean when I first watched this series in July after the season 1 finale, I expected to have a brief period of obsession, a few drawings, and then I'd move on. As you can tell by my blog, that did not happen. (For better and for worse)

People dismiss this show because of the more grounded slice of life episodic approach it takes but honestly I feel like that's it's strongest aspect. It allows the characters to have more moments where they can just slow down and connect. There's no urgent threat (save for a few episodes) that needs to be addressed or the world will end. The characters get to talk, react, and grow because of its slower pace. I say slower loosely because this show will also throw jokes at you harder and faster than an automatic tennis ball server but it knows when to take a moment seriously when it needs to. (This is also why season 1 Amphibia is my favorite and y'all can fight me for it.)

Now onto my main point; Molly and Scratch's relationship.

They start out rough. REALLY rough. They're not good for each other in the slightest. Scratch is mean and constantly trying to sabotage Molly and Molly is controlling, dragging Scratch along on her daily tasks even if he expresses how much he does not want to come along. But no matter how terrible they treat each other, there's still a level of care.

Take First Day Frights or The Unnatural for example. Scratch is more than willing to watch Molly fail until he sees her getting picked on, something he's experienced almost every day of his afterlife, possibly his living one too. He has this connection to her early on, he has this empathy. He'd never expressly admit it and he still tries his hardest to make her give up MANY times throughout season 1 either for his own amusement, thinking the effort isn't worth both of their time, or simply because he has to keep Brighton miserable. But seeing her upset always sets something off in him. And while he doesn't verbally admit he cares about her until the season finale, he does eventually acknowledge her as his best friend (although in that instance it was more to spite Libby) and acknowledge himself as part of her family. The most notable episodes that highlight their more stable relationship are season 1, 18-20 (for those unaware, that would be Out of House and Home/Home is Where the Haunt is, Scaring is Caring/All Night Plight, and The Jig is Up/Molly Vs the Ghost World)

Moving onto season 1 Molly now, she was controlling and seemed to enjoy annoying Scratch in almost a sibling-like behavior, poking him, teasing him, playing with his "hair" but the further you get into the series, the less annoying these feel and the more endearing they become. She also begins to respect his boundaries more, summoning him less and kind of letting him do his own thing in the general area while she has her own plot going on. (Goat Your Own Way and gags ... The Internship) And even after the curse is broken, she seems willing to let him move on away from her if that's what he really wants. She's more interested in his happiness now than her own. Letting go of that control is HUGE for her considering how much emphasis she put on him being her first forever friend. She didn't even expose him to Libby until she got his permission. I brought it up once and I'm bringing it up again dammit.

These two broken, mistreated, flawed people who found each other by complete coincidence would do anything and go to the ends of the earth for each other. And they did.

Moving onto season 2 I was terrified they would regress in some way from this. It was such a high note and a perfect end to their arc all throughout season 1, but now there was this new status quo. They were used to each other now. They could feel like completely different characters at this point. But they weren't, in fact they're even better.

They fight, they argue, they disagree on A LOT of things, but at the end of the day they're even more supportive and loving of each other than ever before.

They're not tearing each other down anymore, they're actively building each other up. Making the other a better person. Cheering them on. This even extends to the B characters like Libby and Darryl, they feel like a close-knit family. Even when they argue, the first thing they see when they say each other again is "I'm sorry" which is HUGE for Scratch, acknowledging fault was (and still is to some degree) really hard for him. They love each other no matter what. They've still got their issues, Molly still feels like she needs to burn herself out to make others happy and Scratch is still calloused and mean towards new additions to his social circle but that just makes them feel more authentic. I don't want them to be perfect. Watching them improve yet still struggle with the same issues they had at the start of the series makes them feel so real. For being a show that's mostly episodic with loose continuity, the development its characters go through is so slow burn sometimes you don't even notice it just binging the series. But if you jump back and forth between an early season 1 episode to a late/season 2 episode, it is STAGGERING.

Molly doesn't love Scratch because he stopped being mean. Scratch doesn't love Molly because she stopped being an overbearing ball of energy. They've loved each other in spite of that. They see past these flaws to their source and relate to the feelings they stem from. At their core, Molly and Scratch are exactly the same; social outcasts seemingly doomed to never having lasting connections. They just responded differently to what they had to go through, their two extremes are even similar in some ways with over possessiveness and insecurity. When Scratch was defending himself to Libby, he couldn't even name any of his redeeming qualities. And Molly still thought Scratch wanted to leave her in spite of everything. They're so torn from their experiences and that drives them closer together. I'm tearing up writing this.

They're broken but they're healing. They're best friends forever. One without the other would not be the same person. Although they aren't codependent, they've gotten along fine on solo adventures without the other needing to step in and solve their problem. They're healthy in their toxic behaviors because they call each other out. I don't consider a relationship toxic if there's noticeable improvement and growth. They're mature in their immaturity, their friendship is so simple and sincere. They enjoy each other's company and don't care who knows it. They're weirdos and so is everyone else they're friends with. Save for maybe Geoff. I don't think a single soul hates Geoff. I'm getting off topic but their friendship is something I always wanted.

They know they're broken, they know they're flawed and selfish at times. But they're trying. And that effort is sometimes all that one can ask for. The dream team for all eternity.

[tornioduva]

Avatar the last airbender - a small thought on Aang design

....Ok, so, all the talking about avatar these past days made extremely inclined to rewatch clips and episode from theoriginal. and with that, i developed a particular opinion o a specific things: Aang's tatoos.

Now, we all like the lore and worldbuilding of this world; it has its issues, but it functions really smoothly (not considering Korra). I do think one thing we can all agree too: Aang's tatoos are how they are because they look cool by themselves more than for cultural reasons, but they do even more in his avatar state:

Aang is visually really cool and iconic in both forms, and that is in gran part thanks to the tatoos.

What i want to say with this is: why only Aang has them? or to be precise, why the avatar state interacts with a visual component of the body other than the eyes only with the Air nomads tatoos? other air avatars have them, so it seems to be a peculiarity exclusive to his people. why is that?

And why is that a "problem" with me.

I'll be short with this: i just think all the other avatars should have visually highlighted elements other than just the eyes like aang does.

I just see it as a wasted opportunity, both to add cool properties to the avatar state and to add cultural details to the avatars and their people.

Like, i don't know if it's explained somewhere, i don't remember all of the show by memory, but it don't remember to any explanations as to why. One could sayis because the air temple are the most spiritual one. are you sure? that in the whole world only them have figured out tatoos that connect to the spirit? come on.

it's shown multiple times that spirituality is something possesed by all nations, and each with their own interpretation and local declination, this is just the one of the air nomads. Yeah, maybe adding to the others would leessen the specialness of the air nomads, but i think we would only gain by more visually diverse avatar states.

Like, tell me to my face that it wouldn't be cool to have fire avatar with glowing flames pattern on their fists and feet (maybe face even), water avatars with flowing waves all over their body, and maybe earth avatars with patterns all over their chest and back.

also, one, could say that the tatoos are important to aang, and so maybe this is a uniquely his thing for some reason. well, this opens even more possibilities!

if the avatar state does make things on the avatar's body glow based on their history and feelings, we could have things like hair, fingernails, only hands or feet, the mouth, and stuff like that. something like Anne from amphibia.

Listen, i just want something as badass as this for tthe other avatars too.

This all train of thought started mainly after i rewatched some TloK clips, where i realized how plain she looks if compared to Aang.

Like, she does go hard visually many times (especially here), but Aang just sticks to you.

i'm not sure what i could give to korra that does not clash too much with her design; again, maybe some arm tatoos would do the trick, but, given how her story goes, i think it would be cool if she had something like glowing cracks in her skin, giving a hint on her depowered/unstable character state, overflowing from her.

or maybe even just a glowing shade on the end of her hair.

don't know, i just think this was kind of a waste of good design, there to look cool but to not expand this privilege to others as well.

[thisbelongsto-nohbodys]

I feel like with the Owl House, what happened was just too many people either pirating it or not watching on official sources, so it wasn't seen as that popular. And Dana Terrace just worked out a deal to at least finish by having those three specials. That being said, I wished they'd done something similar to, say, Spider-Man, where they at least gave it five specials to end its last season over just three. Yeah, it'd only be two more, but I think it would've helped tighten the ending.

It's also that the studio doesn't support these shows and it makes it harder for some of them to get new audiences. A lot of studios have been doing this lately, they hardly do any marketing and some ads either don't represent what the show/movie is (see Elemental) or make it look too weird/silly/doesn't get the tone. Not to mention merch, when's the last time ya saw any good merch lately? On T-shirts it's the logo or stock image of the characters if anything at all, no real toys or figurines, no posters or plushies. Most merch is made by 3rd party ppl or fans who have to worry about being sued because the company can't just make it themselves/buy it from them to use officially.

The execs then use "poor merch sales" along with viewer counts to can shows that have a fairly decent fanbase online. Not to mention how hard it is to watch some of these shows and how execs don't understand that ppl have different schedules and can't watch tv when the execs want them to be. Combine that with poor scheduling, if these studios don't like story driven shows because they think it's hard for kids to follow the story, then maybe air them more often and in order. I remember when Toonami was on weekdays, they aired DBZ eps in order and just reset after they got to the end, y not do that with DuckTales, or TOH, or Amphibia, or TGaMM, or any other show with a sense of continuity?

Still tho', it's a shitty thing for the TGaMM writers to be promised a S3 but then have the rug pulled because of new leaders

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

Man looking at these storyboards and then what actually occured in the show. You think it was just a lack of time and budget that caused them to change them, or do you think they were THAT afraid of being accused of beiing bigots if they made Belos a more nuanced villain?

So I'm not sure what the reason was for why Belos' more nuanced portrayal in the storyboards was axed or why only the villains are allowed to be terrible. Is it possible that they were afraid of fan backlash and kept their tabs on fandom to make sure they didn't write anything that could be misinterpreted?

Honestly, I doubt it because the writing never feels like it's afraid of its fans. In fact, if anything it wants to indulge them but it's also not afraid of teasing them after people spent a whole season theorizing how the Azura books would be relevant to the overall plot. Turns out they don't, except in giving something for Luz and Amity to bond over and have Luz occasionally feel sad about her dead dad.

Also, with how open the crew were in their Post-Hoots, answering fan questions, sharing head canons, and what-not, they don't strike me as being fearful of any kind of backlash. Otherwise, they wouldn't have had these seasonal streams.

I think the biggest issues the team have are time management skills and patience; character arcs are rushed or barely there, and they seem more interested in getting to the big, flashy scenes instead of putting in the time and effort to get there. Seriously, Hunter was on the Bad Guy Team for what, two episodes before we learned of his true nature as the Woobie? Luz, Eda, and King are allegedly Found Family but they don't spend enough time together in season 1 to justify that since the crew also has Luz split her time at school since Eda can't be bothered to teach her anything. Luz and Amity start courting early on and then once they get together, they don't really do anything but cutesy fluff. Lilith is turned into the Cool Aunt and the repercussions of her actions are either ignored or rushed.

I don't think the writers are afraid of nuance since they do pay lip service to characters not being forgiven immediately, but then there's no follow through and every major character has a strong setup and so much potential only for their characterization to be gradually watered down.

And it's not just characterization, it's the world-building as well; since the beginning, fans have complained that the world-building is lacking in the show, especially with such an interesting premise. Unfortunately, we only get more snippets of information about the isles as the series progresses but it's not enough where I feel like the Boiling Isles has a clear identity like say, Wartwood from Amphibia does. This goes back to that problem of lack of patience since the show seems so disinterested in exploring deeper character dynamics outside of fan-fic tropes or even bothering to expand on the lore.

Ultimately, the show treats its fantasy setting more as a stage instead of actually exploring it and has very basic characterization with the only distinguishing factor being that it has queer people in it.

[idleglowingpixels]

talk about Collector

WHYYYYYYYYYY okay now that I got that off my chest let's get serious LMAO

Before I dive in too deep, to any other ppl reading, THIS IS YOUR FAIR WARNING IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ ANY CRITICISM OF TOH. Something that is really apparent in this fandom particularly is that a lot of ppl refuse to allow and accept genuine criticism discussions, dumbing it down to personal biases, misinterpretations of the text (or in this case, the show), and proclaiming "It's intentional that the show did that!" every time someone breathes something negative about it. This is ESPECIALLY annoying with the "Blame Disney/the shortening" nonsense -- a key skill in television writing is to be capable of working with the allotted time that the studios give you. After they were told Season 3 got cut short, they still had 11 22-minute episodes of Season 2 and all three 40+ minute episodes of Season 3 to conclude the story in a satisfying way.

Seeking and reading criticism posts outside of the general tags, ignoring warnings on posts that give forewarnings, then getting mad and upset that someone criticized your comfort show is generally an unhealthy behavior, especially if you're not in a good mental state. If you can't take people criticizing something you enjoy, and more-so if you deem it your comfort media, and feel the need to bother them because you made yourself upset reading their posts, you've got a lot of soul searching to do. That, or maybe you should log off until you can handle it.

Also, obviously, spoilers ahead for TOH, as well as Amphibia because these shows parallel a lot more than I want them to. :')

---

I have a LOT to say about The Owl House from a critical and writing perspective, and I feel like the show is EXTREMELY overhyped for what it actually is. I feel its sister show Amphibia executed much of the same/similar themes better, and that's not even a bias thing. Just from the way both shows are written, you can tell which one feels more competently structured from a narrative standpoint (and, let's be honest, which one is actually funny).

Okay enough about general opinion, let's get to Collector. From a character design perspective, GOD I love this little guy, both the reflection/shadow form and the actual form are distinct from the rest of the cast. I'm a big Sun and Moon design/symbolism enjoyer (Sun and Moon from FNAF, Sun and Blake from RWBY, Celestia and Luna from MLP:FiM, etc.) so these types of characters are always welcome. And while their voice annoys me personally it ABSOLUTELY fits them, so no matter how annoying I find it I don't think I'd want them to have any other voice.

But that, unfortunately, is the only props I can give to Collector.

The show is FULL of redeemed antagonists that range from okay (I'd like to think Amity was decent enough and Hunter was alright but definitely should have been introduced earlier so his redemption was a slow burn but this post isn't about them so I'll end this note here) to "what the actual fuck" (Idc what anyone says, there is no excuses PERIOD, Lilith's redemption was the absolute worst redemption arc I think I've ever seen AND I'VE SEEN CATRA'S), and Collector is very much on the lower end of that scale. We hardly see them overall and their character writing is rushed beyond belief -- and again, I'd like to reiterate that that is ENTIRELY on the writing team for the show. Disney and the shortening DID NOT DECIDE TO KEEP COLLECTOR IN. The writing staff were aware of the time they had left and made the decision to shoehorn them in and expect everyone to just be okay with it.

From a writing perspective, they bloat the story exponentially and 100% should have been left in the drafts or saved for future content like what Dana said she might do if she is able to through books and such. If we only get hints of the other Collectors, this one should have STAYED hints with them.

We have essentially no significant amount of time with them outside of Hollow Mind and the season 2 finale before season 3, and what we DO have of them in season 2B is so drastically different I'd consider 2B Collector and 3 Collector as two different characters entirely. And before you tell me, "They're different because sun/moon symbolism!" "They're different because Belos and King influence them differently!" etc. etc., don't waste your time. Yes, those are good explanations as to why they feel so different between seasons, but that does not make the writing of the character inherently good. Allow me to elaborate:

In S2B, of what little we see of Collector, they are extremely sadistic in nature, and while they appear childish the writing of that lack of care for others is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. And it seemed that way even as Belos first encountered him as Philip in the flashback episode. There, they weren't yet "influenced" by Belos and his plans; hell, he hardly had an actual plan yet.

Skip ahead to Hollow Mind, easily the best episode of Season 2 imo, and Collector is taunting Belos, mocking him and his schemes. Saying things like "Ooh, you were mad!" and "I'm starting to think you make those [grimwalkers] just to destroy them. You have fun with it, admit it!"

I cannot find any reasonable explanation as to how or why Belos would influence Collector into doing such things. Why would he want a little pain in the ass making fun of him for hundreds of years? And by his response to Collector's taunt about the grimwalkers and Hunter, "Of course I don't, Collector. It hurts every time he chooses to betray me," he took offense to their words, but kept his tone from shifting to anger as he does with everyone else because of Collector's power.

Belos doesn't want Collector thinking he doesn't like them because of their abilities, but he does want to stay on their good side for information. For knowledge of spells. And he puts up with Collector's annoyances because of that.

Essentially, that wasn't something Belos taught them or influenced them to do. All Collector knows is to adapt to their friends' behaviors, yes, but Belos is like, over 400 years old. I don't know about you, but I doubt with the way he speaks and how he's written that he would taunt his underlings in the same childish vain as Collector, and do so enough for Collector to pick up and mimic that behavior.

Now to the finale, their appearance is pretty much just them getting duped by Belos and sent into the depths of the titan skull, where King ever-so-conveniently finds them, making the pinky swear that releases them.

They maintain that mocking attitude even after Belos betrays them, calling King "boring" for calling them Mr. Collector and feeling generally disinterested by King before he promises a game to play. And even after they're released, they continue the attitude further with the whole "I remember someone throwing me off a bridge...I'm not angry, though!" bit, only to send Belos to his "death" moments after, deeming it as a game of tag. They've seen Belos kill grimwalkers first hand, fully aware that their lives mean nothing, and replicated the behavior by returning the favor to Belos (or so they thought). Their lack of care continues when they nearly try to do the same thing to the Hexsquad, people who didn't even do anything to them, before King stops them, changing the subject before they can cause further harm.

After stopping the draining spell, Collector continues the destructive maliciousness they have all the way to the end of the episode, and that's the impression of them we're left with. They were sadistic, uncaring and childish, but only learned the behavior of killing from Belos -- even though Belos didn't actually die, the intent was to kill him, and they were fully planning to continue with the Hexsquad.

And then...We get to Season 3.

Just a side-note, I think it's a safe assumption to say the first 2 seasons of The Owl House took place between roughly 2 months, as Luz was outside waiting to leave for a summer camp after the school year ended before initially arriving in the demon realm. Going off of that assumption, in Part 1 Luz returned to school as she returned to the human realm, presumably in late August/early September due to her living in Connecticut. And since Part 1 takes place in the timespan of about 3-7 days, the last day being Halloween, the timeskip only brought us about 2 more months ahead. Keep this in mind.

After Luz and co. return to the demon realm in Part 2 -- objectively the worst episode of the season -- we already see King's influence on Collector since they turned everyone into puppets instead of actively injuring or killing them when they don't comply. Still bad? Yes. But from how it looks in Part 3 with the Hexsquad, it seems more like the puppets' consciences are just comatose or an alternative to sleeping, maybe in a REM-like state. But of course, the show didn't have enough time to explain that further over all the nonsense in Part 2.

Anyway, when we see Collector in Part 2, they're still being childish, which is unfortunately the only thing that stays consistent with this character. They then say two lines that were the most god-awful writing decisions I've seen in a hot minute, and this show is STOCK FULL of really bad "this is peak humor LAUGH" moments like this.

They say that Eda has this "cool aunt vibe" and such, which sounds like one of those "character dynamics/tropes" posts on social media like Tumblr and whatnot. It comes off as really pretentious in the writing, and was shockingly unfunny to hear for a show that calls itself a comedy. Another line that frustrates me, more-so for lore reasons, is when they ask Odalia to make pizza bagels, when it was previously stated that human food is inaccessible to Luz during her time in the demon realm. So not only is it contradicting that whole thing (Eda actively struggled to find food for Luz that she could eat), how would they or King even know what one is or how to actually make one??

It seems like a small point to get heated over, but it once again feels like one of those stupid one-liners that one of the writers thought was the funniest shit they've ever thought up and kept it in because they knew die-hard fans would just laugh it off and brush it off as a joke, and that the writers forgetting about Eda's maternal struggle to feed her adopted kid is Disney's/the shortening's fault because they're at fault for everything wrong with the show...and not the ppl who wrote it.

Regardless, this whole shtick is extremely out-of-character for the way they had spoken in Season 2, and from what I can recall (I'm not gonna rewatch the entire show for the sake of a single post), King never talks like this. Luz does around him, but he himself doesn't talk like this.

I've discussed with friends before about this, including Robin (the one who asked me to talk about this), but from Part 2 onward Collector gets the same Luz-like writing every character that gets redeemed suddenly dawns out of the blue. I started calling it luz-ification, but it doesn't just happen to Collector.

It happened to Hunter, where his more cocky and ego-centric dialogues from early 2A was dropped for a more "comedic" personality and an anxiety-ridden character, though it's later eluded to that his cocky attitude was him masking his true self, so I try to keep it to that perspective.

But this happened to Lilith as well, where she suddenly started acting like "Cool Aunt Lilith" IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING HER ADMITTING TO CURSING EDA AND ALLOWING HER CAPTURE. WITH NO CONSEQUENCES TO BE FACED OTHER THAN THE CURSE SPLIT WHICH IS HARDLY UTILIZED IN THE SHOW.

(Side-tangent: Characters facing little to no consequences for their actions is something that goes on so much in this show but this is long enough already and I really don't like talking about this shit for long 'cause I could be using my time on better pieces of media, I'm sure there's plenty of posts explaining this point elsewhere by ppl who enjoyed TOH more than me)

Hell, it even happened to Amity for a hot minute. For some moments in the show she's written really off-character and saying things that just completely contradict how she's typically written, but then goes back to the more sassy and balanced character later on.

This post has gotten WAY longer than I wanted it to be, but to keep me from spending even more time on this, Part 2 shows a drastically different Collector, to the point that they do not by any means have the same character writing as they had before. They got luz-ified. Using social media lingo they couldn't even have access to in canon, and being written to quite literally just sound like a mini-me of Luz with the more obnoxious undertones of the childish thing.

Point is, they mimic these behaviors of Luz that they wouldn't even have reasonable access to learning from, because she's in the human realm for almost all the time after their release. It only makes sense in Part 3, when Luz is actually there for them to see her behaviors in action, but even that is so contrived and rushed that it feels unrealistic and narratively unnecessary. Remember what I said before about the timeskip only being 2 months? Yeah, 2 months isn't nearly enough time for a character to fundamentally change who they are as drastically as Collector.

Now to the part where I talk about Amphibia really quick and mention how it did the whole "having an alternative threat acting as a mini-boss" thing a million times better than this shit ever could. King Andrias, paralleling Collector for this particular scenario, is shown relatively early on that he's an antagonist to the audience. It's later revealed as a plot twist not to the audience, but to the characters, who least expected it. They don't waste time trying to throw off the audience with red herrings or telling its audience "He's not a bad guy, he's totally not going to be evil later on." They just show the audience he's evil and keep the story moving.

He's given enough time to feel like this ominous, looming threat, and True Colors masterfully showed how messed up this guy is and the lengths he is willing to go to ascend to the Core and cheat death, just as the souls within the Core had. His motive to avoid death and return Amphibia to the world-conquering ideologies from centuries' past is what made him such a love-to-hate villain. And the motive to cheat death in a children's cartoon? Metal as hell. The Core also parallels Belos here, and further on in Season 3, being the one manipulating Andrias through his fear of death in order to make him do what they want him to.

In the third season, Andrias continues his work by the Core's demands, only giving up in the final battle when he's read a letter from someone he had considered a friend long ago, which admittedly didn't have much set-up but it was at least the focus of an entire episode prior to the big pre-finale.

At the end of the series, he's shown to have moved on, allowing himself to age naturally and to stop using technology to keep him in pristine condition for eternity. He accepted the natural cycle of life, and in turn accepted that he will come to pass one day. He wasn't a perfectly written character, but considering what it's being compared to? Leagues better.

Like I said before, TL;DR, Collector is the bloatware of The Owl House's plot. They were shoved in as a last minute addition because they were the writers' "precious bean silly goose little gremlin blorbo" that they couldn't just keep in the drafts with the rest of the collectors. So instead of maintaining what little integrity the show's writing had to begin with and follow through to the end with the Day of Unity plotline being the series finale (Which was VERY OBVIOUSLY WHAT THEY WERE GOING FOR), they essentially made a side quest distraction that dragged the story on for longer than it needed to, wasting the audience's time.

I'm not mad that the Collector exists, I just find that their inclusion in the series did more harm than good for the writing. The show has a serious issue with giving screentime to unnecessary characters like the miscellaneous Hexside students, giving characters too much screentime (The biggest offender for this is Amity, there's more episodes centered around her than Hunter, Willow and Gus combined) and not giving ACTUALLY necessary characters enough screentime (Looking at you, Emerald Trio).

I really want to rewrite TOH, and if I feel the need to rewrite a show, it's usually because there's too much fundamentally wrong with it for me to give it anything higher than a 6/10 overall. But I've already got a whole AU and a whole rewrite in the works for two other series I care wayyyyy more about, so that's gonna have to be left to other writers in this fandom.

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If this post is how you've stumbled upon my page, hi :') Feel free to ask me about more or to elaborate on smth I said here if you want clarification, but if you check out my intro post and see another mutual interest we have maybe ask me about that instead of TOH please and thank you

[lexuamzaled]

I'm watching Ladybug and I'm ranting about Zoe and Chloe

I've just seen the episode where Zoe, Chloe's sister, is introduced. And, to be honest, I hope I'm wrong, but it seems like it's a character made up exclusively to have a "good Chloe" while still having Chloe as the "bad Chloe".

I don't think every bully cartoon character must be redeemed just for being a cartoon character. Gravity Falls kinda did it, Amphibia kinda did it, The Owl House kinda did it, etc. In those cases, the bully character was redeemed in a way that didn't really forgive their actions, but, more importantly, was understandable in its context. Pacifica Northwest was a bully because their parents made her a bully, and in the end she's more or less able to overcome that in her own way. Sasha saw the errors in her ways and tried to make up for it when she realised she screwed up too much. But all these examples do not mean that every show must redeem their bully. It's ok to not do so. But.

As far as I've seen both in the show and in some statements from its creator, Chloe will never be redeem not because she's a bad person, but because she's the bully, and the bully will never be a good person because people don't change and bullies will never change, no matter anything. And, yes, most people in real life do experience that, that bullies are still bullies, that most of times they don't change, and it's ok to represent that in cartoons.

But, that being true, why did they give Chloe a fake redemption arc that, in the end, had no impact on her outside the moments while that fake redemption arc was taking place? Just, why? It doesn't make sense. A fake redemption arc for a villain can work, but the way it was done it feels less that the character was evil after all and it feels more that the creatores were forcing her to be evil and only evil.

But that fake redemption arc made something interesting: it gave us a good Chloe. A potentially good Chloe. And that could be an interesting addition to the cast. And, correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's what made them create Zoe, Chloe's half-sister. Because Zoe is like Chloe, but without being a bad person and being allowed to have a personality. In the episode she's introduced, she experiences a redemption that feels similar to those of Pacifica from Gravity Falls and Amity from The Owl House: she's from a bad family with bad people and she acts bad because she wants to be accepted by her family, but learns via a new friend that there are other people who can and will accept her for who she is, not for how they want her to be. Zoe is Chloe if Chloe could have a true redemption arc.

I found this quite annoying, and I hope I'm wrong, because I liked the possibility of kinda redeeming Chloe, maybe not fully, but, in a way. Forcing her to confront her mistakes, her wrongdoings, the fact that she's always been a horrible and terrible person with everyone around her. LET HER CONFRONT THAT, IT'S EASY DRAAAAMAAAA! But, no, they couldn't lose their loser bully, because Chloe is a bully to be bullied by the show, because maybe laughing at someone it's ok if you make that person be ridiculous. And instead of exploiting possible drama, character conflicts, CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT, they created another character, a new Chloe, a better Chloe, Zoe. This way, they could let the good Chloe be a character while they made the bad Chloe the butt of the joke forever and ever and ever.

I've just seen, as I've said, Zoe's first episode, in Season 4 of Miraculous. I don't know what they did with her in both the rest of S4 and in S5. I'll find out eventually, because at the end I really enjoy Miraculous, because it's fun, even if it's frustrating with its plot and lack of character development. But I wouldn't be surprised if they turned Zoe into the new Queen Bee, taking Chloe's place on the Miraculous Team. Because, again, maybe I'm wrong, but I do feel that Zoe is the good Chloe made to still have Chloe to be bad.