#i understand why people queercode when they do

[fate-motif]

listen i know. i know. it’s because i’m an adult and i know about gay history and to perfectly ordinary straight people, when jankom pog has a holoprogram where he beats up leather-weaing tellarite biker hunks in an alley it’s just street fighter references

but are we just gonna gloss over the fact that in his spare time jankom pog beats up and gets beat up by leather-wearing tellarite biker hunks in an alley and am i the only one picking up implications from what they put down

[lgbtlunaverse]

This page from the adventurer's bible makes me want to cry

Like basically any neurodivergent dungeon meshi fan, I see a lot of myself in the Touden siblings. But I was blindsided by just how much I suddenly related to Falin in this little comic from the adventure bible's complete version.

It's about the Touden siblings' differing relationships with their parents, and why Laios still holds their treatment of Falin against them, while Falin herself doesn't.

We know that Falin was isolated and ostraziced by their village after she saved Laios from a ghost, displaying her uncanny affinity for magic. Her parents, instead of defending her, sent her away, which angered Laios so much he ran way himself before Falin even left for magic school, hoping to make a living so he and Falin could live together alone.

He tells Marcile this, but when she goes to Falin, she says she sees things differently. Her father sent her to magic school to protect her form the rest of the village without having to cause a conflict. He didn't explain that, and we actually see her burst into tears when he says it.

But, well... Laios was gone for a year before Falin went to magic school, and everyone else in the village avoided her. The understanding Falin has with her parents to me looks like one borne out of necessity, she literally didn't have anyone else to talk to.

And this is where we get to the page that made me want to cry

Like I said, I relate to the Toudens because I'm neurodivergent myself. that feeling of suddenly realizing you're disliked, but not knowing what you did wrong or what you should have done instead? Yeah... that's one I recognize.

When I was around 9 years old, the same age Falin is in this comic, a bunch of kids in my class decided to make a "game" where you lost if you touched me. It was basically the 'cheese-touch' from diary of a wimpy kid, except I always had it and couldn't pass it along. They'd pretend I was poisonous or disgusting and run away from me screaming or gagging. The point was to make fun of me. But my autistic little 9 year old ass thought "Oh I get it! It's tag but I'm always it!" So I... played along. Running at a boy and having him fall on the ground screaming in fake pain because you tapped him is, in isolation, pretty funny.

It wasn't until months into the "game" that I realized it was meant to be meanspirited. That the reason I was the one who was always 'it' wasn't an arbritrary rule but the whole point. Because I was weird and gross. I wasn't in on the joke, I was the punchline.

Falin may have come to understand her parents' intentions, but she didn't always. The adventure bible actually tells us that she at first didn't even notice that the rest of their village disliked her. She clearly knows now, but she had to be told. So when her mom tried to exorcise her, she just saw it as an activity she got to do with a mother she usually didn't get to spend much time with because of her poor health. It's only Laios who notices something is wrong.

(Sidenote, Laios being hyper-aware of people's poor attitudes towards Falin but completely blindsided when he's in the same spot, like with Toshiro, is also very relatable as an eldest sibling)

It probably also took Falin months, until after her brother had left and she had no one but her parents, to realize why her mother had been doing all those things.

And I know they're not the same. Even misguidedly, Falin's mom was trying to help her, not make fun of her like those boys in my class. (Though, as a queer person who also cares a lot about the queercoding in Falin's storyline, a parent trying to 'exorcise' their child of a fundamental part of them the parent thinks is evil or corruptive? yeah... that's not perfectly wholesome)

But do you know what I did, when I finally figured out the game was always meant to make fun of me?

To me, it looked like I had a choice.

See, those boys eventually figured out I didn't understand that they were being mean to me. I'd laugh every time I managed to catch one of them, I was visibly having fun. And while it no doubt only made me more of a weirdo in their eyes, they never informed me that I shouldn't be enjoying myself. That the point was for me to feel hurt.

So now that I did know, I had a choice. I could either get upset, and let the insult land as it was supposed to. That wouldn't stop them, because making fun of me was the original goal. Or I could ignore it and go on as usual. They had already accepted that I didn't get it, and they weren't gona stop me from having fun, so why should I?

And the thing is that I had... one friend, in that whole class. One person who actually liked talking to me and hanging out with me. I was lonely. And the 'game' provided me with another social interaction, mean-spirited as it was, that I desperately needed. And it was so delightfully simple. Navigating actual friendships as a kid with autism and adhd was so fucking complicated, and I'd never know when I might break an inivisble rule. But I knew the rules to the game perfectly!

Sometimes, if I was chasing one of them, the others would trap him and hold him down so I could tap him. In those moments it actually did kind of feel like I was playing with them, rather than against them. And it didn't change much, they didnt start actually liking me. But they were willing to roll with the fact that I wasn't upset, and I took advantage of that because I needed to.

So you can look at Falin seeing the best in her parents as her being naïve, but I look at this page and I see myself, at first unable to differentiate between playing and being made fun of. And then later, when I did see the difference, deciding not to get mad about it because that'd mean losing that social interaction, and I couldn't afford to.

Like I said, Falin probably first realized this in the year she spent with her brother gone, and everyone else avoiding her like the plague. If she refused to talk to her parents, like Laios did, she'd have no one left.

I see a lot of people relating to the fight between Laios and Toshiro. that frustration when you realize someone you thougth was your friend actually hates you, and they never said anything, never gave you a chance to fix it because you had no idea that you were even doing something wrong! And I can see that, too. But sometimes, when people don't fully hate you, it feels better to go along with the pretending. Because adressing it won't fix it. Because the problem isn't a specific behaviour, it's you. And if they're willing to tolerate you, despite the fact that it's you, then you'll take it. Because other people do hate you, so this is the best you'll get.

[miwiheroes]

Bylers, we need to talk about something…

I’ve been having a lot of thoughts pertaining to what will happen in season 5 relating to byler recently, as have we all, but I’ve also been wondering about the audience’s reaction to it if it happens.

Actually, i’ve been more concerned not about the GA’s reaction, but our reaction to how they handle it. I just want to say beforehand, that I might be projecting my issues with negativity and conflict (i’m a very very optimistic person it’s rough being on social media these days lmao) and I also very much believe that they will make byler canon in some way or another. It just makes sense with the narrative. But I fear we will never be happy with how they do it and we never learn from our previous mistakes lmao

Before season 4 came out, I sort of was a fan of byler, but i was very very casual, as in I didn’t interact with many fan theories, I wasn’t on twitter (still not on there because I have a phobia of negativity eek) and I wasn’t on tumblr, I would occasionally check out the edits and fanarts and I think I was just Aware of it, because I always root for the gay ship to happen ofc..

So when season 4 vol. 1 came out I was excited about the direction they were taking byler, and I could see that it was finally canon that Will was gay, rather than theorised. When season 4 vol. 2 came out, I had not been on sttwt or st tumblr during the time between the volumes because I had other fandoms prioritised around the time. I watched the Van Scene with my parents and suddenly I was acutely aware of just how gay they were (because I always get scared of watching anything queercoded around my parents lmao).

By the end of season 4, I was like YES! this season was amazing for a byler set up next season, although i was more focused on other characters too. I then kind of saw the byler script stuff but not the full extent of it, and I saw many edits and fanarts of them but that was it!

Now it’s 2024 and I have a major hyperfixation on byler, (due to the season 5 bts and the fact stranger things keeps popping up on my fyp it’s crazy) and now I’m on byler tumblr (not twt tho .. sorry) to find all the evidence I can and get all hyped up for s5! But I’ve also seen old posts from around 2022…

Literally every single one was extremely disappointed from season 4 vol. 2, and I was confused, seeing as I was very happy with it and I liked byler (my fave byler scene is from vol. 2 and no it’s not the van scene). If I’m being totally honest, and I might get some hate for this, I think we all had wildly, wildly high expectations and the disappointment was our own doing.

I personally never really judge a show before it’s finished (obviously not sitcoms and shows like that) unless it has really really terrible writing ofc, but I always choose to reserve judgement until all the character arcs are wrapped up and I can look back and see why things were made to be.

I understand the whole anger with Mike’s behaviour towards Will and how Will was treated poorly by him, but isn’t that the point? Mike loving Will back in season 5 would then be more satisfying after all that. It’s a set-up for the next season, no?

I don’t know why or how people thought that Mike would suddenly resolve all his internalised homophobia or something during that season, and I reckon if the whole season had come out at once instead of two volumes (i hate the two volumes thing sm omg) people would have been much happier because we wouldn’t have had time to create insane theories or unrealistic expectations that, let’s be real, were not in line with what we have seen so far with byler.

So, I just want to say that I’m a little afraid for season 5, because I know that byler will likely be canon, but people just won’t be happy because it won’t be in the exact way that they had theorised. Sorry to break it to you, but you, random person on tumblr, are not a screen writer. More specifically, you’re not a screen writer for stranger things.

I think it’s fun to theorise at the moment, but I just want to remind people that this pattern has happened before and we never learn? Like, none of our theories are coming true. Not one of them. Did I theorise the exact van scene? Did I theorise the part at the end where Mike grabs Will’s shoulder? No. But am I happy with those scenes? Hell yeah.

So on the build up to season 5, I just want to caution everyone to not assume that specific things are going to happen when it’s just a result of an echochamber (such as the milkvan breakup scene being right at the beginning or the painting being brought up). You’ll just be angry for no good reason.

The only reasons I’m personally going to be angry with how they handle byler is:

1. If it’s not canon and Will’s love goes unrequited/ he has another love interest somehow…

2. If either of them die after having a relationship during season 5 (bury your gays is stUPID)

3. If one of them dies before the other gets to tell them they love them/ kiss

4. If they get together without Mike apologising (it could be in literally any way, obvious or not) for his poor behaviour.

But that’s it, the rest of it is literally up to them.

Hope ur not too mad, but it just needed to be said.

[pinkeoni]

Oh. “Zombie Boy” is a homophobic nickname

I guess this should’ve been pretty obvious. I mean, Will is a confirmed gay character, who is walking around town and having a mean nickname constantly hurled at him. Clearly there is some queercoding in that.

But does that mean that the nickname is homophobic in universe? If that were the case, why not just call him homophobic slurs in the first place?

The nickname Zombie Boy always was kind of strange to me as well. Why make fun of a kid for coming back to life? Wouldn’t that be a cool thing? Maybe it’s a little odd, but why be so mean about it?

Unless it’s not the only thing they’re making fun of him for

TW for discussion of rape below cut

To understand the intent behind the Zombie Boy nickname, we need to go back to Will’s dissapearance in season one. Our boy Troy lays it out pretty plainly what everyone in town thinks happened to Will.

Not just that Will was killed, but clarified as “killed by some other queer.” The emphasis on sexuality adding an implication to his statement. What Troy is really trying to say is that Will was raped and then killed by a gay man, otherwise why bring up sexuality at all?

And to be fair to Troy, that is kind of what happened.

But of course the town doesn’t know this. The story that was told is that Will only got lost in the woods. That was the story published in the Hawkins Post, so that’s what everyone believes, right?

This is the version of events that Lucas tells Max, and he is immediately met with skepticism from her. Lucas then tells Max not to ask Will about it because he’s very sensitive about it.

I’m not saying that the town believes that there is something supernatural going on, but rather I’m thinking that the people of Hawkins at least suspect that there is something about Will’s disappearance that is not being talked about openly. Let’s not forget that the “Zombie Boy” note that Will receives in his locker is a desecration of the news article sharing his story.

So here’s what the town initially believed happened: Will was kidnapped and raped by a gay man before being thrown into the quarry.

And here’s what the town knows: Will went missing and was found in the woods before being hospitalized. He is very sensitive about the topic and doesn’t like to talk about it. After being released from the hospital, he is now occasionally pulled out of school early for doctor’s appointments—

Oh.

I mean, it is any coincidence that all of this is happening while Reagan’s name is plastered all over town? Is it just a coincidence that the anniversary of Will’s disappearance falls right on Reagan’s reelection day?

And just to cut through all the shit and stop being vague, I’m talking about the AIDS epidemic of the 80’s, and yes I think that part of the town believes that Will has it.

I recently read a post from @emblazons that struck me with just how laden the AIDS metaphor is in season. To quote the post as best I can, there is something described like a disease attacking Will’s body and slowly killing him, and the Reagan administration government scientists are trying their best to prevent the truth from spreading and view the possible death of a queer person as a non-issue.

Starting to think about it through this lens, a “zombie” is the perfect metaphor for how Hawkins now views Will. He isn’t technically dead, but they suspect he has a disease with an incredibly low life-expectancy at the time, so he’s essentially a walking corpse.

The nickname doesn’t start and end at simply making fun of Will for having a disease. What do zombies do? They try to bite and turn other people into zombies.

The town doesn’t just see Will as someone who has been infected by someone else with an illness, but as someone who has been infected and is going to spread his illness around.

The rhetoric regarding queers as people who spread disease and kill continues in season 4, when we see Eddie reading the article that links sodomy with satanic practices, violence and murder. We then go on to see the entire town blame Eddie and his group of “satanic” outcasts for spreading death in the town. This attitude is certainly not lost on Hawkins, and the show doesn’t shy away from showing it.

The way that characters in the show use and react to Zombie Boy match this as well. There is a certain level of vitriol that comes with Zombie Boy, and the nickname is what leads Jonathan and Will into their extremely coded conversation about being a freak.

If Zombie Boy is an intentionally homophobic nickname, then does that mean that in this scene she's actually saying...?

So I actually don’t think that Snowball Girl is being intentionally homophobic here (although, saying what is essentially “Hey f*****, wanna dance?” is still CRAZY)

I think it’s less realistic if the entire town is in on this conspiracy and more believable if say, the nickname was started intentionally as a homophobic jab by some of the townsfolk, but is ambiguous enough to be picked up by more naïve kids like Snowball Girl who may not realize the actual meaning behind it. It may seem like it’s only about his ressurection on the surface, but when you peel back the layers you see just how offensive it really is.

Using a vague nickname is also very intentional by the Duffers as well. If they wanted to be subtle about Will’s sexuality before later confirming it, then having a more ambiguous moniker rather than just having the entire town call him an evil queer.

Even if the town really is just making fun of him for coming back to life and nothing else, and there isn’t actually this rampant rumor spreading across Hawkins about Will spreading disease, the heavy coding and intention from the writers is still be there.

[imrightwereyouleftme]

yk I don't fully understand why people always say "listen to real queer artists instead of acting like Taylor is one" which is all in all just a not so good take bc you are instantly diminishing all the work Taylor has done to queercode her music, to add tiny bits of queer history into her lyrics and visuals to show us that she is queer. completely diminishing the fact that I, and most likely many others, learned about things that have no real place in todays modern world because of its "openness". (I can't be the only one who had no clue what a hairpin drop is before she sang about it)

but that's not the point I'm trying to make right now. the point I'm trying to illustrate is that most queer artists, are still small artists. they are individuals that rarely ever get played on the radio, and when they do it's one song that went viral on tiktok or whatever so it had gained enough streams online or enough sales ig so that the radio stations decided they'll play it.

I'm not saying don't support small queer artists, artists that (looking at our world right now) will never become mainstream because they are queer and they are writing explicitly queer songs.

and this goes past small artists. if we look at artists that came out after they had already been established, you can see a clear dent in their popularity.

Sam Smith was a big deal, even when they identified as a gay man, they were socially accepted. Their songs were played up and down, they were in the charts with every new album they dropped. but then they came out as non-binary and made an even more explicitly queer album and suddenly people acted like it was the devil's work.

Lil'nas'x had a break through with old town road, at that point most people didn't know he was gay. Then he dropped Montero as an explicitly queer man, stating his sexuality with an admirable amount of pride. But the only people that celebrated him, were queer people, and not even all of them.

Then we look at artists that have been in the game for longer. Look at Miley Cyrus, or Demi Lovato or hell, even Jojo Siva. All of them are constantly mislabeled by people or just straight up get their queerness ignored (especially Miley). They are also constantly being ridiculed, no matter if what they did was a bad thing or not. People always find things to hate.

So, my question is, why? Why do I have to want to need Taylor to come out just so you understand that her music is just as queer as her? Because we see very clearly what homophobia and worse so the blatant transphobia does to people in the industry.

There is no mistake that Taylor will have a dent in her popularity when it comes to most of her fanbase if she ever comes out, simply because these people are homophobic as hell. And we all know it, we see it every day in our inboxes, in comment sections, in posts that get mistagged on purpose. And you'd be a fool to think she doesn't see it. Because if she didn't, she'd just fool herself.

In conclusion, do listen to queer artists, elevate their voices, but don't forget about how many people are still residing in the closet because they fear it's gonna be the end of their career. closeted queers are still queer!

[orphiclovers]

Just rediscovered spyjh scenes I had COMPLETELY forgotten about in the reincarnator island arc and I am THROWING UPPPPPP AGHHHHH they're soooo. How is there STILL so much material for me to talk about in regards to this insane rarepair. Ok.

This scene, first of all.

The sky distorted?? Dramatic and cunty as hell SP entrance, as always. YJH's sponsor cameo cool...

Then he takes YJH to the same place above the Star Stream where he took KDJ before sending him to the 1863rd arc. This is just a thing he does I guess.[It has been a long time, puppet of the Oldest Dream]<- I love it when SP talks like a queercoded anime villain, I really do. His petname for YJH <3

Second dramatic as hell enterance, even more cunty than the last. Also he just...shows up when YJH CALLS???? despite the probability cost?? even dkos can't do that in 0th round.

Anyway they had multiple conversations off screen between this screenshot and the last... 'playing along with your schemes long enough' SP was totally stringing him along by drip feeding him cryptic and unhelpful information, like he does in the next part of this conversation (while also taking the opportunity to mock him, he's such a cunt <3)

[What are you curious about, oh Puppet of the Oldest Dream?] Oh, he is enjoying this so much. He loves YJH relying on him for answers, that's why he comes at his beck and call.

[Maybe. Maybe not.] [You think you can understand it after hearing the answer?] [Let's just say that such a scenario would've been fun to observe.] He's such an asshole why does he TALK like that. KDJ comments on it too the first time they meet. Does he genuinely not know how to talk to people after all these years or is he immitating an anime villain on purpose. What's wrong with this guy (complimentary).

[magicrainbowkitties]

Some of y'all never learned the difference between queerbaiting and queercoding and it really fuckin shows. And even more than that some of y'all will sit there and call something queerbait just because they don't kisskiss.

Characters should not and do not have to actually kiss and/or fuck nasty on screen for a queer and/or romantic reading of their relationship to be valid. Not the least of which reason is that not every relationship such as that involves kissing or sex, but more importantly:

Relationships are more than that. You know this. I know this. We wouldn't be shipping people otherwise, or be so invested in the relationships between these characters we love.

Why is a movie where the characters of the same gender love and care deeply for each other and complete each other's worlds, and yet never kiss or fuck, bait, while the one where the characters are underdeveloped and have no real reason to be together or even like each other than because the plot says so but they kiss and fuck like rabbits NOT bait?

Queerness deserves nuance, it deserves different shit, it deserves messy and toxic shit, it deserves to be scrutinized and analyzed, rather than simply consumed and sanitized.

Would the former film have a kiss/sex scene if the world it existed in didn't force it to be a product in a violently heteronormative society? More than likely. But we can't say for sure.

Queer media has survived since forever thanks to queercoding, which was used to let representation of queerness and queer culture exist AT ALL under homophobic corporations. Queer PEOPLE have survived their actively hostile homes and communities thanks to codes and signals that identified each other and where was and wasn't safe.

That legacy won't go away, even as we gain more acceptance in society. Even if the day comes in my lifetime where queer people all over the world are free to live out our lives in peace and comfort without our very lives and bodies being targets for violence and repression, that tradition STILL wouldn't go away. Because it's INTERESTING and FUN and DYNAMIC and GOOD CHARACTER WRITING.

Not every deeply loving and caring relationship is romantic, just as not every buddy-buddy relationship is platonic. There's so much grey area, so much to look through, to analyze with different lenses, to understand about how we conceptualize relationships.

Queerbaiting is NOT just a stand-in for queercoding you didn't like. And it's not bait just because they didn't kiss or get together or fuck. Queerbait is when something is MARKETED to queer people, but doesn't actually have any queer rep in it at all.

Does that mean some queerbait is queercoding in and of itself? Yes. But not all.

But when it's characters building a deep abiding love for each other over the course of the story, one that changes them and how they see the world, regardless of the fact they don't actually kiss or fuck or say "you are now my partner/spouse..." I'm sorry, that's not bait. That's a love story. And regardless of what kind of love it is, platonic, romantic, sexual, eldritch, whathaveyou, that's what queer stories ARE.

Especially when the characters in question are literally canonically queer, but their relationship isn't made EXPLICITLY romantic. Like guys. Really?

Please read anything at all about the history of queerness in your medium of choice before you start shouting "queerbait" at things that are literally made to be complicated.

[pinksmonkey]

The Ultimate Byler Evidence/Analysis List (Part 2)

If you missed part 1, here it is: Part 1

100. They Are In Love

101. Songs Associated With Mike And Will

102. We've Seen This Plot Too Many Times

103. Byler Isn't Far-Fetched

104. Byler Endgame Makes So Much Sense

105. Pocketgate

106. Hosegate

107. Love This Detail

108. Phallic Imagery In Season 4

109. I Didn't Notice The Queercoding

110. So Unserious

111. It's Supposed To Be About Love

112. How You Doing?

113. Mike Is Not Into Girls

114. Mike And Lucas Parallel

115. Not Love At First Sight

116. Mike Is Protective Of Will

117. To Illustrate How Weird This Shot Is

118. Yeah, Imagine

119. Still Dizzy

120. The Biggest Byler Proof For Me

121. These Scenes Happened Less Than 5 Minutes Apart

122. Mike Is More Attentive To Will Than Any Other Character

123. Oh, Love At First Sight

124. They Said I Love You

125. Byler And Heartstopper Parallels

126. I've Been Chasing After Some Other Kid

127. Jancy And Byler

128. Mike Feels Like He's Not Worthy In His Relationship

129. Why So Many People Complain About Mike's Character

130. That Boy Is In Love

131. Mike's Attention To Will And El

132. Mike's Self Acceptance

133. Mike's Playlist Is 10x Gayer Than Will's

134. No Homo Though

135. This Masterpiece

136. Mike's Guilt

137. El's Superhero Identity

138. It's Time To Switch Things Up

139. Why Byler If No Byler?

140. Mike's Playlist In A Bisexual Interpretation

141. Will's Playlist Analysis

142. Mike's Love Drives The Story

143. Will Deserves Love

144. From Anti-Byler To Pro-Byler

145. Mike And Locker Rooms/Bathrooms

146. Genuine Question About The Cabin Scene

147. Mike Literally Blinded Himself

148. It's Not Even Subtle

149. The Best Thing I've Ever Done

150. Will Deserves Better?

151. Will's Feelings For Mike Are Crucial To The Plot

152. Will's Love Is Beautiful

153. It's A Pattern

154. Mike Is Deliberately Queercoded

155. We're Friends

156. The Writers And Their Sense Of Humor

157. They Still Don't Understand Personal Space

158. There's No Point To The California Storyline If Not Byler

159. Let's Start A New Party, You And Me

160. Mike's Insecurities

161. They Told Us Exactly What's Going On With Mike

162. Find Someone Who Looks At You Like This

163. Heartstopper Parallel

164. Lettergate, Younger Mike To Older Mike

165. Everyone Is Disappointed

166. I've Been So Lost Without You

167. Mike's Gayest Scene

168. Reactions To Hugs And Kisses

169. No Platonic Explanation

170. They Have To Be Joking

171. Lighting Analysis

172. Hidden Expressions

173. The Papa Script

174. Refuting Anti-Byler Points

175. El Likes The Idea Of A Boyfriend

176. Are We Watching The Same Show?

177. I'm Not The Only One In Love With My Best Friend

178. Mike Is So Hopeless

179. Will You Be Like My Brother?

180. Bedroom Decor

181. Will Doesn't Want "Better"

182. Best Friends

183. The Truth About Hosegate and Lover's Lake

185. The Culture of Bylerism

184. Talking About Fictional Teens and Sexuality

186. Mike's Sexuality Is Tied To The Narrative

187. Not Production Errors

188. Good Writing And Bad Writing

189. Shared Shoes And More

190. Smalltown Boy Coded

191. Trying To Act Normal

192. It's Called Foreshadowing

193. More To Their Relationship Than Friendship

194. Refuse To Believe This Was Unintentional

195. There Has To Be An Important Reason

196. Byler Rain Fight Vs Mileven Breakup

197. The Eyewitness And Dawson's Creek Parallels, Too Gay To Be Straight

And unfortunately Tumblr will only let me add 100 links per post, so when I've posted part 3 of this list, I'll link it here: Part 3

[breakingstanding]

I am actually devastated over Michaela… not because I care about Michael or the book, but if they’re making Francesca queer, there’s no way they’re making Eloise a lesbian (which she SO clearly is!). I saw the spoiler of Franny and thought okay they can make 2/8 queer, and then I watched and saw they made Benedict queer too! I just can’t see them doing 3, especially 2 women.

It’s so disheartening because so many people have been rooting for sapphic eloise and I think hardly anyone was wanting Franny.

I think i’m more upset with this than if none had been queer because like ugh we were SO CLOSE. We could’ve had it all. like imagine how happy we could all be right now. 😭

they’ve been setting up queer benedict and eloise since season 1 so I just don’t understand why they would do this. (sorry for venting to you- none of my friends that’s watch are caught up yet)

Always happy for a vent, and I definitely feel you! I'm personally really excited about Francesca's storyline because I really liked her this season and Michaela is EXTREMELY hot lol - but I'm also frustrated that it's the sister we've had as a side character for one season who will be getting a queer love story, and not the one we've been invested in for three seasons.

Ultimately I think the frustration we are feeling is more because this is reflective of larger issues that always pop up in fandom than being upset about not getting a storyline we wanted for a character (although I'm not going to pretend that's not a factor too!) a) There's such a pattern in fan spaces for queer people to see themselves in a character and to recognise clear queercoding, and then to have straight people come in and condescendingly say "not all characters with x trait have to be gay" - as if we have an overabundance of queer characters and are trying to get our grubby gay hands on more. So much of the discourse around Eloise amounts to people saying "not all feminist characters have to be lesbians" which is crazy to me because WHERE are all these shows that are supposedly full of feminist lesbians?? Please tell me I would love to watch them!

b) Straight fans will get all different types of characters and plotlines for the heterosexual couples and then act like queer people are being greedy if we ask for more than one for us. Just within Bridgerton there have been three straight main couples already - and of the queer siblings we've also gotten to see a cute romance between Francesca and a man, and will likely see Benedict fall in love with a woman (this is not to diminish their queerness, obviously bisexual stories are incredibly important regardless of the gender of the love interests, more just pointing out the sheer quantity of m/f love stories straight fans get to enjoy).

It absolutely sucks that we exist in a TV landscape where instead of being excited about what looks to be a delightful relationship between Francesca and Michaela we are instead mourning the loss of other another character's queer potential. It's absurd that we are so rarely allowed to have multiple sapphic characters (who aren't each other's love interest) on the same show - particularly because in real life queer people tend to flock together!

The feeling reminds me of being part of the 100 fandom nearly a decade ago. I distinctly remember when it was leaked that Clarke and Lexa were going to kiss. The sapphic side of the fandom were definitely very excited - but there was also this strange sense of dread too. I saw countless posts of people bemoaning that now that she was gay they were definitely going to kill her off - and they were right! Bury your gays was such a common trope that we could see it coming a mile off.

This has felt like a very similar reaction. Queer fans spend a lot of time dealing with subtext and are very good at recognising tropes and patterns, and we know that the chances of Netflix allowing one their tentpole shows to have two sapphic main characters is slim to none.

I hope we are wrong and things are changing for the better, I really do.

I think the best thing we can do now is swallow our disappointment and make sure we support Francesca/Michaela fiercely to prove that there is an audience for sapphic stories.

[bloody-wonder]

do u have any book recs for morally bad characters? not grey or ambiguous or whatever. i think id use ianthe as an example of what i mean

far be it from me to decide which character is "morally bad" or merely grey so for the purposes of this rec list i focus on characters who do bad things for selfish reasons. however, ianthe, beyond just being a villain-esque character, has that iconic persona(lity) which alas only few of the characters mentioned here share. so keep that in mind in case you wanted a list of ianthes😅

okay so when i think ianthe i think unhinged girl books, specifically boy parts by eliza clark. ik ik i keep mentioning it in every rec list but truly there's no other character who reminds me of ianthe more than irina sturges, minus the sword. boy parts is sometimes described as american psycho for girls and while i haven't read that book yet i can confirm that characters in bret easton ellis' other works (less than zero and the rules of attraction) are quite morally bankrupt and entirely unlikable, especially compared to the cast in the secret history by his fellow bennington graduate donna tartt who are themselves toeing the line between grey and irredeemable. that is, if such finer distinctions matter to you🤷‍♀️

dark academia typically features protagonists who are more or less evil which is true for joanne harris' gentlemen and players as well as its sequel different class. cracks by sheila kohler is another example - it's a short and weird book about girls in a boarding school commiting shocking atrocities. aside from we have always lived in this castle by shirley jackson, which i have already mentioned, books like tender is the flesh by agustina bazterrica and we need to talk about kevin by lionel shriver are bridging the gap between litfic and horror and focus on people who range from morally ambiguous to utterly despicable and frightening (yet fascinating). if you want to go all in with this latter vibe you could try killing stalking which is an extreme horror/dark romance bl manhwa. needless to say: always check the trigger warnings.

if hannibal lecter is someone who fits your understanding of "morally bad" you should try the og book series by thomas harris. fair warning tho: they are not queercoded like the show😅 two more series following the crimes of a nasty but compelling guy are the joe goldberg books by caroline kepnes and the tom ripley books by patricia highsmith. in the latter series i will admit i only like book one which stands on its own pretty well and after it i'd rec trying highsmith's other books instead - for example, strangers on a train. another thriller author to check out is christopher rice whose melodramatic and somewhat depraved early works feature deliciously problematic side characters. start with the snow garden and see if you like his style. my last thriller rec is for your own good by samantha downing which is about a bad teacher abusing his power to punish students he doesn't like.

switching the gears to historical fiction and classics. perfume: the story of a murderer by patrick süskind is the life story of a man who by all accounts is bad but if so why does his perfume smell so good? what does he put in there?? another perfect example of a character blurring the line between morally grey and black is the protagonist of thomas savage's the power of the dog. both books have very good film adaptations which i recommend as well.

if you want to try and tackle a dusty tome foregrounding wicked antiheroes consider reading vanity fair by william thackeray or dangerous liaisons by pierre choderlos de laclos. if you'd rather start with something shorter look no further than the picture of dorian gray, who i personally think is "darker" than just grey (ha), but if you already read it consider revisiting the classic via the uncensored edition. still shorter? then you might like another work by oscar wilde - lord arthur savile's crime. it's much more humorous and satirical, as is lieutenant gustl by arthur schnitzler - a hilarious stream of consciousness novella following an odious imperial army officer as he contemplates how to restore his damaged manly honor in the wake of another man touching his sword - not a euphemism but definitely a metaphor😅

i really struggled to choose sff recs☹️ the thing is, in your typical fantasy characters like this will either be pretty one dimensional villains or side characters with not a lot of screen time, whereas those on the main cast are rather what you would probably describe as morally grey. nevertheless, here are three recs i'm not very satisfied with: first of all, empire of the vampire's jean françois gives me ianthe vibes. so far he's a character in the frame narrative only but i expect he'll play a bigger role in the final book of the trilogy. secondly, there is a secondary villain character in the winnowing flame trilogy by jen williams who is honestly my favorite part of it and they do bad things etc by virtue of being a villain but,, maybe they're just misguided? maybe their friends and family didn't love them enough but the main villain did? i mean, who's to say🤷‍♀️ finally, the main character of lynn flewelling's nightrunner books has an evil ex who has a fun poor little meow meow arc in books 4 and 5 - you decide if it's worth reading the entire series bc of it. i mean it's pretty good old queer fantasy so it's worth it for other reasons too but yeah. you see what i mean when i say it's difficult😭

[joyswonderland1108]

Please take time to read this

Hello, i’m ranting again but ffs Army are infuriating i simply cannot.. I’m making this post for my queer people but also for my non-queer people but who support the LGBTQ community. Again sometimes i’m really bad with words, i really don’t know how to put shit out there correctly but please bear with me. 

So i’ve been on tiktok and that lovely girlie’s video popped up on my fyp (the same girlie i posted yesterday), basically the caption on the video was “Me watching homophobic “armys” throwing a fit bc queer armys find comfort in Jimin’s queercoded lyrics”, me being me i checked the comments and i come across shit like this 

The way people are so very against any of BTS members being anything but straight and like to throw the “don’t assume” stupid comment, that “they never came out” “they never said it themselves” yada yada, bitch do you even know what queer coded means? Do you know what a code means to begin with? 

People seem to forget that these men are in an environment that doesn’t allow them to just “come out” they can’t just fucking shout to the world that they’re fucking gay Patricia! 

 It’s the fact that Jimin has been dropping hints here and there to HOPEFULLY people can understand, can get the fucking message, but people are still out there wanting him to just say it as it is, they don’t understand the effort it take to fucking come out in a homophobic country in a God forsaken industry with entitled fans who can’t accept idols being non-hetero. 

It’s like people are trying their best to break Jimin’s effort in trying to “set himself free” as he fucking just said from all this bullshit, from holding back, from “HIDING” bitch he literally said that wtf do you think he’s hiding from? The monster under his bed? The muffin man in his closet? Wake the fuck up! You’re stanning a man but refuse to understand him, refuse to give him a chance to express himself without having to put himself in a tough position.

I remember sharing before this one video from a tiktoker who made a joke about how queer celebrities deal with dating questions when they didn’t necessarily come out or weren’t intending to but still were trying to drop hints :

(Matt Taylor)

It is already hard enough for queer people to be accepted in this society and people keep on making it harder for them. People saying that your own personal interpretation shouldn’t be imposed on what Jimin means, if y’all keep on acting this way when the fuck are we ever going to understand him? Are we always going to put his efforts in vain? That man simply CANNOT COME OUT and you know what? He doesn’t HAVE to either, why tf do people think he will just trust such an entitled fandom to come out to them? 

Bitches be really quick to deny the fact that they’re simply homophobic but Jan, could you please enlighten me on why tf do you get so fucking defensive whenever anyone mentions the possibility of any of these men being queer? Them assholes aren’t even ready to accept that Yoongi, the man who ACTUALLY said it, is queer let alone making effort to understand Jimin. 

I won’t say this enough, i will obviously not repeat it enough but THIS is why Yoongi said that FANS, MOTHERFUCKING FANS will understand not Army cause y’all only hold the fandom’s name nothing more. So fucking entitled and want everything handed to them on a silver plate. Now the narrative is that queer people aren’t “supposed to look a certain way” aka members who look “manly” are surely not queer. Yesterday again i came across a tiktok of a dude doing a prank to his BOYFRIEND, here’s what they look like : 

Now don’t bullshit me on “this is not what i mean when i say manly” cause i know perfectly that this is the exact image some people picture in their head for how men looking like that can’t be gay. You want Jimin to feel comfortable enough to come live often, to share things with us, to see him perform, bla bla bla but how tf can he be comfortable with your sick asses when he can’t even be given a chance to be understood, to not put him under the projector? 

People assume that you just gotta tell the world about your sexuality and that’s it, easy peasy lemon squeezy, such a happy world and everybody will be accepting yey

You don’t know the struggle of fighting to let yourself known to others without being put in a risky situation as a common person let alone as a celebrity in a very unforgiving industry, people tend to forget that it can be career threatening, so just for your own comfort you’ll have these men risking everything just so you can have that verbal validation? 

I’m going back to the term “Queer coded” It’s called that way because there are “CODES” used by a person to hint to their sexuality and if your illiterate asses could spare 5 mins to google what that means y’all would’ve been 10 times smarter. 

If you can’t support Jimin, or any member really, the right way, please see yourself out these 7 men really don’t need no more of these people as part of this fandom, it’s already hard with straight up haters and now they have to deal with supposed “fans” who can’t do shit correctly. 

So please for my queer people, let's do our best to support and let our boy know that we understand we get it and we are sending him all of our love and for people who support the community and still understood Jimin and are supporting as well, thank you, thank you so much for being amazing, thank You.

[girl4music]

I wish people would understand the difference between QUEERCODING and QUEERBAITING.

To code can be used positively or negatively.

To bait is only negative. Baiting is not good.

Referring to a creation as “bait” is claiming there’s a purposeful manipulation or exploitation of the intended viewers by the creators of that creation.

Queerbaiting is only ever manipulation and exploitation so you don’t claim it unless you’re sure of it or the creators have admitted to committing it.

Queercoding certainly can be that too if the creators for it are purposefully using it that way but not always.

To code something as queer might just be their only way of providing and representing a queer narrative.

It can be a very good thing that a show queer codes if the intention is a positive one - validating the viewers.

The reason why they get lumped together as the same thing these days is because why ever is there a need to queer code something when you can make it legitimately and explicitly queer? A valid question.

However, the storytelling in a queer narrative might benefit from something being queercoded rather than explicitly queer because there’s more nuance to it.

Therefore more depth to peruse your thoughts on.

And it can look a lot more natural and authentic than something being explicitly queer depending on who the creator is and what their intention is with using it.

On the other side of the coin….

There’s creators like Emily Andras.

Who can effectively do both and do it well.

So I’ll say it and I’ll say it again and as long as I have to.

What matters is the CREATIVE INTENTION.

Not “better queer representation”.

You won’t get queerbaiting if the intention is sincere.

If it’s sincere - use QUEERCODING. Not queerbaiting.

For the last time - queerbaiting is not a good thing. There is no such thing as “good queerbaiting”. Ever.

If queerbaiting is being committed - it’s a bad thing.

It means you - as a queer person - are not being represented or validated. You are being exploited.

Stop throwing that term around as if it means something good because it’s not fucking good!

Queerbaiting is one of the most evil things a creator can do with their creation and their characters.

For me personally - it’s the worst thing I’ve experienced and I, as a queer person, do not have to put up with it. And neither do you. So if you truly believe a show you’re watching or whatever creation you’re engaged in is queerbaiting, start protesting.

Stop accepting it as all you have or all you can have.

Because if the creator was truly sincere in providing for you what they do with their creation - you wouldn’t feel like this. You wouldn’t feel like you have to settle because, if they were sincere, they’d give you it all - or as much as they possibly could - without detracting from the storytelling or sacrificing great characters.

Likely the characters of which are queercoded.

The ones you relate to, resonate or identify with.

Creators that provide sincere queer representation don’t make this a difficulty, don’t give pathetic excuses and don’t act like throwing a bone is enough.

Creators that are sincere in providing queer representation involve all their explicitly queer or queercoded characters in everything that happens.

They don’t make them either weaker or stronger. They don’t throw drama or theatrics into their relationships for no reason. And they don’t drop screen-time for their queer characters because something or someone more “important” needs to be the focus and therefore the only time they have reserved for them is always some kind of physical intimacy baiting you in.

Sincere providers of queer representation don’t play around with their queer or queercoded characters.

They use them purposefully to represent you and validate you. Not to purposefully use and exploit you.

Please please please learn the difference and please please please stop throwing “queerbaiting” around - especially with a creation that’s legacy within the queer community is as great and profound as Xena’s - whose creators/cast/crew do what they can to represent and validate queer people to this fucking day and do not deserve to be accused of queerbaiting.

Call Xena straightbaiting. I don’t have a problem with that. It’s about time straight people feel as we do when they watch a queer show about queer characters but never get definitive representation and have to settle for one-of-the-week subplots and seriously boring one dimensional straight characters that are about as expressive as a plank of wood.

Sure, Xena can certainly be referred to as committing straightbaiting and I’m 100% nonapologetic about it.

[kitkatopinions]

It's so weird seeing conversations about rwby basically going like

Person A: "This character had a chance to be something better than they were made to be, they have so much potential and it was wasted, they should probably be a bigger role and/or more nuanced than they were portrayed in this show." Person Be: "Ummmm that character has never been anything more than what they are?? That character isn't important and/or isn't nuanced??? They don't matter??? So idk why you're complaining that they're 'wasted potential.'"

Like.....

It reminds me of the time that I said Yang and Blake were queercoded before they got confirmed in V9 and people got angry at me for it because "Just because they haven't kissed anyone of the same sex, verbally acknowledged their feelings or attraction to anyone of the same sex, have never gone on a date with anyone of the same sex, or are written to discuss being queer in any way doesn't mean they're queer coded, because we're meant to pick up on them being queer in their energy and how they talk to and look at each other without it being said out and out." It's like, do people just not bother to understand base concepts?

When rwde posters say things like "Ciel was wasted potential" it feels very weird to have people be like "Ciel was just a bit part in V3 who didn't get any real focus and never went anywhere." Because that's what we're complaining about. When rwde posters are like "hate canon Adam because he's a two dimensional badly written for and voice acted character who was never given much depth and then got written to be nothing but an abusive incel hate sink with whatever meager personality and nuance he had had in volume 3 left behind to make him a paper-thin nothing character just used to (badly) prop up the bees, but he could've been different and better," it feels very weird to have people be like "Um, Adam wasn't written to have a lot of depth and nuance and meaning, he's just some two dimensional jealous abusive ex who only matters to prop up the bees, he isn't better." That's what we're complaining about. When rwde posters say "the Curious Cat could've actually been a better character if he was a more nuanced morally gray character instead of just being a one-season villain," it doesn't even make sense for people to be like "why are you saying the Curious Cat could've been something more than a villain? THEY'RE JUST A VILLAIN!"

Wasted potential means that they could've been something better, but they aren't. When people complain that there's wasted potential in RWBY, we mean that there's things the writers could've done that we would've found better and/or more interesting. We don't need to be told that the writers didn't make them better or more interesting, we - we know that already.

Another thing I feel like is a common response to complaints about wasted potential that I really dislike and don't understand is when people respond to complaints about wasted potential by being like "I don't care about and/or dislike that character and therefore I don't think you're right that they could've been different or better." There are characters that I feel like don't need to have bigger roles in RWBY - like Sage and Scarlet, or Ooblek who I think served his purpose well and doesn't need more - but even people I absolutely hate like Junior and Cardin I think could've mattered to more characters or to the show's narrative more with absolutely no redemption required. Like, Cardin is wasted potential because he could've been used by the show as an example of a terrible person who shouldn't be a badge carrying law enforcement officer and who the girls could get expelled - instead of Cardin just mattering as Jaune's bully (a badly done arc anyway,) and only for like three episodes or so in season one. If I say I think there's some wasted potential with his character, I don't want to hear "He was only Jaune's bully for like episodes and never mattered again" because I know that, and I don't want to hear "But Cardin's a bad person" because yeah he is I know and I hate him, but that doesn't mean there isn't wasted potential for his role and his character.

It's just weird.

[quietwingsinthesky]

Final Doctor Who TV Movie Thoughts

incredibly homosexual undercurrents. why’s the master Like That. they had to be doing that on purpose. i mean, just the robes alone. he dresses for the occasion. oh there’s definitely queercoding here. also he got tardis vored. nuwho bring up that time he got tardis vored challenge. no im not being weird about it i just want him to describe to the doctor what being digested by a time machine was like. did he enjoy it. wait come back i have more things to say about the movie-

eight is a sopping wet cat. i understand why he is beloved. i too wish to wrap him in a warm towel and/or beat him with hammers. he’s adorable. he’s fun. once again, somehow they managed to find a perfect guy to cast as the doctor. how do they do that. not a single miss so far??? out of the seven i’ve met??? not one????? incredible. loved his little vest, loved his humming, loved how he had absolutely zero chill ever and did not know how to Not talk about being a freak alien man, loved that he had amnesia for all of like seven minutes for no reason.

i really liked grace and lee. grace is a great straight man to the doctor’s bouncy nonsense, and she saved the day by figuring out the tardis :D also swerved the bullet of loving that man, thank GOD. get out of there girl. you saw what his ex was like. lee is my favorite kind of doctor who character, of which right now the category is him and lucy saxon. the master’s temp companions <3 love when that awful terrible man has to play nice to achieve his goals. love when he has to bond with people against his will. also hilarious to me that lee was just like ‘no, i really am just in this cause he’s gonna give me money and power.’ and the movie says he is RIGHT to want this, just wrong for trusting the master to give it to him, so he gets it in the end. good for him. direct action.

the plot was bonkers nonsense and that made it better. so funny to me that they retconned in the doctor being half-human but it never comes up as plot relevant ever and it will never be mentioned again. the eye of harmony is <3 bless <3 so fucking stupid <3 whys it take a human to open it. why can you open it when all it seems to do is suck up planets and time lord lives. why do they even have that lever. there’s like a horrifying implication here that time lords would keep a human onboard just so that they’d have a way to open their tardis’s eye of harmony. same energy as having a canary for your coal mine. i know this wasn’t intentional but it’s just fucked up enough that i almost want it to be canon despite it being so stupid, if only because it adds another layer to the doctor mostly seeming to gravitate towards human companions. but probably best if, like a lot of things this movie decides should be canon, we ignore it.

we shouldn’t ignore the master being able to goop people with his spit though. that’s hilarious. i wanna see them bring that back in modern who. look, any master would do BUT. i feel like for the best effect we gotta bring mr simm back so he can spit goop on people like a feral beast. here’s how saxteen can still win-

what else. what else. guys. that’s a really fun movie. it was Not good. but it was amazing. you get me? i had a great time. structurally it was a mess, the story was in shambles, but i do not care. all the characters were fun, the eighth doctor is fantastic, and i loved it. its probably gonna be a comfort movie of mine from now on. its just so silly.

[the-patchwork-girl-of-oz]

i am not trying to attack you i just genuinely have a question. i feel like people headcanoning nessa as aroace is a little weird because that tends to be a stereotype for disabled people. i understand that there is some evidence for her being ace (in the book) but i don’t see the aromantic part. just wanting to probe your brain about the nuance of it / what you think. again, a headcanon is whatever and i know it’s personal, just wondering your thoughts

It’s really not personal I’d love to share :)

I think it’s more for neurodivergent people than it is for physically disabled people, but it’s also very common for neurodivergent people to be aspec. Personally as an aspec neurodivergent person, I don’t care as long as you don’t use it as a way of either infantalizing neurodivergent people or implying that they don’t have any feelings at all. I don’t know about physical disabilities though. My head cannon doesn’t really have anything to do with her disability, aside from maybe this meme because the bookverse makes it really ironic.

I see Book Nessa as aroace because she doesn’t seem interested in a partner, I don’t really see her with anyone, and over all I just kinda get that vibe from her. She seems like she’d be better off single to me.

For the musical it’s a little different, I just kind of have it as a sort of headcannon/au/what if scenario kind of thing because I can see her being aroace and Boq being gay (though I feel like he’d be openly bisexual in the book) and them being best friends because it would be nice to see them in a healthy platonic relationship rather than a toxic romantic one.

Boq is gay because of the queercoded relationship between the tin man and scarecrow in the original books. Of course I ship both tincrow and Gelphie so I think they’d make sense as a couple because Boq doesn’t historically have very good luck with women so maybe he was destined for a man the whole time (and I think romantic rivals to romantic partners is such a funny dynamic).

Nessa, I just don’t see her with anyone romantically and I think she’d he better off single. Plus something about her that’s just so aspec. She just gives me the energy of the flag colors if that makes any sense (Not to mention she can become the strong, independent, single ruler of munchkinland, which I think would be good for her).

In the books, they come from the same part of munchkinland and share a religion so they have a lot of culture in common.

I think that their religion or culture (or the way that they learned it) probably values getting married and starting a family so they both want to be in “traditional” heterosexual marriages.

Boq is more focused on finding himself a proper wife that his family would approve of (he’s kind of a daddy’s boy in the book I believe) than actual love, which is why he tries so hard to win over Galinda. He tries to convince himself that he really is in love with her because she’s beautiful, rich, popular, charming and comes from a respectable family, so how could he not be love her with all his heart? This is why he agrees to ask out Nessa. She’s beautiful, charming, and comes from a respectable family, so why couldn’t he learn to love her?

As for Nessa, she’s the same case as Boq, she’s desperate to find a husband and make her family and the unnamed god proud, but she also just wants someone to love and pay attention to her because she’s been coddled all her life, but she’s never had a real friend. She thinks romance/marriage is the only way that anyone will ever love her in such a way. She convinces herself she wants romantic love when really all she wants is a friend.

Ideally, they would come out to each other at the Ozdust and then over time they’d have to learn to accept themselves and they form a close platonic bond over it.

Though it can be switched. Boq can be aroace, Nessa can be lesbian, or they can both be gay or both aroace. This is just my personal interpretation.

Sorry for the ramble <3

[alarrytale]

Hi Marte. I saw a tiktok vid about Kit being forced to CO. It was essentially saying that speculating about someone's sexuality is bad because it's their private business. It mentioned Shawn identifying as straight and yet people label him as gay/bi. Which could easily apply to Louis too. I see this opinion mostly with young people, that if someone states they're straight then we should believe them and not question it. But these people are treating celebrities like regular people when they are closeted for different reasons. Celebrities are usually closeted because of money but the average person is usually closeted because of fear. Kit's situation was unusual but the vast majority of celebrities who have CO have said themselves that they were manipulated into hiding their sexuality. They were made to feel bad about it. Billie said multiple times that she was straight and yet when she CO she said people mistook her queercoding for queerbaiting. She was trying to communicate to her own community that she was one of them and they weren't getting it. Other celebrities have talked about this too, Dove was one. That people didn't pick up on her queercoding. Just because someone is pressured by their team into hiding their sexuality from the straight gp it doesn't mean that they're trying to hide it from their own community, hence why queercoding exists in the first place. To let people know you're one of them. These people who preach about how sexuality speculation is bad don't seem to understand the concept of queercoding. A celebrity, who has their sexuality speculated about often, wouldn't queercode and engage in queer culture if they didn't want to communicate with their community. Don't young people understand or pick up on queercoding anymore?

Hi, anon!

I think you're right that people don't understanding why people in the industry is closeted. Some apply the same reason they themselves are (or were closeted) to the celebrity. Some people still think it's bad or something less to be queer and think that people speculating is to hurt their favourite. Some people are protecting the celebrity's closet for them because they want their fave to succeed and they don't think they will unless they stay closeted.

Most closeted celebrities are only closeted to the public, because they believe it's neccessary to succeed, advance their careers and make money. Most celebrities wouldn't be closeted if that wasn't a barrier anymore. For a lot of celebrities it isn't a barrier anymore, like Billie. It's a strength and it can actually help you advance your career.

Celebrities know how to balance the queercoding they do and stay in the closet. Some are very closeted and others are in a glass closet. It depends on their situation and how they manage their closet. Trust the celebrity and the choice they've made. There is no need to ignore queercoding and not point it out. If celebrites are queercoding they need fellow queer people to pick up on it and they need that degree of self-expression within their closet. They need the validation and find acceptance in the queer community. Fandom shouldn't guard the closet door for them. Fandom can risk further closeting the celebrity and making the closet harder for them to deal with when their queercoding isn't picked up on and hushed down. If something is visible to you, or information is widely known, you're supposed to see and know about it. Believe me, they do know how to shut something down if they really want to. They've got PR teams for that very reason.

Like i've said before, there is a difference between outing someone and a celebrity feeling pressured to come out. With Kit it was the latter. He was cast on a show with an out queer cast (at least the roles playing queer). The queer community were ecstatic to finally get a queer cast playing queer people and representing most of the lgbtqai+ spectrum. Kit was the only one, or the most noticible one at least in a lead role, to not state his sexuality while playing queer. That breeds speculation. He wasn't giving the queer community representation. He is straight passing. He was seen holding hands with a woman right when the show came out, making everyone think they'd cast a straight man (or at least a straight passing man, who is in a het relationship) in a queer role. That will create reactions within the queer community. So he was put under an enormous amount of pressure to make a statement. If he didn’t want to come out i think he could have handled this differently. But he was very young, is still very young. So it's very understandable how he reacted.

It isn't and it will never be wrong to speculate if a celebrity is queer. Because being queer isn't bad and straight isn't the default.