#kadinlarsaltanati

[ottomanladies]

Thanks for your last answer, buddy. But I was expecting to hear your own explanation as you are studying it for a long time. However, it is okay. Can you please tell us what is the stipend of sultanzade and hanimsultan?

Oh well, I definitely haven't studied this for longer than Leslie Peirce, who is a professor. I put her quote in my answer to you because I think that's the reason why Handan's stipend was comparably lower than Safiye's, who kept receiving 3,000 aspers a day until she died.

I don't know about Sultanzades, but Hanımsultans are a complicated matter: in general, their stipend depends on whether they're related to the reigning sultan or not, and whether they're princesses of the Enderûn (Inner palace) or Bîrûn (Outer palace).

(Enderûn means that they had lived - sometimes in their lives - in an Imperial Palace — Topkapi or the Old Palace —, Bîrûn that they had never lived in an imperial palace and were, therefore, third-generation princesses)

During Süleyman I's reign the general rule was that adult and married daughters of sultans received 200 aspers per day and granddaughters of sultans received 100 aspers, it didn't matter whether they were related to the Imperial family through their father (and were, therefore, Sultans) or through their mothers (and were Hanımsultans)

Examples:

(table is from Les Perles de Nacre du Sultanat by Juliette Dumas and is dated November 1555 - November 1556)

I know the table is in French but I think it's quite self-explanatory. For the sake of our argument, we'll take a look at the first row only: émoluments, which are the fixed stipends

Both Şehzâde and Şâh Sultan were daughters of Selim I's and therefore Süleyman I's sisters: they receive the same stipend. What is interesting is that both Ismihan Sultan and Ayşe Hanımsultan receive the same stipend: the former descends from a prince, the latter from a princess (the aforementioned Şehzâde)

(notice that Ayşe Hanımsultan is called Ayşe Sultan in harem registers. As I have said many times, Süleyman I's reign is a period of both revolution and stabilisation for women's titles)

Now onto princesses of the Bîrûn (in the same time-lapse: November 1555 - November 1556):

We're going to focus on the last three princesses. As you can see the one descending from a male has a slightly higher stipend than the two descending from a female.

The hierarchy of princesses in the XVI century was, therefore:

daughters of sultans

granddaughters of sultans

great-granddaughters descending from a male (ie. a prince)

great-granddaughters descending from a female (ie. a princess)

As you can see for Mihri Hatun, the daughter of a Hanımsultan did not have a title but still received a stipend from the Imperial treasury. Mihrî Hatun's descendants were considered complete commoners and did not have a tie to the Dynasty.

Fast forward to the beginning of the XVII century and we can see that the hierarchy has become more complex:

this table is dated May 1603 - May 1604, between Mehmed III's and Ahmed I's reigns

As you can see here, the first three princesses — Gevherhan, Ayşe and Fatma — are all daughters of sultans but Ayşe and Fatma are daughters of the reigning Valide Sultan and therefore receive a higher stipend. Dumas incorrectly identifies Gevherhan as a daughter of Murad III's with an unknown concubine but she's actually Selim II's daughter (which is why she's mentioned first after the two valide sultans— she's the eldest princess alive)

What we need to focus on — for the sake of our argument — though are the princesses I have circled: Ayşe Sultan, widow of Ahmed Paşa is actually Ayşe Hümâ-Şâh, Mihrimah's daughter. Hatice Sultan, is the daughter of Gevherhan and therefore granddaughter of Selim II.

Technically, Hatice and Ayşe Hümâ-Şâh have the same rank: they're granddaughters of sultans. So why the different stipends? Ayşe Hümâ-Şâh benefits from her mother's "aura". Mihrimah Sultan was the "greatest princess of the empire", with a lofty stipend of 600 aspers a day during Murad III's reign (when she died). For context, Safiye received 700 aspers as Haseki.

No princess would ever earn so much.

The 6 şehzâdegân (which just means 6 princes/princesses) may be Mehmed III's daughters, who were unmarried and therefore their stipends were low (in very practical terms: as they did not have a household to manage because they lived in a room inside Topkapi, they didn't need a higher stipend)

The hierarchy of princesses at the beginning of the XVII century was, therefore:

princesses born from the haseki sultan who subsequently became valide sultan

the other princesses, born from non-haseki concubines

granddaughters who benefit from their mothers' rank

the other granddaughters

great-granddaughters

As Dumas concludes:

Contrary to the Ottoman principle of blood transmission, which (officially) only takes into account the paternal lineage, the importance of mothers predisposes their daughters to a certain preponderance over their half-sisters. The hierarchy also tends to produce a stronger distinction between daughters and granddaughters (between sultans or hanım sultans) and the third generations, put a little jumbled up in a sub-category that annihilates any individual specificity.

If you're interested, this is what a harem register looked like:

In the XVI century, the stipend of Şehzades was 100 aspers when they resided in the Palace. I guess the stipend of Sultanzades paralleled those of Hanımsultans.

[haticesultanas]

sorry for knocking you here! I miss your writings so badly and also anxious are you okay or not! When you will be available on Kadinlar salatanati account? When we can get your writings regularly and asking you questions? Hope you will return to us as soon as possible! Take love! <3

i'm so sorry but i'm not really feeling ottoman history at the moment, i'm just so busy and studying so hard so... yeah. i really don't feel like talking about ottoman history at the moment

i still love it of course but we're just taking a break, the ottomans and i

[ottomanladies]

hey! have u ever look on Baron Mollad"s portrait of Sultan Osmans enthronement ceremony where he also portrayed Mahfiruze on the left side of sultan Osman? Isnt it surprising and shocking as we know Mahfiruze had no part in ruling of her son because she was dead by that time? The most shocking thing is he was contemporary person. whats your opinion about this? And was Mahfiruze a sultan during ahmed"s tenure?

So, the painting is by an anonymous artist. Baron Mollard was the Austrian ambassador. According to Sotheby's, which sold the portrait, "[t]his painting is presented to us through the memory of the artist’s own personal observations. He must have been accompanying Ambassador Mollard, whose presence at the ceremony is confirmed by the renowned Ottoman historian Von Hammer"

Baron Mollard is the man on the left, below Mahfiruz, and wearing distinctively European clothes.

Sotheby's also says that the painting was actually made during Murad IV's reign and that it was based on the artist's recollections of the event.

It is definitely a strange painting because that's not how sultans were "crowned". The valide sultan was not present, "normal" subjects were not present. It was done inside Topkapi Palace... unless we're talking about the sword girdling ceremony here but it's still something in which the valide didn't participate so I don't understand how he could have seen her (other than the fact that she was probably dead; I mean, multiple ambassadors call him an orphan...).

I would love to hear Tezcan's opinion on this painting since he studied Osman II's reign pretty extensively.

There is no indication that Mahfiruze was accorded the title of sultan during Ahmed’s reign.

[ottomanladies]

Hello! How are you? Hope you are doing well! In btw, I was just wondering into the ottoman history. What is meant by "Imperial Funeral"? Is their any narration about it? Please do write!

It's a funeral fit for a sultan or a member of the dynasty. Like Nurbanu's, for example:

The funeral procession was also of the magnitude accorded to a sultan. Murad, in his black mourning robe, led his mother’s coffin on foot up to the front gate of the palace, where he mounted his horse and trot behind the procession, with his viziers, commanders, and the ulema behind him. The black eunuchs carried the Queen Mother’s coffin on their shoulders from Nurbanu’s palace in Yenikapi to her final resting place. Selaniki relates: With all the magnificent ulema, honorable sheiks, and functionaries of state, all on foot along the sides of the coffin, and the Padishah, Protector of the World, clad in a robe of mourning and in tears, coming from behind, the procession reached the holy mosque of ancient Sultan Mehmed Han—may he rest in peace—where the public was waiting. After the funeral prayers were recited, the Exalted Padishah, Protector of the Religion, left for the Great Palace, while the grandees of government, ulema, and sheiks carried the coffin toward the Great Ayasofya and buried her in the nearby holy türbe of Sultan Selim Han, whom God has taken into His mercy and forgiven his sins—may he rest in peace. Until the completion of the forty days of mourning, the grand viziers and chief judges of the empire did their prayers without interruption, never neglecting to visit [the grave] twice a day. The Exhalted Qur’an was continually recited from beginning to end, prayers and litanies were said and, endless bounties and limitless nourishment were distributed as alms to the poor and abject. May God take into His mercy Your Valide Sultan [991/1583] ! The funeral ceremony for the Valide Sultan was indeed striking in its intensity and ceremonial grandeur. Unlike former Ottoman queen mothers, Nurbanu was buried alongside her husband, in Selim II’s mausoleum, located in the prestigious Hagia Sophia. The floor of the türbe was covered with precious vases containing the rarest of flowers brought by the highest ranking pashas, thousands of sheep and cows were lined up for ritual slaughter, and prayers were called continually from the minarets of all the principal mosques of Istanbul. That the funeral procession was depicted in miniature is a significant fact in itself, as only the most important imperial events were likely to be put into this iconic medium in those times. [...] Morosini adds that Murad made sure that all the great functionaries of state attended the funeral services in the forty-day period by sending observers to report to him any neglect on the part of his subordinates in this regard, while sequestering himself from the pages, comedians, and buffoons during this period.  — Pinar Kayaalp-Aktan, The Atik Valide Mosque Complex: A testament of Nurbanu’s prestige, power and piety

[ottomanladies]

One more question. What is the relation between Mihrimah and Safiye during all the time? Is there any detail about them? Thank you.

According to the French ambassador Germigny, Ayşe Hümâ-Şâh (and her husband Semiz Ahmed Paşa) and Safiye formed a political faction opposite to Nurbanu's during Murad III's reign.

Unfortunately, I don't know whether Ayşe Hümâ-Şâh was following her mother's path or not.

[ottomanladies]

Hello! How are you? Hope you are fine! I have a question, will you answer me? Exactly when did "veli ahad" terms were started being used for crown prince? we know that early ottoman sultans usually didnt announce the name next sultan from their child, so there was no official crown prince. Exactly from when was this custom started?

I couldn't find a history of the title but I would guess it started being in use when the succession stopped being open and became based on seniority. The actual concept of Crown Prince didn't exist in the Ottoman empire until much later.

That said, the only one I have constantly seen be referred to as Crown Prince (Velîahd-i Saltanat) is Abdülaziz's son, Şehzâde Yûsuf 'Izzeddîn Efendi

[ottomanladies]

thanks! btw any information of daily stipend of halime and handan during their husband"s period? and what is the possible reason of Handan valide sultan"s poor salary during his sons tenure? I would love to hear your own explanation! :)

According to Peirce, it was 100 aspers.

Still according to Peirce, that was done to curb her power:

In reaction to his grandmother Safiye’s domination of his father, Ahmed appears to have deliberately downplayed the valide sultan's role, and perhaps lowered his mother’s stipend accordingly. -- The Imperial Harem