#let me be clear: we don't need jensen's say so for destiel to be a valid and highly supportable interpretation of canon

[torturedpoetemotions]

Jensen on Destiel

Okay! So we're always getting "Jensen doesn't like Destiel and said it wasn't real one time years ago" thrown in our faces by bitter no-lifes who can't just let other people enjoy things. So I thought it'd be fun to compile a list of all the times Jensen talked positively about Dean and Cas's relationship!

Right now it's just a list of things I remember from being in this fandom since 2011. Eventually I will add links to sources, video sources wherever possible. Watch this space!

(Also, if there's something that isn't referenced here, feel free to reblog or reply and I'll add it to this post! I want to grow this post as big as possible so we can always remind ourselves how little the one or two comments antis constantly reference actually matter, especially given how much of this comes after those comments were made, indicating Jensen has long since changed his mind.)

Straight from the Jackles Mouth

Jensen talking about Dean and Cas's relationship and how important it is to Dean.

Jensen talking about the confession scene, Castiel's goodbye, and he, Misha, and Dick improvising the handprint.

"Dean has no taste, clearly."

"What are you looking forward to tackling this season?" "Cas."

Jensen talking about he and Misha watching and sharing fan reactions to the confession.

Jensen talking about asking a crew member to film the confession on his phone so he can remember it as Jensen and not only as Dean.

Jensen talking about a lot of his reaction being cut out of the confession scene's final edit.

Talking about Dean and Cas's relationship transcending human understanding (yes I do count this, he was trying to do damage control after Jared's homophobic rant).

Saying Dean wasn't making any decisions in the confession scene, which emphasizes that Dean was not rejecting Cas by not being able to say anything back in the moment.

Saying after Cas was gone Dean was thinking "I didn't give him anything. I should have said "I love you, too."

Saying if s15 Dean (who was LITERALLY SO MAD AT CAS HE COULDN'T LOOK AT HIM for half the season) could give s4 Dean any single piece of advice, it'd be to keep the weird angel around because he'll be the best friend Dean's ever had.

Talking about Dean and Cas's reunion and how he hopes we'll get to see it someday. It would be a big hug and then "can we talk about that good-bye a little bit?"

-

Fan Encounters

"I live it" in reference to Destiel fanart.

Signing Destiel fanart, switching his pen to match Misha's where he'd already signed it.

Choosing the Lovers tarot card for Destiel

CasDean 4 Lyfe photo op

Calling a Destiel kissing fanart the papparazzi shot

[wellofdean]

So in my ongoing efforts to say nice things about Supernatural and, as @luckshiptoshore said yesterday, "reclaim this nice, gay show" together, and also probably because I listened to Bruce Springsteen earlier today while I was thinking: why is it that this particular love story has me like it does? Why can't I let this Destiel thing go? I mean... I watched all the recent queer love stories and as much as I enjoyed Good Omens and OFMD, they just don't take up real estate in my soul like Supernatural does -- and that's not a decision I made, it just is. I don't know about you guys, but my little rages choose me.

Anyway, I was thinking -- it's probably not just because of queer representation or whatever, and I don't think it's because I want to see dudes be tender -- I think I ran out of that form of interest in the life of dudes awhile ago, but yeah, Bruce Springsteen. Born to Run. He says "I want to know love is wild, I want to know love is real" and I felt like it pretty much hit the nail on the head for me, somehow.

It's been a long time since I have felt moved by a het romance story. I feel like I can no longer believe it when the roles are so pre-packaged in the tropes and trappings of what was sold to me as idealised love in my younger days. And, like, I am Gen X, so it was pretty gruesome out there when I was learning how to want love -- the power of compulsory heterosexuality was strong, and the shit that was sold to us all as ways to love and be loved were pretty gross, just watch any romantic comedy from the 80's or 90's.

I think I love Supernatural so much because of the way Dean plays the role of a standard issue dude, and postures like he is a stereotypical red-blooded American dude, but it's so transparent that it isn't him. I don't know if it's just Jensen things, or if it was consciously done, but I love how unconvincing Dean's act is, and how clear it is that he is a wounded child whose own real desires and needs have been beaten out of him somehow, and I just love the way the real Dean and what that guy wants slow rises out of him as the story goes on, until he's choking on it, and visibly swallowing it down. For me, the queerest thing about Dean is his pain, his aching loneliness, and his sense of failure at being what he thinks he is -- a violent man who only knows how to kill, and I love Dean's moments of clarity, moments when he speaks from his own soul -- when he tells Cas he's sorry, tells John he has a family, tells Chuck "that's not who I am" are just everything to me.

Both Dean and Cas are victims of conditioning and coersion -- Dean trying to be his Daddy's perfect son, and being manipulated by Chuck, and Cas horribly violated and brainwashed repeatedly for millennia in heaven -- and they love each other in defiance of conditioning, because love is wild, and it's the product of their freedom.

I feel like ALL actual love eschews force and arises out of freedom. All real love is specific and weird, and is co-created in the space between lovers from what is most real in them and in that sense, all real love is queer in some way in that it is not part of the big social project of subjugating what doesn't comply. I feel like a lot of people lead lives of mindless compliance and that a thing that's wonderful about queer people and queer community is that we work against the grain to honor what is truest in us, whatever that is.

I guess I just love that, on Supernatural, the kind of love that saves the day is the kind that grows wild, like a weed you can't kill, out of more than a decade of choosing each other, again and again, and choosing to fight coercion and conditioning. Love that just fucking refuses to comply, and in fact, cannot comply, because non-compliance is it's very nature. There's something so hopeful and beautiful about that to me. I want to believe in it, and I do.

It's also why, after ALL THIS, in the context of that narrative, Dean is incontrovertibly queered, and anything else is just straight up narrative malpractice.

[incarnateirony]

Are you telling us that Jensen broke down during the confession to a point, he actually mouthed the words Me too? Or was that already the plan given to him but later they decided to backtrack?

close, ish. and i can't exactly needle the finest angles down to the point of semantics since i don't exactly have a microchop up jensen's ass, sources be damned.

so to clarify: It was not scripted.

However, it's hard to say what was "planned", minding the season long stunt Dabb and Berens were pulling vs Eugenie and Singer by last second note games. We can't confirm or deny how far they specifically intended to run it, beyond the fact we know they were running the ball against schedule and budget restrictions as their own gas until covid fucked them.

But we do know that Jensen, who just kinda tweeted it out, yeah. broke. during the confession. Again, read how he seperates the Then and In That Moments versus the Following Shot, where the most he clarifies is sobbing but then he goes back to the In That Moment, and never clarifies further the secondary take, same way he didn't the finale question about What We Were Originally Going To Do or however he phrased that.

Basically, remember how jensen admitted staring at misha he forgot his lines. i need everyone to understand how high production one script draft read ackles forgetting his line and going 404 error is, itself, a thing. And it's true, in that moment, dean wouldn't know what it was. Brother, family, someone he loves as much as Sam he doesn't want to let go and should have said it even then, regardless of the shape it was in. And jensen did lean into that brother interpretation.

but once he sat there on the floor and understood dean's torn heart he had a different view, and I'm going to need you to look back at the Sept 2020 Brazil leaks, the Latam dub and the following interviews about the right translation (from transcript, not og script alone), the ADR on that episode, and listen real close to the Portuguese version and realize what is heard under the birds is not his portuguese actor. It isn't entirely clear, but listen to what jensen said at con, listen to the dubs, and realize jensen had a hot mic who made the cut to some international countries that ran with it.

that was neither scripted or planned. The breakening of jensen ackles falling screaming into the goddamn destiel hole wasn't really some machiavellian scheme berens planned as much as an inevitability.

so again. just like his roadhouse ending vs the tweaks he's making to fix it now, he has his own take on how this all needs to go now, and he's not going to scream the whole twist on stage 2 episodes in.

[sunglassesmish]

huh. Jensen does say "in that moment" quite repeatedly. I guess I'm holding some hope to that, maybe I'm a massive clown or maybe I'm reading something off people's unspoken words but er... Can you please think of me if (and that's a big if, I know) something like this become true?

Don't feel the need to answer this in any way although I won't mind if you did. I just wanted to leave my hopeful and somehow uncharacteristically certain prediction on this matter, and I wanted to do that to you because I felt like you would not just dismiss it without giving it a cursory read nor consider this too seriously. Just let it wander in the mist of your deeply vast subconscious and come back to it if anything even remote to this comes true in the next... six months. That's what I'm asking.

Just to be clear, what I'm reading: Jensen is extremely cautious about being explicit on how Dean thinks of his love to Cas after the confession & face-in-hands scene. I (while risking immense ridicule from what seems to be the majority of the current fandom) think this might be because there's something in the prequel about that, and it may be that Dean came to realize that his love to Cas was romantic (not necessarily sexual) after he passed the initial shock of Castiel being gone and him losing someone who's "like" his brother.

Fits nicely with how he never really answered the original question, "what would have Dean said to Cas if he had the time to process what Cas had said?" (= what would Dean have thought of Cas' confession after some time? = exactly what Jensen's trying to avoid answering, multiple times by now) and instead answered "how he played Dean in that moment."

i also thought he mentioned in the moment a little more than i would expect. i mean i honestly think dean wouldn’t be able to process that much information at one time especially knowing that his best friend was about to be taken from him forever and you’ve just found out about it. and they were already in such a tense situation.

and after that i think that would probably be the biggest regret of his life. not saying anything to this man who confessed his love for him and left him forever, and he couldn’t even say anything back. he didn’t really get a proper goodbye, which wasn’t rectified in the last two episode’s besides the tiny ‘cas helped’ which was 😕 i mean at least that meant he was out of the empty but it just left more questions than answers.

and considering jensen will never be done with dean, as he has said himself, and likely supernatural too. i mean, the prequel having dean in it speaks for itself. jensen hasn’t accepted dean’s death, and rightfully so.

though i don’t expect there to be anything destiel in the prequel, i do believe cas may be there in some capacity. and just this last weekend jensen said ‘when we do the reboot’ and ‘when we come back from heaven’ so i know he isn’t done with cas’ story either. he doesn’t plan to expand the spn universe solely with the winchesters. so i don’t doubt we’ll get cas back someday.

perhaps not destiel in the prequel, i think personally i’d be getting my hopes up a bit too high for that. though if we see/hear/hear of them interacting that’s definitely okay with me.

[carryoncastiel]

Ich habe 3.821 Mal im Jahr 2022 etwas gepostet

30 Einträge erstellt (1%)

3.791 Einträge gerebloggt (99%)

Blogs, die ich am häufigsten gerebloggt habe:

@wigglebox

@becauseofthebowties

@doctorprofessorsong

@ne8ula

@alwaysanoriginal

Ich habe 3.110 meiner Einträge im Jahr 2022 getaggt

Nur 19% meiner Einträge hatten keine Tags

#jensen ackles – 367 Einträge

#misha collins – 311 Einträge

#destiel – 249 Einträge

#spn convention – 209 Einträge

#spnwin – 182 Einträge

#video – 169 Einträge

#destiel fanart – 160 Einträge

#wwdits – 154 Einträge

#spn fanart – 131 Einträge

#castiel – 121 Einträge

Longest Tag: 137 characters

#there was so much flip flopping afterwards about him not being in it or maybe he was but no he was supposed to but then not because covid

Meine Top-Einträge im Jahr 2022:

#5

Okay folks, since we're approaching October and that means the release of The Winchesters I want to make something very clear:

I am excited about this prequel. I'm looking forward to finding out what happened to John and Mary before they apparently got mind wiped and forgot everything. I wanna see Carlos and Latika and all the other new (and old?) characters we're gonna meet.

Maybe it's gonna suck, maybe it's gonna be amazing. We don't know that yet. But I am here to see it for myself.

Now here's the thing:

No one is forcing you to be excited about this show.

No one is forcing you to watch it.

If you've already decided it's gonna suck and you're gonna hate it - good for you. Make an anti tag and shit on it to your heart's contend in a little corner where I don't have to see it.

But I'm already annoyed at people reblogging posts about the show, from blogs who are obviously excited, and saying in the tags how much it's gonna suck.

Let me remind y'all that we can all see your tags. And it's incredibly rude when you just want to be enjoying something and people instead of just ignoring your post feel the need to constantly remind you that they hate it.

I'm gonna be using the #spnwin tag for all The Winchesters posts. So you can block that tag, unfollow me or I will block you next time you think I wanna hear your shit talk.

Thanks and have a good day.

213 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 7. September 2022

#4

Don’t know about you but I really like how the title looks

214 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 19. Mai 2022

#3

Folks, what are we using as an abbreviation of The Winchesters? tw is kinda impractical 😅

419 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 19. Mai 2022

#2

Nothing but the truth (x)

823 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 29. März 2022

Meine #1 des Jahres 2022

Vollständigen Eintrag ansehen

863 Anmerkungen – Gepostet 19. Mai 2022

Hol dir deinen Tumblr-Jahresrückblick 2022 →

[livebloggingmydescentintomadness]

hi I usually love ur takes n some of them have literally meant a lot to me when I was struggling to find myself n somewhat still am but not this time. there's absolutely no need to even try to defend the rich texan man jus cus disappointment isn't a new thing for u guys who've been in the fandom for years. horrible behaviour w/ fans need not be normalised under any circumstances n there's just no need to say 'oh the rich white man mustn't have heard the question or the crying he's not like that.' No. Just no. The solution of going in w/ no expectations may be rational but that's not what happened right. We fully expected to be disappointed wrt destiel n I personally expected a full jomophobe panel tbh but not this shit w/ the grieving fan & girl!jack. if ppl are calling him out on being shitty I absolutely don't see the need to call it an overexaggeration on our part. Sorry it got too long. Sorry if I've hurt you in any way, not my intention. I love you and your patience.

okay so i got a lot of asks yesterday, the day Jensen Said The Thing About Jack, far more than i can possibly answer. and while the majority were positive support (and thank you so much to everyone who sent support, i see you and i love you), but i got several hostile, antagonistic asks, and there was a particular reoccurring theme in them that i did not have the cognitive energy to address yesterday.

however, i have now had time to have a good old fashioned shower argument session, so i'm going to write this out, and i'm choosing this ask because it was at least less hostile than others.

here's the thing. basically everyone who was hostile to me used the exact same words: "why are you defending the rich white middle-aged texan man."

they said those words over and over. rich white middle-aged texan man. rich white middle-aged texan man.

now, if you don't know, i happen to be a white person who has lived in texas my entire life, and is closer to middle-aged than i'd prefer. just so we're all starting on the same page here.

while it's a dangerous thing to do on tumblr, i would like to try and deconstruct some of the logic here.

it appears as though the argument to this statement is simply, "this person has multiple axes of privilege, therefore he is wrong by default and everyone agreeing with him is wrong by default." it appears as though the argument is, "a debate on morality and correct vs incorrect is won or lost based on the amount of privilege held by those having the debate".

because, let me make it perfectly clear: i never said that jensen did absolutely nothing wrong. i never "poor baby"d him. i said that he was probably stressed out and anxious and he probably didn't mean it to come out the way it sounded, but i completely understood why people felt grossed out and upset by what he said. i said that i would like for someone to sit him down and explain to him why what he said was gross so he could do better, because i think that he's a sincere person would do better once he knows better. i did not pull the "stop being so mean to my poor little meow meow" routine. i discussed the subject at length, with what i think is a proper degree of nuance.

but every time i wrote 500 words of nuance, somebody else told me "stop defending the rich white middle aged texan man."

and i don't want to get into a whole essay here, but like..... do you people understand that each one of those things are not, in of themselves, bad?

yes, jensen is "rich", but is not wealthy. if you don't know the difference between 10 million and 10 billion, please do some math. he's a c list celebrity, not elon musk. yes, jensen is white. so am i. so is misha. so are lots of quite decent people. yes, jensen is middle aged. are we really gonna get ageist here and act like not being 20 is a character flaw? all of you will be middle aged someday.

yes, jensen is from texas. do you know why texas is shitty? because of gerrymandering and voter suppression, not because the people who live here suck worse than anywhere else. i see people make posts going "lmao he's literally from texas" like it's hilarious. donald trump was born in new york. what's your fucking point?

and yes, jensen is a man. is radfem rhetoric really so pervasive that i need to say that being a man is not bad? i mean like, it's one thing to vent and joke about men as a class, it's another thing entirely to act as though being a man makes you a bad person. men are not bad. men are fucking great. i love men.

and the thing is, i say all of this, but of course you know it already. because two days ago you knew that jensen was a rich white middle-aged texan man, and you still called him "king" and parasocialized like fucking crazy. when you thought he was gonna go out on stage and say "dean wants cas to fuck him in the ass" you LOVED him, you wanted to suck his dick. you didn't care that he was a rich white middle-aged texan.

but, when he didn't say the things you were demanding he say, you turned on him. he wasn't your king anymore. and then he fumbled a lame joke that was, at worst, casually sexist. (i will no longer entertain anyone saying he sexualized a child. if you cannot understand that alex calvert is in his thirties i do not know what to say to you anymore.) and it's completely fair to say "i don't like that joke, it was casually sexist and made me feel gross." that is completely fair.

BUT. with that, you have to admit that you're not upset about jensen being a rich white middle-aged texan man, you're upset about what he said. and, again, that's fair, as long as you're not twisting it into shit it wasn't. anyone who's upset and grossed out by the "a few more glances" comment, i sympathize with you. i'm not excusing the fact that he said it.

so... we're back to the fact that when i was discussing this, i was trying to discuss the morality of what he said, and whether those of us having the discussion were correct or incorrect in what he meant by what he said. and over and over, people responded with the "rich white middle aged texan man".

which, if you've made it this far, brings me to my ultimate point: i don't know how to tell you this, tumblr, but morality and correctness is not determined by privilege.

the most marginalized person in the room is not inherently the most moral person in the room, or the kindest. being gay or Black or disabled or poor doesn't make you a good person. being kind makes you a good person. and i guess this might be controversial on here, but sometimes privileged people are kind, and sometimes marginalized people are unkind assholes.

i was not defending jensen because he's white or a man, but because i think he's kind, and i think the people trashing him were both unkind and incorrect. i am not going to become so fucking brainrotted that i say "kill him" because the him in question is a white man who said one mildly upsetting thing, and i'm not gonna just go along with people who do.

i do not fucking like the way my dash turned so swiftly from kissing jensen's ass when they thought he was gonna say something gay to literally calling for him to be murdered because he said one dumb thing. the way people acted was unkind and cruel and undeserved, and i don't care how marginalized you are, if you are unkind and cruel for sport, i don't like you. you make fandom a terrible place.

i will defend anyone that i think is a kind, genuine person, and i will call out anyone who i think is an unkind asshole. i don't care if you're gay or trans or a person of color, if you're an unkind asshole, i'm not going to stand by you. your oppression is not an excuse for being a shitty ass person.

and before i end this post that DID turn into an essay despite my best efforts, there's one more thing i'd like to bring up that i found... interesting.

as soon as the dash starting going to hell over The Comment, i immediately saw people saying things like "well what do you expect from a straight man." and those people were the SAME people who have spent months making jokes about jensen being "[gunshots]" and gleefully partaking in my cockles masterlist. in other words, these people have spent nigh a year joking around and agreeing that jensen is a queer man.

but the moment he displeased them, he became a straight man again. as if being queer is only reserved for good people (you do know that queer men can be sexist, right?) and straight = bad. as though they were punishing a queer man by calling him straight.

and ultimately, i think my point is that you don't say "(straight) rich white middle-aged texan man" because you think those really are inherently bad things, because you were a fan of jensen five minutes ago. i think you say that so you have an excuse to be mean. just fucking nasty and unkind and violent and disgusting, really.

as long as he's all those things, there's no problem with saying that he should be shot in the head, right? because of course, it would be Wrong and Terrible to say that a poor disabled native lesbian should be shot in the head because she said something that upset you, right? and the difference would be because, uh... because being marginalized inherently makes you Good and being privileged inherently makes you Bad? so as long as the person in question was born under certain circumstances, it's totally cool and funny to make jokes wishing violent death upon them.

and, before anyone comes to tell me i'm a hypocrite, then, for saying rude things about jared, i'm going to explain, if i must, that the reason i hate jared is because he's not only a self-centered bigot, but because he thinks being cruel for sport is funny. do you get my point?

lastly, before i press post, i'm going to say this one more time: jensen absolutely did not hear that girl crying from backstage. i have been in a convention audience and not been able to clearly hear what a questioner said, because they are not mic'd as well as the person onstage. that is not an excuse, that's just a fact. some event coordinator told jensen to round up misha for the next thing on the schedule, jensen did not know what was currently going on, and he came out teasing in a way that would have been perfectly fine if the question was light-hearted, which they usually are. someone asking a question involving how to cope with the death of their abusive father is simply not what is typically happening at convention panels. he didn't. fucking. know.

at this point, i think that you guys actually just enjoy tearing people down and manipulating something into an excuse to be cruel. you view real, actual human people with feelings as toys to be played with, and when they don't dance the way you like, you throw a tantrum. and if that's what you want out of fandom, stop making any pretense of valuing kindness.

[verobatto]

Destiel Chronicles

It was a love story from the very beginning.

Vol. XXXVI

Goodbye my Love. Goodbye Stranger.

(8x17)

Hello My Friends! How are you? Another important meta from season 8, and we are here... We are in the crypt scene!! Our hearts will break... 😭

I want to say thank you to my friend @agusvedder she made the gifs for this meta and discussed with me the episode.

Okay... Let's do this... **Deep breath**

Sam knows

In episode 8x17 Goodbye Stranger, Sam and Dean knew Castiel was behaving weird.

Although that, Dean had prayed to him because he was worried about Sam, but as we learned in the previous volume of this Chronicles, he didn't pray just for that, but also, because he wanted to see Castiel. Because Dean missed him and he was worried about him too.

So, when Sam discovered Dean was praying to him, even knowing Castiel was acting weird, he didn't just ask once, but twice about why his brother prayed to him...

This first time, Sam is in awe, but this second time... With the whole thing digested, and with Castiel off, Sam is more direct.

DEAN: Well, he puts the "ass" in "Cas," huh?

SAM: He's definitely off.

DEAN: Off? He hasn't been right since he got back from Purgatory. We still don't know how he got out of there

Okay, this is a discussion the brother had had already, maybe a lot of times. They both were agreed about Castiel behaving weird. Then... Sam has this clear, but it caught his attention Dean's doesn't have things clear apparently, because he prayed to him. So... Here is the question, direct, and without anesthesia...

And Dean's face is acting everything. Okay, you can argue with me about this point, because later on this episode we will have this dialogue...

SAM: I'm fine.

DEAN: No, you're not fine. You haven't been fine since the first trial. That's why I called Cas.

Yes, Dean prayed to Castiel because he was worried about Sam, we already knew that... But... What we know too is... He prayed waiting for Castiel to appear right there in his room, remember? So... One of the reason, the big one, is the necessity of Castiel to heal his brother, to protect him, but the Hidden One, that one that makes Dean try to hide, and put himself flustered when Sam asked him the reason why, I because he wanted to see Cas, because he's worried about him, and he missed him. Because he loves him.

So here he had the perfect motive again to show his brother he called Cas because he was worried about his little brother's healthy... Perfect... No homo there my friends... Just a worried brother calling for his totally platonic bro/friend to help him.

But Sam is insightful and clever, I want you to jump with me to the last scene... We can do that because we all know this episode like our names, so... A little more of Sammy knows...

After the crypt scene, they were back on the road in baby, Castiel had left, as we know, and this is what Dean says to Sam...

SAM: So... what happened? I mean, Cas touched the tablet, and it reset him to his factory settings or something?

DEAN: I don't know. And I don't care. All I know is that he is off the reservation with a-a heavenly WMD. Listen, man, I can't take any more lies -- from anyone.

Dean is mad, Sam gets it immediately, he's mad. But not at Sam. Sam gets that too.

Because when Dean avoids a topic... Is because that's really affecting him...

And then... This song starts to play... And watch Sammy's face...

These are the lyrics from Goodbye Stranger

It was an early morning yesterday

I was up before the dawn

And I really have enjoyed my stay

But I must be moving on

Like a king without a castle

Like a queen without a throne

I'm an early morning lover

And I must be moving on

Okay, this is a lover of one night, a lover that doesn't get strains to anyone. After Dean confessed his feelings to Castiel on that crypt, Castiel decides to run away with the tablet, leaving Dean alone, heartbroken and feeling unrequited. Again.

Now I believe in what you say

Is the undisputed truth

But I have to have things my own way

To keep me in my youth

We are still talking about Castiel here.

Like a ship without an anchor

Like a slave without a chain

Just the thought of those sweet ladies

Sends a shiver through my veins

Castiel deciding to leave again, he rejected Dean's feelings (from Dean's POV) and help. He's a lone wolf. B

And I will go on shining

Shining like brand new

I'll never look behind me

My troubles will be few

Goodbye stranger it's been nice

Hope you find your paradise

Tried to see your point of view

Hope your dreams will all come true

And we had reached Dean's POV at this point, he's mad, and very very angry. Because he was rejected and Cas didn't trust him. So he's saying goodbye to him.

Goodbye Mary, goodbye Jane

Will we ever meet again

Feel no sorrow, feel no shame

Come tomorrow, feel no pain

Dean pushing down all his feelings again.

Sweet devotion (Goodbye, Mary)

It's not for me (Goodbye, Jane)

Just give me motion (Will we ever)

To set me free (Meet again?)

In the land and the ocean (Feel no sorrow)

Far away (Feel no shame)

It's the life I've chosen (Come tomorrow)

Every day (Feel no pain)

So goodbye, Mary (Goodbye, Mary)

Goodbye, Jane (Goodbye, Jane)

Will we ever (Will we ever)

Meet again? (Meet again?)

This is Dean trying to say goodbye to his feeling for Castiel, is not for me, goodbye sweet devotion, because he feels so hurted and heartbroken, he decides to push everything down, because he feel unrequited.

Now... Let's come back to one important thing right here... Megstiel time...

Megstiel brought us Jealous!Dean back again

The classic Megstiel scene, is quite interesting, because Meg can't stop to seduce Cas by throwing at him a lot of sugestives quotes... I won't talk about the whole conversation, Agua is making a gifset I will relate with this meta because sadly, I just can put 10 gifs to show you all the things I saw, but what I want to point here is an idea I constructed in my head since I met Castiel. Please read this mini meta here I wrote time ago, about Castiel's seduction techniques.

And you will catch what I need to show you now in this piece of dialogue...

CASTIEL: These wounds have festered. [CASTIEL wraps gauze around one of MEG's wrists.]

MEG: You really do know how to make a girl's nethers quiver, don't you? [MEG is sitting on the couch, holding an open bottle of booze, she's been cleaned up a bit.]

CASTIEL: I am aware of how to do that. Although it doesn't usually involve cleaning wounds.

Did you read that?!!!!!! Cas is aware about seduction techniques!!

As I said on my mini meta, I'm pretty sure Castiel used his seduction techniques with Dean... And he still does that! Because HE KNOWS HOW TO DO THAT!!

Plus his innate sexiness... BOOM! HERE YOU HAVE THE HOTTEST ANGEL ON THE GARRISON.

Irresistible... PrayxDean.

Okay, let's talk about Jealous!Dean. We had two scenes in which we had Dean feeling jealous in Meg presence.

First scene, and how writers and producers are very aware of the fandom's ships... And they use it.

Dean is saying this with disgust, why he feels jealous always about Meg? Well, maybe because Castiel kissed Meg so passionate that time? And they had that special friendship in season 7???

And then this one... Dean acting like cockblocker, really Dean? Control your jealous face please 😏

The Crypt Scene

Okay, we're here, Carver era, crypt scene, a place in which Dean had to say I LOVE YOU to Cas, making Destiel canon, but he did, because Jensen's was so right back then, Dean wasn't prepared...

But... What happened in this crypt? Everything!

Okay, First of all, I need you to rewind the video, at the beginning of this episode, remember that scene with a lot of Dean's killed by Castiel, with Naomi watching? Yeah... She made Cas kill a lot.of Dean bc she knew what Cas felt for him. So she needed to be sure Cas will kill Dean when it will be needed. She was a bitch...

Then... When CAS and Dean were alone at the crypt, and Dean had the angel tablet in his hands... The program in Castiel's head started to roll. Dean noticed Castiel was trying to get the tablet, and he didn't trust in Cas because he was acting weird... So... He tried to get from the angel some truth... Like... How he had been pulled out from Purgatory...

CASTIEL: I can't let you take that, Dean.

DEAN: Can't or won't?

CASTIEL: Both.

DEAN: How did you get out of Purgatory, Cas?

Immediately, after seeing that wasn't HIS CAS, Dean threw that question.

The entire scene flips between the crypt and Naomi, and how CAS is trying so hard not to obey and keep Dean safe.

DEAN: Just tell me how you got out of Purgatory. Be honest with me -- for the first time since you've been back -- [DEAN nods towards the stone he's still holding] and this is yours. [CASTIEL's blade drops into his hand.]

Dean needed to hear the truth. Everything, he needed to hear too... Castiel didn't stay because he didn't want to come back with him... He needed Cas to say that was a lie too...

DEAN: Cas. Cas, I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, but if you're in there and you can hear me, you don't have to do this. [CASTIEL attacks, DEAN blocks the blow with the stone.] Cas! [Flashes of light, thunder rumbles.]

Dean sees Castiel isn't there, he's defending himself against a robot, where is his friend? He tries to call h back, to drag him to reality. He tries because he believes he can reach him.

And while this is happening and Cas began to hit Dean, Naomi tries to keep him under control, because Castiel is fighting back strongly, Naomi wants him to protect the tablet and kill Dean, and Cas wants to protect DEAN.

NAOMI: Do you realize what that tablet can do for us?

CASTIEL: I...

NAOMI: For heaven?

CASTIEL: I won't hurt Dean.

NAOMI: Yes. You will. You are.

The scene is too intense, and Cas keeps hitting Dean, and Dean keeps calling him. Till... This happens...

Look at Dean's hand, trying to reach Castiel...

Dean is not just trying to reach Cas with his hand, but also with his words... He's sure Castiel is there, and he's sure he will listen, and he's sure Castiel will come back to him. That's why he tries with everything he has... With honesty. Tries to get him back with honest feelings and words... We need you... Not hell... Cas... I NEED YOU. The same words he used when he convinced him to follow him in Purgatory. I need you, don't leave me. This I NEED YOU is so so important, is the replacement of the I LOVE YOU that never happens. So is the big I NEED YOU. Dean's naked feelings. His last shot. His bare soul. Right there. Chest open, heart beating.

Dean is waiting for Castiel's reaction after his confession, and immediately after that honest I NEED YOU, Castiel breaks connection, and he's back again.

Not the tablet, why not? Because the I NEED YOU is what makes Cas stop. And when he touches the tablet, and Crowley reveals the tablet was what kept Castiel disconnected with Naomi, why he still was disconnected after losing the tablet? Pure logic, my friends, the tablet had nothing to do with this disconnection, it was Dean's I NEED YOU, who worked, and brought Cas back. The love. The Profound Bond.

And it hurts a lot, because while Castiel was hitting him, Dean was grabbing his forearm, with fear, he thought Cas will kill him... But he just couldn't stop grabbing him, he couldn't stop being close to him like that. He has to get his angel back... And when CAS reach's his face with his hand... Dean grabbed Castiel's forearm again, you have to rewatch the scene is so romantic and angsty, Dean was terrified, but he just remained there... Kneeled... Tryin to make Cas to hear him, and trying to get him back, and he did it.

The big question the writers left to us, we already know the answer...

DEAN: Well, w-what broke the connection?

CASTIEL: I don't know. I just know that I have to protect this tablet now.

DEAN: From Naomi?

CASTIEL: Yes. And from you.

Castiel said this, because it was Purgatory all over again, and Leviathans chasing after Cas, but this time, were Angels and a dangerous Naomi, so he needed to put that tablet safe and far away from everyone, and from Dean, to protect him again.

But what Dean understood here is CAS DOESN'T TRUST ME, AFTER I CONFESSED MY FEELINGS, HE DOESN'T TRUST ME. And his heart broke again, and we had to hear that song in the car... Dean is heartbroken, as the first half of the season showed us, tons of broken and eaten hearts... He's disappointed with CAS... And he's feeling rejected and unrequited...

To Conclude:

This episode showed us Sam Winchester getting the idea of what Dean feels for Castiel.

We also had Megstiel as a tool, because it brought us back Jealous Dean and we got the idea about how Castiel is conscious about seduction techniques.

But the most important scene, one of the most emblematic of Destiel scenes, was the Crypt scene. The I LOVE that never happened, but a huge love Confession from Dean to get Castiel back.

The confession brought Castiel back, but when the angel ran away from Dean, Dean felt rejected, heartbroken and unrequited, and he began to pushing all his feelings down again.

I hope you like this meta, I suffered a lot, but we'll.. I love this scene...

See you in the next one!

Tagging @metafest @magnificent-winged-beast @emblue-sparks @weirddorkylittlediana @michyribeiro @whyjm @legendary-destiel @a-bit-of-influence @thatwitchydestielfan @misha-moose-dean-burger-lover @lykanyouko @evvvissticante @savannadarkbaby @angelneedshunter @trickster-archangel @dea-stiel @poorreputation @bre95611 @thewolfathedoor @charlottemanchmal @neii3n @deathswaywardson @followyourenergy @dean-is-bi-till-i-die @hekatelilith-blog @avidbkwrm @anarchiana @mishka-the-angel-of-saturday @dickpuncher365 @vampyrosa @foxyroxe-art @authorsararayne @anonymoustitans @mybonsai1976 @love-neve-dies @wildligia @dustythewind @wayward-winchester67 @angelwithashotgunandtrenchcoat @trashblackrainbow @deeutdutdutdoh @destiel-is--endgame @destiel-shipper-11 @larrem88 @charmedbycastiel @ran-savant @little-crazy-misha-minion @samoosetheshipper

@shadows-and-padlocked-hearts @mishtho @dancingtuesdaymorning @nerditoutwithbooks @mikennacac73 @justmeand-myinsight @idontwantpeopletoknowmyname @tenshilover20 @teddybeardoctor @pepevons

If you want to be tagged, just let me know.

If you want to read the previous metas from Season 8, here you have the links...

Vol. XXXI, Vol. XXXII, Vol. XXXIII, Vol. XXXIV and Vol. XXXV

Buenos Aires November 5th 2019 8:11 PM

[go-diane-winchester]

Misha Collins is not the Professor of Slash Fiction

What Misha Collins has done to Supernatural slash fiction, has ruined slash within the fandom and added fuel to the fire of hatred that gay men are starting to have for slash fans.  I feel very sad for the teen destiel shippers in fandom, who have fledgling sexualities and instead of letting them explore these things organically and healthily, via slash fiction, Misha wants to school them on slash, a subject he has piss poor knowledge of.  Because he is a well known figure, in SPN circles anyway, they assume that he knows what he is talking about.  Actors and characters are merely muses, not the foundations blocks for a shipper's  happiness mansion.  You don’t need their permission or blessing.  You don't need their validation.  What Misha did was, he made destiel his personal brand.  Anything for popularity.  And he did it, despite knowing that the other half of the pairing is disapproving of it.   

A slasher's sexuality is being exhibited through the stories she writes.  Slash fiction is not about an actor, show, character or other external parties.  It is internal.  It has everything to do with the girl writing the story, and is a reflection of her sexual expression.  Once upon a time, women wrote only what they like.  If they didn’t like something, they steered clear of it, because that is what people with common sense do.  I, for example, can’t read fellatio because it doesn’t do anything for me.  I guess its because I am not a man, don’t have a penis and therefore don’t know what it feels like, so I don’t appreciate it.  In my stories, my characters don’t fellate each other.  If I read a story that is really enjoyable and fellatio makes an appearance, I skip that paragraph.  However, I don’t berate the person for writing something I personally don’t like.  She wrote it perhaps because she finds it enjoyable. 

Today, women are not really writing for themselves.  They are writing homosexually appropriate sex scenes, just so that their gay male readers, that are not the majority, don’t scoff at them and go “that’s not how we do it”.  Yes, the gay friends in this bubble are happy, but the majority of the slash fans that are mostly heterosexual women are left feeling lackluster.  Perhaps that is why there is a general trend for women to “grow out of slash fiction” and even mass media is seeing slash fiction as a teenage girl’s pass time.  Women, who are fully grown, and fully aware of their sexuality can’t pretend to like the stories because the stories are no longer appealing.  Of course, some Misha fans are A-OK with that artistic injustice because “Misha would love it because he is not a bigot”.  It has nothing to do with bigotry.  Sometimes, it is best to leave out the sex scene rather than make a select few happy.  Slash sex was never meant to be realistic sex.  It is, after all, written generally by straight females for straight females.  Throw in the bi females as well.  Its fantastical, as it should be. 

In early slash stories that I read, back in the lord of the ring days, ukes came the way women do, without a hand on them.  Why?  Because that is how women usually orgasm.  They write what they know.  However, young sexually inactive girls, listening to Misha and his LGBT slash tirades, endeavor to make stories “accurate”.  So now we have lots of young girls, growing up with a better understanding of gay sex than of straight sex.  I have even heard a few saying that they wanted to be gay men.  Misha is interfering with a natural process and confusing teenagers, which bites because as it is, sexuality is so confusing for young people.  Proper slash or classic slash is an artistic manifestation of straight sex.  The drivel that we have now is political correct, inclusive nonsense that gay men didn’t ask for and women don’t feel overwhelming enthusiastic about.  I don’t know what the ramifications of that is going to be other than women deserting slash fiction. 

I would like to point out at this juncture, that as far as SPN is concerned, Misha is a culprit.  But there were one more culprit.  There was one who communicated with general slash fans around the early 2000s.  His name was minotaur.  And he tried to school slashers on how to write gay sex correctly because they weren’t doing a good enough job for his liking.  He had no business doing that.  It has nothing to do with him.  Slash fiction is for woman.  Gay fiction or bara is for men. 

For Supernatural, I like J2 alternate universe.  There aren't very many other people left to love on this show.  They are all back stabbers.  If I write a story, Jensen is always the baby.  Baby is the word I used to use during my Lord of the Rings days, before I realized that the word uke existed.  Its not the correct way to write Jensen.  It is my favorite way of writing Jensen.  I like Jensen as the baby.  When I write a story where I need the baby to be a kidnap victim or abused stepchild or ethereal unattainable prince, I like to see Jensen in that role.  It has nothing to do with him.  It is how I like to write.  Its about my perception.  He is just a muse.  

I like seeing Jared as the daddy.  Go ahead and laugh.  I still smirk about this embarrassing word that I used before I know seme existed.  I like when Jared as the savior.  I cant see him as a baby because he is so fricking huge and tall, with the rippling muscles, expansive torso and broad shoulders.  Its is, for me at least, too easy to write him as a ferocious warrior, then as an abused baby locked away in a dungeon. 

P.S.:  THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE JARED GIFS. 

The Jensen and Jared in my stories are mere avatar of the real actors.  They are manifestations of my sexuality and what I like sexually.  They have nothing to do with the real actors.  That is what hellers fail to understand.  They think that whatever they read in a destiel story is a manifestation of the truth.  That is why destiel and cockles stories are not imaginative.  J2 stories are so diverse because the actors themselves, despite being slash friendly, have never interfered with the genre.  They allowed the art form to grow at its own steady pace, organically.

Only the destiel fans do that now.  Because Misha turned an innocent art form into a drug, and he is their only dealer.  And you know how druggies love their dealers.  Reader opinions matter but not about who should be the baby and who should be the daddy.  You can't tell others how to navigate their sexual expression.  That is what Misha fails to understand.  Misha tries to show that he is an alpha.  So he is, essentially telling his fans what to write.  That is why Cockles stories are one trick ponies.  Artistic growth is completely stunted.  They are mostly High School AUs with the Jock Dean and Nerd Cas falling in love.  Even Twist and Shout was like that.  Except that Cas died in the end.  From AIDS.  No wonder gay men hate slash fans.  AIDS has no place in a slash story.  Its not a trope or a fetish.  Have some respect.  And who made hellers think slash was a gay thing?  Misha.  So blame him. 

Mpreg is proof that slash is a female art form.  The only other people who write mpreg now, write it as a creative exercise.  I used to feel embarrassed by mpreg especially if men found out about it.  But now I am fiercely protective of it.  Because its one of the last remnants of female sexuality in slash fiction. You don’t see mpreg popping up as frequently in bara, because gay men don’t fall pregnant and therefore don’t have a natural maternal desire.  Mpreg is big in SPN.  The brothers, Cas, even Kevin have gotten knocked up.  SPN is like a regular maternity ward.  I realize that Misha might not know anything about mpreg because he hasn’t spoken about it in his panels.  If this is true, then I hope it stays that way.  I don't want Misha to ruin mpreg, because imagine poor Jensen dealing with that. 

I was under the assumption that Misha doesn't know what tin hatting is.  I assumed that he thought Cockles is just an RPS pairing.  His talks about Cockles has started to make me think otherwise.  Misha doesn't realize that he is playing with fire.  And the day the penny drops for Jensen, he is going to be furious.  He is going to realize Misha is the reason his and Jared's reputation are completely tarnished.  He is going to realize Misha is the reason he and Jared get so many threats.  That is why, I wish Misha will stop talking about Cockles.  Just his interference, by itself, has turned his destiel shippers into a militant group.  Notice how his sastiel fans don't do that.  It is because he doesn't indulge sastiel.  In other words, he neglects the expendable fans, because he assumes, incorrectly, that destiel gives him more clout. 

Because he is schooled hellers for the past ten years, they are brainwashed into making slash fiction something it isn't.  It is not an expression of gay rights.  Its not a sexuality and its not about making the writers do what you want.  Even having a civil discussion about slash fiction is hampered because the answer to anything, from that camp, is usually “Well, Misha doesn’t have a problem with it”.  Misha is not your father.  You don’t have to see slash fiction or anything else through the Misha Collins lens.  Use your own common sense.  Normal destiel fans understand this.  Why cant hellers?

You don't need actor validation to enjoy slash fiction.  In fact, in my ideal world, I would hope that the actors never heard about slash fiction.  Personally, I find it mortifying.  The actors [decent ones anyway] are not there to fulfill your sexual needs.  They are not sex dolls.  They are only muses because you love them.  That doesn't mean they have to approve of your fetishes.  The proper definition of slash fiction should be:  Slash fiction is an escapist fantasy platform showcasing stories and artwork, by women for women, about male subjects in a romantic setting.  Leaving out the words “homoerotic” does away with multiple confusions, because slash is not gay porn.  This is what Misha believes and his own shipper fans got angry with him for calling destiel pseudo-porn.  Misha researched slash fiction on Wikipedia, like the complete idiot that he is, and it gave him biased, incorrect information.  It is the first time I actually saw destiel fans questioning Misha about this subject.  Even they acknowledge he doesn't know what he is talking about. 

Misha Collins is singlehandedly ruining something he had no business getting involved in.  I don’t really bother about what minotaur did to other slash fans, because originally it didn’t disturb my little corner of the internet.  Misha had ruined slash in this fandom.  When slash was true to itself, in the classical sense, women were still honest with themselves about their sexuality.  Bullying was infrequent and slash fiction was not ruined beyond repair.  Gay men weren't getting infuriated because women were fetishizing their lifestyle.  Now the hellers are bleeding into other fandoms and influencing their thought processes.  Misha's rotten influence has had a domino effect.  I really wish he would read this and stop.

[elizabethrobertajones]

not to play devil's advocate bc fuck that anon, but i don't think they were bitching about the destiel scene per se so much for the context of it, and the big romantic implication that we were waiting for was just a throwaway sex joke from a demon that we've heard the likes of so many times and it.. doesn't really move their relationship anywhere. i hope you understand.

Yeah, I do, when you’re not aggressive about it (thanks

I just feel like that anon’s aggressiveness was entirely about the sense of being promised an entire scene and then lashing out and blaming me/the fandom/the show?? for promising them something huge and taking their generalised disappointment/overall anger at the show and bundling it all into using this as the scapegoat for their anger. If they had just taken a mo to read those tweets again it came across fairly clearly to me that it was a single line and also one that was in the category of whoops and cheers and laughter from Jensen rather than “awww”s and other less bawdy reactions. The thing is that those spoilers weren’t hyping it up as anything more than what it was, and knowing now full well that it was a single line, re-read those tweets and it’s very clear that they were reporting faithfully on the moment while trying not to spoil it. Especially all 4 together in that post, which was the most popular I saw circulating, and I feel like anon in particular seemed to have been waiting for an entire scene and somewhere or other got very hyped up for something that no one had promised them from any of these 1st hand reports. Seeing the tweets again reminded me I had the anon in my inbox and I got pretty pissed off that they got so annoyed about it when I was taking another look at the spoilers with all the context… I just, like, really hate speculation and spinning enormous narratives like gold out of straw. 

I didn’t really talk about the moment itself, but, yeah. It isn’t anything new - Dabb has even written 3 years ago an almost identical scene with the angels taunting Cas with the implication he and Dean are boning, but this one made the connection absolutely clear for the audience, with no leaps whatsoever to connect what he was saying to Destiel, vs it being Dean’s phonecall that set that angel to threatening to cut off Cas’s junk. And we’ve gone a pretty long time since that level of taunting. I’ve always liked that 7x23 was the last time we got a “he’s your boyfriend” for a pretty hefty stretch of Carver era… I’m actually struggling to remember if there ARE any direct implications in seasons 8 or 9, and then in 10 we get the “Deastiel” moment in 10x05, and the deleted boyfriends argument in 10x14, and overall Carver era is extremely low on these implications and ‘jokes’ compared to Gamble era. I DO think the direct implications without any actual representation or canon sucks especially because these heap up and up and up in the ongoing annuals of Dean n Cas implications which are starting their 10th full year now. Like, interesting as they are on a meta level and for rolling along with the story having fun etc, cumulatively they suck when that’s as visible as it gets. 

I do think, though, that in general this line would have been treated with a lot more fun if it hadn’t been spoiled at all because even sensible people like yourself can build up an expectation that the line might not be another one of these, just out of hoping for the best/giving the show the benefit of the doubt. Like actually maybe it could be someone calling Cas on his feelings (like 13x04 and the Empty accusing him of having some secret love, which was profound rather than teasing and a whole other category of this stuff minus the whole har har it’s funny that you might be gay together thing which for me hands an enormous amount of leeway to the snide comments from bad guys as it creates the weight to the relationship which makes it more than something spun from nothing but needling from villains who think its a joke, whether they seem to believe it or not). So I do get the hope that you can build up that it might have been something else, even against the spoiler than Jensen absolutely cracked up at it (which to me, knowing how he laughs at these things in general, was really the thing that made me guess it was going to be pretty much what we got but I know I apply a lot of lowest possible expectations to thinks just to protect myself). 

Being bitter and cynical about it without proper mental upkeep in the direction of positivity can be really wearing. *I* can be cynical because I don’t mean it as wank and I know I still love the show etc etc so I’m prepared for the event without it coming across as disappointment… But that’s a strong mental wall I made and I know not everyone wants to/can/thinks we should have to do that. I sort of feel ALL media can be disappointing or not what you were after and basically only stuff you make yourself and a rare few creators will scratch the exact thing you want without issues. So I don’t feel it’s weird to allow SPN leeway to do sucky things so much as it’s the thing I’m most invested in so I have to be a lot more clear about them, while if other media lets me down in some way I am way more casual and roll with it easier to start with. And with SPN being heavily invested for so long, I’ve weathered SO MUCH outrage over these things and worse and less that something like this is very easy for me to soak with my mental armour and take on the chin and see it for what it is in the first place and so on without having particularly bitter thoughts when I immediately divine what type of line it will be from the spoilers. It’s not a “oh it will probably be garbage gay teasing” it a much more gentle reaction, knowing that I’ve already watched this far knowing the show does it so one more instance is just another for the record books. 

I mean there’s a feeling of collecting the show’s sins and weighing its heart when all is said and done in the future when the show ends. But that’s extremely morbid so I don’t linger on that part of this sort of disassociative permissiveness to the show’s nonsense :P

Anyways. It’s good to be excited about the show but when it comes specifically to wild destiel spoilers I do think this fandom seriously needs an overall better filter to decide what will truly happen, and there’s no one person to blame, it’s a mindset and we very easily get carried away, and I’ve had to learn the hard way that I need to set myself as a rock in that river and let it wash past me. And not make hard lines of saying not to get enthusiastic for ANYTHING because oftentimes spoilers about Dean n Cas working together or chilling together DO turn out to be really good and in no way should we approach the episodes like we’re going to be attacked, because that’s where bitter stan fandom factions come from. It’s so complicated, and I really was trying not to say anything about it but then I got frustrated and it’s hard to be completely perfect about keeping quiet on annoyances… :P 

I don’t know what the tl:dr is here.. I don’t blame people for getting excited, for sure. But maybe just for lashing out at others when they don’t get what they want and are really incautious. The original anon conjured a whole scene up they wanted, not just a line, and that to me is the perfect example of fandom spinning straw into gold with hype, and something I really can’t stand and at that point I start to say there IS a personal blame/responsibility. Peeps who weren’t THAT irrationally expectant and then proportionately furious after are cool and I wasn’t blaming anyone else >.>