#manifesting spn trending over this

[monotonouscigarette]

[onrainynights]

why you can't compare buddie to destiel (from someone who ships both)

this is kind of addressing the recent negativity in the buddie tag, but it's also a collection of my thoughts and reasoning for being buddie-positive despite my experiences with destiel and spn in general. the text of 911 is not really discussed at all, and this is relatively spoiler-free, so if you're thinking of watching 911 I encourage you to read it. if you haven't seen both shows it probably won't make perfect sense, but I wrote this with spn fans who haven't seen 911 in mind, since that's most of my followers (and also seems to be where much of the negativity was coming from) pretty long post under the cut to save your dash

I just want to prepare y'all for the fact that buddie could be the slow burn will they/won't they mlm romance we've been waiting for practically forever.

at this point it's not fair to call it queerbait because where their relationship is now fits the characters and their development. this is not like destiel, where there were many moments over the years that could've ended with them getting together and it would've made sense with the story. buddie right now is in this sweet, wholesome pre-relationship kind of place, which on its own is a compelling dynamic and so fun and good to see. a resolution of it right now would feel out of character—they both still have some development to do before that would feel natural. and so, I don't think we can really call it queerbaiting unless the characters get to that point and there is still no resolution.

also I'd like to point out the overall positivity from the cast when it comes to buddie. both Eddie's and Buck's actors have said (I'm paraphrasing cast statements in this post unless they are in quotations) positive things about the pairing, and Buck's actor has said that he likes the interpretation of Buck as queer, and he would be happy if the writers took his character in that direction. also Eddie's actor with "that's what they all say" when buddie was referred to as a "bromance". Jennifer Love Hewitt, who plays Buck's sister (another main character), is very supportive of buddie, saying she's "rooting for it", that it would be "amazing", she doesn't "see how it couldn't happen one day". this was in response to hearing that a fan insists Buck and Eddie will be a couple. She flat-out said "I think so, too." She jokes about buddie with Buck's and Eddie's actors all the time. Also, my favorite bit from the video of her saying all this, "Let's manifest it together!"

It's safe to say this is a VERY different environment to spn. I don't think I've ever seen a cast this positive about a show's main non-canon queer ship before. NEVER. I think it's safe to say that if/when buddie is canonized, the cast will be just as excited as the fans—at least JLH will be! Add into the fact that the show's PR seems to be leaning into bi buck and buddie right now, it's a VERY different vibe than spn had, definitely. There's no gaslighting of the fans here, at least not that I've seen. also, although 911 has a large casual viewership, I think it's safe to say the GA would not be upset by buddie—there are only 3 serious, long-term romantic relationships involving main characters in this show, and one of them is a lesbian marriage with two children. And yes, the characters are shown being lesbians, it's not just a stated fact; the audience is privy to their relationship (and their interactions with their adorable kids). I think it's safe to say that buddie would go over well with the fans, even the casual viewers (of which there are many). buddie doesn't seem to be a huge divider in fandom like destiel is, either. reactions generally seem to be either "I ship it" or "I don't care either way."

Also I'd like to point out that while yes, it's possible that buddie is only bait (which would be disappointing), there's a reason queerbaiting works. people WANT to be queerbaited, because it's nearly indistinguishable from a slow burn will they/won't they queer romance. queerbaiting allows fans to make theories, create fan content (including fic), and keeps them engaged with the dynamic and the show. fans who are vulnerable to queerbaiting want a slow burn will they/won't they queer romance, which is currently an almost completely untapped market. spn could've tapped it, but despite the huge fandom they did not. there are SO MANY people outside of spn fandom who want a slow burn mlm romance, one that keeps the audience guessing, one that's will they/won't they, one that is not guaranteed, and that is why queerbaiting works so well. the audience doesn't just want the payoff, they also want the build-up. the longer the build-up, the higher the payoff, and the suspense of the build-up is gone if you know from the start that the payoff is definitely coming. that's part of why malec from shadowhunters didn't fully tap this market—there was no question of if, only the question of when (which wasn't really a question either, given there was an episode in season 1 literally titled "malec" when they got together.) the characters were always queer, the show being an adaptation of a book series where they were in a relationship and eventually had children together.

this was why November 5th was such a big deal—fans were so far past the will they/won't they aspect of destiel, firmly believing that destiel would always end as a "won't they" and not a "will they" that when cas confessed his romantic love for dean, destiel trended on Twitter over the US election. you all know that story, but maybe not everyone reading this knows that after Nov. 5 there was a case of hundreds if not thousands of spn fans experiencing love sickness because of the confession scene. the payoff of making destiel fully canon (and reciprocated, in English) would've been huge. fans would've been throwing their money at the c/w.

which leads me to the possibility (this is not at all me saying that I think this happened or even is likely, just that it's one possibility that /could/ have happened) that buddie started as bait, that the writers never intended for them to be a couple, but saw fan reactions to buddie during season 2 and started to lean into it in season 3 (and 4 so far, but it just started so I don't want to make any generalized statements about it) possibly still as bait or maybe not deciding yet if they'll go anywhere with it. and then maybe they saw destiel trending on November 5th, realized just how BIG the market for a slow burn will they/won't they mlm romance is, and said "hey, we already have the foundations for one of those. why not go for it and draw in all those viewers who clearly want one so badly?"

if buddie goes canon, because the cast and PR have been so positive about it, unlike spn, and because of the text of the show itself, the show's creatives could VERY EASILY claim that they were never baiting, that it was all an intentional slow burn will they/won't they romance from the beginning, and most people would believe them; there isn't really any evidence to the contrary, although I am sure there would be at least a few fans convinced it started as queerbaiting, and there might not be any evidence to refute that, either.

the point is that 911 is currently sitting on a gold mine. if they play their cards right, and execute buddie well, they will monopolize this market that old straight white men serving as network executives have failed so far to really tap into. they queerbait without the payoff, which gives the show a reputation among those in the market who haven't seen it, guaranteeing they will never watch it. shows in this vein: sherlock (huge reputation for queerbaiting and a finale fans didn't like) and spn (huge reputation for queerbaiting and a finale fans didn't like). spn got so, so close with cas's confession but then continued to gaslight its fans, and PR did not lean into destiel AT ALL. if 911 did buddie? the PR team would be all over it. it would be a moneymaker, big time, and Fox knows it. if buddie, or even just bi buck, went canon, tumblr would be all over it. viewership for the show, which is already impressive, would skyrocket. 911 would monopolize this market, because fans wary of queerbaiting would watch it with the knowledge that the payoff is there, and there really wouldn't be a competitor until other shows saw the success of buddie and followed suit with their own pairings, and given the fact that the market specifically wants /slow burn/ queer romances, that might take a couple years. that puts 911 in a really good position, where suddenly the fandom of the show, not just the GA, is very large and likely very dedicated to the show. the success of canon buddie might just change the landscape of TV in the coming years, showing execs that while queerbaiting does work, actually going through with it is really where the money is. 911 would not just monopolize the market for a while; it would pioneer it.

if buddie never goes canon, I would probably be a bit disappointed at the wasted potential, but unless the characters get to that point where canon buddie seems like the most logical outcome and they /don't/ go for it, I won't be truly upset because I don't think it's fair to claim its queerbaiting until then. I can't tell you how likely it is that buddie will be canon at some point, but it seems FAR more likely than destiel /ever/ did, and we ended up getting cas's confession in the end. I have hope, despite being hurt so badly by spn. 911 is a genuinely great show with some fantastic writing, and they don't leave chekov's gun unfired, unlike spn.

really, it comes down to this: if Jennifer Love Hewitt is allowed to clown for buddie, then so am I, and I'll enjoy this show—which is amazing even without canon buddie—while I apply my clown makeup.

[soulonoscopys]

was just listening to a spn podcast about the episode playthings (02x11) and they had such great takes on dean. but when it comes to sam…

this is such a trend in this fandom, that people really don’t get sam. and i would understand if there were more people who can relate to dean, and so they fall short on understanding the workings of sam’s mind. but it’s the fact that they think they’re analyzing sam properly, but what they do is they analyze him from a dean perspective? they make him an extension of dean?

the podcasters were talking about drunk!sam in playthings, and his guilt about the secret and fear of turning darkside. and they talked about how he was taking on dean’s guilt, and drinking like dean. they agreed that he is becoming more dean and ‘sam taking on the deanisms by drinking on the job, and taking on dean’s guilt by being guilty over the secret’

like…i don’t know if anyone else agrees, but sam has similar defense mechanism as dean because they were raised in the same household. sam has grown up with dean and john, who both drink when they’re down. it is an attribute of sam due to his environment yes, but it is still sam’s trauma manifesting itself and not him “becoming more dean”. he is still sam, it is a part of him! (just because it doesn’t manifest often doesn’t mean it’s not in him, he just doesn’t succumb to drinking unless things are properly messed up)

it’s the fact that people reduce sam and see him less as his own person, and more as a plot device or a dean device. it’s just frustrating and i want good proper takes on sam!

read a post the other day that said sam can’t understand dean nor does he try, because when dean told him johns secret - sam was furious and told dean to take responsibility for it

as sam should! it’s not dean’s fault, and sam reconciles with that by the end of the episode. but upon hearing the words “he said i might have to kill you, sammy” sam is allowed to be angry! to feel betrayed even! his father said these words, his brother has been carrying them around - and they are about him! especially the specific thing he has been worrying about- that he might be evil

anyway, i just had to rant because ugh. i love dean and all the dean takes, but when people reduce sam to a reflection/extension/part of dean - they remove his autonomy as his own person

which, y’know is exactly what the boy has been fighting for his entire life :))

[eisforeidolon]

Sorry for coming into your askbox. But I am pretty new to this fandom, and you seem to be pretty calm. I'm honestly a bit disgusted how some people use the LGBTQ+ community to hate on actors, producers, writers because of a ship. Being Asexual myself, I always found comfort in SPN because it was about Platonic love. Is this the norm for this fandom, or is it just a group of loud people?

You don't need to apologize, I don't mind.

The thing about any fandom above a certain size is that there is going to be a significant fraction of it that's a constant flaming dumpster fire. Maybe because in that many people you're just gonna have that many assholes by proportion, maybe because with that many people there are enough overly invested ones to sustain any conflict in perpetuity.

It's just that what, exactly, they're being hateful over changes somewhat from fandom to fandom and across time. Right now, using social justice issues as an excuse to hate anyone who doesn't agree with you is, unfortunately, a wider fandom trend. Within SPN, this has mostly manifested in a certain faction of D/C shippers insisting anyone who doesn't ship their ship and tell them their meta is valid is a homophobe, including not just other fans, but the writers, actors, and various people associated with the production. They let themselves get so invested in the idea of their ship that they started taking any answer but "Yes, it's canon" as a personal attack and justification for slander and threats (granted mostly empty ones, but still, WTF).

I don't think it's the whole fandom at all, but the people involved are loud enough and committed enough to making themselves heard that if you want to have a peaceful SPN existence, you're going to have to brutally curate what blogs you follow and what content you seek out. Including, unfortunately, avoiding some of the twitters of the actors themselves if you don't want to see them being relentlessly attacked. There are definitely plenty of other people out there who appreciate the show for its focus on platonic love who stay out of the drama - but it can be hard to find them under all the noise.