Tumgik
#mdzs discourse
piosplayhouse · 1 year
Text
361 notes · View notes
Text
A random, mildly annoying mdzs thing that annoys me that annoys nobody else? In almost every adaptation of mdzs, wei wuxian is wearing red and black. (I saw the donghua back in 2019 and watched it all the way to the end. I've also seen some of cql and read a bit of the manhua) .
It's in the donghua, the manhua, and even the cover of the official English volumes. AND IT'S JUST CONFUSING.
It's confusing because Wwx in Mxy's body also wears red and black, not to mention they look exactly the same in the Donghua. I know why they did it that way, but so many people, including myself, were very lost.
I know it's not something that should bother me, but it does. I'm currently reading the novel and I don't think they ever explicitly say that Wei Wuxian wears the Jiang uniform. (I also don't think they explicitly say that he wore red and black before he became the Yiling Patriarch, but could be totally wrong).
But it would make a lot of sense. Sure, he wasn't born a Jiang, but he's one of the best disciples in the sect. Not only that, but he was adopted by the sect leader, so it only makes sense that he'd wear the uniform.
The reason for his iconic red and black attire in every adaptation is probably for recognizability, but it would canonically make more sense for him to wear the Jiang uniform in the flashbacks (when he wasn't studying at the Cloud Recesses).
That's one of the mildly annoying thing that bothers me about mdzs. Thank you for your time.
49 notes · View notes
labyrynth · 2 years
Text
PSA for “canon jiang cheng” folks:
please stop using the “subordinate” thing as a basis for your arguments. that word does not mean what you seem to think it means.
y’all talk about jc asking wwx to be his subordinate as if it’s like some show of disrespect. some of y’all literally use it as “evidence” that jc “never cared about wwx” and that he “never viewed wwx as anything but a servant” but like.
my friends. subordinate literally just means “someone with a lower rank (than someone else).” it does not carry any connotations of subservience, servitude, lesser worth, or disrespect.
we understand how sect leadership works in mdzs, yes? there is One (1) sect leader.
Everyone who is Not the sect leader, but is affiliated with that sect, is Subordinate to the Sect Leader.
nobody ever claims that lan xichen didn’t care about lan wangji, lan qiren, or any of the juniors, even though they were all subordinate to him as the sect leader.
nobody ever claims that jin guangshan viewed madame jin, jin zixuan, or jin zixun as “just servants” or even servants at all, even though they were all subordinate to him as the sect leader.
hell, nobody even claims that nie mingjue viewed meng yao as “just a servant,” even when meng yao actually WAS a servant!
[edit: apparently some people are taking objection to calling meng yao as a servant? y’all, they literally made him be their water boy. what would you call that?]
that’s just how leadership works! being subordinate isn’t a bad thing!! it’s just “a person who has a boss”
“right-hand-man” IS a subordinate position to “sect leader,” and it’s also literally the highest position jc could have given wwx without quite literally making wwx sect leader!
so like. unless you ARE legitimately arguing that jiang cheng should have forced wei wuxian to become sect leader of yunmengJiang, just…please drop it.
that word Does Not mean what you Think it means. the thing you are Mad about is Made Up. please just let it go.
#mdzs discourse#mdzs talk#mxtx talk#*kicks hornets nest*#canon jiang cheng#IF YOURE GOING TO BE WEIRD AND WRONG AT LEAST BE WEIRD AND WRONG **ACCURATELY**#it was only a matter of time before i tagged a mdzs post with discourse…#i’m just surprised it’s not about jgy#that one catmom person and the fanatic are such egregious repeat offenders#like can you please take off your ‘jiang cheng is an evil supervillain abuser’ glasses for like 5min and realize how ridiculous you sound#can you please behave like a normal person who makes normal person judgements#and doesn’t just swallow whatever weird random rumor you heard from someone’s cousin’s friend#weird judgements like ‘jiang cheng beats children and murders people in his front yard’#i’m still not over that post it was just so 💀💀#like you really think if jc wanted to murder people he couldn’t find a better place to do it than his front yard??#i have them both blocked but i saw a weird reblog on someone else’s post#and i was like ‘wow what a weird and nonsense reply that sounds like they’re replying to someone other than op’#and sure enough#like…setting aside the fact that what jc was actually asking to be able to depend on wwx#esp in context he was looking for support PERSONALLY. not as ‘heir to jiang’ but as ‘jiang cheng son of jfm and yzy’#bc he never felt recognized by his parents! BOTH of them overlooked what he had achieved in favor of praising wwx (jfm) or scolding jc (yzy)#if jc didn’t care about wwx or thought he was above him then why wouldn’t he refute the twin prides thing?#what jc was asking was ‘can i depend on you to be my lifelong friend’#‘can i trust that you will always have my back’#in retrospect if things hadn’t gone to shit so soon after they prob would have sworn brotherhood once they were actually. you know. adults.#anyway#jc is a lot more complicated than y’all want to make him out to be#if your perception of a character limits them to a single emotional spectrum then you’ve done something wrong#he’s a prickly boy that’s it. it’s not that complicated.#hedgehog boy. if u pet him the wrong direction it’s gonna be pokey. ur supposed to pet the OTHER way. it’s not his fault if u pet him wrong.
81 notes · View notes
cum-villain · 2 years
Text
Mdzs fans will call svsss problematic when incense burner is right there. Guys.
5 notes · View notes
ashtifers-ballpit · 1 year
Text
Absolutely fucking wild to me that in certain post canon fics authors will elevate one clan over the other. And I'm not talking about fics that are fun aus exploring different endings to MDZS, I'm talking about fics that directly bash Lotus Pier or the Cloud Recess in favor of saying that the other would protect Wei Wuxian from the big bad cultivation world.
Which doesn't make any sense because the entire POINT of the books (and cql, manhua, donghua, etc) is that the cultivation world is fucked up!! They all fucked up!! If your fav is someone who ISN'T Wei Wuxian the wen renments or mianmian then they are culpable to genocide, which (btw) is fine, you're allowed to have problematic favs but like. Girl what.
Idk it's just WILD to me when someone writes Lan Qiren as defensive of Wei Wuxian (less so when it's Jieng Cheng bc like. At least that makes KINDA sense) when these are characters who, as well as ideologically not even being in the same book as Wei Wuxian, literally labeled him as evil bc of #classism.
6 notes · View notes
poorly-drawn-mdzs · 5 months
Text
Tumblr media
Wei Wuxian eats a watermelon. Yep!
883 notes · View notes
Text
Tumblr media
Critical of what? His massive cock and correct opinions?
626 notes · View notes
3kidsinacoat · 3 months
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media
476 notes · View notes
whetstonefires · 11 months
Text
I know I talk about mdzs modern AUs a lot, but it's just somehow become a fascinating adaptation process to me, all these people making their personal calls about the nature of reality.
And a thing I keep coming back to is all the people who deliberately decide to give modern!wwx Mo Xuanyu's build.
To preserve the strength contrast that's leveraged for horny, which like, yeah that's fair, horny is an acceptable reason to make a story choice. I respect that, sometimes grudgingly.
But as a result of noticing this being done, oftentimes it seems without any reflection about why, I've developed this minor obsession with the fact that wwx in his own body at its adult height was fractionally shorter than lwj.
And this was the height he reached after a multi-year period in childhood living on scrounged garbage, plus the three months starving in the mass grave toward the end of his growth period.
Meaning that by all normal logic, a modern AU wwx who did not experience these periods of intense privation--which is most of them; it's quite rare for children to experience that particular form of total neglect in modern developed nations and modernAU!wwx's life ruining circumstances only occasionally involve intense physical torment--is going to be significantly taller as an adult.
Like. Add a few inches on there.
Where are all my adequately nourished six-foot-four Wei Wuxians???
1K notes · View notes
thatswhatsushesaid · 8 days
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
someone call 911. or the ASPCA maybe
175 notes · View notes
radiantmists · 2 months
Text
i love that the bingqiu ship dynamic is just
Tumblr media
except by the time they get together they've already involved *literally everyone else in both realms* in their drama
195 notes · View notes
piosplayhouse · 2 years
Text
This feels really silly to say but I feel like a baffling number of white mdzs fans somehow don't understand this but umm I know we all think of necromancy as sexy but wwx drafting everyone's grandmas into the skeleton war and fucking up their reincarnation cycle is culturally a very fucked up possibly irredeemable no-no
570 notes · View notes
lgbtlunaverse · 9 days
Text
heads- up: someone is taking jc-centric fics and turning them into jc-bashing wangxian fics
I don't usually like to bring twitter drama over to tumblr but since the perpetrator in this case explicitly said they do this ON TUMBLR I felt it was pertinent to do so.
Today user DyuaLan on twitter, aka @jiaoji on tumblr, publically bragged about finding chengxian, xicheng, and zhanzheng fics and changing the names to make them wangxian fics with jiang cheng bashing.
Tumblr media
When authors (understandably) reacted to this by blocking them, they boasted about still having 15 stolen fics in their drafts on top of the ones they've already posted.
Tumblr media
And that they do all of this stuff on tumblr anyway, not twitter
Tumblr media
If you have written any kind of Jiang Cheng ships, or Jiang Cheng-centric fic in general, and are not a fan of your work being stolen, it's in your best interest to block them.
They also said that they block everyone they steal from. Though if you go to the blog now and are blocked, please don't panic, that might just be for fanwar reasons.
Here's proof that DyuaLan is in fact the same person as Jiaoji:
Tumblr media
(@jiaoji and @jiaoji2 lead to the same blog, it was probably called this because they at some point lost access/moved from their previous blog @jiao-ji)
And here jiaoji is bragging on their tumblr about feeling too lazy to even rewrite someone else's work
Tumblr media
Their ao3 is "Jiao_ji" where they have 16 works total, most of which are in portuguese, making it harder to verify which ones are stolen, as a lot of their "sources" are probably in english. (Most of the fics they have written on tumblr itself are also in english) They also have a wattpad account with the url "Dilf_ji"
As a bonus here they are 2 years ago whining about zhancheng authors blocking them because it means they can no longer steal their fics, this has been going on for a while.
Tumblr media
And talking a bit more about stealing from chengxian and zhancheng authors:
Tumblr media
While I haven't written any jiang cheng ships, I am a fic writer, and I know the work that goes into it. I can work on a single oneshot for months on end. So this kind of attitude, where if you hate a ship the author's work is just free for the taking, is appaling to me. Inspiration is normal, fandom is inherently transformative. Hell, ao3 has a "works inspired by" function for exactly that. But wholesale lifting someone's else's writing, only changing the ship and adding salt about a character you hate? Yeah, no. "Character bashing" fics aren't my cup of tea in the first place, but if you're going to do it, at least have the decency to write the damn things yourself.
I don't like doing callouts, so while I know that I can't really control anyone else's actions, I want to say for my own peace of mind... please just block this person. I don't wanna cause even more discourse. Remember: you don't feed trolls. I posted this because i think writers deserve to be warned when someone is maliciously stealing and editing their work, not to instigate harassment.
181 notes · View notes
miniminijiminni · 3 months
Text
wei wuxian should thank his lucky stars that lan wangji figured out how to withhold his flustered-ness if it meant making wei wuxian flustered bc otherwise this would be as far as they got
Tumblr media
198 notes · View notes
tavina-writes · 4 months
Text
MDZS Society! aka: there's a lot less killing than you'd expect
This follows from this post and also the recent translations of MXTX’s most recent interview (which I can now no longer bother to find bc this has been sitting in drafts for like, siiiix months? More? Oh god anyway.) which reminded me about my feelings regarding MDZS society and how different it is from the martial societies we see depicted in typical modern wuxia. (Small disclaimer, I am a wuxia genre fiend and I love like, thinking about fictional societies so this is like, “AHA! You’ve unlocked my trap card!”) 
For the purposes of this, I’m going to be looking at MDZS/CQL’s depiction of the jianghu (which I think is fairly similar! I don’t actually think the show writers made CQL’s jianghu/martial society more genre typical than it was in the book) and comparing that with modern classic wuxia (mostly Jin Yong and Gu Long works.) For this comparison, I’ll be looking at a Jin Yong book — Legend of the Condor Heroes (which is widely considered the starting point of modern wuxia as a genre) — and one Gu Long book — Dagger Li/Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword (widely considered his most popular work) — and seeing how their societies differ from MDZS society. 
This will likely come in two parts because this one was already getting long, and I don’t think we can fit “how often does nobility exist in a typical jianghu and what do bloodline sects look like normally versus what they look like in MDZS” in this post along with the main topic of “is MDZS society a particularly physically violent place?” 
This post discusses how often cultivators are socially expected to kill people. Like, actual living human beings instead of, say, monsters or ghosts which have been categorized differently than like, human beings. 
EDIT: I forgot to talk about Dagger Li but this was already much too long sorry. Feel free to hmu for more thoughts though.
Now, it might be easy to think that cultivators killing actual people is a really common thing in MDZS/CQL universe! After all, they do have martial arts training and one of the prominent things about the first life is just how many people die both in the Sunshot Campaign and the fallout afterwards. However, I would argue that a lot of the traumas and related issues and reactions that happen in MDZS happen because cultivators are, by training and education, not actually prepared for killing actual living breathing human beings! (And also that the morality of this world prevents it for the most part) 
Now, we do actually get a pretty good window into what the typical training is like for young cultivators in MDZS, because we get a fairly well defined schoolhouse scene where LQR is asking them questions about "how do you tell the difference between various different problems we have to solve?" and "how do you go about fixing this problem?" and none of those include the moral quandary of "if I, a young cultivator out in the Jianghu, see a guy who is doing something I morally disagree with, under what circumstances do I beat him up and/or kill him." This does not appear to enter the curriculum at any point, leading me to believe that the morally correct number of people not like, ghosts or ghouls or fierce corpses, a regular average MDZS cultivator is supposed to have killed is approximately 0.
Which. Is a thing you get in a normal martial arts wuxia jianghu. There is generally the threat of "oh yeah this that or the other faction will be doing shitty things and thereby try to murder you." Instead, in MDZS/CQL most of the heirs of sects are...attending school together. Doing teenage things like partying and gossiping and attending classes.
And sure yes, there was a case of WWX and JZX trying to beat each other up. But the sects did sure let their kids stay at Lan summer camp for months on end (sometimes repeatedly, see NHS) without fearing for their lives or that anyone would steal another sect's techniques or otherwise causing real havoc or intersect warfare etc.
Which is infeasible in any other sort of Jianghu situation. For example, contrast this scenario with this scene from LOCH where Guo Jing's shifus are giving him advice since he is newly 17 and about to set out by himself into the great big world:
Guo Jing therefore bid farewell to his teachers. They had witnessed his battle against the Four Demons of the Yellow River, and were not too greatly worried. The young man had proved that he knew how to use the skills that they taught him. Therefore they let him leave alone. On one hand, the meeting of outlaws in Yanjing worried them greatly, so that they could not ignore it; and on the other hand, a youngster always had to travel the jianghu alone, in order to learn lessons that no teacher could pass on. At the moment of parting, each made their last recommendations. As usual when the Six spoke after one another, Nan Xiren was the last one to express himself. "If you cannot defeat the enemy," he said. "Flee!" He knew that given Guo Jing's dogged character, he would prefer to die rather than to surrender, if he met a master, he would certainly fight to the bitter end, even at the risk of death. That was the reason Nan Xiren gave him this common sense warning. " Martial arts have no limits," added Zhu Cong. " As the proverb says, 'For every peak there is one yet higher', so for every man there is one stronger. Whatever your power, you will always one day meet a foe stronger than you. A true man knows to retreat when necessary, when facing grave danger, it is necessary to contain one's impatience and anger. This what is meant by the adage, « If one preserves the earth and its forests, one does not fear to lack firewood ». It is not therefore not cowardly to take good advice! When the enemy is too numerous and that you cannot face them there, it is especially necessary to avoid being too reckless. Keep in mind Fourth Shifu's advice!"
Does this seem like the sort of advice that any Young MDZS Cultivator would get? "You're a good kid, but when you go out into the world, there will be people who straight up want you dead even though they met you 15 minutes ago, you cannot persist in fighting with these people because they will want you dead and you are a baby cultivator who needs to learn to run away when shit gets rough or you will be dead."
And again I come back to how MDZS cultivators are more like occupational ghostbusters because this really does inform how their society functions and runs and how everyone reacts so badly to the Sunshot Campaign beginning and its aftermaths and possibly explains how JGS could get his way after Sunshot.
Because what happens when you get a society that does train heavily in martial arts and have Able To Kill Real People Weapons who spends most of their time solving very black and white situations of "okay is this ghost whose eating people's livers good or bad? y/n?" and a clear hierarchy of "how do we get rid of the ghost eating people's livers in town x" instead of say "is it morally correct to kill this group of bandits who's been threatening the town" or "is it morally correct to kill this shitty businessman who's been holding people hostage and threatening to hack off their limbs" you have a reduced level of philosophical musing on like, "what is the purpose of martial arts, which is designed to kill people and what do I use martial arts for?" and "under what circumstances and situations would I personally find it morally correct to kill a man?" Which are all questions that Wuxia coming of age stories typically have, and I think MDZS does have, but expressed differently.
Again, it appears that the number of Real Live Human Beings that it is morally acceptable to have stabbed in your life is approximately 0 in this universe, and the expectation that you, personally, might have to fend off people trying to stab you over brunch is also approximately 0.
This also leads to a situation where like, questions of vengeance have very difficult escape hatches! If your parents are murdered on the job by an evil rampaging ghost, this is very sad and tragic and now you're an orphan and of course that's not good, but this is a occupational job hazard, not like, "Yeah Joe Bob from the sect down the street murdered my dad because #Reasons~, and now it's my legacy to grow up to murder Job Bob from the sect down the street to avenge my dad."
(I have a whole essay about how this pertains to both of the Nie Brothers, and how it pertains to JGY and also Jin Ling, and how this seems to routinely fuck people up in MDZS in a very specific way we don't typically see in other wuxias, but this is getting SO long as it is).
But yeah "the socially acceptable number of real living people (instead of ghosts or demons or fierce corpses or whatever) to have killed in your lifetime as a cultivator is approximately 0" means that the Sunshot Generation gets really really fucked up by all of this "killing real people" they did.
Which! might be why JFM was so slow to move on "yeah the Wen are threatening to kill your heirs." <- socially inconceivable behavior. Why society in general is so shocked by Xue Yang and the murder of the Chang <- which would be bad normally but not quite like this. And why no one did anything specific about JGS even if they felt he wasn't entirely correct. What are they going to threaten him with? Death???? A trial of his peers? Social Shunning??? Public shame???
"But Tav how does this relate to CQL!Su She's morality?" I hear you ask. Well you see, the question of "he should've been ready to die for his sect!" is utterly baffling in a society where nobody is expected to be ready to die for their sect on a regular basis because the idea that you should be ready for someone trying to stab you before brunch is utterly nonsensical in a world where most people expect that the baseline number of murders a cultivator does in their lifetimes is 0. That's the world he lives in.
On this regard CQL!Su She is utterly blameless. Nobody handed him a rulebook or expectations sheet for "the sect down the street will try to kill you" nor SHOULD they expect he'd be ready to die at a drop of a hat when no part of the education or social expectations include "ready to die for your sect because it's routine for people to try to kill you."
If you don't even expect to be stabbed and possibly die at a discussion conference where there are lots of cultivators from many sects why on EARTH would you expect to be facing down death in your own home when there's. cultivators here to kill you, this situation is so out of left field?
199 notes · View notes
mxtxfanatic · 1 year
Text
So I just did some math, and y’all got me fucked up. I’ve seen so much handwringing in this fandom about the age disparity between Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian’s body because “oh, lwj is soooooo much older than Mo Xuanyu, it ‘basically’ counts as a grooming that wwx was given such a young body and lwj is still attracted to him!”
It’s literally not true. Lan Wangji is around 33 at the start of the present-day plotline. Mo Xuanyu is 27. Y’all are so full of shit.
The math:
Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are around the same age, give or take some months. They are 15/16 at the start of the Cloud Recesses arc, the discussion conference in Qishan happens less than two years later (16), the Wen indoctrination camp happens definitively when they are 17 (madam yu says so) a year later, then the Sunshot Campaign takes place 2 weeks after that with Lotus Pier’s fall. The war lasts for around a year or two, but wwx mentions he is 20 during the Phoenix Mountain hunt. This means he’s still 20 when he breaks the Wen remnants out of the labor camps 2 months later, and they abscond to the Burial Mounds. For Burial Mounds arc timeline, you have to go by A-Yuan/Lan Sizhui’s. A-Yuan is a teething toddler between one and two (jc deduces) in the Burial Mounds. He’s 15 at the start of the story 13 years later. The Burial Mounds settlement, therefore, lasts about a year. By the time of the siege, wwx should be 21 (again, give or take a few months). Thirteen years later, lwj is 33/34.
Mo Xuanyu, on the other hand, is given a definite age start. He is 14 when he is taken by Jin Guangshan back to Koi Tower. This happens after the siege but  before Nie Mingjue dies (Jin Guangyao mentions this in the chapt. 79 flashback during his argument with Nie Mingjue about Xue Yang), and Nie Mingjue dies a year after the first siege takes place. This would mean that Mo Xuanyu is 14 when the siege happens and, 13 years later, he would be 27 when he sacrifices his body to summon Wei Wuxian.
Mo Xuanyu is not some barely-legal young adult at the start of the story, and the age difference, besides, would be 7 years at most. The fact that this is regular discourse is embarrassing.
896 notes · View notes