#morally grey characters are great

[walrus150915]

I feel like people underestimate Ballister's actions in the movie and dumb him down to be just a guy with sad big eyes when he's literally a metaphor for transphobic gay men who participated in the system based on violence and hate. He's so much more than what fandom makes him out to be and he's quite flawed

Like :/// yes he's cute but let's not infantalize him???

[madreemeritus]

What makes Discord the best MLP character for me is exactly his chaotic nature. His haters would be like "oh he was still an asshole even after being reformed", like, that's the point??? Bro has to unlearn 1000 years of selfish, self-destructive behaviour AND his loneliness. He is a creature of chaos, his magic is normal and natural for him, but for other ponies it is hostile and weird, Discord is seeing as "the other" throught the entire show. He's "too different" from the ponies and the harmony they worship. He learns how to be more selfless and carrying towards his friends, he learns how many of his behaviour are toxic and he is ALWAYS called out when being in the wrong. Fluttershy ALWAYS established boundaries, specially for him, and was never afraid to raise her voice and correct him. And HE LISTENS.

He's more than charismatic and well-designed, he's a perfect example of a realistic reformed villain. Most reformed villains in MLP change their whole personality in seconds once they're forgiven, like, Starlight was literal cult leader that brainwashed and tortured ponies yet she was never held accountable for her actions.

[asha-mage]

Anaiya nodded. "We understand your reasons for disliking Elaida, even hating her. We do understand. But we must think of the Tower and the world. I confess I do not like Elaida myself. But then I have never liked Siuan either. It is not necessary to like the Amyrlin Seat. There is no need to glare so Siuan. You have had a file for a tongue since you where a novice and it has only roughened with the years. And as Amyrlin you pushed sisters where you wanted and only seldom explained why. The two do not make for a very likeable combination."

-The Fires of Heaven, Chapter 27: The Practice of Diffidence

Re-reading The Fires of Heaven has made me increasingly confident in the show's read of Siuan's character being book accurate (an opinion I originally articulated here). I always encourage re-reads of the books, but I would very much encourage re-reading The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven specifically if you are doubting the choices the team made in episode 7.

Cause the thing is, Siuan's central character flaw- the one Anaiya is trying to gently cite above, the one on heavy display all throughout both books via Siuans treatment of those around her, is her complete lack of trust paired with a willingness to force and browbeats others into doing what she thinks is best.

It is, ironically, a trait she shares with Rand- both are unafraid to use their power (physical, magical, political- what have you) to make others obey, and both also are unwilling to demonstrate trust and good faith out of a fear of showing weakness. It's something born inherently of their shared insecurities about their respective positions of power- Siuan's young rise to the Seat and the fact that she is carrying on her conspiracy with Moiraine and Rand's belief that he isn't strong enough/good enough/hard enough to be the Dragon Reborn alongside the tendency of the people he cares about to get hurt or have their lives ruined by simple proximity to him.

Throughout both The Shadow Rising and The Fires of Heaven Siuan uses primarily tactics drawn form the same playbook that would later also lead Rand to disaster in the back half of the series: she comes to view those under charge more for their value to her agenda then as people she should be looking after, forcing Min to remain in the Tower against her will, refusing to make any effort to console or reassure those who care about Elayne (Gawyn, Galad, Morgase) that she is well, and engaging in many actions because their are expedient without regard for their moral implications (ordering Mazrim Taim's execution without trial, lying about Logain being set up by the Red Ajah, manipulation Logain so he has no choice but to follow along with her plan). And I don't think it's a mistake that many of those actions either lead to, or directly follow, Siuan's downfall in the Tower.

In fact, Siuan begins to make the turn in her character after encountering Mistress Tharne, which largely sets in motion Siuan's character arc for the remainder of the series: realizing that she can not force the word to conform to her will, not least of all because she is no longer the most powerful woman on the planet, but more over because it's wrong. Mistress Tharne's rough treatment of Siuan, her complete lack of respect or deference, is a wake call to Siuan that gives her empathy and understanding of the way she treated others when she held power. Much of her arc there after is about emphasizing that point, first as a stilled woman serving Aes Seadi, then as a restored but drastically weakened Aes Sedai.

In this way Siuan gets a taste of what it's like to be on the other side- forced and expected to obey, constantly fighting against a system rigged against her from the start, meant to keep her out of circles of power and away from the ability to make decisions as a woman who can not channel, and then as a Aes Sedai who does not stand high enough in the hierarchy. More over it gives her perspective on why things like the Oaths and the Tower's traditions matter- on the ways the Oaths protect ordinary people and the way Tower traditions like 'staying out of the business of other Aes Sedai' and 'respect secrets of individual sisters and Ajahs' help keep Aes Sedai working together and functional. But it's really her friendships, which she is able make on now even terms, with Nynaeve and Egwene, that help her gain empathy and understanding, and in particular allows her (via her mentorship of Egwene) to try and positively influence the Tower's future via reforms to make it more equitable, less mired and fractious and cracked.

As Amylrin, we're told, Siuan ruled by playing one faction in the Tower against another, widening the cracks between Ajahs and within them so that no one was able to effectively oppose her and her agenda- that is until someone came along who could rally support, to take advantage of those simmering frustrations and angers in order tear her down. But that person, Elaida, shared many of her faults and few of her virtues- instead of playing one faction against and brow beating, Elaida (with the Shadow's help) turned the Tower into armed camps ready to lash out at each other. Siuan's tendency (often cited by even herself) to send sisters to do penance on farms for opposing or annoying her, became Elaida using the same tool to humiliate and punish her enemies and using edicts to demote them to Accepted for being weak, and Siuan's precedent for keeping secrets and working around the Hall became Elaida plotting to kidnap Rand and 'make him supple' via Galina's embassy.

And it's a neat closing of the circle, the kind Jordan really likes to play with, that Siuan's redemption for this is her training of the woman who will replace both her and Elaida. Someone who will actually fulfill both women's ambitions of leading the Tower in the last battle- Egwene. Siuan's justice against Elaida is to help prepare an Amyrlin that will be more then either she or Elaida ever could- someone who will be free of their faults, who will be able to unite the Tower as both women dreamed of doing but never could- who can guide Rand and bind the nations to him, who can serve as a general of the Light strong enough to balance the worst of the Shadow. Siuan teaches Egwene how not to do the things she did, to fall into the traps that brought her down- the arrogance, the pride, the domineering, the compromises with her own morals- and it's that teaching which, in part, gives Egwene the ability to persuade the Tower that still saw her as a Novice....to raise her to Amyrlin of it's own accord.

Siuan still should have been allowed to kill Elaida though instead of the Suffa stuff, I will die on that hill.

[rachel-sylvan-author]

"A Year Down Yonder" by Richard Peck

This and the one before it are hilarious! Highly recommend! The third book just had me sad, so I don't recommend the third. But this and the first one are fantastic! 😊

QOTD: Who is your favorite Gravity Falls character?✨ Answer: Grunkle Stan for me! 🤣

[stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale]

favourite twdg villain?

I'm a fond enjoyer of the St. John's as villains. I don't know if they're my favorite just because they're only in one episode, but I love the concept of this family almost immediately jumping into cannibalism toward the start of the outbreak, dealing in human flesh to bandits, and casually feeding this group their friend's legs.

Like... what the hell was this family like before the outbreak that all three of them were like, "Hey now listen... nothing should go to waste, the dead are eating people so why shouldn't we? We gotta survive and in our defense, we only target those who were gonna die anyway... like y'all."

Dude, Mark was shot in this shoulder with an arrow. He wasn't going to die from that injury. It's so fucked that these seemingly friendly people took the group into their home and then fed them Mark's legs.

If we take the idea that everyone is infected and have the capacity within themselves to become walkers, to become monsters, then the St. John's were infected long before the outbreak, y'know? Not literally, but something was wrong with them and the outbreak just further spread that infection and changed them.

But again, are they my favorite? I dunno if I can say that since I have a lot more appreciation for Lily now. Yeah, some of her writing gets a little wonky in ep3 of TFS when she goes on her monologues and shit, but y'know what? I'm into it.

You have to remember who we're talking about and the fact that she's the antagonist; Lily isn't some anti-hero in TFS who secretly has a heart of gold that's brought to light because she reunited with Clementine... she's a fucked up woman who did fucked up things in the name of survival. She's full of rot now. She sees kidnapping children and turning them into soldiers to protect her home as a means to an end, but she doesn't actually give a shit about the people she's taking. They aren't people to her, they're as the episode title suggests, toys in her game. The only one she sees as a person is Clementine, and while that makes her hesitate at first, she sees Clementine's a prize to bring back.

She remembers what happened in S1; her father had a heart attack and as she tried to save him, Kenny smashed his face in with a saltlick and then expected Lily to just stand up and help him get back to his family because "he did what he had to, he made the hard choice." Yes, Larry was a piece of shit. No one liked him, and you can even question Lily on him and she'll tell you that he has a lot of pain. Yes, it makes him an asshole, but he's still her dad and he's all she has. I mean... the simplification is daddy issues, but in all seriousness, I don't doubt for a second that many of Lily's issues stem from Larry being a shitty father to her.

Then everyone thought she was losing it when she insisted there was a traitor in the group, which she was right about, but she was unstable. She was unwell, but how do you help someone like that when you don't have training to go about it? Then Lily ends up killing either Carley or Doug and the group turns on her, and either she's left behind or she steals the van and runs away.

Then we don't know what the hell happened to her until we see her again in TFS, but like... a lone woman with decay festering inside of her joining the delta? Exposing her to their methods? I mean, what else did she have to lose? She had nothing, she lost everything, and she has a lot of issues. Survival is easy when you're numb, when you don't care about the individual; they're all just cogs churning to make the system run, and if a piece doesn't cooperate, you get rid of it and find a new one.

Plus I think there's something to say about Lily not wanting to be perceived as weak again. That whole display she put on in the cells? Telling the story of what happened to Minerva and Sophie? I get the criticism that it feels like Lily did a 180 between episodes but like... yeah dude, because it's a performance. It's not just her and Clementine anymore. It's a display of power and authority. She's playing the part and thriving in it as she ensures everyone else is terrified of her.

But then when Clementine and AJ get the upper hand? Again, she's not afraid to play up the pleading to earn enough sympathy to spare her- hell, just to let their guard down enough to strike and get the upper hand again. I mean, she's got nothing else to lose, right? If she doesn't go for it, she'll be killed and sure, you can kill her anyway but at least she tried.

Honestly, I look at Lily in TFS and still see that scared little girl playing the tough bitch, just like Carley said in S1. It's just now escalated from "tough bitch" to a downright vile person. She's so... lost? I suppose? Lost within herself and the monstrous means she's taken to survive.

I get the criticisms of how she was used in TFS, but for me, it's like when people complain about Minerva not getting the redemption arc she supposedly should've gotten, y'know? There's no saving her. Lily was never on our side, and there was no getting her on our side. She wasn't ever going to redeem herself. Even if you spare her and she drifts away on her raft, can someone like her actually find redemption? Or will she just find another group that'll feed into her rot?

Truly, I say let her be horrid. Let her be the piece of shit villain with a few fleeting moments of humanity. Let her drown in the blood she's spilled.

[khattikeri]

at no point does the mdzs novel consider nie huaisang morally grey. just because he gets away with what he did doesn't mean the story condones his actions or considers him a good person.

the only thing separating nie huaisang from the majority of the supporting cast's upper class hypocrisy (read: jiang cheng, nie mingjue, lan xichen, jin guangyao, jin zixuan etc.) is the fact that huaisang doesn't genuinely believe that what he does is righteous or justified.

huaisang knows what he did wasn't "right". he knows he used his own class and power to make his brother's murderer fall from grace and suffer tenfold. he's the only one who doesn't have an excuse or some inherent reason on hand when he's questioned.

part of it is because he's trying to avoid actually getting anything pinned on himself, but nie huaisang never once actually tells wei wuxian at the end of the book that jin guangyao deserved what happened, or that whoever did orchestrate everything "must've had a good reason".

nie mingjue, jin guangyao himself, jin zixuan, and jiang cheng would've said the former if they were in huaisang's position. the latter is lan xichen's go-to answer for these sorts of things.

some readers may think this is morally grey of nie huaisang, or that his circumstances were complex -- and while i personally disagree, my point here is that the BOOK lumps him in with all his other gentry peers. he is deeply entrenched in society’s cruel game of politics and cyclical rumors.

the book considers exactly none of those people as truly good. the book is very clear about what it considers right and wrong, and it very clearly slots huaisang with his manipulative proxy revenge scheme into the latter category.

[mz-elysium]

astarion is so vtm-coded im tired of not saying it

"unable to disobey his maker, he was forced to seduce and bring home pretty young things for his master to feed/do wild bloodmagic experiments on and any infraction results in torture funtimes" is classic vtm bloodbonded sire and childe. literally at least three clans could and would do this. "his bond of obedience has been MAGICALLY BROKEN and he's hunting for a way to secure his freedom forever and extract revenge" ok, baby sabbat.

also, the idea of him skulking around TAVERNS makes me laugh every time it comes up. like. no babes. you belong in a laser-lights early 00s industrial rave nightclub. he can even keep his camp clothes on and not be out of place.

his twisted relationship with sex and violence is also ground-floor vtm. everything is violent. everything is murky shades of grey. everything is sexy. masks upon masks upon layers of lies and broken identity.

he's just a lil boy who wants to have fun.

sure sure sure. "bad coping mechanisms" but his story isn't about dumping them, it's about freedom.

he hurts people to feel good. he's sadistic and has a level of excitement around blood and gore that's distinctly Uncomfy. he's a bully, a racist, and a selfish dirtbag who can't see beyond "me and mine" as ppl worthy to consider or care about. don't tie yourself in knots trying to talk your way out of your fave being "bad". the fandom police won't come for you. just EMBRACE IT.

[leemacher]

I've seen a couple of those "not all men- you're right (male character) would NEVER.." posts and it has me thinking about all the characters that this wouldn't work for and it has me dying

"Not all men-"

I mean, I guess? Billy Loomis would 100% treat me like that though, the only difference is that I actually like him.

[chuchu-lovely-munimuni-muramura]

Doesn't matter if you hate her or love her. Personally, I really miss her...

[moondyad]

idk what i was expecting when going into The Acolyte. i didn't really look into promotional material, just waited to watch the show blind, like i do with most media. Mae and Osha were very compelling characters to me. i loved watching a "twins are not the same person" story where as they grow up, even people with the same DNA can choose different paths. which kind of became ironic with the reveal at the end of the season haha. i'm actually so intrigued by Mae and Osha being the exact same person. i desperately want to know how that happened and why Mother Aniseya created/summoned them. that part of the story makes sense and is great to follow along with for me.

my one gripe remains the same. i still can't quite take Qimir seriously. it stems from my understanding of Star Wars. Sith are never portrayed as morally grey in Star Wars. that's a specific request from George Lucas. the Sith were always evil and selfish while the Jedi were always good and selfless. Lucas always despised "grey Jedi" in the legends canon and didn't consider them true to the major canon. interjecting before someone gets mad, i love morally grey characters! i love people taking Lucas's characters and amplifying their grey qualities! however, as i understood it, no Star Wars media would ever show Sith or Jedi as morally grey (unless they were in the process of changing sides or something) due to it conflicting with the core values of those groups and Lucas's vision for them. so, when the goofball side character was revealed to be the big bad Sith i was ??? because it was to my understanding that Sith don't act like comic relief characters or show mercy. apparently this reveal only blindsided me, because i saw a lot of people who claimed to have picked up on it after his first or second scene. blinded by my understanding of the lore, I wrote Qimir off and was waiting for someone darker, more sinister to show their hand. i don't mind this series being the first to show morally grey Jedi and Sith. i love that Sol was so blinded by his righteousness that he could only see a path forward in which he removed one or both girls from their family and way of life. that's crazy! Sol was either on a path to becoming a Sith or staying light enough that he might have lead a splinter group from the Jedi Order, and either option would have been fascinating to watch. i feel like we haven't learned enough about Qimir yet to have his reveal felt earned. Sol's devastating past actions were earned! we got to know him how he is now and the absolute love he holds for Osha despite it being his biggest weakness. all we know is Qimir now. so i guess that's why the goof to Sith feels so sudden and the morally grey actions don't feel earned. i think Osha joining him was super fast-paced and didn't really feel earned either. i feel like he didn't challenge her beliefs enough. Mae did a better job at that than Qimir did. why didn't she just run off with Mae and not choose either side? she got a sick scene where she bled a kyber crystal and the blade turned red, but that alone doesn't make you a Sith. especially since this seems to be the morally grey Sith/Jedi series. what i need from the second season, if there is one, is way more of a focus on Qimir. i need his morality to have felt earned, just like how Osha's and Sol's were.

also insane how Vernestra just swept everything under the rug. another morally grey Jedi to add to the collection.

[harrowscore]

a few days ago i (re)watched the 25th anniversary concert of les misérables and. oh god. i forgot how much this musical did éponine dirty

[rachel-sylvan-author]

"A Long Way From Chicago" by Richard Peck

Thank you @bookishflights for the rec! It made me laugh! ❤️

[ilovefredjones]

something about the same actor playing bolkonsky AND andrey. it makes the audience question how much of andrey’s cruelty is inherited from his father, and how much of it is a result from the war.

both are mentioned in the only song andrey physically appears in: ‘there’s a war going on’ andrey says, a callback to the prologue. in that song, the characters sing ‘the war can’t touch us here’ — an ironic statement, now. and pierre says that andrey ‘smiled just like his father / coldly, maliciously.’

andrey is malicious, and wary, and exhausted. there’s a war going on. his cruelty is echoed in the way the son is playing his father. his father is playing his son. words and notes are sung with similar cadence and emphasis. how justified is andrey? how much did the war change him, or how much can the war excuse his maliciousness? andrey does not break the cycle of his father’s cruelty, but how much of it is his fault? there’s a war going on, after all.

[2dami2furious]

Has miles truly made peace with the reality of who Aaron was, or is he just canonizing the dead and willingly not allowing himself to sit with the reality that his uncle was more than willing to kill a child?

I remember seeing a tweet dogpiling this guy who said that Miles forgiving Aaron for what he did seemed stupid becase he killed Spider-Man and tried to kill him. And although I think that person was approaching the idea in bad faith, I kind of see where they are coming from.

Like yeah, you could say his reaction is perfectly normal, as everyone grieves differently and it makes sense for Miles to want to remember the Aaron he knew, rather than let the last two days of his life cloud the 14 years they had together.

But, it could also be Miles tendency to idolize people and situations because he is quite sheltered. Miles has always had people in his corner and isn’t used to people not looking out for him. There’s a ton of examples but I think the ones most prominent are his infatuation with Gwen, and his failure to heed the warnings he’s given about the spider society.

There’s Aaron’s line, “just keep moving forward” that’s repreated throughout itsv and atsv because Miles is a Spider-Man that is defined by his future, rather than his past. Unlike Miguel, Gwen or Peter who have mountains of trauma informing their decisions, Miles has faced very little hardship, and he appears to be largely unaffected by Aaron’s death. (For the most part, because one could say this his bullheadedness about saving his dad probably wouldn’t have been as intense had he not lost Aaron a year ago)

But I wonder if he remains unaffected because he’s never had the courage to process his feelings, preferring to lock them away and “just keep going”. I wonder if he’s taken Aaron’s dying words and twisted it into a kind of self harming mantra.

[microwaving-tesilid-argente]

inside me there are two wolves. one says "you should OCify muriel before she gets introduced so that you can explore the themes you personally would want to see, before you get distracted by canon". the other says "that sounds like a stupid idea and a surefire way to get disappointed by canon"

[reel-fear]

people who still make Joey the ink demon despite canon steering far away from that being the case this is for you I am sending u kisses XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO <3

People who make Joey well-meaning, sympathetic, a lighter shade of morally grey than canon I am also sending u lots of love <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3!!

And people who generally steer wildly from the direction Bendy takes with its characters and has fun with it I hope to see more from all of ur aus and rewrites!!