#no one other than cas stans and destiel shippers point out the lack of cas

[sky-is-the-limit]

I saw that someone broke the bucktommy situation down in spn terms and I want to expand on that a bit further so that hopefully you can understand how deeply frustrating this whole situation is for buddie shippers.

So not just did a third of the destiel girls jump ship, they immediately started actively hating and destiel and calling anyone who is still a destiel girlie delusional and denying any possibility that castiel is anything other than straight, and like a third of your favorite destiel blogs and fic writers just completely abanonded destiel and completely rebranded for this new ship and started writing only for them. like some of the most passionate destiel shippers immediately left simply because they got dean being bisexual and that's enough for them and they never actually cared about destiel or how queer coded castiel is, they just wanted to see dean kiss a man and as long as dean stays with this new man they are 100% certain to have that. so they cling to this nothing ship with this bland ass character and come at destiel shippers for actually wanting a ship with substance and history between characters who actually have chemistry. and now that the destiel shippers are pointing out hints that point towards castiel being gay and destiel being endgame the new shippers are completely denying any possibility of it and are proving that they never gave a shit about castiel as a character or his struggle as a clearly gay man. they just wanted dean to be bi and kiss a man.

oh and also a bunch of new people joined the fandom after bi dean became canon and they simply don't watch any of the previous seasons because they don't actually care about the show, and then they start speaking about dean and cas as characters as if they know them at all when they have clearly never seen most of the show.

like i cannot express enough how nothing of a ship bucktommy is. almost everything about them is either made up by tommy's actor in paid cameos, or just fanon. they had very few scenes this season, only had two very uninteresting kisses, their chemistry is just really lacking and the vibe is kind of off. and i'm not saying that you can't like a ship that is mostly fanon, i know people base ships off less than this and i genuinely don't care, but it's weird to then completely discount a ship that has been brewing for 6 seasons and pretend that the people who have been following that ship for years are just crazy.

The more yall explain it in spn terms, the more I get sucked into it and I'm not complaining.

Yeah, I understand the frustration because I know I wouldn't even be able to handle Dean, towards the end of spn, dating anyone other than Cas, especially after all they've been through.

But making people feel crazy for it, especially when one is canonically bi, is insane.

What I said on that as an outsider, is that it'd be cool for once to watch the writers/producers take the most loved/popular ship between two queer*coded characters and make it canon.

The dynamics are also different when it comes to a new character being introduced as a love interest and a main character that a large part of the fandom ships with the other main character.

Now I don't know much about Bucktommy as a ship as I've only watched their kiss scene but I understand the frustration of Buddie stans.

I'd lose my fucking marbles if Dean came out towards the end, only to end up with a newly introduced character and not Cas 😭 and as a Cas girl having to watch people shit on him and Destiel just because Dean came out, nah. People would riot outside the CW offices.

Anyway, I'll keep watching the random s6 episodes they show on tv and hopefully that will make me watch the entire thing!!

Yall are making me want to read Buddie fics, stop it before I open a new ao3 tab

[orionsangel86]

Becky’s Treasure Trove of SPN Merchandise

Part way through writing my episode review and I had to stop and go through everything in Becky’s house because there is so much stuff that I can’t stop looking everywhere. 

The fireplace is neatly set up with various Sam, Dean and Cas funkos and figures along with Impala’s, with a collection of plushies and more funkos on the shelf to the right.

In her office she has the patchwork quilt and Paradise Motel model from 8x05 Blood Brothers along with more plushies and funko pops

You can just make out the bunny TFW plushies on the shelf to the left.

So it really is a treasure trove of SPN merch! But I have an agenda and I found it very interesting how the crew set up the placement of this merchandise:

Notice how on the right of the fireplace the two Dean figurines are paired with two Cas’s...

These two are cute and also paired on this shelf.

They are set against a Crowley and a Sam on the other side, though for most of the framing, it was just the Cas and Dean that could be seen...

Others have mentioned this shot. yes, we know that there was a Sam on the shelf as well, but it is interesting how the framing seems to set them apart...

It’s almost like Becky has some sort of preference in mind in how she places her characters... I wonder what on earth it could be.

[dotthings]

Since yes I do remember I have a tumblr and should probably use it to express myself because I’m wordy. After witnessing stan twitter 1,345, on a platform where nuance isn’t exactly common, I have some thoughts.

First: No EP or writer from spn has ever denied Destiel exists or ever told shippers to stop seeing or stop talking about it or mocked us for seeing it in their work. The writing team (which includes several queer writers) continues to work in textual level material as well as subtext and queer coding.

Second: A majority of Destiel fandom doesn’t harass and hate on the cast/crew/writers and we can see how Destiel’s now becoming increasingly textual in intent. We’re pragmatic about the chances of openly declared confirmation. That doesn’t make it less “real.” It’s getting more and more exhausting witnessing a subset angrily shouting down their own ship and attacking the show as a whole. That isn’t how I feel about spn and Destiel and I know I’m not alone on this. I’m not invalidating their rage. I’m tired of all of Destiel fandom being blamed for the behavior of a few and I don’t think the ones who behave like that are how most Destiel shippers act or how they see the situation (which is complicated) or how most shippers feel. Some are more wary than others, without being vitriolic or close-minded about Destiel and canon. Destiel fandom is not a groupthink.

Destiel is an important part of the show. It’s actually the relationship that is my personal heart center, and I’ve been yelled at plenty just for feeling that way about it, but it’s moot, canon made me feel that, canon gave me the ample content for Dean and Cas and their relationship, canon had opportunities to remove it, to end it, and never did. Instead canon built it up and added layers and made them even closer. Their relationship has been part of the A-plot. Even if it’s not the center of the show, it’s still crucial. (When are people going to get this simple concept? Something doesn’t have to be THE center to still be greatly important). For context, I’m a fan of Team Free Will too, and the bro bond, not just Destiel, and have been watching SPN since the pilot aired.

At some point under Dabb’s tenure on SPN, the way canon handled Destiel changed, from subtext, to moments where it broke into full text in ways I could no longer unsee how seriously the writing team takes this ship. I went from calmly resigned it was never going to actually be a thing, to the hair on the back of my arms standing on end because stuff was happening, and continued to happen, and it was no longer confined entirely to subtext, even if it wasn’t consummated or loudly confirmed.

Because there’s still people who straw man this kind of discussion, let me state very clearly: you are not wrong to want more open, loud representation.

Also: there is nothing wrong with wanting Dean and Cas to kiss. Or hoping for a sex scene. I’d be delighted if SPN goes that far. But if you’re out there insisting a kiss or some other explicitly sexual gesture is the absolutely, hard line the only way it will ever “count” you are hurting other fans, you are erasing the actual queer content. If you would burn the internet down in rage because Dean and Cas gets confirmation via a hand-hold or verbal confirmation or even a 3rd party statement penny drop when they aren’t even in the room, and claim that it doesn’t “count” and it’s “not enough” while you go on the attack, that’s not supportive of the ship or the work the writers have done to give it to fans as much as they can.

There has to be room for ships that fall between “loudly openly confirmed with sex scenes” and “nothing in canon backs this ship and it’s only fanon.”

Destiel in canon has had to date more canon build-up, more material, more arcing, than some canon ships in various fandoms. Yet people still deny its validity. Why is that? Why is that?

I’m not going around claiming a ship like that is incredible representation. There’s better representation available. Maybe go support that instead of obsessively attacking SPN, the crew, the cast, and turning against your own OTP.

There has to be room for multiple choice options rather than just “malicious queerbaiters!!” to allow for ships like Destiel where it’s obvious from the canon the creatives are taking it seriously in terms of story but are being held back from taking it where they would like to go with it. We won’t know until spn is over whether Destiel is getting its loudly open confirmation and consummation or not. I’m not making you promises, I’m not claiming to have inside info, I’m not claiming I know how this will go. I’m describing to you what I can see, with my eyes, so far, in both canon, which is borne out by extra-textual comments and incidents, but the extra-textual back-up is just support for what I can see in the canon.

I’d also like to know since when is fandom wank more important than the actual canon content. When did the drama and conflicts within the parasocial relationship between the people who make the show and fans become the thing calling all the shots here while people ignore the canon.

Let’s play a game. Close your eyes. Breath deeply. Imagine SPN canon, everything playing out exactly as it has in canon up to this point, but in fandom there was never a loud group of obsessed antis pounding in your ears calling you delusional or fake fans or ruining spn for seeing it. There were never antis repeating the weirdly contradictory “this show is about FAMILY so Destiel can’t be a thing.” There were never antis twisting the canon into uncrecognizable knots so they could deny and deny and deny how much Dean and Cas care for each other even as friends, along with their phobic anti-shipping concern trolling. There were never antis supposedly on your ship team (Destiel shippers who are hurt and disappointed at the lack of loud, open confirmation, which is valid, but some turned toxic over it) telling you there’s nothing there and you’re only being baited and it’s not real and you’re delusional for seeing it and a traitor to the ship if you see anything good for Destiel in the canon. Imagine you never heard of twitter.

Imagine that.

Would you doubt what’s before your eyes? Would you deny it was valid?

[coplins]

(1/3) Thanks for responding. I totally see the queerbaiting/kill your gays criticism - it's clear from Misha's comments after the fact that he really thought he was doing something supportive and didn't get how it was the opposite. I wasn't upset with ignoring Eileen because that whole plot was so badly written, and I didn't mind blurry wife because that was a story they'd never have time to tell, so leaving it to be your choice of wife/co-parent (Jared's words) worked for me.

(2/3) I don't see Dean's lack of reciprocation as a problem because Jensen and the showrunners have continuously said that is not their intent in writing/acting that character, so anything folks read into it is subtext. Again, Misha thought it would be better rep than it was. It was a bad call. John isn't canonically a child abuser, just a lousy parent. Both Dean and Sam have done so many crappy things as well that honestly, they shouldn't be there by that metric either. 3/4) But I don't think the finale (awkwardly written as it was) cancels out their character development at all. They are different people - back at the starting point, but not the men they were when they started. Dean is emotionally open; he's dropped acting tough and can talk about his emotions. He can be alone and be okay. Sam is no longer afraid of his blood or turning into John; he can be a good dad. I wish we'd seen Jack and Cas, or heard them at least wish them well, even just a prayer. (4/4) But even though that was crappy to leave out, I don't think it negates the show or the characters. 19 added Cas and Jack's names to the table, and I can be happy with that as the final episode. I was prepared to pretend it didn't exist before it even aired. I AM really glad you're anti-harassment. The shit that even folks like Kripke have been getting on their pages has made me so sad. Dabb posted something about baboons and folks even thought it was about them, not his new show! (Also, sorry to dump like a huge text thing in your inbox. It's totally fine that we disagree on things. I've just seen so many crazy things like people blaming Jared and saying the episode was an ad for Walker and to boycott Walker - a ton of Jared hate in general, really. Or saying Jensen "Destiel Isn't Real" Ackles is secretly a heller who's been viciously silenced by the powers that be for years. And now Misha's getting dogpiled for trying to interact and understand how he fucked up.)

It's fine, Nonnie. :)

Okay, so, just to make one thing clear. If you enjoyed the finale, then I think it's great. For everyone who didn't get their joy sucked out of them, that's awesome! I got to see the Wincest side of my Tumblr dash go apeshit from happiness and I'm happy for them. I've since had to unfollow some of those blogs when they turned bitter and hateful towards those of us who didn't like the ending. I curate my Tumblr (internet in general) experience to avoid seeing hate thrown at ships, actors, characters, fans, or people in general. I unfollow people if they post too much toxic stuff no matter if they're Destiel shippers, angel fans, or whatever part of fandom they're in.

I try not to reblog too much angry/bitter crap either. There are a lot of posts on my dash that I wholeheartedly agree with but don't belong on my blog. And I've written my share of wank and rants over the years but seldom hit post because I don't want to ruin someone else's positivity. When I do hit post I tag it "spn wank" so it can be avoided. If I need to angry-rant I do so in chat. Sometimes I mess up. There are undoubtedly some less than nice posts in the Buckleming wank category on my blog.

Generally speaking, my M.O. is disengaging and/or vote with my wallet. I will never condone cyberbullying. No matter how famous the person, or how nasty they are, harassment isn't okay. Actions have consequences and I try to think of what they are before I act. If I vent hurtful opinions about an actor, it'll be kept in chat, with someone who understands that particular frustration. (Not related to the current situation.)

When it comes to canon, it doesn't matter what showrunners or actors tell us about how it's meant to be interpreted or how they meant to act it. Canon is what's shown on screen, period. As curious as I am about what the actors have to say about things, it isn't important regarding canon at all. I'll stan my boys no matter what their characters get up to on-screen. <3

Yeah, I've seen the theories and the dogpiling. Luckily, I've avoided seeing the Jared hate but I knew it would be there because the internet is a cesspool of people lashing out aimlessly or misdirecting their anger. Even IF they wrote the finale in a way that they thought would put a spotlight on Jared's upcoming series, HE was nowhere near a position of power to make that decision and should be left out of it. I just figured, if it was true that that's what they thought, then the Wincest bunch was their target audience for the new show. *shrug*

Interesting to hear your take on the finale. If I follow people who have your take, they're not vocal about it, or I'm simply missing it because I don't stalk Tumblr. All it takes for me to stop scrolling and go back to my writing is 3 unknown anime posts in a row or one reader-insert fic and I'm nope-ing the hell out of here. X)

I'm not going to argue against any of your points. It's great that you saw it that way. Fuck, I wish I did too.

I kinda feel like I need to address the child abuse comment I made, though. Some separate neglect and abuse like those aren't the same, some only count physical abuse, others include verbal abuse. Too many of my loved ones (both close friends and family) have experienced all three of those categories and the one who was left alone to care for her little sister as a child, definitely has a lot of mental scarring from it, so I'm counting neglect as abuse. That said, I fucking love John Winchester. So it might be Jeffrey Dean Morgan's charisma, so sue me. But John canonically neglected the hell out of his sons. We got proof of that even in this season when John drops his son off for days in a town where kids have gone missing recently. So, yeah... But, on the other hand, of course both he and Mary should end up in Heaven. Like, that wasn't even a question.

I think my strong reaction against it was how every part of the found family the Winchesters had gathered over the years was erased from the narrative as soon as Dean died. The only one who is shown as important is Bobby, a found-family member that initially was connected with John, not someone the brothers had found and connected with on their own. Bobby is also the only non-Winchester in the photos Sam has over his bed when he's dying. I don't know, man, "Everyone's here," simply doesn't do it for me.

"Family ends with blood" like the finale implied, only works if the greatest monsters in life haven't been family members, and my best friends (twins) growing up, just like my mother, were abused, mentally, physically, and sexually, by parents. I've seen the aftermath of those hellfires, how long it takes to assemble the fractures of your being and become, if not whole, at least functional and happy. For them, it was the friends they made along the way, those who loved them when they couldn't, who really mattered.

And that was one thing I really loved about SPN (and still do). Team Free Will. Wayward Sisters. All the people that they met along the way and connected with. I've loved to see Sam and Dean develop their bond by taking it from unhealthy, destructive co-dependency to step by step with several setbacks become their own individuals with lives outside of each other, yet still having the strong bond full of brotherly feels where the love they had for each other was rooted in respect for each other's differences and not who they "were supposed to be for each other". And unlike you, I can't see anything but regression in how the finale played out.

Okay, I gotta stop talking now. ^^ I have one scene my betas told me I need to rewrite in my next chapter, and another chapter half done, and I'm itching to post so I need to get on with it.

I hope I didn't put too much of a dampener on your enjoyment of the finale. My opinions don't matter. We all come from different life experiences and therefore find different things compelling and important. I don't begrudge anyone their happiness. <3

*Hugs*

[justanearth-boundmisfit]

It is getting harder day be day to keep our wits together for being a Misha/Cas stan and wanting what is best for the actor and character. Jensen's acting to Cas dying was clearly one where he is trying to be removed from the scene so fans don't read into it and scream Destiel. His face is so animated when Sam is dying or Bobby is dying, but Cas - hell no. I think Destiel fans have ruined Cas and Jensen's acting when he is around Misha. I blame them for Jensen wanting less scenes with Misha. UGH

Hi anon! Fair warning this is going to be really long. Under the cut it goes.

I agree with you that it´s really hard being a Cas/Misha only stan. Sometimes I feel like we are 5 or something around that number. Almost all of the blogs that love Cas, are also hard destiel shippers. And there´s nothing wrong with that in my opinion. We have different points of view. Look, maybe mmm 4 years ago? I would be jumping and celebrating like them (believe me I would be a happier person), but after all this time of being taunted, seeing my ship erased by the writers and some actors, seeing Cas suffering and left behind and a million other horrible things, I became ultra bitter. I can´t stand how they treat Misha and Cas. I see them first, I will defend them first. I don´t care about a fucking ship. I can´t see Cas hurt and jump because he said I love you. All I see is my angel hurt again and again. And I can´t be happy about that.

Destiel has become a touchy topic for a lot of people. Years ago we didn´t have this rabid obsession. But well, what can we expect? The subtext WAS there, everything was there. We were not delusional. As critic as I am of the deancas interaction nowadays, they made destiel seemed a possibility with a lot of baiting. A LOT. There are tons of posts in the early stages of destiel, analyzing the light, the way the scenes were filmed, the looks between the actors, under a romantic construction. And ALL of them were right. They knew it, they played with it, they played with us, and when it became a huge topic of discussion and incredible popular, they dropped it, they erased it, they shamed us. To be clear when I say “they” I´m talking about producers, writers, the network and, to an extent, a certain actor. 

After that, they tried to “fix it”, they kept Cas and Dean apart, the interaction was minimal, the relationship became less than a friendship. When this happened the destiel fandom broke into groups, there are people who hate it with all their hearts now, there are people (like me) who don´t hate it but don´t see it anymore and we hold on to the vintage destiel through fanfic, and there are people, the majority I think, that want destiel so much that they are fine with every little interaction they get between Cas and Dean. Some of them reach too much and this is what bothers a lot of people. I give you an example: Misha tweeted about the syrian refugees and the first response that he got was someone shouting destiel is real! I kid you not. THAT kind of behaviour is getting really tiresome and disrespectful. 

Which brings me to Jensen. I think he is a great actor. Really. He can show 5 emotions with only one look. And the chemistry he has with Misha is undeniable. Was he aware of his acting choices when destiel was developing? I doubt it. Although Misha seemed to know that the writers and directors were pointing at something, he had said this. But Jensen is another story completely, he really is no homo with Dean, he has constructed this character on this basis, Dean is Jensen sometimes, Jensen is Dean sometimes too. And he interprets Dean as straight. And that´s ok, too, because it´s the way he reads it. It´s the way he sees it. Nobody knows Dean more than Jensen. But that gives him no right to treat fans with disrespect when they have another reading. Because again, maybe he didn´t see destiel, but it was there. And people have a right to see things different, all forms of art are seeing from different points of view. And what he does, getting mad, answering with contempt and disrespect, erases a great part of the fandom. Although some destiel shippers are extreme, not all of us are or were like that. We don´t deserve that lack of respect, nobody deserves that for asking about a queer ship. And for that I blame Jensen and Jensen only. I´m not afraid to say it. He can talk about hetero ships but when a question about destiel is asked he gets mad? No, no and no. Something is wrong there.

Is his acting reflecting how uncomfortable he is with this? Yeah,for me, it is. Can he erase years and years of destiel subtext? Hell no. But it´s not only him: the writing and the direction have changed. All in all, there is a whole group of people trying to erase destiel, with our homophobic friend Robert Singer at the helm. And in this is when we find how blind destiel shippers can be today. Tptb don´t want it, Jensen doesn´t want it, a whole bunch of their homophobic audience don´t want it. It is NOT going to happen. Spn is a dude-bro-no-homo-everythin-is-white show. That´s the reality. That is what they want to transmit to people. Nobody is going to change that. No matter how much some deancas fans tweet to the producers/writers/actors, no matter how much they shout it at conventions, no matter how many questions they make. They can have whatever interpretation, but as I said that is not going to change reality. 

(Ugh anon sorry this became so so long. At this point you must be sleeping. But I wanted to vent about this and you gave me an out.)

So I can´t blame destiel fans for Jensen´s change in his acting. He is the one who chose that, because no homo! He is the one responsible for his acting choices. As a professional he shouldn´t change the way he plays Dean because of the interpretation of the fans. Imagine every actor in the world doing that. Impossible.

What I don´t like about destiel shippers is when Cas is only important because of a ship. When Cas is being tortured/destroyed/dying/bleeding and all they see is how Jensen turned his head and “destiel happened”. Cas is such an interesting character, with so many layers, that he is iconic by himself at this point. I think that we can´t see his actions only through destiel shipper eyes. Imho It´s a disservice to Misha´s wonderful acting. 

Again sorry for this long mess, I hope I didn´t bore you to death. And please forgive the mistakes and typos, english is not my first language. Take care anon!