#not saying he should be deplatformed

[magic-can]

MR. ENTER TURNED OFF COMMENTS ON HIS TURNING RED REVIEW LMAO

[calamitydaze]

it’s weird because I’ve been feeling guilty for not feeling guilty watching dream’s content idk how to explain it

no i see what you’re saying! it’s a common sentiment i’ve been getting, that people feel weird or wrong for not reacting the way the most people seemed to, but i don’t think you should feel guilty for that either. like i said a few days ago there’s no guidebook for this situation, so if still watching and enjoying dream is a choice that feels moral and comfortable to you right now then you do you! (assuming you aren’t a victim-blamey freak but judging from your ask i don’t think you are)

[zeta-in-de-walls]

One more thing on Dream.

He is never going to confess. He will never say he knowingly groomed a minor or anything like that. He will keep lying forever.

Given that, I think he's already been successfully deplatformed. Like yes he has a few defenders but I think they are an extremely vocal minority who either know all about the allegations and doesn't care or are in extreme denial.

Dream doesn't have an SMP anymore. No CC is going near him except his extremely small circle of friends. He is toxic to any other. He has produced a little content over the last year but I'm confident the numbers are dire especially compared to what they were.

The victim's stories are out there and they're well-circulated. I doubt Dream is gaining any news fans anymore and hopefully he will struggle to take advantage of his dwindling fanbase in the future.

Dream's going to keep doing and saying controversial things forever. And we'll think we need to give his nonsense attention. But you know. I'm not sure we need to. Dream feeds off attention and in many respects the harshest thing we can do is to ignore him. Let him fade into irrelevance.

We should definitely decry Dream's general attitude towards his fans of course. The horrendously predatory and creepy parasocial relationships he fostered very deliberately with his fanbase is wrong. There may be future CCs like Dream and I don't want to allow his antics to exist.

[anachronistic-falsehood]

i. don’t really know what to think about the whole forever situation. because i have seen people say “he’s addressed this a long time ago so why are we bringing it up” but i haven’t seen WHERE he’s addressed it in the past. nary a tweet or clip of anywhere he may have talked about it, but i would love to see an older clip of him talking about this if possible

I’ve seen people say “his tweets and messages were translated in bad faith to give english speakers a bad perception” which. ok yeah understandable but if that’s the case i still don’t know what exactly the situation is or how serious it is

“she was 13” “she was 15” OK WHICH IS IT!!! both are bad but one is still significantly grosser than the other and i don’t know which is true!! or are there multiple girls!!! i don’t know!!!

“he met a fan for flirtatious/sexual reasons” “he met a fan for normal content creator reasons” WHICH IS IT!!!! I DON’T KNOW!!! i guess only he and the fan would know what the intent was when they met, and even then i don’t know if they met alone or if it was a normal ass fan meetup with multiple other people there

“it’s been 7-8 years, he’s changed” ok. now we are making some sense. he has not exhibited this kind of behaviour in years it seems and he appears to be the kind of person who would not say or do these things now. no one is irredeemable and no one is beyond change. still, it is important for some people to know. many fans would rather know this and make the educated choice on whether to support him or not than continue to support him in blind blissful ignorance. even though it’s stressing me out and i’m still clueless about a lot of it, i’m glad i know anyway.

“what about the past transphobia and the ableism and the and the and the-” That Is Not Relevant To This Conversation. this is a different situation. he has apologized for his past opinions and everyone has had ample time to come to terms with them and make peace with supporting him despite his past beliefs.

“he’s deleting past tweets” i mean if someone was digging around my account for things i’ve said that i no longer stand by, i would delete shit too. sure as hell doesn’t make him look innocent but i would do the same. i HAVE done the same, albeit for much more minor and trivial reasons for posts i made when i was like 15, but still

“he apologized and said he’s getting a lawyer!! no guilty person would do that!!” your content creator is not an angel. guilty people take their accusers to court all the time and get away with it. also, it is up to everyone individually to decide whether to believe him or not. you cannot push others to believe your side but you can give context to some things

there’s nuance to this like there is with everything, and people are jumping to conclusions saying either “he’s an innocent little lamb how dare you!” or “he should be deplatformed and we should never speak of him again!” i will never fault anyone for supporting the alleged victim. if your decision is to stop watching him immediately or even stop supporting the qsmp itself, no one should ever fault you for that. it is ultimately up to you to make that decision. the situation is not clear enough for me to make a decision, so i will withhold judgement for now. i will not doompost about it, and i will not call out people for defending or dropping him.

but for the love of god, just. everybody keep your cool. especially english speakers, we may not have full proper translations for the messages and tweets. take a deep breath. if you want to find more info to form an opinion now and spread information that people don’t already have, go ahead. if you want to step back and not think about it for now, go ahead. there is no shame in taking a step back and thinking about other things. you are not morally obligated to be invested in this situation. you are not morally obligated to drop him immediately and you are also not morally obligated to keep supporting him just because he’s friends with your favs. stick to your gut and do what you feel is right. you will be okay. this is not the end of the world.

[i-dont-know-i-just-like-dragons]

The way everyone is dealing with this situation is so dehumanizing to the ccs involved.

You demand repentance from Wilbur but it's not us who need to be apologized to. Surely his actually in the music industry pr team will have him say something but that's not the most important thing. We don't know what Wilbur knows and we don't know what Shelby knows, this could be playing out in so many different ways that we don't know about.

I've also seen people angry that other ccs haven't unfollowed Wilbur on everything. How would you feel about your friend doing something like this? You'd want to help them through it, right? Abusers do terrible things, but behind that is poor mental health, a difficult upbringing, stress, bottled up emotions, and any other reason you could imagine. They need help. They aren't going to get it in isolation.

If you're expecting ccs to disassociate I don't think you want him to get better, you want to "hold him accountable" whatever that means; when he's deplatformed he can hurt more people and you won't have to hear about it because he's nobody anymore. They are people first, you can't expect them to do things that could potentially make the situation they're in (and likely wondering what to do with) worse for them and their friend who like I said needs help. If you cared about him healing and not hurting more people you'd realize healing doesn't happen in isolation.

There's no excuse for the things he did, that should go without saying. Abusers can heal and the first step to that is realizing you have a problem, I think he already has and if he hasn't this is sure to wake him up.

You can and should reblog this

[citrus-blade]

'Quackity probably didn't even know!'

It's his server. If he actually doesn't know, then that's a problem. It's neglect of the people who play on and work for this server. This dude can't constantly say how proud he is of his project and then not be involved enough to know what is happening behind the scenes.

People weren't allowed to talk about Wilbur or Forever because it was seen as CONTROVERSIES. That is actively protecting abusers from being deplatformed! That's also not controversies; those are actual abusers who hurt people and shouldn't be swept under the rug!

When you want to start a project that is about connecting people from different communities and in different languages, you can't make your admins sign an NDA! You can't force them to not talk to each other when it comes to said projects and therefore stop them from knowing about events soon enough.

This isn't some school project where someone puts zero work into it and then takes all the praise for it. This is about people who try to make a living out of this, and paying them minimum wage is vile. They do so much work! And the admins on Twitter who look for clips and make edits, etc., don't even get paid AT ALL. One admin drew a commission and never got paid for it!

Also targeting certain Eggs where the streamer will have the most emotional reaction just for content is disgusting. It gives off emotional manipulation vibes. Some streamers were actually in distress because of this and all for content!

One admin was afraid to talk about the 🍉 genocide (don't wanna get this into the tag cause it's more important to use it to spread awareness) because they feared getting fired! Don't you see how fucked up this is?

I just can't believe that Quackity wasn't aware of ANY of this stuff. And again, if he was, that's just as problematic!

I really hope that all admins will start a strike to finally get the payment they deserve. I hope the CCs playing on this server aren't aware of any of this (but considering how some said how tiring they felt from the egg stuff only for one day later to praise it, I doubt they don't know at least a bit). I hope Quackity finally has the fucking balls to talk about this. Just ONCE he should open his mouth and address this.

And if y'all don't see it the same way, then I have lost all hope in humanity.

[kitsu-katsu]

Being able to actually read and understand portuguese yesterday felt like such a curse, because MAN was the shit that Forever said both in those og messages and in his addressing of it fucking awful

He literally just went "it's all the haters! I'm gonna sue you all!" And then compared himself to a girl who actually commited suicide recently because of online harassment

And the people's reactions over on twitter? Fucking awful. It's just like the Dream situation but more blatant in a way

Minors themselves were going on twitter.com just to say how the law would let a 21 year old doing things with 14 year olds pass. Or they made up that he had already apologized (he hasn't, they brought up the transphobia apology from months ago) and also it wasn't a big deal at the same time. Or they went "YOU'RE ALL HATERS! BRINGING UP SOMETHING FROM 2017!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED"

Buddy, please, for your safety, TALK TO AN ADULT ABOUT THIS. It is not ok, it's very serious and trying to bury it and now burning the evidence on Forever's part is not a way to say that "he moved past it! It was 7 years ago, we all have flaws!!" Like yeah, we do all have flaws, but this isn't a case of "my parents brought me up with homophobic rhetoric so I grew up saying homophobic things but I've changed to be better" you know? No, this is a man who at 21 years old contantly messaged (and even met up at least once with one of them) 14 and 15 year olds talking about very sexual things involving them and him

I do not give a shit how many years have passed, you don't get to just "move past" that. Much less as he's doing trying to delete all evidence, threatening decryers with legal action and acting as a victim

This man needs deplatforming QUICK

[spacelazarwolf]

"TMA/tme is just like any other axis of oppression, like black/white or abled/disabled!!" Except it's not. We say black and non-black, not antiblackness-affected and antiblackness-excempt, because we understand that there are non-black people, such as South Asians and Melanesians and other POC who can be affected by antiblackness. We don't say ableism-affected and ableism-exempt because we understand that oppression is dynamic and abled people can still face ableism, especially if they become temporarily disabled. We don't say homophobia-affected and homophobia-exempt because we understand that non-gay people can face homophobia, and no, it's not misdirected homophobia, it's homophobia. If a straight boy gets beat up in an alley for wearing lipstick, it's homophobia, plain and simple, not "misdirected homophobia". Should said straight boy be a spokesperson on homophobia? Probably not, but he was still still a victim of homophobia. No one is saying trans women should be deplatformed from talking about transmisogyny, and yes, trans women face the majority of it, but that doesn't mean that GNC cis men, women of colour, men of colour, and trans men are exempt from transmisogyny. Nobody is exempt from facing bigotry.

^^^^

[ysolt]

not exactyl a fan how people spin things to say you should never call out abusers and bad actors online ever due to this and that fault with callouts. especially not a fan of people saying even if the accusations were true they shouldn't be called out for this and that reason. the "tumblr callout" as it stands is 9 times out of 10 an anon going "my coworkers cousin's brother in law heard that this person saw user @-" and only the remaining 1 is actually credible with well established evidence, documentation and testimony of victims.

transfems being falsely called out over things they havent done is horrible and inexcusable and directly benefits actual abusers and predators by making accusations of them less believable. its also blatantly a tactic to socially isolate them because a lot of people are just looking for a reason to inflict hate unto transfems. we have to work on fact checking accusations before spreading them, not believe anons without proof and make sure the information presented isnt distorted in some way. and maybe solve the rampant transmisogyny problem that causes people to lie about things like this in the first place

regardless. there is the 1/10 time the wolf actually shows up. some people, especially popular individuals, should be warned and informed of. toonimals comes to mind. without site moderations doing something about them, aside from warning people and deplatforming them there isnt another option besides letting them get off scot-free. this is especially damning if they have a habit of establishing contact with people to exploit and abuse them. doing nothing will just lead to more victims. but again, this cant happen via she says he says, these accusations have to have evidence and credibility. if you send an anon "hey this person you reblogged did xyz" there better be a link to some form of information included.

callout culture sucks. callouts are sometimes necessary. false callouts only help abusers and harm innocent people. think before you reblog stuff

[eruhamster]

james somerton apparently left a suicide note on some social media of his and hasnt been heard from and twitter has been trending about it all day because the conversation seems caught between 'oh well we hope he didnt commit suicide but no one is at fault for that' and 'hbomb is a woke devil and killed this guy. i only care because i hate hbomb' and like

it's legitimately so fascinating how hard it is for people to see any sort of middle-ground. that a guy making huge amounts of money, over $30k/mo on patreon, to create hours-long, snarky videos exposing people for their actions, who clearly knows these videos are done in a way that they incite a harassment campaign every time... and who continued to bring somerton up on twitter ... might be at least partially culpable if it turns out somerton did commit suicide.

obviously somerton needed to be deplatformed, obviously his plagiarism needed to be exposed, but hbomb's videos like the plagiarism video essentially function as the new Content Cop and go out of their way to incite harassment and hatred of the person for their actions, rather than only bringing the actions to light. these videos of his are so long because they hammer home "look how bad a person this person is! don't you hate him? look at each and every shitty thing he did! isn't he so shitty?!" - the plagiarism video specifically being long because it did that on top of going "and look at this even SHITTIER guy!" multiple times until you reached the final 'most shitty guy' of james somerton.

and it even struck me back then how malicious that video was when i couldn't make it past the internet historian part, because he began that section by saying how he personally doesn't like the guy, and then went on to compare entire paragraphs of text that were nothing alike, and 'expose' this guy for what really amounts to a minor citation issue that was dealt with privately and reuploaded without an issue - he was exposing a guy for 'plagiarism' that was already handled and removed, because he didn't like him. and then went on to go and push on to expose an entirely different guy as 'even shittier!!!' - you can't so recklessly be making malicious videos like that and not be criticized for being the cause of a mental health crisis.

it is very fascinating to me that no one really wants to think about what everyone on the internet hating you can do to a person. but maybe that'd mean people would have to think about their role in somerton's death (if he did die, that is), and that's not a can of worms a lot of people are interested in unpacking.

it's really reminiscent to me of celebrity journalism of the 2000s. stuff like TMZ, tabloids, paparazzi are all understood today as having caused many mental health crises in their time. the digital version of it, youtube 'journalists' and the following commentary youtubers and twitter dogpiles can just as easily cause that same issue. this should not be controversial to say. it's common sense.

[areus-in-a-little-cave]

I wanna comment on something I'm seeing that is deeply annoying me again. I am glad to see several posts similar to this, though.

Firstly, please stop acting like this is an "us vs them" situation but making the "them" be people on your own side who aren't responding to things perfectly. The problem is the people defending Wilbur, attacking Shelby, and spreading hate.

Do not take your anger and upset out on other people, because people are going to feel and respond differently but most people are supporting Shelby. It can be hard to see but people are usually trying their best and not trying to hurt others with what they're saying. You can both support Shelby and want Wilbur gone without agreeing on every opinion. Stop harassing people for responding differently to you. If their opinion is harmful, maybe try explaining why instead of harassing.

Secondly, please stop acting like every CC is this deeply evil, deeply toxic, abusive, horrible person because they haven't made a public statement about Shelby's abuse.

[Image ID: A screenshot of Shelby's alt twitter account's liked tweets. The tweet shown is by imiziee, one of Shelby's mods, and is a quote tweet. It reads "pls dont be like this. its been 2 hours since he posted it. people take different times to process that theyve been manipulated and friends with an abuser, calm down. instead of hating on people why dont you show support for shelby?? #ShubbleSupportSquad". The tweet it is quoting reads "the silence from his closest is so damning. fuck philza, tommy, jack, niki, tubbo, charlie, lovejoy, quackity" before it cuts off.]

This is from Shelby's likes, it's written by her mod. Shelby herself then likely agrees that this is a reasonable standpoint.

CCs should be supporting Shelby, of course. They should regardless of how close they are to this. However, we know that Wilbur manipulated people, close friends according to replies we've seen. We don't know what the behind the scenes is right now. Imagine if it was you and your closest friends, who you have known for years, and literal millions were watching you. It might take a few days to come to a conclusion, to say something, and I'd personally rather a CC come in a little late than rush an empty response.

I'm not expecting everyone to be perfect in their response, but a response is a response. Again, we don't know what is happening behind the scenes. I understand that public support of Shelby from other CCs is very important, but private support can be very helpful for them. This isn't about the fandom.

There's a difference between supporting Shelby and deplatforming Wilbur. They're connected, obviously, but given that Shelby is another CC, there's more ways to support her compared to previous cases of mistreatment allegations against a CC where it's someone without a platform coming forward.

Stop supporting whoever you want, and do whatever makes you comfortable. But stop attacking people and demanding they stop watching CCs because "all men are horrible monsters" and "all CCs will disappoint you" and "you support abuse if you watch any CC who could possibly support an abuser or abuse". Which ignores the fact that anyone could be an abuser, and abuse isn't a CC issue, this isn't an MCYT issue, it's a society issue. Yes, some groups, especially white men in positions of power, are in positions where they can abuse people easier. But literally anyone could be an abuser. That's part of what Shelby talked about.

I doubt that it's healthy to assume everyone wants to hurt you, to harm others, to abuse and manipulate, and that you can never watch or enjoy someone because they might be bad or support harmful people. Obviously, it's understandable to think that obsessing over a CC is bad because it is. You shouldn't put people on a pedestal and say "they could never do that!". But I'm seeing blogs who have been devoted to a CC and/or their character(s) for 3+ years talking about why you can never find comfort in a CC, and should distrust all of them completely. Like dude. It's fine to like a CC who may not be related to this at all.

We know according to Lexie that some CCs knew about abuse she faced and didn't do anything, in fact they kept hanging out with these people. It's fine to be wary, to stop supporting people who it could be. Because I'm sure there are people behind the scenes who knew something.

But again, the random tumblr blogger who wants to grant a CC a chance to get their thoughts together instead of making a shitty statement is not your enemy! Guilt tripping and harassing people into never thinking about any CC who could be related is not an effective way to support Shelby, and it does not make this seem like something that is about abuse. It makes this seem like online discourse.

This is not drama. Stop treating it like drama where you need to throw around buzzwords. You cannot "win" supporting someone. The only "right" opinion is supporting victims of abuse. People can feel different ways about CCs who did or did not respond. Stop saying people are horrible because they didn't loudly, actively denounce a CC who hasn't responded in one day to possibly finding out for the first time that one of their closest friends is an abuser. That's not supporting Shelby.

[cxyotl]

after reading some more stuff on the qsmp discourse i got one thing to say. you mfs crying for quackity to get deplatformed bc hes not interacting with dream anymore are insane. for many reasons but a few specifically come to mind

1. you do not know the nature of drm and quackity’s relationship. you do not know these ppl. yall are just as bad as dnf shippers, reading into the personal lives of two grown ass men yall aint even know.

2. it’s completely normal for a person to stop interacting with someone after finding out shady shit abt them. whether its true or not, those kinds of accusations are sometimes enough to break contact w ppl bc its better to be safe than sorry, especially in this industry.

3. nobody owes anyone jackshit. no explanations, no apologies, no contact. i bet some yall dont even remember roscripts bc of how quackity handled that. and frankly, that was the best way of handling it. stopping contact w ppl who are even potentially fucked up makes things easier for all parties in the long run. it aint “pushing it under the rug”, its being responsible. dealing with private shit PRIVATELY.

4. that said, dream is making things worse by making public posts about shit that does not concern us in the least. if he wants advice, he can go to his friends. not us. we are not his friends. YOU are not his friend. getting mad on his behalf bc quackity isnt talking to him anymore is doing nothing in the long run.

5. dreams been in these doxxing situations before. i see no difference between now and the hundreds of previous times. quackity didnt cause these doxxes because of an smp. that sucks that dreams family is getting targeted, genuinely, but frankly that is also a private matter to be handled privately. you should never admit to MILLIONS of ppl how scared you are or how much danger youre in bc of a doxx, because that creates a bigger target on your back. the mfs who are bored enough to doxx him are just getting satisfied with how well their tactics are working.

thats all ig. no more comments from me 👍

[cupcraft]

I thankfully havent seen anything of this vein but just to be clear like with the tommy video it's important you really don't make it about dream at all, regardless of you still stan him or you're like me and wish he'd be deplatformed forever. It's not about dream, and it never will be. It's not about anyone other than tommy

This is a serious matter that is absolutely i'm sure a traumatizing experience and we should all be glad Tommy is hopefully okay now to the pt he feels comfortable using it as a point of humor in his live show and we should be glad he had his parents and others to support him in that moment. To truth, make it about discourse, or make it about anything other than Tommy shows you don't care about the severity of that situation. We must talk about these things with care and empathy always. just thought i'd say this and once again happy tommy's okay and safe <3

[wildpeachfarm]

Hi! I hope you’re doing good

I’ve seen a few anons mention how it’s okay to only be here for Dream/dteam. And how a lot of the other Minecraft-based CCs are seemingly jealous of all the success Dteam have had, and think that deplatforming them will make way for us to move to their content. And I want to say I agree.

I became a fan of (dream first, then SNF) them in 2020 when it was peak Covid time. I was a sophomore in college, and my brother was in kindergarten; I was trying to find things to relate with him, and stumbled into the Minecraft sphere, cause he likes Minecraft. I was hoping to find someone current and semi-child friendly, and I stumbled upon dreams videos. I watched them first before showing them to my little brother, and after deciding I liked them, we now watch dreams videos together.

As someone who had limited access to the internet as a kid, and knows like next to nothing about Minecraft, I’m really only here for Dteam. Cause I enjoy their content and it brought my brother and I closer. If I stop being a fan of Dteam, I’m honestly probably going to just leave the Minecraft sphere altogether, considering Dteam are what’s keeping me here (not that I haven’t met some amazing people, but you get what I mean).

It’s very telling the agenda of these CCs the more I become offline and take a look at the bigger picture. I said this earlier, but their content is based on a fleeting hatred for the internets current punching bag. If they ever stop expressing hatred or, god forbid, Dteam get deplatformed, all the “fans” they think they had will be gone. Because with no common perceived enemy, there’s nothing keeping them tied to those creators. And so they’ll go back to whatever they were doing before-hand.

I wanted to extend some semblance of sympathy to these CCs, cause it’s really hard to make a career out of this, but they’re also going about it the wrong way, and my sympathy doesn’t exist anymore. If the only content you have is performative activism, then maybe you should consider a different career path.

Adding on to that, let’s say I do stop watching Dteam, or the “behind the scenes” stuff wasn’t just petty grievances. Why would I then go watch the people that have been harassing, bullying, threatening the same people I was just a fan of the entire time I was their fan? If dteams morals are so bad, what makes theirs any better? And why would I support theirs, when I wouldn’t support someone else’s bad morals? (Again, hypothetical, cause I’m still a fan and all the “bts” stuff ARE petty grievances).

They’re so blinded by their hatred and jealousy that they cannot see they’re destroying their own careers with this. There’s a reason outside of Twitter, a lot of people don’t know who these creators are, and the only reason they do is because they stick their noses everywhere.

It’s become apparent the last few weeks that outside of Twitter- where their core fanbase IS NOT- people are seeing these CCs for what they are and it’s driving them away from any content they might produce. They’re driving away potential fans acting like this, and they can’t even see it, cause they’re so focused on dteam (mainly dream). Maybe focus on your own career, before trying to take down someone else’s, especially when you have nothing career-ending over them.

So again, why would I stop being a fan of people I liked for so long, and stuck around for the good, bad, ugly, and sometimes dangerous (gotta love doxxing /sar), to immediately go be a fan of people that contributed to the absolute onslaught of horrid treatment of the people I was a fan of? It doesn’t make sense.

Unlike them, I’m not going to compromise my morals and make a big public spectacle to then privately do the opposite. I dropped Wilbur after Shelby came out with her story. I was more than willing to drop Dream if his allegations were proven correct, and the same goes for George. That’s what these CCs don’t understand. I’m a human first before I’m a fan. And that humanity stays with me wherever my interests take me.

Sorry it’s so long; I know you probably have a lot of asks. But still appreciate you taking the time to read this anyway.

Have a good day, my favorite source of tea!

-L :)

Thank you for sharing L ! I think you bring up some very good points about consuming content/CCs and just Being A Person

[yonpote]

another thing is like... under capitalism, business success and wealth begin to alienate you from others who don't have that. and that alienation can feed into greed, like why not keep investing and making business deals and buying expensive stuff? and no one around is really going to call you out because they are either capitalist hacks or maybe people who once struggled who now rely on you.

so like, I don't inherently expect much from creators like dnp who come into money. even though they probably have more financial freedom than many other creators because of all the tours, books, games, etc (because they are good at business!)

so like, as their fans who ultimately are their consumers, I think it's good to call them out, especially because they have shown before that they have good intentions.

am I expecting much from them? no. wealth can be corrupting and speaking out comes with risk to business/career interests. but they have a special relationship with their audience, as we're mostly all fellow queer and neurodivergent people with similar interests. so we can provide feedback and be the ones to try to ground them and be like "hey that wasn't cool please do better." stopping engagement with them and their content entirely doesn't really do anything to help, unless they did something they needed to absolutely be deplatformed for. stopping engagement is a valid personal choice, but when I see stuff that begins to resemble like 'they aren't being activists right now time for everyone to unstan' I'm like... if that makes you feel better, fine, but I would rather parasocially / affectionately be like "hey I expect more from you!" in a way that is constructive. which is something I would want to do with my friends, but the difference is, if my friends didn't change or try to then I probably would distance myself from them. Whereas Dan and Phil are entertainers we don't now irl, we have a different relationship with them. but compared to many other creators, they really do tend to be more sensitive to their audience (which has helped their success).

but so this time the (mostly leftist) phannies calling them out actually got them to do a fundraiser so that's cool! even if it's because of the backlash like, that's what the point of backlash is! we should want people to change behavior. not to just abstractly punish them, for something they could be unlikely to do without pressure. though hopefully it will lead to less instances of having to pressure them.

idk this brings up interesting stuff about parasocial relationships, the transactions between creators and their audience, and capitalism. so of course I had to rant about it for a sec lol.

thats completely true! thank u for the rant lol but yeah i dont want to come across as being like, NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING FROM YOUR FAV CREATORS it was more like, with dnp specifically we know where their heart is i guess so it can be unnecessary to call for whatever. BUT you're absolutely right in that they probably wouldn't have done a charity stream were it not for pressure from fans. and maybe this is ME being parasocial but i'd like to think that this isn't for damage control or performativism (i mean it is a LITTLE cuz any publicity is a little bit abt looking good) but rather like, putting their money where their mouth is basically! and showing to their core audience like hey we care about this thing too and we fully hear you.

i was thinking about this General concept wrt dnp because i think there have been other moments where dnp were called out about something or criticized for like their more offensive humor and they stopped doing that and educated themselves which is better than most creators who put up fakeass apology videos. ive seen a lot of ppl say they want dan to talk about and apologize for his racist and sexist humor (and honestly only asking dan but not bringing up that phil also had his share of racist jokes) but it's like. at this point what further could he say? he's not a 21 year old shit head anymore (and yeah good for you for being a socially aware 21 y/o in 2024 but that offensive humor literally was just the culture of that time period) and they both have SHOWN that they have grown and even talked about it in like the pinof react video where they talked about "yeah we bullied kristen stewart a lot cuz it was just popular to make fun of her and justin bieber and that really sucks that we did that" like they have changed and shown change! they do not need to make a grand apology statement cuz like if you wanna talk performativism then lets talk about the fakeness of basically every apology video on the internet????

sorry thats unrelated to what u were talking abt but it just made me start thinking BUT YEAH THANK YOU FOR YOUR HOT TAKES!!!!

[dwtdog]

i obviously hope george is reflecting on his actions but the reaction ccs are having seems "extreme"? just heard nolan edited cut him out of a video and he got edited out a Mr beast post, i honestly feel like i have nevee seen this crazy of a reaction from content creators themselves, even with worse accusations? Like am I crazy?

I cant help but feel terrible for george even tho he did something wrong, stuff like this will impact ur mental health so baldly and u never recover from this. idk what to say, yes he deserves being called out and def not praise but all these ppl wishing him to khs and his friends abandoning him and making him out to be a monster will not help the situation. feeling conflicted rn

i get feeling conflicted anon trust me, i feel like my opinion shifts constantly, but i do know this;

george made a mistake. he should be given the space to reflect on that and learn how to be better. from what we've seen, with him watching tina's stream, and with his twitter apology, and even from the stream he did even though it wasn't perfect, as far as we as the audience can see, he's actively trying to do just that

caiti was hurt by his actions. she was affected by his carelessness, and it fucked with her motivation to create content and her mental well-being. currently, she is being subjected to everyone on twitter going after george, with shockingly few people sending her support, with her friends going on tirades about him, and i can't imagine this is what she wanted.

the current reaction of calls for deplatforming, for deportation, for him to fucking kill himself, are so disproportionate to the actual situation at hand that they're having the opposite effect; people feel bad for george, understandably. and it shouldn't be like this. at all.