#now that reylo is canon i need a new trash ship

[porgthespacepenguin]

“this is not going to go the way you think”

(this was initially a comment on @trashywestallen’s blog that has now evolved into a full, 6500 word crazy meta. send help)

Or, the Lorca/Burnham meta that just wouldn’t quit and that nobody asked for.

Warning: those are just my ramblings/wild theories based on too much watching of the show, too little sleep, and some literary/cinematographic analysis.

Expect spoilers up to episode 10.

A lot of people on the Star Trek subreddits have been complaining that some of the plot twists so far on DSC have been too obvious (specifically, the Voq/Ash theory and the mirror!Lorca theory). Setting aside the fact that most of the general audience (who do not spend as much time as we do analyzing every word and frame) probably did not see those twists coming, at all…

I have a nagging feeling that there is another plot twist that has been under our nose this whole time.

I think Lorca is mirror!Lorca and was involved (romantically) with mirror!Michael. There, I said it. Worse: it was serious (perhaps she was even his wife, though obviously it would have had to be a  secret).

Either mirror!Michael was helping him secretly against the Terran Empire and was in on the coup, or more tragically, she wasn’t and was actually sent to stop him. She died, or was presumed dead: but the show was careful to mention it wasn’t Lorca who “killed” her, it was one of his followers (seems like an odd distinction to make, no?).

That’s a pretty radical theory, I admit. But bear with me for a while, will you?

Episode 10: the turning point

Three major plot point stand out immediately:

”Amazing isn’t it? Different universe, and somehow the same people had a way to find each other. Strongest argument I’ve ever seen for the existence of destiny.”

Their whole conversation in Lorca’s ready room is fascinating, but I’ll focus on the most relevant parts.

First off, while “finding each other” can apply to multiple people, it’s usually used for two. Lorca is almost certainly talking about the two of them here, not the crew in general.

And then, that bombshell... “destiny”. Defined as, “the hidden power believed to control future events; fate.”

That’s a pretty strong word to use. Essentially, Lorca is suggesting that fate has brought the two of them together, in this universe… and maybe even in another (mirror) universe.

Ever logical, Michael immediately rejects the very idea.

“I’m not sure I believe in the existence of destiny.”

This sort of talk is way too much for Michael to handle right now. She was raised on Vulcan: logic informs her thinking. But what Lorca is trying to tell her has nothing to do with logic. She just doesn’t hear him at all.

The rest of their conversation continues in a similar vein:

“Part of you had to know that wasn’t the end of your story (...) You were destined for something more.”

“Destiny did not get me out of prison, Captain. You did that.”

Two ways of looking at the same thing: one poetic and even romantic; the other factual and rational.  And perhaps they are both right, from their perspective: after all, if Lorca really is mirror!Lorca, who has lost his own Michael, only to find her again in another universe… that would be pretty incredible.

As he often does, Lorca immediately deflects:

“Let’s agree to disagree. For now.”

That “For now” is also important. Is there something that could realistically change her mind in the future, that he knows about and we don’t? Only Lorca knows.

Visually the scene is also very telling. They start off separated by his desk (which Lorca uses to create a barrier between them in many scenes, notably their first meeting) but then at his invitation, they move to the window, where the camera frames them with alternating two-shots (used primarily to establish links between characters) and close-ups (to create intimacy and focus on emotional reactions). There are also a few shots of them from behind, with their reflections in the window as well.

Mirror? Reflection? Did you want fries with your symbolism? (Note that shots of Lorca looking out a window with his reflection appearing also happens at least in episode 3, when Michael and Lorca first meet, and episode 6, after the whole Katrina debacle. They’ve not been subtle with this use of imagery).

- Not a scene but more a general feeling throughout the episode. How many times have we seen Michael touch Lorca previously? I’ll help you: exactly once, and honestly it barely counts (at the end of episode 3, when Michael takes a fortune cookie from his hand). As for Lorca, he never touches her.

Yet in this episode? Michael is all over him, starting from that moment on the bridge where she lays a hand on the small of his back to interrupt him (before that whole Scottish accent thing). That has literally never happened before.

Don’t even get me started on the whole hair and neck stroking she has going on later. In fact, as soon as she steps into her Terran persona she becomes a lot more tactile – only with Lorca, mind.

Now, I don’t know whether this means Michael is attracted to him or not – at least not consciously! – and in fact this might not even be the point.

Rather, those touches serve to establish and anchor a sense of physicality between the two of them, for us the audience. Essentially telling our unconscious minds:

“Look, here are are two very attractive people (that leather jacket, oh my lord) that are touching each other. The line has been crossed. Make of that what you will.”

I predict we will see an influx of new people wondering about the Lorca/Michael dynamic after watching episode 10, wondering if there was indeed something there or if they are imagining things.

- The ending scene! Either this is a very clever juxtaposition, or some super strange editing. Since TPTB have been doing excellent work on filmography so far, I’m hoping it’s the former.

I’m talking about the “love” scene between Tyler and Michael (and I use parenthesis here not because I dislike Ash/Michael -- I don’t -- but because at this point neither he nor Michael know who he is, or what he is, and … he just killed Culber in cold blood so… yay romance?) followed immediately by Lorca in the agonizer booth, screaming in pain.

Now that’s an odd editing choice. Or is it?

Cinematically, a cut like that is a common technique: it’s called cross-cutting, and is often used to show than two actions are happening at the same time.

According to Wikipedia:

“This creates a sharp dichotomy between the two actions, and encourages the viewer to compare the two shots. Often, this contrast is used for strong emotional effect (...).”

If we go back to the theory that mirror!Lorca and mirror!Michael were together, as more than just reluctant allies, and that he has feelings for both versions of her (yes, prime!Michael too after learning to know her)…

Well, Michael and Tyler consummating their relationship brings utter and complete agony to Lorca.

This is all symbolic, of course, but re watching the scene with all this in mind… It’s chilling. Tyler above Michael, the scene telegraphing that they are about to have sex…

Cut to Lorca screaming in the agonizer booth.

At the very least, they are implying some fairly dark things about Michael/Tyler going forward, but I also think it’s significant that Lorca is the one shown in pain here.

An aside: Michael/Tyler, from Ash to ashes

Poor Michael. Poor Tyler. I’ve been sure of the whole “Ash is Voq” thing almost since his introduction (remember the eye wound Michael inflicts on Voq in episode 2? Now check Tyler’s same eye in episode 5. Go on. I’ll wait.) but I thought there might be hope for them somehow, despite the fact that both had killed each other’s mentors (eaten, actually, in Voq’s case…)

Until episode 10.

I won’t dwell too much on the fact that, out of all the possible scenarios for Ash/Voq, we ended up with the worst one for their future: Tyler is Voq, physically and mentally -- not the other way around. The Tyler personality is an overlay, and we don’t know yet how much of that personality is real. But regardless: the body belongs to Voq.

I would have had a lot more hope if Tyler had been physically Tyler, with Voq’s personality implanted somewhere inside. This duality could have allowed a positive resolution for the plot line (driving out Voq’s consciousness, for example) and therefore their relationship.

Moving on.

Tyler/Voq murders Culber in cold blood (or so it seems to the audience), then proceeds to break into Michael’s room (and yes, this is meant to feel slightly creepy, even out of character for Tyler, who has so far respected her boundaries) and seduces her.

Everything is consensual but feels a bit… off. And for good reason.

They are surrounded by enemies, Michael is emotionally shaken from having had to kill a familiar face/friend (and the ironic juxtaposition of their two kills, one a cold-blooded murder, the other an act of self-defense, is just heartbreaking), and Lorca is being horribly tortured a few decks below.

Yikes.

Sex, and death, and pain. Those are not good things to put together when hoping for a happy ending. Symbolically there is no going back from this, I don’t think.

If they had consummated their relationship previously, in a more positive setting, I could still see their romance perhaps going in a positive direction (at least this would have been a good sign, though Culber’s fate might have made that moot as well).

As things stand, it feels like watching the death warrant of their relationship being signed and… ouch.

Poor Michael. Talk about a devastating first love.

Did someone say first love?

Interestingly there is a common trope pair, “First Love” / “Second Love”, that is often combined with “Wrong Guy First”. From TVTropes:

“This is the plot that results when a Love Triangle is used to illustrate the Aesop "Be Careful Who You Give Your Heart To".

Our heroine is a young woman with two suitors. Suitor #1 (...) seems to be everything a young woman would want. But he's not. Suitor #2 appears to be flawed. (...) If he's handsome, he's not as handsome. He could be many years older than our heroine. He often has the kind of personality that makes him hard to get to know.”

There are many literary examples of this trope, from Jane Austen, Tolstoy, or Dickens, all the way to Harry Potter or even the Hunger Games.

But no, wait. That can’t be right. It’s not like there is someone else who has been watching over Michael from the side lines since the beginning.

Right?

Well...

“I did choose you” : Going back to the beginning

After having this “red alert something is happening here” moment while watching episode 10, I went back and re-watched most of Lorca and Michael’s earlier interactions with this theory in mind.

(As a general note, I think Lorca generally avoids lying outright and prefers a more… Obi-wan approach. “What I told you was true, from a certain point of view.”)

Episode 3: First meeting and new beginnings

Their first meeting is almost theatrical in its setting. Michael enters a darkened room, and Lorca has his back to her, facing the window (where, again, his reflection can be seen). He is clad (armored, really) in darkness and mystery.

Lorca initially sounds almost like he is flirting: 

“I like to think it makes me mysterious. No?” 

“Don’t be shy.”

When I watched the episode for the first time, I thought it might be part of his personality (like Kirk) but no. He does not do this with other people. Only Michael.

In fact, I now think he is deflecting. The whole situation is somehow painful or difficult for him, and he uses humor to hide it. Which of course falls utterly flat, because Michael does not really get humor (at least not at this point).

He keeps his back to her for a long time, and even takes a breath before turning around, as though he has to fortify himself before seeing her.

Now that doesn’t make a lot of sense at face value, if Lorca is just a captain and Michael just a mutineer.

But it is a lot more understandable if Lorca is mirror!Lorca and the last time he saw Michael was before she (well, her mirror counterpart) died.

Because of him.

Lorca then comes to stand behind his desk, in a move he will be shown to use often in the future. Make no mistake, this is a highly defensive maneuver.

They talk about Michael’s shuttle being diverted, and no surprise, Michael’s logic bluntly dispels Lorca’s attempts at plausible deniability. (Something, by the way, that happens many times in the series: she rarely lets him get away with misdirection. Though amusingly she has also, so far, never caught up with what he is actually trying to hide.)

To which Lorca says:

“Maybe the universe hates waste.”

Considering their discussion in episode 10, similarly in Lorca’s ready room, this line takes on a lot more meaning. He is referring to destiny here, although obliquely.

Visually, two things happen in succession: Lorca has a little half smile, and then tilts his head and holds her gaze for a long moment. Now what does body language have to say about that?

“In courtship, the head tilt shows a playful and engaged attitude. It shows interest but can also be a tease (especially when combined with a half smile and sideways glance).”

Lorca is definitely flirting with her this time. In fact, his next move supports this idea. He moves around the desk and comes to stand in front of her. He does not completely leave the security of the desk, mind, instead choosing to lean against it (a sign of insecurity) while his shoulders are set back in a classic power pose.

Michael is startled and takes a few steps back, swallowing. I don’t think she is scared of him, not on a conscious level. But on an unconscious level, we have a (presumably) virginal or inexperienced young woman suddenly approached by an older, attractive man who has been flirting with her (though I doubt she consciously noticed). She is shaken.

He either doesn’t notice, or (more likely) pretends not to notice and basically offers her a job. She refuses (not just the job, but the whole Call to Adventure -- more on that later).

He tells her she doesn’t have a choice.

This is a crucial moment. Lorca talks to her harshly, tells her there are no free rides on his ship (ironic, since he is the one that dragged her here!) and that she will be put to work. Almost at once, he moves back behind the safety of his desk, walls firmly back up. He will be the “bad guy” because she needs him to be, but he is not enjoying it.

Make no mistake, Michael needs it. At this point in her story, she has lost hope. She is a ghost of her former self. She was right about the Klingons, but with the guilt of Georgiou’s death, she had taken on the guilt for the whole war as well. She is depressed, withdrawn. She has given up.

What Lorca does is put her back on her feet. He gives her a job, a purpose (however temporary), and even a mystery to chew on (of course he knew she was going to try to break in, and he wanted her to -- that’s why he assigned her to Engineering).

He reminds her of who she was (“You were once a Starfleet officer.”).

Of course, at that moment, she doesn’t see his actions as a gift, but rather a burden, an obligation. If she had the energy for it, she would resent him.

It will take her three episodes to process and express her gratitude for the second chance he has given her (more on that later).

Lorca does all this obliquely, as he does many (most) things. In fact, I believe he does not want Michael to be grateful to him (perhaps out of guilt). Mind you, he is also testing her: Lorca is a pragmatist. And if he is mirror!Lorca, he doesn’t know this version of Michael yet, and what she is capable of.

When Michael leaves with Landry, there is another closeup on Lorca’s face, and he has this very odd expression. Like this has affected him, was hard on him, somehow.

This makes no sense at all if Lorca is prime!Lorca and is simply meeting a mutineer he wants to recruit. But even if our Lorca is indeed mirror!Lorca, why would meeting Michael’s prime counterpart affect him so? Unless there is more to it than meets the eye.

At the end of the episode, we go back to Lorca’s ready room, in a lovely symbolic mirroring/book-ending of their first meeting.

Lorca is looking every inch the Captain, standing firmly behind his desk, arms wide, shoulders straight. Again a classic power pose. He offers her a position aboard Discovery. She initially refuses him again but this time, she doesn’t back down.

I can’t emphasize how different Michael’s behavior is in both encounters.

When they first meet, she is defeated, submissive, withdrawn. When she refuses Lorca’s first offer, it is weakly, and he steamrolls her objections without difficulty. When he steps closer to her, she steps back. She looks down at the floor.

In this scene, however, Michael has regained her confidence. She looks Lorca straight in the eye when she refuses him, and he is on the defensive (or seems to be). She flings his question (“Why would you refuse?”) back at him (“Why do you want me to stay?”) and even stalks toward him.

Of course, Lorca being Lorca, Michael doesn’t quite get to keep the upper hand for too long. She gets derailed into a rant about Lorca developing and testing biological weapons, which then veers into a slightly pompous speech about being a Starfleet officer to the death.

Meanwhile, Lorca is smiling, a fond smile (that almost seems out of place considering he is supposed to have met her a couple of days before). This is what he has been planning all along. His experiment was successful.

His next sentence is very telling:

“I know exactly who you are, Michael Burnham. I know exactly who you are.”

Well, well.

Essentially, he is implying here that either he knows her because… he actually knows her (and that should not be possible); or he knows her because they are the same. They are kindred spirits.

Either way, it’s a fairly odd thing to say to someone you’ve known for a few days!

Still smiling fondly, he stops her from making more of a fool of herself and proceeds to dazzle her with his shiny new technology. He is really pulling all the stops here to impress her, even taking her on a virtual tour of the galaxy.

And then he outright admits it:

“I did choose you (…) but not for the reasons you think.”

This sentence works on so many levels, it’s pretty incredible. Note that she asked him why he wanted her to stay; and he answers that he chose her. Those are not even remotely comparable in terms of emotional involvement.

Then the camera switches to choker shots (tight close-up shots that cut off above the eyes and under the mouth/chin) which are traditionally used to create … romantic tension. Or at the very least emotional tension.

Lorca holds out his hand, with a fortune cookie in it (fortune cookie which she refused in their initial meeting, mirroring!).

(No time to discuss in too many details, but in fortune cookie, there is “fortune”... another reference to fate/destiny.)

She takes the fortune cookie from his hand. This time, she accepts his offer, and symbolically, the Call to Adventure.

An aside: Michael’s hero journey

I have mentioned the Call to Adventure a couple of times now, and I realize it might be helpful to take a brief detour into the Hero’s Journey before we continue.

The Hero’s Journey, or monomyth, is a template of narrative analysis that is widely used in storytelling. It is not absolute, or perfect (it has received its fair share of criticism) but so many stories follow these patterns that they have become embedded in our collective unconscious. As such, they can be helpful in understanding the symbolic underpinnings of a story.

The Hero’s Journey (according to Campbell, who first wrote about it in 1949) is broadly composed of 3 acts (Departure, Initiation, Return), further divided in 17 stages.

For the purpose of this meta (and considering DSC is only in its first season!), I will focus mostly on the first stage, Departure.

(Note that not all stages need to be used in a story, nor do they need to happen in a linear fashion. They may also happen multiple times, in multiple forms.)

The call to adventure

The refusal of the call

Supernatural aid/meeting the mentor

Crossing the first threshold

The belly of the whale

Acceptance of the call

When we meet Michael again in episode 3 (which narratively is the beginning of the story, with episodes 1 and 2 serving as a prologue), she is a broken woman. So heavily laden with guilt, in fact, that she has essentially given up and turned her back on everything she is and believes in.

When Lorca offers her a (temporary) job on Discovery, she turns him down. On paper, this looks like a textbook refusal of the call, and it is. But looking deeper, even before she comes aboard Discovery, Michael has already refused it, and in fact, has been refusing it for a while.

"Refusal of the summons converts the adventure into its negative. Walled in boredom, hard work, or 'culture,' the subject loses the power of significant affirmative action and becomes a victim to be saved. [Her] flowering world becomes a wasteland of dry stones and [her] life feels meaningless. (...) All [she] can do is (...) await the gradual approach of [her] disintegration." (Campbell)

From the moment Captain Georgiou dies, Michael shuts down. She refuses all attempts to move forward, essentially locking herself away and throwing away the key. She has given up on herself. This is Michael’s true refusal of the call.

“The mentor gives the hero the supplies, knowledge, and confidence required to overcome his or her fear and face the adventure.” (Christopher Vogler)

Lorca then plucks her from her prison, as if by magic, and sets her to work on his ship. This is the supernatural aid/meeting the mentor stage.

"With the personifications of [her] destiny to guide and aid [her], the hero goes forward in [her] adventure until [she] comes to the 'threshold guardian' at the entrance to the zone of magnified power.” (Campbell)

Lorca then sends Michael to the Glenn, along with Stamets, Tilly and Landry. This plot point represents both the Crossing of the First Threshold and the Belly of the Whale stages, combined.

At Lorca’s orders, and despite herself, Michael has to leave the safety of Discovery for the danger of the Glenn. This is her first mission since her mutiny, and since she turned down the call. She is forced to cross the threshold of the boundaries, the walls she has drawn around herself.

“It is a turning point in the Hero’s Journey where the hero is swallowed by a larger monster or representative of evil and comes out with a new sense of self. The hero is consumed but emerges alive. (...) and [comes] to terms with death.” (Gordon Napier)

“That is why the approaches and entrances to temples are flanked and defended by colossal gargoyles: dragons, lions, devil-slayers with drawn swords, resentful dwarfs, winged bulls. The devotee at the moment of entry into a temple undergoes a metamorphosis.” (Campbell)

On the Glenn, everything is dark and scary. There are dead bodies, horribly disfigured. There is a monster roaming. Michael barely escapes with her life, after crawling through tunnels with the tardigrade in pursuit, before jumping into the shuttle at the last possible moment (quite heroically I might add). This stage is the metaphorical Belly of the Whale.

Incidentally, an important theme throughout the episode, and especially the tardigrade pursuit, is “Alice in Wonderland”: a vivid tale where physical metamorphosis, the search for identity and the hero’s journey all play a prominent role.

After Michael faces her trials successfully, she starts to remembers who she is: a Starfleet officer. She has begun to process her grief and can now start her hero’s journey anew (a journey of healing and growth).

Later, when Lorca offers her a permanent position on Discovery, Michael accepts both his second offer and the symbolic call to adventure (after a fair bit of convincing).

And she does it on her own terms, too: if Lorca had been working on a biological weapon, she would have refused him, but not for the same reasons she had turned him down initially. Not out of fear and self-doubt, but with a renewed respect for herself and her beliefs.

She has started to remember that she is a hero.

There are many other aspects of the Hero’s journey when it comes to Michael in Star Trek Discovery, but this goes beyond the scope of this already huge meta.

Episode 5: Keeping secrets

Episode 5 doesn’t technically have any direct interactions between Michael and Lorca. There is, however, a fairly significant scene between him and Katrina Cornwell, on the matter of our favorite mutineer.

Halfway through their fight, the admiral asks Lorca an enormously important question:

“(...) Why give everyone another reason to judge you?”

Of course, Lorca immediately deflects with another question of his own, putting Katrina on the defensive. And he never actually answers the question, which means that whatever it is, it’s important.

Episode 6: Shadows and mirrors

After Michael senses Sarek’s pain and collapses, Lorca is right there at her bedside when she awakens. Does he usually do this for his crew? Somehow I doubt it.

Then Michael asks him to mount a rescue for Sarek and… Lorca does it. No questions asked.

He defies a direct order from Starfleet, which later on brings down Cornwell’s inquisition on him (by the way, she’s a psychiatrist who thinks nothing of sleeping with someone she considers psychologically unstable? Hmm.). He ends up in real danger of losing his ship. All this because Michael said please.

Then there is of course the infamous conversation between Lorca and Tyler in the shuttle:

“Bring her back in one piece.”

“Not a scratch.”

“I’m talking about her. Or don’t come back at all.”

First off, wow. Lorca is definitely overreacting here. This is not normal Captain behavior. In fact, Tyler’s reaction (thinking Lorca meant the shuttle) is much more logical than what Lorca actually means (“Anything happens to Michael, you’re a dead man”).

Whether he means it 100% is up for debate, but the message is crystal clear: this is a threat.

Bring her back to me or else.

Note that at no point in this conversation does Lorca feel the need to refer to Michael by name, simply using “her” as though it was obvious who and what he means. And to him, it is. But to poor Tyler, or even to the audience, this serves to point out the stark disconnect between normal concern over a mission vs. abnormal worry over a particular individual.

Before leaving, Lorca claps Tyler on the arm and this feels like a dominant gesture, a way to establish a hierarchy that has nothing to do with Starfleet’s. Especially after their friendly chat/threat.

Upon first watching the episode, this scene seriously made me raise an eyebrow because he sounds way too protective/possessive for a captain just caring about a crew member (and not Tilly or Tyler, who are also going on the mission, remember?).

At the end of the episode, Michael thanks Lorca, pointing out that he didn’t have to save Sarek. Lorca answers, truthfully:

“I didn’t do for him.”

He then adds that he needs his team at peak form but those are just empty words. At no point in the series does he ever choose an individual crew member’s needs over the ship/the mission. In fact, being the pragmatist that he is, he does not hesitate to put them in danger if the mission requires it (see Stamets -- though I honestly don’t believe Lorca knew or could have foreseen what would happen to him when they made that last jump).

Except when it comes to Michael.

Finally, we are offered a  shining example of the rule of threes (commonly found in fairy tales, but not only). From TVTropes:

“The Rule of Three is a pattern used in stories and jokes, where part of the story is told three times, with minor variations. The first two instances build tension, and the third releases it by incorporating a twist.”

Lorca makes her a third and final job offer: a place not only on Discovery, but on the bridge, as science officer. By his side.

In a reversal of the previous offers, Michael accepts at once, without an ounce of hesitation. She does not need any convincing.

She also says something quite meaningful, in light of her initial reactions to his first two offers:

“I am grateful… to serve under a captain like you.”

Characteristically, Lorca seems to refuse her gratitude. He looks startled, says nothing, just offers a small smile then walks away.

At this point in their story, we don’t know if this is out of guilt (atonement), his personality or even a narrative continuation of the “Wrong Guy First” trope, where the sidelined suitor is still trying to ensure the heroine’s happiness. Perhaps a mix of all three.

Episode 9: On the bridge we fight

Pahvo is in danger. Discovery, by association, is in danger. The Federation is in even more danger than usual because of the Klingon’s stealth technology.

Lorca decides to send a team to place beacons on the Klingon ship. He picks Tyler, and Tyler picks Michael, as she is the most qualified for the job.

And Lorca just goes, “No way, Michael’s not going, it’s too dangerous”. Too dangerous for her, but not for the other crew members sent on the boarding party, mind you. Including Tyler who is standing right here.

As is quickly becoming her habit, Michael just insists and proceeds to bludgeon Lorca with her logic while the rest of the crew (and the audience) tries to understand what is going on.

Lorca looks supremely uncomfortable. His whole posture is one of avoidance. He sits down onto his chair and seems to just shrink on himself, turning away from Michael in clear dismissal. He avoids her gaze, snaps at her and even resorts to orders (something he hasn’t done since their first meeting).

“Sir, you offered me a place on this ship.”

“And now I’m ordering you to stay!”

Meanwhile, everyone else on the bridge is just watching them in disbelief, and with no small amount of discomfort. They do not understand what they are witnessing -- a battle of wills.

Until finally Michael, reaching the logical conclusion of Lorca’s odd behavior, stumbles onto the truth:

“There is no logic to your thinking. Unless this is about me.”

At that Lorca finally has to look at her, but he doesn’t say anything because there is nothing to say. She is right on both counts: he is not being logical at all, and this is about her.

Amusingly, Michael still manages to miss the point completely, misreading Lorca’s agitation and protectiveness by viewing herself as a resource (to be hoarded) rather than a person (to be protected).

I honestly felt bad for Lorca in this scene. If Michael were even a tiny better at understanding feelings, in herself or in others, she would probably realize that his behavior is not normal. But she is oblivious, for which Lorca is probably very thankful.

After that, well, she has basically put him on the spot, and in front of the whole bridge to boot. He glances at Saru, then back at Michael. He has lost and can only concede. He has no more arguments beyond, “I am afraid to lose you” and that is not something he can say.

(Mind you, if this scene had been between the two of them in private, without the whole bridge watching, he would never have allowed her to go. Logic be damned.)

So Lorca finally relents, but you can tell it’s against his will. Like pulling teeth.

He even orders her to come back safely (but not Tyler, who is also going on that super duper dangerous mission and is standing right here!) Then we have another shot of his face, looking pretty damn unhappy. Wretched, even.

Possessing the emotional intelligence of a brick (and I say that as someone who loves the character), Michael thanks him and looks satisfied. For her the matter is resolved.

She totally doesn’t realize that:

She, a convicted mutineer, has just pitted her will against her captain’s and won.

She should be in the brig or confined to quarters right now, not going on the mission.

Lorca only gave in because whatever secret he is trying to protect is more important to him than his pride.

One wonders what Saru and the bridge crew made of that little scene.

Lastly, note the contrast between their confrontation in this episode, and episode 6 where Michael risks her life to go save Sarek.  

Of course, going on a rescue mission inside a nebula is probably less dangerous than infiltrating the Klingon Ship of the Dead, but it still carries a vast amount of risk (as evidenced by Stamets’ flippant “Are you really that crazy?”).

If Lorca only saw Michael as a tool he cannot afford to lose, for whatever purpose, he would never have allowed her to risk her own life going after Sarek.

He even had a perfect excuse: Starfleet explicitly forbade it. There was no reason for him to take such a tactical risk (which nearly cost him the Discovery and later brought down the wrath of Starfleet over his head), unless he knew this was important to Michael. And therefore, important to him as well.

So. What is Lorca’s deal?

Only Lorca knows, really. But we can try to explain his behavior in three basic ways:

Our Lorca is prime!Lorca and just cares about Michael because he likes her. That option definitely doesn’t explain everything, and seems to be disproved by episodes 9/10 (he did override the ship to jump somewhere, and he definitely didn’t want Saru to look into the logs. Mirror!Lorca seems also conveniently absent from the MU).

At this point, it seems relatively safe to assume our Lorca is mirror!Lorca. Which leaves two options:

Lorca wants to use prime!Michael for something, perhaps related to overthrowing the Emperor. He sees her as a tool, perhaps a valuable crew member. Now that theory explains many things, but not all, especially how Lorca just seems to care so damn much (and in that scenario, allowing Michael to risk her life to save Sarek just makes no sense, as stated above).

We go back to our starting theory. Lorca cared about mirror!Michael, in whatever capacity. She died (because of him, even if indirectly) and he feels grief/remorse because of it. He might also have started to care for prime!Michael in her own right. And he doesn’t want to lose her again. He just can’t bear it.

(Note that in this last theory, Lorca might ALSO need Michael for something related to overthrowing the Emperor. Lorca is a pragmatist, and if they were both working together originally, he might be hoping she will help him again.)

What does this mean for the future?

Short answer: it’s too early to tell.

Long answer?

Right now, if I am right and there is something between Lorca and Michael, I am inclined to think it’s one-sided. She respects him and might be attracted to him, unconsciously, but her attention is on Tyler. Lorca is not even trying to position himself as a contender, either.

Unfortunately, Tyler/Michael is likely going to go down in flames, and it’s going to hurt. All aboard the pain train, direction tragedy.

Michael is going to regress emotionally for a while. Losing a first love is hard, losing it to betrayal is awful. She is going to have to grow as a person to get past this.

I think at some point in their stay in the MU, someone (an enemy perhaps) will reveal that mirror!Michael was Lorca’s wife, or at least someone important to him. And that bombshell is going to alter Michael’s perception of Lorca (honestly she would need a bomb dropped on her head for her to catch a hint at this point).

Michael is most definitely not going to know what to do with that information. Expect a heroic BSOD, followed by her trying to understand things logically (and Lorca is not gonna be down with that, at all).

Lorca will not take it well either. He is an intensely private man, and I don’t think he had ever intended to tell Michael anything. He is likely going to close himself off as well (Tyler’s betrayal probably won’t help).

I don’t think Lorca will die in S1. Narratively, he is one of main characters (with Michael and Voq), and incidentally a fan favourite. We’ve already lost Culber (hopefully temporarily), and Ash is likely going to turn back into Voq. Stamets is still out of commission. Frankly, if Lorca dies there are not that many characters left!

Not to mention that neither Saru nor Michael are anywhere near ready to be captain yet.

Whoever she is in the mirror universe, Admiral Cornwell is not a friend to Lorca (unlike in the prime universe where they were likely friends with benefits).

We will stay a few more episodes in the Mirror Universe, though probably not until the end of the season.

[stargazerdaisy]

SHIP HISTORY MEME

Embrace your past and get to know your friends’ fandom origins!

Rules: Post gifs of your fandoms / ships starting with your most current hyperfixation and work backwards. (Bonus points if you share any stories about how or when you got into that ship! But not necessary!!) Then tag anyone whose fandom history you’d like to learn about!

I was tagged by @hithelleth - Thank you!  

The Rookie - Lucy Chen x Tim Bradford

Since we’re going form most recent to oldest, I must start with an Honorable mention to Katie trying to brainwash me with Chenford.  This may end up being a new ship, if I watch the damn show, because right now I’m rather obsessed with these pretty idiots.

Star Wars - Rey x Kylo Ren/Ben Solo

Technically this came before some of these others (i.e. when I watched The Last Jedi), but Reylo is one of my current hyperfixations.  This is a complicated, problematic at times ship, but oh how I love them, for their potential more than anything.  I’m also not heartbroken by the end of TROS, but I get an not-insignificant amount of joy at them being made canon (and I’m just laughing at the novelization trying to walk that back. Nice try, neeeever gonna happen.).

The Code - Maya Dobbins x John ‘Abe’ Abraham

There are no gifs for them as a couple, because they were never even hinted at being a ship in the show, but in a demonstration of my absolute susceptibility, @vesperass-anuna talked me into shipping them in about 4 minutes and 36 seconds and I have a whole AU sketched out with her and several started and not quite finished fics.  

Supergirl - Kara Danvers x Mon-El

I didn’t want to ship it, I didn’t like him at first, but he grew and changed, and seeing his devotion to Kara won me over.  And I won’t lie, knowing they fell in love in real life and got married and are now having a baby makes it even sweeter to me.  The key here was growth for both of them, and I think Season 3 really showed that.  I will always love Karamel, even though they’ve both moved on.

From Dusk Til Dawn - Seth Gecko x Kate Fuller

Yeah, I shipped them before I ever watched the stupid show.  That one is squarely on Evie.  She was megashipping them and got me to read fic (total, complete AUs) and I loved it all so much, that I had to watch the show.  It’s really not my type of show, and it was totally different than what I was expecting (how did I not know about the snake vampires?!?!?), but I ended up enjoying it sooooo much and shipping SethKate even harder.

and dammit, even though I’ve basically given up hope for a Season 4, they still have not ever officially said it was cancelled

Agents of SHIELD - Skye/Daisy Johnson x Grant Ward

SKYEWARD IS MY HEART AND SOUL AND THE REASON I AM HERE AND ACTIVE ON TUMBLR AND MADE SOME OF MY BEST FRIENDS.  These two.  THESE TWO TOTAL IDIOTS, HOW I LOVE THEM.  They are opposites in a lot of ways, but also have so much in common, and their chemistry is just magnificent.  If you look at a lot of my other ships, you’ll see a lot of common dynamics with this one.  I will never ever ever get over them, I will be in this trash can for the rest of my life, and I will never see anyone else as their soulmates*.  These two belong together and you can (and should) project that on my tombstone.

*That doesn’t mean I hate anyone else either of them have been paired with.  I truly don’t.  There’s a lot about the Lincoln x Daisy relationship that I quite appreciated, and I was once again sucked into a ship by Ves, so I ship the OT3 of Skye x Ward x Lincoln, but I will always ship Skyeward above anything else.

Doctor Who - The Doctor x Rose Tyler

Behold, the ship that brought me to fandom.  I really never sought out additional material beyond a tv show/movie before.  But after Season 2 ended so heartbreakingly (and I knew exactly how it ended before I watched), I needed more.  I couldn’t just let them go.  I was 29 years old and started searching for fanfic.  And started reading it voraciously.  That is what actually brought me to tumblr in the first place.  I had exhausted Pinterest, but could see that tumblr was the source of a lot of what I loved, so I started an account and began exploring.  I didn’t really understand how it worked, or even used it super often, but it taught me the framework of fandom, so when later ships crashed and burned hit me, I knew where to go and what to look for.  

(two gifs, because Nine and Ten)

Alias - Sydney Bristow x Michael Vaughn

THE SHIP I SHIPPED BEFORE THE TERM SHIP WAS COMMONLY USED.  I started watching this show back in high school, with my dad; missed a season when I didn’t have cable; got back into it when my boyfriend (now husband) bought me the DVDs for my birthday; and sucked in most of his roommates as we watched it together.  It was pivotal for me and I will forever be so thrilled these two made it.

And Last but oh so not least,

Anne of Green Gables - Anne Shirley x Gilbert Blythe

I was raised on watching the Anne of Green Gables and Anne of Avonlea miniseries’.  As in, I still have the VHS tapes that I watched as a gradeschooler AND the DVDs and can recite almost the entire scripts.  I. LOVE. THEM.  I’ve read the whole series of books multiple times and just keep praying that my kids will read and love them someday. 

And let me just tell you, revisiting them as an adult, steeped in fandom and shipping dynamics, I realized just how much I have a Type™ and how these two really were the foundation for all of that.  

Gosh, this was so fun!  Thank you again, Hith!

I tag: @firstdegreefangirl, @evieoh, @orlissa, @ttinycourageous, @aurorafiberarts, @agenthaywood, @estrangedtimelord, @in-the-moving-castle, @diamondsmash​

[imperial-martian]

hey new mutual, the character i'm giving you is armitage hux!

How I feel about this character:

Armitage is a very complex character to unfold. He has so much information about him that is never shown in the movies. His past is a major part of what’s made him the man he is today. His countless years of abuse - whether physical, verbal, emotional, or any other form that he went through - definitely effected how he acted later on.

He was forced into an army without a choice and saw no other option but to rise in the ranks and fight for his life only for somebody else to jump in and take a similar position, and then pass him because of a game of kill or be killed. He’d played that game all his life and lost due to a force user, but he would have been damned if he didn’t take one final blow.

So, personally, I think Armitage is a very complex and hard character to understand completely. Even now I realize that how I wrote him for imagines would be completely different then how I would right him for chapter fics (at least the ones I after Broken & Bruised). He’s has a very simple task that he wants to achieve. He wants power and he wants control, because that’s all he was ever brought up to know.

He wants power to be feared, and to be feared gives him some form of security. If he was feared and in control he wouldn’t have to worry nearly as much about somebody throwing him around or treating him like trash without severe punishment being taken against them.

I feel as though Armitage is still a character lurking for attention and affection - albeit, different forms than what children or romantic companions give him - to make up for everything he went through as a child. He doesn’t want to be known as the man who is a weak willed child. So, no, I don’t think him becoming the spy was far off at all, because seeing Kylo Ren lose would put him in that position of power.

Armitage could most certainly over power Pryde, but he wouldn’t be able to do that with Ren constantly over his shoulder and at his neck. I don’t think Armitage was even close - honestly, no where near close! - to being shown his real potential.

I could go on for longer, but I have class in a bit.

All the people I ship romantically with this character:

No one. Can no one be an answer? Well, that’s my answer.

Now, before I go on to say why, let me clarify one thing. I do not go looking at the fanons view of ships. I don’t look at the headcanons people give them, or the reasons they ship it, or what redemptions they give the characters. I absolutely stay away from ANY fandoms ships!

Okay, with that out of the way, let me tell you why I don’t like a lot of ships with Armitage. I don’t know how many there are, and I don’t want to go looking for them all, but I’ll mention the few I know.

(This isn’t to offend anyone, it’s just my opinion!)

Kylux- I have a few major problems with this ship, that no matter how much people try to redeem it, or see past certain things, will never make me feel indifferent. The way Ren treats Hux is a major issue for me. I mean, Kylo nearly killed Hux- more than once if I remember correctly.

The animosity that Armitage holds for Ren is far too grand for any form of romantic relationship to hold. Even a friendship is hard for me to see happening between the two. It would take a damn long time for Hux to even think about opening up to Kylo like a friend. I can’t see any other relationship, except work - which we all know how that went - working.

To be honest, I think Kylo is extremely physical with Hux, and although I think Armitage could dominate Kylo if he had the power/force, because Hux is at a disadvantage I can only ever see Kylo as an abuser towards Hux.

Hux x Poe, Rose, Finn, Rey- I can’t see Hux with any of these characters, at all. In no way can I see the man that absolutely obliterated the New Republic. Armitage hates everything that the Republic stands for, he was brought up to hate them.

The only reason he helped the Resistance was for the power. He knew he couldn’t kill Hux on his own so he needed people to do it for them. He only gave enough information that he knew would help take down Kylo, but not enough to take down The First Order.

Also, why would any of the Resistance members want to be romantically involved with somebody who’s killed billions of their own. They don’t see any redemption in him- and the only reason I could see him be “redeemed” for dating a Resistance member is through fabulous writing. I haven’t seen any reason why any of the Resistance members in the movies to really and trully trust Hux.

(ps. this doesn’t mean that fanfic writers can’t write for Hux joining the Resistance or that Hux can’t date a Resistance reader - I mean like that’s one of my favorite troupes - but I can’t see Hux dating the Resistance members in the movies. They all stand too tall and proudly to let them be corrupted into dating Hux. (This is also one of reasons why I don’t ship Reylo either.))

Hux x Phasma- I honestly can’t see them romantically involved with one another. You’ll see more as you why on the next bullet.

My non-romantic OTP for this character:

Now this is easy. I mean, the two characters were really close. Phasma even killed Brendol Hux for Armitage. Hux kept her safe too. He did his best to hide the tracts of what happened, and when Hux killed Brooks, he looked towards Phasma to be sure nobody would see. He even used her blaster.

I can’t see them together romantically, I think, for the both of them, they aren’t ready for each other emotionally, and even if they were I still wouldn’t be able to see them as any more then a best friend or brother-sister relationship.

My unpopular opinion about this character:

Here me out, Hux would be such a badass force user. I think that if Hux could use and control the force he would be someone to be reckoned with. Not only is Hux skilled with a blaster - which, unfortunately, wasn’t shown in the movies - but him with a lightsaber! He’d be pretty hard to take down.

Even if people were able to get through his guards I think he could take down another force user. However, this isn’t canon compliment, so for an opinion that is, I think Hux would make a better Supreme Leader than Kylo and Snoke. The man has one of - if not the highest - IQ in the Star Wars universe! Now imagine him with the highest power possible in the First Order.

One thing I wish would happen/had happened with this character:

Well, I wish a lot of things would/had happened with him, a lot regarding his “death” (and I put that in quotations because I, much like a lot of others, think that he’s still alive). However, I don’t want to go there right now, so I’ll list list a major thing I wish would have happened.

I wished Hux could have been what they made him up to be in TLJ in TROS. I think Disney absolutely ruined what his character stood for and who he was. I think if his past was shown or hinted in the movies a lot more people would start to see how complex he is. Now many people read the comics. I never did before I got into Hux’s character. So, to put it simply, I wish that they would have showed some more character in him (and, like @swellwriting, I hope they show how he is still alive in some tv series).

[greyspilot]

Ultimate Ship Challenge

Rules: you can’t use the same ship twice (single characters can be used multiple times as long as the ship is different), rarepair, crossover and non-canon ships are allowed.

1. a ship I miss: Zude / Zero and Jude, Hit the Floor

2. a healthy ship: Finnpoe / Finn and Poe, Star Wars

3. a toxic ship: Allen and Lucien, Kill Your Darlings

4. a problematic ship: Paire / Peter and Claire, Heroes

5. an unproblematic ship: Saileen / Sam and Eileen, Supernatural

6. a ship that deserved better: Natessa / Nate and Vanessa, Gossip Girl

7. a ship i didn’t love at first but now I do: St. Berry / Rachel and Jesse, Glee

8. a ship I loved at first but now don’t: Samcedes / Sam and Mercedes, Glee

9. a relationship I could envision myself having: Geraskier / Geralt and Jaskier, The Witcher (my boyfriend is v gruff but protective, I am small and clingy and get into trouble)

10. a ship everyone hates but I love: Biley (?) / Buffy and Riley, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

11. a ship everyone loves but I hate: Reylo / Rey and Kylo Ren, Star Wars (no offence intended to reylo stans, to each their own, i just still don’t like it)

12. a ship that i don’t really talk about but i love: Pythagoras and Icarus, Atlantis

13. a ship with a sad ending: Tillow / Tara and Willow, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

14. a ship with a happy ending: Liz Taylor and Tristan Duffy, American Horror Story: Hotel

15. a dorky ship: Jess and Rory, Gilmore Girls

16. a badass ship: Grace and Dani, Terminator: Dark Fate

17. a ship i have a love/hate relationship with: Violate (lmao sorry idk if I made that up) / Violet and Tate, American Horror Story: Murder House

18. a ship that isn’t canon yet: Kia and Jordan, All American (he!!! stayed up!!! all night!!! learning!!! her!!! cotillion!!! dance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

19. a new ship: Coco and Hope, Mayans M.C.

20. a ship I used to stan: Merthur / Merlin and Arthur, Merlin

21. an aesthetic ship: Bughead / Betty and Jughead, Riverdale

22. an overrated ship: Spuffy / Spike and Buffy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

23. an underrated ship: Anya and Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer

24. a ship that got the endgame they didn’t deserve: Leyton / Lucas and Peyton, One Tree Hill

25. a ship that didn’t get the endgame they deserved: Brucas / Brooke and Lucas, One Tree Hill

26. a ship that’s broken up at the moment but I still hope they’ll reconcile: Coop and Patience, All American (I originally had these guys as my answer for 27 because I love Coop and I love Patience but LOOK. Patience. Deserves. Better. Coop better start putting her first i stg. AND THEN I CAUGHT UP. And wow. wow. wow. When coop said “I’m like this because I love you” and patience said “i know but I don’t wanna be loved like this” that shit hurted)

27. a ship that’s together at the moment, but I hope they’ll break up: Liv and Asher, All American (I shipped these guys so hard before they got together and then like, Asher just became so bad for her like she deserves better and I want them to be together but I think they need to break up so Asher can get his shit together)

28. a ship that was better off as friends: Wes and Laurel, How to Get Away With Murder

29. a ship I love because of a friend: Hessa / Hardin and Tessa, After

30. a ship I secretly ship: Stefan and Rebekah, The Vampire Diaries

31. a ship I never thought I’d ship: Liam and Lauren, Faking It

32. a ship I thought I’d ship but didn’t: Karmy / Karma and Amy, Faking It

33. a ship I shipped from the moment I saw them: Arthur and Eames, Inception

34. a ship I’ll never ship: Klaroline / Klaus and Caroline, The Vampire Diaries

35. a ship with great development: Gallavich / Ian and Mickey, Shameless (US)

36. a ship with horrible development: Choni / Cheryl and Toni, Riverdale (I just wish they gave my girl Toni more to do)

37. an “old married couple” ship: Zukka / Zuko and Sokka, Avatar: The Last Airbender

38. a “high school romance” ship: Miley and Leslie (Jake Ryan) / Hannah Montanna

39. a “constantly on and off” ship: Varchie / Veronica and Archie, Riverdale

40. all time fave ship: Wolfstar / Remus and Sirius, Harry Potter - Stucky / Steve and Bucky, Marvel - Harringrove / Steve and Billy, Stranger things - bc I can’t choose just one - and just bc I’m trash: Osciana / Oscar and Mariana (my OC), my On My Block fanfic

Tagging: @gideongrace @thinger-strang @harringrovesfawcettspray

[emperorren]

I know a lot of new shippers came along after tlj and don't know the true craziness of antis, but 2018 was still a frickin mess! For example, November(i think) last year, antis invaded the reylo tag with total bullshit. it's better now that tumblr have sorted out the tagging system, so posts stay were they're meant to, but last year wasn't all sunshine and roses. So shippers who say they're post tlj still should have been around for that shit show.

that’s just a fraction of what the overall discourse was in 2016 though. I mean, main tags can be avoided (I never go there, for example, because there’s too much trash to begin with, antis or not). But in 2016 my entire dashboard was like this. Half my mutuals were like this, general sw blogs couldn’t be trusted, Leia fans couldn’t be trusted, Anakin stans couldn’t be trusted, and bloggers I previously loved suddenly started paying lip service to anti rhetoric calling us sickos and abuse apologists and internalized racists and so on. And I had it relatively easy, compared to other shippers who got death threats and triggering content in their inbox.

The "let us all hold hands and sing the kumbaya" attitude from TLJ Reylos is extra annoying when you realize that many of them were casually liking and reblogging antis' vitriolic posts between TFA and TLJ. I have seen so many of them humorously admitting to it. "Haha I used to think Reylos were crazy but after TLJ I was like hot damn their chemistry is great!"

That’s true. I’m glad that at least some antis came around and fell in love with the reylo dynamic, and I believe in redemption arcs lol, but some OG reylos were actively bullied and doxxed and suicide baited and they 100% have a right to avoid contact with people who previously supported or tacitly tolerated that kind of behavior.

I was in a GC for another fandom last year, totally unrelated to SW, but when I offhand mentioned I was a Reylo it turned out a couple people in the same GC were antis and shit hit the fan. The highlight was prob someone who I thought was my friend bringing up a selfie I’d sent her of me and a male friend at a concert, and trying to use that as “evidence” in an argument that I was straight and he was my boyfriend. Because, you know, a Reylo has to be lying about being queer, because of Reylo

Oh anon, I’m so sorry this happened to you. It’s shitty. It’s literally doxxing, and a horrible betrayal of trust on your ex-friend part. Queer Reylo erasure was unfortunately very common in anti circles. Antis seem to think only white cishet normies can love Reylo---not because it makes any sense, of course, but because it’s the demographic they know they can relentlessly and remorselessly bully while still pretending they’re woke and fighting for a good cause or whatever. And when they’re presented with evidence that actually a lot of Reylos are queer, or non-white, they either assume it’s a lie or bend over backwards to prove that those Reylos have “internalized” -ism.

And what you said describes very well the atmosphere many of us found ourselves in---with people you thought were your friends, or at least nice mutuals, suddenly turning against you or supporting discourse that painted all of us with the same brush as racists, misogynists etc.

I'm so so glad new reylos don't have to deal with the toxicity now that was felt back then. I was new a few months before TLJ came out (mostly because I completely forgot SW was a thing & then I fell upon the wonderful OG reylos' meta), and even that brief amount of toxicity drove me to delete my Tumblr account. I made a new one since then, but I still feel too nervous to make any posts of my own. I tend to just reblog everyone else's thoughtful posts. Thank goodness for blocking buttons & tags. 

I think things changed not just because Reylo got objectively more mainstream and is practically canon now, but also because there’s much more honest discussion about the toxic aspects of this culture. And we Reylos had a part to play in this. We fought back (like other *problematic* shippers did), and we forced anti culture to reveal itself, rather than keep lurking and infiltrating fandom discourse in a underhanded way. We made block lists and recognized potentially toxic patterns in bloggers with a certain theme or certain buzzwords in their blog description. We engaged in public discussions and more and more people started coming out and denouncing how uncomfortable they were with anti arguments. When needed, we closed our ranks and made it clear antis’ feedback on our shipping activities was not welcome. In short, not only we created an environment where our ship could thrive, but we contributed to the rise of an anti-anti culture, which is strongly pro-inclusiveness, pro-intellectualism, pro-intersectionality, pro-nuanced meta analysis, whereas classic anti culture is getting old and relies on the same stifling, reactionary arguments from 5-6 years ago.

[glitchy-npc]

So I know I’m way late to this party but I finally saw The Rise of Skywalker.

I think I have a bit of Star Wars fatigue but it really wasn't as bad as I was lead to believe.

This is just gonna be my initial gut reaction, spoilers under the cut

The beginning moved so fast I barely remember most of it. It just seemed like a lot of unconnected scenes. 

I did love the trio when they were together. Lots of Finn/Rey, Finn/Poe, Poe/Rey and Finn/Rey/Poe vibes. I just wish any one of those had been canon. But at least they're all still alive and I can do what I want. 

Briefly thinking Chewie died SCARED ME SO FUCKING BAD I WAS NOT PREPARED. Tho Rey using force lightning was hot. and in the end she only killed bad guys so win/win.

Zorii Bliss’s outfit was cool but I wanted more out of her character than just to be a convenient plot device or a forced fling for Poe.

I kinda feel like they replaced Rose with Jannah. I really wanted more Rose.

I liked Jannah and I got the feeling there setting up a side adventure with Lando, her and probably Chewie. I’d bet money it would be a Disney + show. 

Leia’s death....I’m not very satisfied with it. I know they couldn't do much with Carrie passed (I’m getting teary eyed just typing this) but it would have been nice to have her talking with Kylo instead of just Han.

I hated the kiss. and I don’t even hate the reylos, everyone's allowed to have their ships but I just can’t see anything romantic between them, force bond or no. It seems too close, like kissing a family member even tho thats just a thing that happens in Star Wars. 

I kinda wish his death was handled a little differently too, not just saving Rey then immediately kicking the bucket and peacing out to the Force.

Tho its interesting Leia didn't return to the Force until after Ben did, I wonder if she was with him the whole time, would have been nice if they showed it.

So are there uuuuuhhhh like thousands of sith? I got the impression all those black hooded figures in Palpys room were sith? sith ghosts? Idk, they didn't last long enough to warrant a story. 

If all those sith destroyers rose from the ice, who was piloting them?

The light saber duels were really good in this one tho Rey and Kylo being perfectly matched every time got a bit stale it was cool to see her try to use his fighting style against him on the death star.

LETS CONFIRM FINN FOR FORCE SENSITIVE AND NOT DO ANYTHING WITH IT. GET THAT BOY A SABER. LET HIM AND REY REBUILD THE JEDI BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE FORCE SENSITIVES AND YOU BEST BELIEVE EVIL HASNT BEEN ERADICATED FROM THE GALAXY CUZ WHEN IS IT EVER. Like its gonna be real frikken convenient when the next big bad finds the skywalker sabers on Tattooine. The planet that nothing ever happens on ever. I just want Rey and Finn to build their own sabers but keep the skywalker ones (in the new jedi temple) to remind them where they started why the Jedi are needed in the first place. 

I guess Rey did build her own saber tho, the yellow one they show in the end, so she does intend to continue her training. 

Despite being “the end” its left really open ended. 

I know no shippers were happy but it wasn't the Finn/Poes, Finn/Reys, or reylos that got it worst....its was anyone who had a Hux ship, that guy just got blasted and forgotten. 

Ok I think it most of my initial feelings out time to watch a million explanation videos now becasue despite it all I am, and ever shall be, Star Wars trash. 

Feel free to message me!

[janiedean]

Why is Kylo even considered abusive tho

...... hahaha. uhm. this is gonna be fun.

(ps: anyone who hates kylo or reylo pls skip this post okay? k.)

people have decided that any relationship (not even romantic, any) that’s like, even moderately problematic or not healthy or in between a villain and a hero is inherently abusive, because of course EVERYTHING is abusive now, and villains that aren’t, er, how we shall say, Approved By Tumblr Standards, are inherently horrible abusive people;

kylo is, sadly, technically a mix of All the things tumblr finds automatically problematic in someone, ie that he’s: a) white, b) a cis man, c) comes from a **privileged background** (let’s just say that for the sake of simplicity), d) has obvious anger issues, e) a villain, f) heterosexual as far as we know (or better: we don’t know he’s not, but you know that for people on tumblr when they hate someone and their sexuality isn’t specified straight becomes the default because obviously if u r evil then you have to be straight. ofc kylo could be bi for all we know, but never mind that, right?), g) not conventionally attractive (or, in tumblr lingo, UGLY, because of course everyone’s canon of beauty is the same!!), which means that given point one above, he’s of course abusive, not even a shred of doubt given. (of course if one or more of these fail to happen, tumblr does the contrary and excuses whatever the bad person does but I’ll shut up before I say things I’ll regret.)

which means that of course any rship he could have with rey is abusive when it’s fucking dumb because in order for a relationship to be abusive you actually have to know that person and be in a relationship of any kind with them - your parents can be abusive (but they’re your parents and you grew up with them), a friendship can be abusive (but then you have had to know this person and be friends with them), a romantic relationship can be (but you have to actually be in love with them or at least be together), and kylo and rey have no such relationship because they met, he captured her, they had their mind-force argument where he tried to get inside her head and she got into his (compare that with what happened with poe I mean XDDD) and then they fought and the next time they met each other it was through the force bond and then you can say they developed a relationship.... where she was the one pretty much taking the first step most of the time and where she saw that there was some good in him? I mean, there’s no bloody way any of that falls under abusive relationship. is it problematic? obviously it has problematic elements because any relationship you have with a dude or woman you fought with/tried to kill/is on your opposite side of the fence can’t not have problematic elements. is it 100% fluff unicorns and rainbows? no. but like, from that to say he’s abusive in general is ridiculous, at most he could be to hux but I mean kylo and hux are generally terrible to each other in turn and that relationship is your usual rival/hateship that’s been around since the beginning of times. at most it’s mutually toxic if you ask me, and anyway no one who ships either reylo or kylux goes around saying it’s The Purest Ship, or at least no one who’s not the usual bad apple that you find in any shipper group.

this also is a perfect mirror of how people on tumblr can’t distinguish what’s coded as abusive and what’s not, because if there is one relationship in the new trilogy that’s explicitly coded as abusive it’s.... snoke and kylo, and kylo is not the abusive part, he’s the abused part of it. I mean, tlj made it overtly clear and the point is that whether you like it or not this guy has been groomed/tormented/lied to by snoke (who is, uh, THE BONAFIDE BAD GUY I mean guys it’s star wars being the palpatine stand-in in the dark side part should say everything really) same as palpatine did to anakin and guess what kylo wants to be anakin/thinks that he’s honoring his grandfather’s footsteps it’s kind of heavily implied, and while obviously there’s no overt sexual subtext because it’s still a disney movie made for kids too I’m fairly sure it’s kind of very subtly implied and other people wrote about it more in-depth than me, but tldr: kylo’s issues (he’s unstable, he’s angry, he doesn’t really know what he wants, he’s volatile and blah blah blah) are all direct consequences of a) being heavily force sensitive, b) feeling like his family failed him (and luke AGREES because wow what did he do before they fought in tlj? apologize to him for failing him, and if you don’t think that han let him kill him also because he thought he failed him idk what movie you watched), c) being groomed and lied to by the evil bad guy of the situation for most of his life, which makes... him... an abuse victim.

of course, tumblr has a really unhealthy approach to how you get to be an abuse victim, which is a whole other wasp nest, but basically on this bloody website anyone who doesn’t meet the Good Victim Standard (ie: they fight against their abuser immediately, they do Good Things, they Show Clear Morals and it’s obvious that They Are Good Guys) is automatically Not A Good Victim and is therefore denied any basic empathy/decency, and anyone who tries to be nice to them or to help them out is there to help the villain’s storyline HOW BAD, OR, if the Bad Victim dares being a man, of course it’s all OH MY GOD CHARACTER X IS GETTING SACRIFICED ON THE ALTAR OF Y’S STORYLINE AND THEIR MANPAIN, because of course if you’re a man you can’t, like, suffer, without it being manpain and not, like, legitimate feelings. which means that poor kylo cannot win because even when the story is coded otherwise and rey helping him out/wanting to reach the good part of him/seeing him as ben solo/etc people don’t see it as, like, rey being a good person and regular character development (nvm that the entire point of the light side in SW is, like, forgiveness, but okay then), but as her character being sold off for the male’s development or whatever else they think it is. which is obviously not true, but the fact that you take a character who has being a decent person in their basic traits and think that in order to Be A Good Person they should want to murder their adversary who is most obviously coded as someone who needs help and has issues but not as the ultimate bad guy rather than, like, did what rey did in tlj ie trying to help them out, says more about whichever anti thinks such things (ie: nothing good) than about the sw writers or whatever. I mean, I unfollowed people for reblogging fanart where rey killed kylo and finn/poe were doing the cheerleading and not just because I don’t want that kinda toxicity but also because it’s absolutely OOC that finn, poe or rey would cheerlead each other over murdering anyone that’s not snoke or the likes -

ah, but wait, who killed snoke?

I mean, given that kylo killed the guy who abused him for years because he threatened to murder the one person who had taken the effort to be nice to him and see his side of the story I think that it’s fairly obvious that he’s not abusing anyone himself and that next movie he’s going back to the light side no question also because they’re not gonna kill the last character with direct skywalker lineage around.

but of course most people around here can’t see past their own preconceptions and don’t understand that if you want to care for mentally ill people/abuse victims you also have to give a fuck about the kylo rens and not just about the finns. let’s just put it out there, I care about finn more than I care about kylo and I’m light side trash so of course I’m into the character and I love that finn understood at once he couldn’t kill people and defected and I love the journey he had, but you can’t just support the people that immediately see the way out and do things the way Good People Are Supposed To Behave. because if you support the finns but ditch the kylo rens then you really will end up with horrible people, because if someone who has the potential to not be a terrible person is left to their own thing without anyone trying to help them out of course they’ll convince themselves they’re not worth it and the more time passes the worst they get. and you can’t go around parading that you care about victims/mentally ill people/abuse victims/whatever if you only think the good ones are worth it. it’s such a calvinist way of thinking that makes my skin crawl tbh but then again tumblr is puritan calvinism hell so what do we even expect.

tldr: because tumblr is calvinist af without knowing it and because people have decided to give up on text comprehension for the joy of being asses to anyone who actually enjoys fictional villains, characters who aren’t necessarily the heroes and the likes.

and before anyone decides to murder me for the above and thinks that I’m a ride or die kylo fan or whatever, I’ll close this saying that: in tfa I really couldn’t care less about kylo (really, I was 100% indifferent), my favorite new trilogy character is actually poe which I find way more interesting/relatable/whatever than i could find kylo, my main ship investment in the new trilogy is finn/poe and before tlj I couldn’t care less for reylo (after... well it’s obvious I’m shipping it, but I started when it turned out to have infinite h/c potential/redemption arc potential because that’s what appeals to me in ships, I don’t care for mutual rivalships/hateships or villain/hero ships just for that, I only am into it if there’s the whole potential h/c angle so I wasn’t into it from the get-go). but I’ve liked enough characters who had stuff in common with kylo to at least recognize the pattern and I’d be fairly not coherent if I stanned theon and hated kylo on principle. ah, and I don’t find kylo particularly attractive either (honest I’d take oscar or john over adam any moment if I had to pick based on attractiveness level to me), but I also don’t feel the need to shame poor adam driver over it, especially when I think it’s a very good thing that people find attractive a type that’s not very hollywood-common and that’s actually considered not pretty/beautiful by canonical standards, so I mean, who cares. but it’s a question of intellectual honestly. *shrug*

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[artaud-d2]

FIND HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE

For two years, countless people online have received all sorts of harassment and downright cruel accusations for seeing a potential romance between Rey and Kylo Ren. And now, after the release of Star Wars: The Last Jedi, I think it’s safe to say that sweet, sweet victory is theirs: the Reylos’.

It may come as a shock to see the violent reaction to this ship, but it has been a sad reality. Ridiculous accusations ranging from “abusive” to “misogynist” or “racist” have been lightly thrown around on the internet, with no regard for the very much real people on the other side of the screens.

For many of us, that’s water under the bridge now. Even the filmmakers are shamelessly validating the ship. Reylos can finally stop calling themselves trash. But I started thinking about all this people who are new to the ship and haven’t grown callous and impervious to that violence, as many old-timers have. All those shy fans hungry for information but too afraid to ask.

That’s what enrages me the most. That so many people have to be afraid for enjoying something in an innocent, creative way that harms no one. That they have to be harassed for doing something as innocuous as shipping. That they may even believe the awful things spat at them by faceless trolls. That they feel downhearted.

And many people online, us included, feel that not only this needs to stop, but that the ship is actually endorsed by canonical evidence. We have it in heaps.

This is just a small taste of the myriad of theories and analyses that have been developed in this two years about the sequel trilogy, otherwise known as Pride and Prejudice in Space. You can click on all the links provided to sate your thirst, if you are so inclined.

Luckily there are loads of meta and articles written by people who saw the connection between Rey and Kylo Ren as romantic as soon as The Force Awakens came out. I mean, they even predicted the Force Bonds. As a side note: many people didn’t see the potential for romance in the first film, and that’s fine. Sometimes fandoms tend towards elitism and that is something we would like to avoid: whether you started shipping Reylo before TLJ or after, or if you have no interest in metas or theories at all, or if you used to be an anti and now see things differently: you’re here now and we love to have you. Be our guest.

So why do we ship Reylo? Well, for the same reason anyone ships anything, really. In the words of the lovely and amazing @myflairway (who helped me write this and I can’t thank enough): Rey and Kylo Ren are fictional characters that represent the deeper aspects of the human psyche, therefore the audience is intended to recognise aspects of them in ourselves. If we see that there is sexual subtext between them, it is completely normal to be curious about their connection on a romantic level.

As consumers, we love to find, consciously or not, archetypes, tropes and parallels in fiction. Star Wars has been defined tirelessly as a fairy tale, and there is much to be analyzed in that aspect. We are instinctively drawn to these characters and situations because something about them resonates with us; we feel connected to them in some level. Mythology exists for a reason, and the Star Wars universe constitutes a mythology in itself, while borrowing elements from others.

There is, for example, an exorbitant amount of parallels with the Beauty and the Beast story, which has been told and retold countless times in history, in different shapes and forms, each in its own unique way. This is closely related to the Death and the Maiden archetype, about which @ohtze (one of the most prolific, accurate and all around awe-inspiring meta writers in the fandom) has written extensively.  An example of this is the Hades and Persephone story, for those of you interested in greek mythology. Another is The Phantom of the Opera. Or Dracula. Even Little Red Riding Hood. I could go on, but a single article wouldn’t suffice. Trust me, the parallels abound; it’s a freaking minefield. A tale as old as time, indeed.

A concept all these stories have in common is the weight of sexuality and its treatment. Yes, even Little Red Riding Hood. As a society, we are pushed to believe that this is a taboo subject, and encouraged to ignore or actively despise its representation, particularly of female sexuality. The Reylo fandom has received a lot of backlash for this: it is believed that any form of exploration of sexuality has no place in a franchise aimed at children as if they haven’t seen any of the previous Star Wars films, or other Disney films for that matter. By simply acknowledging or showing interest in it, we are seen as perverts.

Sidenote: I’m not even going to begin and try to address the “Reylo is abusive” discourse, as many people have done it better than I could ever hope to. Spoiler alert: it really, really isn’t. To even suggest that is a blatant disrespect and lack of consideration to actual abuse survivors. You know who IS abusive and disgusting? That’s right, Snoke. But I digress.

What we’ve seen in the movies, and in this particular ship, is a healthy depiction of discovering one’s own sexuality, especially in Rey’s arc. Yes, you read that right. I’ll say it louder for those on the back. Rey is discovering her sexuality. And taking control of it, as a woman. The symbolism is strong in this one. Cue the gasping and clutching of pearls: how DARE we go with this interpretation, how DARE we sexualize a female character and give her a love interest. What’s worse, a VILLAIN love interest. SHE’S A STRONG CHARACTER WHO DON’T NEED NO MAN. How DARE we reduce her journey to a love story, or subjugating it to Kylo Ren’s arc. Well, newsflash: we are not.

What we do is analyze Rey’s independent character and her journey time and time again, just as we do with Ben Solo’s. He also receives a lot of criticism for being *gasp* a MALE character who shows EMOTIONS. The AUDACITY. Evidently many people just can’t handle that they are complex, many-layered characters that don’t exactly fit gendered stereotypes, or the way their stories intertwine.

A vital point in both their arcs is the way they connect, and the way they clash. They are essential to each other's stories, without interdependence or loss of agency. Two halves of the protagonist, remember? Sure, this interaction could be aromantic, but look at all this proof that it very much isn’t. Besides, love and sexuality are important forces in a character’s development, just as in a real, flesh-and-blood person’s life. We are sexual beings who need love. And when we put Rey and Ben’s backstories under the magnifying glass, it becomes obvious that the most difficult thing these characters can do is learn to love, and to forgive.

Love is not a weakness of character. It is a strength. By shipping these two sweet, lonely idiots we are not taking their agency away. We are empowering them.

And people can disagree; that’s completely fine. What is certainly not fine is choosing to be belligerent about it, bullying and abusing other fans or the filmmakers and actors themselves. I’m sorry for the violence made against all of them, and this is a small attempt to fix that, to protect you and make you feel validated. What I’m trying to say, all in all, is this: don’t be afraid. You’re not alone.

Menin is a musician and occasional writer from Buenos Aires. Winner of the "Less Active Blog Ever" award, you can find her on Tumblr at menin-aeide, or on Soundcloud if you want to listen to like the one thing she recorded when she thought no one was looking. Also, she sucks at writing bios for herself.

[reyloeyesofmist]

Bustle.com  is becoming pretty Anti-Reylo as days pass by. Unfortunately there are too many articles online as predictable, sanctimonious and anti as the one I'm goint to comment on. Have a look at this "beauty": https://www.bustle.com/p/why-rey-kylo-ren-can-never-be-redeemed-no-matter-how-much-reylo-fans-ship-them-7737310 By OLIVIA TRUFFAUT-WONG Spoilers ahead for The Last Jedi. Gather 'round, Reylo shippers, it's time to have a talk. The Rey and Kylo Ren ship that set sail when The Force Awakens was released in 2015 has only gained steam in recent weeks, thanks to The Last Jedi. But, fans of the ship will have to face the harsh truth that Rey and Kylo can never be redeemed as a couple, because as much as it may pain you to admit it, Kylo is actually pretty damn awful. Even putting aside the fact that he's a murderer who killed his own father, Kylo hasn't really proven himself capable of being a friend to anyone, let alone a lover. Now, that's not to say that the Reylo ship doesn't have merit. Do Kylo and Rey have an undeniable chemistry in The Force Awakens? Yes. Is their Force connection unlike any other relationship we've seen in the Star Wars universe? Yes. Are Rey and Kylo both super hot Force badasses who could take over the galaxy together as one awesome super couple? You bet. But, just because the Reylo ship is fun to take a ride on, that doesn't mean it should actually happen. In reality, if Rey and Kylo Ren's relationship were to become canon, it might just become the most toxic relationship in the Star Wars saga — including Anakin and Padmé — and here's why. Kylo Is A Straight-Up Murderer & Probably A War Criminal

I’m fed up with this kind of articles about movies, they are getting really annoying and tyring, so I’m goint to add my two cents about Reylo and anti-articles on Websites.

Reading that article made me feel secondhand embarrasment, at least this is what I felt when I read it, because it's so terribly unprofessional and so wrong. It's the kind of article that might belong in a personal blog because people are entitled to their own opinions, however warped they are, but it should have no place on a site that readers can take seriously. It has nothing to do with criticism on a movie. Instead of focusing on the movie itself this writer extrapolates the story to accommodate it to her personal opinions and makes judgements of value on fan's views on life, expectations and what they should like or enjoy in a story. This article is not about TLJ, it's about policing what viewers should enjoy, and what's worse, whether people should be given a second chance after making mistakes and who deserves to be loved. What does this have to do with the quality of a story? Nothing at all. Also, this person feels entitled to tell others who is to be seen as a war criminal, a terrorist or an abuser in a relationship. We Reylo fans are not children (at least many of us aren't) and it isn't her job to educate us or show us what is morally acceptable or not. This is about a community, the Reylo community, and this person feels entitled to tell Reylo stans and anyone who happens to like Reylo what they think or enjoy is wrong. She doesn't criticize Disney, the writers or LF for the story they have given us, she criticizes a certain group of fans who just happened to understood and enjoy the story they have been offered. We are not responsible for Reylo and what it represents. If she thinks what is on screen is so toxic, she should complain to the right people, those who made this story possible, not to the fans who enjoy it. If authors paid any mind to this kind or articles which unfortunately have become so common these days, all pieces of fiction would be utter trash. If all the characters in a story had to be models of perfection and paragons of virtue, they wouldn't reflect the real world, to start with, their characters wouldn't be relatable, because despite what this person seems to think real people are far from perfect, more often than not relationship aren't exactly healthy, people have bad moments and love isn't about finding yourself a Mr Perfect who can do nothing wrong. If you find yourself a Mr Perfect lucky you, but do flawless people really exist?  Most of us aren't perfect and if we want acceptance for our flaws and forgiveness for our mistakes we should be able to give others a chance. It's not right to jump on high horses and judge others so harshly. If this woman was right, reading Shakespeare plays or Greek tragedies would be immoral, and enjoying westerns or action films, for instance would also be wrong. There should be no villains or morally grey characters in stories and all the characters should be unrealistically good. What a bore! There would be no tension and no drama. This article shouldn't be taken seriously, but the problem is that many people will read it and the site has a responsibility towards its readers. This kind of articles send a bad message and perhaps even try to have an influence on what the writers will do with IX. The article is laughable but its intentions are shady, at best. I'm really sick of finding this kind of articles that do no favours to movies or viewers. A journalist's view on what is terrorism, a war crime or anything of the sort is not what readers usually look for when they read an article about a movie. She is even wrong when she says Kylo is abusive when Rey is the one who hurts him physically, breaks his heart and betrays his trust. If she didn't trust that he would let her go after he killed the master who'd been manipulating him for years for her sake, then maybe the problem was hers and not his. Pretending she was going to accept his offer and take his hand and summoning his lightsaber instead felt very much like betrayal to a man who already feels betrayed by everyone and who only trusts her at this point. Of course she didn't have to accept his offer, but was playing a trick on him and leaving him unconscious and vulnerable the right thing to do? Her decision nearly cost him his life. She took her choice and her priority wasn't him, this is not new for Ben Solo, it's the story of his life repeating itself. Is Rey abusive, is she a bad person? I don't think so, but she isn't perfect either, she is just human. She feels something for Ben, but perhaps she isn't ready to accept him for what he is, and love is about acceptance, not about changing those we love. He needs help to find his way again and she is not responsible for his salvation, but if she loves him, maybe she could support him with her love and faith. It's her choice. In the end, he'll have to save himself but as Mazz says, he needs her help. In fact, what she did for him has already made a different and thanks to her he got rid of Snoke. But I'm digressing, an article about a movie shouldn't try to have an influence on people's moral compass, and enjoying stories about flawed characters doesn't mean you condone what these characters do. Another thing I find disturbing is how some people think once a person falls because they've lost their way or have made terrible mistakes there's no way back. What message is this? How is it right to show children that if a person makes very bad decisions it'll be impossible to come back home or try to find the right path again. I don't think this is a good message for children. It isn't a good message for anyone. It's a bleak and hopeless message.

[starwarsdestroyedme]

I've been shipping Reylo for 2 years + right now I can't believe how far it has got, I am so proud of the Reylo community

So here's my story with this ship:

I went to see TFA on 31 of December 2015, because that's how you celebrate that day of the year, watching Star Wars, (also, I didn't have the opportunity to go on the release date). And I remember getting outside of the cinema ( I wasn't even outside of the shopping centre I went to), I had this friend who LOVED Star Wars as much as I do and the first thing I did was messaging her saying: "OKAY I WATCHED STAR WARS, AAAAND KYLO REM AND RAY ARE SHIPPED FOR LIFE". At the time I didn't even know how to properly spell their names, and I couldn't care less because I was too hyped. Still, I didn't go full fangirl die hard shipper mode on social media, basically because I thought I was too far fetched and also my friend shipped Finnrey (although she like Kylo's character). After a while I started to read the fanfictions, and I found one called "Balance", that was in progress at the time, and I became trash. That fic fed my shipping needs and made me realize that I wasn't nuts, that Reylo was a thing out there. After that I drew my first fanart, granted that it didn't get any relevance, but creating it made me happy. Later, I made a friend who also shipped Reylo and the fangirling skyrocketed. We commented new fanarts, headcanons... And VINCENT VENDETTA REYLO PT 1 HAPPENED. I stumbled upon the video casually on YT, and went nuts, I sent it to my Reylo shipper friend and we were super excited. As time went by the Reylo community grew bigger and it was totally amazing. So imagine how I felt after watching TLJ. I wasn't able to speak for two hours because I had too much to process. I swear that during the force bond scenes I was wondering whether they had got that out of a fanfiction or not. I couldn't believe it. But yes, Reylo is canon, and I can't even begin to say how proud I feel of the Reylo community after all the rejection we had to withstand. I am glad that I've been here from the beginning and I would like to welcome all new reylos. I hope that we get an episode IX with a redemption arc for Ben and keep up with a good vibe within the community. And that's my story.

[reylo-ftw]

Hey Reylo family!

I'm kinda drunk right now so I'm gonna type this out before I get completely wasted. It has been quite a wild ride since our ship first left the port. We started as a trash ship that was belittled and mocked, and yet here we are, one movie later with our ship essentially canon. We've come reeeeaaaly far, and we pretty much stayed a one big happy family in the meantime. So I wanna say this to all of you. I pray that 2018 is a fantastic year for you. I pray that you are financially stable and have enough for everything you need. I pray that you always have a place to rest your head at the end of the day. I pray that you are warm and safe and comfortable no matter where you are in the world. I pray you find peace, no matter your circumstances. I pray that you find joy, even when you are sad. I pray that you always have a reason to laugh. I pray that you have people who are good and kind in your life. I pray that you are HAPPY. Hell, we deserve it. Happy New Year, Reylo family! May this year kick ass! I love you all!

[musicals-x-fandoms-blog]

The Light and The Dark of Reylo

analysis time !!! :D 

so ya girl just saw the last jedi last night and wowowowowow was it GOOD. and this post is gonna be the exploration of the future of Reylo and for you antis to see from the shippers’ POV.

WARNING: HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD (the actual stuff is gonna be beyond the break so that yall who haven’t seen it won’t be spoiled)

Personally, I’m not a Reylo shipper—even after watching TLJ, I simply don’t think they look good together. That doesn’t mean that I can’t look at Reylo from an objective standpoint, nor does that also mean that I have to trash other people’s opinion. Its just my personal taste.

There’s a difference.

However, during TLJ, I finally understood why people ship it. Hard. If its the direction they’re trying to go for, I feel like that could’ve been better set up in TFA, so that everyone comes home a winner. 

So, the next part of the post is dedicated to the hardcore anti-Reylo shipper, in an attempt to make them (at the very least) understand why Reylo is being shipped so much.

The Light

Kylo and Rey bring balance to the Force. Their union creates a new Chosen One, since they are seen as one entity that brings balance to the Force. Rey symbolises the light (sorry not sorry: rey as in ‘ray of light’), Kylo the dark. 

From the beginning of the movie, we see these two, broken, lost characters forming an extremely strong bond, something that was built on from the shaky introduction of their vague relationship in TFA. (Whether or not it actually was started by Snoke, we don’t know.) 

From an anti-Reylo POV, I couldn’t really figure out what this meant. Were they gonna form a romantic relationship? Is something about the both of them gonna be revealed (ala Luke and Leia style)? 

However, during the shirtless scene, I immediately thought that: oh, these are the foundations for a very romantic relationship as shirtless scenes tend to be associated with romantic, sometimes sexual connotations (just take a look at any romcom). 

The ‘hands touch, eyes meet’ (soz wicked fam) scene was also lathered with romantic tension, as Rey feels his conflict: the call to the light. On the other hand, Rey is called to the darkness during Luke’s training. In doing so, Rey becomes Yin (light with a bit of dark), Kylo Yang(dark with a bit of light). 

Moreover, Rey’s (Luke’s) lightsaber is blue. Blue is a colour often associated with peace and hope. She is also seen wearing lighter colours (gray, white), which also have positive connotations. Kylo’s lightsaber is red, a colour associated with power and evil. He also wears black for majority of the movie, a colour with very dark connotations (its literally darkness, i just dont know how to word it well).

In addition, Rey’s desperate attempt to save Kylo from the Dark Side of the Force not only mirrors Luke’s heroic attempt to save Vader from the original trilogy, but is also lathered with romantic tension established from earlier scenes. One thing is clear: she loves Kylo, one way or another, and is willing to save him from the Dark Side. 

When Kylo kills Snoke, the audience is shocked. He has turned good and fought against the evil in him. During the battle scene, the audience is in awe of the harmony between the two of them. (it was vvvvvvvv iconic) It is symbolic of the balance in the Force. 

That is why people ship it.

Imma just take that one step further and predict this: if one of them dies, so does the other. After all, what is light if darkness doesn’t exist? What is darkness if light doesn’t exitst? Nothing. If one of them dies, there will be a large imbalance in the Force, it could be catastrophic. You can’t have too much light without darkness and vice versa. 

(ill admit, i kinda felt the call to the reylo ship during the fight scene, but i was like, nah)

The Dark

However, the future is bleak for the Reylo shippers. 

I honestly would’ve been fine with Reylo being canon, if their beliefs and who they symbolise weren’t too contrasting. The whole idea of them getting together is cute, its just that they have very strong beliefs against each other, that that would be such a huge obstacle in their relationship.

Kylo’s desire to bring Rey to the dark side is what causes the downfall of their relationship (don’t believe me? check the anidala and reylo parallels on the reylo tag). As much as these two idiots love each other, Kylo prioritises power, Rey prioritises hope and goodness. 

From someone who has kinda experienced the same thing, I understand the hope she has for Kylo. If you love someone, you want them to evade everything that would cause them harm, and you would believe even in the faintest glimmer of hope. but even more so, I understand why she chose to say, “no. I don’t think this is right.”

Rey doesn’t deserve Kylo. 

Kylo is written as an arrogant child who, basically, throws a tantrum when Rey doesn’t follow him down the Dark Side. Rey, stubborn as she is, is smart. Although she has feelings for Kylo, she doesn’t let that cloud her judgment of what’s good and what isn’t. Rey doesn’t want power, she wants what is right. If she joined him, she would’ve been a traitor to the rebellion and may have fallen down the evil hole because of her love for him. She doesn’t want that, does she? 

When she leaves him, he attacks the rebel forces, as revenge for ‘not getting the girl.’ Whether or not you are a Reylo shipper, you’ve gotta admit, that was pretty pathetic. If you truly love someone, you respect their decisions, even if they go against yours. You go through the pain, the suffering. If they’ve gone too far, you’ve gotta let them go and fight the battles you need to fight. Otherwise, you would’ve ended up going down the same route they did. 

Towards the end, when Rey shuts the door of the Falcon on Kylo, people have said that it is symbolic of her ‘ending’ whatever relationship they had. I don’t disagree with that. 

I think now, whatever they have in store for Reylo in IX, will result in huge sacrifices. I refuse to believe that they will kill either Kylo or Rey, because, if one of them dies, so does the other. So, they might kill Kylo and Rey, because of the same reason. Doing so will result in the search for a new Chosen One, which means more stories, more exploration and, more money for the Disney fam. 

whew! soz if it felt too waffle-y at some points, i kinda lost my opinion while writing, but i hope this post has enlightened you, one way or another. 

may the force be with y’all :D

[janiedean]

Hi Janie! So, I admit to a bit of ignorance pertaining the whole “anti”-debacle. I’ve seen anti and anti-anti posts that say the same thing, sometimes it’s about morally offensive things, sometimes about completely unrelated stuff and I can’t make heads nor tails of it, especially since there isn’t really a wealth of actual information? Just rants... *sigh* If it’s possible, do you think you could explain what the problem is? (Does that need to be in plural?) and the „sides“? Thank you! ❤️

anon you asked the question of the century I’m afraid X°D THAT SAID let’s... see if I can make this understandable.

so: the anti debate is... pretty much tied to the whole ‘politics in fandom discourse’ and you can’t separate the two of them sadly. of course I come from the not anti side of fandom so what do I know. anyway, premise:

what happened is that in the last two/three years, whether we liked it or not, the debate in fandom has moved from ‘my ship is better than yours’ to ‘my ship is better than yours because it’s more progressive/woke’, which has gone hand in hand with the political fandom views of any media product, ie ‘you can’t watch that because it lacks representation’ or ‘that show is crap because it’s not woke enough or doesn’t treat that topic well’ and so on, and with a tendency to think that if you ship anything you want it to be canon because it only is worth anything if it becomes such (which imo is bullshit but never mind);

this has moved on to also judging people based on their ships, as in: ‘ship X is wrong because it’s problematic for X reason therefore if you ship it you support X irl and you’re problematic and you need to be stopped’. such as ‘thor/loki is wrong because it’s incest so if you ship thor/loki you’re okay with incest irl and you want to bang your siblings if you have any’, which is a ridiculous notion but this goes also hand in hand with the fact that people have suddenly decided to trash all the psychology that confirmed how violent videogames don’t influence reality and now think that liking something problematic influences you irl because they don’t grasp the difference between fandom and mass-media consumption of a mass-media product;

they also don’t grasp the concept of catharsis through media nor of the really basic concept that most normal people who see themselves in fiction don’t take the entire package but relate to specific things;

keeping THAT in mind:

the whole ‘anti’ thing, as ‘people being opposed to a ship or a trend’ is basically people saying that you cannot ship a thing or be into a problematic character or kink because it says something about you and not about your fictional preferences and actively go around being assholes to people who ship the thing while at the same time gatekeeping/policing their own ships which are of course Purer Than The Others and bringing politics into it, too;

this also goes with a frankly problematic (AND I’M USING THE WORD NON-IRONICALLY) attitude that those people have of equating age gaps with pedophilia always and considering children people older than thirteen/fourteen, which automatically makes them think of people who ship age gaps even in between adults pedophiles (I kid you not a friend who’s over thirty in a rship with a person fifteen years older got told that their rship was pedophilia because their partner was an adult when they were a child at some point in their lives. I mean, IMAGINE THAT.);

to give the to-go example these days because it’s sadly the worst: sw sequel trilogy fandom. rey/kylo has been targeted by antis as the to-go Most Problematic Ship because in order:a) enemies to lovers as a trope which is of course abusive if the good side is a woman (more on that later) b) both are white (so it’s racist to not ship her with the non-white people in the light side *roll eyes*)c) they have a ten years age gap (so it’s pedophilia even if rey’s of age and she kicked his ass more than once)d) he’s not technically good looking so it sets people’s worst instincts offe) these people don’t buy into the fact that people can be redeemed so they decided he’s absolutely Not Redeemable and so onf) it’s an m/f couplenow, rey/lo is admittedly a fairly tame ship as far as problematic goes - it’s honestly your typical enemies to friends to lovers trope that’s been in media since the beginning of time, but according to these ppl it’s The Worst and if you dare being into it you must be a pedophile, racist, misogynist (or internalized misogynist), straight person (because of course only straight ppl ship m/f) - and yes, being straight is a problem but more on that later. but since you can ship her with finn (black) or you could ship finn and poe (black and latino actors) if you’re not into either you’re problematic. too bad that if you ship finn and poe (WHICH I DO) these days it’s... let’s just say I’ve seen a list of ‘problematic f/p writers’ where the reasons for the PROBLEMATIC was that they took a fluff ship and wrote it dubcon. oKAY. also pre tlj fandom was full of block lists for r/eylo shippers where you’d get the name plus ALL REASONS WHY THEY HAD TO BE HARASSED OUT OF FANDOM which you will imagine does not sit well with me since that’s... like... the most fascist thing you could do (NO REALLY BAN LISTS OF PERSONE NON GRATAE WITH REASONS WHY THEY WERE IS A THING THAT HAPPENS IN DICTATORSHIPS AND SOCIETY WHERE EVERYTHING IS CENSORED LIKE BANNED BOOKS) in this circumstance, but hey, if you’re anti-reylo and you’re doing the above you’re just doing the work of the lord because you’re saving people from the Horrible Problematic Ship, and meanwhile I don’t want anything to do with a fandom where people do block lists for how you write your fanfic IN GENERAL. like, concrit is more than welcome but lists? please don’t fucking kid me;

I used r/eylo as an example because it’s the epitome of what anti-shipping ends at, but there’s also sh/eith from voltron which is two guys, with a seven years age gap but both are adults now and were older than 15 when they met, who have the sweetest less problematic relationship ever and people who ship.. the other rival ship decided that it’s pedophilia, SUPPORTS INCEST on the grounds of one of the two tell the other ‘you’re like a brother to me’ SERIOUSLY and that it’s abusive and by shipping it you’re a pedophile. k;

also, this entire thing ties with the fact that these people seem to think that having sex when older than fourteen is somehow bad, which means that if you write someone under the age of 18 (and sometimes NOT EVEN THAT see voltron above) you’re automatically a *pedophile* even if teenagers aren’t children and fictional characters are fictional and never hurt anyone, and that goes hand in hand with the fact that these people seem to largely be against kink;

specifically: ‘bdsm is abusive’ (???), ‘you can’t be a feminist if you like kink’ (OKAY???), ‘if you read/write noncon fanfic you have a problem and you’re terrible’ etc, with a specific subset being against specific kinks that play on a certain angle ie daddy kink and so on which are PEDOPHILIA now, which is again an extremely puritanical way to see the world, not progressive;

at this point we have a situation where a bunch of *antis* specifically target people who are into *problematic* things whether it’s ships, characters, kinks and so on and are going like THINK OF THE CHILDREN half of the time. the children being them, of course.

at this point we have the other discourse we need to have ie about the age and sexuality of the people involved in fandom and why it matters:

now: a lot of fandom is made up of women. it’s statistics. a significant statistical part of the old guard (25+-30+ people ie my generation plus the previous 40+ older generation) is cis women (who can be straight or bi but are attracted to men) who went into fandom writing m/m slash. a significant part of this group is into either problematic ships or kink and such on. but in our understanding of fandom, the key terms were ship and let ship + your kink is not my kink + don’t like don’t read. as in: outside your usual MY SHIP IS BETTER THAN YOURS wank was generally understood that people liked things different than yours and that you had no business being an ass over it, and back in the day warnings were at the beginning - when I went into fandom warnings were not a thing. now there’s warnings everywhere which is GOOD and guess why ao3 was made by... the old guard/old fans, which of course are not very pleased with being told they’re pedophiles or perverts for shipping a thing or, *drum rolls*, that they fetishize gay men by shipping m/m or writing m/m porn, and are fairly vocal about it;

on the other side, this new wave of younger fans who thinks is progressive along with older fans who are assholes/most likely grooming the youngers (because this anti shipping thing is seriously cult-like at this point) calling the old generation all the stuff above and pushing the idea that they want ‘old straight ciswomen out of fandom’ because ‘they have gross ideas and THEY DON’T WANT TO READ OUR GROSS FIC’ and such things. we can also talk for ten years about how the new wave has decided that straight = insult but again, tumblr politics. all goes hand in hand;

so basically the sides are ‘younger fans who thinks they are progressive but are actually being puritan af’ vs ‘older fans who want to do their damned thing’ with some people obviously crossing into the others’s territory;

(and mind that not counting SW, most of the anti drama happens in fandoms for... animated cartoons and the likes - vo/ltron, ste/ven universe and so on, which says a lot about the age discourse, but nvm that);

now, the problem is that by telling some woman older than you that she can’t safely explore her sexual fantasies/kinks in fiction about fake characters you’re basically doing the same thing as policing women’s sexual fantasies that has been going on since the dawn of time, so it’s actually hella misogynist, and the fact that it goes with people saying that you can’t be a feminist who likes kink and that kink is abuse/misogynist... is still policing women’s sexualities, irl and fictionally, and that’s what they’re doing at the end of it;

on top of that, they’re also policing what non-straight, non-female fans who ship problematic stuff do and most of all, there’s the shipping to cope bush of thorns.

about shipping to cope:

now, this entire system had to, at some point, deal with the very true fact that a lot of people who are into problematic stuff/kinks/noncon (not all of them of course) engage with that material to work out their issues - a lot of the time it’s abuse victims writing it to elaborate on their abuse and take control of it and so on and usually... a lot of them aren’t even straight (honestly, almost everyone I know who ships th/ramsay ie noncon torture ship that I personally don’t like myself is... not straight, and a lot of them do ship to cope) and telling them you cannot handle your recovery with whichever system they see fit is... RUDE at best. which is why there’s antis who are like ‘shipping to cope is fine but JUST IF IT’S TO COPE’ which means that in order to be given the green light you have to out yourself and tell people you were abused and other antis who are like ‘SHIPPING TO COPE IS WRONG BECAUSE YOU JUST MAKE IT WORSE’ which is... not a thing that happens to everyone and actually every psychologist worth their salt in the world disagrees (or better: for some people it’s bad to do but for others it’s cathartic, and the latter shouldn’t be not able to do it because the former can’t blacklist or because kids on the internet decided that shipping to cope is bad);

so a lot of antis are actually crossing into the territory of wanting to police how people handle their own experience of abuse (honestly once someone told a friend who explained them from a professional pov the valid of problematic/violent art as a cathartic, healthy way to deal with you shit, and who told them that they were an abuse victim who dealt with it in different ways, to GO ON GOOGLE AND LOOK UP HOW IT WORKS and that person knew shit about it period just to say one) and telling people they can’t process their abuse in THAT way but just in THIS way, feeding into the idea that there’s a right way to process abuse and a wrong way to react to it which in turns becomes good victim vs bad victim;

(and then you wonder why they hate kylo ren... who’s a Bad Victim under the definition of the word but hey whatever)

and this is all thrown under the rug of ‘we need to police problematic attitudes in fandoms’ which is 100% bullshit because if you run into someone specifically problematic you should explain them on a one-on-one basis, not do the witch hunt, and you should never presume to police how people handle their own shit, never mind that 90% of the time the so-called problematic material is consumed by a small percentage of people and you can choose to like, not read it;

and by the way, 90% of the actually problematic fandom trends don’t get called out because it wouldn’t be progressive (I can talk for ages about how it’s really worrying that ppl headcanon characters as X following stereotypes that are actually hurtful for the category in question but since the hc = a minority then it’s always okay) but that’s an entire other problem;

tldr: the anti side, as much as they want to think they’re not doing it, are actively policing the content that other people put online based on supposed ‘moral’ standards which 90% of the time aren’t even true (a 16yo in a relationship with a 20yo is NOT pedophilia period) and even going as far as ‘I’ll press charges to the FBI because X wrote underage fic’ when according to the US law if it’s fictional characters it doesn’t count as such and it only does if real recognizable minors are involved (and in that case it shouldn’t be happening in the first place) and those people might be whoever, and for all they support feminism they also end up being incredibly misogynist.

or, just because I like to use my own experiences as an example: this year I had the horrid idea of replying to a post made obviously by anti people where I told them that straight women writing m/m ie what they’re attracted to of course have more in common with a guy into guys in that sense and not with a lesbian since they’re not attracted to women and that writing m/m wasn’t inherently fetishizing shit. since then I’ve had people:

informing me I MUST have internalized homophobia

assuming shit about my sex life that wasn’t even true including which positions I like in bed (because of course straight women only identify with the gay bottom so they’re capitalizing off that experience when some of us don’t)

assuming I was disgusted at the idea of writing lesbian sex (false, I wrote it when I was in the mood)

informing me that writing fanfic about canonical m/m characters wasn’t activism and I shouldn’t presume I was one for that (I never said I considered it such) but at the same time these people think reporting incest fic to ao3 is... activism, but nvm that

telling me that I was a sad old bitch who needed to find a husband and grow up (I MEAN NOT EVEN IN THE FIFTIES) (I’m 29 btw hardly old) because it was the only way my life could have had sense

informing me that of course I was that horrible since I’m italian and all italians beat their wives (NOT XENOPHOBIC AT ALL)

accusing me of writing torture porn with gay characters to get off (never wrote torture porn once in my life, not with gay characters nor any character)

(most ppl I know into torture porn aren’t straight btw)

telling me that I didn’t understand my own attraction to men

assuming that my parents must have thrown me out of the house at some point, that I had no friends and that I never got laid

and in another occasion I got sent fanart of a ship that I said upset me because I had the gall to tell people to leave the shippers alone but hey what do I know

and a bunch of other stuff I won’t bother you with but that to me sounds hella misogynist (I mean, GO BACK TO THE KITCHEN AND FIND A HUSBAND, srsly?). spoilers: I never write noncon, I’m into a few kinks but most are literally harmless, the wildest thing I’m into writing is... 100% consensual d/s sex, the most problematic thing I’m into is thor/loki and I hadn’t shipped it until I realized that... it was cathartic (ps: no, I don’t think irl incest is okay as a general thing) and for the rest I’m famous for... being the person who almost never kills people in fandom X°D I mean, I got that shit and I laughed about it, but what if they sent it to an abuse victim or someone who actually got kicked out of the house? who knows, but sure af they only seem to care about victims when it’s convenient to them and when the victims agree. *shrug* but the above is absolutely okay if you tell that to a straight cis woman who doesn’t particularly feel like writing f/f sex (which is ANOTHER plot point but never mind that I can’t possibly go into how tumblr has decided that f/f relationships without sex are the Thing Everyone Should Aspire To and everything else is a problem including lesbians having kinky sex). anyway, that was all antis. heck, a round of the shit above was started because an anti-ship blog found an oldass ask related to that wank, so.

tldr: the point is that we’re always talking about the same old dumb fandom war ie my ship is better than yours and my fave is better than yours, but now the arguments aren’t just about ships, are about which one is most moral or pure or non-problematic and if you dare being into anything else for your own reasons in your own life (I forgot friends who’ve been told they abuse their partners because they’re into kink, WHAT A DAY) when the *else* is fictional (ie doesn’t exist) and you don’t even do the thing irl or would want to but just want to explore it fictionally, then you are that problematic thing and so *you* are problematic and guess what, there’s a nice witch hunt starting and -

ops.

HOW SURPRISED I AM.

I mean, it’s 90% wanting to censor people and all of that time it’s useless that they dress it as ‘FIGHTING PEDOPHILES’ because thing is, now that everyone rolls their eyes at it because you think ‘right, real pedophiles or people who ship the wrong voltron ship,’ actual pedophiles have free reign and actually whenever I see a post to report a real one it has very little notes in comparison to OMG REY/LO IS PROBLEMATIC and stuff, and the one time I got linked one I checked because I didn’t trust tumblr and let me tell you I wish I didn’t. anti shipping or being anti kink is just... 90% wanting to be puritans without knowing that you’re a puritan and you’re still policing women’s sexualities and abuse victims’s reactions and you’re not helping anyone.

and you sound like those soccer moms from the 90s who thought playing tekken made their kids violent or that marilyn manson’s music caused the columbine shootings which is a thing that has been disproved since two weeks after it happened. and these people have no idea that media influences you to the point you let it and that fiction is not reality. *shrug* and that was my offer to this contribution, I know I’ll get roasted at this point but I’m beyond giving two fucks at this point. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯