#pathologic demand avoidance

[thatadhdmood]

Working with Autism PDA (pathologic demand avoidance) by "strewing" (setting up an activity that u want to do for your later self even thought PDA wont do it right now)

Doing this removes barriers from doing the activity for later when the stress and pressure to do it has released without executive dysfunction of setting up the activity

[p1xelpc]

they need to invent a brain that works.

[ahdor]

the way I got recommended a video about PDA and this creator is scripting my life? oh, alright

[autball]

A child is having outbursts at school, or at home, or wherever else, on a pretty regular basis. And at some point, someone suggests that they need to learn better coping skills.

They suggest therapy, or maybe there’s even a special program at school. Because yes, better coping skills/self-regulation skills/frustration tolerance really would solve everything, wouldn’t it?

Well those are fine skills to have, to be sure, but more often than not, it’s not what that child (or adult) needs most. What they really need is someone to figure out what’s stressing them out so much and then do something about THAT.

Because it’s not actually weird to be distressed over distressing things. Maybe *you* don’t understand what’s so distressing about school or the grocery store or that new person in the house, but that doesn’t mean *their* distress isn’t legit.

People reeaalllly like to suggest better coping skills for autistic, ADHD, and otherwise ND folks. (Since we already have a diagnosis, it’s that much easier to locate the problem in US.) And what they’re really saying with this an awful lot of the time is, “Can you please stop being so distressed by distressing things because it’s making a lot of work for us and we’re not about to change anything for you.”

So before you put someone in some sort of therapy that will teach them that they’re wrong to be upset about the things that upset them and how to get better at pretending to be okay, maybe consider that you might be expecting them to “cope” with more than they can reasonably be expected to.

[cancerstanople]

What to do if you have a demand you desperately need to fulfill and you can't:

Make up a shitty little character in your head to give you the exact opposite demand, so you can avoid THAT demand while getting done what you need to get done. "Do not brush your teeth." Fuck you Janet, I'm gonna do what I want.

Make up a story that would reframe the task at hand as an act of rebellion or spite. "I live in a world where showering is illegal and if I get caught I'm going to jail for a thousand years."

Use that task to procrastinate on other tasks. "I've got homework I really need to do...hey I haven't done my laundry in a while."

[ditzydoodiary]

i feel really bad for saying this, but something i struggle with regarding my autism is trying to sound interested in other people's interests. i try so hard to seem interested because i know that feeling of being ignored when infodumping about your interests, but also, my own interests are so restricted that i cant get into/seem interested in anyone elses interests.

i cant get into things people recommend me, at all, no matter how hard i actually want to because it just feels like a demand. i also cant get into anything else even if i myself really want to get into it. especially if someone else's interests involve anything with real humans. cant watch anything thats live action, it needs to be animated and usually has to involve animals in some way.

[autism-affirmations]

[my-autism-adhd-blog]

10 Signs of 'Pathological Demand Avoidance (AKA Persistent Drive for Autonomy)

Neurodivergent_lou

[autisticdreamdrop]

fr PDA is tough

[ohara-n-brown]

Saying 'You're not lazy if you want to do the thing. Choosing not to do it because you don't want to it's laziness-'

Still throws Autistic people with Pathological Demand Avoidance under the bus

Executive Dysfunction is not the end all be all and you are not better than others for 'wanting to do' the thing but being unable to.

There are many autistic people that find themselves unable to do something once their minds has decided that it's being forced to do an action.

Saying that if you don't want to do your homework or the chores or the laundry - then you are lazy - DOESN'T HELP

It's not that I want to shower but I can't get up. It's that I DON'T want to shower because I feel like I HAVE to or else I'll be ridiculed for not doing it.

It's something that helps me, but knowing I HAVE to do it today, and tomorrow, and the day after that, on end with no choice of my own - makes me genuinely want to avoid the act.

'if you were lazy you would be having fun' - that implies that if we ignore a challenging task we don't want to do in order to do something self soothing and fruitful we are lazy.

That it's a moral failing instead of a sign the person needs help starting, or motivating themselves, or understanding the task.

Of course if something is hard, or confusing, and time consuming - someone won't want to do it. ESPECIALLY if they're disabled.

Calling them lazy for that isn't okay. You're just throwing other disabled people under the bus.

You and your executive dysfunction are no better just because you 'want' to do the laundry but can't.

Or that you're not lazy but we are because you really really wish you could wash the dishes meanwhile I really really wish I could throw myself down a hole rather than complying with a forceful demand - no matter how small. Including someone asking me to wash the dishes.

We still have do those things just like people without PDA.

The only difference is we're still called lazy at every turn despite the fact that every demand feels like being held at gunpoint with no choice.

Just because you want to something doesn't make you 'not lazy'.

Laziness DOESN'T EXIST.

If you have PDA, and find it hard to do ANYTHING you don't want to do - I love you. You are not lazy. You're trying your best. Keep going.

CAN WE STOP WITH THE LAZY STUFF NOW

[giritina]

I think I posted this one time and got anon hate

[phleb0tomist]

pathological demand avoidance in autism is wild. my body will be like “i need the bathroom” and my brain will be like “ok” but then my nervous system will be like “i perceive this as a threat so now i’m systematically going through all the evolutionary adrenaline responses”

[aibidil]

I think every parent of a neurodivergent kid learns VERY quickly (likely before they know their kid is neurodivergent) that the hardest part of the parenting gig is unlearning our assumptions about what is "acceptable" or "non-negotiable" behavior. If you have a toddler who won't do x, it doesn't matter how much bystanders or your parents say, "Well that's simply not acceptable." It doesn't matter if it's "acceptable" or not—because if you have a kid like that, you know you can't control another human in that way.

So this isn't a new revelation. But recently we've realized that my 10yo has a PDA profile (pathological demand avoidance/pervasive drive for autonomy—if you want to learn about it, look up Harry Thompson on the socials), which means that perceived demands cause him to enter a place of fight/flight response. I can't tell you the number of times he had a rage meltdown, injured me, trashed his room, etc. Because of this, we figured out (trial and error) how to interact with him starting when he was a toddler, so again, nothing earth-shattering with this new diagnosis, just an actual framework to understand him that finally encompasses all his (often confusing) quirks. What's interesting about pda is that the solution is basically to treat the person...like a person. It's a neurotype that INSISTS on being treated as capable and autonomous (what most people would think of as "treated like an adult", as if kids aren't entitled to autonomy).

What's really incredible is how, when this is all understood and supported, it doesn't have to cause him a lot of problems in day-to-day life. He's been supported and taken seriously for years, and now that he has words for it, he's even more comfortable in his skin.

Last week, we were both not in top form one day and I asked him to put his backpack away. (A demand! How dare I?! After he'd had a hard day of demands at school?!) and he literally threw it across the room, said something mean, and stormed off. (At which point I realized belatedly what was going on and dropped the issue completely so he could ctfd.)

Yesterday, in contrast: he had a bad day at school and I listened, then let him go and bury himself in YouTube for awhile. As I was starting to make dinner, he came and asked if he could help because he was hungry. (Note: no demand was made of him!) I said sure and we cooked together. When the food was ready, he said, "Can I eat alone today? I had a hard day."

Now, my upbringing (and my partner's) was one of The Sacred Family Dinner. The family eats together always. Why? Because that's what we do. No one would ever dare question it! This assumption that family dinner is inviolable lives deep in my soul. If I had said this to my parents (and I wouldn't have—it would've been unthinkable), I would've been dismissed out of hand. They would've scoffed and said something about how I had to do what our family does.

But because I'm not new here, I pushed all that away and said, "Alright. Thanks for helping me cook."

And he goes, "No problem. Thanks for understanding."

🥲😊😭🥲

Beautiful things happen when you let go of limiting neurotypical heteropatriarchal culturoinstitutional norms and narratives. Doing that requires leaps of faith. Leap after leap of faith. Scary leaps that challenge all your insecurities. Leaping every time your brain or another person says, "Well how will they ever learn to do x if you—” No. Leap.

It's worth the leaps.

[autball]

Contrary to popular belief, “hating praise” is not just a PDA thing. There are many reasons it could not sit right with someone.

It’s also assumed that people like this just hate all praise, but that’s not true either. What we hate is feeling manipulated, or lied to, or monitored, etc.

I mean, do you realize how much adults are encouraged to use praise to manipulate kids and people in care?? We’re supposed to use it to get more of the behaviors we like, and to promote a “growth mindset,” and to encourage them to stick with activities we think are good for them, and so on and so on.

That’s so much trying to get people to do what we want them to do! Is it really any wonder that praise could end up feeling disingenuous and manipulative after a while? How often are we just genuinely appreciating something they’ve done or who they are as a person, and how are they to know the difference?

If you have someone in your life who reacts badly when you praise them, maybe take a look at your motivations or the way you’re doing it instead of assuming they are the one with the problem. Maybe there’s something like low self esteem or rejection sensitivity skewing their perception, or maybe their perception is just fine and they’re picking up on your ulterior motives (and they don’t appreciate it!).

And please know that you don’t have to withdraw all praise. Everyone wants to feel like they’re good at *something* and that people like what they do. Just wait until it’s wanted, and make sure it’s genuine, with no expectations attached.

[healingheartdogs]

One thing about PDA (pathological demand avoidance/persistent drive for autonomy) is that living is a demand. All of the necessities for maintaining life are demands. Staying alive is literally a series of neverending demands. I can never stop eating or I will die. I can never stop drinking fluids or I will die. I can never stop maintaining a basic level of hygiene because it's necessary for health and comfort. I can never stop cleaning in order to keep my spaces functional enough to meet all the other demands that keep me alive. Regardless of how burnt out or tired I am, regardless of how badly my PDA is triggered, regardless of how fatigued my body is or how bad my executive dysfunction is on top of all that PDA, I still have to meet those demands to live. Just staying alive when your brain is like this is constantly being triggered and burnt out by the basic demands of life.

[ditzydoodiary]

trying so hard to not have meltdown right now

my mum KNOWS direct instructions stress me out. she knows about my PDA. so why does she get so surprised when i cant do something that she asks me to. so angry and upset. want to cry and stamp feet but cant

growing up undiagnosed PDA autism traumatised me. it traumatised me so badly. being treated as if im bad kid cuz i can't follow expectations, demands, instructions etc. not a bad kid. im really not. why cant i just do this like every other kid. taking a shower shouldn't be so hard