#people really trying to push real life morals to the extremes talking about characters in the show | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

transthadymacdermot · 9 months

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Please tell me more about your OCs, Fredrick, Sarah and Annie?

Sure!!! They are main characters in the vague sequel story to my wip red & riotous light that I'm writing + they are tenant farmers on a vaguely located estate owned by a fictious marquess somewhere in co. antrim, ireland, in the mid 1790s. Their family situation is best explained I think by this diagram but to shorten it, Frederick and Annie are the nephew + niece of Sarah's toxic boyfriend Jem, who she basically adopted after she moved in with them. She also has 2 more younger kids but she sent them off to help F&A's father on his search for work in scotland, so they don't factor in to the actual story much. I will go through them in depth one at a time.

Frederick

Frederick is 11 and he's like. one of those annoying street urchin artful dodger type characters but in an almost wholly rural setting. He's def. got what would be today recognised as undiagnosed ADHD and he's working through a lot of complicated feelings surrounding his relationship with his mother (which swings between loving and being like a cage fight like a pendulum) as well as his place in the world and what he's meant to be doing about the incredible violence he's witnessing around him daily. In some ways this manifests as him having grown up far too quickly -- he's already an active member of 1 of the most feared gangs in his area and him stabbing a man without batting an eye is what starts the plot -- in other ways it's him acting at all times like he knows exactly what's up and like he's 100% in control even when he's obviously just a helpless kid.

Some facts about Frederick:

When he grows up he wants to join the army, ideally as an officer + ideally in the cavalry

He is a narrative foil to another character, Seamy, who I went into detail on here

He slowly develops the ability to see snatches of the future in his dreams, although he doesn't typically tell anyone about these dreams so for now it's more of a mounting dread situation than something with any massive effect on his life.

Sarah

Probably the main facet of Sarah's character, imo, is that she really does not give a shit. About anything. She has been utterly miserable due to the fact that she and Jem both despise each other (but she won't leave cos she wants the children to grow up with some kind of father figure + is too exhausted to find anything or anyone else. not answering questions on whether or not this was inspired by anything I have witnessed in real life at this time) for so long that she crossed the threshold of not caring about people's opinions/consequences/moral implications wrt any of her actions years ago. This typically does not end well for people who anger her, especially when taken with the fact that she spent so long blaming herself for things other people did to her that she swung to the opposite extreme + the fact that she is living most of her life now in survival mode, and therefore no longer regards a single one of her actions as her own fault. It does not take much to push Sarah over the edge. If she decides you are jeopardising her survival AND aren't useful for anything otherwise that's you done with this mortal coil and good luck trying to talk her out of it.

Some facts about Sarah:

She is fluent in english, irish, and latin + she can read + write in all 3, and though her family members only know english she often says simple commands and asks simple questions in latin to her children. Her favourite book (a copy of which is owned by a local schoolmaster) is ovid's metamorphosis

She is also a narrative foil to another character called Lady Durham, who I've not made a big post on yet

For many years she sang all the psalms at the local chapel (before she got into a fight with the priest and stopped going)

Annie

Ah, Annie. She is a 12 year old eldest daughter and she has all of the complications that implies. Tbh, she's probably the most capable in her family, or she would be if she didn't spend most of her time wandering around climbing trees and pretending to be a wolf or whatever. She and her mother tend to both blame each other for every single thing that is wrong with the world + fight constantly about everything, but ironically they're very similar -- Annie, too, is very independent and a loner by choice, though she doesn't necessarily dislike company if it's someone who can keep up with her, and she has more than a little of Sarah's ruthless streak in her. Her head is often in the clouds but she isn't incapable of being more practical, nor is she not razor-sharp, she just chooses to get a little whimsical with it. If the rest of the world wants to know what she's talking about they should simply come up into the clouds with her.

Some facts about Annie:

She has a tortoiseshell kitten called Chicken which Sarah gets her early in the story to patch things up after a fight

There is some kind of bizarre cosmic horror monster following her around and doing whatever she tells it to. This manifests as the ability to kill people basically with her mind, though the trade-off is that Annie spreads plague and misfortune wherever she goes as a result of its malign influence leaking out. More lore posts on this coming soon 👍

She enjoys going to see plays &c a lot. Her current favourite is shakespeare's titus andronicus, which she saw when a troupe of players came to perform it for the Marquess (he was so scandalised he nearly perished on the spot) and the local innkeeper Lazarus managed to entice them into doing a cheap showing of it at his inn

#there is more Lore but this is a good introduction to them imo!!!#c: sarah connolly #c: frederick craig #c: annie craig #wip: 8gog #jory.txt

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girlyliondragon · 1 year

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Real talk the thing about making extremely complicated/complex and flawed characters (especially those greatly based off yourself to the point they're your self-created comfort character) that you've grown to be extremely proud of thinking of their stories, is that you also know that there are people out there that will absolutely villainize the fuck out of them or try to 'reason' that they are completely irredeemable even in instances where they have no control over their life and act accordingly or even are pushed into situations where they didn't want to be to begin with or are even trying to be better than they were before even when they have gone through and still go through moments of relapse like any troubled character would in an attempt to make them feel real and it actually really fucking scares me.

I can't give details, but it's like. It's obvious they, the character, aren't a good person, not as a whole anyways and aren't meant to be, in fact said character sees themselves as the worst to exist because in their eyes they deserve every bit of punishment after everything they've done because they are forced to be stuck in the past and mask themselves unhealthily due to repeated mistakes and not wanting to do them again despite making achievements to move on and be happy and despite some telling them that they're doing a good job despite everything and that they deserve to be happy and meaning it rather than trying to placate them, it's obviously up for people to decide their own perception OF that OC from what they read of their story bits to decide whether they like the character based on what they read of them or not, because flaws and shit like this is very compelling to many, myself included.

But at the same time I'm super nervous about the idea of expanding on said character and showing their maladaptive coping mechanisms and behaviors and bad moments alongside their good moments because a lot of people on the internet, especially the very loud ones have no fucking concept of the varying shades of grey morality in the slightest. Even in cases where they are in fandoms with characters with many different forms of grey morality, like it terrifies me that someone could potentially misread everything and ruin my desire to make this OC I'm vagueing about want to not only move on and be better, even if they have to start from the bottom again sometimes, but redeem and even forgive themselves in their own eyes in the process and start anew, just because people have a black/white mentality that they force onto at the expense of others doing so. It really ruins character exploration and growth.

#Wow RANT Alert #''Emerald what stemmed this?'' I was making an extremely complex and complicated sona's story (Not Sapphire's)#which is something I haven't tried to do ever since I abandoned Emi as one given the bleh I had to go through making hers work #due to outside forces making me feel like shit and like it's not a good idea #so I've finally got the balls to do it again. And even intend on being open about it or at least trying to be #but I'm scared to because people don't know how to read between the lines of what makes a good or bad character #they just automatically assume and don't try to dig or even try to understand that the character's grey for a reason #and that its their actions in the now that define whether they are capable of doing better. Not the past ones #I definitely don't want another fandom sona's story loosely based off of myself to be ruined because of bullshit like that.#since it's now turned into a story of self forgiveness and catharsis for myself which is why I'm so banged up about this #But man does it feel like a huge ticking timebomb #which is a shame because I've literally NOT done complex characters in for fucking ever since last year #I want mess and imperfection and to feel like I did a good job making said character's personal growth and backfires feel real #not feel bad for making them extremely messy and imperfect to begin with just because others don't like it #which is ironic because this character started as my ''ideal'' self. Or about as ''ideal'' as they can be in that world #only to not be and instead be more relatable to me as time went on brainstorming them #I want a character who's life closely mirrors mine. only they actually get their happy ending and can keep going with it.

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james-fun-in-the-sunderland · 1 year

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3, 17, 22, 23, 30, 34, 48. for the sampson. the sample .

the samosa.... yayyy yayy thank u zee for giving me qs ^-^ ❤

obligatory link back to the aske game !

3. Do they enjoy cooking?

I dont think so ! though he CAN cook and do it pretty well, he usually left it to his wife and never liked doing it. after all it takes alot of set up and time and its a MESS.... so in current times he like 90% of the time gets pizza or microwaves smth...... or bums some food off of his job/callahan >:)

17. How easily would they be convinced to do something that goes against their morals?

i instantly wanted to say EXTREMELY easilly but it would honestly depend? yea thats rite hes not THAT shitty of a guy.. he mostly suffers from the bystander effect and is ... selfish... plus has an extreme fear of death so put him on the spot and he would do anything to keep himself from getting killed even if that meant hurting someone else. BUT i think he wouldnt be AS selfish if his wife, kid, or someone else he loved was involved... then he would be more considerate... but otherwise? no morals, just keeping himself safe

(the rest r under the read more ^-^ )

22. Would they ever betray someone for money?

not really... while i do think hes selfish i dont think he would do something that extreme for something as non important as money, i think that also what helps him to ... not really care to do such a thang for money is that he can just . like . scam people or something... like he has a ton of money saved up AND this man 100% would install a bitcoin miner on someones pc if left alone with it.... like he doesnt see money as more important than someones life... or something equally as important to him

23. How would they want to die?

ohhh interesting q .... see my easy answer is he just shrimply would not want to <3 but if he were like forced to have to think about it... i think he would want to die surrounded by friends... not alone... it doesnt really matter how at that point, whether its painful or not, he just would want at least one other person there with him

30. If they had the chance to be famous would they take it? If they are famous would they rather they weren't?

i think he would like to be like... bill gates famous... not like star famous tho, like famous where everyone knows ur name and u get the benefits from that but not so famous that u have paparazzi at ur house and everyone is always trying to talk to u bc they know u from tv and everything... he doesnt want things to get out of control or for his safety and privacy to be threatened!

34. How well do they deal with grief?

he doesnt <3 i feel like ive said this about another character but its Different. i think i said it about vicky maybe? which in that case they are different 4 reals... bc vicky like actively pushes his grief away or just like is able to give in to self destruction, meanwhile samson tries to run away from his grief or replace it with things he likes... hes NOT a self destructive guy! he may not take care of himself AS WELL but thats only with things that are more inconvenient and dont make him feel good! which is his like .. 1st priority... he also tries to cheer up others if theyre going thru smth rather than allow them to like fully feel their emotions, u kno? which works for people who are like him but probably is like ... dude -_- for other people

48. How likely are they to go on a quest for revenge?

not very likely... unless he knows 100% that it would mean something then hes not one to just run off and get himself hurt for no reason. mostly if someone Gets him to where a person would want revenge then he would just like... not.. SEE that is unless it was like ... something petty like he would absolutely go on a silly crusade of pranks against someone else who pranked him, THATS easy and in fact the petty-er the better for samson

#OC: Samson Hendry #rev lore #teeheeee thank u again this was fun u always choose good interesting qs my love <3

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thattimdrakeguy · 2 years

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I blocked a guy who gave me an ask about why I like Tim ‘cause apparently he’s a dirty sexist, racist, rich, white boy.

Since well, I’m never going to have an interesting conversation with them, ‘cause I’ve never once seen anybody say that, and continue onto their other posts and see anything to make me think they’d believe that if they weren’t over-invested in their interests.

But I’ve been seeing that idea thrown around a lot lately.

Just to say quickly, because it’s not really the Tim part of this I’m concerned about, I’ve yet to see any proof of Tim being sexist, that’s actually proof of him being sexist. It’s done nothing but show me people don’t know what sexism is, or at the very least can’t understand what the term ‘context’ means. Because they’ll blatantly ignore that and throw in their own version of it. Which, I’m gonna be blunt, I think if you’re bothering to do that over somebody that doesn’t exist. I think you’re an idiot. As harsh as it sounds I doubt anyone could give me a reason why I shouldn’t think trying to prove a fictional character, that’s obviously never intended to be portrayed as a sexist is sexist, isn’t a massively stupid thing to do.

And all I can say for the part that bugs me more is: Rule of thumb, if someone makes everything about race without a reason that can be explained as having some thought and reason put into it beyond bad faith, you probably shouldn’t take it too seriously, because social media has become increasingly more obviously filled with people looking for attention rather than actually saying anything worth saying.

There are a lot of intelligent people out there on social media giving good lessons about subtle racism, and things that people do that they don’t realize can actually come off as condescending to minorities or other things. And they are extremely good reads can help you better yourself. Or even larger issues that you may have never thought about, and how it pushes down on minorities. Sometimes just representations in fiction.

Because talking about race, and gender, and sexuality isn’t my problem with it. There’s still a lot to learn. It’s people who use it because they’re petty, and want to convince themselves their doing the morally correct thing by talking about it. Incredibly the number of likes on a post doesn’t mean jackshit. And here I was thinking more people have learned this by now.

And as shocking as it may be, I’ve never seen any of these people who have brought up intelligent matters with thoughtfulness and reason, act like reading way too much into fiction because a popular blog did it, is any actual act of activism. Or that simply being white means something. I’ve actually seen them think that stuff is ridiculous and has a negative impact on the actual real life matters.

I’m sorry but if you genuinely think that a character is as well-liked as they are because they’re white, you live in a delusion. I’m not claiming no one ever likes a character ‘cause they’re white, because look, there’s a lot of bad people out there. But to act like everyone that likes a character, that conveniently is in constant comparison to your fav, is racist, or at least a large enough group of people to say it, is simply idiocy. You’re not doing anything but making things look like a joke to anyone that isn’t desperate for their virtue card.

There is a lot of things that deserved to be talked about. Playing stupid over petty arguments doesn’t deserve the time of day.

And pro-tip if someone in the fandom constantly undermines everything one character does to lessen it’s impact, but exaggerating everything another does to overblow another's impact, they likely are only using something as a tool to just fulfill what’s in their head. Often enough with the intention of just wanting a lot of attention, even if they’re desperately trying to make it come off like it’s more than that. You aren’t likely to learn anything real from them.

If you can’t process an actually well-thought out reason why someone is saying such a thing, there are very good odds it’s not well-thought out.

Why do you think fandom’s get laughed at everywhere outside of them? Or even sometimes inside of them? It’s because they’re ridiculous, and you have to take everything with copious amounts of salt. You’ll legitimately become less intelligent otherwise. And I’m not saying this because “Oh I like Timmy”, ‘cause I’ve seen stuff said that’s even stupider than this specific argument I got.

There’s a lot of serious topics I wish people would talk about more out there, but won’t get taken seriously anymore because so many people overuse it for things that don’t actually concern it. It’s like crying wolf, but for a whole entire group of people, that just want to be equal without some dickhead making a fool of themselves.

If you think saying anything negative at all towards a woman is sexist, or you have to say “Should’ve talked about in the comics more” (Since that likely means, as shitty as the writing was. Whatever you’re getting out of it likely isn’t there since these characters are supposed to be heroes), or any negative emotion towards a POC character regardless of context is a racist. You’re not exactly supporting those communities. You’re fucking babying them. You’re making a joke out of it that is in no way helping them. You are severely undermining them the more and more it happens.

When an actual, honest to God moment of sexism or racism comes along. It is time to talk about it.

Acting like everything about a character (Since I don’t see these people ever worrying about anyone that’s a real human) is their minority status, when it clearly isn’t, is a roundabout way of ending up being sexist, or racist, or whatever bigotry. Because you’re just not treating them like people ever. It’s patronizing.

Like I’m not even talking about the Tim thing anymore. I just know that I actively see people of color, or different genders, in some contexts and situations members of the LBGT+ community actively express annoyance and disgust about these things, but no one cares because they want their virtuous card. It’s about doing these things that in reality are making people treat real life issues a little less seriously every time.

Yet, boy oh boy, random people have to take serious issues and make it about their fictional fav.

And I feel like I talk about it a lot. Usually not in paragraphs. But the more I see people doing it, and genuine people talking against it, that these people doing it think they’re defending, it gets more depressing.

Supporting minorities isn’t fetishizing them or infantilizing their own issues, or generally obsessing over whatever it is that makes them a minority.

Supporting them is treating them like equals and learning to recognize the warning sign of what to say and what not to say becomes an ignorant moment comes along, and supporting them when a genuine bigot comes along. Not sounding the alarm over nothing because you’re crying over a drawing with words on it.

I appreciate authentic people, but people who have a bad habit of sounding this alarm over nothing, never feel authentic.

Real issues deserve to be treated with respect. Not as a buzzword.

#And something I think bothers me a lot as well #talking about this #Is that I had to tie it into a fictional character #Cause I have no idea what other people think but I think that actively devalues anything I have to say #But straight up take a second to think about because as stupid as it is to talk about it in this context #This is the context I keep seeing this stuff in

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utilitycaster · 3 years

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Hello I would love to hear you thoughts on Caduceus and his arc. Clay is the only character who’s story has made me cry genuine tears (when he got his fam back) and I feel like his nuances and the changes he goes through tend to be overlooked a lot, exactly because of how quietly they happen.

Of course!

So as Taliesin said a few times and as I've pointed out, Caduceus (and Molly for that matter) was intended to be a static character. Obviously this is an impossibility in D&D because things happen and you cannot control it and moreover I am sure Taliesin is aware of this, so it's more that the intent was to have a character who did not feel they needed to change, possibly in contrast with Percy, who absolutely felt he needed to change. A self-proclaimed static character still needs a reason to be static: Molly's philosophy was, as notably stated on talks, "Life's short...do something to a bagel" and more generally the lack of need for change came from this sort of aimless and benevolent-when-convenient hedonism. Caduceus, on the other hand, is secure in his purpose. He has known who he was supposed to be for his whole life, and he embraces it, and sees no reason to change, until he absolutely has to, and even then he is deeply reluctant.

Caduceus is about what happens when your comfort zone and guiding principles themselves fold in on each other and are like "hey. expand us or else."

I think a lot of people have rightfully noted that from his appearance through the Xhorhas arc, Caduceus sees the rest of the Nein as mourners, and that's within his comfort zone. Sure, there are some moral quandaries at the docks of Nicodranas, but he's able to get through that (in part because he's in the Mighty Nein but isn't personally stealing the ship, in part because of Jester's talk with him). I think it's also worth noting that while Caduceus is extremely insightful he is not superhuman (super firbolgian?) in that regard; it is the insight borne of being someone who is there for mourners and so he has a good eye for emotions, less so for motivations, and a lot of the Nein's motivations early on escape him.

The first wave of big changes happen in Bazzoxan and the immediate aftermath. First, Fjord confides in him and asks for advice - and Caduceus is used to giving advice but I'm not sure he's ever had to offer religious practice advice, as the people he would have interacted with would have either been the sketchy people of Shady Creek Run, or else people already faithful enough to seek the Blooming Grove. And second, the party finds itself directionless for a time; there is no pressing business or better ideas and he cannot hide his own mission behind someone else's, so he voices his recommendation that they come clean to the Bright Queen, and then they go to the kiln.

Caduceus's relationship with Fjord I think is useful to bring up in a sense of contrast, in that Caduceus is incredibly good at helping Fjord through a crisis, because Caduceus is trained for crisis - but it gets much hazier once Fjord is out of said crisis and as it turns out has a very different relationship with the Wildmother, and I think this comes up to an extent when they talk in Rexxentrum. I think Caduceus, for all his talk of nature's violence, struggles with the concept of nature being malevolent or having goals - it just is. Whereas Fjord is much more comfortable with the idea of nature perhaps being a force that is itself a threat, or deceptive, and more generally with the idea of nature as somewhat unknowable and full of mysteries. I don't think Caduceus's personal view of nature ever changes, but I think his ability to process that he doesn't have the answers even in the areas within his comfort zone improves, and this is something of an inflection point with regards to him acknowledging new perspectives on his own comfort zone.

It's also a little before this that we see Caduceus reveal vulnerability for the first real time since his panic attack on the boat right after they stole it, when he confides in The Gentleman. Some of this is a calculated social move, to be fair, but it's a notable step forward.

That said it takes a while to change and he spends a few days post-Rexxentrum doing anything to avoid facing his own mission. It's worth noting that Caduceus is a cleric of the same level as Jester, and could have cast sending before the party ever met up with him, and he never did. So they go to Beau's father and Isharnai first, putting it off as long as he can.

Caduceus's scenes with his family sort of snap all of the above into place, in that his parents are glad he's spent some time in the world and are completely accepting of his desire to keep going for a time. I'm honestly not sure, myself, why he does this because I don't think it's metagaming (ie, it's not Taliesin going 'I can't make a third character') but I think there are multiple valid interpretations. Caduceus's role, as the one who stays at home, is ultimately a self-imposed one.

He sort of mulls on that for the next while, sort of uncomfortably internalizing differing perspectives on deities with the Artagan reveal/Rumblecusp and additionally processing his own deeper relationship with the Wildmother, with multiple visions, and maybe even the fact that nature constantly wants to murder him.

Then we get to Eiselcross and that's when it all hits. I think as soon as he sees the corrupted trees he gets a sense of the scale, that this corruption is not just unnatural but it is ancient and has been a threat for a long time and that staving it off at the Blooming Grove is not getting at the unknown, underlying source (which he probably knew deep down, but as discussed above he does not really love to admit those things to himself). And he realizes that he might need to be the one not just to commit but to initiate violence, as the person with no emotional ties to Lucien via Molly; he finds himself bending his own moral rules for the greater good more; and I think this is when he realizes either that he needs to change, or perhaps that he's been changing quietly and slowly the whole time and has just been terrified to admit it.

The last night at the Blooming Grove before the final push into Aeor is another good look at Caduceus, who, like a number of characters in this campaign, is so very much defined by his ongoing and important familial relationships. We get a brief but heartbreaking glimpse at the state he was in prior to the Nein showing up in the garden, and how he was trying to induce something, anything, to give him direction because he didn't trust himself to leave without that assurance; and his admission, finally, to someone else of that change, that he never wanted to be the person to go on an adventure, that he still has very mixed feelings about it, but that this is his responsibility. And it's that which allows him to confidently say, on Cognouza, that it's time to end this shit.

In short (Clue the Movie voice: too late) Caduceus's arc is someone who has always believed in his sacred, literally god-given responsibility into which he was born, and struggles against the fact that said sacred responsibility ends up being quite different than what he expected but ultimately is able to accept it, and his reward is that he can return to the responsibility he initially embraced, having grown in ways he could not have otherwise.

Now, I think part of why Caduceus's arc gets overlooked is twofold. The first reason is that background arcs are, well, background, and it's quiet and subtle and highly internal and hard to turn into big dramatic moments, which, as a person whose favorite C1 character is Vex, I understand, but also those arcs are the best.

The second, and this is going to sound even more "I appreciate the muppets on a much deeper level than you" than the first, is that I feel a lot of people who considered Caduceus their favorite character did lean into the myth of "superfirbolgian" insight when the fact always was that Caduceus had no interest in the political; did not make Trent quake in his wizard robes in the slightest as was confirmed in the finale; and ultimately wanted most of all to return to his home.

It's a very true and very unique choice and if I may [note: I am writing this so I do what I want] I think a lot of people did not understand Caduceus in that they felt his ending was unhappy for him, and some of this is that people had really stupid takes on the party splitting at the end. I have mixed feelings on the true universality of the Campbellian Monomyth and even more mixed feelings on everyone giving Dan Harmon tons of credit for merely rephrasing it but despite that, Caduceus's arc fits it perfectly (and very literally): comfort zone -> need arises -> unfamiliar situation -> adaptation -> gets what he wants -> at a price -> returns to comfort -> having changed.

#caduceus clay #critical role #long post #me writing this: oh actually c2 was about self-imposed expectations and the various ways they are removed #me writing that previous tag: I should write about that but not tonight i need to like. do things before bed.#also me writing this: should also write about the ongoing familial relationships because i think that's related

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vrishchikawrites · 3 years

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LAN XICHEN AND JIANG CHENG:

JC stans want Jiang Cheng to end up with Lan Xichen because he is the First Jade of Lan, while Lan Wangji, who is Wei Wuxian’s husband, is only Second. For once in his miserable life, Jiang Cheng will get the better end of the deal than Wei Wuxian, right? But the thing is, as far as the narrative goes, nobody can beat Hanguang-jun other than Wei Wuxian- his own brother included. We are repeatedly given evidence that Lan Wangji is stronger than Lan Xichen, is more of an expert at the guqin than Lan Xichen, is more skilled in Clan Techniques than Lan Xichen, is more righteous than Lan Xichen, etc. etc. Nobody but Lan Wangji could have survived the 33 whip lashes, fought 33 well-trained Elders while also protecting his dying beloved, undertaken dangerous night hunts in desolate areas with no expectations of repayment, and end up Hanguang-jun. When one hears of the name ‘Lan’, one thinks of Hanguang-jun, Lan Wangji, the Second Jade of Lan, and then, Lan Xichen, his brother, the First Jade. Lan Wangji did have more freedom than Lan Xichen, but it is not that much more, and thus we can attribute his values and his morals as his own. Where does Xicheng come in? We know that Jiang Cheng does not care about pesky qualities such as honour or integrity, to say nothing of his homophobic tendencies, but if he were to become a “disgusting” cut-sleeve, he would not settle for anything but the best, which Lan Xichen is not. Jiang Cheng is also extremely jealous and vindicative, easy to offend and anger, and can absolutely never handle being below anyone. Lan Xichen might not be as talented as his brother, but he is still leagues better than the “Wielder Of His Own Damn Sword”, Jiang-Zhongzu. They would not mesh well together. But we know all this. Let us talk about Lan Xichen. Rulers should be good to their people and their primary strength should lie in being able to detach themselves from their personal feelings in kingdom-related matters and take a professional approach. In the book’s context, a Sect Leader should be cold and practical in the matters involving the Sect. Jiang Fengmian fails to do this with his wife, and ends up getting most of his Sect killed due to his cowardice. Lan Xichen does this with A-Yao. As Sect Leader, Lan Xichen’s warmth causes less diplomatic incidents, since he is good with pacifying and mollifying prickly Sect Heads, but he can be easily swayed by weakness, real or feigned, and such beliefs work to his disadvantage. One more thing I would like to point out is that Lan Wangji, after losing the love of his life and being whipped 33 times (with a Spiritual Weapon) for treason, only remained in seclusion long enough to heal his body. If he could function in such a painful situation, all the while caring for an orphaned child and watching his brother happily interact with the person most responsible for, why could not Lan Xichen? He wasn’t even physically impaired! Oh boo-hoo, my most trusted friend of 20 years betrayed me and killed my Sworn Brother? Yes! Yes, he did, and it was a most traumatising thing to do, but he did not do it without your own help and encouragement! It is not Lan Xichen’s fault for being taken by a Master Manipulator, of course, but it is his fault for being passive and taking the easy way out 2/3 times in order not to upset his Sworn Brothers and the rest of the elitist Cultivation World! There are metas that state that once Lan Xichen is given confirmation of ill-will and misdeeds, he does not hesitate to choose the path of righteousness and conviction, but it is the time that he takes to obtain such confirmations is what irks me. He makes no moves of his own, does not go out of his way to investigate events he himself was suspicious about until his brother encourages (read: forces by showing unignorable evidence) him to, and spends most of his time after the Siege sitting on his hands (other than rebuilding his Sect, I will give him that) and entertaining A-Yao! *Sigh* This is quite a cruel take on him, and if we view him through the same lens we do

our favourite characters many of his faults will fizzle out quickly, but I just think he should not be let off as scott-free as he currently is being let. If I have misunderstood something, or mentioned anything wrong, please do not hesitate to correct me! It will help with my understanding of his character and help me write better fics.

Dee - This was a submission not an ask - my reply under the cut off

I try not to say much about LXC and maintain a neutral POV on him because he is, from what I read in the novel, a good character. Not perfect and certainly not as wise as he's often made out to be, but good. Honestly, to me he comes across as someone who is somewhat naive, unaware of his own prejudices, but willing to pursue the truth when prompted. He also seems to be a bit stubborn and is very confident in his own judgment. I believe all of that can be attributed to the fact that he's a Sect Heir and a Sect Leader later. He needs to have that solid belief in his judgment to lead.

To me, LWJ and LXC present interesting parallels. Both loved (platonic in LXC's case, love is love) people from lower social classes, both were confronted with somewhat unsavory characteristics. The parallels are very striking, tbh.

LWJ loved a morally strong man - LXC loved a morally weak one.

LWJ's love for WWX enlightened him - LXC's love for JGY blinded him.

LWJ took WWX to task on every mistake - LXC covered up or made excuses for JGY's red flags.

WWX's taught LWJ to challenge and question everything - JGY taught LXC to trust blindly and accept excuses.

LWJ learned to fight, even if it meant disrupting peace - LXC learned to look the other way in order to maintain peace.

It wasn't until LXC was pushed by LWJ and WWX that he took action but he still took action. Arguably, it would've been just as painful for LXC to suspect JGY as it would've been LWJ to suspect WWX. When you love someone and their character sinks to the gutter, the hurt is immeasurable. It is nearly the worst betrayal you can face. I don't blame LXC for wanting to avoid it.

Also, LXC had a lot of reasons to act the way he did. As readers, we have the benefit of hindsight but when people are confronted with difficult situations and insufficient information, they act differently. So yeah, it is a bit dissatisfying that he doesn't get called out for some of this foolishness, but honestly, it is a minor thing.

As for LXC and JC, I agree. It is definitely a way to one-up WWX with the 'better' Lan. We don't really know how skilled LXC is and how he can stand against LWJ or WWX. I'm rather certain he's stronger than JC at any rate. JGY was able to fight and defeat JC but he had to trick both LXC and LWJ into sealing their powers. His cultivation is strong. He's just not as sharp and intelligent as LWJ and WWX are but they're exceptional.

#submission #anti jiang cheng

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theravennest · 3 years

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Let’s Talk About Shang Chi...

I just got back from seeing Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings. I had a great time with it. Just a lovely experience.

The fights were dope. The music was rocking. The actors’ performances really sold me on everything. I loved all the Xianxia elements. Y’all know fantasy worlds are my JAM!

But it was the characters that really drew me in. Every one of them were pitch perfect for me. The final act got a little jumbled, imo, but the characters and their dynamics were so good that it was enough for me to completely forgive and overlook the somewhat messy final battle.

The story had a lot of heart. It was so personal and so anchored in real emotions. I highkey fell in love with all the main characters. I love their journeys and their complex and grounded relationships with each other. I really liked the movie’s examination of grief, loss, and pain and the lengths people will go to in the wake of being overwhelmed by those feelings.

Let’s dig into it! This is gonna be a whole discombobulated mess, I just know it. lmao

***Spoilers below the cut!***

I really felt for Shang Chi, Xialing, and Wenwu struggling to figure out how to be a family again after they were all broken in different ways by the loss of Mama Ying Li. And each one of them trying in their own way to heal from it, some to extremely destructive degrees.

How Wenwu treated his kids after being consumed by grief and violence was so utterly messed up but in two completely different ways.

He treated Xialing like she was anathema, like she was literally nothing. Even when they were older and she had grown into an adult, he barely spoke to her in the entirety of the movie, could hardly even look at her. Partially because she looked like her mom and he retreated utterly from the pain of that, and partially because he constantly underestimated her in favor of her brother. This, of course, seeded the resentful tension between Xialing and Shang Chi from the start.

I’m a real sucker for sibling dynamics, as you all know. They’re my favorite types of family-oriented stories. (Side note, I really love the way the MCU has dedicated several stories to sibling relationships. It’s like my favorite thing in the MCU as a whole.)

I completely ate up the harsh and tricky relationship between Xialing and Shang Chi. Shang Chi completely let her down when they were kids, for her POV. (Not really his fault, he was a scared and traumatized 15 year old. Totally understandable.) But there is something to be said about the fact that she was also a child. A child dealing with her mom’s death too AND her dad’s aloofness. Then she was utterly abandoned by her brother. It’s no wonder she never quite forgives him, even though they mostly team up in the movie. They still have a lot to work out between them.

I really loved that she took on leadership of the Ten Rings at the end. The moment Shang Chi said she was “dismantling” their dad’s empire, I knew what was up. Though, the softy in me does hope that eventually they can find true reconciliation between them. I’m excited to see what we’ll see from her in future movies as a potential enemy of Shang Chi. It’ll be really interesting to see how Shang Chi tackles having to go up against his little sister.

And Shang Chi!!! OMG! Let’s talk Shang Chi and Wenwu now. When Wenwu drop kicked him into the ground and started the blame game for Mama Ying Li’s death like bro!!! I was so heated. He was 7 years old. A whole baby! She died because your thousand years of violence and conquering shit finally came home to roost.

But that one line when Wenwu said Shang Chi’s 7 year old self “just stood there and watched” while his mom was killed actually revealed so much about Wenwu’s character. (The cutting way Tony Leung, a literal legend, delivered that was masterful, btw.)

I actually think that it was the first time Wenwu has ever verbalized that he blamed Shang Chi for Ying Li’s death. Like maybe he’s always felt that way and all this time he was partially punishing Shang Chi for what he thinks of as a failure to protect or help the woman who meant so much to them.

Like, yes, he was training Shang Chi to take his place with him in the Ten Rings as an assassin but maybe he also wanted Shang Chi to kill his mom’s murderer as penance for letting her die in the first place.

Of course, it’s clear to see that Wenwu was absolutely shifting his own feelings of conflicting guilt onto his kids. Guilt that his past as a warlord is what got her killed. But also guilt that he put down the Ten Rings in the first place when if he had stayed a warlord, this never would have happened. But also the bone deep knowledge that if he hadn’t put down the Rings, Ying Li might never have stayed with him and loved him in the first place.

When Shang Chi threw it back at him that Ying Li probably wouldn’t love the person Wenwu had returned to, Wenwu looked so shook up. Phew! Perfect emoting from Tony Leung in that moment.

Honestly, Wenwu was having a very tragic and confusing time of it in this movie. Which is probably how that creature from beyond was able to find a crack in his psychic defenses and lure him to the gate. I had a lot of empathy for him even though I disagree so much with what he did to his kids, emotionally.

I really respect the fact that the movie never lost that sense of compassion for all of their feelings including Wenwu. I also respect that the movie really gave them space to grieve not just the loss of Ying Li but also the resulting dissolution of their happy family.

It’s just too bad that Wenwu’s grief made him push his kids away instead of pulling them closer. He completely emotionally abandoned them. A thousand years of power and supremacy yet he was broken because he never in that time fully learned how to process his emotions in a healthier way and his kids paid the price. They could’ve leaned on each other and on the love they found with Ying Li to help them get through but alas that’s the tragedy of the movie.

I really wanted somehow for Shang Chi to make it through to his dad before he went too far to come back again. I genuinely did not want to see Wenwu die at the end. I wanted him to live and see Shang Chi’s changing dynamic with his father continue. I wanted to see him finally acknowledge his daughter as his true heir and see her accomplishments (dark though they will likely become considering the “softer” version of her is the one that ran an illegal fight club in Macao lmao).

Though I am happy Shang Chi got through to him enough at the end for Wenwu to save Shang Chi’s life, willingly pass the rings onto his son, and somewhat accept his own death after a thousand years of life. That was such a poignant moment between them. And I wonder if in that instant, Wenwu had the thought that in dying he’d at least see Ying Li again.

(Side note: I really hope his soul and the souls of everyone that got eaten were freed when Shang Chi killed the monster. I really want them to be able to move on to the next phase of existence. I really hope they weren’t destroyed after being eaten. I want Wenwu to reunite with Ying Li even in the afterlife, gotdamnit! Sue me, I’m a romantic.)

Let’s talk Simu Liu’s performance here for one second. He was incredible throughout. I completely bought into this strange but so real feeling that while he has a lot of anger towards his father, so much hurt, he also felt a lot of heartache and love for who Shang Chi wanted him to be. And the strange desire to want to help a man who emotionally scarred him so badly.

Simu really brought both sides of Shang Chi’s journey to life. Like, he was tying to find his own path, reconcile with the mistakes he’s made in the past (his sister, killing his mom’s murderer), and facing up against his father’s ideals and expectations. But there was also a side of Shang Chi’s journey that was about finally understand both his sister and his father’s point of views, and of learning/embracing his mother’s history.

That moment by the lake when he revealed to Katy that he had actually killed the man who killed his mother. Whew boy! The emotions were so poignant. Simu Liu played it like *chef’s kiss* beautiful.

Speaking of character choices, I really rate this decision to have him actually go through with the assassination. It puts Shang Chi in an interesting position emotionally and somewhat morally. Instead of having his breaking point be him unable to kill as his father wishes, it’s instead the feeling of guilt and shame that he actually did kill the man.

I wonder if he felt a sense of satisfaction before the disgust and shame settled in. Because Shang Chi literally watched his mom die, he probably initially wanted to help his father hunt down the man because of that bit of dark need for vengeance. Until he got it, and felt ashamed to fully face his mother’s memory afterwards.

I’m interested to see how future Shang Chi movies and Simu will dig into and unpack that little bit of darkness these events instilled in the character.

Let’s talk Ying Li for a second here. This woman was incredible. An incredible martial artist, for sure, a mystical guardian and warrior...but she was also just an incredible person in general. Mama Ying Li was so self-assured, so steadfast in her convictions. She struck me as someone who knows exactly what she wants and is never afraid to reach for it.

Fala Chen portrayed her with such grace, warmth, and strength of character. It was extremely easy to see why Wenwu fell in love with her. She met Wenwu, a literal thousand year old warlord, and through shear strength of character led him to put down his weapons and his empire to make a home with her.

This man threw away his entire shadow army of assassins, threw away his whole plan to literally demolish her village in the pursuit of power...in order to play Dance Dance Revolution with her and their kids. (The highlight of their romance and the family flashbacks, for me, tbh.)

And I know it’s not necessarily...positive BUT there is something...hmmmm, crunchy in the fact that Ying Li so completely altered Wenwu’s life by simply loving him that when she died he was willing to raze the whole world to get her back, damn the consequences.

Trying to properly explore toxic and negative turns in previously loving family dynamics is such a difficult task to take on. I really liked the complexity of the Xu family. All the actors really sold the family side of things. It was an almost tangible thing how much you could see how the love they felt had turned bitter and painful over the years.

The final battle was epic and mind blowing (There was a fucking DRAGON flying around for gods’ sake!) but I do wish it had stayed a little more grounded for longer in the beginning of it when the Ten Rings were fighting the Ta Lo warriors. I wanted to see more of that fight before they had the turn to becoming temporary allies against the soul suckers. It became a little too much of a CGI mash, for me, in some parts of it.

Still, the emotional beats held and the core of the story of this grieving family trying to hold on to the tatters of their world stayed consistent even through the final battle. I can forgive a lot because of the strong sense of character and connection there.

Plus, it’s a comic book movie. Spectacle is the name of the game and at least this one had cool fantasy beasts and dope fight choreo.

Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. Let’s wrap it up here. Suffice it to say, I had a wonderful time with this movie. I’m ready for the next one!

#shang chi #shang chi and the legend of the ten rings #mcu #xu shang-chi #simu liu #tony leung #xu wenwu #meng'er zhang #xu xialing #ying li #fala chen #mcu spoilers #shang chi spoilers #liveblogging

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ironwoodprotectionsquad · 3 years

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The most frustrating thing about RWBY is that it never seems to know what it wants to be. There is no middle ground. If they wanted to make James wrong and RWBY right, then MAKE THEM RIGHT RIGHT OFF THE BAT. They spend so much time questioning Ruby’s decision only to double down and I’m left wondering if they’re aware this is MORE frustrating then just making things clear cut. Making James evil was a bad decision. Period. This made a bad decision worse.

RWBY is....very confused on what story exactly it is trying to tell I have to agree their. The issue is CRWBY tries to do extremely contradictory things in their story over and over again and act surprised when people are frustrated by that.

For example, somehow Ozpin is evil for training teenagers who willingly go to huntsman academies to fight but James is also evil for trying to make a robotic army to take people off the battlefield. When their is a seemingly endless army of soulless man eating monsters that go out of their way to try and kill people and destroy towns that are drawn to negative emotions, you can't also be trying to preach "War is bad" it just does not work because in this case, the fighting isn't happening because anyone wants it, but because they literally have no choice but to fight if they want to survive. The fate of humanity depends on someone knowing how to and being able to fight.

Or back to the whole decisions thing, at first I thought maybe Yang would question Ruby more and push her to tell James the truth but....they have one conversation that lasts less then a minute and that's the end of it. It is so beyond frustrating. We set up really well a potential split in the group and then....nothing happens and everyone is back in the hive mind again no problem. But it is a problem. Real people don't agree on every single thing. It's just not a thing. We're all different and unique and have out own life experience's that shape us into who we are. That causes us to not agree on things and that's fine, healthy even.

The show setting up everyone doubting Ruby's decisions and leadership skills but eventually coming around and coming back together again is not a bad plot at all. I would say under these stressful situations its realistic and could work well. However, its only the people who dare to question the perfect Ruby who have to apologize. Ruby doesn't have to admit she was wrong, she doesn't really have to doubt herself or her choices at all and that is the problem.

Let Ruby make mistakes, let her screw up and learn and grow and still be a hero. No one is perfect, not even heroes. We screw up and make bad calls or lose our tempers. But that doesn't make us a bad person suddenly. It makes us human. But when characters are not allowed to make mistakes and screw up and still be considered a good person, it makes it hard to connect with them because their is nothing to relate to with them because we are not perfect.

Uh sorry went off on a tangent their but yes, if they wanted to introduce an arc where people started questioning Ruby, they needed to have proper follow through and not have them be yelled into submission. Let them all really talk and work through their issues and come back stronger. But this weird sort of argument and then re assimilate suddenly just does not work, especially in a morally complex issue like the one introduced at the end of volume 7. Neither James nor Ruby where wrong for the choices they wanted to make in how to deal with the Salem issue. It's Ruby's choice to commit treason and openly attack the leader of a country to get her damn way that's the issue but the show again treats it as right and no one is allowed to question the choice no matter what because James has to be evil and Ruby has to be right no questions asked.

#RWDE #james ironwood #ironwood protection squad #pro james ironwood #pro ironwood #general ironwood #general dadmiral

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scolopendress-tag · 3 years

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I said I'd make a post detailing my kid Asra working for Lucio theory in this post so here it is!

So Let's get STARDED.

So! To start off, how it began. We do know when Asra and Muriel were kids, Lucio came to them each seperately with a deal.

Essentially: work for me, or I'll hurt your friend.

This was the sentiment he repeated for both of them. So, not wanting the other to be harmed, they both agree - unaware of the other's deal.

For Muriel, it was playing heel/excecutioner at the coleseium. For Asra, it was doing... Well, we never know, aside from he worked under Lucio. But that's what we are here to discuss in any case.

Continued under the read more, for the sake of people's dashes.

Now presumably, if I got my timeline right, Asra at this time would've been around 12 or 13. We don't know much about how Asra was when he was younger, other than that he has certainly changed.

It's also worth noting that it's not amiss to say they were both also still homeless at the time, and the hut hadn't come into the play until after.

Asra was still living on the streets.

This all isn't overly important for any of my claims later, but perhaps someone else could make something of it. It does provide us with some framing for the situation as a whole, though.

Now onto Asra's time under Lucio. I don't know that we have any indication of how long it was, but presumably at least a year if not more.

We do also know that Lucio knew who Asra was. Both in that he knew Aisha and Salim had a kid, and that he knew Asra was said kid.

This is bring this up because we know Aisha and Salim were incredibly talented, and likely incredibly powerful. Lucio wouldn't settle for any run of the mill magician or alchemist for the work he needed. So he must've had some idea that Asra may take after that power as well.

To top it off, he also interacted and talked with the dock kids he also used, (two of which would actually later become palace guards,) and seeing as this is seemingly how he learned of Muriel, it's not off to think that this is also how he heard of Asra again to start. The kids knew of Asra's magic, and roughly where he was, and could've even continued talking about both Muriel and Asra to Lucio for unknown amounts of time.

So now Lucio knows that the kid of his two powerful practitioners of magic is not only still around, but taking after them as well.

If Muriel's intimidating size and physical power are what drew Lucio to him, why wouldn't Asra's considerable metaphysical power and talents draw Lucio in as well?

We know how much Lucio loves power, and that he has an interest in magic because of it, as mentioned in the main story. (no ss sorry... If you have one send so I can add. )

Plus, homeless kid in a vulnerable spot. Easy pickings.

That's what I think this whole thing was about, really. It's all power. Though Asra likely didn't have the full scope of power he does in the current game, he was probably still considerably talented, and was only getting better.

What Lucio specifically probably wanted from Asra then was either to be taught how to use that power, to use Asra for things that required it, and/or use his power for entertainment akin to how he used Muriel.

I think out of these however, using him for his power was most likely. Why? (And teaching him now, more on that further down)

(Sorry for bad quality lmao it's a small image. Also thanks to @8-bit-space for showing these to me like months ago. As you can see I can't stop thinking abt it)

These are screenshots from the old prologue. While they're not canon any more, there's reason to believe they still hold merit as to how Lucio feels about Asra.

Two things to me are major here. First is the "powerful potent magic," and how it's the "real deal," equating to a large part of how he views Asra yet again tying back to a heavy interest in his power. Now, you could argue this relates to using his powers in the palace during the plague, but the second point stands out even more to me.

"The one who broke him for me?"

What this implies to me is that Lucio could never quite get all the way through to Asra or control him when he was younger, and he's been dying to do so. He wanted Asra broken, presumably so that he'll become essentially a tool for him to use for his skill and not put up a fight- something Asra likely did as a child.

Because it seems that Lucio for the most part relied on control through fear when it came to Asra, threatening to hurt Muriel, lying to him about how he executed his parents, likely other things as well. But things seem to point to that never quite working like he had hoped.

This could allude to this as well. Though "impossible" is something Asra's been called a few times, namely also by Julian, there's no reason to assume Lucio wasn't also including his work with him as a kid in "always". Impossible to hate could be his draw to Asra for his power, his talent, his skills, the prospect of which I'm sure Lucio found practically mouthwatering. Impossible to love could be his stubbornness or reluctance to do what Lucio wants, always pushing against him or being hard to deal with, both as a kid and during the plague.

And lines like this, where he calls him a coward. I find it hard to relate this to the plague ritual as he was for the most part willingly helping with that, so it could be resenment for when Asra eventually ran off as a kid, unwilling to put up with him any longer, or his reluctance to do certain things for him then in general.

We know, and it has even been mentioned by a character within the canon, that Asra can be incredibly stubborn, to back that up. Plus, he could've been even harder to work with then both being a kid and as I mentioned earlier he has changed from how he was then, so he could've had more spunk to him or such.

This also easily means that what Lucio was trying to get Asra to do then was something Asra was quite obviously opposed to. Being used for his power is already degrading enough, but there could be more to it.

You'll notice in the post that was linked at the top (the reason I'm writing this) I mentioned pushing Asra to his physical limits and magical extremes. This could be one of the reasons for a push back.

If Lucio was having Asra do things for him involving magic, it's not out of pocket to assume he'd practically run him into the ground- I'm sure he really wouldve loved testing the limits of what Asra could REALLY do.

Wether it be huge expendure of power all at once, or tons of smaller things one after the other, it would absolutely take it's toll. We are shown a few times that using magic can exhaust someone, and I don't remember if this is shown in canon ever (tell me if so!) but pushing it even further could definitely lead to other things such as passing out, (Or nosebleeds, for the aesthetic,) alongside likely being incredibly painful and draining, both mentally and physically.

Basically, abusing his powers and the body that commanded them. It's also possible that the stubborness to work with Lucio could also be partially percieved because of this- Lucio taking Asra's literal physical inability to continue as defiance.

Another reason for push back from Asra would be making him do morally compromising things. This is a little more vague, but intimidation is a common headcanon I see for what Lucio made Asra do, and that could tie in here. Other things could be meddling in things and business he shouldn't, but again, it's a vague thing. Make of it what you will. Fucked up stuff all around.

[EDIT - TEACHING LUCIO]

(THANK YOU @tea-tye for showing me these, and credits to @hangedman-magician for the video they came from!!!!!!!)

...I cannot BELIEVE I forgot this, I KNEW I was missing something. Especially when I was fairly certain I remember Lucio being obsessed with the idea of magic. SO, MOVING ON,

There's not terribly much to pick apart here as it's rather direct- Asra saying he has in fact tried to teach Lucio magic. So in my eyes this solidifies that this was a component of Asra's time under Lucio. I still think my points about Lucio treatment (pushing Asra to his limits) stand, as well.

This can also tie in the stubborness mentioned as, well, can you imagine teaching Lucio? Asra backs this up by saying nothing he has ever said stuck with Lucio, and you know how Lucio gets when things don't go his way. He would've blamed his inability to learn on Asra, likely.

Looking to other quotes mentioned: the 'broke him' line still rings to me like he was trying to use Asra in other ways, and the 'coward' line could go either way from refusing to teach Lucio certain things, or refusing to do certain things for Lucio when he was merely being used. The "impossible" line could also go for others, as trying to teach someone like Lucio would've undoubtedly caused some head butting.

This is certainly really exciting and interesting to me as it gives a more complete picture on the exact situation at hand here. I still stay by my reasoning for Lucio simply using Asra as well on top of being taught because it seems highly likely that Lucio would've been too impatient to learn to do certain things himself, and like I said as well, I don't doubt he also just wanted to see what Asra was REALLY capable of. Something he could've saw as a tantalizing insight into the kind of power he could aquire of this kid would just... work with him.

NOW we have a MUCH clearer answer as to what exactly Asra was likely doing under Lucio, or at this point, almost certainly doing. It's a sad picture for Asra of course, but with this you can draw some interesting points as to how he could've been affected by this, as I'm sure it would've left some kind of imprint on him.

Sure it may not have been as traumatic as what Muriel went through, but when you look at it, it's hard to say it DIDN'T leave it's scars. If we consider all the points presented in this post truth we have:

A 12/13 yo homeless child, threatened with his friend's life to work for the Count that he knew was the one responsible for orphaning him and making him homeless in the first place.

Said child believing his parents are still alive, and as we see in Travel at Night, could very likely still be trying to find them. In a situation like Asra's that glimmer of hope probably was a big deal in helping him push on. This may also be a reason he agreed on top of Muriel's safety.

While working under the count, he is told that his parents were executed, no doubt devastating. The manner in which this was mentioned is up for debate, and could affect exactly how it was taken. Options could be Lucio joking or bragging about it (treating it as trivial or an accomplishment), or using it to threaten Asra, (as in I killed your parents, I'll kill you too,) both would work when it comes to controlling by fear.

It is also mentioned that Lucio told him the reason for his parents execution is that they messed up his gold arm, so Asra also has the knowledge that his parents were killed over something so unbelievably trivial.

Being used as a source of power and nothing else, both for teaching and pure work/entertainment, all for the man who killed his parents, day after day.

Being pushed to physically painful and mentally draining limits, expending so much energy that he completely exhausts himself, day after day.

Likely taking all sorts of verbal abuse from Lucio, day after day.

Like mentioned earlier, it seems clear that Lucio wanted to break Asra, so some other form of trying to chip away at his psyche to make him more convenient for Lucio is likely as well.

Those points alone, to yet again a CHILD no less, seem more than enough to cause some traumatic impact, and depending on certain specifics of what exactly went on during that time, it could be worse. I may make a post looking into the long lasting effects of this on Asra, I may not. It would mostly be headcanon regardless. If you want to add your hc relating to this situation though, I'll gladly reblog it!

And now that we are closing out, it's time to revise my summary. So, without further ado, THIS is what I think was going on during this time.

Lucio knows of Asras existence and parentage.

Lucio learns Asra is around and that he's got power.

Lucio LOVES power, so he threatens Asra into working for him.

Lucio uses Asra for his power and to be taught how to use it for himself.

While using Asra for his knowledge and power, runs him into the ground by pushing his limits to physical and magical degrees, possibly even moral.

Asra pushes back against a lot of this, or is at least percieved to, frustrating Lucio.

Lucio does what he can to try and control Asra even more, primarily via fear, but can't seem to crack him.

Eventually it's too much, and Asra leaves. Likely when the plague hit like Muriel, but it's possible it could've been somewhat sooner. Lucio is PISSED, because he wanted that magical power all to himself.

Less related, I can see Lucio trying to brush it off and pretending to be fine with it, excuse being "he was too difficult to work with, anyways," or something.

...And then... years later, as far as Lucio sees it, Asra comes crawling back- and he's tamed down to a degree! He's actually working with him. Lucio might not know what or who did it, but Asra is finally broke for him, and I'm sure he was absolutely ecstatic to have that power back in his hands- and more than ever before.

Think of all of this as you would like!

At the end this is all still speculative, so definitely feel free to make your own points or say if you feel any different abt anything- expansions or counters on this theory/headcanon welcome!

And if you also have any other screenshots or info not here that could add to the theory or change the outlook of certain things definitely add them!!! I feel like I'm missing stuff for sure, and my memory has probably muddled some things (hopefully I didn't get anything wrong, though.)

And @asrascherry thanks for the offer in helping word my hcs also! I forgot to say that. This one is just so long I wouldve felt bad bringing it all to you 😔 it's probably still messy as a result but I tried lmao (worried it's repetitive or unclear 😬)

Uh yeah! That's mostly it for NOW.

+All the love to Asra for going through so much I'm so sorry bb,,

Thanks for reading!

#asra #the arcana #the arcana game #asra alnazar #asra the arcana

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thebeautysurrounds · 3 years

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THIS CONTAINS SLIGHT SPOILERS FOR NEVER HAVE I EVER S2 READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

This is quite long I had a lot to unpack.

Since watching the 2nd season of Never Have I Ever a few things have been bothering me about the way people are reacting to Devi, and the show overall but mostly Devi. First of all she’s what a sophomore in high school? and she’s doing this all while being the only brown girl (up until kinda the middle of S2) and still dealing with grief and having absolutely no idea who she is yet. To me outside of being an honor roll student she is not doing things FOR HER she is doing this to appease her mother. Who while she means well pushing Devi to succeed to certain extremes which if Devi shows the slightest behavior of fucking up her mother makes harsh comments instead of understanding Devi is a literal teenager and needs room for fucking up.

Is Devi hella unreasonable at times? YES does she often times act strictly on impulse without a second thought…YES. But as a girl who virtually has no one outside of her friends who also are staring to drift from her and get into their first relationships themselves and have their own activities she essentially is left to navigate the world and her teenage angst alone. While I will give Nalini credit for all the work and time she has put in to not only being a single mother and navigating her own grief but also being a working mother who is a doctor and quite possibly has her own struggles with being a brown women in that filed. My problem lies with her not being able to balance or even let go of a strong arm parenting style that mostly focuses on Devi’s fuck up more than her accomplishments and makes comments on how her fuck ups that haven’t even happened yet. I’m not sure Nalini even realizes Devi is at the very very top of her class because I truly believe (after S1) even though Nalini apologized to Devi Nalini has a ‘hoping for the best but expecting the worst’ attitude when it comes to Devi and that’s in the for front of her mind so much she doesn’t realize Devi goes above and beyond not only for herself but to make her mother proud of her all for her mother to just not acknowledge that.

Now with Devi’s characterization I get where some people are coming from on saying Devi shouldn’t have been “boy crazy” or that they “ruined her character development” but here’s my problem those critiques while valid and your allowed to have those opinions…It’s just not really realistic and let me tell you why like I stated Devi is what a sophomore in high school and she has made it a abundantly clear her parents forbid her to date cause it’s school and extra curriculars only. Which will lead to a good college which thus will turn into a good career. While that’s all well and good. I don’t think y’all realize the FOMO of being in high school and growing up with very strict parents, and wanting to have your first relationship. Wanting to be an actual teenager and not wanting to think about 3-4 years down the line which most teenagers don’t/can’t visualize cause it’s not the right now. Devi wants to have those experiences and there’s nothing wrong with that does she go about it the right way…not exactly but y’all act like YOU have never been a teenager and said and done awful things out of anger or just pure immature stupidity. For the boy crazy part Devi is literally having her first feelings and experiences with boys she has 0 clue what she is doing outside of probably books, tv, movies and what her friends assume they know (even though they mean well) the only person Devi would remotely trusts is gone, and she can’t ask her mother cause her mother would honestly probably shut her down and make her feel guilty for even wanting to start having her first experiences with boys. Y’all have such a warped view of not only real teenagers and high school aged kids but also fictional ones. Y’all are so use to shows having protagonist being awful or starting off kinda okay but then their character turns awful and remains that way. What some of you fail to realize is actual teenagers and “teenagers” in shows can/are VERY morally grey.

Should Devi have been honest and possibly communicated to both Ben and Paxton that she has some sort of feelings for them both..possibly but Devi is a teenager do you think she is having a in depth analysis and talk with herself (outside of a pros and cons list) about what infatuation versus lust versus genuine connection versus romantic attraction looks like probably not. Let’s also analyze how she literally goes from being in her eyes forgettable to being noticed and even though it’s not talked about in the show explicitly she honestly probably struggles with self esteem/self image issues. To go from being a girl who to her no one cares about/notices to one who is getting the attention of two boys who are in Devi’s eyes attractive in their own right. She is so consumed with two guys ACTUALLY being interested in her that she fails to realize she is/and will hurt them both, Do I think Paxton is genuinely attracted to Devi…maybe. But I’m still on the fence about their relationship to me in the beginning I felt Paxton felt Devi is just another meaningless high school fling that he will forget about once he gets to college but to Devi here’s this guy who is “popular” very attractive and he pays attention to her is she looking at the semantics of the situation and how Paxton is more than likely just using her and is only engaging with Devi to get a passing grade and to basically give her the superficial experience of a “high school boyfriend” no she’s not she’s looking at it like here’s this guy who is attractive and he wants to be with someone like me. But do I also believe Devi in S1 was using Paxton and then fell for him DEFINITELY but I will give credit to Paxton for trying at a real relationship with Devi and I hope he will try to be more open and honest.

Do I think Ben likes Devi I honestly do, While the insensitive jokes (exchanged between both) should be discussed I think Ben over time started to see Devi as a girl who finally saw him not the rich, annoying, know it all. But in his view Devi and him are on equal playing fields because they are both overly driven smart individuals and when she said yes to going out with him it was probably the first time he felt like a girl saw the real him. While Ben too more than likely struggles with abandonment issues him dating Devi in a way made him feel like this was the first time he could actual be happy about something cause it was something he actually wanted and not something he just did to earn points in others books and impress people he genuinely got something on his own and that he was actually happy not a front he put on. To me Ben’s abandonment issues come out even more than in S1 when he tells Devi why he’s so hurt and it’s the night of the party when she runs after Paxton (who he sees has it all) and Devi doesn’t “choose him” Do I think Ben and Devi should date cause they share some form of the same trauma no. But again Devi is not use and doesn’t even know what to do with the attention of two people. Again is Devi looking at the semantics of her relationship with Ben…No. I don’t think Devi even realizes she’s quite literally hurting two people cause we could also discuss how Ben and Paxton probably have had other flings and relationships without a second thought while Devi having no relationship experiences and this is territory for her and she has no idea what she is doing or how to properly navigate this situation.

I’m almost done with this long ass rant I promise but it’s two more things I want to make light of/point out I don’t think anyone really gives Devi credit for still going to therapy, loosing a parent is unbearable especially loosing one as young as Devi did, especially when you feel the only parent that truly understood and supported you is gone. Devi doing things that are impulsive and unreasonable because she quite literally has no guidance her mother is only consumed with Devi not making the family “look bad” Devi’s grief is so heavy and she feels she’s going at it alone because her mother doesn’t take genuine time to talk to her. Now was Devi “stalking” her mother extremely inappropriate yes for sure but do Nalini and her need to communicate better for Devi to understand that her mother wasn’t dating sure even if Nalini was on a date their should have been communication there. Devi will probably never stop grieving her father hell he literally came to her in a dream to tell her she deserves better when it came to “dating” Paxton and Nalini will probably never stop grieving her husband but she deserves happiness too and I believe if Devi and Nalini were both honest with each other her slowly dating again wouldn’t have been a problem. Another point I wanna make connecting Devi, Paxton, and Ben is they all have this view that the grass is greener on the other side and that’s just not the case. Ben is jealous of Paxton cause he feels he has the “Perfect life” but in actuality Paxton is extremely flawed and honestly insecure his own family doesn’t believe in him and he knows people only like him because he is attractive, while Paxton looks at Ben like this, while annoying Ben is smart, rich, and no one ever questions Ben’s intelligence but in actuality Ben is very lonely and has spent most of his life alone or being raised by other people which has caused him to put on a huge front to people and often times overcompensate in his social life, and Devi looks at other girls like they have it all and have 0 struggles or problems (I.e her views on Anissa) but Devi fails to realize thy also struggle, are insecure, is struggling with mental illness, and don’t have themselves figured out, and Devi is looking at this man her mom is “dating” as if he’s taking something away but In actuality he is experiencing his own losses. All in all Never Have I Ever gets teenage angst and messy problematic morally grey teenagers right and the fact that y’all beg for more “flawed or problematic” characters and when you get them you don’t like that they are just that it’s odd to me it seems like y’all only want problematic characters if it’s how you see fit.

TL;DR: Y’all need to stop acting like y’all weren’t gross annoying and had fuck ups as teenagers y’all should really stop pretending like teenagers in real and some of us as teens didn’t have/engage in relationships that weren’t good but we learned from it while this show isn’t real it shows y’all will scream let people fuck up and let them grow but you don’t actually mean it. Devi is a teenager and requires room to grow she even admits she acts out and is impulsive but y’all act like she’s supposed to have the self awareness of a 60 year old.

#netflix never have i ever #never have i ever season 2 #tv show #never have i ever #devi vishwakumar #paxton hall yoshida #ben gross #nalini vishwakumar #maitreyi ramakrishnan #darren barnet #Poorna Jagannathan #jaren lewison #rant #analysis #spoilers #never have I ever spoilers #I wrote this at like 2am so if it doesn’t make much sense 🤷🏾‍♀️#I just had to get these thoughts out there cause it’s been on my mind

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telehxhtrash · 4 years

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GON FREECSS IS NOT INSANE (and the next person who says he is is getting their shins broken)

Hi ! Welcome to another one of my brainrot analysis, and this one is entirely fueled by my hatred of people who mischaracterize Gon. I keep on seeing people say that Gon is crazy, unhinged, a psychopathic monster who only plays a role of the innocent kid.

He’s not.

Gon is a 12 year old with severe trauma due to his dad’s abandonment and unhealthy standards and with a chaotic moral compass forged by his childhood spent on an isolated island.

He’s not a sociopath, not a psychopath, not a monster, not unhinged. He’s just a 12yo thrown in a ruthless world where he has to constantly prove his worth to feel like he can live up to his dad’s expectations.

We’re so used to seeing shounen protagonists be happy, go-lucky characters who never suffer any real mental consequences from their past or adventures that some people have a hard time realizing that it’s just not realistic.

Gon is a realistic portrayal of what happens to an abandoned child tossed in a merciless world where he constantly has to prove his worth. And of course, it’s not pretty. It’s terrifying to see Gon’s evolution, and it’s scary to see him slowly lose it. But it doesn’t make him a monster. It makes him feel human.

Gon is introduced as this happy, cheery, stubborn kid who never backs down from a fight and likes the thrill of putting his life in danger. Which is…. normal in the shonen world, I’d say. But it’s really not normal for a 12yo, and when you take all the following events into account, it’s clear that Gon is not a normal shonen protagonist.

Gon is a very, very stubborn kid, and we get to see that very early in the manga. The one event that strikes me the most is during his face-off with Hanzo.

Gon gets absolutely destroyed. He’s pretty much getting tortured, with Hanzo breaking his left arm and threatening to cut off the rest of his limbs if he doesn’t surrender. But Gon doesn’t back down. And it’s terrifying.

No matter how much pain he’s in, no matter the consequences, he refuses to give up.

Because he hates being seen as weak.

Gon refuses to show any hint of weakness, and gets extremely mad whenever people perceive him as such. It doesn’t matter what the consequences are, he will NEVER back down. He’ll never be weak, even if it kills him.

And we’ve seen this a lot throughout the manga. Right after he shows his Ren to Tsezguerra during the Greed Island interview, Gon is pissed because he felt like he was being treated like trash. Same thing during early Chimera Ant Arc, when Kite tells Gon and Killua to fight Rammott, Gon gets really, really mad when Kite implies that if they can’t defeat him, that means they’re weak.

Gon really, really struggles with being perceived as weak. It’s the one thing he hates the most. That’s why he’s stubborn about this and never backs down even if it costs him his life : he wants to prove his worth. He feels that need to prove he’s not weak, to prove he’s not trash.

Weakness is not an option. He has to get stronger and stronger and stronger, because at the end of the road lies his goal : Ging.

And to me, Ging explains Gon’s most prominent character traits. Because Ging not only created those traits, but he also enabled them.

In shonen anime, oftentimes, the main protagonist’s dad is out of the picture, but it never truly has any impact on the character’s mental state or behavior. This is not the case in Hunter x Hunter.

Ging leaving left Gon with deep, deep trauma, and an extremely distorted view on his self-worth that leads him to overcompensate with physical strength.

When a child gets abandoned, they usually blame themselves. It creates that feeling of guilt, that maybe their parent left because of them, and that they weren’t and AREN’T important for them to just walk out like this.

This feeling of guilt and shame creates a twisted self esteem in that child, making them believe that they aren’t important, that they aren’t of value. That they aren’t worth anything. Because their parents left them, it surely had to do with them, right ?

Gon has that distorted self-esteem that a child experiences after being abandoned. He has absolutely 0 value over his own body, constantly breaking it, pushing it past its limit to reach his goals, and this lack of self-worth and need to prove his worth is oftentimes represented physically by Gon hurting/losing his arm.

Everytime Gon loses/hurts his arm, it’s always after doing something out of need for validation. In Hunter Exam Arc, it’s right after refusing to let Hanzo win. In Heaven’s Arena Arc, it’s after he uses zetsu to win, no matter the consequences. In Yorknew Arc, Gon gets his hand destroyed by Nobunaga/his arm almost broken off by Feitan after he stood up to them. In Greed Island, Gon loses his hand for the sole purpose of training. And lastly, in Chimera Ant Arc, he loses his arm entirely after destroying Pitou in an attempt to ease his guilt.

Gon really struggles with his self-worth, and it’s also illustrated during the time they’re held hostage by Nobunaga, when Killua insists that he’ll stop his blade so that Gon can escape, even if it costs him his life. To which Gon replies with a sentence that is extremely crucial to be able to understand Gon’s character.

”I can say I’ll die, but you can’t !”

Gon values Killua’s life more than his own. He gets to talk about death, he gets to be hurt, he gets to put his life in danger, because it’s fine if he does it, but Killua is absolutely not allowed to. Gon has absolutely no value over his own life, and doesn’t care if he dies. He doesn’t care if he gets hurt. Because at the end of the day, his body is not of value, and I truly believe that Ging’s abandonment left him with a feeling that he wasn’t of value as a whole.

And to me, this broken sense of self-worth is what created Gon’s hatred of being seen as weak. Because if he shows weakness, then Ging was right to abandon him. If he’s weak, then that means he’s trash, and worth nothing. If he doesn’t live up to his dad’s expectation, then what’s the point ? He’d mean nothing. He’d be no one. Just a small island boy whose dad left because his job was more interesting. That’s why he has to prove his worth no matter what.

Finding Ging is like this Holy Grail to Gon. It’s the ultimate goal. Like Kite said the first time he met him, it’s the ultimate hunt. It’s something that proves you’re worthy. So of course, Gon has to do everything in his power to find him. Because he wants to prove his worth. He wants to find his dad and prove that he’s not weak.

And to me, that’s why Gon is so stubborn and self-destructive.

I mentioned that Hanzo fight earlier, and there’s something interesting that happens during that fight that can be used to illustrate this.

Hanzo asks why Gon is so stubborn, why he refuses to back down when he could just lose this match and face someone else. It’s true, Gon could have easily given up and fought someone else, he could’ve won then. But he refused to even consider the possibility. He had to win THIS fight. But why ? Is it out of pride ? Is it out of pure stubbornness ?

Well, as Gon says himself :

It has nothing to do with pride or being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. It’s easy. If he shows weakness once, he’s not worthy. He’s not worthy of finding Ging, and he’s worth less than trash. Because if he’s weak, he doesn’t deserve to find him.

And this is so, so important. Because this is the reason Gon never backs down from anything, even at the cost of his limbs. Because like he said, if he loses, he thinks that he won’t be able to meet Ging. So he has to do ANYTHING, anything at all, no matter the cost, to be able to find him.

That’s why he’s not backing down from the Hanzo fight at the cost of his arm. That’s why he’s using zetsu during his fight against Gido, even if it’s dangerous, because that’s what he has to do to get stronger. That’s why he purposefully blasts off his own hand during his fight with Genthru. Because he has to get stronger, no matter the cost.

And Ging enables him. By making him feel like Gon has to “earn” the right to see him, Ging is fueling Gon’s self-destructive behavior.

Ging enables him when he tells him that he has to hunt him to find him, that he doesn’t want to see him and that he’ll run away when he senses him coming. That cat and mouse game is putting extreme pressure on Gon’s shoulders. His dad expects great things of him. He expects strength, and he expects him to find him. It’s a challenge. And an unhealthy one.

Greed Island is another example of that unhealthy challenge and the pressure of Ging’s expectations. Greed Island was created for Gon. It was created to train him, and as Bisky says herself :

If Gon wants to see Ging, he has to be strong. He has to always be stronger and stronger so he can earn the right to see him.

Quoting one of my references here, but this is also a form of abandonment that fuels Gon’s self destructive behavior.

All of these expectations put extreme pressure on Gon’s shoulders. Because he has to keep on pushing further and further, always improving, always getting stronger, and he’s not allowed to show weakness because it’d mean losing his goal.

But showing weakness wouldn’t only mean he’d lose his goal. Being weak would also mean he’d lose Killua.

I mentioned that when a child gets abandoned, they fear it’s their fault and develop a broken sense of self-worth. But that’s not all. After having been hurt, it’s normal to try and minimize the risk of being hurt again. You’d do anything to not be walked out on again. And that’s what Gon is doing. His fear of vulnerability and weakness is a fear of rejection and abandonment.

That’s also why Gon hates being seen as weak. Because if he’s weak, not only is he not living up to his dad’s expectations, but he’s also running the risk of Killua walking out on him. Because he’s scared that if he shows weakness, Killua will leave him, just like Ging did. Because he’s not strong enough to keep him, or anyone by his side.

And to make up for that overwhelming feeling of insecurity and his guilt over being weak, Gon overcompensates with physical strength and stubbornness. We’ve seen it multiple times throughout the manga. Gon purposefully gets hurt when facing a dangerous situation, just so he can prove his worth. Just so he can get stronger.

Gon overcompensates and takes everything onto his shoulders for this sole purpose of proving he’s worthy of staying.

Take the dodgeball match during Greed Island arc. There’s an interesting thing happening during the match that says a lot about Gon.

When Killua almost gets killed by Razor, it makes Gon’s blood boil. He’s furious and enraged that Razor dared try to hurt Killua. Because Killua has NOTHING to do with this. He’s only here because of Gon, and here he is, risking his life for him. Razor is putting Killua’s life in danger because of Gon. And that makes Gon go feral.

But the most interesting line happens here :

“I have to crush him completely”

Gon completely shuts off Killua at this point. He says HE has to be the one to crush him completely. He’s taking this responsibility onto himself, he has to be the one to defeat Razor, it’s his role. His and no one else’s.

And to me, that’s another sign of overcompensation fueled by abandonment issues. Gon feels guilt at what just happened. Killua shouldn’t have to risk his life to hang out with Gon. He has nothing to do with this, he’s only here because he wants to, and it drives Gon mad that Razor is trying to hurt him when it has nothing to do with him.

So because he feels guilt, because him not being able to protect Killua fully is a sort of weakness, he overcompensates with strength and by wanting to handle everything alone.

He affirms that he will take the responsibility of winning against Razor. It’s his fault Killua almost got hurt, so he has to bear the consequences alone. He has to make things right, no matter the cost. He has to show strength. He has to prove his worth.

Because what if Killua left him because he wasn’t strong enough?

I think this situation illustrates pretty well Gon’s trauma-fueled thought process :

• “It’s my fault this is happening because I’m too weak” (sparked by his twisted self-worth due to his abandonment issues)

• “So I have to bear the consequences alone” (to prove his worth as to not be abandoned again)

• “I won’t back down under any circumstance because my life has no value” (because of his lack of self-worth once again)

And this pattern is found in any situation in the manga. When Gon lets Kon scratch his arm until he bleeds to keep Kite from killing him, he’s doing it because it’s his fault Kon’s mom had to die. When Gon refuses to back down from Hanzo’s fight as he keeps breaking multiple parts of his body, he’s doing it because he believes that if he’s weak and backs down he won’t be worth seeing Ging. When Razor almost kills Killua, Gon flips out and emphasizes that he has to crush Razor because it’s his fault Killua is here and he won’t back down on kicking Razor’s ass. And that’s why when Kite dies and Gon sees his mangled body, he tells Killua “I’m taking on that one (Pitou) alone” : because Kite got hurt because of his weakness, Gon has to make amends in any way possible.

That’s why Gon hurts himself, that’s why he’s constantly putting everything on his shoulders : he has no value over his own life. He’s focused on proving he’s worth something at any cost.

And those escalating feelings of insecurity and this behavioral pattern are exactly why Gon broke down during Chimera Ant Arc. Because everything that was piling up went crumbling down when he saw Kite’s arm being cut off. Because he was weak for an instant.

It was his fault. It was his fault, because he was weak, because he couldn’t defend Kite, because even though Kite had just lost a limb, he was still stronger than both Gon and Killua combined. If he had just trained harder, if he had put his life on the line more, if he pushed himself past his limit, maybe this wouldn’t have happened. It was his fault.

At that precise moment when Kite’s arm got severed, every single insecurity that Gon had from the beginning of this manga is flooding in. Gon feels weak, he feels guilt, he feels like all of this is his fault. He feels like he wasn’t enough.

And because it’s his fault, he has to take everything on his shoulders. He has to be the one to bear the weight of his mistake alone. He has to be the one to carry the burden. Just like that dodgeball match.

Because he just lost everything. He showed weakness once, and everything crumbled. He had just gotten his dad’s student hurt, and that weakness meant that he also just lost his goal of finding Ging. Because now that he showed a hint of weakness, Ging would never want to see him. Gon had just lost everything. His mentor, his goal, and his weakness might drive Killua away too.

That’s why he put everything on his shoulder and vowed to make things right. Because he wanted to prove to himself, to Ging, to Kite, and more importantly to Killua that he could do this alone. That he wasn’t a failure. That he wasn’t weak. That he was worthy of staying.

That’s why when he sees Kite’s mangled body, he tells Killua that he’s taking onto Pitou alone. Because it’s his responsibility. He has to make things right. It was his fault for being weak. It’s his fault Kite got hurt.

And at that moment, Gon probably already knew that he wouldn’t stop at any cost. Because it was a quest to assuage his guilt. It was a quest to make things right and prove that he wasn’t weak, that he could fix things, that he was still worthy of Kite and Ging and Killua. That he wasn’t a failure. So he pushed past his limit. Took everything onto his shoulders. Pushed Killua away, because it has nothing to do with him. It’s his own mistake, not Killua’s.

Him going after Pitou is his attempt at redemption, a plea for help. A plea for someone to realize his worth. A plea to not be abandoned again.

And that’s why Gon is not a monster. He’s just a terrified child.

During Chimera Ant Arc, he’s bottling up his feelings of inadequacy and guilt just so he could attempt to fix the mess he created, attempting to carry everything on his shoulders alone, because he can’t afford to drag anyone else into his mess, especially not Killua.

Gon is not a monster for pushing Killua away. It is not a sign of him being unhinged or manipulative. It’s an act of protection. An act of love, his way of saying “This is my mess and I have to fix this, I can’t let you get hurt for my sake.”. It’s the desperate attempt of a broken 12 year old to try and make things right.

Gon is not a monster because he threatened Komugi. It was a desperate attempt at regaining a sense of control on the situation.

Because Gon’s morality has always been weird, it broke him to see Pitou heal Komugi. He couldn’t comprehend why something he categorized as evil was doing something as pure as healing. Just like that time during York New Arc ! Gon couldn’t understand why Chrollo was mourning the death of one of his members when he showed no remorse relentlessly killing innocent people. This inability to understand that bad people can do good things already broke Gon during YN arc, and it happened again during Chimera Ant Arc.

He had nowhere to put his anger. All this time, he created this mental picture of Pitou in his head, this one where they’re an evil, evil villain who could never do anything good, he classified them as bad and that was that. But faced with them performing a pure act of healing, it broke Gon. He had no outlet for his anger.

So he did what a 12 year old with a broken sense of worth and a need for validation would do : he overcompensated with even more anger.

In a desperate attempt at regaining a bit of control on the situation, his last resort was to threaten an innocent life. To take her hostage.

Because if he couldn’t make things right, he’d just lost everything. No matter the cost. No matter what happens. He had to do this. He had to ease his guilt.

Gon is not a monster because he sacrificed his life. He’s not a monster because he turned into an adult version of himself. He’s not a monster because he bashed Pitou’s skull in until it was mush. It was the actions of a broken boy who had nothing left. Who had just lost everything. Because Kite wasn’t hurt, he was DEAD. He was dead by his fault, it was his fault. He had nothing else to live for, because he was weak and lost everything.

So he decided to kill himself to take down Pitou. Because he didn’t deserve to live. And this “fight” with Pitou wasn’t even to avenge Kite’s death. It was an attempt to ease his guilt. To feel a little better, because he might’ve lost everything, but at least he took down Pitou with him.

I’m not condemning Gon’s actions or excusing them. At all. He made mistakes, and committed actions that are hard to excuse. But it was out of despair. It came out of years of pent up trauma and insecurities. His actions were a cry for help.

Gon didn’t “snap” out of nowhere. He always felt weak and insecure, he always had a broken sense of self-worth that led him to be self-destructive and overcompensate by taking everything onto his shoulders.

Chimera Ant Arc just pushed him past his limit. But this darkness, this plea for help, this trauma was always there in Gon’s heart. But it doesn’t mean he’s crazy. He’s just a child with abandonment issues and deep trauma.

To summarize, Ging’s physical and emotional abandonment left Gon with deep wounds that reflected in his behavior. Gon feels weak and insecure, he has no self-worth and a deep need to prove his value which leads him to constantly exhibit self-destructive behavior for the sole purpose of living up to his dad’s expectations and proving his worth.

Gon feels the need to prove his worth and handle everything alone in an attempt to appear strong, and this unhealthy standards he puts onto himself and that Ging’s behavior enables are what ultimately led to his breakdown.

Because when Kite’s arm flew off, so did Gon’s entire reason to exist.

He blamed himself for it, cursed his weakness and desperately attempted to make things right no matter the cost. Even if it meant death. Because death is better than being weak. Death is better than the guilt of having let his mentor down. Death is better than being rejected by his dad for his mistake. Death is better than being abandoned by his best friend.

And this deep, suffocating agony is what led Gon to act the way he did during Chimera Ant Arc.

It wasn’t the acts of a crazy, psychopathic monster. It was the act of a kid, desperately pleading for help.

But this breakdown was a good thing. No, really, it was. It was necessary.

Chimera Ant Arc was written to break down Gon to his core, to break his character in the worst possible way to annihilate the toxic traits he had.

His stubbornness, fear of weakness and self-destructive behavior were always going to break him in the end. But now that he knows what happens when you let all of this take over, it won’t happen again.

Gon is back to square one. Clean start, new beginning. Back to Whale Island with no nen, no goal, and with his best friend gone.

And while some people might see this as depressing, or a sign that Gon didn’t change at all during the manga, it’s actually the exact opposite. It represents a second chance.

It’s the purest form of second chance he can get. He’s back to zero, and he has a blank canvas to be able to fix every wrong he made in the past.

With no nen, he now has the opportunity to learn it the proper way, taking his time to enjoy the process, learning it for pure purposes and not rushing to get stronger for the sole purpose of proving his worth.

With no goal, he’s free to find something that he wants to do for himself, not live in Ging’s shadow. He gets to be who he wants to be, with no unhealthy expectations.

With Killua gone, he gets to reflect on their relationship. He gets to realize the wrongs he’s made, the what-ifs and lost opportunities, he gets to realize how much Killua means to him.

This second chance is not a curse, it’s a blessing. Because it’s exactly what Gon needed to be able to heal.

And I’m willing to bet that this will be Gon’s final character arc : healing. We’ll get to see Gon act in ways that highlight how much he’s changed, showcasing his growth. When he was stubborn, hot-headed and impulsive, he’ll have learned to be more calm and composed. When he was always looking to prove his worth and look for strength, he’ll have learned that his true value lies in who he is and in the little detours of his travels.

He’ll be more calm, won’t put himself in danger for the sake of being stronger, he won’t drag Killua in impossible situations where he has to clean up the mess. He won’t hurt his arm, which was the physical representation of his trauma. He’ll have grown.

Because that’s what HxH is ultimately about. Togashi is all about deconstructing and reconstructing his characters to show growth and healing from trauma. To show that tragedy happens, but at the end of the day, you can overcome your worst traits. At the end of the day, you can become a better person, no matter what.

EDIT : I actually wrote a post on how I believe Gon’s next character arc was foreshadowed here.

Thank you for reading this ! I hope it was all clear and that I expressed my thoughts correctly, without mischaracterizing Gon.

Full disclaimer that I am NOT a psychologist and I’m not attempting to diagnose Gon, I’m just linking the signs of emotional trauma due to abandonment issues to his character in an attempt to explain his actions.

Please feel free to give me your thoughts or criticism !

References :

• “Understanding the pain of abandonment”

• “How to overcome abandonment issues from childhood”

Those two articles are the foundation of my meta. They’re extremely interesting articles that show all the signs of abandonment on a child’s behavior, and it showcases the consequences of both emotional and physical abandonment on their self-worth.

• “Fear of vulnerability and learning to trust again”

#hxh #hxh meta #meta #my meta #holy shit this took me so long to write AHAHHAA #i hope i didnt mischaracterize too badly #and i hope i was kinda clear #ty if you decide to read this <3<3<3

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aiyexayen · 3 years

Note

re: that "I'll live for you post" - WHERE'S THE ESSAY

this post? [innocent face]

alright, alright, JUST TWIST MY ARM WHY DON'T YOU, just force me to talk more about my boys!

4.9k word essay under the cut

Wei Wuxian

Let us take a look at Wei Wuxian first. Wei Wuxian has no problems throwing himself in-between the people he loves and danger, or even certain death. Hell, sometimes he just throws himself into it for fun and profit!

To some extent, putting yourself in danger to help others and being willing to die is something of a cultivator thing in general, a hero thing in general, right? And Wei Wuxian is a prodigy, exceptionally strong and clever, so he has more reason than most to be a little cavalier. But most of the point of training so hard as a cultivator and getting strong and aligning yourself with a sect is kind of so you can be in real danger of dying as little as possible, one would presume.

So we're going to set aside the danger-as-a-profession thing for now, because I think it's only tangentially related.

The real point is, Wei Wuxian is sacrificial to a fault. If there is a problem, he decides he's the one who needs to fix it. And his first go-to solution is to throw himself at it, to give up anything of himself if it's viable. As clever as he is, if he finds a workable solution that involves his own sacrifice, he doesn't stop to look for anything else.

Some of it is pride--not wanting to admit he needs help from anyone else, and the shame of being seen as weak.

Some of it is arrogance--a very natural kind given his competence, the presumption that he knows best in a given situation (neurodivergent arrogance walking hand-in-hand with self-esteem issues is always a fun time).

Some of it is appropriate--ranging from his own moral imperative to protect the weak and do what's right to his understanding of his place in culture and in his own sect and relationships.

Some of it is a natural bent toward caretaking, "fixing," and heroics--someone has to do it, so it's going to be Wei Wuxian. He won't hesitate to take initiative in any other area of life, and this is no exception.

And some of it, yes, is a lack of value placed in his own life--between a more youthful, dramatic perspective on 'I would die for you/for this cause' taking priority in his worldview, and some genuine self-esteem issues. Issues largely stemming from his uncertain place in the world growing up and his uncertain relationship with parental/guardian/master and other familial figures, all stewing under the surface and brought to light sharply when the world went to shit and choices were made and he lost or seemed to have lost everything from his reputation to his home to his extant support structures. The paranoia and voices in his head (the ptsd and resentful-energy-as-ptsd-metaphor both) only drove that home.

Basically, Wei Wuxian was already trending in some unfortunate directions but his circumstances and the people surrounding him kept him grounded, and the events of the story as it unfolded really pushed him all in. No one thing or one person--even Wei Wuxian himself--is really to blame for that, which is the beauty of the story really.

I also think Wei Wuxian started to buy into some of his own stories at his lowest points--the things he said or came up with, lies he told publicly, justifications he made for his choices once the heat of the moment and the panic was over. Justifications he made to himself and to others. He purposefully led people to believe much that was incorrect about him and his character and his status, to which the response was distaste and horror, and even though he planned it that way in order to push everyone away I really think he started to believe it himself. Depression and trauma are just really fun times.

I'm getting a bit off-topic.

The point remains, Wei Wuxian is extremely sacrificial. He comes by much of it naturally, and not nearly all of it is bad or melodrama or angst or even unhealthy or problematic. It's one of his good qualities, too, and it's one of the ways he knows how to love.

All of the threads weaving together to make Wei Wuxian and the situations he finds himself sacrificing things in are all true, but it also really comes down to love. He loved Jiang Cheng enough to sacrifice his everything and risk his life doing so. He loved his sect enough he was willing to sacrifice his right hand. He loved his sect enough to sacrifice his very ties to it. He loved Lan Zhan enough to sacrifice their friendship. He loved Jin Ling enough to sacrifice himself to the curse he got in the Nie tombs. (And more!)

Wei Wuxian loved, and so he sacrificed. Thus, the initial post.

Jiang Cheng

Let's switch gears for a moment and talk about my darling Jiang Wanyin.

Ah, Jiang Cheng, Jiang Cheng. Taking the initiative and sacrificing at the drop of a hat and so forth are not really characteristics of Jiang Cheng's the same way they are for Wei Wuxian.

And yet, is he not also a disciple of Yunmeng Jiang; is he not also a young hero? Has he not pride, and the incentive to do good?

Does he not also see love as sacrifice?

Zi Zhizhu was his mother. The woman who sacrificed to get Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian to safety. The woman who killed herself and crawled across the ground to hold her husband's hand in death.

You think she wasn't Like That the whole time? You think Jiang Cheng picked up nothing of such behaviours from her, even before that day?

Hah.

Besides which, there's absolutely an underlying theme of Jiang Cheng trying to be like Wei Wuxian for much of their lives.

Partially just...Wei Wuxian, strong and clever and popular shige, always manages to get credit and glory and good stories and good favour, exemplary of the Jiang motto--the one Jiang Cheng's own name is tied to. They were supposed to be shuangjie, besides. How could he not want to be like him at least a bit? If nothing else, it's a little brother's curse.

And partially this is also due to Jiang Cheng's parents and that whole Situation.

It was complicated for so many reasons, and absolutely left Jiang Cheng feeling inferior to Wei Wuxian. As though he needed to be more like Wei Wuxian, to emulate him, in order to be worthy of his title and station and inheritance, something that turned out to be categorically untrue in the end. There are many kinds of leaders, and many kinds of strengths.

As an aside, I personally think that's something Jiang Fengmian and Yu Ziyuan knew, themselves, as adults and leaders and political figures in their own rights. Adults often don't realise or think about how the things they say can influence children's entire worldviews and senses of self (why, no, I don't speak from experience, why would you ask such a thing ahaha).

Jiang-zongzhu and Zi Zhizhu got a lot of their own relationship difficulties and misunderstandings and conflicts and conflicting attempts to want the best for their children (and ward) tangled up in everything. I think if they'd ever been able to speak plainly, if they could manifest into the Ancestral Hall and speak to Jiang Cheng, they would say so.

Just as Jiang Cheng would have cause to be horrified by much of what Wei Wuxian believed about himself, I think Jiang Cheng's parents would have cause to be horrified by much of what Jiang Cheng believed. (I mean, and Wei Wuxian, probably.)

Anyway.

Jiang Cheng has plenty of reasons to aspire to those same ideals of sacrifice. And it's not just aspirations, either--we see him follow through.

He walked outside from that inn, saw Wei Wuxian in danger, and made a decision in the space of a single breath--a decision with full understanding, too. He knew he was giving up his entire life for Wei Wuxian's. He said goodbye in his head.

I would argue (and I'm sure I've said this before somewhere too) that his sacrifice was the purest example of this in the entire story.

Perhaps some of it is that many of Wei Wuxian's sacrifices are premeditated and just about all of them have alternative solutions that don't involve him just diving in and giving pieces of himself up.

That isn't to say that Wei Wuxian wouldn't see a sword aimed at Jiang Cheng and take the blow himself. But we never see him do that, exactly. As much as Jiang Cheng has internalised this ideal of Wei Wuxian's, he both encounters fewer of these situations and has other problem-solving tactics in his repertoire.

The way Jiang Cheng hates himself doesn't lead him to think of himself as disposable. I could get into a (very amateur) discussion of negative schemas formed in childhood and their various similarities and differences, and the different ways Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian's brains appear to work (Jiang Cheng sees himself as inferior, while Wei Wuxian willfully dehumanises himself in other ways), but basically, it's simply a different set of psychological issues.

But! When he is faced with the choice, Jiang Cheng absolutely dies for the ones he loves.

He loves his sect and his family, and he internalises love as sacrifice, and when it comes down to an extreme moment he chooses to die for them.

And then he doesn't die.

And then the war happens.

Jiang Cheng's Growth

There are a lot of reasons for Jiang Cheng to grow in this area, and I think it starts with inheriting the sect.

(This leads to excellent thoughts about What If Wei Wuxian Had Somehow Become Sect Leader but that's an au for another day.)

If sect heir was a position full of responsibility and reputation management, how much more so is zongzhu? Jiang Cheng is suddenly responsible for all these people. Whether he's good enough or not doesn't even matter. The job is there and it's inescapable and he's the only one there to do it.

I'm absolutely sure he still has all kinds of inferiority shit he's dealing with by post-timeskip and he only just gets to touch on some pieces of resolution by the end of the story, with the one person still in the world who would even know anything about the life that gave it to him.

Jiang Cheng has been responsible for people before, in small ways--night hunts and such, I'm sure, and he was certainly in charge of the Yunmeng Jiang disciples who went to Cloud Recesses. But being at the top of that hierarchy entirely is such a different matter, and he did so at a very young age and in a very fraught time.

The fact that he had to deal with all this new responsibility and duty to people more than his family and to causes greater than the first people in need he encounters is a huge perspective shift. Especially as a sect with nothing to give and no wiggle room where it comes not only to basic resources post-war, but to things like reputation and political standing. This is, of course, a huge facet to the conflict between him and Wei Wuxian (and the Wen remnants) at that point in the story.

But on a personal level it also speaks to the sacrifice thing. If Jiang Cheng sacrifices his life, he is not just sacrificing his own life anymore.

When he gave up his life for Wei Wuxian, he had not yet inherited. His parents were only barely gone. There was nothing to inherit. There was no surety of there ever being something to inherit ever again. Everything else was already gone. It was only the three of them, barely surviving, running for their lives. It was only him and Wei Wuxian in a street, and one of them had to die.

But once he inherits? He's a commander. He's a leader. He has all the knowledge and all the networking connections. He has the reputation. He has the social standing. He might still have a long way to go in developing his skills, but he has a natural leadership ability and he does have training appropriate to his station.

What happens if he personally sacrifices his life? What happens to all of that? What happens to everyone depending on him?

That's not very satisfying, very epic-worthy. That's not very dramatic or romantic. It's gradual, and messy, that kind of change and realisation. Becoming that kind of person. Making choices based in that reality. Deciding that you do not belong to yourself.

And I think it really comes to a head when his siblings die.

I think it comes to a head personally. Not just in his role as Jiang-zongzhu. We don't see Jiang Cheng choose not to die, in as many words. But we certainly see him choose to live.

Or, perhaps, we see the evidence of that choice.

Jiang Cheng could have faded away. He could have started delegating all his responsibilities, gotten help from other sects, trained up a replacement. He could have made such things necessary by getting more and more reclusive. He could have pulled a Qingheng-Jun.

Hell, with a-jie gone already, he could have just said fuck this and followed Wei Wuxian off that cliff, and if you don't think he wonders about that sometimes--at least at first--then we have very different interpretations of Jiang Cheng as a person.

And no, none of those are sacrifice. But at some point, he still chose to do the opposite.

He chose every day to live for his sect, to keep growing it into something powerful and secure. He took that vow that he made and he fucking stuck to it.

And he chose to live for Jin Ling.

I don't half wonder if that was a bigger driving force at first than anything else.

Jiang Cheng could absolutely have left Jin Ling to be raised by his Jin family in the absence of his parents and fucked off to hide away in Yunmeng and had nothing to do with him. He could have done a lot of things, let himself develop in a lot of ways, unhealthy ways.

But he so very clearly did not.

Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng have a close relationship. Jin Ling defers to Jiang Cheng, is answerable to him on night hunts and beyond them. It's never questioned why he's basically just in the Yunmeng Jiang party by himself. Yunmeng Jiang disciples answer to Jin Ling in turn, follow his orders without question in the absence of their zongzhu. It's a Yunmeng Jiang disciple who hands Xianzi off to Jin Ling outside the Guanyin Temple in Yunping, and Jiang Cheng is intimately familiar with Xianzi's commands and is apparently a trusted person to give them (which, we find out, Jin Guangyao is not.)

As much as Jiang Cheng is not good at saying what he means, and especially after everything he's been through his softer bits have grown harder and harder carapace around them, Jin Ling never seems to misunderstand what Jiang Cheng means. They snipe at each other and snark and bitch and roll their eyes and so clearly love each other.

Jiang Cheng's love for Jin Ling shines brightly the second you know how to interpret Jiang Cheng, and Jin Ling absolutely does. Jin Ling's trust in Jiang Cheng is incredible.

Jin Ling is practically Yunmeng Jiang's heir, and practically Jiang Cheng's son.

That sort of thing doesn't just happen, because you're related or whatever. In fact, the story goes out of its way to present blood relations not being close, especially father figures.

Which means from a young age, Jin Ling knew Jiang Cheng's love. Jiang Cheng, struggling young zongzhu of a struggling newly-rebuilt sect, who just lost everything, barely more than a kid himself, figured out he needed to not only stay alive, but needed to live for Jin Ling.

He needed to teach him everything, needed to figure out how to be the best of his own father and mother, and the best of Jin Ling's father and mother, and live up to every lost bit of love Jin Ling should have had, and try, and try, no matter how unworthy or unfit or inferior he felt. No matter how much he fucked up and didn't know. No matter how much grief he was dealing with. No matter how many people hated him and how few friends he had. No matter how much there was to do. No matter how overwhelming the endless tide of days, of forever in front of him felt, horrible and empty of everyone that had come before. Jiang Cheng still chose to live.

He carved out that new life because of love. He didn't die for anyone, and he didn't die for anyone's memory. He lived.

"I never thought I'd be worth the work it would take to piece myself together," but he did, for his sect, his disciples, his family's legacy, his siblings' memories, and Jin Ling.

And, as a bonus knife, the things we see him chide Jin Ling the most for? Are specifically things Wei Wuxian would have done, and even things he would have done in following him. Grandstanding, not asking for help when needed, wandering off alone, making unnecessary sacrifices.

Wei Wuxian's Growth

That brings us to Wei Wuxian coming back. And, well, the boy still has a long way to go. He goes through a lot of kinds of growth post-timeskip. And I think this is one of them.

For one, he's already fucking died once.

Honestly, almost ironically, that death wasn't even fully a sacrifice. Perhaps in some ways it was, in some ways he internalised that it was. But regardless, after all his sacrificing, he finally died. And, much like Jiang Cheng's sacrifice, it didn't stick. He woke back up. Albeit 16 years later.

Now, he wasn't keen on dying, or he maybe would have just gone back. But that doesn't mean he'd suddenly decided to live for anyone rather than die for them.

And, indeed, we still see that side of him come back with him in full force. He starts off by deciding he will just live this new life without Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan altogether.

I think, for Wei Wuxian, this matter of sacrifice ends up being tied into a lot of other pieces of his growth--none of it happens independently of each other.

First, he is shown and told that he is wanted. That's the first thing. He cannot simply go on without inconveniencing/endangering/roping anyone else into his shit because his ties to other people don't work in only one direction. He is wanted.

Lan Zhan wants to be at his side, has not forgotten him, and loves him unwaveringly. That is a huge first step, right there at the beginning, when Lan Zhan grabs his hand, and they make eye contact, and by the time Lan Zhan turns to look away Wei Wuxian is grabbing his hand back desperately and that pretty much says everything it needs to right there.

The idea that Wei Wuxian can act at all without having any negative affect on anyone tied to him is something we see even outside the concept of sacrifice--how many times before his death, even before his defection, do we see him say things like "you can insult me, but don't involve the Yunmeng Jiang sect" like. Like. Wei Wuxian please. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

So I think him realising that other people will willingly be tied to him and there's nothing he can do about it, that his actions affect the people who care about him all the time, is something he still has to learn/relearn even after everything that happened leading up to his death. I think, in particular, Wei Wuxian realising that it's not just his mistakes and fuckups that affect people, but his intentional actions, too. Like sacrifices. Even if they're at his own expense. Because people care and that's okay and good.

Lan Zhan drives that home with things like noticing that Wei Wuxian has transferred Jin Ling's curse to his own leg, and then insisting on carrying him.

Lan Zhan notices. Lan Zhan cares. This act of sacrifice does not end with Wei Wuxian suffering. It has cascading effects, even something this small. It is, perhaps, more effective a lesson on a small scale with fewer complexities woven in, than it would be on the larger scale issues he dealt with before his death.

This idea that his sacrifices affect people beyond him is carried through the rest of the story, too, from the way everyone seems to fret about him after the Burial Mounds and Lan Sizhui runs to hold him, down to the fact that he has to answer for how his sacrifice of his golden core to Jiang Cheng affects Jiang Cheng. Both the absence of his own golden core being a catalyst for a lot of other shit, and finding out about the core transfer actually fucking Jiang Cheng up. Which, it turns out, Wei Wuxian kind of knew would happen, he just thought he could get away with not dealing with it if he kept the secret better.

Wei Wuxian can't escape his sacrifices and his actions having an effect on those around him, the ones who care and the ones he cares about, or even the object of his sacrifice, and he really does have to have that hammered home.

He also deals with growth related to his pride and arrogance. He learns how to be weak, he learns how to have alternate forms of strength, he learns how to let others in, and let others stand with him.

Most of this is related to Lan Zhan, and I've already covered it at least somewhat in another meta, but it relates back to this, because those are two driving forces behind his sacrificial nature.

If Wei Wuxian is allowed to be weak, is allowed to hesitate, is allowed to go to others for help, is allowed to look for alternative solutions, that sets a better precedent for cutting down on the habitual self-sacrifice tendencies.

Additionally, he learns that others can and will stand with him in his sacrifices, when they are necessary.

Look at the way he pushes Lan Zhan away on the steps of Jinlintai, but Lan Zhan steps back toward him, and draws his sword, and declares his love before heaven and earth, saying in as many words that Wei Wuxian need not walk his path alone, and they fight together.

And the next time Wei Wuxian goes to sacrifice? In the Burial Mounds? He doesn't even think twice before volunteering Lan Zhan to stand with him. His entire plan revolves around the idea that Lan Zhan will stand with him--without even consulting Lan Zhan--and in doing so, they may be able to prevent Wei Wuxian from actually sacrificing his life.

Already we see him internalising a lot of that growth. He doesn't need to grandstand or prove himself; he doesn't care what everyone there thinks of him, and for the ones he does care about he is secure in their regard for him. He doesn't first attempt to sacrifice himself and be bait to draw the fierce corpses away while everyone including Lan Zhan runs off. He doesn't have to be convinced to accept Lan Zhan as part of his plan. He doesn't have to have Lan Zhan simply stay behind and then deal with the addition of him later.

Compare, if you will, the Xuanwu cave. Wei Wuxian absolutely expected everyone else to leave while he drew its attention, and Lan Zhan staying was not part of his original plan. Yes, later on they attacked the Xuanwu together, but that was different entirely. At first, he was just being bait to get everyone else to safety.

In the Burial Mounds? He's already worked Lan Zhan having his back into his plans.

It's still a sacrifice, but he's come a really long way about it.

So now that we've mitigated some of the sacrificial tendencies, modulated their effects on his choices, we come down to the "live for you instead of die for you" issue.

My positing that Wei Wuxian has reached this point by the end of the story has a lot more to do with having seen the patterns of his growth, watching the way he interacted with Jiang Cheng regarding the issue of the golden core transfer being revealed, watching the way he interacted with Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan in general evolve, and watching him allow himself to have more and more attachments by the end of the story. And getting the overall vibe that living is now important, and there are things to live for in this world now that he's back in it.

However, if I had to narrow it down to one moment to exemplify this, I would point to the moment where he's caught around the neck by Jin Guangyao.

Wei Wuxian absolutely knows that if Lan Zhan sheathes Bichen, they're all fucked. Lan Zhan could easily take everyone here who would fight him, but not if he sheathes his sword and seals his spiritual power. And at this point it's increasingly likely that if they let themselves be captured they're simply not going to make it out alive. None of them. No matter what Jin Guangyao says.

Lan Zhan's best chance for survival and Jin Guangyao's best chance at being brought to justice/captured are one and the same in this moment--Lan Zhan keeping his sword, and either taking Jin Guangyao down himself or escaping to go fetch the assembled sect leaders and such at Lotus Pier.

Wei Wuxian knows this. It's why he begs Lan Zhan to be okay with his death and to do this Right Thing anyway.

Lan Zhan is not, and does not.

I don't think Wei Wuxian is surprised by this, to be fair.

But he could have ensured it would happen. He could have ensured that Jin Guangyao would go down. He could have ensured, more importantly, that Lan Zhan lived. He could have prevented Lan Zhan from sheathing Bichen to begin with.

He could have sacrificed himself.

It would have been incredibly easy at that point. All he had to do was fight back instead of hold still. Jin Guangyao was not bluffing, probably, though he just as surely knew if Wei Wuxian died then he was next, he counted on everyone wanting Wei Wuxian alive more than they wanted him dead. So if Wei Wuxian had tried to fight back or escape, he would have died.

Jin Guangyao would have been shocked, very very briefly. The resulting chaos would have seen everyone in custody who needed to be. Perfect.

And, you know, Lan Zhan would have been once more Wei-Ying-less.

Wei Wuxian very notably does not make this sacrifice. Even if it means they get captured. Even if it means they likely die together instead of only one of them dying. Even if that math is terrible on the surface of it.

He doesn't make Lan Zhan watch him die again. He doesn't presume that his loss means nothing. He doesn't presume that his life is not worth it, that his sacrifice is worth it.

Wei Wuxian actively chooses to live. He chooses to live for Lan Zhan. For the chance that they will both find a way out, and if they don't, then they are together in this and that matters more.

And he keeps making that choice. At no point in the confrontation with Jin Guangyao, for all those hours and hours and hours of back and forth and monologuing in that damned temple, does Wei Wuxian try to grandstand or throw himself sacrificially into the mix in any way. He is always working with everyone there to whatever extent possible, to the ends that everyone (including people he cedes the political superiority to) decides upon. He releases ownership of the situation, of needing to fix the situation, of needing to fix the situation by giving himself up.

I've been writing this so long I'm starting to lose the threads of my own thoughts, but yeah.

By the end, I think Wei Wuxian learns a lot and grows a lot and finally hits the point that Jiang Cheng hit years and years prior.

"I never thought I'd be worth the work it would take to piece myself together," but he was confronted with the idea of it again and again until it had to stick, and so he did. For Lan Zhan, for Lan Sizhui, for Jin Ling, for the other juniors.

I do think there will always be some element of self-sacrifice to Wei Wuxian's character that remain unchanged. He is a caretaker and a fixer at the heart of him. He is a big brother and I think maturity has only expanded that trait. He's also notably not a leader, and to some extent he does belong to himself both more and less than he ever could before his death.

But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. And it doesn't negate him embracing the idea of living for the ones he loves, getting better for the ones he loves, and letting them keep him in their lives.

I'd like to think that this piece of character growth is another significant thing in favour of Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng being able to forge not just a healthy relationship but a healthier relationship post-canon than they may have ever had before, or at least in a very long time.

#you would not believe how long this took to write out #why am i like this #my meta #unedited #the untamed #the untamed meta #jiang cheng #jiang wanyin #wei ying #wei wuxian #sacrifice #i may or may not be accepting constructive criticism at this time #this whole thing was probably terribly redundant but i'm too lazy to reread it and edit

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baixueagain · 4 years

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I haven't read hp in a long time, so I may be wrong. But wasn't the thing about house-elves wanting to stay slaves also a critic of Hermione's behavior and how she thought that just she was doing the right thing in her mindset didn't mean it was the same thing for the people concerned, and that she was basically trampling over them to "enlighten" them?

Yeahhhh the house elf thing is...well, honestly I don’t actually think it’s nearly as bad as people say it is. The metaphor she’s using is (like the werewolf thing) insensitive and could’ve been handled way, way better, but the fundamental message of it isn’t actually that controversial or hideous.

First of all, there’s the whole idea that JKR invented a race of slaves. I’m leery of this statement, because throughout HP, especially in the early books when house elves are introduced, JKR plays a lot with classic folklore. House elves/fairies, while not being as well-known in America, are a pretty common trope in European and British folklore. There are dozens of stories and legends and folk tales about how people can leave out butter or other things for the spirits of the house (often elves or fairies), and that in exchange the spirits would clean and do other chores for you. So JKR picked that up and ran with it, and asked, okay, what if those stories were real, but wizards figured out a way to manipulate that traditional exchange into a form of exploitation?

JKR pretty clearly problematizes what’s happened to the house elves from the get-go when we meet Dobby. Those who treat elves as subservient and inherently lesser are consistently portrayed as straight up evil (Lucius Malfoy, the Ministry statue, etc). Harry isn’t actually that dismissive of Hermione’s views, either. He wrestles with it, too, and feels distinctly uncomfortable, but for some time he doesn’t really seem to know what else to do except to go along with it - which, while not a good thing, is a completely normal reaction for a young teenager to have when faced with that kind of situation. Furthermore, while in general house elves are “said” to be happy with their situation, the two major house elf characters (Dobby and Kreacher) are portrayed as distinctively unhappy about it from the moment of their introduction, though Kreacher has clearly internalised things. Even Sirius’s mistreatment of Kreacher is portrayed as a massive flaw in his character and a giveaway that he’s not exactly the perfect Cool Uncle Type that we originally see him as. Finally, don’t forget that one of the most triumphant moments of DH is Kreacher getting fed the fuck up with the way he’s been treated all his life and leading what amounts to a house elf revolution against those who would keep house elves completely and utterly subservient for the rest of time.

As for Hermione, IMO she’s portrayed as having her heart in the right place but going about things all wrong, to the point that her ignorance about the situation becomes comedic. Which...honestly, that comes across as a pretty apt criticism of the “saviour” types who really sincerely do want to fix the world but end up just talking over the people they’re trying to help - and ultimately pushing those people away.

JKR never actually questions whether or not slavery is a moral evil. What is questioned, however, is this: when someone in an unhappy situation says that they’re happy, how far can and should we go to help them without it becoming a violation of their consent and free will? And that’s not at all a new question in fantasy and sci-fi. Star Trek has asked it. Doctor Who has asked it. Even the Hitchhikers Guide books have asked it.

Example: I have women relatives who truly sincerely and whole-heartedly believe that women were put on this earth to be subservient to men. They were raised to believe this and have never questioned it. If you asked them if they’re happy, they’d say yes, and tbh, I believe them: they are lucky enough that the men they’ve married are legitimately kind and loving husbands. However, I still find their situation to be morally abhorrent and I fundamentally disagree with how they view femininity and marriage. So what can I do? I’ve had arguments with them about it, and they won’t budge. I’ve tried to expose them to literature on women’s liberation and they dismiss it. In fact, it’s only made them get defensive and dig in their heels, because they resented me telling them that their worldview was an unhealthy and wrong one. Who was I, after all, to tell them that they were wrong to be happy with their lives? Am I supposed to end their marriages by force and strong-arm them into feminism, or is that in and of itself a violation of their consent and free will?

There’s no easy answers to those questions. There never has been and never will be. And I think that’s what Rowling was attempting to wrestle with. Did she do it clumsily? Yes. Should she have chosen a different metaphor other than slavery? Very probably. Is it open to criticism? Yes again. Has she written other cringe-worthily bad and ignorant things into HP? Absolutely - Cho Chang is the shining example, IMO, though there are plenty more.

However, I also think it’s extremely disingenuous to paint the house elf plotline as promoting/condoning slavery, telling people that they should be content with their lot in life, or mocking those who try to challenge the status quo. That reading of HP ignores a metric shitload of evidence to the contrary, especially in the later books. And while I love literary criticism and think there’s plenty to be criticised in the HP books, this is one of those things that I truly do believe is not only unfair, but the product of extremely selective reading.

#jkr #jk rowling #house elves #harry potter #meta

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