#r/wby ensemble cast tag

[onewomancitadel]

I see. I'm going through the knightfall stuff now and maybe I'll try the fic as well if I'm looking for something to read. One more question though. If Ruby is purifying Cinder and Jaune is healing her then who is helping Oscar? From what I've seen you say in here Oscar and Cinder are supposed to be reflections of Jaune and Ruby right? and he's sort of got a curse as well. How does he fit into all this? How does he get fixed?

Haha, now you're getting more out of my wheelhouse because the Ozma curse solution is more imprecise, since it involves (likely) direct involvement of the brother gods. It's very likely that helping Cinder sets up Oscar, Salem and Ozma; this is all endgame stuff, by the way. It might be that both Oscar and Cinder seem doomed to their Dark Curses until it's averted.

Under my Reverse Ozlem tag I did establish that Penny's overall character arc reflects Ozma's, and Penny projecting her Aura to create a material form might give us some of the basis for what will happen with Ozma. I think it's very likely that the curse will be broken for Oscar. There's no way it isn't just because it's been made to seem so inevitable. If we go by his Little Prince influence (Oscar's V6-current outfit is The Little Prince's and there are a few other clear influences of it in his story--- in this example you can even see they've posed him the same way lol)

the prince may or may not be dead at the end, and that ambiguity is up to the reader depending what they want to believe in. Given that Oscar-Ozma can both be 'alive' and 'dead' - Oscar can be alive and Ozma dead - that might just fulfill the criteria. (Then again I'm not so certain that Ozma isn't the pilot, but I imagine Ruby/Oscar fans have more developed opinions than me on this front - and allusions are never exact and more tonally made to fit to the story, so maybe the prince survives and the pilot may or may not survive).

But the Ozlem resolution is really more than just Ozma and Salem because it involves the brother gods whom I don't believe to be in the right (really I think the fact we're supposed to empathise with Salem on some level is overlooked lol) and I might go so far as to speculate there's something off about the genie-gods of the Relics. But I would prefer to save that speculation for my own fanfic as opposed to here - not trying to make you read it, I just don't speculate on certain things because of what I'm writing lol, especially the exact Ozlem resolution.

But since we've been given what is effectively lore-building with the Aura with Penny (and essentially Ozma's entire arc including rebelling against the Brother of Light analogue) I do feel a bit more optimistic on predicting that front.

From what I've seen you say in here Oscar and Cinder are supposed to be reflections of Jaune and Ruby right?

Technically speaking Jaune is Oscar's Shadow and Cinder is Ruby's Shadow, so yes, effectively reflections for the sake of this discussion, though not quite in the order you put it. Part of why on this front I feel Jaune/Cinder is critical is because that is part of the major Ozma dilemma, and for solving Oscar's curse you've got to solve Ozma's ultimate task of stopping Salem. If Jaune/Cinder is the most literal realisation of their enmity that haunts the story, fixing that to more specifically help Oscar is pretty organic as well. This is sort of what I mean about the romance realising thematic ideas and serving character purpose which even ends up transcending Jaune/Cinder.

For what it's worth I also think Oscar as a role in getting Ruby to help Cinder, because as inevitable it may seem to me it's not so inevitable to the characters and is actually a major development.

My opinion on this topic is less passionate and more academic, so I am looking at it from a structural perspective. I do like that Oscar's figuring out how to handle the bad wizard in his head and beginning to empathise with him though, and I think that's good portents for the direction with Salem.

If you have any more questions I am happy to answer them, especially if you want me to explore Jungian storytelling in more detail or summarise it succinctly. I don't think it's totally crucial though, it's just a way of discussing the mechanical ideas in the story that are realising the thematic ones. (If it seems mildly esoteric, it really isn't, and it's very helpful for writing an ensemble cast).

I hope that answers your questions.

Regarding my fic, you are welcome to read it (just spare me if you don't like it (:) though I should add the caveat I have been told by my readers it's somewhat polarising if you are expecting it to be like other predominant R/WBY fic. Which can be a good thing or a bad thing. I mostly just mention that my fanfic is more my space for exploring ideas because I think that's where some of the best emotional stuff can happen as opposed to only in analysis posts.

Hope you have a great day and thanks for stopping by.

[onewomancitadel]

I think the real reason people fight so hard against the idea of Jaune saving Cinder is because they're deathly afraid of Jaune being given a big role. They really cant stand the idea that he might do something or might be important. I already see people talking about how they think RT can and should abandon him on the island in V9(comments on youtube). They would rather he quietly exit the story than do anything meaningful.

As you say 'real reason' I'm going to quibble: I don't think that's the real reason. That's one reason.

I don't think I'd quite frame it as Jaune saving Cinder but Jaune helping her. Sometimes people get the wrong idea with the former.

I'm also going to assume this is once again on the topic of the recent person who made look for Peep Show memes, in which case my answer takes a very specific bent, in that a) assuming them to be a good faith reasonable actor is a mistake, b) in this very specific instance I don't think it's about Jaune having something to do in the story (generally a yes from me) and c) I am a bit exhausted of the topic, so please forgive me if I repeat myself here at times, and d) you can't really divorce Cinder's redemption arc altogether from the issue.

There are several generally controversial issues at play here: redemption arcs, and the issues with those therein; Cinder's character in general (selfish bitch who needs to die); the overall thematic thrust of R/WBY (I don't even know where to begin); and finally, if you go along with the idea of a redemption arc, Cinder not being a useless character, understanding the basic themes, then you encounter the Jaune problem.

I just want to note that there are other people who aren't me who have written about Cinder and the question of a redemption arc and he's usually not included, or he's accessory to Ruby and/or the rest of team JNR. I recognise a lot of names who are into the idea of Cinder's redemption and aren't receptive and/or interested in the idea of Knightfall or don't like the idea of romance intertwined with a redemption arc. So I actually don't know if people taking issue with me for Knightfall (as in, that troll) are doing so because they don't like the idea of Cinder's redemption and Jaune actively involved or because they want Jaune paired up with someone else since he's the team bicycle. Therefore, in the latter case, Cinder's apparent evilness is kind of cursory, and whatever needed refutation is employed (too evil/mean/horrible/bad for children/toxic/killed Han Solo etc.). Or, of course, maybe someone just hates both characters. Lol

I do agree that there's a persistent issue certain constituents have with Jaune carrying a purpose in the story. I have written a lot about that under my Jaune Arc tag and my Cindemption tag. I really don't know any way his character makes sense unless this is the thing he's meant for. If people think that he's meant to kill Cinder, then there was literally no point to any of his character.

Something I really want to stress is that I am very cognisant of R/WBY being an ensemble cast show, and that means a) I know this isn't the Jaune and Cinder show but also b) if we're looking at all the characters and what they need to be doing in the story, tying up Jaune and Cinder's character arcs is a really neat way to give him something important to do which is thematically resonant. He's not going to have a dramatic final confrontation with Salem, because he's already going to have that with Cinder.

I prefer to look at things from an intertwined structural/thematic perspective. That's the type of thing I'm always fascinated by and it's why I really enjoy Jungian or monomythic storytelling, because you get a marriage of those elements (and a lot of character-driven storytelling). So my analysis is going to be rooted in the emotional (I think a redemption arc and romance is very moving) I also think the redemption arc/romance solves a lot structurally and thematically (Reverse Ozlem in particular).

So there's absolutely no way I could see Jaune staying in the Special World. (I know what the name is but I don't really want to tag this for spoilers). It's the katabasis point of the monomyth, it's where you go down to receive forbidden knowledge and then come back with it. If anything I have sort of contended the fact he's there means something special will happen, whether at worst it means we're dragged back into the Pyrrha storyline (I doubt this, for a post I'm going to make later) or because of something else might happen. You can see me discuss that more under my V9 speculation tag. Of course we never know where it's really going, and I can't control if they subvert it, but people who think he's going to say down there are just being vindictive and please don't take YouTube comments seriously. I do like complaining about them, but they aren't to be worried about. (It's also important to remember that whiny people online create whiny spaces and are very loud. Sometimes YouTube can be good for a feeling of the General Audience and sometimes not).

Sort of what I was working towards with the Cinder redemption arc married to Jaune is that I don't... know there are other blogs that write about her redemption arc in an explicitly romantic context lol. So I don't know where people are coming from or why they are taking issue with me in particular, it's why I kind of assume someone taking issue with Cindemption isn't only doing so for Jaune reasons - particularly because I've already seen these problems with the question of redemption arcs played out. Over. And. Over. And. Over. Especially the idea of romance at all being involved lol.

Jaune is one part of the problem. He also has those issues of not being liked/not making sense because they think he's got to be some kill death machine or he's getting in the way of the Real Story just like Cinder/Vomit Boy/there's no way a thematically appropriate romance could happen it just needs to be with Best Girl. I swear to God if anybody says Best Girl near me I'm going to break something. Instant block if anybody tries it.

I've also gone on record many times saying that given both Jaune and Cinder come from nothing and share such similar fandom reception they actually make a lot of sense together but what do I know lol.

Thanks for your ask anon. I think you're underestimating the issue of Cinder's redemption arc and why it's, er, a complicated issue and potentially offputting, but I otherwise agree involving Jaune makes it even moreso. As I said, I know there are others who think her redemption arc will only involve platonic relationships or characters who are not Jaune/whom Jaune is accessory to, but I don't think the honest troll is coming from that angle at all.

Everybody has manifold motivations and we can only generalise based on trends and what we assume to be each other's backgrounds. I mean, Jaune helping Cinder to some people may not even necessarily engender romance - I actually just realised, whilst writing this, that I assumed you agree with me that it does, but it may be that you don't. So you see, it's somewhat hard to parse sometimes. I'm going a bit cross-eyed, but let me summarise the issues: Cinder; Cinder's redemption arc; themes are for primary school book reports; Jaune.

Sometimes the issue is as simple as romance is for dumb dumb stupid girls who know nothing

and why would romance serve a thematic purpose etc. I have no idea what Blake/Yang is doing or Ozlem is doing etc. etc. why would Jaune or Cinder get to have anything etc. etc. etc.