#romancegate

[opinated-user]

Just to vent real quick— Lily’s weird approach to sapphic content makes me feel…kinda ashamed? Not ashamed of being a queer woman, ashamed of being so passionate about writing sapphic content, consuming it, shipping girls with each other, and just…being a fan of content that makes me feel seen! Like I wanna fawn over how Lady Dimitrescu is most definitely a lesbian, but there’s those weird voices of Lily being almost downright fetishizing of sapphic material that I worry I’m like her

anon, i want to be extremely clear that when i call out LO for fetishizing lesbians, i never mean just liking sapphic content or writing it. i say that she fetishizes lesbians specifically because she actually does, by putting them in a weird pedestal where she thinks lesbian love is the "purest one of all", which puts all other kinds of queer love as impure somehow, when she refuses to see or support any kind of queer content unless it's a very specific of sapphic one* and her insistence that her ships where there's still power imbalance, abuse or toxicity are treated as "wholesome and pure" simply by virtue of being between two cis lesbians. it's not even about sapphic women, it's all lesbians, all the time, for everything, and it's always with this weird benevolent sexism attached to it. *meaning between cis lesbians. remember the whole romancegate disaster where LO tried to scam free stories out of her audience by putting very exclusionary rules that nobody liked. to this day i'm convinced the only reason LO ever watched SU in the first place was because of the promise of cis lesbians, and was angry when it turns out that the show had an actual plot beyond that.

as long you do know that sapphic women are just people, not idealized perfect angels to grace the earth, and don't try to put other queer people down to try to prop them up, then you have literally nothing to do with whatever is that LO's deal is.

[thelastjedis]

GUYS

[starwarsnonsense]

Some long thoughts on a few #Gates

Right, I’m back and plan on reopening my asks soon-ish. Before I do that, though, I just want to address a few of the big dramas that unfolded in my absence. This is mainly so that I won’t end up addressing these questions through various ask replies, so if I don’t respond to your message it’s probably because I’ve said the last thing I’m going to say about it here. Onward!

On #RomanceGate

As we have previously established thanks to a tweet from David Kamp with the full, unedited transcript of the excerpt of the interview pertinent to romance, the published Vanity Fair article did not fully reflect what Rian was actually trying to say about the question of romance in Episode VIII. The Vanity Fair article said this:

FIVE THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THE LAST JEDI

A big, central-to-the-plot romance. For all the fan-fiction fantasies of “Reylo” (an imagined union of Daisy Ridley’s Rey and Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren) or “Stormpilot” (the same, for John Boyega’s ex-stormtrooper Finn and Oscar Isaac’s pilot Poe Dameron), Johnson says that The Last Jedi offers “no one-to-one equivalent of the Han-to-Leia, burning, unrequited love. In our story, that’s not a centerpiece.”

And this is what was actually said between Kamp and Johnson in the interview:

Now, what initially seemed to rule out any inclusion of romance in The Last Jedi actually suggests something quite different - Rian seems to be saying that he was keen to include a big, sweeping romance, but that when it came to it the characters didn’t seem to be in the right place for that to happen. He doesn’t at all rule out subtle traces of romance or flirtation (as Kamp highlights in his tweet), thus the classic ‘wait and see’-style response. 

It is also very important to point out that the references to Reylo and StormPilot were clearly Kamp editorialising. While terms like ‘imagined’ and ‘fan-fiction fantasies’ sting to anyone familiar with all of the misogynistic BS female fans have to deal with for daring to be interested in the human relationships in these stories, as I see it the references to popular ships are simply there to provide context for the mainstream audience and boost SEO rankings. Rian Johnson has been very emphatic about distancing himself from Kamp’s phrasing, and the full quote makes it clear that no specific relationships were raised in the context of the original interview.

So, while I still think we need to be cautious and keep expectations for an overt Reylo romance in The Last Jedi low (as Rian says, there is no central romance plot in his film), I certainly think that the full quote should relieve the anxiety that love and attraction won’t be in play to some extent. Although I don’t think that we’re going to get a Reylo kiss (that’s my opinion re. The Last Jedi - come back to me after December to get my thoughts on Episode IX), it clearly isn’t out of the question that The Last Jedi will progress Rey and Kylo so that they are ready for a full-blown romance in the next film. I can’t stress enough that Rey and Kylo end The Force Awakens on different sides, with Kylo having killed his father and Rey having just slashed Kylo’s face open. They both have huge personal journeys to go on (Rey has to come into her own in the Force, and Kylo has to wake up to Snoke’s evil and show remorse for his terrible mistakes) before they can truly go on a journey together. Essentially, to progress from the current state of affairs to a consummated love affair in the space of a single movie would, to put it mildly, be pushing it. 

Speaking for myself, I would be ecstatic if The Last Jedi simply shows Rey and Kylo developing empathy and perhaps even compassion for each other. Rey has already defeated Kylo in a duel, so their journey together going forward won’t simply be one of antagonism - as J.J. said in his commentary (which was recorded after he had read the script for The Last Jedi), Kylo is “a character who [Rey’s] going to have a very interesting relationship with moving forward”. In short, I have no fear that the dynamic between Rey and Kylo Ren is going to remain static or be less important going forward. Rey and Kylo are crucial to each other’s stories, and we have every reason to believe that Rian is honouring that. 

On #PlotGate

These are the tweets that started the famous #PlotGate:

Now, this actually didn’t worry me at all. But why would I - one of the people who has written thousands of words analysing the minutia of The Force Awakens - be unconcerned by the suggestion that Rian could do whatever the hell he wanted in The Last Jedi? Why am I not freaking out when there doesn’t seem to be a plan for the trilogy?

Well, the simple answer is that I’m not alarmed because these kinds of sentiments are far from new. From the very beginning, the narrative has always been that each filmmaker has a considerable degree of freedom to tell the story they want to tell. For a great explanation of how the early development of The Last Jedi worked, see this quote from J.J. Abrams from November 2015 (particularly the bold bits):

The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman, the producer of VIII. They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. I showed Rian an early cut of the movie, because I knew he was doing his rewrite and prepping. And as executive producer of VIII, I need that movie to be really good. Withholding serves no one and certainly not the fans. So we’ve been as transparent as possible. Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well. But you’re right—that will be his movie; he’s going to do it in the way he sees fit. He’s neither asking for nor does he need me to oversee the process.

There are endless quotes from J.J. and Kathleen Kennedy supporting this picture, and I think this is exactly as it should be. Rian is not making The Last Jedi in a vacuum - he is building it on the foundation set by The Force Awakens, and had a say on the development and presentation of that film so that it would weave seamlessly into his movie. Rian even reiterated this sentiment himself in the main Vanity Fair article on The Last Jedi:

J.J. and Larry and Michael set everybody up in a really evocative way in VII and started them on a trajectory.

Rian is insistent on stressing his independence as a filmmaker at every stage because people are keen to paint him as a slave to the Walt Disney Company’s whims. At every turn, he has to deal with people assuming that The Last Jedi will repeat the trick played by The Force Awakens by mirroring its famous and beloved antecedent - for The Force Awakens this was Star Wars, and people expect it to be The Empire Strikes Back for The Last Jedi. Understandably, Rian wants to stress that The Last Jedi is his baby - it’s infused with his own creativity rather than studio notes and nostalgia. 

But, at the same time, that doesn’t mean that Rian can do whatever the hell he wants. I can almost guarantee that Rian would have received furious correctional notes if he had tried to pitch a story where Rey Rey Binks died in the second act. There will be certain strands established in The Force Awakens that The Last Jedi will nurture and evolve, and Rian will be taking pre-existing characters and relationships and building on them further. As Pablo appeased an anxious fan on Twitter:

In short, there absolutely is collaboration - between the individual filmmakers, and between the filmmakers and Lucasfilm. Rian is free to tell the story he wants to tell, but that story has a baseline in The Force Awakens and also has a responsibility to establish a platform for Colin Trevorrow to build on with Episode IX. The filmmakers are talking to each other, and there is absolutely collaboration and handoff between them so that these film will ultimately make sense as a trilogy as well as on their own terms. 

In other words, I really don’t see much to worry about. I have seen nothing but praise for the script for The Last Jedi, and Rian’s filmography amply demonstrates his talent as both a writer and a director. 

I’m as excited for The Last Jedi as I ever was, so I hope I’ve been able to put some people’s minds to rest with this. Bring on December!

[sleemo]

Let's relax

First, fandom blew up when Vanity Fair published a post saying there was no reylo and stormpilot romance in The Last Jedi.

… Later, Rian Johnson clarified and writer David Kamp shared his transcript to show that, in context, Rian didn’t rule out romance/flirtation—only romance in the style of Han and Leia being the centerpiece.

Next, it was reported in a spanish article that Pablo Hidalgo (during a comic con in Chile) confirmed that Luke and Leia would have a reunion in the next movie.

… Later Pablo tweeted that no, something was lost in translation and what he meant was that they reunited for the Vanity Fair shoot.

Now we’re dealing with #plotgate whereby Rian Johnson said there was “no mapped story beyond Force Awakens”, contradicting what Kathleen Kennedy said in another interview.

What will inevitably follow is a deluge of tweets from fans to Rian/Pablo/the story group demanding answers and reassurance that the trilogy is indeed following some set course, even with the amount of creative leeway that directors are given…

See where I’m going with this? After all the -gates that’s happened and drama over the past week, we should know by now not to overreact when we hear bad news. Context is important.

Haters overreacted when Adam didn’t return John’s hug on set, even when John laughed it off (and Ford responded to his hug the same way). Fanboys overreacted when Mark Hamill said he wasn’t happy with the direction of Luke’s character, even when he shortly admitted that he was glad to be wrong about it.

Try not to be those people. The film is in good hands. Please don’t harass the actors, directors, and others involved in this trilogy.

[obi-wan-ken00b]

we reylos are now like

[emperorren]

some thoughts by a long term multifandom-dwelling, meta-enthusiast shipper who has been countless times baited, disappointed, lied to, and kicked in the face by writers and showrunners backpedaling and boycotting their own narrative, taking impossibly stupid decisions, and being overall dumb as fuck:

“canon” is a non-entity. or at the very least a fluctuating notion, especially in the case of huge franchises (think of m*rvel). canon is incessantly rewritten, challenged, distorted, contradicted by new material. think of the ha n-leia romance, how it was a happily ever after at the end of the original trilogy. think of it now. there are old fans who utterly rejected the new trilogy as something essentially extraneous to the star wars story; for them, han and leia are still living their HEA, han is still alive, ben solo was never born, and nothing bad happened. This remains true for them as long as they ignore the new material, whose canon validity is disputable, if you’re a “purist”. These characters aren’t real, they are the product of someone’s imagination, and literally the only thing that separates your canon from THE canon is that the latter is imagined by someone who happens to be in charge of the commercial version of story. When none of this is real, several things can be true at the same time.

i’ve come to terms with the fact that shipping as we intend it doesn’t operate on the same level of mainstream storytelling. Mainstream storytelling is usually black/white and pretty straightforward; shipping exists in the margins and between the lines. For most mainstream writers, “romance” has a very narrow meaning. Very specific stuff has to happen to create “romance” (kisses, sex, googly eyes. “I love you” “I know”). Shipping doesn’t need those things. The shipper gaze is inherently transformative. The real essence of shipping is taking things that aren’t intended to be romantic, and RUNNING WITH IT, changing them, developing them, making them romantic in a way that the wider audience wouldn’t understand, or wouldn’t have the patience to follow in depth.

this is why we saw things as the interrogation and the duel and our brain wheels were immediately set in motion to come up with a million exciting scenarios. If we had seen a romance unequivocally blossoming between these characters, most of us (me included) wouldn’t be so drawn to this pairing.

some of us don’t even like mainstream romance. When people are like “huh, why do you ship this crack pairing instead of the canon one?”, well, this is the reason. Some of us feel a sort of disconnection from standard romantic narratives (and that’s because they are usually written by straight, cis, male writers, and designed to appeal to a generic and primarily straight, cis, male fanbase with little imagination. star wars, I’m afraid, makes no exception.)

because of the above, and because the perception of what qualifies as romantic is deeply subjective, it makes even less sense to talk about “canon romance”. 

I can see two characters holding each other’s gaze for 10 seconds as more romantic than two characters having a long make out session. I can hear a “forgive me, rey” uttered in a mouthful of blood at the end of ix and read it as more romantic than a kiss. Get what I mean?

Lots of us, however, care for those kisses and for an explicit validation. It’s okay, of course. It’s completely okay and natural to want that to happen.

but, again, experience has taught me not to pin all my hopes on THAT. Thing is, the canon story isn’t under our control. It just isn’t. It’s in the hands of a bunch of professional writers we don’t know personally, who do this as a job, who might or might not be emotionally invested in the story they’re telling, who’ll move on new projects as soon as they wrap up this one, and who - i repeat - approach this stuff with a professional attitude (whether they’re good at it or not, it’s another issue), not an emotional one.

what is under our control is how we handle our fandom experience. The ship is ours, and we make what we want with it. Fanart, fanfiction, meta, headcanons. They gave us the basic bricks, we create the building. None of this is less valid than what happens in Rian Johnson’s or Colin Trevorrow’s head. They just happen to have a higher budget. At the end of the day, though, they’re creating a huge toy machine that we’re going to use as we like. 

the biggest ships EVER, the real fandom behemoths, are usually the ships that “never happened”. Why? because no male writer ruined them because their stories were not completed, and it’s a natural human instinct to want to complete a story. Which means fandom tends to gravitate, by default, towards those pairings that weren’t given closure, or were treated unfairly, or had a lot of sexual tension but no resolution in canon.  

I see a lot of (understandable) anxiety over what I’ll call “the j*hnlock fiasco* and LET ME TELL YOU ONE THING:

YES, the TJLC turned out to be a bunch of crap, but in the end, who ended up living in the same house, taking care of a child, and being FOREVER BROS? As someone who witnessed the whole thing from the sidelines, with no dog in this fight, I have zero doubt that Sh*rlock/Watson is, has always been, and was confirmed to be the central relationship of that show, and of that verse in general. The conspiracy theorists fooled themselves (and caused a lot of harm to both their followers, and those who disagreed), because they made it unnecessarily complicated, and pinned their whole understanding of “canon” on something very specific that they were repeatedly told wouldn’t happen. but regular shippers? I know a couple, and they were satisfied with what they got. (frankly, I loved the ending of Sh*rlock, because it left things open for EVERY shipper. I would LOVE for SW to pull a number like that. I wouldn’t feel cheated, at all.)

meta is great. as i said, I’m a meta enthusiast. But please remember that even the greatest meta is nothing but an attempt to make sense of things that remain largely outside of our purview, with limited information, no access to what is in the making, and no confirmation that the writers are actually as competent as said meta needs them to be. Enjoy the speculation. Don’t marry yourself to one. Be a speculation whore. No commitment, no regrets. Worst case scenario, it’ll be excellent fanfiction fodder. 

none of this is an admission that *re/ylo won’t happen in canon* or an encouragement to stop believing it will. This is simply my attitude towards shipping IN GENERAL, and—after countless disappointments—I though it might be helpful for others, too.

remember: 

in december, we’ll see these assholes battling AGAIN, and being intense again, and we’ll be obsessing over inane details and speculating and dissecting microexpressions and shit EXACTLY LIKE WE’VE BEEN DOING SO FAR.

sure, a lot of these things we obsess over might be completely accidental (it’s always good to keep it in mind)—but that’s part of the fun, in fact, it’s the WHOLE POINT OF SHIPPING.

TO CLARIFY:

(because I’ve seen some bizarre interpretations of this post)

while the shipping fanbase might be predominantly female and/or queer, this isn’t a rule. Contrary to what some media outlets and popular forums believe, SHIPPING ISN’T A GENDERED ACTIVITY, and I, for one, am ENDLESSLY PISSED AND FRUSTRATED at the constant, blatant misogyny and gatekeeping with which shipping and fanfiction are treated in mainstream fandom circles. The shipping fanbase is an extremely diverse group, composed by anyone with a more transformative approach to fandom (which isn’t in an either/or relationship with the curative approach, mind), anyone who, for whatever reason, might feel dissatisfied with or underrepresented by mainstream narratives, especially the very simplistic ones we normally see in blockbusters. At no point this post wants to reinforce sexist assumptions about shipping and fanfiction as inherently *female*. 

what I’m also NOT saying, is that we should just passively accept this divide between what we WANT to see and what mainstream fiction gives  us; that we should just suck it up and stay in our lane. No, fam, I’m just presenting the way things (I think) are in blockbuster fiction, and saying that SW is (probably) no different in that respect. But we should definitely fight to change this status quo, and make demands for more diverse, inclusive, non-standardized romantic narratives.

[psy-kylo-gy]

Why the Reylos shouldn't be worried and why the rest of the fandom *should* be

Okay guys... Most Reylos I know are fairly realistic and didn't expect "romance" in this film. Rey & Kylo have to become allies or at least awkward semi-allies on the same page before they have a chance to be together. This will not be in TLJ, I've said this for many months in several posts. The Reylo dynamic was established in TFA and that wasn't "imagined" or any other bullshit. The mysterious connection and "very interesting relationship going forward" pretty much solidifies Reylo as a complex pair. PLEASE don't be discouraged and leave the ship family, we really aren't in anymore danger than we were two days ago. Reylo itself demands that you take it as realistically as possible *because* it is a complex pair with many layers, twists and turns. I absolutely was NOT expecting romance and would honestly be upset if they even tried to throw romance in there without nourishing it first. The writer of that article put in his own two cents--including the "imagined" part. Rian never quoted either ship and never said Reylo was "imagined" and as far as I'm concerned there is MUCH more that points to civil/same page Reylo in this film than romance, so that biased as hell writer didn't really do anything except help tell my fellow Reylos better than I could that the romance thing isn't going down in TLJ as a CENTRAL plot point. No one said anything about no subtle romances or anything. All Rian said is there will be no HanLeia or Anidala type romance. THAT'S ALL. I am still expecting subtle Reylo and slightly less subtle Finnr*se. The worst thing about the Vanity Fair articles so far? The absolute worst thing is finding out that this trilogy had NO CONCRETE VISION before filming TFA. Rian blatantly says they told him to do whatever he wanted. This just seems so utterly irresponsible to me. This is a huge deal. As a film school graduate who has a few non-professional short films under her belt, I can say that making my own three 15-minute shorts, writing my own scripts, directing them, editing them, and finding my crews and actors etc was SUCH an ordeal. Making a multi-billion trilogy?!? Without a concrete vision for your franchise?!? This really scares me. Really REALLY scares me. You can knock me over with a stick, that's how shocked I am about this. Knowing that nothing is set it in stone--that's what the fandom should truly be worried about, imo. I still trust Rian and his vision for TLJ... I think it will be a great movie no matter where it takes us. I'm much more worried about Episode IX, especially since Leia's role will be reduced or cut out completely. That film comes out less than two years from now and I'm already so antsy about it :/ So tl;dr... Reylo being romantic endgame, at this moment, is still a possibility. It has not been debunked whatsoever. TLJ was never meant to be the romantic chapter, it is the middle chapter of an potentially epic enemies-to-friends-to-soulmates story. The question is really how much will Colin want to change? Will be want to go in a different direction? Will he want to continue with a nuanced pair falling in love? Will he kill Kylo off since Leia won't be able to have a part in the redemption story they had planned? PLEASE leave Rian alone about all this, stop badgering him about stuff he obviously can't really discuss at length. TLJ is a wrap and it's not at all what we should truly be worrying about. The story is all the matters and that's what I'm rooting for. We need to support Rian and Colin and not treat them like they're "ruining" our experiences because it is not our story to tell, nor is it their fault that our dear Carrie passed away. Believe it or not, there ARE more important things than Star Wars and we need to respect that.

[alikssepia]

I'm immensely saddened by #romancegate. Yeah, I know, I've reblogged all these wise metas on why Reylo is still ok and my reason tells me many things why nothing has been debunked, but I've still got my mind set on the things I'm indifferent to and which will obviously fill the film instead of a central romance. On the emotional level, I’m destroyed.

Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Finn, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Rose, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, Paige, a bit of Rey, a bit of Kylo, a bit of Poe, a bit of Snoke, a bit of Luke, a bit of Leia, a bit of new characters. The end.

What a drag. Well, Rian, you had your chance to make people see the movie dozens of times. You might have started a compelling love story. Not interested? Me neither.

[opinated-user]

I heard in this blog that lily is aphobic, Could I see how? since she's now mention sex repulsed people and asexuals in her anti kink discourses

if you had read this blog then you'd know why already, but assuming this is still being asked in good faith. off the top of my head: -disrespecting canon ace/aro characters. Elethyn is an ace character that Lizzy made and LO comissioned to have SA by dogs behind Lizzy's back. she ships Lilith from the toh with Hooty, a bird like demon creature. see a pattern of her putting these ace women in sexual situations with non human creatures? -for years she didn't tag her nsfw content until she was nagged enough to do it. for years she has openly spoken about her sex life, her sexual practices and kinks without any warning. three times this woman was stripped on youtube without a proper warning. even after supposedly getting over her kinks because of the miraculous work of her supposed therapist, she still talks incredibly gross and vomiting inducing sexual jokes involving underage characters. this is the same person who said she wanted her brownfacing avatar to be sexualized while she talks about cartoons for children. this is not a woman that has ever cared about people uncomfortable with sex or didn't consent to be a witness to it. -the only ace character in pokemadhouse that doesn't represent a real person is G. G, the character that has been call out countless times for taking advantage of a sleeping child as a full grown adult, a pedophile in fact, only to later keep chasing that child into adulthood to reciprocate her romantic feelings despite being turned down multiple times. LO wrote this pedophilic groomer and then, to try to downplay it, said this same character was an sex repulsed asexual all along as if that it's meant to make the grooming and pedophilia any better. do i need to explain how terrible that is? -the fiasco romancegate. LO attempted to scam her audience into doing free labor for her as usual, asking for a very specific kind of story she could have commissioned if she wanted to, without any mention of an actual prize. when people started questioning what were exactly her expectations, it quickly became apparent that LO was only interested on a very specific kind of identities to be represented. not non binary women, not trans women and definitely not ace or aro women. she made people with these identities feel like they weren't good enough and she has never owned up to it. -the only times she even talks about ace/aro characters is to say that representation isn't good enough... without ever bringing up "good" ace/aro characters as any alternative, either because she actually doesn't know or doesn't care. in any case... why does she even think she has any authority to define for ace/aro people what is good representation for them? -(allegedly, i wasn't there for this so take it with a grain of salt) she went to stream to claim that another youtuber was lying about being LGBT, despite never claiming as such, and about only ever feeling attraction towards his wife because, quote, "everyone wants to fuck."

i'm sure there are more examples someone else can bring up, but these are the one i can immediately remember.

[thelastjedis]

THE SALT

[starwarsnonsense]

#RomanceGate - A Survival Guide

Okay, so I know a lot of people in the Reylo fandom are hurting right now. I have closed my ask box because I was only getting the same questions over and over again, and I felt it a better use of everyone’s time for me to just put together one big post covering what I reckon are people’s main questions.

1. What actually happened?

This was published in a web-only article on Vanity Fair:

FIVE THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THE LAST JEDI

A big, central-to-the-plot romance. For all the fan-fiction fantasies of “Reylo” (an imagined union of Daisy Ridley’s Rey and Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren) or “Stormpilot” (the same, for John Boyega’s ex-stormtrooper Finn and Oscar Isaac’s pilot Poe Dameron), Johnson says that The Last Jedi offers “no one-to-one equivalent of the Han-to-Leia, burning, unrequited love. In our story, that’s not a centerpiece.”

And, on cue, all hell broke loose.

2. Oh my God! Does this mean Reylo is dead?!

It means we’re not going to see a full-on romance between Rey and Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. It doesn’t, however, mean that we’ve been seeing things or that Rey and Kylo aren’t important to each other’s stories. We have lots of good reasons (in TFA and in external stuff like the Databank) to believe that they are. There’s still a fascinating and compelling dynamic there, and we know that The Last Jedi is going to explore that in more depth. The Vanity Fair quote just means that the dynamic won’t be blooming into a passionate love affair in Rian’s movie.

3. So there’s no romance whatsoever in The Last Jedi?

We don’t know. Rian’s quote simply says that there’s no analogue to Han and Leia’s central love affair, but that doesn’t mean there’s no romance at all. It’s perfectly possible that they will subtlety allude to attraction and tension between Rey and Kylo without that developing into a full-on romance. But again, don’t take that as a promise - it’s a possibility, not an inevitability. 

4. So, does that mean we should pin all our hopes on Episode IX?

I don’t think we should pin our hopes on anything. The best way to enjoy these films is going to be to try and go in with as few expectations as possible, and take them on their own terms. There is, of course, a chance of Reylo becoming romantic in Episode IX, but I would advise against counting on that or believing it’s inevitable. We can’t think that far ahead without seeing The Last Jedi first.

5. What happens to the Reylo fandom?

It should 100% continue. Period. I want to see it flourish and thrive. I want to see people write their stories and create their fanart. I want people to discuss the characters at considerable length and be excited about seeing them again in The Last Jedi. And I really don’t think this news should affect how we engage with fandom at all. I do think it should make us moderate our expectations for what we’ll see in the films, but we absolutely should not let it kill our enjoyment of the characters and their dynamic. 

6. How do you feel about this?

Personally, I’m mostly annoyed because of the response that this news will inspire - it will unleash an onslaught of antis in the Reylo tag, gloating on fanboy enclaves, and outpourings of despair from shippers. All of these reactions are inevitable, and in the case of shippers’ feelings I totally understand the sadness and disappointment. I empathise, because I feel those things too. I’m the first person to admit that I let my imagination run away with me and set my hopes/expectations too high when it comes to Reylo, so the Vanity Fair quote came as something of a reality check for me. I’m a little sad, but I have absolutely no intention of quitting Star Wars or quitting Reylo fandom. I love Star Wars, and the Reylo fandom has been a cornerstone of my experience of it. I love what we create as a community, and my main concern right now is that we remain resilient and continue doing what we do best. Block antis and haters without prejudice. Try to be realistic, but still be enthusiastic and excited about seeing your faves on screen again come December. Most of all, remember that fandom should be fun - focus on the things that you enjoy about Star Wars and Reylo, keep on creating, and remain strong as a community. I’m not going anywhere, and I’m still just as excited for The Last Jedi as I ever was. Bring it on.

[reyintherain]

(This is kind of part 3 of my Vanity Fair related post-gate thoughts)

Naturally and unfortunately, these recent news stirred some fandom drama, and while much has been said about some fans being overly eager to defend and present their views and interpretations, to put it mildly, I wanted to share my two cents too on this story and a larger picture. As I was writing the previous bit on the Vanity Fair coverage, that post gradually grew into something larger, and to keep things clear I moved it to a separate post. Not that anyone would probably care, but here it is, thoughts and lessons from my experience and observations in this fandom so far, Reylo fandom in particular.

Having been first a passive observer since c. February 2016, and later a modest contributor (and still much of an observer, go-with-the-flow-discover-artwork-and-gifs type of blogger), one of the first things I noticed was the ways some fans were treating and plainly attacking other fans for what they disagreed with them. That was the first instance of learning about antis and what they do, and seeing the consequences of their actions, up to the point that some people felt the need to deactivate their blogs and presumably leave this site (for good or for a while, doesn’t matter). Literally almost every blog that I visited and followed that created or reblogged Reylo related content, be it art, thoughts, meta, or fanfiction seemed to have been under attack. Sadly, that wasn’t a big surprise as the Internet is notorious for many examples of cyber-bullying, gatekeeping, and a place to be an asshole under a comfy blanket of anonymity and lack of societal norms that act as guidelines for what’s okay and what’s not when it comes to interactions with others in real life.

Taking obsession with a fictitious fairy-tale to the extreme and making it life is nothing wrong with, as well as liking or disliking some aspects of it and its interpretation. If only some fans were a bit more sensitive, mature, and respectful when it comes to discussion around everyone’s favourite saga and characters. Seeing people getting attacked for their views and interpretations based on what is clearly given in the photos/articles, as well as media’s poor choice of words when it comes to shipping - e.g. recent Vanity Fair’s article referring to Reylo and Stormpilot as fantasies, fanfiction, imagined things - is unfortunate and shows less pleasant corners of the fandom and geek culture, big or small: ugly and toxic when it comes to fans attacking and bullying other fans or dismissive and even condescending attitude when it comes to talking about shipping culture and a phenomena of engaging in characters’ dynamics and relationships.

These past couple days are probably the first time since I’ve been actively (following) in the fandom on Tumblr that I saw the drama and, not one, but whole two gates unfold right before my eyes as the hell broke loose (thanks, Vanity Fair) (I remember watching things like #ashgate but it seemed to stir controversy among Reylo shippers, rather than send them tons of ants love, but I might be wrong). While I wasn’t personally attacked, I felt no better for seeing other blogs and posts get dragged down. It’s ridiculous to think some people take time in shaming and attacking others while claiming they despise the topic at hand themselves, yet actively post about it, send messages and stuff. Really, what’s their fucking problem, and why the fuck they feel entitled to push their opinions and preferences on others, seek them out and attack them, because they are not.

Since starting this blog, I got some ant* love letters too. No really, I was like, wow, I’m being recognized in this community haha. But really it’s not funny at all. I did engage once into conversation which led to nowhere and just got me more insults. And - confession time - I regret the way it sounded when I said how can they accuse me of supporting abuse because I like Reylo (which isn’t an abusive ship) when they themselves like Anakin who is canonically abusive and a murderer. It’s not what I said about that person liking Anakin that bothers me, but rather how I said that, as if getting back at them. The thing is I myself consider Anakin’s tragic fall as one of my favourite parts about the prequels, and I really like Revenge of the Sith. Not that I support Anakin’s murderous acts, but I understand where they come from, and enjoy the tragedy of the story which is quite beautiful. While I was upset and frustrated at them attacking me, and I was trying to have a sensible conversation, and was trying to point out incoherence and hypocrisy in the argument of that person, that part about Anakin came a bit off. Not my proudest moment, though I may overthink about it and make a bigger deal out if it than it really is, but in all honesty, I could’ve phrased it better. I’ve learned my lesson to be better than that and not to get back to someone. Some people might say, well that’s simply self defense, and I heard some people saying that the the best way to put some back into their place when they’re being aggressive to you is to reply in their language i.e. in their way. I don’t agree with that, and believe there are other, more civil and polite ways to deal with those kind of things. Because replying by getting back to someone is being no better than them, and can actually achieve the opposite, and let the fire rage on (unless that’s what you want, but that’s another story).

Another lesson from that interaction was that, unfortunately, sometimes there is no point in engaging in one-sided conversations when the other side is doing nothing but insulting and attacking, not listening, and not willing to have an intelligent discussion. It’s not even a conversation but rather a full-on verbal attack where one side - the attacking side - is speaking to attack only, and listening only to pick words out of context, manipulate and twist their meaning, and then reply using your own twisted out-of-context words as further proof how dumb and disgusting you are. That's disrespectful, immature, and toxic, and I have no further wish to ever engage in such conversations. Hence, the last, but not least lesson - block them all.

Now, no one should be attacking and getting attacked like that to begin with, but the reality is that those things happen, unfortunately, and yes it’s unfair that the burden of keeping oneself safe and one’s well-being sane falls onto them, but fortunately, an option to block exists, and can really help. It’s not a solution that addresses the root of the problem, and might not be applicable in all cases, but it’s quite an effective tool which can help rid of ants and make overall fandom experience happier. Because if not for fun, why else do this? It’s about taking control into your hands (when possible), and saying no I don’t want to engage into that, I want my fandom/shipping experience what I want it to be - fun and enjoyable.

As for those who feel the urge to jump and acutely disagree with anything and anyone that differ from them and their reading, there are polite and respectful ways to engage in discussion. Being open, listening, doing some introspective work, considering others, and considering why we all are in this fandom - for our love of the same thing - should be really a routine. The ways we engage might be different, what we take away, who we identify with, how we interpret canon material - all of that can and should be approached from different angles, and shouldn’t be a problem at all. Instead of ripping the fandom apart - embracing multiple facets of it, having fun - but not at the expense of others, - and celebrating (analyzing, and over-analyzing, and criticizing) all things Star Wars is the way to be.

[bensoloneedsatimeout]

Coming back to the dash after weekend hiatus and it's just

[marybeatriceofmodena]

*hippie voice* Hey, man, no offense, man, but shouldn’t we just stop and all love each other, like calm the fuck down?

[jedimistress]

Silence, whippersnapper

Last night I posted that I was worried about a potential lack of continuity and shared vision among the sequel films, given Rian’s indication that he was going his own way with The Last Jedi and not necessarily following up on what JJ had started. 

This morning I woke up to Ohtze’s repost of a Twitter exchange in which Rian was asked, “But some of the story [in TLJ] was already planned, yes?” and he responded, “Nope.” To a followup request for clarification, given Kathleen Kennedy’s comment about a “sense of where the saga was going,” Rian said, “I’m sure they talked about where it might go early on, but when they came to me there was no mapped story presented beyond TFA.” 

What? How do you honor a story and its fans if you abandon the established narrative every time you switch directors? If Rian is playing semantic games so later he can say, “Well, I never said we didn’t later discuss a mapped story,” I will be insulted. 

At this point I’d rather everyone involved in making TLJ - Rian, Pablo, cast - just stop answering questions. Plead the Fifth and zip it, guys - you’re making things worse for those of us who are sincerely invested in the sequel saga and who hang on your every word. You can resume explaining yourselves after the damn movie comes out in December. 

[alikssepia]

Art People - a Reylo fanfic

This is for my Russian fellow Reylos, a new fanfic written by a friend of mine, @henri-the-jedi​, in the wake of #scargate and the last weekend drama over #romancegate. Hilarious. This is the first time, I think, that I do really regret that there’s no Russan-into-English translators out there who would translate this fic for the English speaking friends. Will Google Translate do any good?

Люди искусства

— Ты автор этой пьесы? — Император посмотрел на сценариста таким взглядом, что у того резко перехватило дыхание. — Д-д-да, я, Ваше величество. — Уже конец второго акта. Когда я увижу романтическую линию молодого принца и его фаворитки? — Ваше ве-ве-величество… — задыхаясь, лепетал писатель, — мы делали динамичный спектакль, с интенсивной плотностью событий… Мне показалось, что в пьесе должна быть неразделенная любовь. И ввиду сильной перегруженности… линия романтической привязанности не является центральной. Императрица побледнела и с сочувствием посмотрела на автора.