#slavic representation on the western media

[sophiemariepl]

Am I the only one here who is so damn angry about the fact that a large portion of the Slavic representation on the Western media is either Russian, Russian-coded (e.g. the Grisha Universe by Leigh Bardugo) or copies the narratives about other Slavic nations that exist in the Russian discourse about them?

[mishkakagehishka]

And i can't be the only one who thinks 99% of the representation we get is entirely soulless btw. I can't speak on POC since i'm white, but every time someone tells me "watch this, it has gay people" it's like. Okay. So did they add the gay people because it's marketable now? Did they give the gay people a personality beyond the yass queen stereotype that is suddenly seen as not offensive? Do they have a personality? A character? Or are they just the "gay people" meant to be used as a marketing slogan, a line meant to hook and draw people to stream and give their money to it?

[apollolewis]

The big thing I want the Sims 4 to get is packs that show off Slavic or just Eastern European cultures in general, and Cajun culture.

Slavs don’t have a lot of good representation in western media and I love Slavic culture. If they make a world based off of it they could divide the neighborhoods into the different Slavic groups to like dividing them into an eastern slavic neighborhood, a western slavic one and a southern slavic or a Balkan neighborhood. The big thing I’d want them to add in it is Slavic clothing because I make a lot of Slavic sims and the ability to add nicknames since diminutives and nicknames are very common in those cultures. I also really want church veils and Slavic headscarves to be added.

The Cajun one is because I’m a Cajun girl who pretty much never see Cajun culture in stuff. The pack would also add a new world that can be divided into the different Cajuns as well. My family is from the Cajun Prairies, so the pure bayou and swampy world wouldn’t be my favorite but I’d take it. Also just gumbo recipe being changed from having insects in it.

[pricklypear1997]

Second post about AUs:

Is it just me or did the author of Shadow and Bone, just pick a completely random real world location to adapt her story from? It’s supposed to take place in some alternate version of Russia, but there’s hardly anything Russian about it other than the ethnic descriptions for the characters, but only in the books… there’s some vague political and cultural parallels but it’s so bad that the author didn’t even bother to research something so simple such as Slavic naming conventions… it should be Alina Starkova NOT Starkov. Barely any of the show characters are even Eastern European. I know there’s a Bulgarian actor, but literally everyone else is British, American, and just incredibly racially diverse for no reason at all. I don’t even remember if this school or military training program that Alina and co are in is an international school/organization or whatever, but it literally makes no sense that there’s barely any real Russian or Slavic representation at all, and that it looks more like an urban American population than that of any Eastern European nation. I get the six of crow aren’t tied to any one specific country, so I’m not talking about that. Just the fact that it’s really sad and makes me angry that east euros get really bad and inaccurate representation or we’re just seen as criminals and mafia, nothing more. We should do more to represent ourselves in media and not rely on some ignorant American media company to “represent” us, but regardless, it still pisses me off. Like why even pick countries like ours if the majority of westerners do not even give a rat’s ass about us or deliberately hate us and spread anti Slavic nonsense.

People like what they like, but it just makes me sad that Hollywood has all this money and shit, but they don’t even bother to do proper research about a culture, and on top of that make pointless diversity hires and call it representation while also completely misrepresenting the people that this series is supposed to show in the first place. Hollywood isn’t the only thing at fault here too. Ignorant people like the author who just don’t do any research. I’m so so tired of it. We’re not asking you to try to represent us, literally not a soul is asking the west to represent us but if you do it, have the decency to do it in a respectful manner…

At least with ASOIAF, Martin stayed grounded to what he understands of history. Yes, I genuinely believe the north could be seen as Eastern European, combined with some Celtic ( Scottish) inspirations, but Martin leaves it generally open for the viewer to understand that Westeros is based off of Europe in a more generic but still incredibly relatable way without offending any ethnic group from Europe. Dorne could be seen as Spanish specifically during the Arab invasions, but it’s honestly its own thing, the characters don’t even have Spanish or Arab names. Their clothes aren’t really even described as typical to Spanish or North African cultures. They just have vague surface level similarities, unlike the world of shadow and bone which seems to rely too much on the REAL Russia as a inspiration while at the same time just being incredibly inaccurate which sounds ridiculous and ironic but it’s true. Shadow and bone is nothing but a failed attempt of an alternate reality.

[just-antithings]

Serbian anon here, sorry I just saw your post about "uncultured". Maybe it's an English as foreign language thing? I meant it in a "you uncultured swine" kind of way, because there are a lot of stereotypes about E and SE Europe (Slavs as they live in most of those areas, but there's also Romanians, Hungarians, Baltic nations, etc, I even talked with some Greek people who feel they are often put in the same bag with us "uncultured swine"), many were fueled by the cold war, but a lot are centuries old, and currently result of capitalism doing its thing of not giving a shit unless something is profitable (aka, we don''t get "representation" because it's just not worth the effort). In Western media we are constantly portrayed as violent, almost animalistic. Men are uneducated brutes in wifebeaters who smoke and beat their wives and children all day long. Women are either sexless manly old hags with short hair and deep voice who are nagging you or chasing you with a broom, or hypersexualised, demure young bimbos who endure the abuse by their aggressive husbands because they don't know better (until a white Western man comes along to teach them the beauty of freedom or some shit). May I suggest a video by Yugopnik called "slavic stereotypes and minority representation in western media" that will make my argument way, way better than I can. XD

I generally don't like to go too often into this topic because lbr there are fascists and white supremacists among Slavs as well, and they often find themselves invited whenever discussion about anti-Slav sentiments is brought up literally anywhere. But from my experience, A LOT of Western people see a lot of E/SE European peoples as this almost barbaric group too stupid to take care of ourselves (even though a lot of the times when we try something, we're bombed to the stone age by US empire and its buddies). If I may draw a parallel, we're kind of like the Mexicans of Europe, as in "the ruling white people" will happily declare that we don't have any culture that isn't stealing, wife beating, and having dozens of babies who are simultaneously too lazy to work and are taking all your tax money, and also there to take all your jobs. (I don't even want to start with what they're doing to Polish people in UK.)

So to finish this tirade off back on A Serbian Film - I feel a lot of Westerners see it as "violence and gore with no artistic merit" because it comes from a nation that is all barbarism and no culture or history, completely ignoring the fact that there is a lot of deeper cultural meaning, despite the violence and gore and all that porn. Except even those are there specifically as a critique of overproduced, flat bullshit disneyesque cinema that exists not to offend anyone and extract as much money as possible.

Bet you were happy to give me this soapbox, eh. XD I hope I answered some part of what you wanted, and I apologise as I'm not a native English speaker and my thoughts are probably a convoluted mess.

.

[erzsebetrosztoczy]

Why do you want a slavic ac so bad?

Because??? I want to see it???? Be represented????? For once, in the right way???? Because slav nations are fucking awesome? Because even tho slavs are white we are underreprestented as hell?? And nobody talks about it?

Whenever a slav or an eastern european character is shown in the media it's either 1. Played by a person who is NOT SLAVIC AT ALL 2. We are stereotyped so fucking bad - like EE people can only be maffia members, assassins, prostitutes, dumb village peope in movies?? Because I saw my culture and people be represented in world media maybe twice? And that rep was as bad as it can get.

So yeah, for once I want a slavic or eastern european rep in Ac because we saw many western countires and cultures there but we have only 1 slav man there and well his game feels like a side quest. I want to hear our songs, our language, want to see our traditions.

My question is. Why NOT show slavic culture? Why NOT represent it properly? Why leave it in the dust when it's so beautiful and interestin?

I don't know anon, if you wanted it to come off as a genuine question or a mockery or an insult - if it wasn't your intention then all good, Im not mad at you, just this topic a little heated for me and I always get frustrated when it comes to Eastern European representation. If you wanted to question it as "why would we need a slavic ac" then just fuck off because you're not welcome here.

[captainswanandclintasha]

i've seen your post about the new va show (the one by j***e p**c) and i think the discution about representation would be much easier if ppl would realize eastern europeans (not only slavic but all of us) don't mean racial/phenotypical representation. yes, we see ppl who look like us, but don't see ppl who ARE like us – our culture, life style, behavior etc – unless they're a villain/hooker or both.

i cried when i saw moroi and strigoi (actual mythological romanian creature) being more than fancy/spicy names for vampires in the books. i was so happy to see romanian, the language, being used and not to mention the comrade jokes... i teared up (bcs we may not have grown up with communism but our teachers, parents, grandparents, all the adults in our lives did. we grew up with stories and had our fun with it bcs we didn't understood the weight of it. i remember having boys try to immitate Ceaușescu and all of us spoke with tovarăș (the romanian version for comrade) at some point just for the fun of it).

it's like with the witcher. they made the villages, clothes, music, customs, *everything* anglosaxon. when it could have painted an eastern european fantasy. i imagine actors in our traditional clothes, in our traditional houses, with our myths and lore and i'm so angry we didn't get that. and the witcher had slavic ppl involved in its making for the first season, then they quit bcs they couldn't bear it (grain of salt, i saw a post about it, but hadn't fact check).

i mean, why can't there be both? young poc being able to see ppl who look like them on screen AND young eastern euros being able to see ourselves and our stories as well. why erase/change/disregard the eastern european stuff?

//sorry for the rant. got carried away, trying to beat writer's block and write my eastern euro lore book//

I want to start this but saying that I am so very sorry for answering so late to this message because it's been staying in my dms for about a week but I honestly to God didn't had time to answer.

Secondly. I hear you my Romanian babe. I hear you and I KNOW.

And yes. We want people who are like us, act like us. People coming from here.

I've said it once and I will say it again: the americans are the only ones OBSESSED with the color of your skin. They are obsessed and they are showing it everywhere. Are Europeans racist? Yes, they fucking are. But europeans are racist with EACH OTHER. Romanians hate Hungarians and vice versa. British hate French and vice versa. The whole of Western Europe thinks we, Eastern Europenas are stealing their jobs and such but you will never see and european call the police on a black person. Or worse. No.

Strictly speaking as a Romanian, living in Romania, and growing up with western media where Romanians were portrayed as thieves and whores: I fucking cried when I first saw bits and pieces of Romania and Romanian in the Vampire Academy. And people who believe that Romania and Romanians don't have a place in the Vampire Academy world, should read at least wikipedia and see exactly where MOROI and STRGOI came from.

You are welcome, american Vampire Academy fans, for having a tv show based on Romanian mythology with zero fucking representation to Romanians but full of americans and english.

I don't think this fandon understands how it feels too see your legends, myths and LANGUAGE - FUCKING LANGUAGE - in a tv show where they are ERASED.

I will forget the casting choices, the changes, the mess they did, but I will never fucking forget Julie Plec and co. for creating a new fucking language "OLD MOROI" instead of using what was right in front of them and what stood at the bases of creating the whole Vampire Academy world. Romanian.

I don't try to come at me and tell me "romanian didn't had any representations in the book anyway" like you are doing with Turkish people because I will fucking end you. Take a look again at Mână (https://vampireacademy.fandom.com/wiki/M%C3%A2n%C4%83) and read the bios of half of the characters. BTW. Dragomir is a Romanian name :)

As @ladystarkov already said, Spain is full of Romanians. And I guarantee you anyone would have loved to be involved in this show.

So yes, dear darling fans, next time you try to come out and tell us that we are racist, that we are haters, maybe try and imagine how would you feel if some French tv show director would make a Hamilton tv show, with all the characters... Asian and African, and no one would speak English. Only French, Arabic and Japanese.

[theasianinfluence]

randomly started thinking about slavic representation in western media and it's like there's this holdover from the cold war era where they feel the need to say "By the way, the soviet union was bad" so all your slavs are evil communist soldiers or part of organized crime until they heroically denounce their country in favor of the western hero's democratic truth or whatever, OR they're a goofy vodka-drinking clown with a pet bear. Or femme fatales seducing our western protagonist with her Exotic™️ feminine wiles

Like is there ever just Some Guy that's like "Hi I'm Matěj from accounting"

[acesydneysage]

The end goal of representation politics, as flawed as it can be, isn't to abolish acting and to have characters only be played by people exactly like them. There's a specific history of oppression that makes certain things problematic. That's why whitewashing is a thing and blackwashing is not.

Cultural erasure is sad and disappointing, but the reason people don't treat it as something as bad as whitewashing is because it's categorically not, it does not have nearly the same history of violence attached to it.

The US doesn't have a history of minstrel shows about eastern Europeans. There isn't a problem with lack of pale skin representation. If what you're interested in is pale skin and not actually a complex portrayal of Slavic cultures, there's plenty of content for you out there.

There can be perfectly valid and respectful critiques, expressed politely. Russians have actually being demonized on Western media, so I understand wishing for a Russian actor, I did too. But it's more a matter of authenticity in the portrayal, having a different type of white guy play Dimitri is not whitewashing. But you can be wary about how good a job he can do, certainly.

As for Rose, I wish her Turkish ethnicity had been actually represented, and you can be black and have Turkish heritage at the same time. That would have been cool, but it's not the actress' background as far as I know. I don't know if casting would be different under different circumstances, without covid restrictions, but it is what it is. I wished she had been Turkish in the movie too, but I still watched it, and I think Sisi will make a beautiful Rose.

To be honest, a lot of Turkish people look white to me, but if their experience is racialized in the US I won't erase that. But I think they look white to a lot of people who are raging right now too, because lots of them are much more focused on the exact shade of Rose's skin than in her actual heritage, funny that. Or they're praising white actresses who are also not Turkish at all. Very intriguing. The things people will pretend to care about in order to dress up their racism in social justice language are astonishing.

And Lissa was never albino, btw. Would be cool to have more rep for that, but she wasn't it. Most other characters are American, and they're descended from Europeans because that's how white Americans work, it's stolen land, they aren't native to it.

Hopefully the writers of the show will do alot of research and know what they're talking about, and portray the slavic inspiration of the books in the respectful and complex way these beautiful cultures deserve.

But you know what other culture the books draw heavily from too? You know what these books written by an American woman that deal with racism as one of their central themes also take inspiration from? The culture and oppressive structures of the country she lived in her whole life.

The oppression suffered by dhampirs is very related to racism and specially antiblackness/misogynoir experienced by people in real life, so using their plight for inspiration while featuring next to no black people in the books isn't great. I'm happy they're changing that at least, it's an improvement. I think the themes of the books could be enhanced by these choices.

The same way, if we get to Bloodlines, if you're gonna have a conversion therapy inspired plot you should have more queer rep. If the main couple draws from the struggles faced by interracial and queer couples, there should be more representation.

The cast looks beautiful and I need to see them actually acting to know if they're good. You're allowed to care about external descriptions of the characters. But in my opinion capturing the spirit of the character is much more important, and real life sociopolitics should be taken into account.

You can't please everyone, and you're never gonna get exactly what's in your head. But most of the fandom is grown adults now, and you should be able to handle disappointment without having a breakdown or harassing anyone. Keep things civil.

[acertaincritic]

Ehhhh, so I guess I should watch “Shadow & Bone”...

Why am I not excited for it?

For one, it’s a mediocre book. And while the show incorporates the Crows, who star in a much better story, I just don’t really trust original stories from Netflix. The additions they made to “The Witcher” were mostly boring filler.

For two, the showrunners took this Russia-inspired story - which TBH already was a pretty inaccurate representation of Russian culture - and decided to make the MC half Asian. Now, on the face of it that’s fine, so long as she identifies as Ravkian/Russian... Except she apparently doesn’t? At least according to the reactions that flashed on my dashboard? Apparently the showrunners made her face racism like slurs and talk about making her look less Asian for multiple episodes? It just goes on and on? 

Like, projection much? Not every country is so race-obsessed as the US. Sure, we get an occasional jerk, usually one who spent too much time on the American side of the internet, but that’s about it.

And I admit, there is a bitter taste in my mouth whenever someone says that Eastern European fantasy is “too white”. It’s racist, and it’s ignoring the vast cultural differences between the Eastern and Western Europe, never mind that every single country is already different. So all those American imperialists and racists are looking at Slavic people and going “Oh, you already have lots of representation in media, everything before the year 2000 is only about you!”

No, it’s effing not. It’s permeated with British culture and with white American culture which, guess what, stems from British culture. It doesn’t represent us in any way more than it represents the Chinese, the Nigerian, and any other non-British culture on Earth.

But now that finally there’s one mainstream series based on Russia? Even one that’s so imperfect and written by a white American? Nah, move on! We gotta get some Asian rep and also put some US-typical racism in! You can’t even be protags in your own stories! After all, you’re *not diverse enough!*

Fuck off.

[phoenixyfriend]

FUCK

Guys I'm not watching this show but I have Feelings and also

I just

Fuck

Do you know how fucking rare it is to see an Eastern European, Slavic family portrayed as healthy and normal?

They're not weapons dealers or abusive or living off of trash or whatever stereotype the author feels like using

They're just people

This is at the core of my difficulty with the Max*moffs as characters: they're a terrible whitewashing of canon Rromani characters, but they're also one of the ONLY positive representations I and people like me GET in western media and I just. If this was divorced from the comics I'd be wholeheartedly supportive but instead ME getting rep comes at the cost of OTHER people getting rep, and that's just. Ugh.

[mishkakagehishka]

about the "They're (shumika) so canonically eastern european" post, you know they're japanese,, right? i'm not trying to accuse you of anything but i've been in some fandom spaces with people heavily insisting japanese characters are british/otherwise white without caring about whitewashing and i just want to be sure you're,,, not doing that

Please never again equate eastern-euro-ness with being British again, you'll give me a heart attack /j

Mm. I don't know how to answer this in a proper way tho. Or rather in a way that won't come across badly(?) bc I do recognise EE/Slavs/myself at the end of the day as white (like, don't worry about it, I unironically clutch my pearls whenever I see people insisting we're not white) so I understand what you mean by whitewashing (and it's something I worried about myself when saying this - "oh, this anime boy is so ee to me", I've always worried it would come across as whitewashing which is obviously not my goal)

It's more like. Half spite and half cultural. Like, you don't have to be white to be eastern european, and you especially don't have to be white to be culturally eastern european, so as far as I'm concerned, characters I've "adopted" into my culture are equally as Japanese as they are eastern european (to me). And the spite is, and this is why I'm a bit miffed at you equating my headcanoning to headcanoning them as British/white in general (and AGAIN bc i don't want people to misunderstand, we are white, i do recognise the problem you're bringing up, i'm not in any way denying this or the fact that we have white privilege), is because uhhhh idk if you've noticed, but eastern europeans don't really get much representation in media, and when we do get it, it's absolutely awful. I made a bingo card once, even, but like, try to remember all the Slavic and eastern euro in general fictional characters you know, and now try to remember one that wasn't either an offensive stereotype for the sake of comedic relief or a villain (or, bonus for female characters, a gold-digger or otherwise ridiculously sexualised but still morally bad or leaning on negative stereotypes). It's not like I care about that stuff anymore, instead I just go "okay, this wasn't made with me (ee viewers) in mind, so i shouldn't bother getting angry", but like. Between that and the fact that eastern europeans are still considered "below" in a lot of western Europe (and... i mean, you know a big reason for why Brexit happened was that they didn't want any more EE (specif. Polish) immigrants? I'm sorry for hyperfocusing on you equating it to British hcs bsabbsjdjs but😭) I just grew kinda. Annoyed. And started going "alright, well, fuck it, your fave is a Slav now".

But, idk, the "they're Japanese" and "they're EE" coexists to me. I don't see why Japanese people wouldn't be able to participate in ee culture, and as far as I'm concerned, anyone can be culturally eastern european. I just like to think about my blorbos participating in my culture, it's not That Deep, and i'll apologise if it came across that badly to make you want to compare it to Br*itsh hcs. Sorry, had to squeeze in one last scandalised gasp at that. I just want to see names like mine, accents like my family and friends' and cultural practises like ours not be villainised or caricatured for once.

Like, the goal isn't "they're white now", my goal is "I'll make my own good rep from already beloved characters", it's not about changing their skin colour, but about projecting my culture onto them, which isn't dependant on skin colour.

I hope this all came across well enough, it's. 6:20, i've slept for a good 4h and english is still only my second language, but lmk if you need anything else clarified

[estelscinema]

The Witcher: Season 2

Geralt of Rivia, a solitary monster hunter, struggles to find his place in a world where people often prove to be more wicked than the beast he hunts.

Please be warned that I am someone who has not read the books but is very familiar with the world through the games. SPOILERS AHEAD.

Season 1 of The Witcher was pretty good. Despite there being some problems with the worldbuilding and the storytelling, the series easily showed that it can improve with more seasons and a larger budget. Yet, somehow, the second season has taken a mighty dip in quality despite having a more straightforward story. It is somehow more convoluted than the first and feels like a pitiful melodrama trying to replicate Game of Thrones rather than the world of The Witcher. Nothing within this series screams the world that author Andrzej Spakowski created.

Oh, where do I begin? The majority of this season feels like filler. Many of the plotlines truly go nowhere in this season, and when the plot does develop, it happens so quickly that it's over in a blink of an eye. This makes pacing makes the story feel incredibly uneven and convoluted. The writing has also taken a massive dip in this season as well. I am personally fine with cursing but this series went from mostly elevated dialogue to every other word is "fuck". Furthermore, what book fans have told me is that this series takes a massive turn from the novels. With Eskel being killed, I was immediately insulted, remembering him from the games and I know he plays a big part of the story later on in the novels. The showrunner's explanation is bullshit and felt they killed him because they can and they actually don't care about Spakowski's work. The action scenes are okay but nothing really fancy. The dramatic camera movement was more annoying than anything else. Overall, this series is a massive disappointment.

The acting overall in this series is also a mixed bag. Henry Cavill proves yet again he is the best thing about this series. I truly feel sorry for him because he seems to be the only person working on the series who truly cares for the world of The Witcher. Anya Chalorta and Freya Allan both gave pretty good performances in this series. Kim Bodnia feels miscast as Vesemir. Mecia Simons is okay has Francisca, but they turned her character into an irredeemable one and ruined her. What is even more frustrating is that they are clearly going to make her into a misunderstood character. However, the biggest miscasting of this series is easily from Mimi Ndiweni as Fringilla. If you have read the books or played the games you clearly know why she is miscasted, but even the actress can't pull off Fringilla in any convincing way and was cast simply to check a box. Overall, it feels like one massive disappointment this season.

With the bigger budget, it is clear that the production value increased within the second season. However, nothing within this series feels Slavic. The music tries its best but it is just hollow and meaningless. Even though the series does have some good soundtracks, they just don't mix with The Witcher. The costumes are fine, but they have no identity to them. They just feel like standard fantasy garments but with no real culture to them. The visual effects are much better in the second season, but still feel cheap at many points. The only point where they don't feel cheap is in the first episode of the second season. Overall, I would expect this series to have at least some cultural identity to it but instead feels like a generic fantasy.

The biggest problem I have had with this series since day one is that it completely shits on the cultures that influenced The Witcher. If you are unaware the world of The Witcher is heavily influenced by Slavic mythology and culture. The games by CDProjek Red near-perfectly capture this wondrous culture. However, in the series, it is nowhere to be found. Slavic culture has no representation in Western media and this series could have brought this culture to western audiences. Instead, they forced modern and forced "representation" requirements in order to please the people of Twitter. They completely threw out the culture and the people these stories came from in the name of representation. The showrunners have proven they are massive hypocrites and really don't understand what representation really is.

I am sorry if this review feels like a rant but it needs to be stated. It feels like no one within this series except for Henry have shown that they care about the world of The Witcher. I hope Netflix reads this and starts making some changes to the show leadership.

I am giving The Witcher: Season 2, a C-.

[mattelektras]

Do you think Marvel isn't bothering greatly with representation of other ethnic groups/people from other counties properly and pasting some stereotypes on them? Since you're an Elektra fan, do you feel she has Greek representation or should have more of it?

I haven't read plenty on Elektra but when it comes to others I personally think Marvel isn't bothering that much about representation, for instance Eastern European, be it Roma, Slavs or Jews out there, they try but it mostly ends up messy and usually with some stereotypes included. Not to mention how they don't even bother naming characters properly from the region, it's either Russian (for a character that isn't even Russian) or some name that makes no sense.

Maybe my opinion is wrong, I haven't read every single Marvel comic but from majority I did, I think they should put more effort into this representation, they'd enrich their characters and people who don't know much about others could get interested to know those different cultures, traditions, etc. or just get to know a new fact about people who aren't just leading the American (white) life.

im not any of those things so its not for me to say they portray abc badly or xyz well. like i can definitely see there are issues in certain comics or from certain writers but yeah, its not for me to decide what's good representation for groups im not a part of

i think at the end of the day in any form of media, the best representation comes when you INVOLVE the people you're trying to represent in the creation process instead of thinking you can do it for them. even just for small details like language. it'd be so easy to ask someone who speaks it than just assume google translate can do a better job. ive talked w ppl on here before about russian/slavic in general surnames having been westernized and stuff like that. even just to consult those groups would be a small effort made that could go a long way. in general these huge companies w all this power should always be trying to branch out and hire the best people for the job instead of just the easiest

[imaginejolls]

i love the Slavic representation in western media! you have the alcoholic, the abuser, the victim of human trafficking... am i forgetting anyone? oh right! Baba Yaga

[gayregis]

this is kind of controversial so bear with me. as a slavic person i really feel like twn kind of “stole a part of our culture” (no not because there are poc, fuck the people who say that) like, the books and games have a really distinct slavic feel to them, even if they are inspired by europe in general, but twn kind of... throws all that out. it feels like just another western fantasy trying to be the next got. quite a few slavs have been trying to bring this to light but it’s greatly overshadowed by the numerous people simply being racist about the cast. this may seem dumb or like “white people pretending to be oppressed” but. slavs don’t really get the best treatment in western media as is and erasing us from one of our best known franchises kind of really sucks.

no i agree with this. i think the stupid fucking racists that are mad that there are actors of color in the series have totally taken this argument into red flag territory so that now it’s dangerous to broach this topic without attracting those freaks.

the witcher adaptation is not ‘slavic’ because it has no cultural reference to poland or any other parts of the region. both in writing and in visual design, it is incredibly generic and bland, as you said: “another western fantasy trying to be the next game of thrones.” this is disappointing and frustrating. 

i’ll speak from my perspective as an american witcher fan: i did not know anything about polish culture/language/etc from my public school and postsecondary education. the only time we ever were taught about the region was in education about world war II and the cold war (in which they don’t teach us anything except that “poland must have been weak because it fell so quickly, and it then was part of the big bad soviet union :( ew communism ew”. the closest thing to poland that we learn about is russia (NOT conflating the two, i’m just saying the closest in proximity/language group/etc), and we learn very negative things about russia. and i live in a “liberal” area of the US.

of course i’m nothing near an expert now, but i have learned more from being in this fandom, mostly because i have looked into the publishing of the books, differences between original text and the english translation(s), cultural references and mythology. and of course i have had way more conversations with mutuals/friends from poland than i ever would have if i had not joined the fandom.

things that highlight the witcher books being “polish/slavic” to me, that weren’t in the netflix series at all: writing, humor, character tropes and mythology, specific foods, specific social groups and distinctions (peasantry vs nobility), governmental offices and organization, pacing.

and it seems like it was scrubbed on purpose to make it more ‘palatable’ to a broader american/british audience. ... which didn’t have to happen at all!  a lot of what american audiences found interesting about the witcher (mostly demonstrated through the witcher 3) was its “uniqueness” in that it had a lot of cultural references that weren’t familiar to americans - for example the leshens in tw3 were quite popular because not many american fans had ever heard of them before, they sounded like a totally unique concept.

but they intended to take out the “distinct slavic feel” that you describe, ON PURPOSE:

this can be seen with people like alik sakharov running into conflict with lauren hissrich and the overall writing and visual direction:

The first season of Netflix's The Witcher was incredibly successful, but it did undergo a few changes on its way to the small screen, and that included a shift in directors. Alik Sakharov was originally going to direct episodes 1, 2, 7, and 8 of season 1, but only ended up directing episode 2 in full. Marc Jobst would reshoot significant parts of episode 1 and would take over 7 and 8, and up until now, we didn't really know why he departed. Showrunner Lauren S. Hissrich previously commented on his departure, but we finally heard from Sakharov in a new interview, and he broke down what he thought of his work on season 1 and why he ended up leaving

(...) Sakharov talked about the different points of view regarding the approach and vision for the show, and that conflict was the main reason why he left.

“You see, in my perception, Eastern-European literature has a completely different pace," Sakharov said. "It is no coincidence that Andrzej Sapkowski has so many storylines and characters. The producers set the task of setting the adaptation at an action pace and filling it with colorful special effects. That was their vision. My vision was very different and I tried to convey it to them, giving my arguments. Unfortunately, I was not considered convincing enough, so I decided to leave the project.”

The Witcher Director Explains Why He Left The Show

which is just so fucking annoying and disheartening because it’s part of what makes the witcher... the witcher. one can’t deny that sapkowski was largely influenced by the world around him (for better, or for worse... i’m looking at you, wwii antisemitism analogies with elves and dwarves instead...) and that was all taken out.

but they added so much sensationalist stuff to it - violence where it doesn’t make sense / isn’t necessary (the giant genocide that calanthe apparently carried out?), sex and nudity where it doesn’t make sense / isn’t necessary, all while taking away so much of the original text and dialogue, adding in cheap one-liners instead of paragraphs of emotion. the americanization of the media goes hand-in-hand with making it stupider, so it can reach the broadest possible audience to make the most possible amount of money.

and the effect of this is that all of the new fans coming in from the show don’t know anything about this and treat it like american media. one of the ways where this can be seen most prominently is how the fandom ‘affectionately’ nicknames jaskier “jask” ... and treats “buttercup” like a totally different pet name that geralt can call him... when... that’s not how... grammar and words work...

this is one of the reasons that i unironically like the hexer way more as an adaptation of the witcher books. one can’t deny that they’re more truthful to the original work. 

before this i’ve also read a little about how the witcher becoming a big thing (not even reaching the western countries yet) was important because before it, only western fantasies like tolkien were considered to “sell well” by publishers so they wouldn’t take their chances with a polish author. it can’t be denied that the witcher is a cultural phenomenon and gave more international representation to poland just overall and in arts/culture. and the netflix series totally washed this all away in their interpretation.

what makes me mad as well is that they had a great opportunity to use traditional polish folk wear / motifs / art in the costume and set design and visual direction of the whole thing, and they just completely did some random bullshit that looks horrible and grotesque (no one looks like they come from the same planet or time period, much less the same continent). it’s not “fantasy,” it’s just random and nonsensical. extremely disappointing considering how much potential they had to consult polish artists, costume designers, historians and medieval scholars. (the witcher doesn’t take place in medieval europe but it is certainly influenced by it, and imo historical direction in series like this are always good for the art.)

it’s also really fucking annoying that the netflix staff think they’re so progressive and amazing for adding in like 5 characters of color that almost all serve to support or antagonize the main white leads. the netflix series isn’t even good representation for people of color by a long shot imo and yet it’s touted by its showrunner as something extraordinary. why can’t we have people of color involved while also keeping what is considered as polishness or slavicness. it’s entirely possible, but netflix didn’t want to do either of those things because it wouldn’t get them as much money.