#so i rewatched the end of season 4

[lilies-n-slander]

Hazbin Hotel would be so much more interesting if charlie’s naïveté and surface-level kindness were treated as the actual flaws they are and didn’t work. Heads up, this kinda just turned into a text wall of charlie neg and ranting so don’t read if you don’t want to see that.

How she currently is, she just doesn’t make that much sense in the setting. I’ve seen ppl say that charlie is a fresh take and contrasts the edginess, but I just don’t see how she is possible. You’re telling me she’s been in hell for 200 yrs but still has this childish and naive personality, is still disgusted by the sinners being cannibalistic, violent, and even just horny, and is so detached from those she calls “her people”? She was born in hell, shouldn’t that make her more used to the sinners’ depravity and not less? She doesn’t seem to have a good grasp on what the sinners want or how they behave. It would make more sense if the show leaned into the toxic positivity white savior nepo baby angle (or rather, actually portrayed it as a *bad* thing) and rather than naïveté, her ignorance was out of self-centeredness and/or lack of true empathy for the other sinners. She would be more interesting as a character too imo.

She looks down on the other sinners (and honestly so does the show?? When she’s showing lucifer around and introduces him to her friends, they’re framed as unappealing as a joke… these are the characters the audience is also supposed to care about.. and many of the bg chars, such as the cannibal town residents, are portrayed as simple-minded brutes), there’s a lot of condescending “….ooookay” type of lines and she constantly has to think of nice ways to frame the clearly negative things she thinks about others. So why does she want to save them so much? The more reasonable explanation is a sense of white savior-ness than actually caring about them.

She’s eager to excuse whatever sir pentious did (which I’m assuming she doesn’t know?) and let him in, despite how he makes the other residents (including her own gf!) uncomfortable. And yes I say excuse, because she never inquires about his past sins or discussed him repenting. It seems to start with sorry, but also end with sorry too. This could’ve been made interesting if she simultaneously looked down on but also excused all sorts of heinous acts. Like val is the most openly manipulative and scummy character, he licks her arm, and yet she’s still apologetic about ruining things (Side note, if she’s genuinely apologetic, then she’s actually an idiot because why is she talking to the boom-mic employee *while they’re filming???*).

She doesn’t know what she’s doing and has no concrete plan but gets incredulous at ppl who don’t blindly trust her. Angel has to leave in ep 4 and she gets SO frustrated over it, like you seriously expect everyone to drop all of their other commitments for you? She has her webster definition notecards for the meeting with heaven and has to improvise and rely on angel being good at the club but she gets mad that lucifer isn’t 100% behind her plan?

Also, trust falls? Really? Then she goes “why isn’t this working? We’ve tried everything!” But on that note, the actual episode portrayal is kinda exactly what I’m going for. Not only do the trust falls not work, charlie says, “I love all of you so much,” pulls her puppy eyes, and only vaggie catches her. It’s surface level and shallow, and does not win anyone else over.

In contrast, vaggie’s attempt at building trust, throwing everyone into a battle, *actually works* (despite vaggie only being in hell for 3 years and being heaven-born, she already knows how things work better than charlie!) and yet charlie talks about it as though it already failed. She says “we work best as a team,” with the underlying message being “I can’t trust you to do things on your own.”

If she was waiting so long to reconnect with lucifer, then why hasn’t she called him in years?? Altho I’m currently rotating lucifer in my brain so I might be a bit biased

“If angels can do whatever and stay in the sky” they can’t?? Your dad is RIGHT there. I. What

She has a power dynamic with every other character except lucifer since she has her demon powers, not to mention she’s giving them a place to stay. When vaggie says she appreciates that charlie doesn’t use her powers, charlie doesn’t say “it wouldn’t be right,” she says it would be too *mean.* But if someone pushes her buttons, who’s to say they wouldn’t slip out (see her flip on a dime after val hits angel. Obv it’s justified in this case, but it shows that she’s willing to use her powers on sinners)? Again, it would be interesting if the show actually leaned into this angle. Imagine if she put on a nice front, never swore, seemed genuinely touching and understanding, but the second someone annoys her she annihilates them and becomes threatening and violent. Then she turns around and is nice again. Too much like alastor? idk

Also, many characters refer to her by calling her lucifer’s daughter, so clearly ppl know that if they cross her they’ll face his wrath by proxy (this also fits in thematically with what lute tells her in the first episode, that she’s exempt from the exterminations bc nepotism privilege). So realistically, everyone else would be a bunch of sucking-up yes-men bc they’re afraid of her. Which they kind of are when push comes to shove?

At first, she doesn’t help at all during the war and lets everyone else fight for her. Doesn’t want to get her hands dirty ig, even though all of this was caused by her in the first place. She only starts fighting at vaggie’s urging.

Like husk points out, every meeting charlie has with the angels makes things worse for all the sinners. Despite lucifer’s warnings that the meeting with heaven won’t work, and against vaggie saying to calm down, charlie basically picks a fight with heaven at the risk of *everyone else EXCEPT HER.*

What were charlie and lilith doing to stop the exterminations before lilith took her 7 year leave? Hell, what was charlie doing during those 7 years? Why does she have 0 connections outside of vaggie, who she only met 3 yrs ago? Why does she have to introduce herself to rosie, rather than her already knowing her name?

Also in ep 7 she says to alastor “I can’t believe how you can do exactly what you told me you would do!” (standing by and watching everyone fail at redemption) almost like she wasn’t paying attention to him at all.

“Why would vaggie hide that she was an exterminator” -> Rosie asks “how did that make you feel?” “It made me mad and doubt if she loves me” like I get it, it was a betrayal, but IS she stupid

Ready For This is charlie manipulating a town of ppl to join the army. Her pitch includes “on the way to the hotel the scenery is nice and you can make friends :3” and “have you ever wanted to die for a cause? Notably I myself am spared from being killed but uh that’s your problem.” Alastor pipes in that you can eat the angels and that’s what actually moves the crowd, because he understands them.

Her perspective on violence and where she chooses to draw the line is really confusing. Why does she care about sinners being violent to each other if they’ll just respawn? She stops alastor from beating up sir pentious at an arbitrary point, but is fine with him eating and presumably killing the gangsters who come after mimzy. (Edit: forgot to point out yet another example, that she was fine with vaggie tossing sir pentious and angel off the balcony but stops her from tossing niffty as well for no reason.) Why is she so apologetic to the angels actively killing sinners but was distraught over vaggie having partaken? Why was she opposed to the CANNIBALS being eager to eat the angels and saying “idk, they seem kinda murder-y” WHAT. What? I’m struggling to even begin to describe how ignorant that is during a WAR. What did she think was going to happen, that she wouldn’t have to fight anyone herself? Why did she stop her dad from killing Adam but doesn’t react strongly to Niffty finishing the job? If it mattered so much to her, the lack of reaction seems strange to me.

Isn’t it just so poetic that her weapon in the war is a shield that she uses exclusively on herself, which she hardly even needs due to her contractual immunity?

Why doesn’t she think to use her powers to build and maintain the hotel? That doesn’t require any violence or domineering. Yet when lucifer comes over it’s run-down and falling apart. Or ask lucifer to help her build it? She was concerned that asking for the meeting with heaven was such a big ask—why not start with this small thing? Father-daughter bonding.

Why does the show end w lucifer + the sinners congratulating her, and in particular, rebuilding the hotel? Hell doesn’t know that sir pentious got redeemed, so from their pov charlie’s idea didn’t work at all.

Can you tell that I’m writing this while I’m rewatching the show?

Aaand that’s that. Her char has always come off to me as somewhat condescending/fake, but I keep finding more and more things to dislike about the way she’s been written. Unfortunate. Honestly tho I might enjoy watching her more if I read her through this lens. You could probably write a similar post for most/all other chars in the show, limited only by the amount of screentime they get lmao

[brittie-frog]

I'm so down bad for Maddox and Ashlyn that my three favourite scenes are:

3. The Redlyn breakup - the chillest break up, Red supporting Ashlyn going after Maddox and the most insane storyline of Red realising he's bi because he kisses Seb

2. Just the entirety of Maddox during opening night - having an existential breakdown over your love life that you break the sound controls and then just give up on your stage manager duties and disappear (probably to help quinn)

1. The confession - a scene I want on repeat: the explanations of how afraid they are of how much they like the other then the "should we just stay friends?" Before having such a love induced make out their just completely ignore Carlos being there. (Also Maddison giving up and telling Maddox to stop coming back to her when she clearly likes Ashlyn... my baby just needed that push)

I love all my queer children but these two are the wlw so I love them just slightly more.

[dragonsinthedarkness]

"From the moment he started speaking I couldn't stop thinking about her. She died for this. She believed in this, and if it all goes away then it was all for nothing. I can't let this be for nothing. I just can't.”

I just listened to Silver's words in ep.XXXV and they reminded me at once of Flint's final ones: “All this will be for nothing. We will have been for nothing.”

Sorry to all Silver's supporters, but I couldn't help thinking…how selfish is that?

I mean, the war had a meaning as long as it was the only thing left and the cause Madi had died for, but it suddenly doesn't anymore as soon as she “comes back to life”? When even her own mother understood the meaning of her sacrifice. Of course I was glad she was alive, and I'm not saying Silver should have believed in a war which didn't belong to him (‘cause it never belonged to him, he just joined) but EXACTLY for this, who gave him the right to decide when to put an end to it?

He should have remembered how it felt like to have that war as the only thing left, to know that who you love has died, even if not for it specifically, at least for the same principles, trying to gain the same results, and what did he do? He deprived Flint of that only thing left. He deprived Madi of something she had been ready to DIE for, even without having ever suffered directly what she tried to save all her people from. Who was him to take that decision? How much arrogance does it need to do that?

And ok, he told Flint about Thomas (but ONLY when it came useful to himself to do so) and probably granted him the only thing he still really desired (admitted this is really how things went), but I’m not considering this because this is not the point. The point, just for me of course, is that that scene when Flint says that phrase is probably the most haunting of the last episode, because the treason and the injustice there cut so deep that it really hurts.

Despite everything, he should have left Madi her war and -if he really was a friend to Flint- should have told him about Thomas, regardless if it was useful or not.

Guess it's the main reason why the final is so conflictingly sad and beautiful.

It isn't even about whether the revolution could work or not, it's really only about selfishness.

[yuenity]

yk I actually generally liked the season and saw that ending coming, I just hate the Five and Lila thing so much. There was genuinely no point in stranding them for 7 years and pushing them together. Why in the world would you completely ruin the relationship Diego and Lila have been building since season 2 and make Five and Diego try to kill each other in their last few minutes of existence 😓

there was also Klaus’ arc (or lack there of)… they really put my babygirl on the sidelines the entire damn season

[queenboimler]

if you ever ask yourself, 'should i watch the magicians?' just know, when i first watched season 4 the ending was so bad it triggered a depressive episode that lasted over a month

[cinnabundolly12]

Listening to this youtuber give misunderstood information on lmk macaque is killing me and I want to go through the screen and shove all the evidence and timestamps in their face PLSSSSS

THEY HAVE A MACAQUE PFP TOO LIKE EXCUSE ME THATS OUR BOI DONT DO HIM DIRTY LIKE THAT WJDNWJDNSJ

And no it's not cuz I'm obsessed with lmk and a "I told you" person it's literally in the character sheet and hidden details you have to look closer at (because writing and the way the episodes are made makes it obvious that its gonna be relevant or explained later if lego would just give them the time or opportunity to do it later AND ITS IN THE TOY-) and also basic information on the og book description of macaque or something

Has 6 ears ESPECIALLY ON HIS MECH HE MADE so they didn't ignore or cut it out technically idk about his hearing the past or present magic tho tbh I don't think they've hinted at it cuz I'm pretty sure we would know of it by now

Season 3 “benched” white tail is not an animation error it’s tangs (and/or piggsy's?) magic kinda fucked up macaque's glamour (caught him off guard I think is the wording?)

And season 4 “a lifetime of mistakes” the broken portal thing sun wukong caused kinda has this thing around macaque possibly showing the 6 ears existence finally (kinda sounds like a stretch but it's rly weird when you think about the animation looking closer fr)

[youchangedmedestiel]

I'm still doing my rewatch while my sister is seeing the show for the first and, man, there was thing I didn't remember very well.

Dean facing his demon self in a dream, that was so fucking INTENSE! WOW! And seeing Dean not wanting to go to Hell while you know what will happen is fucking heartbreaking. He finally said his father put so much shit on him and was like, "Yeah you go tell them, LOUDER!" The line that finished me was him saying he didn't deserve to go to Hell. He really didn't. And it makes me so mad to know how his story end, whatever, this is a problem for later.

And then in Mystery Spot, Sam had to live 6 months without Dean. You can see how much he suffered. Before watching it, I told my little sister that it was a fun episode, a bit sad but still funny. At the end she said: "that was the episode you wanted to see?" Well yeah, it was but in my head it was definitely funnier. But here Sam looked fucking destroyed at the end.

[bigbarabelly]

What a good pure wholesome boy

[sskk-manifesto]

!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[weallpartyatybcpatricksfuneral]

everyone hates camp cretaceous season 4 but honestly I like it. not my favorite season but it's kind of compelling and I really like the spinosaurus

[yourqueenb]

It’s not all bad though. I’ve been having a lot of fun working on my wedding invitations and watching my little comfort show ☺️

[bylertruther]

i don't like season three when viewing it as a continuation of seasons one and two, but i do very much like season three when viewing it as the prequel to seasons four and five... hmmmmm.

[rosie-tyler]

.

[adhdvane]

im dying he r fkcuking face

[cherrylight]

sighs.

[fansids]

Welp, I've finished the season 4 special...

Anyway-