#spn endgame positive

[dotthings]

So if platonic bonds are the most centered on spn and the point of Sam and Dean holding a narrative position structurally that is often reserved for romantic relationships in media and the point is to illustrate that platonic bonds are as strong as romantic ones, therefore it makes no sense at all to read Sam and Dean as coded romantic.

There is no intent on spn to make Sam and Dean romantic. It’s a “love story” that is about the love between two blood brothers. Not a “love story” referring to a romantic love story.

With Dean and Cas, there is loud romantic symbolism and queer coding as well as loud textual story beats that are romantic. In fact, Dean and Cas occupy a narrative position that romantic pairings often do. While media does tend towards centering around a romance, it’s also true that romantic love stories are sub-plots. Dean and Cas moved into the A plot position as spn unfolded its endgame (their love was literally, canonically, textually, key to defeating the big bad villain), but mostly it occupies a common slot for romances. Dean and Cas’s love story (romantic) always connected to the main mytharc plot, but unfolding a bit to the side.

People get really mixed up about this and think that narrative framing, or structure, means Destiel is lesser, or not important. But it’s as crucial as the sibling bond. This has to do with structure, not importance.

Dean and Cas are best friends. Them being best friends doesn’t in any way preclude the romantic love story. Their romantic love story does not in any away demean or take away from the power of their friendship love. These loves co-exist in Dean and Cas. It’s common societally. People “marry their best friend.” Or “fall in love with their best friend.” There’s been major jewlery brand ad campaigns using this premise. It’s not mysterious. It’s not odd. With Dean and Cas, it just is. Not every romantic love story is a best friends lovers hybrid, or friends-to-lovers, but they are fairly common. It’s a favorite romantic trope.

SPN did not diminish the power of romantic love. It made Dean and Cas’s love key to the main plot for taking down the villain. That love was key to Dean’s arc. No Dean and Cas love, there’s no reunion in Heaven for the brothers, either.

We gotta use small words.

Sam and Dean are platonic.

Dean and Cas are romantic.

Both relationships are crucial to the plot and the emotional arcs of spn.

Yes it’s that simple.

[eisforeidolon]

This is in response to the person who replied to your queerbaiting post. The thing that bothers me the most about that corner of the fandom is how they position themselves as "the LGBTQ fans of SPN" as if LGBTQ fans who don't ship D/C, or even see it, don't exist. Which is especially problematic since many D/C shippers are cishet but speak over actual queer fans.

Personally, I would not have objected to Dean (or Sam for that matter) being bi as long as their romantic relationships remained limited to flings and brief plot foils. A serious - especially "endgame" - romantic partnership for either brother would have changed the show into something I, and MANY other queer fans, did not want.

It really is deeply obnoxious. Unfortunately, as media has become more concerned with adding portrayals of a wider variety of people of all types, certain individuals in fandom have seized onto representation as a bludgeon to try and force creatives to write what they want very specifically.

Whether or not they're actually part of those groups themselves. Whether or not any significant portion - let alone ALL members - of said groups would agree the agenda at hand would actually serve their interests. That it even goes so far as tossing slurs at and invalidating people in those groups for being "bad" at being who they are for not supporting a very specific agenda about a damn tv show/movie/whatever? Just shows that it's not really about concern for the interests of the group - it's about trying to force the specific piece of media to tell the story you personally want.

The problems aren't with the idea of bi!Dean or bi!Sam as a concept. The problems are refusing to understand what the underlying story of supernatural was very obviously about - it was never a romance. As well as insisting an interpretation that is not confirmed by the canon IS indisputably canon because [unfortunate stereotypes & toxic masculinity & wishing real hard] and anyone that doesn't agree is a bigot.

I admit I didn't even bother to do more than quick-skim their last reply because not only was it the same old bullshit of refusing to pay attention to what's legitimately in the show and what the reliable sources from production have said about it (and therefore what it's actually reasonable to expect), and instead taking a bunch of biased cherry-picked specious bullcrap ~*interpretations*~ and ~*parallels*~ and other various conspiracy theories strung haphazardly together by shippers as gospel truth? They couldn't even be arsed to parrot make the arguments themselves, copy-pasting the generic regurgitated glurge of some randos on reddit. Because if people can write several thousand words about a thing on social media, it MUST be true!!! Especially if other people with the same agenda copy the same daft arguments over and over again! Amara help us.

[kerryweaverlesbian]

You legit have the best spn takes I love the patheticness of Rowena but never actually thought too much about it but your post makes me appreciate that part of her sm

Thank you! People are so nice to me 🥹 she needs to be a little scheming worm who gets maybe two thirds of what she wants maximum. She needs a project. She would be bored of running Hell with no conflict or further goals within about a week. Rowena has wanted the IDEA of running Hell for a long time but from what we've seen of what being monarch of Hell actually IS with Crowley (or, what he made it into) she's going to be bored out of her skull. She looked bored in the episode. She's a schemer!! Let her scheme! It's like if Chandler from FRIENDS just stopped telling jokes forever as his final position on the show and all his (titular) friends agreed it was good for him. Or if Winston from New Girl put down his racoon costume and said "I'm going to become an ivestment banker" and did it with no issues and no silliness that was his endgame. It doesn't feel right.

Anyway!!!!! Pathetic Rowena is so good. When she was trying to build a coven and all the witches were like. Have you forgotten that you're a complete loser??? Or when she "reconnects" with Crowley as his untrustworthy advisor and gives the most obviously scheming bad advice and the only reason he lets her get away with it is because she's his mother and he pities her a little. Or when she manages to get in good with Amara but Amara's like hm. You kind of suck huh. like that's golden.

I would have had, for her final appearance as "queen of hell", she does her whole big grand entrance being carried around by demons (loved that for her), giving (slightly quicker) lofty advice* about working on relationships (because that IS necessary for the theme of the episode) and getting her demons to look for Michael. And THEN after they get the news that he's not in Hell, have one of her demon aides warn her that the actual queen is coming so she's gotta go and the boys are like. The who. What. Meanwhile Rowena is scrambling to get her things and is like 'aye well maybe introducing myself as queen was a tad preemptive, but I will be. Good luck boys, best get out of here sharpish if you want to keep yer heads ❤️" and a specific goodbye to Sam with a kiss on the cheek since she was. His best friend???? and they don't presently have A Moment in the episode. It wouldn't take much. It would also solve the weird place of them being best friends with the queen of hell where - presumably - eternal torture is still happening. Easier to handwave if the position of power is incredibly tenuous like Crowley's was always depicted as.

To conclude. Kiss kiss kiss 💋

*not to be confused with giving Lofty advice, a character from BBC Casualty who crossed over to BBC Holby City and whom I hate with the fire of a million suns.

[howldean]

Endgame Archangel Castiel is something I have never heard about and now I am deathly curious please tell me about endgame archangel castiel

okay so first of all I AM TEAM ANGEL CAS ENDGAME i’ll take him however i can get and i’m by no means averse to human cas he’s so darling to me but i just think that

it’s important to me that his full grace is restored. so archangel cas comes into play with the resurrection of angels and demons aka the emptying of the empty version of postcanon. i think it’s EXTRA juicy if he fulfills the role in the hierarchy left open by lucifer. because rebellious fallen angel go brrrr and fuck mark pellegrino all my homies hate that bitch. anyway i think it’s the perfect space for him. he always winds up in a position of solitary leadership but we see time and time again that he was a soldier and also just. doesn’t like being the one guy in charge. but archangel cas…… now that’s yummy. i’ve never been satisfied with how raphael was treated in the series, and to give my best archangel cas pitch i’d have to rewatch those seasons, but i think that having them not only be equals but ON THE SAME SIDE would be. oh yeah. big time. i also think that the archangels as a whole are such a tragedy within the script of spn that to bring them back together would give us spectacular dialogue. gabriel is tired and done and wanted things to be over, michael well i could go rounds about michael but i think that him and adam’s visage combined would be unique, and then taking raphael and his goals. throwing cas into that mix, the last true children of god plus the guy god kept fucking up and tell them they’re family again. holy fucking shit yknow. OH BUT ALSO obviously he’d be souped up and wouldn’t die easily and could help others. yeah

[laf-outloud]

//Now, the only way that photo comes off in any kind of positive light is if it's purposefully like that to highlight that Sam was erased due to an error in the matrix, which Dean is out fixing.//

Ok, so I could see this being a thing possibly, but (and I don't watch the show so this is just based on what I've seen as/after the eps air) has there been ANY mention on the show of Sam or who he is? No right? Hell, have they even explained who Dean is in the context of the show?? Or are the newbies who haven't watched spn just supposed to understand because he mentioned "my parents" in his pilot voiceover? But even if they know who Dean is, they still have zero clue who Sam is. Is this the big ep13 reveal? They're going to be like "SURPRISE!! That random guy who has been narrating?? He has a brother!! And he disappeared because we f*cked with the timeline! The whole show has been about Dean trying to get his bro back!! Aren't you shocked by our brilliant twist? Oh wait, you're just confused??? Damn... Umm, ok so we maybe should have explained literally ANYTHING to give you a clue about this but... we assumed we would have a built in fanbase... oops!?" Like, even IF that pic was used purposely, even IF that wasn't just them being complete assh*les, it STILL DOESN'T ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE!! Or it won't to anyone who hasn't watched spn before... Even for the ones who have! The twists in shows aren't supposed to be shocking because there was literally zero hints that it could possibly be a thing, they are supposed to be shocking because you have built up a story well.

You couldn't be more right, anon! That's one of the many reasons why this show is an absolute train wreck. The creators have absolutely no consideration for any of the fans. Not for SPN fans, not for Sam/Jared fans, and not for new fans to TW (who I'm seriously side-eyeing if they think TW is good television). The only fans they care about are the ones who already worshipped Jensen, thereby confirming the fact that this whole project is a way for Jensen to feed his ego.

(I'd say they're also catering to hellers, but those fans will disappear once they realize there's no Destiel endgame... if they ever realize that.)

[sarcasticdolphin]

More mirrorverse thoughts:

A-H internal politics - every time I think about Rudolf mediating some of the empire’s internal issues, I always find myself in the spiral of - Ok, Rudolf has pacified the nationalists. Now all the Imperialists are pissed at him. Certain military officers (Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf) are still trying to start the First World War at every opportunity. 

In my eyes, the scenario remains the same - the only question is whether the assassin is a nationalist or an imperialist.

I also might just be too much of a cynic.

On Tod - We only see Tod through Rudolf’s eyes, which doesn’t give a great perspective overall - Tod can read Rudolf’s mind, but the reverse is not true. Tod can (physically) speak to Rudolf and there is some emotional bleed-through, but not to the level that Rudolf can reasonably divine anything of Tod’s plans.

So what might Tod’s endgame look like? An examination through the various characters that inspire how I write Tod:

1. Lucifer (Supernatural Season 5) - see SPN 5x04 - end Humanity. In Tod terms this is end humanity, enjoy the world with Rudolf.

2. Ardyn (Remnants (which is a fanfic/audiodrama of FFXV)). I wouldn’t say goals are easy to look at here - the dark teacher/corruptor is what I mainly use from this one.

3. Tod (The Bond) - To be honest a great many of my Elisabeth das Musical fanfics all take some inspiration from The Bond. Ends with Rudolf giving himself to Tod on the day that FF was assassinated historically. That being said we are directly told in the comments that this is a happy peaceful ending.

So what does Tod’s way forward look like?

This is a dark verse. *Glances at the last couple of installments* Very dark. So I am inclined to not have Tod be of any help whatsoever to Rudolf regarding trying to avoid war, unless it is so Tod can guide Rudolf into starting the war through his attempts to stop it.

But to the question - does Tod want war? 

Not necessarily. He doesn’t care about the means. Just the ends. He’s done horrible things to Rudolf. End result? Rudolf under his spell. He’s done horrible things to Meissner and Taaffe. End result? Taaffe is out of the way. Permanently. He’s going to kill FJ. But it isn’t the death that matters, it is the advancement of Rudolf’s (his) position. So does Tod want the First World War? No. But he can use it to his ends.

But what are those ends? 

I honestly haven’t nailed them down yet. End humanity sounds ... campy. Is Tod just bored? Maybe. He’s not human. He doesn’t necessarily have human logic (and he certainly doesn’t have human morals).

I might add more to this at a later date.

[egipci]

for the fandom positivity ask game: 3, 9, 20 & 23 if u dont mind 💕

what a polite ask <3

3. I just answered. Scroll down one, etc.

9. a ship that isn't your OTP but that you enjoy

hmmmm okay so I guess my OTP would be J/D for the purpose of this ask (it's the ship I'm most invested in and have spent the most time and energy thinking about), but I do have a soft spot for Sam/Dean. They're the ship that got away </3 I came into spn knowing destiel was not for me and ready to enjoy all the wincesty endgame goodness and for various reasons (some specific to the ship, some specific to the shippers, some specific to me as a weirdo, some I haven't even figured out) it just never really clicked for me, and I really really wish it had! A while later my dadfucking nature became apparent for the first time, and the rest is history. But there are wonderful S/D fics that I enjoy a great deal, and I really like the stories I have written about them and I want to write more! And I'm always in awe of all the beautiful art this fandom produces, no matter the ship!

20. your very first fandom!

Interesting question! I think it depends on how you define fandom, or being in fandom-- the first time I read fic was for HP, and irl friends and I would talk about it, but it wasn't the sort of thing I made friends online over or anything. First fic I wrote and never posted was [whispers] One Direction. First fic I did post was MCU. Only in the past couple of years have I really tried to make fandom friends online, so in that way SPN is also a first.

23. the fandom you're curious about because of a mutual

I don't know if I'm interested in the fandom as much as the source material itself, but I'm interested in Bate's Motel, for one. Also Dexter and The Sopranos, both of which I've started but haven't finished.

[orionsangel86]

THAT EPISODE! So Cas fans how we feeling? 2 MOTW episodes in a row have not only called the codependent brother bullshit STUPID and AWFUL but have made it glaringly obvious that CASTIEL is the catalyst that makes THIS WORLD DIFFERENT. I said this last week but this ep drums it home.

Every single time the AU bros killed each other, in OUR WORLD it was CAS who was directly responsible for preventing their deaths. The THEN sequence ended with the DeanCas break up which made it pretty clear that the intention is to keep Cas's role in mind. Perhaps this ep shows that Dean was RIGHT about Cas always making things go wrong, only he missed the point. He doesn't make things go wrong for Sam n Dean, but for CHUCK.

Gosh I have so much to say. This ENTIRE SEASON is about thwarting (I love this word btw thank you Good Omens for bringing it back) the bronly death ending. I'm in love. I've never been more satisfied as a meta writer than I am right now. WHAT EVEN IS SUBTEXT ANYMORE?!?

(I copied my tweet thread over here because I need to scream about this on two platforms because GUYS GUYS GUYS THIS IS THE MOST VALIDATING THING!)

Look this episode and last week both gave us a generic MOTW story without Castiel and BOTH episodes pointed out in a crazy meta way how DULL and overdone those episode formats are. Even the subtext is so blatant the writers mock their own way of sending messages in MOTWs. This episode, with the brother werewolves who tragically died murder suicide style, were a classic example of what SPN has been doing for YEARS with the mirrors and parallels that for so long we meta writers were mocked for even trying to point out.

I didn't think they could make it more obvious than they did in 14x04 but this episodes showed us how blatantly obvious Chuck's story parallels are with trying to teach the brothers a lesson. They've brought this stuff directly into text and basically screamed at the audience LOOK! THIS IS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING! DO YOU UNDERSTAND YET?!?".

Then to top it all off they heavily criticise their own format in text and load it all onto Chuck. If this isn't the writers telling us they are breaking away from the usual structure I don't know what is.

Then there is Castiel, so glaringly present in the negative space once again thanks to THEN sequence that forces the audience to remember him. His absence being so cleverly weaved into Sam's dreams in particular. Demon!Dean murdering Sam only for the show to once again scream BUT CAS SAVED HIM in the negative space.

Castiel is Chuck's blindspot as Chuck is so obsessed with a brother murder suicide ending he can't see the angelic spanner in the works. I adore how well this is being planned out and can't wait to see what happens next.

[maraschinosqueeze]

Last night I was talking to @tinkdw and others on twitter about how all signs for the finale point towards it being a love letter to Cas. And by extension, the fans. Because Cas is a fan made character. And destiel is a fan fueled arc.

The title for the episode is “Carry On.” And Cas is the Wayward Son. He is the one thing Chuck could not control. As he said in his confession, Dean changed him. Made him want to be different. So much so that it altered Chuck’s script and allowed them to beat Chuck.

But Cas’s significance as a Wayward Son is not just important in canon. He is also the FANS Wayward Son. We are the ones who demanded more of him. We are the ones who kept this show going. Cas is a fan symbol and the final episode is for the fans.

I’m not a meta writer, but I am so here for Cas, the ultimate Wayward Son. The one Chuck couldn’t control. The one the showrunners couldn’t control.

[misha-moose-dean-burger-lover]

"i love you."

"you've never said that first before." cas whispers, and dean leans closer to cup his face with both hands, thumb swiping at a tear beginning to fall. he stares - just stares, at the love of his life, and the only one it's always been about, and dean's lost wondering why, and how, he's been holding back all this time.

only thing he knows is he's tired of waiting. tired, and guilty, and ridiculously in love.

so he presses his mouth to cas's trembling lips, letting go of the breath he's always holding when they're this close, and closing his eyes. cas sighs too — and it's probably the most comforting sound dean's ever heard.

"well, screw that." dean tells him, as they pull back for air, but linger in each other's space. "dibs on saying it first for the rest of forever."

he holds on tighter when they kiss again. so does cas.

[sinnabonka]

when the fight against Chuck is over, there’s another one right around the corner - the fight against twelve years of learned behavior. old habits die hard, so they have once again to learn to be around each other. how to look openly, fondly, without the fear of being caught. how to pull into a hug not only when coming back from the dead, to touch not to heal or check the weak pulse. it’s a whole new beautiful world to discover. how obsolete is the last inch of space between their bodies while on the couch during the movie nights. how their hands, their lips and their bodies fit together. how easy it is to leave, when there’s a place to come back to, and how home is not an ill fitting concept anymore, but also not the drivers seat of Impala. instead, it’s the shoulder you always can lean on. and the most important lesson for them to learn is how the world doesn’t have to come to an end to say once again “i love you”

[shelikestv]

In theory, GOD should've been the ending that they come full circle to, after all in S4 and S5 it was about that mythical and religious arc. If things were the same as back then God would be the important focus of the end.

But instead they let that arc go. Literally! They let God go. He wasn't even important enough to kill. Wasn't even important enough to make it to the final episode.

If this isn't evidence enough of the shift in narrative, how did Dean defeat Chuck? Through Cas' words to him telling him he is enough, he is LOVE.

Also, why was it important that one of the LAST things Dean wants to save is a dog which he calls a miracle? (Which Cas has been compared to multiple times).

God took the dog from him! Took Cas from him. And what does Dean say in the end of the ep? "We're Free."

So, looks like we can guess what Dean wants to save last. Cas. His "miracle."

And then there's Jack, taking over the new role of "author," and what does he do? Take himself out of the story. Unlike Chuck with his dark endings and spurning of the Becky Rosens of the fandom, Jack chooses to allow the story to tell itself.

Don't forget this ended with Cas' name carved in the table. This is where the story is headed. Bringing everyone back home.

And it's gonna be SOOOO good.

I'm so ready for next week.

[naruhearts]

That being said, I’ve calmed down a bit (jk NOT REALLY!!!!!!!). 15x18 will be absolutely pivotal and story-changing in terms of realizations, regrets, character arcs waxing and waning and waxing to like, their biggest ultimatums ever...I have so many words that I don’t have time to fit in one post.

We’ve adored the Found Family Sam and Dean have grown to cherish: a non-nuclear found family that mirrors positive change, self-actualization, and interpersonal vigor in each other. Love and...love. 

Love, in all its forms, truly will conquer all. 

Next week’s episode is gonna hurt us, folks. We’re in the actual, literal, raw, unadulterated endgame now. Next week may change everything we thought we knew about the characters and relationships we love, or better yet, magnify our appreciation for them tenfold. I have to say, my stomach is a bottomless pit of anticipation, COMPLETE TERROR, and excitement, mish-mashed together. 

Most of all, I have to say this: Dean and Cas are meant for each other, in every world, in every place, in every year, in every lifetime. The angel afraid of falling and the man afraid of flying caught each other, intertwined unpredictably, to throw cosmic authorities and hierarchies off course. 

Free will is love. Love is free will. Love isn’t bound by anything, isn’t trapped nor suppressed by universal rules. It doesn’t exist in a singular vacuum. It controls and frees itself. Love ebbs and flows and transcends even “the veil of death and saves the day.”

I thought this specific passage from ReKnew (a Christian website) was fitting (and one doesn’t need to subscribe to Christian beliefs to read this. It’s really relevant): “Love can only be genuine if it’s freely chosen. Which means, unless a personal agent has the capacity to choose against love, they don’t really have the capacity to choose for it...[i]n a world that is centered on love, even God can’t be guaranteed to always get what he wants.” 

It’s now up to the writers to see them through appropriately. We’ll finally know if Team Free Will get a good, more-than-palatable, positive ending (especially one we never expected) full of life and love in the next urgent final weeks of SPN on air, and holy fuck, do I love you all for being in this with me. <3

- Mon

[destielle]

And then, after a rousing speech, his true weakness is revealed. He's in love with humanity.

[freckles-and-wings]

hot take about the spn finale: we don’t talk enough about what a bold and cathartic move it is to have THEE christian heaven reshaped by a gay angel in honour of the man he loves

[t4tdeanwinchester]

in the good supernatural that lives in my head everything egregious that happens from season 8 onward is fixed by charlie and kevin becoming friends