#syscourse

[sophieinwonderland]

I think a huge thing some people are missing about the "God is plural" topic is the larger implications.

It's not just "God is plural, and that's cool."

"God is plural" is a starting place.

The real importance, I believe, lies in Genesis 1:26.

And God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"

Man was made in the likeness of God. And this verse is generally considered to be referencing Man's spiritual or mental attributes. Most agree that we don't literally look like God.

And this very verse uses plural pronouns to refer to God. The Hebrew word for God used here is Elohim, which is also a plural word.

While God being plural would be cool in itself, I feel the bigger and more important point is that if God is plural, and mankind is made in the likeness of God, then it adds further credence for Natural Multiplicity from a Trinitarian perspective.

[moonpool-system]

very tired of exclusionists. I shouldn't have to check every post about my disorder by someone I don't follow to make sure they're safe and don't hate our existence before reblogging it but alas. whatre ya gonna do.

[circular-bircular]

You cannot have a CDD without childhood trauma. That’s what leads to the disorder.

You can have a CDD and be endogenic as well; you’re both traumagenic and endogenic in that case.

You can be endogenic and disordered with trauma that did not lead to a system, but impacts your plurality. That’s being endogenic with a form of disorder, such as PTSD.

All three of these things are true at the same time, and none of them contradict the other.

[anti-endo-safe-space]

are we the only ones EXTREMELY confused by “Endogenic Alters”???

Like- correct us if we’re wrong, but that’s doesn’t feel very….

Basically it's supposedly just an alter that didn't form from trauma which-

A lot of us just formed from extreme stress (as we are prone to overstressing), that doesn't make them "endogenic" it just literally means they chill here knowing they didn't form from some abuse or something but from stress.

Which is completely valid!!!

[sysmedsaresexist]

Me, twenty minutes into a rant: -- So biblically, Moses is definitely a singlet

Singlet partner: the things i have heard spoken in this house... what?

[korya-elana]

For anti-endos who think it's just mislead endos creating misinformation within the community, let me copy/paste a few juicy tidbits from a 50+yo DID System who's been rejecting treatment for over three decades that I just furiously argued with:

"I think fusion is another form of singlism. It's prejudice against multiplicities."

"You're making a case for a choice you wouldn't even choose. I don't get it. It's like stabbing yourself without knowing you are doing that." (Because I was arguing that every System should make that choice for themselves)

 "I experience it as prejudice. I'm not demonizing anyone except the people who suggest it, who are always singletons"

"That's why I think the idea of final fusion is a myth that is pushed by singletons who are not aware of how prejudiced they are against multiplicities. Worse, it's a prejudice many multiplicities have internalized."

"That's like advocating for that Christian practice for changing gay people into straight people. It doesn't work. It's not humane." (Yes he really did compare final fusion to conversion camps)

And finally, my personal favourite: "DID is not a disorder."

Pro vs anti in regards to endogenic Systems is not productive. It won't accomplish anything. The misinformation is COMING FROM BOTH SIDES.

We need to start ignoring origin as a topic to be exhaustedly argued about in a purely circular manner and start combating the misinformation on both fronts because it doesn't matter what origin someone has when it comes to validity or existence. What matters is the misinformation being spread by BOTH sides.

[hiiragi7]

Y'all really need to learn about DID more outside the context of alters. DID is not just "disordered plurality" - It is a developmental disorder, an attachment disorder, a posttraumatic stress disorder. It is comorbid with many other issues, such as somatic pain syndromes, physical health issues, and a variety of mental illnesses. It is a complex organization of symptoms related to the disrupted healthy development of a child, both in terms of their body and their mind. It is not just about the alters.

[curiousitycollective]

Tumblr needs to understand that two groups with what are considered to be different or even opposite experiences can actually face the same issues, often within the same social systems.

Systems can have parts language forced on them when it is detrimental and other systems can have people language forced on them in the same way.

Bi people get told they'd be better if they were gay and gay people get told they're better if they're bi

Physically disabled people are told its to difficult to accommodate their needs and so are neurodivergent people.

Binary trans people get called by "they/them" while nonbinary people are told that "they/them" is to confusing as a singular pronoun and only he or she is acceptable

In our experience often the people who are doing the shitty thing are the same people in both cases. As easy as it would be if everything was nicely paired opposits where everything that happens to group a is the opposite for group b life doesn't work like that and acting like it does causes hurt and miscommunication all around.

[sophieinwonderland]

I used to present facts to anti-endos because I thought I could change their minds. Now I do it to bait them into showing themselves as science deniers.

It's... sad, I think... that I don't believe trying to convince them to change will be worthwhile or productive. Even when the Stanford Tulpa Study is released and we have brain scans showing neurological differences during switching in created systems, they'll make up reasons to dismiss it, or just choose to ignore it.

Neurological studies will be useful in syscourse... but mostly for further driving home that anti-endos are an anti-science hate group and should be regarded the same way as anti-vaxxers and similar conspiracy theorists.

It's disappointing that my view of scientific research into endogenic systems being able to convince anti-endos that I had when I first got here feels more and more like childish idealism.

I used to think their bigotry was fueled by ignorance. But the more sysmeds I interact with, the more I realize their ignorance is willful and fueled by bigotry.

[system-cypress]

A number of you need to learn this.

[circular-bircular]

For as much as I say that syscourse is a both sides issue, I think it’s valuable to discuss what each side focuses on.

For instance, I see predominantly pro-endo systems being aggressively anti-psych and anti-“medicalization” (e.g. attacking others got parts language, hating and spreading misinformation about final fusion, or suggesting that DID systems cannot function).

However, on the flip side, I see predominantly anti-endo systems being aggressively pro-psych and incredibly limited in their views of systemhood variety (e.g ignoring medical trauma to insist systems get medical help, insisting that fictive-heavy systems don’t exist, relying solely on scientific information without acknowledging personal experiences).

While these issues are not limited to those two sides, there are things that both sides struggle with in different amounts. Part of why I speak up so often about issues in pro-endo spaces is due to people ignoring how frequent these issues can be. I have been in maybe one pro-endo space that I haven’t experienced or witnessed fakeclaiming of trauma. It’s a major issue that I see on at least a weekly basis, and yet, many pro-endo systems (largely Endogenic ones) insist that’s an anti-endo only problem.

Essentially, frequency of the problem relates directly to how much it’s focused on in syscourse spaces. (Edit; now with fun additional reblog!)

[paletteheart]

As a traumagenic system, why do other traumagenic systems dislike endogenic systems? So many post about systems I see are tagged "endos dni" and "fuck endos", why are we so aggressive to them? Aren't they just stuck with a similar condition to ours but from a difference source? Can someone explain to me why we're being so mean??

[actuallyverynormalbtw]

to me, saying you can form a system without trauma is like saying you can form a scab without a wound.

[frag-mented-pieces]

It’s normal in DID to not have communication with parts at first (or even for a really long time). It’s normal to not have any fictives. It’s normal to not have assigned roles. It is normal to not have an inner world. It is normal to use I/me instead of we/us and it is okay to do so. It is normal to not have overt switches or obvious parts fronting. It is normal to have blackouts. It is normal to not switch for days, weeks, or even months on end. It is normal to be more switchy after a traumatic or triggering situation and then not switch at all for long periods of time. It is normal to not have a ‘system name’. It is normal to not know much about your system at all as the host. It is normal to not remember the trauma that triggered the disorder.

These are all extremely typical experiences of DID. You are not wrong. You are not weird. The vast majority of cases are covert without flashy symptoms until periods of more overt presentation arise, usually under stress, new trauma, or triggering situations (such as having a baby, getting married, death of an abuser, etc). The average person will be in the mental health system for a decade before being diagnosed and most cases are in adults. There is nothing wrong with not experiencing the type of overt DID that is popular to portray both on social media and in media as a whole. It can take years to map out your entire system and years to establish communication with parts. It’s okay to take time to figure things out. Have grace and patience for yourself. It’s going to be okay. 

[cavityinmybrain]

it is incredibly exhausting to go through tags for a disorder i have been diagnosed with and see almost every post say “endos dni” “i hate endos” “endos fuck off” like oh my fucking god can you not make a single post about being disordered without sticking it to the endos or whatever

like hi hello, i am both diagnosed with OSDD and i identify as an praesigenic system because i dont care why my system formed and you shouldnt care why my system formed (and also bc people were breaking their own dni by following me, an endo supporter). you are creating a hostile space and alienating parts of your community because you refuse to understand that others can have different life experiences

its also really exhuasting when im looking for posts about OSDDID and everything is either a coining post telling endos to fuck off or a post bitching about endogenic systems existing.

i am just so tired and angry about it. disordered endogenic systems exist. endogenic systems diagnosed with OSDDID exist.

[cccat-in-a-meat-sack]

By the way, I've seen a lot of discourse on "endogenic" alters, so repeat after me

Your brain splits alters as you need them. That means you can have a completely trauma based alter, and you can also have an alter created to deal with homework, aka an "endogenic" alter. If your system formed from trauma, you are not "traumaendo". You are traumagenic. Full stop.