#tal had so many neat concepts that went into molly I think about how hes supposed to be soulless and was perhaps originally intended

[dent-de-leon]

Lucien is like a fun vampiric archetype kinda character to me. His whole power is about blood and sacrifice. In the Orders, blood hunters would mix their blood together and then literally just drink it. Lucien gifts Cree a vial of his own blood, something that they both consider sacred. He even vows to her, "Blood of mine for blood of yours."

Lucien is both dead and alive--Taliesin mentions he was always certain Mollymauk would've set off Detect Undead. Lucien is among the living once again, and yet, still a ghost forever haunting his own skin--he's felt death sink its claws into him. He's tasted immortality. He sees himself as a god, a king, claims other mortals are beneath him. "I've come to take my reign, long may it be."

(And if we want to talk about Tealeaf as a spirit, Lucien as metaphorically undead--I think it's also worth noting that Mollymauk is also intended to be Taliesin's interpretation of a mermaid. Specifically, because they supposedly have no souls. Soulless? Clawing out of their own grave feeling hollow, empty, forever changed? Sounds very reminiscent of vampires to me, at least thematically--)

Lucien is the ruling lord; inheritance of the whole broken world is his destiny, his birthright. He's an orphan child all alone in the world, curled up in an abandoned cellar for shelter, desperate for an escape.

To the ruling families of Shadycreek and powerful mages of the Cerberus Assembly? Lucien Tavelle is nothing, nobody, another tool to be discarded when he's no longer of use. In another life, he's the exact kind of unfortunate, lonely soul who would've been led to a monster. The kind of person Gustav let Kylre devour--"Those no one would miss." As just a chid, Lucien is forced to feed other desperate souls to a monster himself. Just as much of a victim as the puppets on display in the witch's house.

Something about how Lucien has all these vampiric qualities of a powerful--cursed--undead monster, how he hungers for connection and control over other desperate souls, feeding on the dreams and minds of city trapped for centuries. And yet, the fact that his whole power is about sacrifice, and how that's reflected in Molly.

Someone who will bleed himself dry to save everyone else. Recklessly risking his neck for someone who might never thank him. Unable to bear watching others suffer--willing to stand and fight in their stead. Taliesin taking this premise of someone who's supposed to be hollow and empty and without a soul, someone who's often seen as monstrous, and yet...being so full of love and joy, he gains a soul all his own--

[illegiblewords]

Critical Role Episode 28???

Most recent one anyway I don’t remember number. Warning I do a little Taliesin critique up in here. I talk in kind of melodramatic, exaggerated ways sometimes but it’s not srs business anger or upset, just casual fussiness. This is all good humor for me.

- People keep talking about how Jester is going to interact with Caduceus Clay and if she’ll be jealous or excited. I seriously think those people are getting ahead of themselves. Out of Fjord, Yasha, and Jester, Jester is extremely sheltered. Jester is used to the tiefling body being something celebrated, to her name and heritage meaning something, to being liked and respected at least to some degree. We saw the first prisoners alone with Nila’s family. I am seriously concerned that she’s going to be traumatized. I think Fjord and Yasha will be fucked up too, but unless they were abused in a very specific and systematic way previously that this capitalizes on I anticipate that Jester is going to be the most traumatized. With Molly being dead from trying to save her on top of that, I really don’t expect her to be back to her sincere, bubbly self for a while.

- I legitimately don’t know if Matt will do this, but I DEEPLY, SERIOUSLY WANT THE TRAVELER SHOWING UP AS AN ALLY NEXT TIME. I think it’s needed for Jester and I think logistically the team needs that, also that elven bartender guy was totally him anyway. He’s watching close and I think him getting involved is literally narratively necessary and believable. If I’m wrong I’m wrong, but I think him not being in the next episode would be actively detrimental.

- UNPOPULAR OPINION, I’M FUSSY AT TALIESIN TBH. HE HAD SO MANY TOP GOTH WORLDBUILDING OPPORTUNITIES AND CHANCES TO EXPERIMENT. I KICK MY FEET AT THE LACK OF DROW AND DOING A FIRBOLG WHO HAS NONE OF THE WORLDBUILDING CONSISTENCY WITH NILA AND PUMAT SOL. I don’t even hate the idea of a graveyard cleric who seems like they’re on valium lol, but the way he executed the concept just reads like an extension of Mollymauk to me when he had the opportunity to do something really distinct. People are being all “oh it’s a skinny pink-haired mohawk firbolg” but right now this feels a little Marty Stu for all the weird exceptions and it feels like trying a little too hard to stand out without actually changing approach at all. I just want Taliesin to push himself more and experiment as a storyteller, it doesn’t mean not being goth but I’d really like to see him challenge himself more. At this point I’m hoping Molly comes back with a combination of Molly and Lucien memories and that that introduces conflict and character growth opportunities, because Molly as a static character I think was going to get real stale real fast. Also, people are 100% welcome to disagree with me and even disagree hard. I’m open to discussion, please don’t feel threatened by me having this opinion!

- Really I am so fussy about Tal not making a drow I can’t even tell you lol I literally made my own full drow as a backup character because I’m so fussy. Not a Critical Role OC drow, just a dnd one. This isn’t malicious either I’m just like YOU COULD HAVE GONE SO GOTH AND EXPANDED WORLDBUILDING IN EXCITING WAYS WHY DID YOU NOT SEIZE OPPORTUNITIES??? He could’ve done something interesting playing with dwarves or halflings too since along with full-elves afaik they haven’t been main party members in either campaign and that might have been neat to explore. Could’ve done a genasi. Yeah firbolgs are new too and I wouldn’t have really minded except that he kinda went idc about the stuff Matt and Sumalee worked in with the worldbuilding. To me it feels a little like if you’re doing improv acting and your fellow actor gives you a lead and you go “no you’re wrong”. Like you can try to adapt to that but it’s kind of ://// imo.

- I don’t think that Nila’s child or husband were Lorenzo (especially since they were caged and actively being tortured) but I do think Lorenzo might be watching invisibly as an oni or that he is waiting ahead. I also think this is why the Traveler needs to get in on this shit. I don’t think the team can take him down as they are atm.

-Pls how many Iron Shepherds are left I know the Bard (not a sorcerer??) is left and the rogue I think and one other dude??? And Lorenzo??? I’m lost.

[dent-de-leon]

Nonagon is a mystery to me as well and I wish we knew more of him. Is it the eyes? The tomb? The blood? If Molly had lived to be chased down by Lucien then where would Nonagon manifest? Would he take control over Molly like Obann did with Yasha? Maybe corrupt him little by little as he leveled up? Or was he always there within Lucien, part of that charismatic cruelty of his? What was his previous goal, before he met his end at Vess' hand? I have so many questions. But I don't think (1/x)

we'll ever get the chance to figure it all out. Breaking the 4th wall for a moment, Nonagon was probably created before Lucien, a part of the deep lore sparkled into reality by a PC's blank backstory. Then Lucien's characterization came from the life Tal gave to Molly: the mannerisms, the accent, the ideals, the hearts broken when he met his fate. I can't tell if Matt took notes when Molly was still alive or if he studied the character during the hiatus, but one thing is clear: (2/x)

He's doing an incredible job at messing with our heads and tugging at our hearts. I want Molly back, for more than just a brief moment. I want to know more about Lucien and his relationship with the TT and the MT. And I want to understand the essence of the Nonagon and how he came into being. And wow, this got a bit longer than I thought it would. I'm sorry for throwing more questions than anything at you. I'm just so fascinated by these characters. I wish I could have them all. (3/3)

oh this is all really interesting!! I enjoyed reading all your asks, there are so many good points here. Throwing this under a cut because I went a bit long.

It’s interesting to think that Matt may have wrote the concept of the Nonagon before Taliesin even started planning Mollymauk. That’d be a really neat coincidence, if Molly just happened to figure perfectly into this grand relic of ancient history Matt was already mapping out. Though I think it’s just as likely Matt could’ve tweaked the Somnovum’s story to suit Molly. One thing’s for sure, and it’s that a lot of this arc of eldritch horror and Lucien’s rise to power was crafted for Taliesin specifically. 

You can see how excited he gets in certain moments with Lucien, how shocked and invested he is when that little shard of Molly bleeds through. Wherever Nonagon’s story ends, I hope Taliesin is happy with it. Similarly, I think a part of why Matt is able to show these little echoes of Molly in Lucien so well is because he knows Taliesin, and ultimately knows where he wanted to go with the character. 

As for whether Molly would’ve ever become the Nonagon himself had he lived, I feel like he was somehow spared from that fate. Partially because I feel his soul is now his own, and so he wasn’t corrupted by the Somnovum the way Lucien was. Partially because Lucien’s death might’ve temporarily severed his body’s connection with the Somnovum. Because, even with all nine Eyes, Molly was never tormented by any of Cognoza’s dreams. He wasn’t tortured by the screaming chorus or all seeing eyes in countless nightmares, didn’t get any strange abilities from the Eyes. For all intents and purposes, they were just...inactive for him. And I’m incredibly grateful he was able to avoid losing himself to this like Lucien. 

After watching the most recent episode, the Nonagon as his own character and as an extension of Lucien and Molly--well, he’s even more of a mystery to me. But I do have some thoughts. 

Something about all the Somnovum and Lucien begging the Nein to join them, to become one with them, to share in their life and power...I don’t know, it feels like an echo of when Molly was empty. Wistful, longing, desperate to hold onto something that feels real. Mollymauk found that: “Joy can fill an awful lot in a person’s life.” But this city can feed and feed, yet it will never be full. It’s cold, dead, all consuming. Empty.

Lucien the Nonagon still longs for the Nein, I think. To be near them and keep them by his side. It’s from Molly’s affection bleeding through, but processed and interpreted through Lucien’s own impressions. A bit warped and twisted by how he tries to rationalize it. “I feel like you all have some part to play still...like you’ve a use to me.” “Because try as I might, a part of me still likes them.” “Yes, that must be it. I needed witnesses...” 

They were merely more pieces to manipulate in this game of his--of course he didn’t kill them, they were useful. Or he needed an audience. Or he had to have witnesses. Time and again Lucien makes excuses for why he lets them live, lets them go, but still selfishly keeps them so close. “I left you alive? Why did I leave you alive?”

Lucien telling the Nein to join him, wanting to share in what he’s feeling with them, how he sounds so wistful and soft, “Come! It’s far prettier up here.” “I wish I could share it, but...you need to be with us. You have to be with the pattern.” Come see the view, just stop and rest awhile. It’s reminiscent of Lucien watching the sunrise with Caduceus, taking a moment to just breathe and enjoy something beautiful. 

He drives all his followers to their doom, yet still he clings to the Nein. Even after being corrupted by wasting away in Cognoza for years, shattered into broken fragments the Somnovum themselves pieced back together in their own distorted design. Lucien, the person he was before the Nonagon, whoever Cree once knew and called out to in her final moments--a part of him was a bit lost or lonely I think, desperately craving some way to stave off the “emptiness” in his own life. And maybe that was something he thought the city could provide. The power to turn dreams into reality, to grant any one of his desires. 

It’s strange, because...the Nonagon is this hungry, distorted presence of manipulation and control, an otherworldly entity that came here to obliterate the Somnovum and rule whatever remained of these ruins. The Lucien that was once a mortal man had long since been lost to this. That’s not even factoring in whatever compassionate shard of his soul was broken off and became Mollymauk. And yet, we see a gentler side of Lucien last episode, I think. He seems oddly welcoming when he sees the Nein. He wants them here with him, even if he can no longer understand why. Lucien, even while one with the Somnovum and the City, is still compelled to act on Molly’s feelings for the Nein--in his own distorted way. 

I think Lucien as the Nonagon, still feeling this ache from Molly’s heart, the way Mollymauk’s soul is still fighting and enduring within him...I think it means hope. More hope than I’ve had all campaign. Molly at least will survive this I think. And given that his soul was once part of Lucien’s, we can hope that maybe a part of Lucien’s heart, this glimpse into the better person he could’ve been--that lives on in Molly.