#the bastardry debate

[alicentsgf]

the Bastard Conundrum™

"but laenor claimed them"

yes but since everyone can see they're not laenors blood they cant get away with that unfortunately. if they did somehow look like laenor (or at least rhaenyra) things might have been different.

"why does that matter if it doesnt matter to laenor?"

because westerosi inheritance relies on marriage contracts and legitimate succession for stability; when a marriage between two houses is decided upon its with the expectation the union will produce children that are representative of a kinship and this works to keep peace and order. a major contract with house velaryon was broken by house targaryen whether laenor cares about that or not.

"but corlys and rhaenys are okay with it"

vaemond wasnt. rhaenys barely is. in the book multiple velaryons werent. its not just about family pride its about the instability caused. kinslaying is such a big deal because blood ties are all but sacred - theres a social contract - this idea you owe something to those with your blood and that those ties (usually) ensure you are safe with and supported by your kin. any velaryon not wanting a boy who isn't bound to them by blood on the driftwood throne is perfectly understandable because they have no reason to believe he feels any true loyalty to them. and regardless, we need to consider the precedent it sets for the realm as a whole if a child were allowed to inherit through a man it was known they werent the legitimate offspring of.

"but didnt viserys legitimise them?"

no. legitimisation is a formal process and viserys would have had to admit they were bastards and then legitimise them as strongs or targaryens. they could never be legitimised as trueborn velaryons because thats what they're already masquerading as.

"but he was the king. his word is law. he said they're velaryons."

viserys wasnt all powerful, he couldnt make anything true just by saying it. he had the power to change laws as king, but his contract with his lords was reciprocal - he had to keep to the agreed upon laws of the realm himself (this is why the doctrine of exceptionalism needed to exist for the targaryens to continue practicing incest). viserys would have had to actively change the law in order for his grandson to somehow legally inherit driftmark as the adopted son of laenor, but of course he couldnt do that so he just doubled-down on the lie surrounding their birth.

"these laws are archaic. laenor saw those boys as his sons"

yes. this is feudal world. their way of life is archaic in many ways. and yes this is apparent in how this society and their laws only recognises parentage through a blood tie. dura lex sed lex; the law is the law even if we dont like it, and breaking it has consequences regardless. as primitive as these laws seem they keep this particular world stable, and this situation threatens that stability. change and progress is all well and good, but placing a bastard on the throne by calling him trueborn would not be progress because it would do nothing to encourage recognition of the rights of other bastards (honestly it'd probably just get a lot of bastards killed by their trueborn siblings, now fearful of them posing a genuine threat to their inheritance).

"i dont like it"

thats fine but its still the lore of this world. sorry.

[vivacissimx]

vivacissimx meta masterpost ✧˖°

We're about at the time where a post like this makes sense. If you see any missing metas it's likely because I no longer (entirely) agree with either a premise or phrasing and I'd like to rework it at some point—or I forgot. Feel free to ask!

I've bolded metas which I believe to be the most sound or that highlight a critical point which is overlooked by most ASOIAF analysis I have read. I also use the tags #text and #gender-in-asoiaf.

The Starks and the North

how jon being a bastard shaped the relationships between ALL members of house stark

on the abuse debate

how jon snow internalized catelyn tully stark's ideals

jon snow's heroes: an evolution from AGOT to ADWD

on jon snow and the R+L=J reveal

on jon snow's attraction to men

on jon snow forgiving theon greyjoy

on jon snow weaponizing his own competence

jon snow & women at the Wall: the question of rape

sansa stark & foreshadowed false testimony

sansa and ned have a foil relationship to lyanna and rickard

arya IS like other girls

arya stark: death and balance

arya & jon underrated parallels

the textual significance of the arya/lyanna parallels

the importance of lyanna stark's crypt statue

how lyanna influenced ned's acts of love for his daughters

how ned stark would perceive daenerys targaryen

what would happen to ned if robert discovered R+L=J?

Daenerys Targaryen

every daenerys ever: how dany's claim of a throne is foreshadowed throughout house targaryen's history

on the healing power of fire

on the myth that daenerys targaryen ruined meereen's economy

on the myth of a diplomatic solution in meereen

daenerys & ser barristan selmy: found family!

daenerys & bran: putting the first/last chapters of AGOT in conversation

daenerys & tyrion: how their TWOW alliance may come about

House Targaryen

visenya the conqueror & the evolution of usurpation in house T

on rhaegar targaryen and the prophecy of TPTWP

on alysanne targaryen, and how viserra's betrothal/the aftermath unfolded

viserra, alysanne, & baelon: a web weaving

viserra & saera

Theon Greyjoy

theon's gender: always broken, always under construction

[NOTE: this is the meta on which all my other theon meta relies. If you read nothing else I have ever said about theon, please read this.]

roose bolton as (another) father figure to theon

why theon greyjoy did not go visit his mother

theon greyjoy and the myth of return

theon greyjoy and winterfell's mirroring in ADWD

House Lannister

jaime & tyrion's awareness of cersei being abused

cersei lannister's brothers rationalization of cersei as being complicit in her abusive relationship

on cersei lannister's idealization of rhaegar, & also her dysphoria

ASOIAF Misc

breakdown of the grand maester conspiracy

unreliable narrators (and why we NEED arianne martell POV)

jon connington's memory

Dance of the Dragons Era

rhaenyra targaryen's maladaptive relationships due to abuse

rhaenyra & daemon's gender troubles

on viserys naming (and keeping) rhaenyra as his heir

on the legality of claims of bastardry

alicent, criston, & daemon as rhaenyra's formative (abusive) influences

[but-a-humble-goon]

I love the way RWBY handles its villains. Most mainstream media makes the mistake of thinking a morally ambiguous villain is the same as a complex one. That's why you get stuff like the MCU's much lambasted villains who often raise good points and have legitimate grievances but who also kick a puppy every now and then to remind you that they're the badguy. RWBY comes in right out of the gate by saying 'these people are all despicable, their goals are entirely bad and there's practically no level of bastardry beneath them,' then the time that would otherwise be wasted debating morality is instead spent on a vastly more interesting question of why? What drives a person to be like this? What makes someone like that tick? There's a piece of writing advice Gail Simone once gave which is that there's practically no limit to how deplorable a character can be so long as we understand them. So long as that core nugget of understanding is there for us to latch on to, on some level it's possible to empathise with them. RWBY understands that very well, that a villain doesn't have be justified, or even likeable to be sympathetic, that the most profound thing you can say with a villain is that genuine pure evil is tragically human.

[horizon-verizon]

I’m a Filipina and I invite Alicent’s stans to live here where the Catholic Church wields enormous influence and see how they like it. Abortion is illegal in the Philippines, even in extreme cases of rape, incest, and even when the mother is guaranteed to die during childbirth. Divorce is illegal, trapping women in abusive and loveless marriages with no way out. And they can’t seek love somewhere else because the law criminalizes adultery and concubinage, and discriminates against wives. The crime of adultery can be committed only by a wife. The husband need only prove that his wife had sex with a man other than him. The crime of concubinage can be committed only by a husband and is more difficult to prove in court than adultery. The wife must prove that her husband has kept a mistress in the conjugal dwelling, or has had sex under “scandalous circumstances” or lived together with his mistress in any other place. The penalties are also quite different. For adultery, the wife may be imprisoned for up to 6 years and for concubinage, the husband may be imprisoned for up to 4 years.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/18/asia/philippines-abortion-ban-debate-women-rights-roe-wade-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-philippines-divorce-women-idUSKBN1HN046

https://deeply-thenewhumanitarian-org.webpkgcache.com/doc/-/s/deeply.thenewhumanitarian.org/womensadvancement/articles/2018/02/22/in-philippines-where-divorce-is-illegal-women-pay-the-price

https://republicasiamedia.com/decode-why-ph-infidelity-laws-discriminate-vs-women/

I doubt any tradcath will deign to read through the articles you provided, but these are still very useful and informative. Thank, you anon.

The "concubine" part shocked me NGL. Y'all are just giving me all the details about bastardry outside of the U.S., and I am so glad you are!

[daenerysoftarth]

am starting my bastardphobia master post and compiling sources (of which there are plenty) but im struggling with how to organize them. im debating whether or not to include these in one massive post or as a series of posts. regardless, i think the rough breakdown will be:

legal definitions of bastardry

historic and contemporary philosophies towards illegitimate children

stigma against unwed mothers and how it is intertwined with the stigma against illegitimate children

modern legal discrimination against illegitimate children broken down by continent, followed by modern social discrimination

historic discriminatory legislation towards illegitimate children in medieval europe

the economics of bastardry, inheritance, and the nuclear family from the middle ages to now

unwed mothers and bastardry through a feminist lens

the context of the word bastard, why it can be considered offensive and why wields considerable weight

dispelling common myths

observations of 'bastardphobia' in asoiaf fandom, why i made this post

conclusion

if any of my followers have their own thoughts or contributions, I'd be more than welcome to hear them

[gentlcmanscientist]

‘This sparks joy’ for a happy headcanon! Let’s hear one, please?

Cival sometimes sleeps in the camp’s washing basket.

[jekyllnahyena]

hmmmmmm wanna write a bit about Eisen and Jackal. 

Eisen basically decdided to take on a Padawan when he flew back from another mission, because he ‘wanted to try something new.’. And though it was very much a decision made on the fly, when that man commits, he commits. So he comes back, kinda watches all the younglings before deciding on the 13 year old, 2 m tall Jackal. It’s more of their vibe and the way they watch people that interests him, otherwise he doesn’t know too much about them. Eisen, for all his stubbornness and bastardry can make with anyone, he believes he can teach anyone, 

Jackal, at this point, is feeling the weird terror that they’ve already carried within themselves since their arrival, more acutely by the day. They passed out before they stepped food near the temple because of the flood of presences on Coruscant, they were unable to control their powers that let them read the mind of people so they can understand them. They do so because they’re deaf. It was an unconcious thing that has lead to a many people hurt, which they perceive as their constant existence. Their presence hurts, that’s how they were left behind by their mother, that’s how their father died, that’s how they landed in the temple. That is how they’ve contiuned to view themselves. So they have obliterated their boundaries in the name of being there for others, being a support for everyone they can, no matter how much it hurts them. Because to Jackal, that is their justification for existing. 

When Eisen steps in and tells them he has chosen them, it’s equally terrifying as it is exciting. Knight Adulyadej, he has never taken on a padawan until Jackal and it is the only thing holding him back from being granted the title of Master, is a strange figure in the temple, as he is barely there, spending most of his time off on mission as a diplomat. Eisen, at this point, has seen and been in completely war torn regions to help solve the conflict and invited to dinner parties for debates. It has made him even sharper and more cutthroat of an individual, the gap of terror and death and money branded into his skin. Nowadays, Eisen will argue with whoever grabs his attention and fight with anyone that has been dubbed even remotely ‘annoying’. But he does that with other adults and knights and masters. It’s a pratice he keeps up to either learn everything he can, or stay as sharp minded as possible. He’s an unnerving figure on a good day, his smile too toothy to be kind, the air about him filled with confidence that is almost stifling. His presence near the younglings has thus been pretty much non-existent. 

But Jackal sees no choice in the matter. They have been asked. They will follow. So they agree, knowing very little about the man that is to become their teacher.

Now, because that is actually the important point between the two. Eisen, despite the Everything that he exudes on the day to day, is gentle, and loving, and takes care of Jackal and leads them through their worst moments with the surety of a shining freight train. He has decided to take on the responsiblity of training a padawan and he’ll damn sure do the best job possible. That includes respecting and being there for said padawan, in all their needs. Eisen’s first plan of action was to train Jackal to become a diplomat, just like him. Their observational power and emotional intelligence would’ve made them very good at the job, as they are able to pin point problems and think up solutions that they manage to make the other party believe they came up with. They know how to be uplifting while gently calling into question all the little thoughts a person has while disguising it as that persons’ archievemnt and thoughts. This never comes to fruition, because Jackal hates it in all honesty. Yes, they enjoy that they can hold a conversation with anyone and have them talk about their deep, personal problems and ideas because people trust them. No, they will probably go insane if they have to deal with another politician. 

Eisen enjoys these games because he enjoys verbally and psychologically dissecting people like a frog. For Jackal, they learn that it takes an incredible amount of emotional energy. Yes, they can. No, they don’t want to.

And when they tell him so, they are terrified. Jackal believes that they finally managed to dissappoint the one person that has actively chosen them. But Eisen sits them down, has them argue their points after which he nods and explains to them that of course he’ll continue to train them. Jackal is his padawan, his child. Jackal does cry then, because the are safe and have been safe for three years already and they continue to be so with him. They have not let themselves think worthy of care and loving for a long time, but Eisen has proven beyond everything to them, that they may not even just exist, but live. 

They still struggles for a long time, but they make it a point to visit mind-healers on the regular and give themselves breathing room to sit back and just be.

Eisen was, and still is, very much their point of change, because he was the parent they’ve lost before, the care and strenght that they had given others and never let themselves feel and ultimately the person that has let Jackal learn how find stability in others and themselves. 

It’s funny, because when asked Eisen will say that that is no archievement, he was there for a child, nothing more, nothing less. But he’s very proud of what Jackal is and was and sees them has his kid that he will most definetely love till the end. 

They’re the only padawan he ever takes on. Eisen will say because he tried having a kid and that was enough. Jackal will grin and hug him in response. 

(also, if you make any even remotely negative comment about Jackal in Eisen’s vicinity, he’ll will fight you. That is HIS kid and only HE is allowed to berate them and how fucking dare you, they are absolutely PERFECT, come here so I can rip out your organs one by one-) 

[newvegascowboy]

Aaaand one more time for Red: Character Development 5, 9, and 22

5. Does your character achieve their main goal? If so, does achieving this goal satisfy them?

I guess if the goal is "make sure the Legion suffers" then, yeah, Red achieves it. Other goals such as "don't get arrested, tried, or run out of the Mojave on your ass, nearly dead, forced to leave behind the person you love".... not so much. it's a mixed bag.

9. What is your character passionate about? What are they indifferent to?

Red is.... indifferent to quite a lot. They don't like philosophy or debates about morality and will just get up and leave if the conversation starts getting too meta. it just bores them and they view endless wondering "why" kind of pointless.

I don't know if i would describe it as passionate, but Red likes to read and sing/play guitar.

22. How would you describe your character's story arc?

Local giant ginger asshole roams the wasteland causing problems for everyone. is shocked when the consequences of their actions come back to bite them. Who could've seen this coming? Everyone.

Jokes aside, Red's character arc is about coming to terms with the past - more specifically their past. Learning how to accept it and not be afraid of the unknown. There's more to life than fear and anger, but it's hard for Red to learn that when it's the easiest emotion for them to access. Also when "the unknown" is a lengthy past of bastardry and criminal behavior that has not been forgotten.

[dwellordream]

In a case of a noble couple having an out of wedlock child but later marrying, how is the stigma of bastardry deemed? Like Elaena and Alyn marry after the birth of the twins when he is rescued from the sea. Or Ashara is pregnant by Brandon/Ned, marries Catlyn, but Catlyn dies in childbirth and they later marry. Thoughts?

I think it would probably be pretty easy, depending on how wealthy/powerful the couple is, to insist that actually, they were married before the birth of their child, just in secret.

This was an actual thing that caused a lot of serious debate in medieval times, where the presence of a priest and a ceremony in church was not always considered necessary for a couple to be legally wed. Sometimes they could argue that binding words said in private and the exchange of rings was enough, particularly if they had people willing to testify that they witnessed it.

Obviously the longer you go between the birth of the child and making the actual argument that you are really already married, though, the more dubious this is going to look.

[bondsmagii]

Tell us about your OC [Redacted], how big of a bastard are they?

I’m just gonna use this as an excuse to introduce a bunch of my OCs using the highly scientific Bastard Rating System:

1/5: traces of bastardry2/5: traces of bastardry with selected examples of Extreme Bastardry3/5: many examples of Extreme Bastardry, but with Good or at least Necessary Reason; one or two moments of Just Plain Bastardry4/5: Just Plain Bastardry, with elements of Intentional Sadistic Bastardry5/5: King Bastard of Bastard Mountain, Let All Those Who Bear Witness Feast Upon His Bastardous Doctrine

so, with that in mind…

OC Bastardry Levels:

Zekiel Tozyehr: Shades of Magic OC for an Extensive AU of mine, Last Antari in Black London™, goin thru it, delightful accent, reads a lot, has spent a good portion of his life wishing Osaron would leave him alone, Bites Off More Than He Can Chew, definitely a badass and definitely doesn’t realise it until long after everybody else, did not see another human for two decades and therefore any interaction is bound to be wild. bastard rating: 3/5 (doesn’t seem fitting? you’ll see)

***

Yakov [yet to be last-named]: revolutionary for a good cause, does nasty deeds in name of said revolution, loves his wife, likes to stare at nature, Angsts over said deeds, sexy scars, many believe him to be the craziest motherfucker to walk Siberia since Rasputin, enjoys a good sunset. bastard rating: 3/5

Anatoly Roslyakov: one of Yakov’s second-in-commands, also a revolutionary for a good cause, Gets His Hands Dirty So You Don’t Have To, has literally no bad feelings over it whatsoever, is well aware that he’s like that as a person so takes one for the team, most reviled member of the squad but gives good honest no-nonsense advice, good husband, great dad, too smart for his own good. bastard rating: 4/5

Anastasia [yet to be last-named]: the other of Yakov’s second-in-commands, Mad Lad, absolute nutcase, 4′11 goblin, WILL use your assumption that her height renders her harmless to headbutt you in the kidneys, bisexual icon, loves her grandma, will kill a man if necessary but doesn’t feel the Rush Of The Kill, likes to play piano and sing maudlin songs at parties, if you Soviet historians out there think she sounds familiar it’s because she’s his great-granddaughter. bastard rating: 3/5

Nadezhda Sharonova: Literature Bitch™, absolutely the only person in this group with brain cells, God She Puts Up With A Lot, ends up way out of her depth but comes out swinging, A Bitch Has Anxiety, good poetry will make her cry, if you debate her she’ll probably put a pencil behind her ear and then point her newly free hand at you and you know you’re dead, very against murder but shit gets wild sometimes. bastard rating: rare non-bastard

***

Percival “Percy” Mulholland: decadence & aesthetic baby, wears Gucci, billionaire at like age 20 but is cool about it, can and will fly all his friends to some fancy location to stay on his fucking yacht, thirty-seventh in line to the British throne, so full of love probably against his best interests, Thot, Part-Time Himbo, nerd, Has A Lot Of Demons, will always be found lounging on a piece of furniture with wine. bastard rating: 3/5

Reuben Sjöberg: as a 6′7 albino person who always wears white he is well aware of the fact he’s probably the most interesting person you’ll ever see, Has A Dreadful Secret, too manipulative for his own good, Sounds Good In Theory But Wait What The Fuck Reuben, terrible ideas abound, Source Of All Trouble, Swedish but speaks better English than anyone in the group. bastard rating: 4/5

Adrian Urquhart: small, gay, will fight you through tears, knows all the gossip at all times, pretty much knows everything about everything, might not tell you until it’s too late, Heretic Catholic™, Spite is a Good Motivator, needs a nap, could probably benefit from a little more backbone, Crouching Introvert Hidden Thot. bastard rating: 2/5

Charlotte Brown: very pretty and very unassuming, knows it, dresses like she wandered out of the fae realm, seems dreamy and distant but never misses a single fucking beat, if she can’t smooth an argument out nobody can, Theatre Bitch™, when at parties she’s lowkey always looking for an excuse to throw her drink over somebody in outrage. bastard rating: 2/5

Niamh Connolly: from Belfast and will not soften her accent for the sake of the poor posh bitches around her, here to cause A Ruckus™, punk lesbian icon who absolutely has punched a Nazi, very strong morals that cause a lot of trouble down the line, probably the only person in the group who’se not a fucking nutcase, very outspoken, letting her drive is not recommended. bastard rating: 2/5

***

Aidan Mirza: Dumbass Narrator™, very gay, grew up constantly wishing for an adventure and boy did he get it, Supernatural Abilities [wiggles fingers while saying ‘OoOoOoOhhh’], too loyal for his own good, I Just Hate This Town Yanno?, lives with A Lot, calm on the outside screaming on the inside, means well but what the fuck. bastard rating: 2/5

Vertigo “Tigo” Havlíček: green hair don’t care, named after a literal carnival ride and not even mad about it, heir to a cursed funfair and is a bit mad about that, Even More Supernatural Abilities, sees too much, Am I The Only Person Going To Do Anything Around Here?, may be responsible for dozens of deaths but he can explain he swears, probably could do with admitting there’s a problem sooner. bastard rating: 3/5

***

Cameron Torrance: anger issues out the ass, disgruntled night shift cashier, alcoholic, Me? Traumatised? Ha!, serious violent PTSD that he will NOT acknowledge, murderer (self-defence), murderer (dealing with some things), You Ever Just Look Around And Think ‘This Might As Well Happen?’, very fucked up confused and oftentimes rancid morals, probably survives by remembering he’s not as bad as Jasper. bastard rating: 4/5

Jasper Tuozzo: runs a deep web murder room, lives to torment the shit out of Cameron, night shift milk delivery driver with a great discomfort of driving at night, smokes like a chimney and will bum cigarettes whenever he can, murderer (because it’s fun), nasty trauma in childhood but sincerely not enough to explain this, hasn’t given a fuck about anything since 1987. bastard rating: 5/5

Francis “Frankie” Morrison: university student, tired, very cute, gets excited if asked to accompany someone on errands, somehow Cameron’s boyfriend and somehow loves him dearly, worries a lot, far too innocent for his own good, cooks for people, hilarious bastard, god knows what he’s doing with these other two freaks. bastard rating: rare non-bastard

[vincent-frankenstein]

Shatter

Chapter Eleven: Sunrise, Sunset

Summary: Logic is a storm. He’s a furious fire, raging deep inside; thunder strong enough to tear the mindscape to pieces, lightning bright enough to take control. And the storm grows with each time he’s ignored or disregarded, each time his so-called “family” pushes him aside. This is a golden opportunity — how could Rage not take it?

When lightning strikes, Deceit is left to pick up the shattered pieces left behind. The light sides are the only ones who can stop Logic and take Rage off his throne, the only ones who can save Thomas. Deceit just has to fix the damage Logic wrought. He just has to bring back the light.

(And maybe, maybe fall in love with them in the process.)

Warnings: violence, manipulation, blood, corruption, sympathetic deceit, villain logan, swearing, dark side ocs, basically just logan and rage being ASSHOLES and hurting everyone including thomas

Pairings: eventual DAMP (starting with Roceit, then Moceit, and finally Anxceit)

{ Read on AO3 | Prologue | Chapter One | Chapter Two | Chapter Three | Chapter Four | Chapter Five | Interlude | Chapter Six | Chapter Seven | Chapter Eight | Chapter Nine | Chapter Ten }

@dante1138 @unlikelynightmareconnoisseur @dealings-ofthe-raven @nerdypandastuff @sammy-the-eye @spirits-in-my-thoughts  @c0re0psis @just-a-baby-bee-witchblr @theultimatemomfriend @brownie-aunt (lmk if u wanna be added to/removed from the taglist!)

reblogs > likes

“What’s your favorite Disney movie?”

Deceit stood by the window, twirling a shard of broken glass between his fingers as he looked out on the frozen kingdom below. The question slipped out before he could stop himself, but he couldn’t help but hope that it would prompt something, some form of conversation, something other than the silence they’d been trapped in since Roman woke up.

“What?” Roman asked, voice hoarse. He was still curled up on the bed, his eyes closed, his face streaked with dry tears.

“Come now. You are the mindscape’s resident Disney nerd, right?” Deceit turned, leaning back against the windowsill. “Which is your favorite?”

“I don’t know. The broken passion from the night before had died out, replaced with a dry, grating self-loathing. It was a far cry from the excitement Deceit had expected the topic of Disney to elicit, which disappointed him a little. If even Disney couldn’t prince back some semblance of the man Roman used to be, what could?”

He sighed. “I’m not partial to Aladdin,” he continued, if only to have something to do. Roman opened his eyes, shooting Deceit a moment’s glance. His brow furrowed.

“Figures you would, Jafar,” he muttered, and Deceit rolled his eyes, a tiny glimmer of hope building in his chest. It was a weak nickname, no wordplay involved or anything, but it was a start. He could even ignore the villainous comparison — the completely accurate villainous comparison.

“While I do adore Jafar’s slimy aesthetic,” he began, lowering himself gently into the armchair and wincing when his leg twinged in protest, “he’s not the only reason I enjoy the movie. The plot is based around lie after lie after lie! Our dear protagonist is just as, ah, ‘slimy’ as I am.”

“No, he’s not!” Roman burst out. He froze, the flare of passion dying on his tongue, and shifted to sit against the headboard, drawing his knees up to his chest. “Aladdin lied for a good cause,” he said, and his voice was still hollow, but it was the first full sentence he’d said in quite a while that didn’t involve insulting himself, so. Progress.

“Wow, so lying can be used for good? Fascinating,” Deceit deadpanned.

“That’s not what I —” Roman rolled his eyes, a heavy sigh falling from his lips. “He lied for love.”

“Well, can’t relate there,” Deceit said smoothly, shifting to lay sideways across the chair. He looked at Roman upside-down, an easy smirk falling into place on his face. He didn’t have to be himself after all — all he had to do was take a page out of good ol’ Virgil’s book. Nothing got Roman more heated than disagreeing with him on his precious Disney movies, after all. “‘Pure’ as his intentions might have been, you cannot deny that the movie is based around lies.”

“It’s — it’s based around being yourself!” Roman said. “Despite what others may think of you! It’s about how t-there’s worth in everyone, even a ‘diamond in the rough!’”

Deceit raised an eyebrow, lifting a hand to cover his mouth in shock. “Really?” he gasped, voice thick with mock-surprise. “Everyone has worth? Even if some people don’t think so? Wow, I wonder if a moral like that could be applied to the situation at hand?”

Roman inhaled sharply, whatever retort he’d been planning dying on his tongue. He glared at a spot on the bed, face darkening, and victory blossomed in Deceit’s chest — but then he sighed, the anger fading from his face. “That doesn’t apply here,” he said. “I don’t count as a ‘someone.’ I’m not even an individual.”

Deceit fought the urge to scream. They had actually been getting somewhere! Leave it to Insecurity to bring them back to square one. “If a fictional character can count as an individual enough for you to debate his self-worth, so can you.”

Roman laughed humorlessly. “Bold of you to assume I have self-worth.”

Deceit sighed. “Roman —”

“You wanna know the difference between me and Aladdin?” Roman cut him off, throwing his arms out to the sides. “He has redeeming qualities!”

“Really,” Deceit deadpanned. “You’re saying the man who lied to practically everyone he met, stole on a regular basis, hurt the genie, manipulated the woman he ‘loved’ and put the entire city of Agrabah and possibly the whole world in danger has more redeeming qualities than you? That’s a laugh and a half.”

“He owned up to it!” Roman cried. “He made mistakes, sure, but he worked to redeem himself! He fixed the mess he’d made! I’ve never —”

“Yes you have!” Deceit yelled. He cleared his throat, taking a deep breath. “You’re telling me you’ve never made amends for your past mistakes? You’ve never attempted to, say, apologize to and include a certain ostracized side after you realized the way you were treating him was wrong? You’ve never worked to redeem yourself in the eyes of those you care about?”

Roman opened and closed his mouth again and again, fighting to respond. Deceit pushed on before he could. “It is in my nature to know the difference between lies and truth,” he said, with a pointed stare. “You have worth. That is not a lie.”

In the sunset’s glow, the tears gathering at the corners of Roman’s eyes seemed to sparkle. Deceit opened his mouth to say more, and then froze, his eyes widening. He whirled around, a grin growing on his face, hope blossoming in his chest.

The sun was setting.

“...Deceit?” Roman managed, voice thick and broken, and Deceit couldn’t bring himself to respond. He couldn’t tear his eyes away from the sight before him. The wind was blowing, the trees were moving, clouds glided slowly through the sky — and the sun was setting. Time had jerked back into motion, which meant the Imagination realm was regaining some semblance of normalcy, which meant he was getting through to Roman, which meant —

“What’s going on?” Roman joined him at the window, eyebrows furrowing as he looked out at the kingdom he’d created. Deceit laughed before he could stop himself, relief coursing through the noise.

“Time is working again,” he said, voice just above a whisper. “It’s working! You’re — you’re listening to me!”

“What?” Roman stepped back, shaking his head. “No, I’m not!”

“You are! I’m so proud of you!” He froze, blinking. In his excitement at the prospect of getting closer to his end-goal, it had just… slipped out. A genuine compliment. It tasted strange on his tongue. Roman gasped softly, a million emotions crossing his face at once.

“Y-You —” He held his sash, not meeting Deceit’s gaze. “You shouldn’t be.”

He sat back on the bed, drawing his knees back up to his chest, and dread settled in Deceit’s stomach. What if time stopped working again? He watched the outside carefully, eyes narrowed, but the trees still rustled in the wind and the sun still set, painting the gray sky in shades of monochrome.

“And yet, I am,” Deceit said, the bitter taste of truth clogging his throat. He sank into the armchair, never tearing his eyes from the setting sun. “Funny how that works.”

Roman didn’t respond. Silence fell over the tower, and for a moment, Deceit thought that that would be the end of their conversation, and resigned himself to more empty quiet. But then Roman cleared his throat.

“What is your opinion on… Lilo and Stitch?” he asked.

An easy grin fell onto Deceit’s face. “Ah, Stitch. The epitome of chaotic evil bastardry. I’m not a fan.”

“Are you kidding? Stitch is totally chaotic neutral!”

[drferox]

zeroxz21 said to @ask-drferox: Are any dog breeds different enough from each other physiologically that a slightly different dietary composition would be beneficial/make sense? I remember my aunt's greyhound preferred cat food and that's what they gave her as she refused dog food; it is higher protein iirc and greyhounds are fairly lean and muscular I guess? Standard marketed food says no but I keep thinking about it anyway! Tax: Favourite native psittacine?

Favourite psittacine is definitely cockateils. They are smol for parrots but they are Fighty Bastards With Heart Of Gold And Possible Additional Bastardry which I personally find admirable and delightful.

There’s some debate about whether different purebred dogs benefit from different dietary compositions. Some if it’s myths and wishful thinking, some of it is related to metabolism, work and nutrigenomics, and some of it is related to mouth shape.

There is a degree of “my dog’s really a Wolf and I’m gonna feed it like one!” or “my pedigree moochikins is a breed that can only handle the finest X!” and I haven’t the heart to tell them that their pet eats garbage and poop given half the chance. You know, whatever makes them feel their pet is special I guess.

It is important to note that a dog is not a wolf, you do not have to feed it like one, and they have approximately 40 times the genes for producing amylase. Given that some of our purebred dogs have been maintained as basically separate genetic populations for multiple generations, some with significant pressures to achieve certain feats or performances, there are some metabolic differences between breeds, and some do benefit from different styles of nutrition.

For example the miniature schnauzer gets pancreatitis very easily, which is often precipitated by fat in the diet. While obviously avoiding things like bacon would be wise, they may benefit from a long term diet which is lower than fat than other breeds do, even if the dog isn’t any skinnier.

This gets a lot more technical with some of the Royal Canin diets, which contain various supplements for common illnesses for those breeds. It’s probably a little more fine tuning than most pets strictly need, but if the pet likes it, there’s no problem.

Mouth shape is possibly the biggest difference when it comes to diet. A chihuahua does not want the same shape of food as a great dane, or a labrador. Kibble shape or food texture can vary a lot between food, which makes sense given the extreme variety of skulls in the dog breeds.

The more inbred pedigree dogs become, the more likely they are to accumulate deleterious (negative) genes, and some of those genes we can compensate for with targeted supplemental nutrients. But for some it’s just their faces are shaped strangely and they like to chew a certain way.

[leviloviatar]

Do you think that we will find out more about Gendry's mother. For some reason I think she is important especially for Gendry's future. We know very little about her. We don't know her name or how she died. For some strange reason I think Vary's knows exactly who she is and maybe is the reason why he saved Gendry first. I don't think his mom is Cersei (stupid theory btw) but I think his mom could be a Blackfyre, Targ bastard or Lannister bastard or some other highborn bastard.

First of all hi lovely anon and thanks for the ask! I actually have another anon ask on the same topic, so I’m just going to include that here and try to answer both at once:

Ok, so my short answer is, no, I don’t think Gendry’s mother is a highborn, and I definitely agree with both of you that its not Cersei. Here’s why:

For one thing, if Gendry’s mother were a highborn, the entire situation would have been under a lot more scrutiny. Remember Robert’s very naughty behavior at Stannis and Selyse’s wedding that led to the birth of Edric Storm? Because Edric’s mother, Delena Florent, was a noblewoman (Selyse’s cousin, the niece of Lord Alester Florent) Robert was forced to officially recognize Edric. House Florent is one of the bigger houses sworn to House Tyrell, but its not as prominent as, say, House Lannister or House Targaryen. So just imagine if Robert had impregnated a member of one of those houses, it would have been  a pretty big fucking deal and he would have had to recognize the child. 

So yeah, I also have to agree with both of you that whoever Gendry’s mother is, it is definitely not Cersei. I’ve seen this theory floating around and every time I come across it, I cringe a bit. 

To be honest, the Cersei theory only really works (if it works at all) in the show, because we hear Cersei tell Cat about her first child dying, ‘a beautiful black haired boy,’ and, if they choose to believe that she’s being truthful in that moment (debatable), show viewers can speculate that the boy was rescued by Varys, adopted by the tavern wench, and grew up to be Gendry, making him legitimate, etc. But even then, I think this theory still falls flat considering that the baby would have been given away as infant, and its pretty unlikely that Gendry would have any memories of his mother from his infancy. 

And the entire theory goes out the window as far as the books are concerned:

“A dozen years,” Ned said. “How is it that you have had no children by the king?”

She lifted her head, defiant. “Your Robert got me with child once,” she said, her voice thick with contempt. “My brother found a woman to cleanse me. He never knew. If truth be told, I can scarcely bear for him to touch me, and I have not let him inside me for years. I know other ways to pleasure him, when he leaves his whores long enough to stagger up to my bedchamber. Whatever we do, the king is usually so drunk that he’s forgotten it all by the next morning.”

-A Game of Thrones, Eddard XII

Thus, in the books, the child Cersei talks about is never even born.  

Here is basically everything we know about Gendry’s mother from the canon:

The boy shoved a fresh fall of black hair off his forehead. “She died when I was little. She had yellow hair, and sometimes she used to sing to me, I remember. She worked in an alehouse.”

-A Game of Thrones, Eddard VI

That’s not a lot to go on, but I think that’s intentional on GRRM’s part. 

The real significance of Gendry’s mother being yellow-haired, to my mind, is to further solidify the proof of Gendry’s lineage, especially to Ned as he conducts his investigation. This is another way GRRM is taking great pains to show us that Gendry is the spitting image of his father. Had his mother also had dark hair, there could have been more room for debate, but its important that both the reader and Ned understand that the signature Baratheon-black hair comes directly from the Baratheon bloodline, and that genetic trait is so strong that it literally masks any corresponding trait from the mother:

The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon’s tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy. Thirty years before that a male Lannister had taken a Baratheon maid to wife. She had given him three daughters and a son, each black-haired. No matter how far back Ned searched in the brittle yellowed pages, always he found the gold yielding before the coal.

-A Game of Thrones, Eddard XII

So: blonde mom + Baratheon sperm = black-haired Baratheon baby, every time

The truth is, we know very little about Gendry’s mother from the canon material because she doesn’t really serve any narrative purpose other than to function as a way to prove that Gendry is Robert’s son. By contrast, Gendry’s illegitimacy plays a critical part in his character development and narrative arc, and for him to ultimately be a legitimate son and heir would seem to completely undermine that, not to mention it would likely be altogether underwhelming in the face of the grand reveal of R+L=J and all its ramifications. (There’s also Edric Storm, Robert’s recognized bastard, to think about in terms of claimants to the throne, or what’s left of it after the war for the dawn anyway). The fact that he’s Robert’s son is going to be shock enough to cause Gendry to confront his conceptions of highborns, social class, and his place in the world for purposes of his character development and furthering the narrative, so it doesn’t seem likely to me that GRRM would suddenly reveal Gendry’s mother to be a highborn. 

It would be interesting, I think, if his mother turned out to be a bastard herself, which could add another layer to Gendry’s issues with bastardry and the way bastards are viewed in Westerosi society. But, tbh I don’t think we will ever hear any more about her. I think she is exactly as she was described to us. A blonde who worked in an alehouse. Unremarkable, except for the fact that she gave birth to a King’s bastard, who grows up to be quite remarkable in his own right. I really don’t think that revealing her to be Someone Important later on would serve any narrative purpose, at least in terms of the way the story is going right now (in the books, anyway, I have no fucking idea where the story is going in the show since the plot has devolved into random  nonsensical inconsistencies and Shock Value twists). 

Though I do agree with the anon that mentioned that Varys probably knows exactly who Gendry’s mother was, so if we do ever get anything further on Gendry’s mother, it would probably be from him. 

All that being said, however, I would love to hear more about your theory that she might be a Blackfyre or another highborn bastard, and if you guys have any other theories about this I would love to hear them! 

[horizon-verizon]

Olympe de Gouges, one of the pioneers of French feminism, did not fight for the rights of natural children in 1790 for conservative idiots in 2023 to throw a neverending tantrum over fictional “bastardry”.

Greens tans would probably drag this woman for just saying that a woman, who already has the right to be killed by revolutionaries or the state, also should have the right to speak in public debates and participate in politics independently. Because most of the reading comprehension is nonexistent.