#the oldest game

[levionok]

Neil-verse goes brrrr

[thenightling]

“The Oldest Game”

   I was surprised to find someone in my Sandman Facebook group actually complaining about “The Oldest Game” in The Sandman Netflix series (episode 4).  They seemed disappointed that it wasn’t a “Real” battle but instead it was “like watching them play Dungeons and Dragons.”  Meanwhile the majority of us Sandman fans loved the scene.  When I first read that scene that was when I knew I was reading something truly different from the usual DC content.  I was reading something truly special.          To the person complaining about it, I am afraid The Sandman might not be to your taste.  There is very little physical combat and scenes like The Oldest Game / “I am Hope” are what hooked a lot of us.

       The Oldest Game is based on something TV Tropes (and The Sword in the Stone) calls a “Wizard’s Duel” or a Wizard Duel.  The concept turns up a lot in folklore and mythology.  It’s where two magical entities (sometimes sorcerers, sometimes Gods, sometimes shapeshifters) have a duel of wits and creativity using their powers and imagination.   There’s a similar trope called the Transformation chase and there is an overlap but the transformation chase usually requires there being a chase.  You see a sort of single-person transformation chase in Dungeons and Dragons: Honor Among thieves.  

     In The Sandman this battle was for Morpheus’s helm.  If he won he got his helm back.  If Morpheus lost he would have been enslaved by Choronzon The Demon.

     Here’s how the game usually works. The challenged usually gets to make the first move. They pick a form or a spell and it is usually non-lethal.  You’re supposed to start small and build up to bigger / more imposing things.  The battle follows TBL (Turn based Logic) like in a tabletop or online text based role playing game. So the Dungeons and Dragons comparison isn’t actually wrong so much as it’s not quite the right role playing game.  (Yes, I AM a nerd. Thank you for noticing.)  

     After the first move is made the opponent may take the hit and then make an offensive move (attack) in return or instead of taking the hit, they can make a defensive counter move to avoid taking the hit but in doing so the person loses the opportunity to make a offensive move.  If you’re clever you can sometimes get away with a single move that does both but that is tricky.   So the choice is usually take damage and attack or protect from damage and not attack until the next turn.  The game is usually about “one upping” the opponent so you go for something slightly bigger and better than what they used.  

     In some versions of the game you are allowed to defend yourself and then make an attack move during the same turn so you don’t have to make the choice of defense or attack. In both variations, if you’re clever enough you can come up with a combo of attack and defense in one move but that’s rare.  

      Usually it’s like this.  If your opponent throws a magical dart, you can create a shield or shoot a similar projectile but in some variations you can do both if you can pull it off in a single concept (like creating an armored knight holding a sword and shield). If the rival turned into a rat, you can turn into a cat.  Hopefully you get the idea.  You can’t go too big too fast or the creativity and strategy the game is known for is lost.  It’s a game of wits and creativity after all, not really brute force.   

     Recently I have seen some people try to argue that during the Lucifer and Morpheus version of the duel that Despair can kill Hope and that Lucifer could have won if she was willing to say she is Despair.  No, that may have just caused an unhappy stalemate because pretty much everything that can destroy Hope can also be destroyed by Hope.  Hope kills Despair as surely as Despair kills Hope.  They are two sides of the same coin after all.  It would just be an infinite loop at that point.  However there is also the argument that Hope springs eternal while Despair is always only temporary, depending on your perspective.  

      I have provided three pop culture examples of The Wizard’s Duel.   The first is the version in Netflix’s The Sandman between Lucifer and Morpheus.

The second is from Disney’s Sword in the Stone between Mim and Merlin.  

The third is from the 1963 film The Raven starring Vincent Price and Boris Karloff.  I have a bias in favor of this one since I love this movie. It was written by the late Richard Matheson, directed by Roger Corman, and starred Vincent Price. It came out the same year as Disney’s The Sword in the Stone.    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZOwaeAEIw0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxqhjWcS8zQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gBhMdJ23Q

[drdomo-gem]

Sandman vs Satan in Extreme Rock, Paper, Scissors

Script by @beastalchemistva

Check out the dub here!

[cloversreblogs]

[holmesandtheroman]

girls don’t like boys. girls like fallen angels who say “I am anti-life. The Beast of Judgement. The dark at the end of everything” with the calmness and quiet of the center of a black hole

[embervoices]

*Wakes up long enough to mutter*

Lucifer is the Father of Lies who existed before physical forms. Dream contains all stories, has no true physical form. Of course the Oldest Game is shaping existence through storytelling. Of course it's Lucifer's strongest weapon against Dream.

But Dream contains ALL stories. Of course Lucifer's lies aren't enough.

[arielthedaydreamer]

-I am a dire wolf. Prey stalking, lethal prowler

The hero took a deep breath. She was actually doing this, then. But he wasn't.

-I am the wolf's cub. Love inspiring, protection seeking.

-What? -The villain frowned and rolled her eyes.- That's not how you-- whatever. I am a hunter. Gun firing, cub slaughtering.

He nearly fell as the bullet hit him. The would appeared quite serious, but he kept going.

-I... am a dog. Hunter following, loyalty nurturing.

-Oh, please. Don't make this more difficult than it should be. I am a cancerous cell, ever spreading, life ending.

It was getting hard to breathe, but he managed to say.

-I am a patient, health seeking, cancer defeating.

He could breathe again. A small burn showed up in the villain's face. It did not seem to hurt her much. But her face still darkened.

-Finally. I am depression. Thought darkening, life extinguinshing..

-I--- -He started to say. But was there a point?Was it worth it to try? He was about to die anyways. And perhaps it would be for the best

But still, he tried. He got in his knees and pulled out the small box from his pocket.

-I am a lover. Heart healing... ring pulling, marriage proposing.

The villain was speechless for a while. The feelings bubbled inside her and she could not tell whether or not they were part of the game. She smiled at how ridiculous the scene was.

-What are you doing, you idiot? I'm actually gonna kill you now, you know?

-So do it. -Said the hero. -It's your move.

The villain shed a tear.

-I am a wife. -She said, finally. -Ring wearing, marriage accepting.

They finally kissed.

[merinsedai]

Day 27- beasts

From the sandtober prompts by @orionsangel86

The oldest game

‘I am a serpent. Horse biting… poison toothed.’

‘I am a bird of prey. Snake-devouring, talons ripping.’

Added Lucifer and Dream on v quickly… for context I guess. Faces were a no go today it seems.

[amphetamine-keen]

The Oldest Game sequence is so fascinating to me. Partly just the way the game works, being a duel with no physical movement, but more than that.

I am enamored with the way that Dream wins.

Dream doesn't win because he (or the Endless in general) is stronger than fallen angels. (though I suppose that would be true were Dream at full strength), and he doesn't win because he's more clever than Lucifer either.

No, Dream wins because he is a fundamentally different person, and that reflects in his play choices.

I like to divide the scene into two parts.

The first starts when Lucifer plays? embodies? a Direwolf. And for the first part of the sequence, Dream is just responding to Lucifer's plays. A Direwolf vs a Hunter. A Serpent vs a Bird of Prey.

And maybe it was a mistake on Lucifer's part or the only way the game could continue, but when Lucifer plays the Butcher Bacterium, the first move that isn't a really tangible thing, it changes the game.

This is what I call the second part. You'll notice that, after the Bird of Prey, none of Dream's moves hurt Lucifer. Unlike the Morningstar's moves, Dream's plays aren't weapons. Not one of them. In fact, they're the opposite.

Dream doesn't win by overpowering Lucifer, or even outsmarting him. In fact, the game is most likely rigged in Lucifer's favor. The problem is that the game is rigged on the assumption that there is only one way to play the Oldest Game: To be the biggest, baddest, most destructive thing imaginable.

Lucifer, just by nature of who and what he is, could never have won against someone like Dream.

And that probably makes Lucifer's loss even more humiliating. It's one thing for the ruler of hell to be overpowered by an Endless, to be left bleeding and possibly dying. That would be humiliating too, but it is nothing compared to losing to something as "pathetic" as hope.

(if Dream had been the one to play 'anti-life' then I think that Lucifer also would have lost just because he doesn't understand the power that hope holds, even as someone who was once an angel)

[can-of-pringles]

I'm sorry I had to

[damnednyx]

Watch "The Sandman's Tom Sturridge & Gwendoline Christie React to Dream vs. Lucifer Fight | Netflix" on YouTube

The single most best reaction video from actors I've ever seen. They're literally just saying shit and i love that for them

[non-viral-memes]

The Oldest Game

Loved The Oldest Game episode, with one caveat. No, not Lucifer stepping in as champion... the fact that Morpheus' winning move came across as resulting from a hint from Matthew... as if the Dream Lord was about to lose. Morpheus figured out Choronzon's strategy early on, and guided the demon into a trap. It wasn't a last-minute desperate win, but a predetermined and well executed plan. Dream of the Endless was never going to lose the Oldest Game to a Johnny-come-lately demon... PS: I hope that this doesn't sound like I'm bitching about the show - this is the only thing that jumped out at me in four episodes of a very difficult to achieve adaption. It's awesome.

[beastalchemistva]

The one where Dream and Lucifer play the oldest game. Art by the incredible @arlospace! Please check herr out!

And please like and share if you enjoyed this!

[cloversreblogs]

I can never compete in The Oldest Game— I’d do a yo mama joke immediately

[iblamebuckybarnes]

Saw someone describe the battle of the oldest game between Morpheus and Lucifer as basically

"I know you are, but what am I"

[poppy-in-the-woods]

It's all fun and games until someone says "I am hope".