#the only time i will say that you shouldn't ever condone a ship

[terrence-silver]

What are your personal S5 predictions?

(Okay, I'm going to predict deliberately infuriating and stupid things)

― We get another pointless love triangle shoehorned in. Maybe from Miguel in Mexico? Some random girlfriend who coaxes him not to go back home ever again, yada, yada, because your father is big here and everything the light touches is his kingdom. Nobody asked for this and it comes out of left-field but I'll undoubtedly cause another shipping war. Or it'll get promptly forgotten which is even funnier because the show will really try with this.

― Stingray the Manchurian Candidate.

― Carmen is relegated to crying over the phone. Amanda is relegated to standing with her hands on her hips, tapping her foot. Shannon is nowhere to be seen.

― Robby and Tory are weirdly neglected. So is the whole Hawk thing, in fact, the Hawk thing will be so mismanaged storywise, that at one point he'll say something like 'Maybe the Mohawk needed to be cut. Maybe it is better this way' and Daniel or whoever even bothers listening to this poor kid will be like 'Well, now you have truly grown. Prayer circle.' 😌

― John Kreese gets an assigned therapist in jail Tony Soprano and Doctor Melfi style. His flashbacks are told through his sessions --- the therapist in question will be able to undo over fifty years of dyed-in-the-bone batshit craziness and make John Kreese a near pacifist in only a few sessions (maybe through the power of love), only for him to revert back to his warmongering ways out of nowhere as quickly as he went mellow and none of it will make sense.

― The ghost of Mr. Miyagi shows up as a vision to confirm that, yes, waging a gang war is okay sometimes, so long if it is for the 'right reasons'.

― Sam goes through a Dark Night of the Soul and none of her family notices.

― Antony gets beat up by Cobras and none of his family notices either, in fact, when he comes to his father to complain, Daniel snaps at him again, tells him to shut up and be considerate because there's greater issues afoot. Antony steals Miyagi's scroll and runs off. Tries to follow Robby and Johnny to Mexico.

― Chozen turns out to be more violent and unhinged than Terry Silver himself, but for some reason, this time it is okay and morally justified by the narrative and the fandom itself. In fact, when it isn't presented through a sense of ethical high-ground, it is shown as comic relief. The Larussos have a quaint family dinner or an outdoors cocktail barbeque with him while he tells the Larusso children one should break their enemies, squeezing his fist shut for special emphasis. Amanda speculatively sips her wine with a raised eyebrow.

― ' This family never condoned violence, Mr. Toguchi. '

― We get a really uncomfortable scene of Demetri and Yasmine doing something unnecessarily sexual. They're at a lingerie store shopping for accessorises. Demetri's like 'H-hey, guys' while caught holding a red lacy bra while Yasmin's in the try-out cabin.

― The whole Kenny and Lia thing is deadass treated like they're Padme and Anakin for some reason. Kenny gets sucked into Cobra Kai, falling to the dark side and she sees the violence of his ways and shudders away from all of it and says something like 'I can't follow down this path'. It is great because they're literal babies.

― Johnny Lawrence infiltrates a drug den and an underground fighting ring with Robby and when Robby either gets hurt or concerned that this is risky and not really prudent and that they shouldn't proceed any further, Johnny gets snappy and says 'I thought you wanted father-son bonding time!' and 'C'mon! This happened in Rambo Last Blood, it'll be awesome! We can take them!' and Robby's treated like the unreasonable and ungrateful one, yes.

― Shannon's one appearance over the phone is like 'Robby, give your father a fair chance.' --- 'Mom, we're in an underground coke compound and... --- 'Your father always loved you, Robby. In his own way.'

― Miguel's found in his father's mansion actually kind of, sort of liking all of this --- maybe he's being fed grapes by a pool-side. That, or we really get the whole premise of Rambo: Last Blood beat by beat.

― Chozen falls for Kim Da-Eun; they have a skirmish, she delivers a kick to his face that splits his lip and he retorts with a 'What a woman!' while wiping off the blood.

― Terry bankrupts the Larusso Auto Dealership, right after driving Miyagi-Do out of business. He's at a board room with Amanda sitting opposite of him at a great big table, a stack of papers in front of her and she stands up and girlbosses by very poignantly pointing a finger and yelling.

[fairybonesandstardust]

As someone who ships canonically suggested same-sex consenting adult incest only but who adamantly refuses the “proship” label because I hate getting lumped in with the pedoshipping and lolisho crowd ——- THANK YOU for that extremely insightful post! I’m pleased to see nuance isn’t dead after all, I hate that I’m forced to share a label with people who literally condone the sexualization of children and it astounds me that braindead zoomers still insist on putting all “incest and pedo shippers” in the same box, as if they’re morally equivalent in any way and as if incest isn’t a spectrum that has the possibility to be equal, consensual and non-harmful whereas pedophilia literally never is.

This is the sort of nuance that’s sorely missing in the proship vs anti discourse, shipping like morality exists on a spectrum, some ships are more dubious than others but there’s a difference between shipping the most dubious and morally outrageous thing there is and shipping what might be deemed as just “mildly dubious/problematic.”

thank you. i got so much hate from that post and not even from anti's (i hate these terms so much) but from proshippers and granted i called some of them weird but dude i was literally saying you shouldn't be harassed.

i have a lot of thoughts on this but i'm very lazy and tired.

i think something pro shippers and anti's (i use these for clarification i gen don't know what else to use to this is the simplest way to put things) don't understand is how fiction reality intersect and exactly like you said morality exist on a spectrum.

reality and fiction are two very different things and yes sometimes fiction can affect reality. but it is not black and white i.e if i read murder mysteries it doesn't make me a murder or mean that i want to kill people. reading incest doesn't mean you want to fuck your sibling.

also i think if you consume nothing but lolicon or fucking true crime yeah its going to fuck with you. there was a dude on tiktok who cosplayed jeffery dahmer (yes he was white). the same goes for extreme horror books. the darker media you consume the more important it becomes to consume other forms of media.

this is why i think its so important to read, genuinely read feed your mind.

a very controversial opinion but i also have been on the internet for a very long time and no i'm not as old as most of you probably assume.

i can't express this enough but i hate lolicon and shotacon. i hate black butler. i hate sebciel stans. i hate the fact that we call it lolicon and shotacon.

i don't give a fuck if someone ships itadori and gojo or something like that. its the internet and yeah its not my vibes and i prefer if we aren't all over each other.

like you said morality exists on a spectrum.

at the end of the day its the internet and instead of harassing people just move on with your life. its really fucking annoying and your not even doing anything.

one last note don't call me a proshipper ever. i am not anti-censorship and i never will be. i believe in freedom of speech and creative expression as long as it doesn't not affect another human beings rights (like inflict harm and such). i will not elaborate on this stance.

[thejustmaiden]

I am pro-Sessrin and appreciate your analyses because you have valid points and convey them in a respectful way. I'm sorry that some of my fellow pro's aren't able to reciprocate, it really just makes us ALL look bad. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the fandom aren't capable of maturity - part of why I feel the need to be on anon as I don't want to get flamed. Sessrin IS problematic and shouldn't be condoned IRL, but ship what makes you happy and don't be an ass to strangers online.

Hey there, nonnie! If you're the same person who sent me that DM, then yes, we actually have crossed paths on one (maybe two?) occasions. I'm not sure if we've spoken directly with each other before, per se, but I do remember you all the same. Btw, you aren't taking messages which is why I couldn't reply. If you're not the person in my DM then my mistake! haha Regardless of who you are, I want to thank you for reaching out to me. 😊

I really appreciated your kind words. It means a lot coming from a sessrin shipper. After all, the goal of my blogs isn't to create more division than already exists between us but rather the opposite. If they're only meant for other antis, then what would be the point?

Plus, why would I want anything I post to add fuel to the already blazing fire? I'd prefer not to see this fandom continue to go up in flames over this ship if I can help it. Anyway, it's always a relief to hear I'm not the only one who feels this way!

A lot of us on both sides are clearly very invested in this, but we need to remember that spewing hateful remarks gets us nowhere. By no means am I perfect, but this is why I work even harder to make sure my blogs are as informative and objective as possible while refraining from name-calling. Otherwise, fans are way less likely to take anything I write seriously, which means everything I hoped to achieve goes right out the window.

There's just not enough good and healthy discourse taking place. I've seen and been a part of some, but it's too few and far between. We ought to do better, and I have no doubt more of us are capable of it, too. 😌

I agree, we all should have a right to ship whatever makes us happy. I think Sessrin shippers believe antis don't want that for them but that's NOT TRUE. It may not seem like it at times but please believe me when I say this:

ANTIS ACTUALLY DO ACCEPT YOUR CHOICE TO SHIP SESSRIN

We may not like it, but who are we to say you can't? What we don't accept however is how those shippers try to pass it off as some sort of pure and healthy relationship. Portraying a pairing that has very harmful grooming implications in a positive light is a big no-no. That's what so many of us- and not just victims of child abuse or Westerners- have been trying to tell you all along.

It's just like you said, Sessrin IS problematic and wouldn't be condoned in real life. So it should be represented as such, because sending the message that romance is a completely normal progression from the adult-child bond they established is plain wrong.

We need to keep in mind that there are many young viewers watching this show. And by young, I mean under 18. Although a lot them of them aren't technically Rin's age but older, that does not take away from the fact that they still lack the ability to fully think critically for themselves as they're still learning how. This makes them much more susceptible to the influence of predatory behavior. So if ever in a similar situation in real life, why wouldn't they be okay with it? If mainstream media keeps showing them it can be an acceptable and beautiful thing, then why shouldn't they believe the same? We're the adults putting this content out there in the first place, and it's our example they follow.

I totally get why some of you don't want to think too deeply about any of this since it can really start messing with your head. These fictional worlds are supposed to be an escape from our real world problems, right? Well yes, but only to a certain extent. It is still of the utmost importance we closely consider and properly address the major effects and correlations of fiction and real life, as well as the profound impact they can have on each other. They're significantly more linked than many of us realize. What else could explain why Antis react the way they do? We take it personally, because simply put, it is personal.

I'm known to be quite the rambler lol, so I think it's best for all of us if I stop myself here. Thanks again for this ask and also the DM (unless that wasn't you). You're more than welcome to read my other blogs on this topic if you haven't already- and that goes for all of you reading this. I'm interested to know if you have anything more you'd like to contribute to the conversation. Feel free to get back to me in DM, nonnie, if that's more convenient for you. No pressure, this is of course only if you want and feel comfortable in doing so. Alright, bye for now. Hope this finds you well!! 🖖

[bardqueenofgallifrey]

You reblogged post about romanticizing abusive relationships but you ship best enemies and basically everybody with Missy... Like you don't think it is a bit hypocritical? I understand having NOTP but you shouldn't throwing shade if you ship something equally bad or even more unhealthy

lmao are we really doing this?? ok so. the post in question says

oh no, i don’t condone abusive relationships! i just write, reblog, and create art, fanfic, meta, gifsets, and other content that portrays an abusive relationship as sexy, attractive, ideal, and the only true choice for each character. most of the time i put them in happy aus or situations despite claiming that i only ship them because of the angst! that’s not condoning abuse, you silly antis!

now, where to start with this

firstly, I have never ever said that any relationship involving Missy is healthy because obviously that isn’t the case because she’s evil af and no one should ever, ever actually want to date anyone like her

I might want her to rail me until I can’t move, but in real life I wouldn’t let her near me with a ten foot pole, I’m not an idiot

“portrays an abusive relationship as ideal” - Best Enemies is not an ideal relationship. It’s a doomed, tragic, unhealthy mess between two supremely fucked up individuals, and while they might share beautiful moments that give me nice soft feelings, nothing will change that fact. Any abusive tendencies that might surface in their relationship probably shift on a huge level depending on which one of them has the upper hand at the time. 

Any other ship involving Missy isn’t supported by canon enough to be anything more than the what the shippers/content creators make it out to be, but again, while there is obviously huge capacity for relationships involving Missy to be abusive, there is a difference between abusive and unhealthy, and there’s nothing wrong with unhealthy ships so long as you acknowledge them as such. 

“the only true choice for each character” I’m all about people shipping what they like, there’s no true choice for a character like Missy, her and the Doctor might have some big epic fucked up romance going on, but people shipping her elsewhere is fine

the post is about overly romanticising abusive ships, and I take my unhealthy ships (some of which, like Best Enemies, are rather romantic in nature in their whole Thing anyway) at face value

I might enjoy shipping a fucked up but emotionally complex psychopath with various different people, while being very aware of the fact that it’s not something anyone should ever want for themselves, because I possess the emotional maturity to enjoy complex relationship dynamics without idealising them like so many do

but please don’t try and lump me in with like, fucking R*ylo shippers or K*ramel shippers or whoever the hell that post was aimed at, thanks

[antthonystark]

1/2 "feel free to hate whatever fans or shippers you wanna hate" Wow. So you care about people putting words in an actor's mouth but you don't care whatsoever about people in your fandom being hateful and toxic towards other actual PEOPLE over fictional characters? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised about the sorry state of this fandom if even the supposedly "nice" people have this kind of attitude.

2/2 Will there ever come a day when you M@lec shippers will collect your fucking trash and clean up your end of the fandom? Or will you continue turning a blind eye to what’s going on as long as it’s only against shippers of the “wrong” ships? Cause, IDK, those people deserve it??

ok what the fuck lol every single time it comes up i say that i don’t condone people hating on other people on the basis of their ships or faves or opinions or whatever (EVERY single time it comes up, such as here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here to name a few but m certain there’s more) and the only thing it ever gets me is twenty anons telling me why im a bad person, people unfollowing me and blocking me and not reblogging my gifs lol, people calling me a race traitor on multiple occasions, or else an entire thread on twitter talking about me and calling me ignorant and gross and a race traitor (again) and honestly I’m kind of over it? lol im just………tired of it? im not that kind of person and im never going to be, but it’s pretty fucking galling for you to waltz in here and claim that it’s my fucking responsibility to have to open myself up to vitriol constantly just because im not that kind of person (which i have done, countless times, anyway) - like you’re talking about people being hateful and toxic towards other actual people as if that’s never happened me, an actual person………..

and what do you think im gonna accomplish single-handedly, anyway? just as people making anti posts likely doesn’t deter you whatsoever from shipping whatever you ship, me making posts isn’t going to change what other people do or say or believe to be right. there’s some hateful people on here, and believe it or not, im not always interested in having to fight those people off from left right and centre 100% of the time while people are presuming im defending ships or things that i don’t even LIKE just because i disagree with the hatefulness of it all. like i said, it’s not my responsibility (and yet I’ve done it many times before and I’m likely going to be doing it again, at the detriment of nobody but myself). people are going to hate whoever they want to hate in here, and like what they like, and there’s very few forces in this world strong enough to actually change that lol, not to mention again it’s not my fucking responsibility to “clean up the trash” when all i ever try to do is maintain positivity and respect for others’ opinions. this is a hobby. this is something i do for fun to get out of the fact that my life is garbage. it’s a coping mechanism, it says so in my fucking blog description lol and i know i’ve been outspoken against the popular opinion before when i disagree with it but that doesn’t mean you need to take that for granted and assume that it’s somehow my job to do that all the time, again, at the expense of getting yet more hate and losing followers and at the general detriment of myself and my experience in this fandom. like the point of the post you’re referring to was about matt, and i wasn’t interested in people derailing it by letting me know why their hatred of whatever shippers is justified, because that wasn’t the point and i wanted the point to come across (about matt, who is also a real PERSON) without people giving me the same tired crap ive dealt with time and time again, presuming im defending ships I don’t even like at all, et cetera ad nauseam. because that was about matthew, and the way people treat him, and i would think by now my personal opinions on the hate and disrespect that permeates this fandom would be well known by anyone who follows me, but go fucking figure.