#the thing is that jason isn’t that much of an influence over Tim’s Robin run as i think it’s often written to be

[tbcanary]

thinking about jason and dick. thinking about how when jason was robin, dick was too hurt and angry at bruce to really be there for jason as a mentor and older brother. thinking about how dick is with tim, how he very clearly wants to take him in as a younger brother and show him the ropes, and how he and jason could have gotten there, too, if they had more time to figure it out.

[thr-333]

Drastic Measures- Part 11

@daminette-december2019-2020

~Snow globe~

Gabriel: Nathalie why haven't you canceled my card?! Nathalie: oh were you going to use that to pay my pay rise for moving to a different continent or to pay my last 6 years of overtime? Gabriel: Nathalie- Nathalie: You’re welcome to do it yourself sir. Gabriel:....... I can’t do anything without you can I? Nathalie: No you cant and make sure to remember that next pay day.

Ao3

First < Previous  > Next

------------

“So why are we here?” Damian asks getting dragged around the mall by the two.

“Because if we’re decorating the pet stores we need inspiration,” Marinette holds him by his elbow in case he tries to escape again, “And Adrien's having fun,”

“Why don’t we just hire someone for that?”

“I haven't found a good babysitter yet,” Marinette smiles as she knows Damian glares at her, “The style of the store is the most important thing, it’s what people interact with the most and a representation of our company,”

“Tt,” Marinette smiles knowing she won. 

They follow Adrien into an incredibly overpriced knick-knacks store, exactly what they’re looking for. She jots down notes in her book looking at the glasswork on the figurines or the beautifully painted porcelain.

“I think every store should have the same color coordination for each section,” Marinette suggests writing down a potential palette based on the plates she was looking at, “So people always know where to find something no matter the store,”

“How many people do you think are going to multiple stores?” Damian scoffs.

“We will be, besides its a decorative thing, a bit of paint on the wall or shelf, hm maybe each section should have a range of shades to keep it from being too samey,”

“I take it you’re in charge of this part now?”

“Guess so,” Marinette hums looking over the shelves for more inspiration, Adrien looking over a large glass sculpture that she may have to talk him out of buying, “So did you talk to Adrien?”

“Oh no,” Damian catches her attention, “He talked I was expected to listen,”

“So you make any decisions?” She spots a little china doll on a high shelf.

“I’m not going to run away if that’s what you’re asking,” Damian reaches over her grabbing the doll before she knocks over shelves trying to jump up and reach it.

“But If you were-”

“I’m not,” Damian hands the doll over.

“But if you were,” He gives her a withered glare, “Where would you go?”

“… Somewhere I can paint I suppose,” He says after some consideration.

“That's a start!” Marinette exclaims, almost dropping the doll.

“I can paint anywhere,” Damian catches it before she can.

“Ah,” They go back to pursuing the shelves, Damian taking it upon himself to hold the delicate decorations for some reason.

“... Where would you go?” He asks eventually, Marinette tries to keep the smile to herself as to not scare him off.

“I used to think I’d like to go somewhere with lots of snow,”

“Is that so?” Damian hums consideringly.

“Yeah but then I came here and realized the cold sucks,” Marinette's jaw actually drops as Damian laughs, not a snort or a scoff and actual chuckle! “Hollll- did you just laugh?! Did I just get you to laugh!? Are there cameras around?! Do you think they’ll let me keep the footage?!”

“Calm down,” Damian places a hand on her head to stop her bouncing,  “Besides I think your friend is about to make a ludicrous purchase,”

“Adrien!” Marinette snaps as he tries to pay for a glass sculpture twice his size, “Can it fit on the back of a motorcycle?!”

“.... no,” Adrien hangs his head like a toddler being told off.

“Then put it down!” Marinette chides dragging him away from the sculpture and out of the store. She already had to fit three on them on hers. Damian is lagging behind, Marinette resigns herself to having to drag them both through the mall like children when he finally catches up.

“Here take this,” She startles a snow globe in a clear box being pressed into her hands, “Now you can look at the snow without getting cold,”

“That's so nice,” She bites down on the follow-up question of where the hell is Damian and what did you do with him.

“No, it’s bribery,” Ah there he is, “Don’t tell anyone I laughed,”

“So you admit you laughed,” Marinette smirks, letting Adrien go look at different stores.

“Besides,” Damian sharply changes the topic, “If you want to see the snow so badly just stay inside a cabin or something,”

“Well maybe you can come with me,” Marinette hums looking at the snowflakes fall over a winter forest, two little people by a campfire, “I bet it would be beautiful to paint,”

“Maybe so,” Damian agrees before giving her a side look, “Also you’re a horrible influence,”

“Who me? It’s not like I gave you the idea to run away,” He had come to her with that all on his own.

“No you didn’t,” Damian easily agrees, walking along with Marinette.

“Well if you’re still in the rebellion mood why don’t you join the pink hair squad?”

“I am not dying my hair pink,” Damian rolls his eyes.

“Just a little bit?” Marinette steps in front of him walking backward.

“No,” Damian brushes past her, Marinette lets him go ahead.

“Adrien I just had the best idea,” Marinette turns to her side where Adrien is not. Marinette looks behind her spotting Adrien in the crowd- getting picked up and carried away by a stranger! “ADRIEN!”

Damian hears her shout bolting forward. Grabbing a baton he apparently had the whole time. 

“Damian, watch out! They might have feelings!” Damian actually stops in his tracks, turning back to glare at her.

“...”

“...”

“Hey guys,” Adrien speaks up, “I’m kind of being kidnapped,”

“Right!” Marinette wipes the grin off her face, punching the kidnapper right on the jaw. He drops Adrien who lands on his feet, “Do I need a child leash for you young man?”

“Please don’t my Father had one of those for me,” Adrien brushes himself off as the kidnapped stumbles to the ground.

“Weren’t you never allowed out of the house?” Marinette asks as Damian steps forward to pull the kidnapper's arms behind their back.

“Exactly,”

“Not that this isn't riveting,” Damian says in the most bored tone, turning to the kidnapped, “Who hired you?”

“Garbeil Agreste sent me to fetch his son,”

“Yeah, here we call that kidnapping,” Adrien snarks back, “Great can’t the guy just leave me alone? What's his problem it’s like-”

“Nope!” Damian drops the kidnapper walking away, “Not today! Not again!”

“... well that's just rude,” Adrien huffs as someone calls the police.

“Don’t worry,” Marinette smiles, “As I was trying to tell you I have a plan,”

 ---

 “MARINETTE!”

“Hm wonder what that could be about,” Marinette flips the page, continuing to read peacefully while seated for breakfast with the rest of the Waynes.

“Dupain-Cheng I know you are responsible for this,” Damian leans over her, still in a towel and dripping wet, oh and with pink hair that bits kinda important.

“You did this to him?” Jason laughs, not so subtly taking pictures with glee.

“Relax it’s temporary dye,” Marinette grabs Damain’s shoulder before he can jump over the table and dismember Jason.

“How temporary?” Damian demands, Marinette just turns to a new page with no drips of water on it.

“Just wash it a few more times and it will come right out,” Damian huffs again stalking out of the room, all eyes on her.

“... I can’t believe you survived that,” Tim says with awe, “Actually even Damians not stupid enough to risk that,”

She’ll ask what he means later.

 ---

 “Temporary Dupain-cheng?” Damian glares at her, still very much pink and still very much angry.

“Alright maybe not,” Marinette tries to suppress a giggle, “It looks good tho,”

“Dupain-cheng you will fix this and you will fix this now,” She’s not lying he does look good and she does blush.

“Well, we could go to the hairdresser-”

“No,” Damian snaps, crossing his arms like it's final.

“Do you trust me to dye your hair myself?”

“Absolutely not,” at least not after this.

“Then you’re stuck like that,” Marinette shrugs, Damian groans sinking into the seat behind him.

“This is all your fault Dupain-cheng,”

“Ha, how long are you going to call me that?” Damian leans forward fixing her with a venomous glare.

“Forever,”

 ---

 “Hey Robin- are you wearing a swimming cap under your hood?” Ladybug cuts herself off trying to take off his hood.

“It’s a lightweight head protector,” Robin grabs her wrist, but Ladybug is stronger.

“Yeah no,” Ladybug pushes his hood off, “It’s a swimming cap, what is killer croc up to something?”

“You’re hilarious,” Robin scoffs looking away as if there isn’t a real smile tugging at his mouth.

“Well I can’t let Chat take all the glory,” Ladybug shrugs coming to sit next to him in what has become their usual spot, “So what's the deal? Gasp did you lose a dare?”

“Did you just say gasp?” Robin asks incredulously, “And no it’s not a dare it’s a rather unfortunate prank,”

“Oh please please tell me they did the same to Batman, Please,” Ladybug his holding both his shoulders, Robin completely turned towards her as she looks at him desperately.

“........ yes,”

 ---

 “Marinette,”

“Yes Bruc-” Marinette chokes then tries to choke down her laugh.

“I feel you may have gotten carried away, I would like to remind you-” 

“So sorry to interrupt,” Marinette interrupts, “But that wasn't me,”

“Are you sure?” Bruce is studying her.

“Yeah I only messed with Damian's  bathroom,” Marinette turns completely towards him, “Were you using Damian's bathroom?”

“No,”

“Then it wasn't me,” Marinette shrugs turning away.

“Then who did it?”

“A true mystery,”

 ---

 “So you’re sure you want me to do this,” Marinette asks again, the dye in one hand Damian sitting in front of her.

“Dupain-Cheng I swear-”

“Ah, if I help you, you have to stop calling me that,” She tells him, pulling the black dye away for extra effect.

“I only call you that because of what you did,” Damian glares at her reflection in the mirror, “If you want to get back in my good graces then do this,”

“Alright, you’re sure you don’t want to keep a little pink?”

“Marinette,”

“Alright, alright,” Marinette ruffles his hair while she can get away with it, “I did like your pink hair,”

“It got in the way of...” He trails off.

“Way of what?”

“Nothing,” Marinette drops it, the topic not the dye.

“Well Damian,” She spreads the dye through his hair, “Welcome to your first step of rebellion,”

Little did either realize how true that was.

--------

no tag list :P

[iphoenixrising]

If it's not a problem I would like to see what happens when omega Tim safe words out?

I just so in love with how you wrote him and I know you've a thing with Dr Tim and safe words but I would really appreciate if you'll give me this with omega Tim

Have a great day/night

Babe asked for O!Tim safe wording out. Taking into account how much he’s been able to take so far in my fics, then it’s apparently going to be truly something for him to safe word, right?

….or is this just another excuse to have AAANNNNNGGGGGGSSSSSSSTTTTTT.

(I regret nothing, but, well, you might, babe :D :D)

**

It was just supposed to be Pack support. Just the Bats realizing they had an Omega in their ranks, an Omega who had been more on the outskirts than part of the inner circle, an Omega who had been walking a long road alone. Just the Dick and Jay trying to be good Alphas and take care of him. Just giving in to those crazy instincts.

It was never supposed to hurt. It was never supposed to break him. Not like the first time when he was essentially kicked out of the Pack, when his cape was pulled out from under him, and his place became a question mark instead of a given. (Falling from Wayne Towers because Ra’s is such a douce canoe, he’d been beaten to fuck, blood loss and a real concussion to blame when he wondered if they’d bother putting up a case with his suit, if he even mattered that much to Dick, if he ever really did…)

When he presented, when he didn’t have a hint of a Pack scent, It had taken an embarrassingly long time to feel like he could get anywhere near the city. Long after he’d sent Bruce back home, telling him everything with sparse details, why there wasn’t an R on his shoulder, why he couldn’t be Batman’s sidekick anymore. He’d left all the pain locked in his chest, keeping himself as impartial as possible to deliver the hard facts, ignoring the whimpering, cowering Omega in the depths of him crying out for someone, anyone to want him, need him, keep him.

Working his way back in hadn’t been easy. Keeping his presentation under wraps with scent blockers and suppressants hadn’t been either, but there was no way in hell he was going to let something like the fact he was an Omega be the reason they wanted him back. Fuck, no.

But it happened anyway. Slowly but surely, O called him more often about cases, wanted to know if he had any helpful intel. B dropped by the Tower, more than once, to seek him out, told him how buggy the Batcomputer must be this point, but he wouldn’t really know, Tim, because you always handled that, didn’t you? Dick tentatively showed up in one of his safe houses while he riding an undercover stint, pizza and terrible B sci-fi flicks, looked crushed when Tim closed the door on him by sheer self-preservation instinct.  Jason Todd showed up to fish him out of the middle of the Atlantic when a case of crimefighting gone hilariously awry ended up with a thwarted world-domination plot and his ass landed in the middle of, you know, the ocean and shit. Damian of all people demanded his presence in Gotham for the upcoming anniversary of Batcow’s induction into the family.

(When he’d blurted out, “why would you want me back? Aren’t you the one that wanted me gone in the first place? Well, I mean, got what you asked for, right? How about we pretend this conversation never happened.” 

He had been in no way prepared for the demon himself to come hunt him down with a vengeance. Robin seeking him out no matter where he hopped next on the fight crime, kick ass, and take names train.)

(That kid? Seriously.)

And as much as Dick had apologized after he finally made his way back to Gotham, had said no Omega in his Pack should have been alone, without a Bat safety net (reads as: mother hen), he had seemed genuinely upset Tim had presented outside of Gotham, on his own.

Worse, he hadn’t told anyone. Hadn’t come back.

(Like he thought that was an option at the time.)

It wasn’t until later, after they found out he presented, and were…upset he’d been on his own for so long afterwards, that he’d laughed at Dick’s angry expression, shaking his head.

“Come back? Why? To what? I didn’t have any Pack scent by then, and I sure as fuck wasn’t welcome, so why bother? I did what I had to do. We got Bruce back, didn’t we?”

He hadn’t been prepared for how strongly Dick’s musk flared, how the Alpha went deadly serious, had stepped back and palmed some pellets on instinct when facing something potentially dangerous – like a pissed off, feral Alpha male.

It had taken visible effort for Dick to get a hold of his Alpha instincts, which had absolutely perplexed him at the time because really? They hadn’t been partners, allies, friends for almost two years by then.

“It was…I tried to….Tim –“

He’d just waved off the helpless sputtering because by then, it hadn’t really mattered.

“It all worked out in the end. Don’t think about it all too hard, Dick. I don’t.” Which had been an obvious lie, but had at least appeased the Alpha enough not to viciously scent him or use the dreaded octopus hold until he was cuddled within an inch of his life.

So coming back was…different. Unexpected.

Being the official Pack Omega came with Bats all over his everything. Bats coming out of the woodwork when he was starting to run down, when his Heat was approaching, when he’d been out of the city for too long.

(It was all for nothing in the end. Because they’re only after the Omega now, not the boy that used to wear the R…)

“Heat’s easier with an A, Timmers,” Jay had started that ball rolling. “Ya ever gotta need fer the real thing, betcha I know a few Alphas what might help ya out.”

“I can call some Alphas I trust if that becomes the case.” Had been off-handed in his mind, but it had been something else to see Jason’s expression smooth out, to catch the soft noise of leather when the Red Hood’s hands had clenched into fists.

But against his better judgement, he’d let them into his Heat safehouse. At first just to let them deliver Alfred goodies. Later because they wanted to stay, to spend his Heat together.

It was fine as long as they would just leave afterwards. It was fine as long as it stayed just instincts, just Alphas and an Omega. It was fine because they still treated him like Red Robin on the streets and left him alone when he went blackout on cases outside the city.

It was fine until it suddenly wasn’t.

“Gawd, sweetheart,” Jay moans against the nape of his neck, noses against the base, “ya feel s’ good. My sweet lil’ ‘Mega. My purty ‘Mega, lettin’ me in, givin’ it up ta yer Alpha. Gonna lemme be good ta ya, yeah? That’s right. Perfect fer me, ain’t cha?”

It’s his second day, so he’s with it enough to realize what Jason said.

“Yeah he is,” Dick’s fingers in his hair, nails scratching at his scalp. “He’s such a good Omega for us, isn’t he Jay? He fits so nicely between us. Our cute O–“

“Red.” Tim croaks out from under Jay’s bigger body, the wet sounds of skin slapping fast and furious. He bucks up against Jay with real strength, his eyes already getting ridiculously hot and full.

“Red, dammit! Get the hell off me!”

He yells loud enough to make Jay flinch and jerk up abruptly from where he’d been laying over Tim’s back.

Dick’s hand pauses before untangling from his hair.

And even if the Heat is still burning, his body desperate for the knot that was just seconds ago opening him up for it, Tim pulls off Jason’s Alpha cock wetly, doing it himself while both Alphas seem frozen in their spots, not sure why he would safe word out at all. He seemed to be enjoying them!

Tim’s already clawing and scrambling off the bed, careful not to touch either of them, legs wobbly, messy ass and thighs on display, feeling open and raw and needy, but his chest too tight, his lungs seemingly unable to get enough air.

The bathroom door has a lock. Not that it was much of a deterrent if the Alphas really wanted to get to him, but there’s always the window big enough for him to fit through, too small for Dick or Jay. It would give him enough of a head start anyway.

At one point, he’d pulled a towel off the rack, wrapping it around himself, sitting against the bathroom door to literally block it with his body without being consciously aware of it.

He didn’t move, stayed bare ass on the cold tile floor, concentrated on getting enough air back in his lungs, biting down on his lower lip until his eyes stop spilling over, hot and full, until his chest stops stuttering with half-sobs. Until the Omega in him calms it the utter fuck down.

Soft tapping filters through when the door vibrates against his back.

Dick’s voice filters in while the inside of his head is an utter mess. “… got some pajamas for you, and-and a sandwich. Jay made coffee. Can you let me in, sweetheart?”

“Don’t call me that,” is out of his mouth before he can stop it. “I’m not your fucking Omega. I wasn’t enough to be your partner, your brother, and I’m sure as fuck not going to be your bitch either.”

“What the fuck didja just say ta ‘im?” Jay barks from outside the door.

“It’s just instincts,” he tries to snarl but his voice is hoarse, “that’s all this is. You think I don’t know that?” The laugh is scarily unhinged, “it’s not like anyone chose me, right?”

Because honestly, that hasn’t happened his whole vigilante career.

There’s silence outside the door. Stillness. The Omega writhes inside him, still needs a knot, still wants the Alphas even though Tim knows better than to think they want anything other than a warm hole, another vigilante to share the burden, an Omega’s influence in the Pack.

(He fucking gets it.)

“Apparently, we should talk.” Dick’s voice is flat, something like anger or disappointment.

“Get out,” is what Tim says instead. “Get dressed and get the fuck out. I’ll take care of myself.”

Like I’ve always done. Even back when I wore the tunic.

“Tim, we shouldn’t–“

“No,” and his own scent had changed from candy sweet to alarmingly bitter to his own nose. “You are going to get your clothes on and leave. You two don’t see me through anymore Heats. I find someone else or take care of it myself.”

“What?!” Jay sounds floored, “what the shit is this alla sudden? Ya can’t be serious right now.”

“I’m not fucking around, Jason. You leave, or I will.”

“You can’t go out smelling like Heat!”

“I dunno what the hell’s goin’ on wit’ ya but–“

He stands up on wobbly legs, moves to push the window open, knows they’ll hear the squealing because he’s not trying to be quiet about it.

“Whoa, whoa! All right, all right, fer fuck’s sake!”

“We’re getting dressed and leaving,” Dick is right up against the door. “Don’t go out the window, Tim. We’re…we’re going to go, okay?”

“Then go. Now.” He says from the window without turning around. He can’t chance his inner Omega will push him to whine at the door, to smell like open for business, take me, love me, make me yours because that is not at all where any of them are right now.

He hears them talking, their voices getting more muted as they go back to the bedroom to apparently do as he asked.

Tim climbs out of the tub, window still up, and turns on the shower without getting in, just using the noise as a deterrent.

“Don’t like it, Dickie,” he vaguely catches as the Alphas pass by the door again. “We try ta take care a’ ‘im and that’s what the fuck he says?”

“He safe worded, Jay. What does that mean to you?”

And Tim’s throat gets tight when he thinks about the implications Dick is suggesting.

“Dunno. How ‘bout ya gimme yer theories, Detective.”

“Later. I want to make sure there’s water and Alfred meals left in the feezer.”

“Fine, them let ‘im take care of his own ass. I ain’t never took advantage of a ‘Mega in my fucking life.”

Tim doesn’t leave the bathroom until he hears the front door slam closed. He darts out long enough to reconfigure the security system, makes sure no Bats are getting in without a hell of a shock.

The rest of his Heat is utterly fucking miserable, natch.

He feels wrung out and hurt by the time it’s done and he’s ready to put on the suit again.

He doesn’t put in the Batcomm, for the first time in months, and it goes back in a drawer before he takes off out the window.

[bigskydreaming]

I'm so used to Dick getting hit because his family or friend was annoyed and decided he was the closest wall to punch that I never expect anything different anywhere, and then Young Justice s3 and Titans s2 caught me by the neck and threw me into a pool of unexpected catharsis. I never expected Dick to defend himself, I never expected the catharsis, I never expected how much it'd affect me. Although now that Titans s3 is upon us with a Dick vs Jason fight I'm back to the default.

I really, really, REALLY wish more people had even the slightest idea of the catharsis that can come from one character just fucking INTERVENING in a situation like we see happen so often in fics and the comics and just be like....no. That is not fucking okay. And like, without that, it literally is just...permissive? Like when Jason punches Dick in Grayson #12 after the Spyral thing, and Tim just stands there.....Tim's essentially saying its okay, he sees nothing wrong with what just happened. Which....dun dun dun....not all that surprisingly then turned into Tim punching Dick in Batman and Robin Eternal.....again with nobody upset.

Its why I've never even been able to like, go with the idea that Alfred or any of the Titans knew about what happened between Bruce and Dick in NTT #55, specifically, because like....I can't make peace with nobody saying anything about that ever. Bruce is a Big Time Superhero. Who frequently rubs people the wrong way. I don't buy that nobody's ever gonna throw that back in his face to make a point about how he's got no business being holier than thou about various topics. *Shrugs*

But yeah, unfortunately its not just canon. Like, I've read a fic where the prompt was literally like....people being glad to see Dick back from Spyral and getting actual catharsis for everything he went through instead of what we got in canon....so I went into the fic like okay, cool, this is exactly what I'm looking for. LOL nah, we got Jason STILL punching Dick anyway, even AFTER finding out about the events of NW #30 and Dick actually having died, and like, Jason was still so pissed at Dick for not TELLING them this that NOW, THAT'S why he just has to punch Dick before THEN hugging him and saying okay I just had to get that out, but now I'm over it and glad you're back.

And I was just like.....ummm. The author and people in the comments are treating this like an lol moment where all's well that end's well, and I'm like ARE YOU KIDDING ME, THAT'S THE EXACT SAME ISSUE CANON PRESENTED. Only now its WORSE, because people act like that addressed and resolved it, but with it STILL including Jason punching Dick cuz he was mad, and now with this even MORE formally being treated as like....something fine and necessary to repair their relationship. And all of this is packaged as like...the specific catharsis that people who were UPSET with how that all played out in canon like, came into this specific fic looking for....and this is what we got instead, with zero warning.

That's not even getting started on like, the super long super serious fic set during the Ric Grayson era that was supposedly about addressing Bruce's abusive actions towards ALL his kids, which FEATURED Ric as a regular character, but only ever actually DELVED into the times he'd hit Jason and then Tim. With Tim as an unreliable narrator making some reference to Bruce having hit Dick a couple times but that was different because Dick was an adult....and the author and narration at NO POINT pushing back against this to be like well actually Timmy, that's not fucking different at all, Dick is still his kid, Bruce was still taking out his anger on him, that was still abuse, and saying or even just implicitly framing it as NOT abuse the way it played out in Tim's head, when you're presenting this entire fic as a whole as like, an ode to actually acknowledging the abusive aspects of how Bruce has been written with his kids....

Again, SUPER upsetting to read and witness, because people are absolutely going to read that and internalize that as reinforcing their belief that the situations with Bruce and Dick WERE substantially different and thus not qualifying as abuse and belonging in a separate category the way Tim slotted it in his brain.....because why wouldn't they?

The author only wrote it that way because they perceived it that way, clearly, otherwise by their own stated admission of trying to tackle this subject honestly and completely, like....they would have actually made some kind of point or acknowledgment of it not being different at all and still very much abuse....and the fact that they didn't suggests they very much did see it as somehow different.....so why would readers perceive it any differently and why wouldn't its inclusion in a fic that delved into abuse so extensively NOT at least on SOME level potentially reinforce whatever leanings or perceptions they had in the same direction already? And meanwhile, this story like sooooo many others that wants to talk about abuse SERIOUSLY, all the while calls this their hobby that they do for enjoyment, so please don't criticize anything because that would ruin the HOBBY of it all for them, and its like....

And then there's the fic where its Dick hitting Jason while in the midst of a narrative that's bringing all of Jason's abuse issues and related triggers front and center, and this one is highly recommended as like, a great Dick Grayson characterization by an author who hates any and all canon renditions of Bruce being abusive and so doesn't include anything like that, and so you're going into it like okay, I'm not expecting any catharsis or anything along the lines of acknowledging Bruce's worse moments with Dick or Jason because clearly that's not what this fic is about and that's fine...but by the exact same token, I ALSO was not expecting that an author who is so vehement about how abusive Bruce is wildly OOC writing because the real Bruce would never do that and that's not how they perceive the characters, like....what I'm NOT expecting is for Dick, in a fic PRAISED for a good and complex depiction of him, to like....just fucking pop Jason one in the face and bring to mind how this makes him no different from Jason's abuser and then he runs and seeks comfort in Bruce who whether people like it or not, is canonically someone who has made Dick an abuse survivor himself....

And I'm just sitting there fucking BLIND-SIDED thinking wow, not only did I NOT want this recommended to me by the whole freaking fandom as a wonderfully nuanced portrayal of Dick Grayson, I would have kept a ten mile radius from it if it had say, a tag warning of sibling abuse, which is what they wrote between Dick and Jason, just the other way around. And its like.....I completely understand the author's dislike of abusive Bruce in canon and their desire not to engage with that content on any level, and would have been totally fine with that.....except, I naively figured there was no reason that same logic wouldn't extend to Dick, especially in so lauded a fic, because like, what? Bruce would never ever hit his family and its wildly OOC and simply not believable, even though its happened like five different times with Dick alone, but Dick hitting HIS family is a wonderfully nuanced and complicated portrayal of him? In what universe is that not gonna be a problem for some people??

But because we live in a fandom that's like, umm, this is just peoples' HOBBY, they're doing it for FUN, we're expected to be silent about stuff like this which are very real fucking problems to watch go unacknowledged in fics that claim to be TRYING to treat these topics seriously, but in reality only want to be entertainment just deep enough to move people but NOT deep enough to warrant criticism for having an undue influence on peoples' emotions or perceptions of various dynamics.....and we're supposed to be polite and just smile and say this isn't for us and let it all go, even though like, we would have KNOWN it wasn't for us and not gone anywhere near it in the first place if like, it had been tagged as sibling abuse or something like that. That would have been a clear advertisement to me that like, this is not something you want any part of.

Like, I go to fics that do acknowledge or reference Bruce's abuse to his kids because I'm LOOKING for the catharsis of having abuse actually called out as abuse....and what about that makes anyone think I or someone like me is in doing so LOOKING for characters who AREN'T already abusive to each other in canon NOW being abusive in ways that only the individual fic writer chose to depict them as? And by the same token, its not like I want to go into any fic and see more of the same thing as we get in canon, which is.....more instances of actual abuse being framed and treated as something that's just fine, actually, and nothing to worry about or take too seriously....

But meanwhile, back at the fandom farm, everyone's still totally convinced that they're so superior to canon and doing things so much better than them and fixing all their mistakes....and its like....well then why are you MAKING the EXACT same mistakes, and what the hell are we supposed to do about it with YOU guys if unlike with canon (where we can criticize but it doesn't do much good because there's no guarantee of the people who need to see it actually seeing it), we're not supposed to bring it to your attention as 'criticism-worthy' (thus making the opposite problem of where we CAN bring it to the attention of people who can see it, but we're not 'supposed to' because fandom etiquette)?

And back to the whole thing about using a sibling abuse tag as a warning for people to steer clear if this isn't something they want in their dynamics between the Batbrothers, not just Bruce and his kids....

The thing that fucking gets me every time here, is like......THIS WOULD BE SUCH AN EASY PROBLEM TO FIX, IF PEOPLE WEREN'T JUST SO FREAKING EMBARRASSED TO ADMIT THEY ACCIDENTALLY WROTE IT WITHOUT NOTICING WHAT IT WAS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Like that first example I used....I very naively DID try to bring it to the author's attention when I was new to dipping my toes back into this fandom, and boy oh boy did that just exemplify how counter-productive that is as long as people can hide behind the DONT CRITICIZE MY WORK shield. I sent a private message on Ao3 so it wouldn't even show up in their comments, and just said very simply:

"hey, I really enjoy your stuff but I was wondering if you would mind putting a warning tag of 'sibling abuse' on your latest fic? I'm not trying to tell you how to write the characters and I figure you probably didn't intend it to come across that way anyway, but as an abuse survivor, I can't help but see that dynamic pop out as such for me in a way that I would at least have liked a heads up about, if that makes sense? Its just I do see how you paralleled how the canon presented this scenario and thus get what you were trying to do there I think, but I kinda only came into this fic for the specific lure of the catharsis we DIDN'T get when things played out somewhat similar in canon, with a lot of it having to do with that dynamic between Dick and Jason, and so...yeah. This part of the comics is obviously emotionally charged for a lot of us and I just know personally, this wasn't quite the catharsis I was after for that scenario and just a quick tag like that would have helped warn me of that. Anyway, sorry for this and hope you can understand my position, I'm not trying to be heavy-handed here or anything, but this was a problem for me and just in case it might be a problem for anyone else in the future, I thought I'd try and send a quick message about that for you to do whatever you want with."

I mean, I thought I was pretty reasonable there, personally?

Yeah.

The author did not.

She went off on me for constructive criticism which she did not ask for, and did not appreciate my insinuations into her character about her being an abuse apologist, because that's clearly what I was saying there. But I mean, that's what happens here. I'd bet anything that she was just embarrassed to have written the dynamic in such a way and then been called out about something she was previously oblivious to and then felt self-conscious about having overlooked or perpetrated herself.

But like....as understandable as that is, like....that's not my problem? And that's not a reason to shut down ANY avenue for people to raise the issue when writers unknowingly perpetrate stuff like this, in ANY way, no matter HOW delicately.

I get being defensive about someone thinking you INTENDED to write a pair of brothers as abusive and saying that was fine, and I even get how, being in a defensive mindset, she could have jumped to that interpretation of what I was saying rather than what I was ACTUALLY saying which was just....look, I don't know you, I don't know your own story, but for whatever reason you didn't pick up on this potentially troubling element of what you wrote in ways that I did because of my own experiences, and I'm just trying to point the issue out as delicately as possible because I KNOW that chances are, you WOULDN'T have written things that way if you had at all perceived the dynamic as I did. And I also KNOW that for people who don't have necessarily the same experiences or perspective I do, that they're not going to be as naturally inclined to perceive trouble spots the way I'm kinda....primed to notice them, and its NATURAL for some of this to pass by peoples' notice for a variety of reasons and like....I'm not freaking mad about that?? That's FINE. That's NORMAL. You're not a bad person for writing something a 'problematic' way purely because you LITERALLY DIDN'T SEE THE PROBLEM WHEN YOU WROTE IT.

Nobody has universal experiences. Nobody has all experiences. The problem is almost NEVER somebody just WRITING something in a way that they 'should have' known better than to, especially when it comes to topics like abuse or whatever.

No, the problem is ONLY when they get all up in their butthurt feelings about being embarrassed that they DIDN'T omnisciently know that and they feel self conscious now about how they think it makes them look now that the issue HAS been raised in a way they can recognize, and so they just fucking double down on pretending there's no issue whatsoever and whomever brings it to their attention is just overstepping and who even asked, anyway.

And thus a problem that can easily be solved in TWO ways....1) by adding a simple tag acknowledging the problem area for what it is, or 2) by editing the problem area to erase or write around the issue it raises that the author didn't perceive initially and likely would have avoided from the start if they HAD, because they AREN'T someone who wants to stand KNOWINGLY by that implication and what it says or suggests.....

Instead, this problem just gets turned into a generic fandom discourse issue about critique etiquette that addresses absolutely nothing, changes nothing, makes nothing about any of this better for ANYONE, just extends the problem to one likely to be repeated over and over again because it WILL never change so long as it remains something that isn't SUPPOSED to have attention brought to it, and all of this.

All of this.

Is just self-conscious defensiveness because people didn't want to be perceived as someone who either actually thought the things they'd unknowingly implied for WHATEVER reason, or didn't care/pay enough attention to notice as a problem in the first place....

Or else they just literally DON'T care enough about the content of what they're writing enough that they actually GIVE a shit about becoming better informed on it and thus better able to steer away from troubling implications or points of view in the future. Even if pointed out by survivors or people with personal experience as such that they recognize a problem even where the author didn't themselvse, no matter WHAT their own personal relationship with the subject matter is -

(because yeah, survivors of rape and abuse can absolutely perpetuate harmful viewpoints ourselves as well, because experiencing these things doesn't take away from our being exposed to just as much of the abuse/rape culture and apologia society and media churns out regularly enough that it can cloud ANYONE'S mind on this subject, without the addition or input of other points of view).

And either way, no matter what the reason is, when people aren't willing to even ENTERTAIN input, feedback, or potentially negative or even just AWARENESS-RAISING viewpoints in response to culturally influencing fictional content they put out via a variety of fairly wide-reaching platforms that can thus reach and influence any number of mindsets, from those of survivors to potential survivors to friends or families of survivors to people with no connection to abuse or rape whatsoever currently but for whom that could change at any time because we all meet new people every day and survivors could come into your life and be affected by your views and knowledge of abuse and rape culture and apologism at any point, even if you never become a survivor yourself -

(as is my ardent wish for anyone no matter HOW much I dislike or disagree with them personally. I don't expect or WANT people to be as fully informed on a lot of this stuff as I am personally, just like I'm not like, sad about not being MORE informed on the aspects or experiences stemming from it all that aren't personally relevant to my own life, because I'm additionally very aware that my own viewpoint is not definitive and not the monolithic voice for all survivors everywhere, I've literally only ever advocated for my own perspective on these matters and anyone of a like-mind which is an entirely opt-in POV that people have to decide for THEMSELVES if they feel that applies to them versus something that I'm CLAIMING on behalf of anyone but myself) -

Anyway. Bottom line is whatever the reason for WHY people are so avoidant on this topic, the end result is we've created a culture that says people are allowed to craft fictional viewpoints on any topic in any way to any degree...but the only impact that can ever be acknowledged is positive. Nobody can point out where things can be better. Nobody can point out where things are just fucking WRONG. The entertainment of whomever wrote the thing and whomever reads it and ISN'T bothered by it in any way, is eminently more important and worth protecting than the comfort of anyone who reads the thing and is not only troubled by the viewpoint made or claims presented on a matter they're intimately acquainted with in some form or to some degree themselves.....but then merely wants their viewpoint and concerns acknowledged and made part of the conversation so that both writer and readers can potentially apply that viewpoint and ANY additional perspective or information it contains to future works.

In essence, for all the free speech and censorship talk that gets thrown around fandom spaces....THIS kinda thing RIGHT HERE?

Is the most self-evident example I can come up with of ACTUALLY shutting down conversation and the spread and dissemination of information relevant to the topics being raised as points of interest every. single. day. in this fandom and most every other one I can think of.

So if peoples' ACTUAL goal was creating spaces where the people for whom fictional content is actually MOST relevant to are encouraged and outright TOLD to try and separate their feelings from that relevancy and treat it all as an abstract.....

Just so that people for whom this content already IS an abstract and nothing more, can refrain from having it made real and thus reality-impacting, and in doing so take away some of the escapism and FUN of it all, and make it a little more 'heavy' than they wanted when they turned to it for a bit of self-indulgent angst they never intended or expected to treat (or see treated) as anything more than that?

Then its like, congrats. You did it guys. That's what you've got here. That's what you've made.

Yay.

Go team.

[thelittleredheadedmusician]

I was originally going to say Les Miz but in Gotham but felt that might not be workable so switched to Batfam in Les Miz.

But more ElseWorlds style where the story takes place in the time setting and the characters are contemporaries of the era but still become versions of themselves. Well I guess French versions of themselves. Know what I mean?

OHMYGOD. OH MY GOD OH MY GOD. LES MIS IN GOTHAM WOULD BE THE HOTTEST OF MESSES BUT DEAR GOD I CANNOT GET THE IDEA OF VIGLANTE AMIS OUT OF MY HEAD. 

OK. HEAR ME OUT-

ENJOLRAS IN A CAPE. 

But seriously, the ABC as a vigilante team in Gotham? They break up into smaller groups to cover as much ground as possible and I feel like accident prone Bossuet becomes the man in the chair with Joly the base medic. But like the rest running around living their best bat/bird lives? Yes. I have thoughts on this. Many thoughts. I’m gonna circle back to this at a later date. 

But you asked for Thoughts on Bats in Les Mis, so that you will get! 

I definitely think that they’d all remain vigilantes, what with how corrupt and broken the French justice system is at this point and just the bats as people with strong internal senses of right and wrong. I feel like Bruce would still be wealthy, still trying to use his position and influence to make positive change for the people of his city -- here Paris, rather than Gotham -- and still find it lacking. Donating to all the churches and hospitals and charities. Giving loose change to anyone he passes. Picking up stray orphans from the streets. Just being Bruce Wayne but in Paris in the 1830s. He’s the Valjean if we’re making 1:1 comparisons.

Dick has a history of going off to school and quitting to try and make a more active change with his group of friends (and I love him and ntt for it) so he’s def joined a revolutionary group like Les Amis de l’ABC. Very much the Enjolras in this situation. 

Jason is definitely a former gamine and Dick in this AU probs is too lbr. Rather than dying we’ll say he got into a fight with Bruce who wasn’t doing enough in his eyes to help people and thought Dick and his friends were too idealistic, hoping for a revolution when there was just as much work to be done now rather than the vague future. Which isn’t to say that Dick and co aren’t doing things to help people or trying to improve the conditions they see, it’s just not their main goal. The revolution is a longterm solution, Jason is pressing for a more immediate action. So he leaves the family, taking whatever he can with him, and starts using it to make a little neighborhood for himself that he watches over and people know they can go to for help. He’s the Red Hood of Paris essentially and may or may not be running a crime ring on the side to help fund his operation once the Wayne assets dry up. But in a Robin Hood way (if you’ll excuse the pun). He undoubtedly has his own little army of gamines though. Started out as Gavroche, is now Montparnasse but SIGNIFICANTLY less slimy. Little bit of Eponine too. 

Tim is undoubtedly the Marius in this situation. He’s come from a fairly wealthy family and it’s colored his understanding of the world. He doesn’t agree with what he’s been taught but he’s still really learning there’s anything different. He’s got his politics down enough to know that a republic should be the aim and that there’s no way anyone can say the monarchy is working and still have a clear conscious. He probs meets Dick at some party Bruce strongarms his eldest into and immediately falls into Dick’s revolutionary group. He also learns about the clinic Jason’s running out of his pub with Dr. Thompkins who is brilliant but a woman and thus no one will hire her. Tim starts bringing supplies and there he meets Stephanie! Gaining one friend, a brick to the face for being a bit of a pompous and privileged asshat, and an expanded worldview in the process. 

Steph is very much a cross between Eponine and Gavroche. She’s a Thenardier. She’s even got the asshole father. But here she’s one of Jason’s messengers, assistants, and if needed protection. She’s got an ax and lifetime of other people’s bullshit, she will whoop your ass. She also teaches the younger kids to read and write. Tim takes her to a couple of meetings with him and she likes Dick and co but would much rather stick with Jason and his immediate action. Though she’ll bring her ax the day the revolution actually comes, don’t doubt that. 

And I’ve run out of steam and sat on this long enough. It’s going up for Barricade Day cause I’ve got nothing better lol. 

[akimmito]

Rivals (?)

Everyone at the school knows that there are two students competing in all existing academic and non-academic activities, going so far to take over the different clubs and subject them to their dominance. Everyone knows they shouldn't get in her way, everyone except the new student.

Theodor Edevane is a very skilled boy in most subjects, in just a month he dethroned them. Sure, there was no malice, but unlike popular belief at school, neither of them gave it any real importance.

Timothy Drake was too busy developing a technology project to be approved by Wayne Enterprise as well as Marinette Dupain-Cheng doing the same, but with a biochemistry project. Wayne Tech and Wayne BioTech are ecstatic with their respective geniuses, also very surprised at their motivation

Yes, both took their competition to much more demanding fields, where they not only compete with each other but with other departments within the company. Bruce doesn't know how, in hell, it happened. The two young are ONLY in internships and are now leading a project to apply for funding.

While they still compete at ridiculous levels in school, surpassing personal goals that border on the improbable and putting together projects for Wayne. What nobody knows is that they are actually very good friends, so good friends that they don't even realize that they have crossed the line of simple friendship.

"Tim." Marinette murmurs against her friend's chest, just awakened from her nap. "Wait..." He continues to write an essay on the impact poverty has on children in Gotham, he spent hours talking to Jason and visiting places like Red Robin to see firsthand how children live, this, of course, also It has led the essay to transcend its class utility and present it to the Martha Wayne Foundation as a promoter of a project that it is already scheming.

"Tim." She writhes in his arms, managing to escape his grasp. "You're a workaholic. It's my turn to use the computer and your turn to nap. ”He sighs and saves his files to give her the free pass.

They settle again and he remains in her arms to take a nap. It's a way they have been working lately, they have been running with little sleep to finish the tasks and move forward with the projects. Recommendable? No, but they spend time together and that is as good as the satisfaction of competing with each other. And they are totally oblivious to those hugs, the times they have been close to kissing and the times yes it has happened. Perhaps lack of sleep influenced.

But no one realizes that fact, at least not until the day Tim gets funding for the project of Wayne Tech  for a medical device that uses nanotechnology and artificial intelligence.

"I told you I would win." Tim brags that he won, the three weeks he spent sleeping two hours a day were worth it. His smug smile as he leans back in his chair is an indicator of how proud he is of his accomplishment, although the project Marinette devised was equally incredible and he's sure she would have won, if it were not for his being his competition; the other departments never had a chance.

Marinette walks towards him, most of them don't take their interactions very much into account, the last month they saw them compete and annoy each other whenever they crossed paths in the hallways or the cafeteria. But their attention quickly falls on them when one watches as the girl falls into the chair on her legs and leans on him, pouting. Tim's smug smile disappears and is softer and more loving as he embraces her instead.

Normally very interesting things don't happen in the offices, so the last month was refreshing witness the competition between the two interns. Office dramas aren't very interesting either, which Smith cheated on his wife? It's the fifth time in the month, they still don't understand how she tolerates it. Callen got caught in the elevator? Once a month happens to him, poor thing. Ramirez spilled his coffee on Benson? There is always a poor victim of his clumsiness, last Monday it was Jensen.

It was actually more interesting to see the two eighteen-year-olds about to graduate actually be dating and not the enemies they thought they were. It was impressive to see how comfortable they are with each other.

Too bad they can't gossip about it because Tim Drake is the next CEO and they're not willing to risk their position at the company by starting a rumor about something they clearly want to keep secret and that they felt comfortable enough around them not to have trouble showing it in front of them.

They are not going to betray his trust, not when she's sweet like honey and he can be quite intimidating when he sets his mind to it.

Bruce Wayne is another story, seeing them the only thing he could think of is how he missed that one of his children was in a relationship. He noticed when Dick started dating Barbara years ago, he also noticed when Jason started dating Roy months ago (even if his second child isn't around as much home anymore). How could he not have noticed? Are they such good actors that even having them under the same roof he couldn't see? Alfred should know, and it's his first mission upon returning to the mansion.

------

I don't know what this is, but here it's. I hope you like it...

[nightwingmyboi]

Dick Grayson and Temper

For whatever reason, Dick’s temper has become one of the main traits that people focus on when looking at Dick’s character. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, since he does have quite the temper, but since it has become one of those essential aspects of his personality for a lot of people, I just wanted to clarify a few things I think get misconstrued? 

Certain people take Dick having a temper and equate it with him having anger issues or thin skin. It’s bled into art, text posts, fics...where Dick is described/shown essentially as a petty asshole, someone who has a tendency to overreact and lash out at family and friends, someone who is whiny and always complaining (@bigskydreaming​ goes a little more into this perception here). I don’t think this is a fair interpretation of Dick’s character at all. There are two main things I feel like people need to keep in mind when thinking about Dick’s temper. 

1.) Dick’s infamous temper is, 9 times out of 10, directed at criminals. 

Nightwing (1996) #65

When Dick mentions struggling with his temper, he is almost always talking about the anger he feels towards criminals, not loved ones. When he sees people hurt or in danger, especially those closest to him, he gets pissed and can go too far. He often gets angry in defense of his family and those he protects. 

Titans Vol. 2 #29

Batman and Robin #12

In fact, one of the biggest examples of his temper is him beating the Joker to death, as a result of the Joker killing Jason and Tim. Like many heroes, Dick struggles with not crossing the line when faced with crime; this doesn’t mean that he is the same way with those he loves. 

2.) In most circumstances, Dick has demonstrated excellent control of his anger. So, Dick may have a bad temper...but it usually doesn’t make an appearance unless he is under an immense amount of pressure (and sometimes not even then). 

Injustice Gods Among Us #16

Dick’s not a doormat and he can be confrontational if that’s what is needed to get the job done, but he is also known for keeping a cool head under immense pressure and stress. He’s known in the superhero community for resolving conflict and has often been called “the glue” that keeps various teams together. That wouldn’t mesh with the idea that he is constantly losing his temper. In fact, his middle name might as well be de-escalation, because that’s pretty consistently what he does. Look at how he acts in various arguments: 

Example #1: While Nightwing is off-world with the Titans, Jason dies. Likely struggling with grief, Bruce doesn’t attempt to contact Dick while he is off world or when he returns. Dick is left to find out through a teammate, Danny Chase. Despite being left in the dark, Dick still goes to the cave to try to support Bruce. He puts his feelings to the side, and doesn’t even bring up the fact that he was hurt by Bruce’s exclusion. Unfortunately, the conversation derails regardless, and Bruce ends up hitting Dick and telling him that it was a mistake to invite Dick into his life. 

The New Teen Titans #55

Look at how Dick reacts. Even when Batman hits him and yells extremely harsh things at him, he doesn’t lash out in turn or yell back. He keeps calm and continues to talk to Batman; he likely understands that this is a product of Bruce’s grief and as a result allows his feelings/hurts to go unaddressed. 

Example #2 (inspired by @hood-ex​ post here): Garth loses his temper when he learns that the Titans won’t help him with a problem he’s having. When Robin tries to stop the fight, Garth punches him. 

Teen Titans (1966) #28

After he takes the hit, Dick continues to try to keep people from fighting, and in the end, Dick once again puts his bruised feelings to the side and doesn’t say a word of complaint to keep team unity. He still goes and helps Garth with his problem. 

Example #3: After Donna’s death, Dick was devastated. He spiraled into depression. In the aftermath, he was stricter and quicker to anger than he would normally be. Even his leadership of the Outsiders was effected, and as a result, Anissa, Black Lightning’s daughter, was seriously hurt. Black Lightning is not pleased; he slams Nightwing against a wall and yells at him. 

Outsiders (2003) #16

Even when Dick is emotionally compromised and short tempered, he still isn’t looking for a fight. He doesn’t retaliate when Black Lightning slams him against the wall, and he doesn’t interrupt when Pierce tears into him (for a whole page of the comic). It’s not like Pierce goes easy with his criticism; yet, Dick remains stoic and takes it. He doesn’t say a word of complaint or defense, and he doesn’t lash out. He keeps his temper under control. (Just an fyi for those wondering, but this is definitely one of those times Dick deserved a harsh talking to, lmao, support you Black Lightning!!)

Example #4: The Batfam is fighting a villain known as Mother, who is known for brainwashing people. Anyone could be in her control, so when Tim is acting suspiciously, Dick decides to investigate to ensure that Tim is not a double agent. Dick finds out that Tim secretly kept his family in a hidden location to protect them, and unintentionally brings trouble to their door. On the flip side, Tim gets angry at Dick for sneaking around behind his back and putting his family in danger. Though Dick tries to explain his actions, Tim won’t hear it and instead throws a punch. 

Batman and Robin Eternal #5

Even when Tim punches him out of the blue, ironically because he can’t control his temper, Dick just takes the hit and lets him walk away. He doesn’t ever push Tim for an apology, and Tim never gives one. The rest of the series, people give Dick crap for betraying Tim’s trust, and despite Dick’s reasonable concerns being the impetus for his actions, Dick accepts the other’s criticism without complaint. 

Examples #5-57: Just think of all the times that Damian insulted Dick and told him he couldn’t cut it and generally was acting like a little shit, when Dick was struggling with Batman’s death and with taking on the cowl and with running Bruce’s life, and Dick still never gave up on Damian and gave him Robin. Very patient, very thick skin. 

And I could add even more moments! I don’t mean to go overboard, but the idea is that, over pretty much his entire history, from Robin to Nightwing to Batman and back, there are more times that Dick puts his feelings to the side and lets people yell at him (and basically physically assault him RIP) for the greater good, then times he flies off the handle and loses his temper, especially when compared to other characters in the Batfam. Seeing people say that Dick is secretly an angry asshole when pushed a little or is always blowing things out of proportion and being whiny is just annoying, especially when Dick canonically has worked very hard to keep his cool and mediate in various tense situations, even when he has reason to get offended and retaliate. 

And this isn’t me saying that Dick can’t lash out, cause duh he’s a human being and he’s not perfect. He does have a temper and sometimes can say harsh things to those he loves. But, he doesn’t usually lose his cool, and when he does it is usually a surprise. The rarity of Nightwing giving into his temper is part of the reason it is so impactful when he does fly off the handle. 

A lot of the panels you see floating around about Dick’s temper are 1) from times he was brainwashed or mentally influenced (Dick yelling at Donna, Alfred, and Joey are all from a single time when he was brainwashed by Brotherblood for example), 2) from times he was in great emotional/mental distress from the deaths of those close to him, or 3) examples of times that Dick is standing up for himself, that I don’t really see as him having a temper? And a lot of those fights/arguments that are shown are not as one sided as tumblr makes them seem, lmao. Either way, most of these times aren’t really representative of his normal behavior or attitude.

In conclusion, Dick isn’t some petty jerk with anger management issues; he’s a human being, who sometimes gets angry and upset like every other human being in the world. He has a temper, but I don’t feel like it should define him in the way and to the extent that it currently does. 

P.S. This isn’t me trying to excuse the times that Dick has been nasty and let his temper run away from him, obviously. Like I said, he’s human and he’s made mistakes. But he doesn’t lash out normally or often. I’m just trying to put things in perspective. 

[thattimdrakeguy]

Weirdly enough Red Robin is the series I’d be most scared to review, because for obvious reasons I imagine more than any other character it’s the Tim fan base (I won’t say fandom, because I feel like that gives a different connotation nowadays. and it’s a bunch of chill, un-interactive but very passionate, chaps) that follow me.

And I’d just get sooo many people giving me nit-picks, and telling me stuff I already know.

Cause I can say anything against Teen Titans 2003, New 52, Rebirth, and Wonder Comics stuff cause that’s the generally agreed upon stuff that you can complain against for Tim. Cause like, to not play dumb to it, this whole Bat-Family fandom acts like there’s freaking laws to abide by if you don’t want a bunch of batty (not a pun, not even saying not a pun in sarcasm lol) fans and stans down your neck. Normally involving certain characterizations or comics that, honestly, aren’t even usually the more accurate ones, but the contradicting ones that don’t make a lick of sense, and that’s not even talking about the straight up fanon ones.

Not to say I wouldn’t get why it’s the Red Robin series that’d get people to give me crap out of all the Tim stuff, because I do. It’s a lot of peoples entry to Tim, and it’s pretty heavy implications of suicidal ideation, and more so obvious mental breakdown journey across continents means a lot to people. I can get why, and if it wasn’t those characters in it, I’d think it was great too.

Also I know for a fact people would act like I’m just bias for 90s Tim, and point out Timmy’s in a teddy bear hoodie in my header. Cause it’s the most weakest defense someone could possibly make cause they’re lacking an actual point. Like they know everything a fucking ‘bout me, when they don’t, I’m just allowed to think my own stuff, and I’m allowed my dang comfort art, so blah blah blah. I’ve proved myself enough. I don’t need some random dismissive guys random approval or not, but man can it be annoying when someone thinks they’re smart about it.

Like basically put, it would be very exhausting to go through the many different series and years of comic book content to explain why I think the way I do, when all the other person has to say is “I like this series a lot, and it means a lot to me, it’s story about depression, and plus it’s Tim being at the button of his sanity so-- And I think this person is stuck on 90s Tim” cause like I freaking get it, and acting like cause I prefer a different Tim comic means my opinion isn’t valid, is the most childish thing ya can really do. Like I love 90s Tim the most for a reason, and I started reading Tim as Red Robin first, ya ninny.

But to just be honest, it is an incredibly flawed series that has overall, in the long game, soiled the character of Tim Drake, and directly influenced the New 52 and beyond depiction of him. Not to give Lobdell an excuse, I just find it really odd that people getting praising it as the peak of Tim content when it’s even caused some really freaking toxic fandom beliefs.

When some of the most important scenes in the series are so botched that it has genuinely made people despise other characters when I don’t even think they were portrayed well for that to make sense. The messy inconsistent writing as it went between two different writers causing some absolutely terrible characterization for Tim that isn’t even always consistent within the series itself because FabNic is just awful, and how forgettable most stuff after the first story is.

That first story I can understand the love for it. But people treating the whole series as a whole like it’s a great journey of long-term story development just feels like a real bad describer for it. Because to me by the end of it’s run it caused Tim to be put in the terrible spot that he’s only now escaping from little under a decade later. As well as only really starting cause people in the company didn’t like Tim and the characters around them as much as you’d hope.

In total, I honestly feel like if it wasn’t released during a time were the common tastes were very edgy and emo-esque, as well as around the time the online fandom spaces were only really then being formed in a way that was practical for casual interaction and discussion, and being the only series titled “Red Robin” therefore people seem to think it’s Tim’s variation of “Nightwing”, when it’s honestly not, it wouldn’t be a series that highly regarded.

I’m not saying the whole thing is a pile of shit, cause it’s also frankly not. There’s some powerful stuff in there, and some moments that really do hit super hard in ways that don’t feel superficial. Cause another thing people don’t seem to understand that when I say his characterization isn’t good in it, does not equal me saying “He is not the same exact character he was 15 years before the series came out”, it legitimately just means I feel they took the character to places that felt more forced than genuine, or just had him stuff that goes against what he’d do for the sake of just being edgy as if it’s deep, even during his circumstances and it created people having a false understanding of who Tim is at his heart, that made it incredibly difficult for Tim to get a good story for basically a freaking decade.

It’s a series I want to review because I have genuine things to say about it, but when ever I do say anything about it I feel like I see several sub-posts that are almost undeniably about me (hasn’t happened for a while cause I don’t really bother talking about stuff I don’t like anymore, cause life's hard enough, and I’ve seen the worst end of a lot of people from it) trying to downplay me, because they got defensive about it, rather than actually trying to process what I meant by things instead of just assuming it cause it’s touchy for them.

Like I’ve openly shit on Damian’s most popular series’, and accepted fandom malarkey, because I legitimately think they’re overhyped as could be, not that great, and only have the popularity they do through bandwagoning and going along with things. And I did that while knowing how defensive the Damian fandom is, and how quick they are to just leak out nasty assumptions or outright suicide bait you (yes I remember someone tried to defend me by suicide baiting someone else, but fuck them too, I never defended them or asked them to. idgaf which fandom does it. i’m clearly not on anyone's team. this isn’t a fucking sports game).

I’ve even straight up shit on pretty much every single Jason story except Under the Red Hood, while defending some Robin Jason stories, and I haven’t even got crap on me for that, which is honestly strange. Surprisingly just got told “Ya know what. Fair point. I can accept that. I don’t agree, but I can accept it.”. Which given what I have been shown of the Jason fandom I expected much worse, but they’ve honestly been really chill with me. Me and the Jason fandom has been actually some of the most pleasant interactions I’ve had outside my own bubble.

The majority of Steph’s existence as a character I’ve criticized and gotten crap on it, but honestly I found the response of countless anons going “YEAH MAN I AGREE WITH YOU” and going way harder on her than I ever did to be pretty dang annoying, and even more annoying cause people kept thinking I said stuff I freaking didn’t out of it. So every now and again people will just straight up lie about me to my face. Like you try to talk to someone that’s been preparing to talk to you by fighting an imaginary version of yourself. It’s pretty difficult if I had to be honest. Talking ‘bout bias’s like I didn’t write TimSteph fan fictions before I realized they weren’t that great and didn’t work, while realizing that I honestly didn’t think Tim was into girls in-general.

But, to get back on topic, with the Tim fandom it’s less like, open faced attempts to make you feel like a garbage human being, and more just straight up rudely dismissive as quite often the ones I’ve seen do it try to portray themselves as some calm knowledgeable unbias source of Tim knowledge.

And there’s a different sensation of annoyance at that.

Like what is the point of trying to pretend to be some source of knowledge and for a few comradery, while also being a dismissive person that first has to make others seem lesser.

And there’s some that I’ve seen do it that I don’t even think are dicks honestly, and have no problem with it, cause it’s just so innocently “I just really like the series and still think it’s good”. That I’d be confused why people would think I have a vendetta against everyone else. I’ve never been like, straight up offended more than once over the specific topic of Red Robin. But it is a thing that makes me like “I’ll get so many people giving me crap over having a different opinion for this won’t I”. And get some people trying to validate just being a bit of a fucker to me for no good reason.

So like, may or may not write a Red Robin review, but I might not cause despite quite a few people in the Tim fandom being quite chill about it, there’s quite a lot of people that are low-key toxic about it, and a lot of bad fandom things came out of it as well.

[ectonurites]

Okay, so I kinda wanna know your thoughts about how weird the fandom portrays the bat characters. Canon is ... not my favorite, but it actually offers a lot of nuance to the characters that I think makes them all interesting. Unlikable, but interesting. I noticed fanon tends to boil the batkids all into these superflat caricatures. Like, cereal obsessed manchild Dick Grayson or bad boy who's literal crimes are only because of the lazarus pit Jason Todd. Its not really a major problem, just weird

Oh I have a LOT of thoughts about this. I try so hard not to shit on how other people interact with content because like, it’s comic books! We’re all just here trying to make the best out of a mess of stuff and have fun, but admittedly a lot of fanon stuff drives me fuckin’ nuts as someone who reads a ton of comics.

Like, I like memes, obviously, I draw tons of memes with the batfam (+ yj) characters and make lighthearted jokes etc etc, and honestly if it’s just for jokes then I don’t mind people having whack interpretations of the characters quite as much. The thing that drives me up a wall though is like... when serious works and analysis and discussion are very clearly based on just the fanon interpretations without any bearing on canon aside from what you could skim from a wiki page, and it’s spoken like it’s fact! There’s ‘having fun with jokes that aren’t taking things that seriously’ and then there’s ‘blatantly mischaracterizing based on misinformation’. Way too often I see things fall into that second category.

Now, a lot of people in the batfam fandom don’t... actually read comics (or at least not frequently) and that’s not even a bad thing necessarily, like you’re 100% allowed to enjoy content however you want to! (I don’t wanna be gatekeepey, especially since comics are confusing to get into)

But the problem is that when a lot of people aren’t reading the comics, then the people who do’s opinions have a lot more influence if they’re loud enough. All it takes is one person who read something and interpreted it a specific way that might not even be correct, and then it can echo chamber and suddenly half the fandom thinks it’s 100% canon that way because ‘oh so and so said that and they actually read it’.

I also think that’s a problem with the popularity of out of context panels/blogs, while they are super funny sometimes, when people make assumptions about characters based on just a few things without context... it can lead to problems. If enough people say something enough times people just... start to think it’s true, even if it exists entirely devoid of context which changes the meaning.

Like, for example, according to canon there’s no actual confirmation Tim stalked Batman on foot for an extended period of time! We know from Lonely Place of Dying that he followed him once to get a picture to convince DIck that he still needed a Robin. Otherwise his ‘stalking’ & how he figured out Batman’s identity was more through media appearances (like newspapers and tv). This is wildly different from the common fanon idea that little Timmy was sneaking out regularly to follow Batman & Robin around with his camera.

I primarily blame Geoff Johns for this misconception because of these panels in in tt 2003 (from issue 29)

But like, think about it for a second, literally how would Jason know that? This is one of the first times he’s ever interacting with Tim, and he was dead/catatonic when that would have been happening! He is either making a wild assumption or perhaps Talia told him this when she told him about Tim, whichever of those it was it’s secondhand information not something he witnessed. Taking his word as fact here makes no sense, he was just trying to get under Tim’s skin while fighting him. But seeing those panels out of context if you haven’t actually read Lonely Place of Dying/only read a vague summary of it, and don’t necessarily know the details of the Jason situation, it could absolutely lead you to believe otherwise!

Dick as a cereal manchild is a weird one because like... okay yeah sure he likes cereal, I can think of like two panels I’m too lazy to find right now off the top of my head of him having it, but... that’s not something we see all the time! Its not like Ollie & his chili (which IS a running joke- seriously I have not read that many Green Arrow comics but the amount of times I’ve seen that man bring up chili in just in the few things I have read is wild. there’s even an official recipe. his chili has it’s own dc wiki page). Then, because Dick isn’t quite as emotionally closed off in the same way the rest of the batfam tends to be, people project literally all the pent up feelings onto him, making him this hug-crazy crybaby manchild... again it’s just very clear people who perpetuate those ideas (outside of like, maybe as jokes) haven’t actually fully read that many comics with him. I’d also even blame the Young Justice cartoon version of Dick for some other traits fanon Dick has, bc that version of him is def a bit of a Hot Mess™️ once he’s Nightwing 

Jason I understand misconceptions about probably the most because of how wildly inconsistent his writing was before the new 52 and how consistently Not Great it was once Lobdell took over. Jason’s one of the few characters I have read like, 90% of appearances for so I’m speakin’ from experience here. But still... acting like Jason as Red Hood is just a ‘bad boy rebel’ that could have a relatively happy connection with the whole Batfam is fun but unrealistic. You can not blame everything on the lazarus pit... he still has killed people! Lots of people! Willingly! Yes he has reasons and when he’s being written well it’s clear that he’s not just ‘random murder happy’ but rather ‘I kill when I feel they deserve it and that it’s necessary’ which is what keeps him an anti-hero rather than a full fledged villain most of the time, but that still keeps him so at odds with the rest of the Batfamily! Writers in more current continuity have had him compromise by only using rubber bullets in Gotham so they can have him interact with the family, but he’s still killed and will do it when he deems it necessary.

Also like... at the time of Under The Red Hood in the comics... theoretically... he hadn’t even been in the lazarus pit for well over a year. Go read Lost Days (it’s short! And except for the thing with him & Talia towards the end of the last issue it’s pretty good!), he spends a lot of time traveling the world and learning things/training before the events of UtRH. Yes you could interpret there still being some Lazarus influence going on there but I think the movie version of UtRH especially leads people to believe there’s a lot less time between his dunk in the pit and his first actions as Red Hood.

Fanon also has a lot of ideas about pit madness that vary wildly from what we have seen in canon, like yeah it’s been said to be a thing to some extent, but there’s not really the Danny Phantom Glowing Green Eyes™️ or anything like that... it’s fun to explore cool new ideas for sure but I just think it’s important to recognize the distinction between things that are actually canon and things that are popular fanon. (Also there are things that fall somewhere in between, there’s definitely stuff that isn’t 100% confirmed canon but could still be plausible/has been hinted at by some writers/is only canon in some settings)

Other things that drive me nuts are ‘quiet does-no-wrong angel Cass’ and ‘the Normal One™️ Duke’ because those just make literally no sense if you’ve read any comics with either of them... but fan content either does those versions or just completely ignores their existence a lot of the time! So! That’s a whole bigger problem!

In general though, this is fandom it’s not like this... matters that much on the grand scheme of things in life, we’re just people on social media talkin’ about comics. And this kind of misconception/flattening of characters does happen in literally every fandom ever. But it still does suck to see characters that have a lot of nuance and interesting history to play around with get reduced to a few traits that aren’t even actually that relevant to who they are.

[another-cancer]

Found Family

So I don’t post original work here, but here I am...

This can also be found on my Wattpad and AO3 both are @another_cancer

For Maribat March: Day 1 Theme: Found Family

No Ship

Bruce 46

Dick 27

Jason 22

Tim 20

Marinette 18

Damian 13

When Marinette moved to Gotham 3 months ago she never expected it to go so well. So didn’t expect it to fail, she just figured she’d live like the average Gotham citizen, glum, angry, and dark. Instead, her business is taking off and she had friends and family in Gotham. People that cared about her and people she cared about. 

It started a week after she arrived in Gotham. She applied for an entry-level job at Wayne Enterprises and had just received news of her hiring. She was as excited as someone who got a job as a secretary got. Eventually, Marinette wanted to go to university and get a degree, but it was on the back burner for the time being. For now, she was relying on her basic skills in human decency. Which is more than some of her ex-classmates could say. 

Marinette left everything in Paris. Her parents practically disowned her after the reveal, and they had been the only ones keeping her. Well besides Adrien and Chat who she now knew was the same person. But, he moved to London to be with his family after the reveal.

God the damn reveal. The reveal ruined her life because Paris was being protected by children and people didn’t like living with that knowledge. Even if Ladybug and Chat had finally defeated Hawkmoth, even if Ladybug and Chat had taken care of the city for years. The two had given up their childhood to be under-appreciated in the long run. Then Fu took the miraculous and it was all just over. Gone just like that, so she left. 

But back to where it started. A week after she moved to Gotham and a day before she started her new job at Wayne Enterprises. She was at a small cafe near her new job. It happened right after she took the first bite out of the breakfast sandwich she had ordered. 

The Scarecrow entered with some goons. 

“Well, this shall do,” he said to no one in particular, “20 people, the perfect sample for my new fear toxin, anyone want to go first?” No one spoke up and Marinette was already panicking. 

She did her research. And she had no interest in being drugged and forced to see her fears play out. So she went into Ladybug mode and accessed the situation. 20 hostages, 6 goons, and the Scarecrow. Not every goon had a weapon. The two guarding the door had guns and one more had one aimed at the hostages. 

While accessing the situation Marinette appeared calm to Scarecrow. He didn’t like calm people. He nodded over to his goons tilting his head towards the blunette they got the message. And so did she. Marinette froze. She knew there was no cure here. 

A needle was injected into her neck. Her fears came to life.

She was back in Paris. The final battle. But this isn’t a memory. This isn’t how it happened.

“Chat!” she screams.

Hawkmoth has him and she lungs at the villain. Let go of him. Gabriel gets hit right in the jaw, there was enough power behind it to make him stubble over releasing Chat. 

Marinette delivers a second punch and a third, they keep coming and with it, she yells, “That’s for ruining my life, and that’s for ruining your son’s life.”

Eventually, he’s out cold and she’s curled up into a ball. 

That’s when another needle enters her neck. She reaches for the arm behind her and twists it, only to see Red Robin, one of Gotham’s vigilantes. 

“It’s the antidote,” he says trying to calm the girl. She nods.

That was the first step in finding her new family. Six days later the second encounter happened with one Dick Grayson. Dick recognized the girl from a clip he had seen of a petite girl taking down Scarecrow while under the influence of the fear toxin. Tim had done some research to find out her name was Marinette Dupain-Cheng and she was working for Wayne Enterprise. So here she was at her desk while he combs the building looking for a sleep-deprived Tim. 

“Can I help you with something?” Marinette asked him.

Dick was staring. Shit. “Sorry, ma’am. I’m just looking for my brother, dark hair, blue eyes, sleep-deprived, have you seen him around?”

“Oh, you must be Mr. Drake’s brother. He picked up his coffee and went up to his office.

“Thank you, miss…” Dick knew her name but didn’t want it to seem weird. 

“Marinette Dupain-Cheng, but just Marinette is fine.”

“You were the girl on the news right? Involved in a Scarecrow attack?”

Marinette’s eyes went wide she did not expect that question. She didn’t realize the event was televised. Then it hit her that’s why most of her co-workers were looking at her strangely the last couple of days. They watched her knock a rouge out cold. Her fears were scary to them. They were even scared of her. Except for Tim Drake the freakin CEO who had no problem talking to her in the morning about coffee. 

“Yeah,” she responded, “I didn’t know it was televised, but that makes a lot of sense.”

“It was a pretty badass takedown.”

She let out a snort, “Thanks.”

If only her encounters with the bats and Waynes ended there. Nope, the next one happened two weeks later. At this point, Dick visited the office quite often to see Tim and have a conversation with Mari. And Tim had been trading coffee recipes with her. She even signed up for a kickboxing class, it became an outlet. 

Jason Todd was in her kickboxing class. 

Most people had already forgotten about the scarecrow incident so when she arrived at the class most people did a double-take at her size. That was until she got to kickbox there was power behind every punch and kick she delivered to the bag. She was fierce. Jason was amazed. 

On the way out he asked her, “Where’d you learn to fight like that, Pixie?”

It caught her off guard, but she answered the question, “Paris, learned when I was younger for self-defense.”

It wasn’t exactly a lie. She learned by experience starting when she was 13 to defend herself and the rest of her city from akumas. But that news never left Paris and she wasn’t going to change that. Here her life was finally normal. 

“Cool, we should spar together sometime,” Jason said. 

So they did and she kicked his ass. Then they started hanging out. Eventually, he invited her to the manor. She was shocked on arrival. She did not realize Jason was loaded. This was the kind of place she expected from someone like Tim, a CEO. Jason had told her he grew up as a street kid until he got adopted. But this shock couldn’t even compare to the shock that ran through her when she walked through the door to find Tim, Dick, and Jason. 

“Mari! Jason your friend is Marinette and you didn’t say anything?” Tim yelled at Jason.

“Wait you guys know Pixie?” Jason asked.

“She works at Wayne Enterprise,” Dick stated.

“Well, I am aware of that, we are friends. We talk about things,” Jason said, “but I wasn’t aware you knew all the employees there. I shouldn’t be surprised though Pixie is really cool and her work ethics are crazy, yet extremely organized.”

The conversation of who knows who went on for a bit. Eventually, they ended up all hanging out and this was only the first time she visited the manor. She met Bruce and Damian on her 3rd visit when she stayed for dinner.

“So Marinette, did you leave Paris due to Hawkmoth?” Bruce asked at dinner.

She froze, “You know?”

“Yes. I heard it had been dealt with.”

“How much do you know?”

Everyone at the table was a bit confused by the question. It was clear she was being defensive. But why. What was she hiding? 

“There was an emotional terrorist wasn’t there?” Damian bluntly asked. 

“That’s all you know?” Marinette asked.

They weren’t supposed to know this information, it was all confidential reserved to Parisians only. Did they know she was Ladybug? That was the real question on her mind. Would this change anything?

She ended up explaining what happened in Paris. She told them about Hawkmoth and about being Ladybug. Having her identity revealed, being disowned and all the backlash she received. Damian suddenly approved of her while Jason was outraged. Dick was shocked, and Tim sat there with this smug look on his face.

“She’s one of us?” Jason asked. 

“What do you mean by one of us?” Marinette questioned in return. 

The room looked at Jason, “What she was going to find out eventually, I mean look at her dark hair, blue eyes, she’ll fit right in. Bruce will probably pull out adoption papers by the end of the week. And if not someone will eventually spill.”

“Hate to admit it, but Jason has a point.”

Then it clicked in Marinette’s head. “Oh my god. You guys are vigilantes. You guys are the bats, aren’t you?”

Everyone but Damian gave a grin. Now 3 months after moving to Gotham Marinette has had adoption papers shoved into her hands several times and ended up moving into the manor. She gained a family. And got to be a vigilante. 

Words: 1568

[watchtower-feed]

Dating Bruce Wayne

Notes: Sorry for these drabbles. I’m working on something long and big and has something to do with Jason and the soulmate link. So enjoy these fillers for a bit.

✧ Dating Bruce Wayne is definitely what it has been advertised to be. He lives like he has his own timezone. He flirts and charms everyone he meets, man or woman.

✧ Most of the time you would find yourself waiting at a restaurant for an hour before Alfred would text you that Bruce can’t make it because he’s being held up. There are never any specifics as if you had no right to know.

✧ When he does show up, he’s late, he looks like a mess, and he greets you with a lop-sided smile and half-lidded eyes. And you melt because you remember that he did choose you and you do love him.

✧ “I miss you,” is his hello and his bitter goodbye, holding your hand for too long while he makes the car service wait. It’s minutes before he lets go and closes your door. But when you look back in the moving car, he’s already gone.

✧ Bruce’s absence is always outweighed by his affection. He loves touching you even if it’s just your shoulders or your fingers or your elbows. He always find a way to be close to you when you’re together.

✧ He doesn’t give you expensive gifts or take you out of the city or country impulsively. That part of the rumors and gossip is far from the truth. Everything he does is thoughtful and sincere. You have early dinners in cute little restaurants that feel like home. 

✧ You go hiking, rock climbing, rappelling, swimming, diving, and even skydiving. You’re convinced Bruce is definitely a daredevil. So you start running in the mornings and at night just to keep up.

     “You should be careful when you run at night. Kelley street can be dangerous on some nights. Why not stick to the main street?”

     Your eyes would widen, “How do you know I was there last night?”

     He’d grin and avoid your gaze, “I’m friends with Batman.”

✧ Never mind Bruce’s absence. What you really hate the most about dating this misunderstood billionaire is how often his life is in danger. He gets kidnapped twice a week, at least. By petty criminals, insane villains, and Batman himself.

✧ There was a time when Bruce had a welfare project for Arkham City that made him the target of every single villain so Batman had to kidnap Bruce himself and he was gone for weeks. When Batman finally returned him to his room, where you have been staying in his absence for your safety and sanity, you run up to snatch your man and punch Batman’s jaw. It hurt like hell and Bruce is quickly rubbing your knuckles.

     “Y-you! You stay away from him. It’s because of you that his life is always in danger and--”

     “Y/N,” Bruce holds you in his arms, tucking your head safe against his chest while you cry. When you turn back to the caped crusader, he’s already gone.

     “It’s not his fault.”

     “I know,”  you whisper.

✧ The next time you see Batman, you would stare at each for a while, wondering if you should apologize or say thank you. He holds up his hand and shakes his head with a smile before he disappears into the night. You were a little pissed that you didn’t even say anything and he just assumed things.

✧ One of your favorite things though is definitely seeing the family. Most of the time you see Alfred and always try to tease recipes out of him which expertly deflects.

✧ Whenever Bruce’s children are at the manor, he invites you because they love you and he knows you love them, too.

✧ What’s not to love? The eldest was the most proper gentleman and then a week after first meeting him, he turns into the cheekiest flirt that teases you and Bruce. You love to play along with him because it makes Bruce very uncomfortable.

     “So how’s his equipment these days? He’s getting old, might need to start baking in that oven soon.” Everyone around would spit out anything they’re drinking or just gape. Except for you.

     “Oh, the equipment is still in very good condition.” Dick laughs hard at that. “As for the oven… I think there’s enough of all of you to love for several lifetimes. Right, Bruce?”

     Bruce rolls his eyes with a smile as his children tease him and jump on him at the same time.

✧ You’ve never thought about having kids with Bruce because whenever you’re around his kids, it feels like they’re yours as well. Especially Damian.

✧ He would always tug on your clothes to get your attention (ever since he accidentally called you mom and his siblings never let him live it down).

     “You’re leaving now?”

     “Yeah, baby. I’m sorry,” you crouch down and hug him tight like a teddy bear, “but hey. When your dad goes away on business tomorrow, I’ll be staying here for a week. Does that sound good?”

      He hums and kisses you on the cheek before he walks back into the manor.

      You turn to Bruce, wide eyes, mouth open, and touching your cheek, “Did you just see that? He’s so precious.”

      Bruce nods his head and chuckles.

✧ Tim, Cass, and Jason were a different story. They were a lot more reserved and doesn’t really know how to talk to you first so you do it because you don’t want them to feel left out. You thought doing a puzzle with them was such a great idea. You thought wrong.

     “Tim, stay on your fucking side.”

     “It’s a puzzle, Jason.”

     “We’re supposed to be doing this together,” you instinctively say. Big mistake.

     Jason glares, “Who the fuck died and made you boss?”

     A slap rings loudly in the living room, making everyone gape at Bruce’s tall figure. You look between Jason and Bruce and then approach Jason. He quickly slaps your hand away and Bruce is tensing again. You quickly get up and hold Bruce in place until Jason leaves the room.

✧ You drag Bruce into the study and slap him hard. Your hand hurts but that doesn’t stop you from glaring and yelling at him.

     “How does it feel, Bruce? Do you feel shocked and embarrassed? That’s what Jason is feeling right now. He probably feels hurt too.” Bruce stays and avoids your gaze. “God! Jason didn’t even mean it. You know how he is, he’s just very expressive and there’s nothing wrong with that. But everything is wrong about hitting your child even if-- no. Especially if you say you did it for me.”

✧ You keep yelling at him and warning him not to hurt his children no matter their fault. Tim and Cass can hear you from the living room and look at each other with pained expressions. Jason hides in the hallway and listens to you berate Bruce, his hand on his cheek.

✧ When you get home from a stressful day at work and still no messages from Bruce after the fight days ago, you find three of his children on the floor trying to finish the puzzle. They greet you like it’s the most normal thing to come home to. You drop your things and quickly go to them, tugging them all into one hug until their faces are squished together and the puzzle pieces are in disarray.

    “I thought I would never get to see you again.”

    Jason rubs your back and you nuzzle your nose against his cheek.

    Tim laughs, “Are you kidding? Your slap pretty much made Bruce love you even more.”

    Cassandra snorts, “If that’s even possible.”

✧ Bruce is getting a little concerned at how violent you’re getting though. He thinks it might be his influence and you laugh so hard he pouts like a child.

     “You? I think it makes more sense to blame Batman. That freak just makes my blood boil and suddenly I have all this pent up rage and I don’t know where it came from.”

     Bruce blinks for a moment before he laughs, doubled over, clutching his stomach.

✧ Sometimes you’re sad when you see how Bruce acts around children. Whether it’s a charity event, Wayne orphanage visit, or just walking past them in the street, he always slows down and takes the time to converse with them. His eyes would widen as he listens to them talk and then his laugh would be the loudest.

✧ Sometimes you forget that Bruce Wayne isn’t just the playboy rich kid the media has pegged him to be. He was also just a child. A child who lost his parents too soon. Truly he’s a child of Gotham through and through.

✧ You would curl up against Bruce in the car and nuzzle your cheeks against his shoulder. He would smile but raise an eyebrow.

     “Something good happened today?”

     You shake your head, “Every day is good when I’m with you.”

✧ Things are getting way too serious and public between you and Bruce, and the day he has dreaded the most has finally come. You’re kidnapped and held for ransom for Bruce Wayne’s head.

✧ Bruce has prepared long and hard for this. It was part of the reason why he decided to date you seriously. Because he can handle this.

✧ You scream at him that he’s an idiot for coming to get you alone. He smiles and says he’s missed you. 

     You cry, “They’re going to kill you, Bruce.”

     He smiles, “They can try.”

✧ Of course, you mutter. He has backup. Batman saves you first and you’re already yelling at him for picking up the wrong person.

    “It’s Bruce they’re after!”

    Batman only groans and leaves you on the roof with Robin. He comes back with Bruce Wayne, suit slashed and hair disheveled, but no wounds. They leave you there while they clean up the thugs in the warehouse.

✧ “Bruce,” you call out to him in a low voice and it makes him panic, assessing where your injuries are. You hold his arms, “Marry me.”

✧ Watchtower Masterlist ✧

[douvle-eh]

these are the days it never rains (but it pours)

these are the days it never rains (but it pours)

Summary: Jason stays at the manor after an injury and learns a few things about Dick and maybe offer some comfort. Just Jason trying to be a good brother. Gen.

An: I love a good dad Bruce as much as the next guy but sometimes I also like to indulge in bad dad Bruce so….here you go. If you don’t like abusive Bruce (mentioned only) please don’t read this. Also don’t expect this to make any sense. My writing process works like this - I have random dialogue that pop in my head and at times it’s hard to make sense of what I’m trying to get thru but I just build the sentences around those dialogues.

 -----

It’s raining.

Jason watches as the rain blurs the view from the huge window. A flash of lightning races by, thunder comes a few seconds later indicating that the storm is passing, though knowing Gotham the rain would be staying with them for another week before it clears up to its usual smog.

He lets out a sigh. It’s bad enough that he got hurt in a routine patrol; it was worst that the bat brats had run into him during his struggle to crawl to his safe house and had gone ahead and snitched to Nightwing. The blue bird had forced him to go back to the cave and together with Alfred, they were able to convince him to stay the night or until he healed (though they all knew he would sneak away before then).

Honestly, he would have chosen bleeding out in an alley way to this.

He turns back to the room. They’re in one of the smaller living rooms (Jason still rolls his eyes at the luxury of the manor, who needs multiple living rooms? He never did get use to it) the room is a warm neutral color and consists of two large couches, a love seat and two armchairs (one of which he’s currently sitting on) all positioned to face the large fireplace.

It amazes Jason that everyone is here, and when he says everyone, he means even Duke is here and Jason feels more like an outsider than ever.

He’s tried his hardest to stay away, making sure that he never accidentally run into them but surprise surprise here he is, talk about the worst family reunion. And though the tension between them isn’t as bad as it was before, it’s still awkward.

Duke and Cass give him curious glances, Steph smiles at him when he catches her eye but he hasn’t spoken to them in who knows how long. Tim glances at him warily as if waiting for him to start something, and Damian glares his way whenever they meet eyes. Don’t even get him started on Bruce. The man hasn’t even given him a passing glance. The only one who’s at least trying to pull him in a conversation is Dick and he doesn’t care for the look Dick is giving him, like a puppy who’s head butting you to get your attention because he knows you’re sad.

God, this was hell, sure he’s no longer activity trying to kill them, but they’re far from being a happy family. No matter how hard Dickie’s trying to keep the family together, it’s just too much hard feelings and not enough effort on all their parts.

Besides, the manor brings too many memories with it. Everything pretty much looks the same as it did when he was younger save for a few new pictures and knick knacks. The furniture is the same, the set up of the room, even the weather is the same.

He still remembers the time he spent curled up on the couch reading a book during rainy days as the fireplace warmed him from the Gotham freeze. Bruce would be by him reading his own book and kid him used to hope that this could go on forever, that maybe after all that life had given him that he finally found a place to belong. He remembers looking up at Bruce and getting a smile back, he remembers…he remembers… fire… pain… betrayal-

Suddenly, he feels like he’s floating, like his whole being is just his eyes, like he’s just watching everything happening as his body becomes numb. There is a crushing emptiness in his chest and he has the feeling of being closed in, the room is too crowded, too hot and the voices start to mesh together.

He needs to get out.

Jason takes in a sharp breath silencing the conversation between some of them and is ready to stand up (screw his broken leg). He pushes himself out of the chair and sees Dick standing up ready to help. He shakes his head at his older brother and starts to limp out but stops when he hears a clipped voice from someone entering the room.

“I do hope Master Jason that you’re not thinking about leaving.” Jason turns to the butler (grandfather & caregiver) before he pastes on a smile trying to ignore his siblings’ questioning gaze.

“Of course not Alfie, just gonna walk around a bit, I mean what do you take me for?”

“The fact that you’re not even supposed to be on that leg, much less be walking around; I would say an idiot sir.” Jason grimaces as the younger kids titter at that, he really should have just stayed in that alley and drowned in the rain.

He sits back down and carefully lifts his leg back up.

Dick pulls out a table which Alfred lays the tray of drinks on. He looks at him with a silent question of ‘Are you ok?’ and Jason just nods curtly at him; he really didn’t need the golden boy fussing over him acting like the perfect caring older brother. He knows that’s all bull anyways, just guilt and regret working behind those feelings.

He turns back to the eyes staring at him and narrows his own ready to let them know where they can shove it, but before he gets the chance, Dick interrupts. The eldest turns back to his younger siblings and smiles as he heads next to Damian on the couch. The younger ones gazes automatically follow Dick to where he sits. Jason snorts, Dick Grayson - Ever the center of attention.

“Did I ever tell you guys about the time Bruce and I convinced the whole league that I was a ghost?” Dick starts and Jason sees the family perk at this. Steph stands up and walks closer to Dick, a gleeful smile on her face.

“Oooo, tell me more.”

Dick leans back and throws a hand around Damian’s shoulder, collecting his thoughts before he continues.

“Well, when I was eight it was my first time at the Watchtower and I wasn’t really known as Robin yet, but I was able to talk Bruce –“

“Beg.” Bruce interrupts while Dick rolls his eyes.

“Begged Bruce to let me visit,” he amended before continuing “Anyway, so I went with Bruce to the Watchtower, I guess you can imagine how a lot of the heroes viewed Batman at that time. He was the dark knight all grime, vengeance and ‘I work alone’ hero and suddenly he shows up with a kid dressed up like a traffic light with scaly underwear…” Jason lets his brothers’ story become his anchor as the feeling in his chest lightens and the memories slowly unravel until they disappear for the night. He watches as Dick talks animatedly, he has the attention of everyone in the room as he makes them laugh about his shenanigans and pokes fun at Bruce when the man tries to add to the story or correct what he thought was a mistake.

Jason knows it’s immature of him but as he watches Dick he feels a sting of jealously for the easy way that Dick Grayson could make Bruce relax while he tells stories that to them sound like fairy tales. He’s sure that all of his siblings felt the same jealousy.

Dick Grayson was a charmer, charismatic in a way that’s different from Bruce, more genuine. Maybe it’s his background as a circus performer or maybe it’s because out of all of their siblings he was the only one really grew up with loving parents. But Dick Grayson could soften rock and mold it like clay.

Dick continues with another story from his childhood with Bruce. A Bruce none of them really know. The one who read bedtime stories with funny voices, who readily gave hugs and kisses and sweet nicknames and one who showed that he loved and cared. Of course Jason can’t fault him for it though, Dick was Bruce’s first kid, and Dick had just turned eight at that time, meaning Bruce had him when he was younger than all of them, when he hadn’t lost so many people yet and still had enough light and hope and control over his life.

Dick knew Bruce at a different time, he knew a Bruce that none of them ever had the chance of meeting and for that he was sure all of them listen to his stories with a sense of awe and jealousy.

Jason knows that Dick regrets it, had spoken to him enough to realize that the other man blamed himself for it. He had once confined to him before (under the influence) saying that he felt that his failings made Bruce the way he is, that he messed it up for his younger siblings, that maybe if he had been a better robin, son or partner that there would have been more of Bruce left for them.

Jason wished for that too, but it’s not like him to wonder too long about that. He can’t torture himself about what he should have gotten from Bruce as his son; he let his life be ruled by that long enough.

Dick turns to him and smiles, his eyes bright as he basks in his siblings’ laughter and their questions.

Yeah Dick was just the lucky one, the favorite, the golden child - it was nothing against them.

 ----

 Jason wakes up in his old room and he’s surprised that he fell asleep in the first place. He stares into the darkness before he starts to get restless, he sits up quickly hoping to escape the memories creeping at the edge of is vision. Carefully he brings his legs down and pushes himself to stand wobbling only for a second before he’s limping out of the door. Jason knows that Alfred wouldn’t be too happy with him walking around his leg, but he can’t stand to be in his room right now.

He thinks maybe he should head for the kitchen to get a drink and see if they have any sleeping pills he could take. He hates those things but it’s better than roaming around the manor like a sad ghost. God wouldn’t that just complete his night.

He’s in the hallway but stops when he hears voices from the study. The door is cracked open and the voices are soft enough that he can’t really understand the words. Quietly he peeks in and realizes that the owners of the voices aren’t exactly in the room. Even with a broken leg Jason is able to skillfully lighten his footsteps and quietly push the door open. The study is empty but he can hear the voices a little bit clearer now.

When he steps in, he realizes that the grandfather clock that hides the cave is open and as he gets closer he can finally hear the voices. It’s Dick and Bruce, he sticks close to the wall as he tries to make sense of their argument.

Really he’s not surprised, Dick and Bruce had always had arguments, seems like they never really grew out of it. He should probably leave, it’s not like he never heard it all before, it usually had Dick trying to talk some sense to Bruce and Bruce arguing that he was wrong. He tries to turn when he suddenly hears his name.

“You need to get over yourself Bruce, Jason is up there and you can’t even say a single word to him. He’s taken the steps, he’s slowly opening up to us, but you have to do your part. You’re his father.”

“He doesn’t want to talk to me.” Bruce answers gruffly and Jason realizes that Bruce’s voice sound almost … distant. This wasn’t Bruce Wayne talking, this was Batman.

“How do you know? You’ve never spoken to him.”

“I’ve tried” Jason wants to snort at this; really he couldn’t have guessed with the way that Bruce has been acting all night, “it doesn’t end well.”

“Well, were you listening? And I mean really listening, not telling him what or how to feel or pushing your morals on to him.”

“He needs to understa-“

“He does, he’s trying!” Dick interrupts, his voice rising and Jason can just imagine him running a hand thru his hair in exasperation. “He hasn’t killed anyone in a while; he’s been using rubber bullets, he’s been curbing his anger even I can see it and I…I don’t know what you want from him Bruce.”

“He knows what I want.”

“No Bruce, he doesn’t and right now I don’t think even you know what you want. You’re just afraid.” There’s a silence between them and Jason slowly moves his leg to ease the weight, he thinks maybe they were done before Dick whispers out “You haven’t changed one bit from when I first met you.” Jason sucks in a breath as he hears the weight of disappointment and he’s confused. What did Dick mean that Bruce hasn’t changed?

Bruce is confused too and asks “What?”

“You’re still that same person from when I was eight. When I just lost my parents and you took me in. Don’t get me wrong you were great, you helped me and loved me and you were what I needed. You gave me a reason to go on but there were times when I felt like I was the one taking care of you.”

“I don’t know what you’re talking about. I tried my best.”

“I know you did but I quickly realized that I had to deal with your emotions that you never dealt with when your own parents died and…and maybe the reason why we got along so well when I was a kid was because to me it felt like we were just two kids in a big house who understood each other because of our shared tragedies. But the moment I started to move on and leave my hurts behind I realized that you never would.” Dick voice sounds exhausted as he continues, “I was growing up but I still felt like I had to be there to support you. I had to become the adult for you, and I’m still doing that Bruce. Anytime there’s a situation where you can’t handle emotionally you start pushing people away. You’re so afraid of losing them and I have to come here every time to fix your relationship for you and to tell you how to deal with it. I’m just so tired - mentally, emotionally I was spreading myself so thin just so you could feel better about yourself.”

“I never asked.”

“Oh of course not...you would never ask for help, you’re so afraid of loving those kids Bruce but they already love you. God they would do anything for you and so would I, but I’m not going to let you take advantage of them and raise them the way you raised me. It’s too late for me because I can’t refuse you anymore, but I can fight for them. I know what it’s like to be at the end of your disappointment Bruce, you’ve brainwashed me into a pathetic robot that needs your love and approval.”

“That’s not true.”

“Yes, it is, you don’t know how much I’ve given up or done just to get your approval Bruce. My job, my friends, my own team,” At this Dick’s voice gets a little desperate  as Jason leans more heavily on the wall next to the clock, “What more do you want, what more does Jason have to give up, he already gave you his life!”

“Get out.” The voice growls out and Jason steadies himself ready to leave just in case Dick come ups.

“No, this is what I mean Bruce, the minute I try to make you face your own emotions and-“

“I said get out!”

“-start acting like a father for once-“

“Leave!”

“No!”

“Get out before-“

“Before what?! You hit me again?!” Jason feels himself freeze at that, no, that’s…that not what Dick meant, sure Batman had beaten Jason before, but that was before he knew who he was and was pit-crazy. Jason is sure Dick didn’t mean that Bruce would hit one of his kids for no reason, he’s not like Willis. Bruce was always supposed to be safe. But Dick continues “…because you can’t control me or because you don’t want to hear what I have to say? Go ahead, blame me for everything! Hit me! You know I’m pathetic enough to come crawling back asking for forgiveness so just do it!”

Jason waits, his heartbeat pulsing in his ears as he prepares to intervene, he waits for a slap, a punch, anything. He knows that if Bruce did lay a hand on Dick that he would run down the cave and throw his own fists in even if he has to crawl down.

“That…was a mistake.” Bruce finally answers and he hears a short laugh, bitter filled and mocking.

“Of course it was, the first time.” Then in a tired voice he adds, “and I’ve forgiven you for all of them Bruce.”

Suddenly Jason feels so betrayed, not just by Bruce but by Dick too. Dick always tried to get them to talk, to open up, and to make sure that they didn’t end up keeping things inside so it didn’t eat them up or destroy them. He made sure that Bruce was treating them ok and told them to come to him should they feel the need too. Yet he hid in the dark his own troubles, and Dick for years had preached to them to heal and in shame he had wiped up his tears with a smile and hid ugly bruises and bloody lips in the dark shadows of their broken family.

Again he thought about what he had been jealous of Dick about. Yes, Dick knew a Bruce they didn’t, a Bruce who had less control of his anger, whose parents’ death still felt fresh especially after taking in Dick, and whose life for years had revolved around the mask and nothing else. Bruce had to learn to open up again and his mistakes left their mark on his oldest child.

The silence stretches and Jason wonders now if they’re done. He wonders who will leave first, Dick or Bruce? The answer doesn’t surprise him when Dick starts once again.

“Bruce…” the voice beseeches softly and Jason knows even after all that Dick is the one reaching out for forgiveness. Jason doesn’t think he can handle this anymore, he flees. Quickly he wobbles out of the study, he goes back to the hall way and finds his way to his room, the conversation still tearing thru his mind.

God he hates himself. He knows that Dick and Bruce never had a perfect relationship; he was there front and center for most of their fights when he was a kid. And just like how Dick knew a different Bruce Jason knew a different Dick, he wasn’t always the perfect brother; he remembers when he was an angry teen, one who had felt betrayed after his mantle had been taken from him. He remembers the glare that Dick had given him looking like the weight of the world was on his shoulders. And he remembers the Dick Grayson who didn’t want nor care for that title of older brother.

He gets to his room and steadies himself on the nightstand as he sits on the bed. He grabs at his head pulling the strands of his hair, damn it damn it damn it.

He shouldn’t have listened in, he was perfectly content to imagine that Dick and Bruce had a great relationship and that everything had worked out after he died, because if not…what does that mean for him and the rest of his siblings? That if the golden child of the family couldn’t get approval from Bruce, was all their efforts and sacrifices all for nothing? Was his death all for nothing?

“Jay?” Jason turns to the door where Dick is peering at him, the light from the hallway shadowing his face.

“Knock.” He grits out and the older man tilts his head and even though Jason can’t see his face he knows that he probably has that damned look of his again.

“I did. Can I come in?”

“’sa free country.” Dick takes a moment before he walks in and sits on the bed by him.

“Nightmares?” Dick asks and Jason wishes it was. Nightmares he could deal with.

“Yeah sure.” There’s an awkward silence between them, Jason doesn’t know if Dick knew he had heard his argument with Bruce, so he asks. “What are you doing up?”

“Just…checking on everyone, Tim has a bad habit of staying up way past when he should and Steph and Cass sometimes gets the idea of baking in the middle of the night with Babs on the phone.”

Jason turns to look at the man and tries to imagine the bruises on his face. Imagines his excuses and his smiles and his avoidance of any questions about them with practiced ease, and they as non metas are used to making excuses for unexplained bruises.

Jason wonders how Dick could handle it, being in the presence of his abuser. How can he smile and joke and trust the person who’s beaten him down and made him feel less…but in a way he can understand. Bruce wasn’t someone you could easily leave and forget. Bruce could bring people together, push them to do their best and light up their passion to fight for something. He left you feeling like you could own the world, but the minute you turn to him for approval he stares back at you like you haven’t done enough so you push on, dragging your broken body and splintered mind begging for another chance.

Dick wasn’t wrong, Bruce had a way to make you feel pathetic. Hell, he was only with Bruce for a few years and he’s still chasing after the guys love and approval, he couldn’t imagine being under him for almost two decades and living thru all his drama and trying to make sense of his messed up emotions. Let alone managing it and trying to piece out the puzzle of his psyche so it could be presented as normal for others so no one else had to deal with it.

“Jay?” Jason looks into concerned eyes and realizes that he hasn’t said anything, “did you…want to talk about it? It may help.” Jason holds himself back from laughing mockingly at this, Dick was the biggest hypocrite. Yeah, talk about it; it’ll help Jason and all the while Dick tightened the reins on his own problems.

He thinks about taking the things he’s heard from the cave and just throwing it back on Dicks face, start yelling at him for his idiocy until he’s hoarse and shake his shoulders to get him to spill everything.

He wants to punch him in the face (and sees the irony of that) and tell him everything wrong with what he’s doing and if it had been him a few months ago he would have. Just let him have it and damned the consequences.

He knows that people see him as nothing more than a muscled wall of anger who doesn’t think and who lets his fists and guns do all the talking but Jason wasn’t just a bomb waiting to happen (barring the first few years after his resurrection). Many seem to forget that he was reasonable too. He was level headed enough and could fix a problem without his guns. Otherwise he would never make it as a respected crime lord or a vigilante that could hold candle to Batman himself.

So he tries a different tactic, maybe bring up his past and lay down a picture for Dick to compare to, or at least see how deep this rabbit hole went.

“I never really knew my dad.” He starts, trying to sound nostalgic, “He was in and out of prison most of the time.” Dick scoots closer and Jason sees him getting ready to comfort, his eyes are open and sad and Jason wonders how many times Dick has lent a shoulder to someone that his actions right now is automatic, that in just a few seconds his face and his eyes soften to look caring and empathetic.

“But when he was around … well it wasn’t bad, I mean it wasn’t like some other kids in our neighborhood. Just a smack here and there for talking back or not doing what he asked. He broke my wrist once, but …” He glances at Dick and he sees him nod understandingly urging him to go on.

“I deserved it.”

“No Jay,” Dick shakes his head, anger in his eyes and Jason can see how strongly Dick feels about it, “no one deserves that. That’s abuse, he had no right to hit you.”

Jason nods slowly; at least he knows Dick knows abuse for what it is.

“Yeah? Did your dad ever hit you?”

“Never.” Dick answers with conviction so Jason chooses now to strike.

“Did Bruce?” At this Dick stiffens and realization dawns in his eyes, he knows that Jason had heard. Jason watches as suddenly Dick puts up a guard, something unnamed flashes in his eyes and suddenly he pulls back.

“That…that’s different.”

Jason is quick to answer now, “Yeah, you’re right. I mean it doesn’t matter if he’s smacked me a few times then right? Or Tim or Damian?” Dick’s face suddenly looses all color before his jaws tighten and his hands ball into fists.

“That’s not fair.”

Jason laughs bitterly.  “What’s not fair? That I’m calling you out for playing the martyr again?”

“I’m not-“

“Oh fess up, you don’t get to act like a self righteous prick and talk about how Bruce can’t face his problems when you’re doing the same thing.” They’re quiet again and Jason wonders if anyone else can hear them. He can see Dick’s hands shaking and he feels enough pity to give him a way out. “Fine, tell me this, the times that Bruce hit you, was it when you were in costume? Cuz, hey, I can understand that, it comes with the territory, but Bruce has no right to hit you outside of it.”

The silence is all that Jason needs to hear for an answer and he feels his blood boiling. He wants to ask, ask what led to Bruce hitting him outside of their costume, ask what he said and what he did that made him think he warranted Bruce’s fists, but as he stares at Dick he knows he won’t get an answer. Dick Grayson would rather die with his secrets than ruin any semblance of peace he has found between them. And Jason thinks maybe Dick is trying to do him a favor by not telling him.

“He didn’t mean it.” Dick whispers and they both know how that sounds.

‘They didn’t mean it’

‘They were just angry’

‘It’s my fault’

‘They promised it won’t happen again.’

It’s the loud slam of his fist on the nightstand that makes them both jump. Jason didn’t even realize how deeply he’s breathing, but he can’t help it, if he hears another excuse from Dick he’s gonna stand up and start screaming and wake the whole house. He’ll throw everything down and tear it all raw and all the anger and darkness in their family would be splayed on the floor. But he knows if he does that Dick would never be the same, no matter what anyone says Dick has been the main reason that their family is surviving, he’s filled the holes, hid the secrets, soothe the hurts. He’s given his blood, sweat and tears into making it somewhat functional. It wasn’t perfect, he failed many times (and Jason can’t help but be bitter about the fact that he’s one of those failings) but he also did a lot of things right. He never gave up on any of them and to tear it all down now would break him, because Dick was the heart of this family and the family was his heart.

And for all of Bruce’s flaws and secrets Jason knows he cares for them, either because they were useful to him or because they fit in his agenda of saving Gotham in a never ending mission. He can’t help but feel disgusted by the fact that he cares about Bruce too, that even with every secret that’s being ripped open showing Jason how messed up he is, Jason still cares.

But…he can’t let Dick keep doing this to himself, keeping those secrets. Hiding the emotional, mental and physical bruises. Someday Dick will break under that and the family will follow right after. He knows it isn’t much, (too little, too late) but he may keep the family from falling apart just a little longer.

“Promise me,” he looks Dick right in the eyes because he wants him to know that this isn’t arguable, “if Bruce lays a hand on you again that you come to me.” Jason finalizes what he has to say to make sure that Dick understands, “And if you don’t and I find out, I’m done. I’m out of this family.”

Dick tries to read his eyes while surprise, confusion and hesitance shine back in his own. The array of emotions doesn’t surprise Jason, he’s been slow to fixing his relationship with the eldest. And he’s been guilty of leaving everything to Dick when things go south, ignoring his pleas and outstretched hands when he needed help so much so that Dick learned to do things on his own while barely keeping himself a float. He figured out how to come up every once in a while to breathe before being pulled down again.

So Jason tries.  

“I know that…that I may not be the first person for you to talk to and it might not mean a lot now since I haven’t been around but…“he tries to find the words, settles on the truth and aims to hit Dick where it matters, his sense of duty to their family “we’re the older brothers right? We protect the family. Together. It’s my burden to share.”

He can see Dick’s eyes shine before a fight starts in them, sees as Dick looks at every angle of his offer. Jason can slowly start to see the acceptance in his eyes but he also knows that Dick will always carry the heavier load on his own back.

“I’m not asking you to tell me all of your secrets Dick. Just like I will never tell you all of mine, I just want to be there when you deal with Bruce’s bull headedness and misplaced anger. That’s all I ask.”

Jason doesn’t know how long he waits, but he counts it as a win when Dick doesn’t automatically leave or smile it off.

Lighting flashes and the thunder echoes before Dick scoots closer to him. Before long he feels a weight on his shoulder as Dick finally lets himself relax even if it’s just for a little while.

It’s this that Jason realizes for the first time (at three in the morning on a rainy night in his old room surrounded by everything he left behind) that he finally feels like he’s part of the family. That along with his older brother they would keep the secrets together so that their growing family could someday find peace.

He lays his cheek on his brothers head and feels something expanding in his chest trying to lodge the ball in his throat out. No, this isn’t the time, Dick needs him to be the strong one right now.

So he pushes the feeling down and listens as the rain outside continues to pour.

END

Why can't we give love that one more chance?

'Cause love's such an old fashioned word And love dares you to care for The people on the edge of the night

And love dares you to change our way of Caring about ourselves

 This is ourselves under pressure…

 -       Under pressure by Queen/David Bowie

[enigmainvestigations]

Character list

This is going to be a brief breakdown of Ed’s relationships with the other characters in Gotham mostly from his Riddler days. This is from his perspective, theirs are mostly still open (besides the ones that I explain here). Also, these relations can change over time which many of them will. Please note- This list is for those who are curious, and for writers who might need some inspiration in the case a character comes up in their writing and they get stuck. You don’t have to reference this, these are just my current ideas on these character relations.   

Heroes: 

Batman- HATE. I’ve gone over this already in his bio, but I’ll use this to explain some things from Batman’s perspective. At first Batman saw Ed as someone unable to control their compulsive behavior, and thought Eddie just needed some intervention. However, as the years went by and he began to be the focus of Ed’s schemes he started to see him as a cunning, intelligent, and very dangerous criminal. Especially when it became clear to him that Ed had no regard for others, and Ed’s plans regularly put other’s lives and well being at risk. He knows that Ed’s intelligence and his ability to process and retain knowledge is extremely high, and he worries that Ed’s intellect might surpass his at some point. Ed’s motives were always rather simplistic even if his methods weren’t, but Batman saw his potential and believed if Ed truly applied himself he could become much too dangerous. Because of this he handled Eddie very specifically. He would normally take on the Riddler on his own in hopes of controlling their interactions, and keep himself as the main focus of Ed’s ire. Nightwing- Greatly dislikes. From his time as Robin being a bratty teen with a smart mouth, Ed sees him as an annoyance despite only having brief encounters with him through the years. Oracle- Ed has no idea Oracle is the previous Batgirl, but he REALLY dislikes her. Since Batman doesn’t really control Batgirl he’s had more interactions with her than the Robins. He’s been on the receiving end of too many of her beastmode attacks to have anything but negative feelings toward her. Jason Todd- **I haven’t decided if this is post, pre, or if the Red Hood arc is going to play out like the canon* Robin (Tim)- Ed doesn’t like any of the Robins, but he does have a very slight respect for Tim. He’s had much more interactions with him than the previous two, and he knows that he’s smart and capable. He certainly keeps his guard up around him, and chooses his words wisely so not to divulge too information. Batgirl (Steph)- Dislikes, but doesn’t take her too seriously. 

Batgirl (Cass)- Dislikes. Only in his brief interactions with her, he really doesn’t like her. The reasons should be obvious.

Alfred Pennyworth- None

Jim Gordon- This one is a bit complicated. When Ed worked for the GCPD he had very few interactions with Jim, but the two were cordial. When Ed became The Riddler Jim felt betrayed since he used a lot of information he’d complied while working at the department. Over the years though Jim began to see Ed as someone who couldn’t control himself and was suffering with mental issues. He took the stance of treating Ed the way he treated him, but tries not to get him too riled up. He figured out that if he treated Ed with respect then Ed tended to behave and not get too excitable. On the other hand, Eddie actually likes interacting with Jim. He finds him quite entertaining, and likes watching Jim try to hold his tongue in his presence. 

Renee Montoya- Complicated as well. When Ed worked for the GCPD Renee found him to be very odd, and he gave her the creeps though she couldn’t quite put her finger on why. When Ed became The Riddler she also felt betrayed, but she was much more confrontational with her anger toward him than Jim. Through time she also began to see Eddie the same way as Gordon, but she finds it hard to control her distaste toward him. The fact that he can escape handcuffs, and any cell they put him in makes her very nervous around him whenever he’s in custody. Eddie tends to find her outbursts rather funny, and usually would try to get on her nerves whenever he was bored when around her. Renee was rarely the main focus of his attention, but when she was he would be quite rude to her in hopes of getting her riled up. Harvey Bullock- Also complicated. Same situation as the other two, but Harvey actually liked Ed a bit when he worked at the department. He found his snide comments to be very humorous, as long as they were directed toward someone else. He also felt betrayed, but Harvey personally suffered more from Ed’s betrayal. Since then he has a deep disdain toward Ed, and feels zero sympathy or understanding for him. He’s very open about his anger with Eddie, and would often berate him whenever he was in custody. Eddie however loves interacting with Bullock. He finds Harvey’s anger very entertaining, and typically focuses on baiting him into an outburst. He’s used these situations multiple times as a distraction to escape custody.

Villains:

Bane- They haven’t had much interaction, but anyone who breaks the Bat Ed is going to like at least a little bit. Black Mask- Good. Ignoring Roman’s trigger happy temper, Ed tends to find him easy to work with since Roman’s motives are relatively simple. Clayface- Good. He’s hired Basil on a few occasions and found him pretty easy to work with. Catwoman- Dislikes, despite the two not having any real confrontations. The two are respectful to each other, but Selina thinks outside the box too much for Ed’s liking. She’s also better at certain skills than he is, which really messes with his ego since he doesn’t trust her. Long and short of it is- Selina makes Ed feel inadequate so he avoids her, but he’s not stupid so he doesn’t piss her off. Harley Quinn- As The Riddler Ed found Harley to be an annoyance, and couldn’t understand why Joker wouldn’t just kill her. He viewed her as unintelligent, and a waste of time. He generally treated her like he would a child, which sometimes worked and other times Harley found patronizing. *By the time Ed quits his criminal career however, him and Harley have an odd relationship. They’ve survived some very close calls, and even though he still finds her annoying he seems to accept her presence around him even though he tends to ignore most of what she says. Their chumminess is odd, and quite suspicious to everyone else in the city.  Hush-**I haven’t decided if this is post Hush, pre Hush, or if Hush plays out like the canon or not**

The Joker- Ed is one of the few people who can be around Joker repeatedly without getting killed. He made the mistake of teaming up with Joker once, and quickly learned his lesson never to do it again. After that he figured out how to deal with Joker, and kept him at arms length. He has The Joker mostly figured out, and doesn’t find interactions with him to be as unpredictable as others do. He also likes that whenever Joker comes to him needing something silly for one of his plans, he can charge him ridiculously high prices and Joker will pay without a second thought. His reputation of dealing with Joker is a bit of an ego boost for him, thinking he’s learned how to manipulate him. The reality is though, Joker doesn’t kill him simply because he finds Ed’s sensitive ego and his self destructive behavior hilarious. Killer Croc- Eddie thinks they’re alright, but they’re really not. 

Mad Hatter- They’re alright. Ed can’t be around Jervis for too long because his fantastical ramblings get on his nerves, but he tends to play along with Jervis’ delusions enough that Jervis thinks he understands. Because of this Ed finds him easy to influence. He has little interest in Jervis, but his mind control tech is something Ed’s always been trying to get his hands on. Unfortunately for him, currently Jervis is unwilling to fully share it.

Mr. Freeze- Its really 50/50 with these two. Even though Ed sees Victor as an easy way to make some money, or someone to have do some dirty work for him if need be, he also finds Victor’s anger to be exhausting to deal with. He knows Victor doesn’t like him and only really uses him for his own objectives, but Victor also makes their interactions quiet rocky. Ed will work with him if the opportunity arises, but he’ll keep their business brief. The Penguin- Good. The two of them have very similar skills at persuasion, manipulation, and deception. They practically do a constant dance of give and take with each other, to the point that now they both see the other as a valuable resource. Since they both dabble in similar assets the two have found its easier to work together than to be competition, which has really made them both more successful in the long run. From Ed’s perspective this is a battle of intelligence, but he has recognized that Os is aware of it and surprisingly isn’t put off by it like others are. He respects Os’s boundaries, and finds business with him to be smooth sailing. Os has a good level of respect for Ed. Not only because of his intelligence, and reliability, but also that Ed is smart enough to never fully trust Os. He’s used to being underestimated by people, and Ed’s unwillingness to divulge too much is a level of cunning he admires. *Os is not happy about Ed’s “career” change. He doesn’t believe Ed has turned over a new leaf, but his sudden switch makes him very uneasy. He has people watching Eddie very closely.  Poison Ivy- Not at all good. Ed made the mistake of underestimating Ivy early on, giving her the opportunity to see him as the manipulative jerk he really was. She hasn’t trusted him since, and he usually has to avoid her in order to not get crushed by her plants.  Ra’s al Ghul- None. **I currently really want to keep the Gotham criminals in the dark about the League** Scarecrow- Dislike. Considering that Crane is an actual intellectual and a genius, Ed does not like interacting with him. He isn’t outwardly hostile toward Crane, but he definitely avoids him whenever he can. Crane’s intelligence really messes with Ed’s ego. Mix that with Crane’s creepy nature, and his constant psychological analyzing, he usually makes Ed feel like an inferior child. He’s also a bit scared of him and that fear toxin. Two-Face- Also 50/50 with them (I didn’t do that on purpose). Having to interact with two people in one body with two separate motivations can be quite stressful for Ed, but at the same time he enjoys the game. Harvey isn’t as easy for him to manipulate as he can with others, and he’s had a few close calls with Harvey where he pushed things too far. This seems to have fueled his interest in the game more, rather than deter him.

[typinggently]

So what do you think Feral™ Bruce’s relationship with his kids would be like? Somewhere in my bones I feel that he’d have a better relationship with all of them than in canon, but I wonder what you think! Love your blog, btw!!!

Hello Love!!! Thank you so much for your message! 🥰🧡🧡

I took some time to reflect on this and really think it through, since there are two problems: 1) I only really know about the “fandom favourites”, as in Dick (who I know most about since I used to read the 50s comics as a kid), Jason, Tim, Damian. And thus I felt a little unqualified since I know so little about the girls etc. 

2) Rob is 33, which means the Robins would all have to be VERY young. Realistically, I guess, we could assume timeline-wise Jason would’ve died not too long ago? But I’m just going to ignore realism. So, without further ado

Feral Bruce and his Robins

Dick: Bruce adopting Dick makes sense to me, since the grief over his own lost family is so fresh in his mind. He’d lay eyes on this heartbroken child and immediately jump into action. However, due to his age and personality, this wouldn’t have a TRACE of a father/son relationship. Not even close. They’re chaos siblings, with Bruce as the messy rat and Dick as the adoring golden boy. He’s super proud of his older bro and tells others about how cool he is, which everyone 100% buys because it’s Bruce Wayne, of course he’s super cool. They don’t know that Dick’s definition of cool is “he slipped on his own 3 hour old puddle of sprite and did a funny backflip”. Now - as they grow older: I say they’re rather close due to their shared history(&shared grief), and they’re in a way rather similar. Similar fighting styles (both acrobats and very graceful, while Dick is more of a show-off while Bruce is more erratic), similar sense of humour and taste in films etc. I also think they don’t have a dramatic falling out, Dick just fucks off. Bruce is definitely sad about it, but I think he respects Dick’s need for personal growth since he himself isn’t exactly an overbearing cuddly person and most likely shut himself away for a few days at a time in the past. Idk. I think they get each other really well. So yeah, their relationship is def better!!

Jason: Bruce sees a kid trying to hotwire the batmobile and recognises a kindred spirit. Jason pros - he has a lot of that chaotic energy Bruce has. Jason cons - he lacks the grace and self-control. In general, I feel like pre-Joker Jason and Bruce had a rather good relationship as well. Once again not really that father figure thing, though. But Bruce moved up from”chaotic older brother” to “cool older brother” - since he now has a bit of a grip on how to treat teenagers, even though Jason doesn’t take to his rules as well as Dick did (I see many a person interpret Bruce as kind of lenient and clueless, letting the kids run wild and free, and while I agree with the base levels of that, I’m p sure that Bruce in any version is so built on self-control, that he’d impose that on others as well. Strict meal plans, exercises, etc). Jason’s death is a thing I really don’t know how to handle, because Bruce has such a thin skin. Frankly, I don’t know how he’d survive something like that. Grief is terrible and heart-breaking, and I’m not sure how well-equipped Bruce would be. It’s a very, very dark time. Red Hood is another thing. Bruce can barely fight Harvey, so I don’t see how he’d manage to interact with Jason. I honestly think he’d completely pull back from him. I don’t know how they’d heal from that and I’m not sure how Bruce would deal with the core of Jason’s anger. Fighting him is one thing (which he absolutely cannot do), but understanding him and trying to mend what’s broken is another. Very difficult. Very heartbreaking.

Tim: that would just be a mess. There aren’t any real descriptions of Batman, because his contact with civilians/the GPD is minimal and can you trust villains? They say his fighting style is erratic, but can you trust them? Can you believe Riddler, madly gnawing on his hat, when he tells you Batman threw a comically large plush bat at him and then bonked him over the head with a “bat-knocker”?! What I’m saying: Tim figures the “I love the Ritz. I just wish they had soda-fountains. They have the room and people would love it. A fountain of sparkling-cool orange soda in the hall, catching the light and making those nice ambient sounds. That would be glam. What was the question?” - act is an act, but he’s not at all prepared for the actual Feral Bruce Experience™️. He drops himself off on Bruce’s doorstep and holds his whole “I know who you are” speech until Bruce opens the door and the guy is wearing a kilt and a “world’s #1 Bat” shirt, drinking hot beetroot juice and greets him by saying “how the fuck did you get past the sprinklers?” In short - Tim didn’t expect to be the responsible one here. In general, I feel like they’d get along well, still, considering Bruce is so enthusiastic about learning and bettering himself. However, I do feel like his erratic rat-nature would clash with Tim now and then.

Damian: Bruce’s first instinct after hearing he’s a father is to learn how to raise a baby, so he panically throws together a huge pile of Infant Care books from the library, Damian (10+) standing right next to him. That said, he’s very concerned about being a good father figure and raising Damian right. He loves the other boys, of course, but he never really saw himself as their father. This is a new situation for him and he doesn’t feel like he’s up for it. So now he tries to be a good influence, which results in him knocking on their doors at 1:30am all “remember not to drink coffee past midnight!” while holding a pitcher with Earl Grey.

Which brings me to the end note: Bruce is actually a great influence, he’s just not aware of it. He enforces healthy eating habits and a strict exercise routine. He’s got great posture and reminds his boys to sit/walk straight and stretch. He’s very cultured and studious in a very un-pretentious way, setting a great example for the boys. 

But most importantly - he’s so true to himself in such an unapologetic way that everyone else feels free and encouraged to be themselves, too. While his eccentric behaviour could be interpreted as self-centred narcissism, he makes it extremely clear that he cares greatly about each and every one of them. He’s incredibly compassionate and they all know that he loves them dearly.

They all learn a lot from him when he’s not looking, and whenever he notices some little piece of evidence for just how much he’s influencing them, he turns into a mess, eating carrot sticks in the kitchen at 2am with big teary eyes while Alfred makes him tea. (Alfred is the real father figure, of course, but he’s insanely proud of Bruce for handling his responsibilities so well and doing so good with his flock of Robins)

I’m very, very soft. Bruce deserves the world. He loves his family a lot, even though he seems to take them for granted or forget about them at times. And they love him, too, although he’s a bit strange.

(So, to make it short: they DO have a great relationship. Just a tiny bit rocky at times, but I feel like this Bruce is less emotionally repressed and thus a lot of issues would fall flat? They know he cares)

[bigskydreaming]

IGN’s recent Bat-focused article (Batman: What Does Red Hood Need to Do to Get A Good Story?) praises fanfic writers and also is an amazing critique of how stagnant Jason has become under recent DC management and I’m so surprised at how good it is and how well thought out the solutions were

Hmmm. I just looked it up and I mean, I’m not trying to start anything but I both agree and disagree? Like, it makes some points for sure, I mean, its not like its saying things that I haven’t said a thousand times about Dick, like.....these characters need to be allowed access to a full range of emotions, both good and bad, in order to be fully fleshed out, so I mean yes on that premise alone I absolutely agree this is as true for Jason as it is for Dick or anyone else.

Tbh my only real criticism of the piece is it thinks Jason exists in a particular predicament the other characters aren’t in as well. And that I just don’t agree with, like they kinda lost me a bit with their first paragraph:

His complexities and moral ambiguity make him a compelling and distinct character among his more strait-laced Robin-brothers. Sadly, the character has seen little growth since his rage-filled reintroduction into comics. The ‘former Robin becomes a villain’ idea was enough for DC to coast on for a while but since rejoining the heroes, Red Hood has done little else.

First off, this may just be me being pedantic but I’m ALWAYS going to go fetch a grain of salt before continuing reading anything that pits Jason against his brothers in a war of his moral ambiguity against their strait-lacedness. Because to me, that’s just a fundamentally shallow view of the Batfam that caters to the idea that they each must have their own distinct niche in order to be fully viable individual characters, when a) no, and b) they don’t fit neatly into the niches people keep trying to slot them into and it never ends well for anybody. 

Like Jason is morally ambiguous in a lot of ways too, yes, but umm, even if we assume that the writer is only speaking of Dick, Tim and Damian, we’re talking a guy who beat the Joker to death with his bare hands and has ten assassins and mercenaries on his speed dial and who co-led the Outsiders, a guy who was deeply immersed in weighing the pros and cons of getting revenge for his father by getting Captain Boomerang killed and is forever being DMed by Ra’s because he’s convinced he can get Tim to say He Has Some Points Actually, and the kid who was an assassin with a body count by age ten and who has struggled constantly ever since his debut to define his OWN personal view of morality that is not wholly predicated on what he was taught by any single individual.

And this is a big part of where I part ways with the article, because I think it falls into the same trap that a lot of people do by believing fanfic is inherently better by doing the same thing from just a different angle. Fanfic CAN be better than the canon, I absolutely believe that, I believe it is at times, but to do so, it has to like, BE BETTER. It has to do things differently, and not just paint a slightly different veneer over the same things. Like, pedantic though it might be, I outlined the above issue because its a mode of thinking the canon absolutely falls into again and again, and just like the writer of that article themselves, like....I think fandom as a whole is no different? 

Like, yes there are great stories about Jason out there, some writers have done great and interesting things with him, but that doesn’t mean there’s not a huge trend in fandom of doing the exact same thing I see here.....which is honestly a huge part of the exact same problem the article is decrying canon for......LIMITING Jason (and all the Batfam) by reducing them and their stories to finite niches as a way of spotlighting them as different from their siblings.....except they’re not that different! And that’s okay! They don’t have to be! Families can have lots in common, families DO have lots in common due to like.....shared variables during their formative years. 

I mean Jason was heavily influenced by environmental factors in how and where he grew up before he ever met Batman, but like the article goes into itself, he was no less influenced by Bruce himself as his father figure.....which is something he absolutely has in common with his siblings, thus its not hard at all to see how his siblings could have similar complexities and moral struggles that stem from trying to reconcile Bruce’s influence with the many other things and people that have influenced their childhoods.

And similarly, while the article is dead-on about Jason’s stagnancy....this is something that applies in equal measure to the rest of his family, because they’re all facing the same issues in terms of how DC views and utilizes them, and fandom as much as it likes to condemn DC for doing just that....frequently does the same thing. Like, Jason’s stuck in canon, absolutely......but Dick keeps being popped out into his own microcosm to experience a couple years of stories that essentially turn him into completely different characters isolated from every communal part of his character’s history, and then ERASE everything that’s happened at the end of each of these stories and reset him to square one.....and that’s just a different kind of stagnancy that again, still never allows for actual character progression or development. Tim has LITERALLY been regressed back to Robin, like a hard reset that’s its own kind of stagnancy and Damian has had years of character development upended just to kick him back to where he started, effectively strip away all the connections he’s developed at least in any meaningful way, etc.....and the same holds true for Babs and Cass and Steph and even Bruce himself IMO, in a lot of ways.

Its absolutely a problem, but its a problem that extends far beyond just Jason even if he is a great example of it. And its also a problem that extends into fic itself, and that’s why I don’t agree with a lot of the conclusions that article draws beyond just the fundamental “these characters need to be allowed access to a full range of emotions.”

Yes. That. That right there, THAT I think is crucial, but I think that writer needed to widen the scope a little to take in the full impact of what that actually MEANS for the characters....so as to not accidentally repeat the same problem they’re being critical of by essentially arguing for a full range of emotions for Jason....while still defining or viewing Jason through a finite lens of “the more morally ambiguous Bat character, at least as compared to his brothers.”

Because its that last part that’s so detrimental, because it seems like such a little thing at first, until you realize that essentially its just putting a ceiling, a cap on how far those full ranges of emotions can be expressed. Like the problem with Dick Grayson in canon and fanon is NOT that he can’t be written with a full range of emotions.....its that his character absolutely can encompass a wide range of opinions and viewpoints and emotional stances from “I don’t believe in killing as a first option” to “I absolutely can, will, and have beaten a damn clown to death for joking about murdering my brother”.....and he can still walk away as Dick Grayson after expressing both those things, because his character is big enough to include them both. HE’S not limited as a character, its canon writers and fandom writers that both heap artificial limitations of their OWN on him, say that his character is so defined in such a specific way that there’s no way for the latter expression of his character to actually be IN character.....and the fatal flaw here is fully fleshed out characters are never just one thing. They don’t fit in niches anymore than people do, and notice the problems we all run into when we try and pigeon hole people as being just one thing, like humans can’t be contradictory or act against their own self-interest or be hypocritical or evolve or even regress past prior viewpoints....basically, any time you try and sum up a human being in one line, no matter how accurate that description is, there’s still SOME things that are going to be left out of that picture. 

Now, these things don’t always have to matter that much, like if I look at a serial killer and say that’s a serial killer, like, I might be leaving out of the picture that once he helped an old lady across the street and didn’t kill her and he doesn’t even know why, and I for one, simply do not care that I leave that out of the picture. Its irrelevant to the big picture for me. I can acknowledge that it adds a smidgen of nuance to that particular picture and then go yeah but also I don’t care, nuance denied.

But in terms of fictional characters, these things that get left in the discard pile when we try and sum up characters as just one thing, like, they can be hugely significant, because characters unlike real people, are simply WHAT WE MAKE OF THEM. That stuff that’s been left out of the big picture look at that character because its stuff most people to DEFINE what that character looks like have deemed irrelevant....its still there, and still perfectly relevant for anyone who wants to pick that stuff up and make something of it, use it to change the overall picture or even just point to ways and places that picture can absolutely encompass and include these other elements and STILL fundamentally be that same picture, that same character.

And this isn’t to say that characters can never be written out of character, its to say that usually IMO what ACTUALLY makes the difference between something being out of character and something just being an unexpected but still valid character choice is just.....how these things are executed. The latter is when writers make the effort to JUSTIFY their character choice, to sell audiences on why and how this is absolutely something this character would do, to take them on a journey of what led the character to making this choice and let them see how those steps actually line up, that’s an actual journey that character might take. The former is when writers just don’t bother and are just like, well here’s a thing that character did, and you know it was in character because well that’s the character and that’s what I wrote them doing lol, what more do you want. No. Yawn. Next.

But the trick is if you’re going to try and make a character a SPECTRUM of emotions and choices rather than just a same datapoint recurring over and over again endlessly, a literal sticking point that never advances, never progresses, never changes......you have to actually give that character free range to utilize that spectrum of emotions and choices.....not just confine them to accessing all those possibilities but ONLY within a narrowly defined niche that is its own kind of limitation.

A character can START from a logline, absolutely. Can BEGIN in a narrative niche as a way to INTRODUCE them as seemingly different from their surroundings or their peers when they do not yet have the backstory, the evidence of past stories and character choices readers can use to interpret their actions or guess their choices.....but narrative niches, IMO, are meant to have a shelf life, an expiration date. They’re a seed for characters to grow FROM, to grow PAST, not return to over and over again.....because that’s when a niche just becomes another house that stagnancy built.

Anyway, thanks for the thoughts and the article mention.....it was an interesting exploration of thoughts for me even if I didn’t ultimately agree with a lot of what was already said....still a worthwhile read though I think and I mean hey, its cool if you still agree with it more even if I don’t, lol. This is just my take.

[bigfan-fanfic]

No Laughing Matter (Batdad!Reader Headcanons)

Requested by @yesthetrashbin for Batdad and Batfam travel to an alternate universe where Batdad is the Joker.

You aren’t expecting your family to attack you.

To be fair, it isn’t exactly your family, and they don’t exactly know who you are.

You, Bruce, and your sons have traveled to an alternate universe, landing in that place’s Batcave.

Alt-Jason sees you and cries out before drawing his weapons. “It’s him!”

You’re shocked at his tone of fear, and you’re even more shocked when the rest of the Alt-Batboys lunge at you, necessitating your defense by your sons.

Alt-Dick is nowhere to be found, and neither is Alfred

Alt-Bruce rushes in and sees himself with you, and seems to figure it out.

“Stop!” he roars.

Everyone freezes.

He gives you a strange look, advancing slowly. Your Bruce moves forward protectively, but you stop him.

Alt-Bruce grabs your hands and begins to cry.

What????

It turns out that in this universe, things were much the same until Jason died.

Alt-you went completely crazy. Like, completely.

The last memory Alt-Bruce has of Before was you hugging him tightly, grabbing a crowbar, and walking out of the front door of Wayne Manor.

Alt-Dick found Alfred that same day, killed by you. Apparently he had tried to stop you.

The things you did to the Joker that day were so horrendous that none of the Alt-Batfam can bear to speak of it.

But Alt-Bruce went to stop you, and in the struggle, accidentally pushed you into a vat of chemicals.

And, in some sick twist of fate, you went through the same transformation as the man who killed your son.

You had personally helped so many in Gotham, and at your word, everyone who felt they personally owed you joined the Joker Gang

Now you are a world-wide threat.

Alt-Dick was traumatized by your transformation, and when you kidnapped him, he was prime for reprogramming

Now, at the Joker’s side is his sidekick, Prank.

Alt-Bruce shows you all the most recent footage of Joker II’s ongoing attack on Gotham

And it’s you, your hair dyed a lurid green, your skin bleached unnaturally white, your eyes wide and insane. Your mouth stretched in a horrible smile...

You can barely stand to hear your own voice threatening Gotham.

The Joker of your universe always spoke to Bruce like an old lover, but this one took it to a new level.

You can tell that he wants his family back, and this Joker will only stop when each and every one of the Alt-Batfam is at his side, insane.

When Alt-Jason returned to life, he was shocked to see what you had become, and he immediately joined Bruce and Tim to stop you and Dick, and hopefully return you to normal.

Tim became Robin by breaking into the Manor after Bruce was captured by you and Prank. He narrowly saved Bruce from being lowered into another vat of chemicals.

Bruce doesn’t even consider remarrying or starting a new relationship. As far as he is concerned, he will die trying to restore you to his side.

Damian is darker and more violent, never having had your influence. The Joker hates him because he is Talia’s son.

You and your family decide to help them bring down the Joker before returning home.

It’s hard to get into the Joker’s brain, but you recognize a pattern almost immediately. Every place the Joker has committed some atrocity is a place you have fond memories of with Bruce. The Joker is trying to subliminally force Alt-Bruce into falling in love with him again.

Alt-Bruce kicks himself. It seems obvious now, but he was trying to block out all thoughts of you two before you became the Joker.

So you choose a place the Joker hasn’t gone to, yet. You volunteer to act as bait, to the chagrin of your Bruce. But then you give your plan, which both sets of Batfams are impressed by.

You are at the Gotham City Fair, where everyone runs away from you in fear.

The Joker shows up almost immediately. He laughs crazily.

“Oh, really? Is this the best you can come up with, Bats? A hologram of me?”

“You wish.” You say. “I’m you. Or really, what you could have been. I still have my family. Look.”

Bruce - your Bruce - and your sons land in a circle around you. You look right at the Joker-you as they give you a group hug. 

Then the alt-Batfam lands. Alt-Bruce lands between you and, well, you.

Because the Joker looks ready to try and kill you to take your place

Prank falls to his knees. You look directly at him

“You don’t need to do this, son. I’ll love you no matter what.”

He starts to cry. Joker turns to look at him, shocked

And Alt-Bruce strikes, cuffing Joker.

“I’m going to help you, Y/N.” he whispers. “You’re going to be okay.

Joker looks at him, Y/N shining through for the first time in years. “Will we be a family, Bruce? Like they are?”

“I swear we will.”

Later, before you leave back for your own world, alt-Bruce comes up to you all.

“I never thought it would be over. Thank you.”

He hugs Bruce. And you hear him whisper

“Never let him go. Not for a moment.”

Bruce looks at you. “I don’t plan to.”

At home, Alfred asks where you have all been.

You start laughing hysterically, because you have been through the wringer here.

Everyone looks at you, startled, and you wave them down.

Slowly, they all start to laugh as well

Alfred just shakes his head. Sometimes, this family...