#thinking about that potential etymology of Achilles: 'grief of the people'

[caffernnn]

idk if you already did this and i just forget, but makoharu, who is orpheus and who is eurydice? you've made hadestown references before in the duration of our greek myth mh au exchanges but i don't recall if you've made a real mh orpheus-eurydice talk before.

also the "makoto/kiyofumi = patroclus/cleopatra" parallel also works in haru/azuma = achilles/meleager. achilles' name is derived from the greek word for pain, achos, and haru's full name means "seven currents away" literally (nanase- seven currents; haruka- distant, remote, away) or "great isolation". meanwhile their counterparts, once glorious people who have fallen out of glory, azuma's name ryuji means "imperial ruler", and meleager means "he who was part of the hunt" (his fame comes from his participation in the calydonian boar hunt).

i think there's something about how haru and achilles are both destined for a life of glory, but also for a life of grief and pain and suffering (as their name suggests) at the same time, and then there's azuma and the king who were both destined for glory, but ended in grief and pain and suffering not bc of destiny, but bc of their choices (idk i'm kinda reaching here)

this time the connection is haru/achilles = azuma/meleager (since in the first place achilles and meleager have different etymologies that happen to somehow correspond with haru's and azuma's, respectively. whereas patroclus and cleopatra share the same etymologies, and makoto and kiyofumi also have some similarities in the meanings of their names, that makes it makoto/kiyofumi = patroclus/cleopatra). either way, the parallels still work bc all four names make a connection.

i just realized how both canon and mook haru have some similarities w/ tsoa achilles in the way that both are willing to let other people in peril if it means the safety of their beloved. haru was mad at rei bc if it hadn't for him makoto wouldn't have been in danger like that. no implication that makoto should have left rei to drown to death, but if we consider the mook where haru directly attempted to prevent makoto from saving a potentially trapped victim (a child at that!) just so he wouldn't return to the danger of a burning, crumbling building, we realize that haru is not above letting others die just to ensure makoto is safe, that he survives.

achilles in tsoa (and also prob in the illiad if i still remember correctly) would not care if the greeks were being slaughtered by the trojans when patroclus begged to don his armor in hopes of scaring the enemies away and save the greeks from annihilation. he held on as much as he could to refuse patroclus, bc not only is it dangerous for him, he wouldn't want him to risk his life for people he barely cares about at this point (not to mention he was also mad at the whole army during this point). when patroclus was killed agamemnon "tried" (bc srsly he wasn't even trying) to console achilles, he said that he wished patroclus should have let them all die.

self-sacrificing people who would give up their lives to save someone else and selfish people in love who would sacrificd others for their beloved's life. makoharu are once again patrochilles reincarnated. the evidence just keeps growing and growing.

yes this is two topics in one ask. yes i'm milking the shit out of the patrochilles au. also feel free to separate the answers in this. as usual i'm thinking too much again and it's my mission to bother you about this

Love your long asks 💚💙 OKAY SO first order of business: I go back and forth when it comes to makoharu in an orpheus/eurydice situation. My first instinct is thinking about Makoto as Orpheus, full of a hope that can inspire life and new beginnings, and Haru as Eurydice, who can’t help but believe in his song, his heart (falling in spite of himself, etc etc). I can see them falling fast, seamlessly in a way that neither of them could’ve expected or known that they wanted. Love built from a life lived and a life imagined meeting in the middle and daring to dream of something new, a line to hold onto. I can see Makoto, invested in hope not to a point of naïveté, but of a different shade of demand, of desperation — focused on the weight of being a light bearer for so long he doesn’t notice Haru’s not still behind/beside him until it’s too late. (Do you see it? The parallels to the mook storyline?? Makoto getting lost to the idea of being the hero and saving people no matter the cost to him, not realizing that having your soul intertwined with someone else like that means you’re never only risking yourself??? Hello????)

Similarly though, I can see Haru as Orpheus, taking the lost potential of his FS/FS2 journey (if KA won’t follow through with the threads then I will) and trying to do the impossible: hold hope of success and treasure his bonds, resurrecting them through that sheer power of manifesting spring and new beginnings. I can see him finishing his song, a song older than him, and see himself in Hades’s (maybe Ssk or Ryuuji, if we want another player in there) power-drunk grief (Epic III I love you always). I can see him trudging forward, becoming a voice for people, Makoto right behind, trudging forward… and I can see the doubt from both of them close in. Haru wondering why anyone would follow him, look up to him, when the expectation has always felt a little too ill-fitting, too heavy on his shoulders. Makoto seeing his back, trusting Haru’s ability to move forward and his own will to, but not his own ability to close the distance between when it gets too wide, when the hand he depends upon can’t afford to turn around, when they can’t lean on that strength or support that comes from meeting eyes.

I can see the simultaneous relief and heartbreak that comes when they do meet eyes, and everything comes to a head. When Haru’s will to push forever (and give up something to reach the top) breaks, and he turns like he always has (always would, always will as long as he still can) to see Makoto right there, unwavering and supportive, despite being so sad that it had to be here and now that they see each other, not before. It’s the hospital scene we kinda had, but better; it’s a Makoto dream of him once again trying to reach Haru, but this time he looks back, this time he’s in reach, but touching him makes him disappear. It’s a tragedy and a trainwreck and an ending, but not fully - the ending makes it a story, and that means it can now be told again, they get to live again (even if the outcome will stay the same, it’s another chance, another few minutes, another small bit of ephemeral joy). In the context of makoharu, I think they move in waves, both full of passions that draw them toward each other and out to the world. There’s a cyclical push-pull to them, a story told again and again as they grow, losing themselves to their devotions to the world and then alighting anew when the other holds up a mirror, reminds them of who they are. Caring so much will always give them a propensity for tragedy, but that intensity is fun to play around with in their dynamic. For all the stories we tell where they’re in-tune, calm, pedestrian, ordinary to the point of fading into everyone else quietly, there’s that powder keg of Feelings™️ riiiight under the surface that, given the right circumstances, lends itself to epic feats and tragedy.

MOVING FORWARD: looove seeing the comparisons you’ve made and how that shows the lengths Haru is willing to go to protect his heart (which is held up by Makoto, rests in his hands). I want to add a bit to this though, especially in reference to the mook. Haru’s mind is chiefly on Makoto, his concern is about fighting to get him out, but he doesn’t rush in until after he sees/hears that mother and her kid reuniting. That’s a delicate distinction that I think is important when it comes to how Haru tries to protect Makoto: as much as it’d be easier to pull him out as soon as there’s any sign of danger, he lets Makoto try. Makoto is of the world, of the people, hellbent on serving them (whether it’s being a firefighter in a burning building or a captain at a training camp from hell), and he gets hurt at the nagging thought that he’s not enough because of his setbacks or fears. Haru doesn’t like Makoto being near the ocean during the whole trip, but he still lets Makoto push them forward through it until he can’t anymore. He watches Makoto put himself into potentially scary and dangerous situations with a determination to have his back through it all, but that first presents itself in the form of sitting and waiting.

With that said, what you’re pointing out in Haru can also be true — when it finally comes to that moment where Haru jumps in, saving Makoto because not saving him isn’t an option, everything is on the table. He’ll risk any beautiful thing to save Makoto because his influence is part of what allowed him to think of the world as beautiful in the first place. So, if he isn’t enough, if sacrificing himself isn’t enough? If there were lasting effects from both situations (like Makoto’s injuries lasting longer than the immediate moment of peril), perhaps even loss?? Of course he’d be pissed, he’d be warped, wielding himself into a weapon to protect his grief and ire in a way he couldn’t initially protect Makoto and himself. Delicious parallels and angst potential there, always.