#turkish khaganate

[itstokkii]

Broke: Turkey is 4000 years old and existed in the form of the Turkic Khaganate

Woke: Turkey is, at oldest, the Ottoman Empire because that was when the identity of the Turkish nation, culture, and people became set in stone

Bespoke: Turkey was a tiny pipsqueak running around for a bit as one of the many Turkic tribes that migrated west before eventually inheriting the power of Seljuk and becoming the Ottoman Empire, so he is old, but he doesn't stretch as far back as the Turkic Khaganate since that's the origin of all Turkic nations and making Turkey the single sole representative of the Khaganate ignores the other Turkic identities and groups that developed from the Khaganate as well. The Turkic Khaganate also does not completely represent the ethnic makeup of Turkish people nowadays, as well as the ethnic makeup of other groups like Tatars and Kazakhs due to interactions with Persia, Mongols, and other Europeans. The reason why Turkey's perceived to be old is most likely his "old man fit" which is really just how any Turkish dude in Turkey dresses

[respondedinkind]

~ Character Info Sheet (MAIN VERSE)

name: Khan Noonien Singh

name meaning: Khan, which is more popular as a surname, is a Turkish boy's name meaning "prince". Khan is a shorter form of Khagan, and was originally a historic title given to military chiefs and rulers. Noonien is of Chinese origin and means "gifted one", though it's unclear whether this is accurate or not. Singh is derived from the Sanskrit word सिंह (IAST: siṃha) meaning "lion", and is used in the sense "hero" or "eminent person".

alias/es: John Harrison, created and given to him by Admiral Marcus as a smokescreen to hide his true identity.

ethnicity: Confidential information

one picture you like best of your chara:

three h/cs you've never told anyone:

During his time under Marcus' command, Khan was not only forced to create powerful weapons and design an entire warship fitting to Marcus' demands, but he was also forced to go through mental as well as physical abuse. Marcus used his crew to control him, threatened Khan to take their lives if he were to disobey; Two of his people died this way, leaving Khan devastated and broken.

Khan is, in fact, not human - this information is confidental, however, and the few papers existing from the time he was risen are locked up somewhere in the archives. Marcus knows, however, with him being of high rank - which is precisely why he wanted to keep and use Khan for his purposes.

During his time as a ruler in between 1992 and 1996, Khan maintained a close relationship to a selected few of his following (mostly males, with a few rare exceptions) - the mentioned relationship included connections of sexual kind, but didn't really turn into romantic love-interests. They all enjoyed each other's company together, as a group, on more than just one occasion.

three things your character likes doing in their free time:

Reading. He enjoys a lot of different genres, prefers the feel of real paper between his fingers, but will also use whatever electronic device is offered to him to entertain himself.

Stargazing. It reminds him of his childhood, back when he'd been risen in the twentieth century; The stars have always fascinated him, perhaps it has to do with his origins.

Cooking. He rarely gets the chance to do so, but Khan enjoys the logical but also creative approach of creating dishes - he's a big fan of the asian as well as indian cuisine.

eight people your character likes / loves: His crew, obviously. Seventy-two people, still within their cryotubes; He would do anything for them, as he knows they would do anything for him in return. He considers them his family, his friends, people he holds most dear.

Besides them, he doesn't keep any close connections at the current time. While residing under Marcus' command, he didn't really care about anyone else, only had the occasional chat with others working at Section 31, but nothing of significant nature.

The rest is entirely thread-dependent; Khan is about to connect to @darehearts, he also feels very close to @sxbaist (in every single Verse) and, besides that, is starting to connect tentatively to a few other muses. (Also very verse-dependent; In his MCU verses he's getting relatively close to @bloodstainedstar and is already deeply in love with @mehrere-musen - in one alien verse he is friends with @noblehcart and in another alien verse he is also deeply in love with @ssolessurvivor)

two things your character regrets:

Having put his people into the torpedoes he'd designed. Back when he'd done it, there hadn't been any other way available for him to try and smuggle them into safety - yet, with how the events unfolded in the end, part of him regrets that he's executed his own plan and, sadly, got discovered in the process, forcing him to leave them behind while escaping alone.

Having put himself as well as his crew into cryotubes to begin with. Back when all of them had been forced into exile, he'd planned for them to sleep a few years while their ship drifted through space, far away from earth, so as to allow them all to resume their lives at another point. That his own cryotube malfunctioned, didn't wake him up within the estimated timespan, he obviously didn't account for; Ten of his friends lost their lives because of that, and, in the end, Marcus found them over two hundred years after the Eugenic Wars had happened, resulting in the whole desaster that followed.

Phobias fears your character has:

The fear of losing someone he loves, either plantonic or romantic. Because of what he's gone through while being held hostage by Marcus, made to witness the death of two of his people caused by the Admiral's hands, Khan ever since experiences the overwhelming fear of being unable to keep someone safe and, therefore, lose them forever. Whoever gets close to him, he intents to protect, and he might become a bit overly protective because of his mentioned fear.

A mild 'fear' of doctors / scientists. It manifests less in actual fear but more in varying stages of discomfort; Because of what he went through as a child as well as under Marcus' command, he's not too fond of being handled by either of them.

tagged by: no one tagging: @bloodstainedstar because I don't think you did this yet. :)

[nevzatboyraz44]

BİLGE KAĞAN YASASI:

EN ESKİ TÜRK ANAYASASI "TÖRE"

1. Tengri (yaratan) Tektir.

2. Her kim ki, Tengri'den kut almak dilerse, başkasına yakarmasın.

3. Bir İl(Ülke), bir Kağan, bir Tengri..

4. Bir kına iki kılıç girmez. Bir hatun iki er alamaz ve bir budunda iki töre olmaz. Töre tektir. Töre kesin ve keskindir. Kim ki, töreye uya kutlanır. Kim ki, töreye kıya katlanır..

5. Kimse töreden üstün değildir. Dirlik ve birlik için töre budur.

6. Bir çoban sürüsünden, bir er ailesinden, bir Kağan budunundan sorulur.

7. Her er eşine, atına, pusatına sahip çıkacak.

8. Ana-babaya ve ataya tazim(saygı) duyulacak.

9. Hısmına sarılacak, komşusunu gözetecek.

10. Er kişi yalan söylemeyecek.

11. Mal çalan, mülk çalan misliyle ödeyecek. Hesabı ya malıyla ya canıyla sorulacak.

12. Kim ki, bir ırza musallat olursa, canından olacak.

13. Her kim olursa olsun haksız, aldatıcı iş tutarsa hesabı hemen sorulacak.

14. Cenkten beri duran ya da kaçan tamuya(cehennem) uçacak.

15. Aman dileyene kılıç üşürülmeyecek, sığınana arka dönülmeyecek.

16. Baş kaldıranın başı alınacak, hak isteyenin hakkı verilecek.

17. Kimse kimseye üstünlük taslamayacak. Ne ak etin karadan, ne karanın kızıldan, ne kızılın sarıdan farkı olmayacak.

18. Kin ve gururdan uzak olunacak.

19. Mazluma merhamet, zalime azap duyulacak.

20. Zayıfa, yaralıya, çocuğa ve kadına el kaldırılmayacak.

21. Kızı isteyen Kağan da olsa, bey de olsa, kız istediğine verilecek.

22. Gereksiz yere ağaç kesmeyeceksin, suyu kirletmeyeceksin.

23. Bilmeyip de bildim demeyeceksin, bilene danışacaksın.

24. Bugünün işini yarına bırakmayacaksın.

25. Kusur görmeyecek, kusur aramayacaksın.

26. Güçlüyken affet, zayıfken sabret.

27. Yazgına asi olma.

28. Yaptığın iyiliği unut, yapılan iyiliği unutma.

29. Herkes adaletle iş görecek.

30. Her ne edersen et, yargılanacağını her daim akılda tut.

31. Milletine yaban kalma. İpeğin iyisine, sözün güzeline kanma, onlara boyanma.

32. Kağan o dur ki, adaleti üstün tutsun, töreyi yaşatsın. Töre yok olursa, İl yok olur. İl olmazsa, budun kul olur.

33. Ey Türk Oğuz beyleri, ey milletim işitin!

"Üstte mavi gök çökmedikçe, altta yağız yer delinmedikçe senin İlini ve töreni kim bozabilir?"

(#BilgeKağanYazıtı - 730

#OrhunIrmağı yakınları, #Ötügen-#Moğolistan)

........

BİLGE KAĞAN LAW:

THE OLDEST TURKISH CONSTITUTION "CUSTOM"

1. Tengri (the Creator) is One.

2. Whoever wants to get a box from Tengri should not pray to anyone else.

3. One Province (Country), one Khagan, one Tengri..

4. Two swords cannot fit into one henna. A woman cannot have two privates, and one leg cannot have two customs. Custom is one. Custom is strict and sharp. Whoever is celebrated according to tradition. Whoever puts up with customs..

5. No one is superior to customs. This is the custom for peace and unity.

6. It is asked about a shepherd's herd, a soldier's family, a Khagan tribe.

7. Every man will take care of his wife, horse and ambush.

8. Respect will be felt for parents and ancestors.

9. He will hold close to his relatives and watch over his neighbor.

10. A private person will not lie.

11. He who steals goods will pay the same amount as the one who stole property. He will be held accountable with either his property or his life.

12. Whoever afflicts a transgressor will lose his life.

13. Anyone who does unfair or deceptive work will be held accountable immediately.

14. Tamuya (hell), which has been standing or running away since the war, will fly away.

15. The sword will not be drawn against those who ask for mercy, and the one who takes refuge will not be turned away.

16. Those who rebel will be decapitated, and those who demand justice will be given their rights.

17. No one will be superior to anyone else. There will be no difference between white flesh and black, black flesh from red, red flesh from yellow.

18. One will stay away from grudges and pride. 19. There will be mercy for the oppressed and torment for the oppressor.

20. No hand will be raised against the weak, the wounded, children and women.

21. The girl will be given to whomever she wants, whether it is a Khagan or a bey.

22. You shall not cut down trees unnecessarily or pollute water.

23. You shouldn't say you know even though you don't know, you should consult the one who knows.

24. You will not leave today's work for tomorrow.

25. You will not see or look for flaws.

26. Forgive when you are strong, be patient when you are weak.

27. Don't rebel against your destiny.

28. Forget the good you have done, do not forget the good that has been done.

29. Everyone will deal with justice.

30. Whatever you do, always keep in mind that you will be judged.

31. Do not remain a stranger to your nation. Don't be fooled by the best of silk and beautiful words, don't be drawn to them.

32. The kagan is the one who prioritizes justice and keeps tradition alive. If the custom disappears, the Province will disappear. If there is no province, people will become slaves.

33. O Turkish Oghuz lords, O my nation, hear! "Unless the blue sky above collapses and the rainy ground below is pierced, who can disrupt your Province and

ceremony?" (#BilgeKağanInscription - 730 #Near Orhun River, #Ötügen-#Mongolia)

[vahvah]

It's actually funny that people think of Turkey as some kind of ancient nation, when in fact it is one of the youngest in the Middle East.

Let me explain. National concepts are very fluid, and when we talk about personifications, we can never say exactly when one begins and another ends. Language, culture, statehood, form of government, ethnic composition, racial composition, religion - there are many factors that determine a nation. And, if we are talking about personifications, then each case must be examined separately.

The Republic of Turkey is the direct heir of the Ottoman Empire (just as the USSR is the heir of the Russian Empire), and the Ottoman Empire is more or less the direct heir of the Seljuk Empire, in particular its fragment into Anatolia, known as the Iconian/Rum Sultanate. Further continuity of the Seljuk tribe is based on the turkic tribes of Central Asia in the early Middle Ages.

Taking the personifications of Turkey, can we identify it with the Ottoman Empire? Something like that, although this identity is not absolute - because the language, for example, has undergone a colossal change, just like national identity, starting at least from the era of Ataturk. In fact, there are as many reasons to separate them as there are to separate modern Greece and the Byzantine Empire.

But is it acceptable to equate the Ottoman Empire with the Seljuk Empire? Absolutely not. I will not start talking about the fact that the turkish culture was born in Anatolia from a mixture, and did not simply migrate from Central Asia, although this is true. I'll just say: other oguz peoples exist. Azerbaijan originates from the Seljuk Empire, although it also developed from a mixture of local (caucasian), iranian, arabic and turkic elements. Turkmenistan exists. They must be older than Turkey/Ottoman Empire. I would compare this situation with the eastern slavs - you can’t reduce ancient Rus' only to Russia or Ukraine, right?

As for the absolutely ridiculous attempt to extend the life of the personification of Turkey up to the Turkic Khaganate… Bros, other turkic peoples exist. And many of them are truly descendants of the ancient turkic tribes. You might as well call Romania a direct continuation of the Roman Empire.

If suddenly citizens of Turkey are reading me: I am not taking away your ancient history, be calm, but face the truth - the short, yellow-skinned siberian mongoloids who profess shamanism are clearly not your direct biological ancestors… for the most part. Absolutely bigger. By heaven, I saw with my own eyes what the turks look like.

As we found out, the personification of Turkey cannot appear before the 11th/12th centuries AD. And the rest… well, I don't even know. The age of the countries of the arabic world should be based on at least the islamic conquest, but in reality, in Syria and Iraq, arabic states appeared in antiquity. The immediate neighbors of Turkey, Georgia and Armenia, literally frozen in time mastodons of the Achaemenid era. Bulgaria is the oldest slavic country, dating back to the early Middle Ages. In fact, all the Balkan countries go back to the same time period - the time of the settlement of the slavs in these lands, with the exception of the albanians, romanians and greeks (who represent pre-slavic, i.e., even more ancient population).

I think you understand where I'm going with this, right? So… it's funny, yeah.

[thewitcheslibrary]

Kök Tengri - Mythology and information

In Old Turkic, Tengri signifies God or Sky. Tengri, also known as Gök God or Kök Tengri, is the ultimate spirit of the sky, according to Tengricism. The Orkhon Inscriptions, where Tengri is the earliest deciphered term, give early proof of the significance of this notion.

Tengri, the great sky god, is the most revered Turkish divinity. While the majority of Turkish history has been polytheistic, Tengriism has existed as a monotheistic religion for millennia. Tengri, also known as Kök Tengri or Gok Tengri, is the first primordial deity and creator god. We don't know what he looks like, but he's all-powerful and fair. Later beliefs of the deity, no likely inspired by more contemporary philosophies, saw him as the force of good in opposition to Erlik's evil.

History-

Tengri was the Göktürks' national god, also known as the "god of Turks" (Türük Tängrisi). Tengri's mandate established the Göktürk khans' authority. These monarchs were widely considered as Tengri's sons, representing him on Earth. Tengrikut, kutluġ, and kutalmysh were titles given to monarchs who were believed to have gained kut, a spiritual energy provided by Tengri.

Prior to foreign intrusions, the Turkic idea of tengri was viewed as the heaven or the will that controlled the heavens, most likely a force. This resulted in the notion of a personal being. Initially, when Turkic people took over other religions, the term tengri became the name of a (personal) deity or "higher being"

Engri was the primary deity worshipped by the ruling elite of Central Asian steppe peoples from the sixth to ninth centuries (Turkic peoples, Mongols, and Hungarians). It lost significance when the Uighuric kagans declared Manichaeism the state religion in the eighth century. The Huns and early Bulgars spread Tengri religion over Eastern Europe.

Engri is thought to be the supreme god who created everything. In addition to the heavenly deity, they had smaller divinities (Alps) who served Tengri's objectives. Gök Tanrı was the father of the sun (Koyash) and moon (Ay Tanrı), also known as Umay, Erlik, and occasionally Ülgen.

Mythology-

Tengri was the most important deity in the Turkic pantheon, in charge of the celestial realm. Tengri is said to be related to the Indo-European sky deity *Dyeus, and the organisation of the reconstructed Proto-Indo-European religion is closer to that of the early Turks than to the religion of any Near Eastern or Mediterranean nation. In Christian Turkish, Tengri refers to Jesus' father, who is known as "Tengri Oghli" (Son of God) and "Mshikha Tengri" (Messiah God). Tengri is likened to both Allah and Khuda. Apart from foreign religious influences, as far as is known today, the original Turkish understanding of Tengri was "heaven" or a spirit governing in heaven. This spirit was most likely conceived as a power, similar to "mana" in contemporary ethnology.

The most important current evidence of Tengri worship is contained in the Old Turkic Orkhon inscriptions from the early eighth century. These inscriptions, written in the so-called Orkhon script, provide information about the Turks' legendary beginnings. The inscription dedicated to Kul Tigin includes the following paragraphs (in the translation supplied by the Language Committee of the Ministry of Culture and Information of the Republic of Kazakhstan): "When the blue sky [Tengri] above and the brown earth below were created, between them a human being was created." My forefathers, Bumin Kagan and Istemi Kagan, ruled over humanity. They controlled the people according to Turkish rules, led them, and prevailed" (face 1, line 1); "Tengri causes death. The Old Turkic phrase "Öd Teŋri yasar kisi oγlu qop ölgeli törürmis" (face 2, line 9) and "You passed away (lit.: 'went flying') until Tengri gives you life again" (face 2, line 14) refer to the creation of humans with the intention of death. The ancient Turkic people believed that Khagans ruled by Tengri's will, as stated in the Orkhon inscriptions: "I, Tengri-like and Tengri-born Turk Bilge Kaghan, succeeded to the throne at this time" (Old Turkic: Teŋiriteg Teŋiride bolmuš Türük Bilge Qaγan bü ödüke olurtum).

Tengri, according to one Turkic story, is a clean, white goose who always hovers over an unending stretch of water, representing time. Ak Ana ("White Mother") screams out to him "Create" beneath the ocean. To alleviate his loneliness, Tengri produces Er Kishi, who is not as pure or white as Tengri, and together they build the universe. Er Kishi transforms into a demonic figure who attempts to deceive and entice others into its darkness. Tengri adopts the name Tengri Ülgen and withdraws into Heaven, where he attempts to guide humans through sacred animals he sends among them. The Ak Tengris inhabit the fifth level of Heaven. Shaman priests who want to achieve Tengri Ülgen never get beyond this stage, where they communicate their aspirations to the divine guides. Returns to Earth or to the human level occur on a goose-shaped vehicle.

What he's associated with/his symbols-

 the sun, the moon, the top of yurts, the wolf, and the deer. The wolf and the deer are the common ancestors of most of the populations that participate in the Tengri religion.

[awesomesauce2929]

Ship meme: SELF INDULGENT BUT SHHH

Hades/Kanon? 🥺

*puts my cool glasses on* :3 I see you Hades/Kanon (or a ship name I made for them, HaKan, fun fact, Hakan is Turkish name meaning Emperor/Supreme Ruler which comes from Khagan, a title of imperial rank in Turkic languages, so seeing Hades being well, a ruler of the Underworld and we know Kanon's ambitious was hehehe) Squick / Just nope / A trainwreck you can’t look away from / Mehh but they are bloody everywhere / Not interested but no negative feelings / I need to see how I could make it work / BroTP / Cute / I love them / They rented a room in my mind and are here to stay

A greek g-d is needed to handle to tame Kanon, no one else can handle Kanon. Hades is happy to provide that discipline through his kindness. Kanon's nature is to challenge almost everything in a way Hades finds it interesting and has an interest on the new golden Gemini, powerful and dangerous, seeing him as a potential opponent/rival. But down the line, they realised that deep down they got a cue tsundere side they both tease...dangerously about it. It was almost a game...until feelings got involved, Hades was the first who fell in love with Kanon in a slow burn fashion whilst Kanon was in denial "why do i have soft spot for the Underworld ruler...I wonder why?" I love the goth/unhinged pairing due to the aesthetic and how Hades is like "cool" to Kanon's antics, he looks unbothered by it but sometimes secretly he is just amused how Kanon can go. Also I still have that conspiracy theory if Kanon was a specter and wins the holy war for Hades, that Hades would give something to rule to make his consort happy-ish or less desperate for power. And Kanon is attracted to Hades' powerful personality that he can kneel to him more easier compared to Pose and Athena heheh

[brookstonalmanac]

Events 12.29

1170 – Thomas Becket, Archbishop of Canterbury, is assassinated inside Canterbury Cathedral by followers of King Henry II; he subsequently becomes a saint and martyr in the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church. 1503 – The Battle of Garigliano was fought between a Spanish army under Gonzalo Fernández de Córdoba and a French army commanded by Ludovico II, Marquess of Saluzzo. 1607 – According to John Smith, Pocahontas, daughter of Powhatan leader Wahunsenacawh, successfully pleads for his life after tribal leaders attempt to execute him. 1778 – American Revolutionary War: Three thousand British soldiers under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Archibald Campbell capture Savannah, Georgia. 1812 – USS Constitution, under the command of Captain William Bainbridge, captures HMS Java off the coast of Brazil after a three-hour battle. 1835 – The Treaty of New Echota is signed, ceding all the lands of the Cherokee east of the Mississippi River to the United States. 1845 – The United States annexes the Republic of Texas and admits it as the 28th state. 1860 – The launch of HMS Warrior, with her combination of screw propeller, iron hull and iron armour, renders all previous warships obsolete. 1874 – The military coup of Gen. Martinez Campos in Sagunto ends the failed First Spanish Republic and the monarchy is restored as Prince Alfonso is proclaimed King of Spain. 1876 – The Ashtabula River railroad disaster occurs, leaving 64 injured and 92 dead at Ashtabula, Ohio. 1890 – On Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, 300 Lakota are killed by the United States 7th Cavalry Regiment. 1911 – Mongolia gains independence from the Qing dynasty, enthroning 8th Jebtsundamba Khutughtu as Khagan of Mongolia. 1913 – Cecil B. DeMille starts filming Hollywood's first feature film, The Squaw Man. 1930 – Sir Muhammad Iqbal's presidential address in Allahabad introduces the two-nation theory and outlines a vision for the creation of Pakistan. 1934 – Japan renounces the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922 and the London Naval Treaty of 1930. 1937 – The Irish Free State is replaced by a new state called Ireland with the adoption of a new constitution. 1940 – In the Second Great Fire of London, the Luftwaffe fire-bombs London, England, killing almost 200 civilians during World War II. 1972 – Eastern Air Lines Flight 401 (a Lockheed L-1011 TriStar) crashes in the Florida Everglades on approach to Miami International Airport, Florida, killing 101 of the 176 people on board. 1975 – A bomb explodes at LaGuardia Airport in New York City, killing 11 people and injuring more than 75. 1989 – Czech writer, philosopher and dissident Václav Havel is elected the first post-communist President of Czechoslovakia. 1989 – The Nikkei 225 for the Tokyo Stock Exchange hits its all-time intra-day high of 38,957.44 and closing high at 38,915.87, serving as the apex of the Japanese asset price bubble. 1992 – Fernando Collor de Mello, president of Brazil, tries to resign amidst corruption charges, but is then impeached. 1994 – Turkish Airlines Flight 278 (a Boeing 737-400) crashes on approach to Van Ferit Melen Airport in Van, Turkey, killing 57 of the 76 people on board. 1996 – Guatemala and leaders of Guatemalan National Revolutionary Unity sign a peace accord ending a 36-year civil war. 1998 – Leaders of the Khmer Rouge apologize for the Cambodian genocide that claimed over one million lives. 2003 – The last known speaker of Akkala Sami dies, rendering the language extinct. 2006 – The UK settles its Anglo-American loan, post-WWII loan debt. 2013 – A suicide bomb attack at the Volgograd-1 railway station in the southern Russian city of Volgograd kills at least 18 people and wounds 40 others. 2013 – Seven-time Formula One champion Michael Schumacher suffers a massive head injury while skiing in the French Alps. 2020 – A large explosion at the airport in the southern Yemeni city of Aden kills at least 22 people and wounds 50.

[irithnova]

My dumb notes on Turkic and Mongolic ppls:

Culturally and linguistically, Turkic and Mongolic people have different roots, this is evident through the language. They have different root words, but they do have shared words/loaned words from one another.

So for example, the word Khan is used in both Turkic and Mongolic languages, and the Rouran and Xianbei were both proto Mongolic peoples who used the term Khan first (most likely the Rourans).

Also, a lot of Mongolian rivers, lakes and mountains in the West have names derived from Turkic words, whereas Eastern Mongolian landmarks have purely Mongolian/Mongolic names.

When it comes to genetics, there is no doubt that they intermarried, as they're both nomadic peoples from central Asia. Nomadic cultures were known to marry outside of their clans to prevent producing weak children. Turkic and Mongolic people intermingled/lived next to one another, so there were definitely people from both backgrounds.

Whether Chinggis himself had Turkic blood is up for debate, but from the Mongolians I've talked to, there is no evidence that he considered himself Turkic. His father's line has always been Mongolian. Sure, there could have been Turkic person or two thrown in there, but after a few generations their blood significance doesn't matter.

I've seen this rumour floating around that Chinggis referred to the Turkics as "Western barbarians" in his letter to Qiu Chuji?? I cannot for the life of me find this anywhere though so it may not be true.

Despite this, Chinggis accepted people under his state regardless of their background, so he wasn't a separatist. Sorta similar to what Modu Chanyu did? In letter, upon conquering a neighbouring tribe he wrote (paraphrasing because I don't remember the full thing) "The [tribe name] has been conquered by us... They are now Hun.".

So, regardless of ethnicity or culture, according to Hunnu tradition, any neighbouring nomadic peoples who were conquered by them are now considered one with them.

Likewise, Chinggis could have viewed the Turkics in a similar way, since his people have been freed from the vassalage from the first Turkic Khaganate, then the Uighur Khanate etc, meaning that these people were used to viewing themselves as the subjects of the Ashina clan and their later successors.

However this isn't me trying to like... Open up the floodgates for Turkish/Kazakh nationalist propaganda like "Chinggis was a Turk/Kazakh!"/"The Mongol Empire was not the Mongols doing!" etc etc. Despite the similarities between the cultures of the two, they were still individual groups. Just because they had similar cultures, intermixed, ruled over each other etc, it doesn't not mean they are the same people or can be categorised as the same people. By that logic then, you could argue that Ukrainians are actually Russians because of the language and cultural similarities/them being neighbours lol.

Chinggis definitely was a Mongol and definitely considered himself a Mongol. It says in the Secret History that he was from the Borjigin clan which was a Mongol confederation. Iranian sources also say that he only spoke middle Mongol, letters from the Mongol Empire would only be written in Mongolian.  His policies (despite adopting other nomadic peoples into his empire) favoured Mongols the most, no Mongol was to be taken as a slave, while others could. I mean, the Mongol Empire, despite its progressiveness (for the time) had its own caste system, and put Mongols above Turkic peoples. So even back then, despite the greater similarities between the two cultures (nowadays they're a bit more different with Turkic peoples adopting Islam and influenced by other cultures too), the Mongols still acknowledged their individualism and implemented superiority over Turkic peoples.

So idk these notes were me trying to flesh out and word in the most simple way possible the differences between Mongolic/Turkic groups it may not all be correct tho..

[dan6085]

Top 20 list of significant wars involving the Byzantine Empire:

1. **Gothic War (535-554)**: Byzantines fought Ostrogoths for control of Italy, ending in Byzantine victory.

2. **Iberian War (526-532)**: Byzantines fought Sassanid Persians over Iberia (Georgia), resulting in a Byzantine victory.

3. **Byzantine-Sassanid War (602-628)**: A protracted conflict between Byzantines and Sassanids, ending with Byzantine victory, but weakening both empires significantly.

4. **Arab-Byzantine Wars (7th-11th centuries)**: Series of conflicts with Arab Caliphates, marked by Byzantine losses in the Levant and North Africa.

5. **Byzantine-Bulgarian Wars (7th-14th centuries)**: Ongoing conflicts with Bulgarian states, resulting in territorial shifts over the centuries.

6. **First Crusade (1096-1099)**: Byzantines cooperated with Crusaders to reclaim Jerusalem, establishing Crusader states in the process.

7. **Byzantine-Latin Wars (13th century)**: Series of conflicts between the Byzantine Empire and Latin states established after the Fourth Crusade, resulting in Byzantine attempts to reclaim lost territories.

8. **Byzantine-Ottoman Wars (13th-15th centuries)**: Ongoing wars with the rising Ottoman Empire, culminating in the fall of Constantinople in 1453.

9. **Palaiologan Civil War (1321-1328)**: Internal conflict within the Byzantine Empire, weakening it in the face of external threats.

10. **Byzantine-Turkish Wars (14th-15th centuries)**: Ongoing conflicts with various Turkish beyliks, contributing to the eventual fall of the Byzantine Empire.

11. **Byzantine-Arab Wars of 780-1180**: Long-lasting conflicts with various Arab Caliphates and dynasties, resulting in territorial losses for the Byzantines.

12. **Byzantine-Persian Wars of 572-591**: Conflict with Sassanid Persia over territories in the Eastern Roman Empire, resulting in a peace treaty.

13. **Byzantine-Seljuk Wars (11th-12th centuries)**: Wars with the Seljuk Turks, leading to the loss of Anatolia and the weakening of the Byzantine Empire.

14. **Byzantine-Georgian Wars (11th century)**: Wars with the Kingdom of Georgia, leading to territorial changes in the Caucasus region.

15. **Byzantine-Norman Wars (11th century)**: Byzantines fought Normans in Southern Italy and Sicily, with mixed outcomes.

16. **Byzantine-Venetian War (1171-1172)**: Conflict between Byzantines and Venetians over trade routes and territories.

17. **Byzantine-Lombard Wars (6th-8th centuries)**: Wars with the Lombards in Italy, leading to Byzantine control of parts of Italy.

18. **Byzantine-Serbian Wars (11th-15th centuries)**: Wars between the Byzantine Empire and medieval Serbian states, leading to territorial changes in the Balkans.

19. **Byzantine-Genoese Wars (14th century)**: Wars between the Byzantine Empire and the Republic of Genoa over trade and influence in the Black Sea region.

20. **Byzantine-Avar Wars (6th-9th centuries)**: Conflicts between Byzantines and the Avar Khaganate, resulting in territorial changes in the Balkans.

These wars represent pivotal moments in Byzantine history, shaping the empire's fate over the centuries. If you have specific questions about any of these conflicts or need more details, feel free to ask!

[uzunbacakadem]

Indian-Ambassador-to-Rome-Augustus-Zarmanos-Khagan

*

Strabon-Geography-Book-15

*

Strabon bundan 2000 yıl önce 'Coğrafya' adlı betiğinde şunu yazıyor: "Burada, Hintli atalarının geleneklerine uygun olarak kendini ölümsüzleştiren Bargosalı bir Hintli olan Zarmanochegas yatıyor." Peki, Hindistan Bargosa'dan İmparator Augustus'a gönderilen bu elçi kimin nesi?

ENGLISH:

Strabo writes this 2000 years ago in his book called 'Geography': 

"Here lies Zarmanochegas, an Indian from Bargosa who immortalized himself in accordance with the traditions of his Indian ancestors."

 So, who is this envoy sent from India Bargosa to Emperor Augustus?

*

*

Strabons Erdbeschreibung: in siebzehn Büchern, Volume 3

*

Adı Zarman-os/Sarman-os Khagan! Çoğu bilen adam, adamın namını zaten Türkçe Kağan ile açıklamış. Ama niyeyse adın kökeninde zorlanmışlar biraz. Cahil cesareti gösterip diyeyim: Neden SARMAN olmasın? Sarman Türkçemizde bol: Azman, iri; sarı (ak) anlamları var.

ENGLISH:

Most scholars have already explained the man's title/nick as Turkish Kagan.

 But for some reason they had difficulty with the origin of his name ZARMANOS.

 Let me show ignorant courage and propose this:

 Why not Turkic SARMAN? 

 There are many "Sarman"s in our Turkish: 

It means very big, great; yellow (white).

*

*

Eski Türkçe +man/men eki karşımıza çok çıkan bir ek. Renk adlarından ad yapar: >Alman, Akman, Karaman... * Bu elçinin adı niye bu şekilde açıklanmasın? Yani Ak/Sarı saçlı adam > SARMAN KAĞAN * 2000 yıl önce Hindistan'dan Roma'ya gelen elçi Türk. Daha ne yazayım bre?

*

ENGLISH:

The old Turkish +man/men suffix is a very common suffix. 

Makes names from color names like: 

>Al(RED)man, Ak(WHITE)man, Kara(BLACK)man... 

* 

Why shouldn't this ambassador's name be revealed in this way? 

SARMAN-OS/ZARMAN-OS = white/blonde haired

 > SARMAN KAGAN 

* 

Turkish ambassador who came to Rome from India 2000 years ago. A Turk who should visit Rome as Indian ambassador... 

 What else should I write?

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Bargosa - India

*

Uzunbacak Adem

[respondedinkind]

what does your muse's name mean?

Khan: Thanks to this ancient name, baby is sure to be a force to be reckoned with. Khan, which is more popular as a surname, is a Turkish boy's name meaning "prince," so get ready to give your son the royal treatment. Khan is a shorter form of Khagan, and was originally a historic title given to military chiefs and rulers. It's perfect if you see baby being a natural-born leader. This name's popularity is due in no small part to Genghis Khan's conquests across Asia, but other famous bearers include The Jungle Book's Shere Khan, as well as funk and disco icon Chaka Khan.

stolen from: @nightmdic

tagging: @ssolessurvivor @bloodstainedstar @wtsns @sxbaist and you! ♥ Tag me so I can read!

[thereteller]

Turks and Romans around ~1000 - 1100 AD according to Byzantine Empire of the time. In the ages of Roman Empire and/or Eastern Roman Empire also known as Byzantine Empire or Byzantium, self-describing of Byzantine Greeks was “Romans (Romaioi)” instead of “Greeks (Ellines)”.

To the Romans and/or Eastern Romans (Byzantines), after diplomatically, commercially and militarily being in contact with the Khaganate of Tourkoi (Turks) who were formerly known as Skythikoi (Scythians), now known as Tourkoi (Turks, i.e. Turkish Khaganate, also Gök-Türk Khaganate or Turkic Khaganate), thus the ethnonym Skythikoi was used together with Tourkoi as cognates, and slowly replaced its usage completely to Tourkoi in time. Those Turkophone groups included tribes such as Huns, i.e. those who originally bore the ethnonym Hun, popularly and falsely known as “Hun elites”, should be called as “Huns” only, thus excluding their non-Hunnic allies who are Indo-European or Uralic speakers who cannot be counted as Hun and/or Hunnic or Hunnish. After the dissolution of the Khaganate of Tourkoi (Turkish or Turkic Khaganate), Turkophone tribes who arrived around boundaries of Byzantines and raided towards Europe and Iran (and/or Persia) and also directly towards the realm of the Byzantine Empire such as Anatolia and Balkans, continued to be called Tourkoi besides aging usage of Skythikoi. One of the examples that Romaioi used both Skythikoi and Tourkoi together commonly for collective Turkophone tribes is the name of a prominent unit they used in their military ranks called “Skythikon (Scythian)” which only made up of strong warlike cavalry of Turkophone tribes such as Pechenegs, Cumans, Bulgars etc. Prominent Turkophone tribes who remained around Europe after the dissolution of Hunnic Confederation without losing their identity such as Ogurs (Oghurs, Oğurs, Onogurs, Uturgurs, Kuturgurs, Saragurs, Altzikurs) and Agacheri (meaning in the language of Turks: “woodman, woodmen”; Akatziri in Huns, Agathyrsi in Scythians) were also called Tourkoi and their realm was called Tourkia. For example, the realm of Onogurs was called Western Tourkia even after the arrival and domination of Turk-identified Uralo-Turks called “Magyars” who were led by other Ogur Turks of Arpad together with the Turkophone Kabars who lost the Khazar Civil War, in the Ogur Turk ruling Confederation of Onoguria (Onoguria > Ungaria > Hungary) until around 1300s, thus the Kingdom of Hungary was always called “Tourkia (Turkey)”, or “Western Tourkia” in contrast to “Eastern Tourkia” also known as Khazaria, a khaganate established by an Oğur or Oğuz tribe called “Khazar” (the Turkish Khaganate called them “Sabar”, a Turkophone tribe which was also allied with Huns, also known as “Sabir”), which was established soon after the dissolution of the Turkish Khaganate. Before the arrival of Onogurs in the Pannonian plains and causing Byzantines to call their realm “Onoguria” or “Ungaria (Hungary)”; they were living around a region called Etelköz, probably north of the peninsula of Taurica around modern-day Kyiv (Kiev), the land they will arrive was ruled by the Avars, another Turkophone tribe that lost a great war against the Turkish Khaganate and fled into the Pannonian plains, defeating the Germanic Gepids. They had Turkish-named khagans like Bayan, and their realm was called “Avaria” by the Byzantines, and they were sometimes called “Varchonites” which is the unification of the ethnonyms Avar and Hun, thus Varchonites > Avarhuns, Byzantines also called them “descendants of Huns”. Khagan of Tourkia sent diplomats to demand the withdraw of the Eastern Roman recognition of Avar rule in the Pannonian plains and a joint Turkish-Byzantine offensive towards the realm of Avar tribe, self-described as “Avar Khaganate”.

Also other Turkish tribes such as Pechenegs, Oghuz (Oguz and Ogur tribes were the biggest and the main body of all Turkophone tribes, all other Turkophone tribes anciently split off from this great tribe in early times. Oguz or Ogur means “the tribes” or “the people”. The Tribe or “Oguz/Ogur” constitued the greatest and most populous tribes or tribal unions of the Turks in history), Cumans (or Kipchaks), and a prominent dynasty or clan from the Oghuz tribe called Selchuk who founded the Seljuk Empire, controlled and conquered nearly all of Anatolian peninsula after conquering Iran (Persia), and also other statelets of Oğuz Turk clans which was established in Anatolia after the arrival of populous Oguz Turks in Anatolia following the conquest of Anatolia by the Seljuk Turks, such as Saltuk, Danishment, Mengujeg, and the first Turkish sailor in history named Tzachas (Chaka or Çaka); were also called “Tourkoi” and their realm “Tourkia”. Tzachas was a captive from a battle between Tourkoi and Romaioi around Smyrna, and until Alexius Komnenus rule he lived in the Byzantine court and served for them, but when Komnenus forcefully kicked him from Constantinople, he fled to Smyrna and as a commander he defeated the Romaioi armies, he allied with Pecheneg Turks and made assaults against the Byzantines together, captured Smyrna and cities and towns around Smyrna and establishing an Smyrna-based independent Turkish state, and created the first navy of Turks in history and conquered Midilli, Sakız and Sisam islands around 1090s. From the other heavily populous mass migration of Oğuz and Cuman Turks who arrived in Anatolia (other than other destinations for them such as Hungary, Bulgaria, Iran, India, Egypt etc.) fleeing from the Great Mongol Invasion of Genghis, clans such as Jandar, Teke, Eretna, Germiyan, Ottoman etc. settled in Anatolia under the protection of Seljuk Tourkia which was later defeated by the invading Mongols just like Cuman Tourkia which was defeated by the Mongols; leaving the Mongol vassal-state Seljuk Tourkia and established independent beyliks to rebel and fight against the Mongols and their allies to end the Mongol dominion over Anatolia. After the dissolution of Seljuk Tourkia, Ottoman Empire rose up and the realm of Ottomans was also called “Tourkia”, thus since the ages of Seljuk Tourkia and Ottoman Tourkia, it’s still called the “Republic of Tourkia (Turkey)”.

[it-begins-with-rain]

TV Recommendation: The Long Ballad

In the early 600s C.E., the greatest threat to the Tang Dynasty is the Eastern Turkish Khaganate. 

While the Khaganate’s elite Ashile Eagle Division is laying the groundwork for cooperation or failure within the capitol, the inferior of the empire’s two princes- Prince Qin- overthrows his brother the Crown Prince in a bloody coup that leaves the Crown Prince’s family annihilated.

All except for Prince Qin’s niece, who he’d always treated as a daughter. 

Now a fugitive, Princess Chang Ge poses as a man and hides within the city- repeatedly running into a dashing young smuggler named A’Zun. A’Zun is clever, rich, and a peerless warrior- but he’s quickly enchanted by Chang Ge, even before realizing she’s a woman.

Chang Ge has sworn to overthrow her uncle and pay him back for betraying her family, no matter the cost. She steals the imperial seal of the office of the Crown Prince and flees the city with A’Zun’s help, then runs into him time and again on the road as they dodge dangers and traps.

But what Chang Ge does not realize is that A’Zun is no smuggler. He is Ashile Sun, the most elite commander and military strategist in the Khaganate.

And he is within Tang borders at the order of the Khan himself, tasked with bringing down the empire once and for all.

A brilliant strategist and warrior in her own right, Chang Ge seeks to dethrone the new Crown Prince and destroy his family as he destroyed hers (Except maybe not his daughter, her beloved cousin who wants nothing more than to protect Chang Ge).

What will a world-weary Chang Ge do once she figures out her dear new friend A’Zun is the legendary Ashile Sun? 

And what kind of hell will be unleashed if Chang Ge and Ashile Sun work together?

[womenfrommars]

Debunking myths about Jewish history

1. ‘’Ashkenazi Jews are white Europeans’’

Let’s start with the claim that’s been propagated the most on the Internet. The claim is that some ethnic Jews are indeed Middle-Eastern (e.g. Sephardi and Mizrahi), but that the Ashkenazi Jews specifically are (white) Europeans. This claim simply isn’t supported by scientific evidence.

The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring nonJewish communities during and after the Diaspora.

(...)

The m values based on haplotypes Med and 1L were ~13% ± 10%, suggesting a rather small European contribution to the Ashkenazi paternal gene pool. When all haplotypes were included in the analysis, m increased to 23% ± 7%. This value was similar to the estimated Italian contribution to the Roman Jewish paternal gene pool. (Hammer et al. 2000)

About 80 Sephardim, 80 Ashkenazim and 100 Czechoslovaks were examined for the Yspecific RFLPs revealed by the probes p12f2 and p40a,f on TaqI DNA digests. The aim of the study was to investigate the origin of the Ashkenazi gene pool through the analysis of markers which, having an exclusively holoandric transmission, are useful to estimate paternal gene flow. The comparison of the two groups of Jews with each other and with Czechoslovaks (which have been taken as a representative source of foreign Y-chromosomes for Ashkenazim) shows a great similarity between Sephardim and Ashkenazim who are very different from Czechoslovaks. On the other hand both groups of Jews appear to be closely related to Lebanese. A preliminary evaluation suggests that the contribution of foreign males to the Ashkenazi gene pool has been very low (1 % or less per generation). (Benerecetti et al. 1993)

A sample of 526 Y chromosomes representing six Middle Eastern populations (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Kurdish Jews from Israel; Muslim Kurds; Muslim Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Authority Area; and Bedouin from the Negev) was analyzed for 13 binary polymorphisms and six microsatellite loci. The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly, yet significantly, from Ashkenazi Jews. The differences among Ashkenazim may be a result of low-level gene flow from European populations and/or genetic drift during isolation. (Nebel et al. 2001)

Here, genome-wide analysis of seven Jewish groups (Iranian, Iraqi, Syrian, Italian, Turkish, Greek, and Ashkenazi) and comparison with non-Jewish groups demonstrated distinctive Jewish population clusters, each with shared Middle Eastern ancestry, proximity to contemporary Middle Eastern populations, and variable degrees of European and North African admixture. Two major groups were identified by principal component, phylogenetic, and identity by descent (IBD) analysis: Middle Eastern Jews and European/Syrian Jews. The IBD segment sharing and the proximity of European Jews to each other and to southern European populations suggested similar origins for European Jewry and refuted large-scale genetic contributions of Central and Eastern European and Slavic populations to the formation of Ashkenazi Jewry. Rapid decay of IBD in Ashkenazi Jewish genomes was consistent with a severe bottleneck followed by large expansion, such as occurred with the so-called demographic miracle of population expansion from 50,000 people at the beginning of the 15th century to 5,000,000 people at the beginning of the 19th century. Thus, this study demonstrates that European/Syrian and Middle Eastern Jews represent a series of geographical isolates or clusters woven together by shared IBD genetic threads. (Atzmon et al. 2010)

2. '’Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the Khazars’’

Another popular idea on the Internet, which is also associated with the alt-right, is that Ashkenazi Jews are the descendants of the Khazar people, from the Khazar empire (roughly 600-1000). This culture completely died out and there are no direct descendants, so genetic testing is a bit difficult.

However, there still has been done genetic testing that confirms this hypothesis to be false.

Employing a variety of standard techniques for the analysis of population-genetic structure, we find that Ashkenazi Jews share the greatest genetic ancestry with other Jewish populations, and among non-Jewish populations, with groups from Europe and the Middle East. No particular similarity of Ashkenazi Jews with populations from the Caucasus is evident, particularly with the populations that most closely represent the Khazar region. Thus, analysis of Ashkenazi Jews together with a large sample from the region of the Khazar Khaganate corroborates the earlier results that Ashkenazi Jews derive their ancestry primarily from populations of the Middle East and Europe, that they possess considerable shared ancestry with other Jewish populations, and that there is no indication of a significant genetic contribution either from within or from north of the Caucasus region. (Behar et al. 2013)

However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ∼12% of the present-day Ashkenazim. (Nebel et al. 2005)

3. '’Palestinians are indigenous to the land of Israel, so the Jews can’t be indigenous’’

First off, it has been established that Jews and Palestinians share the same ancestry:

Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. (Arnaiz-Villena et al. 2001)

If Palestinians are considered native, then so should Jews, since both descend from the ancient Canaanites.

Furthermore, the Hebrew Bible states that Philistines (’’Palestinians’’) came from Caphtor, which has been identified as modern-day Crete, an island that is part of Greece (see also Finkelstein 2002). Other contestants for Caphtor include Cyprus and Cilicia (modern-day Turkey).

Archeological evidence also supports this theory:

Modern archaeologists agree that the Philistines were different from their neighbors: Their arrival on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean in the early 12th century B.C. is marked by pottery with close parallels to the ancient Greek world, the use of an Aegean—instead of a Semitic—script, and the consumption of pork. (National Geographic)

This was more recently confirmed by DNA evidence:

Now, a study published today in the journal Science Advances, prompted by the unprecedented 2016 discovery of a cemetery at the ancient Philistine city of Ashkelon on the southern coast of Israel, provides an intriguing look into the genetic origins and legacy of the Philistines. The research appears to support their foreign origin, but reveals that the reviled outsiders were soon marrying into the local populations. (...) The four early Iron Age DNA samples, all from infants buried beneath the floors of Philistine houses, include proportionally more “additional European ancestry” in their genetic signatures (roughly 14%) than in the pre-Philistine Bronze Age samples (2% to 9%), according to the researchers. While the origins of this additional “European ancestry” are not conclusive, the most plausible models point to Greece, Crete, Sardinia, and the Iberian peninsula. (Idem)

Now, this doesn’t mean that modern-day Palestinians are mostly European, as the research also found that the Philistines were mixing with the local populations. This also explains why modern-day Jews and modern-day Palestinians are genetically very similar (see above). It is highly unlikely that modern-day Palestinians are the direct descendants of the ancient Philistines.

However, the name ‘’Palestine’’ is derived from ‘’Philistia’’:

The first records of the Philistines are inscriptions and reliefs in the mortuary temple of Ramses III at Madinat Habu, where they appear under the name prst, as one of the Sea Peoples that invaded Egypt about 1190 BCE after ravaging Anatolia, Cyprus, and Syria. After being repulsed by the Egyptians, they settled—possibly with Egypt’s permission—on the coastal plain of Palestine from Joppa (modern Tel Aviv–Yafo) southward to Gaza. The area contained the five cities (the Pentapolis) of the Philistine confederacy (Gaza, Ashkelon [Ascalon], Ashdod, Gath, and Ekron) and was known as Philistia, or the Land of the Philistines. It was from this designation that the whole of the country was later called Palestine by the Greeks. (Encyclopædia Britannica)

Modern-day Palestinians are the descendants of local populations who converted to Islam due to Islamic conquest. Likewise, Jews are the descendants of local populations who left the country. Despite this, both groups are genetically related to each other. This is because Jews have been a relatively isolated group of people, since the religion of Judaism doesn’t permit interfaith marriage (unless a non-Jew converts into the faith). In other words: the fact that the Palestinians may be indigenous to the land of Israel doesn’t negate the fact that the Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel.

Our findings corroborate previous studies that suggested a common origin for Jewish and non-Jewish populations living in the Middle East (Santachiara-Benerecetti et al. 1993; Peretz et al. 1997; Hammer et al. 2000).

(...)

According to historical records part, or perhaps the majority, of the Moslem Arabs in this country descended from local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD (Shaban 1971; Mc Graw Donner 1981). These local inhabitants, in turn, were descendants of the core population that had lived in the area for several centuries, some even since prehistorical times (Gil 1992). On the other hand, the ancestors of the great majority of present-day Jews lived outside this region for almost two millennia. Thus, our findings are in good agreement with historical evidence and suggest genetic continuity in both populations despite their long separation and the wide geographic dispersal of Jews. (Nebel et al. 2000)

4. ‘’Well, the Palestinians were there first’’

As discussed before, the ancient Philistines from the book of Deuteronomy are said to have immigrated from Caphtor, which has been identified as island in southern Europe. The ancient Philistines have no direct descendants because they mixed with local populations. The ancient Philistines are also mentioned in the book of Genesis, which mentions they came from Egypt. According to rabbinic sources, this refers to a different people from the Philistines mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy. As discussed before, modern-day Palestinians descend from neither of these people. Palestinians maintain they are the descendants of the ancient Canaanites:

Both Israeli and Palestinian politicians claim the region of Israel and the Palestinian territories is the ancestral home of their people, and maintain that the other group was a late arrival. “We are the Canaanites,” asserted Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas last year. “This land is for its people…who were here 5,000 years ago.” Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, meanwhile, said recently that the ancestors of modern Palestinians “came from the Arabian peninsula to the Land of Israel thousands of years” after the Israelites. (National Geographic)

As discussed, modern-day Jews and modern-day Palestinians are genetically very similar. This was again established by a recent study:

Finally, we show that the genomes of present-day groups geographically and historically linked to the Bronze Age Levant, including the great majority of present-day Jewish groups and Levantine Arabic-speaking groups, are consistent with having 50% or more of their ancestry from people related to groups who lived in the Bronze Age Levant and the Chalcolithic Zagros. These present-day groups also show ancestries that cannot be modeled by the available ancient DNA data, highlighting the importance of additional major genetic effects on the region since the Bronze Age. (Agranat-Tamir et al. 2020)

According to the Bible, when the Israelites left Egypt, they conquered the Canaanites, who were already living in the land of Israel. Joshua 10:40 mentions there are no survivors of the ancient Canaanites. However, the Bible was written much later after these events took place. The study referenced above supports the hypothesis of continuity, i.e. the ancient Canaanites were not completely wiped out by the Israelites. Instead, Canaanite culture slowly morphed into other cultures, including the culture of the Israelites. As referenced under 3., it is likely both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites.

The Bible itself also mentions the Canaanites continued to exist in Judges 3:1-3 and explains the command to the Israelites was only given to teach them warfare (not to actually annihilate the Canaanites). It is more likely the Canaanites indeed continued to exist:

We show that present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age. (Haber et al. 2017)

To put it differently, in the land of Israel, the ancient Canaanites were not destroyed, but rather subsumed by the Israelites. The Jews have maintained this culture and tradition. The Palestinians, on the other hand, have not. Palestinians didn’t maintain any tradition from the ancient Canaanites. Instead, their culture, tradition, and language can be traced back to the Hejaz, a region in the west of modern-day Saudi Arabia. This is also the birthplace of the religion of Islam.

Indeed, up until recently, Palestinians were not even called ‘’Palestinians’’. Instead, they were referred to as ‘’Palestinian Arabs’’. A report from 1946 gives more insight. In Chapter VI, titled ‘’The Arab Attitude’’, it states the following:

The Committee heard a brief presentation of the Arab case in Washington, statements made in London by delegates from the Arab States to the United Nations, a fuller statement from the Secretary General and other representatives of the Arab League in Cairo, and evidence given on behalf of the Arab Higher (committee and the Arab Office in Jerusalem). In addition, subcommittees visited Baghdad Riyadh, Damascus, Beirut and Amman, where they were informed of the views of Government and of unofficial spokesmen.

Stopped to the bare essentials, the Arab case is based upon the fact that Palestine is a country which the Arabs have occupied for more than a thousand years, and a denial of the Jewish historical claims to Palestine.

This report states Arabs have lived in Palestine ‘’for more than a thousand years’’, referring to the Islamic conquest of Palestine in the 7th century. Clearly, Palestinians are identified as Arabs here, by Palestinian leaders themselves.

Another report from the same year supports this view:

In addition to the question of right, the Arabs oppose the claims of political Zionism because of the effects which Zionist settlement has already had upon their situation and is likely to have to an even greater extent in the future. Negatively, it has diverted the whole course of their national development. Geographically Palestine is part of Syria; its indigenous inhabitants belong to the Syrian branch of the Arab family of nations; all their culture and tradition link them to other Arab peoples; and until 1917 Palestine formed part of the Ottoman Empire which included also several of the other Arab countries. The presence and claims of the Zionists, and the support given them by certain Western Powers have resulted in Palestine being cut off from other Arab countries and subjected to a regime, administrative, legal, fiscal and educational, different from that of the sister-countries. Quite apart from the inconvenience to individuals and the dislocation of trade which this separation has caused, it has prevented Palestine participating fully in the general development of the Arab world.

You can see the story changed overtime. The Palestinian claim to Canaanite blood is an ad hoc claim that is meant to predate the Jewish presence in Israel.

In general, the Palestinian claim to Canaanite roots also erases the fact that the Israelites drove the Canaanites out of Israel, to Lebanon. The remaining Canaanites were subsumed by the Israelites. Therefore, if Palestinians are native to the land of Israel, and if they descend from the Canaanites, then they must also descend from the Israelites. However, Palestinians attempt to bypass the Israelite link, claiming to not descend from the Israelites. I believe they likewise deny that the Jews descend from the Israelites, claiming that instead the Jews are just Europeans.

This wouldn’t be the first time the Palestinians changed their narrative either. They used to claim they descend from the ancient Philistines, referring to Genesis 21:34 as proof:

And Abraham stayed in the land of the Philistines for a long time. (New International Version)

As such, the Palestinian PM argued they have lived in the land of Palestine before Abraham. (Video is in the article.)

As explained earlier, the Philistines immigrated from southern Europe, and the Palestinians are not directly descended from them, given the DNA evidence. The ancient Philistines have disappeared as a people, because they mixed with local populations. That also explains why modern-day Palestinian DNA is not mostly European, as would be the case if they directly descended from the Philistines.

Recommended further reading

‘’Are Jews Indigenous to the Land of Israel?’’

‘‘Jews and Arabs Share Genetic Link to Ancient Canaanites, Study Finds‘‘

‘‘The Canaanites weren’t annihilated, they just ‘moved’ to Lebanon‘‘