ATEEZ Theory TidBits Ep 2 - Which positions do the members have on the ship?
So we all know that ATEEZ have a pirate storyline (duh). So, it makes sense that they would all have roles which correspond to the real roles of crew members on a ship (duh).
Some of these are obvious, but some of them, less so. How much do they mean to the storyline? Goodness knows, and probably not much, in most cases (ie. most cases excepting HJ, SH, and maybe Mingi occasionally).
But it’s still interesting to explore, as a concept, and just in general.
Some are conciously picked up by the fandom (Hongjoong being Captain) and some are more subconciously absorbed by the fandom (Yunho as second mate). The subconscious ones, like Yunho, also come at least partially from that particular members’ role in the group IRL, as the roles of the members IRL and in the storyline are purposefully matched/very similar. For instance - we see Yunho in the group as an enthusiastic and kind/pure soul who encourages and loves everyone. And in the storyline, we see him playing a large role in keeping all aspects of the ship together and running - like the ‘glue’ of the crew.
Now that I write that out, it doesn’t seem very similar at all. But we see Yunho enthusiastically pointing (metaphorically) towards the future of ATEEZ, and we also see him enthusiastically pointing (literally) towards the horizon/the Treasure/ATEEZ’s goals in the storyline.
For a perhaps easier example, Hongjoong is the Captain of the ship, and is also the leader of the group. In both situations, he is keeping everyone on task and organised, is the mediator between members and between the group and other parties, and decides the goals + how the group will reach them.
The list is currently incomplete, because, in this stage of my analysis, I will need more information to allocate a role on the crew to each member, and to have evidence to back it up. I’ll update the post as I figure out the other members. I’ll leave a summary below, if you’re looking for your bias.
Hongjoong - Captain
Seonghwa - First mate/Quartermaster
Yunho - Second mate/Sailing Master
Yeosang - Pilot/Helmsman/the dude who looks after the loot
San - Master-at-arms/Gunner
Mingi - shantyman/coxswain
Wooyoung - undetermined
Jongho - undetermined
Hongjoong and Seonghwa have pretty clearly defined roles, while Yunho, Mingi, and San are pretty easy to pick up if you stare a little. But the other three - Yeosang, Wooyoung, and Jongho, are much harder. I’m getting there slowly with them. This person on reddit assigned roles to each of the members and gave reasoning. Some of it is pretty accurate, like Seonghwa as Quatermaster, and I can certainly understand their arguments for YS, WY, and JH, but this post is based more on personality than the storyline. And I just don’t have enough evidence to assign the last three members to roles yet... especially Wooyoung. I know he likes cooking, but I don’t think he’s the cook on the ATEEZ ship.
I’m sure we’ll get there eventually. Maybe if I watch the Diay Film again...?
Full explanation of roles below the line.
Hongjoong - the Captain
I mean, it goes without saying. He’s the leader, he’s the Captain, and he, the company, and the members constantly refer to him as such.
And I shouldn’t need the explain the role of the Captain on the ship, either - he’s the leader, the one in charge, and the one who oversees the people who are in charge of keeping the ship running - the first, second, and third mates and other higher-ranking crew members. The role has stayed mostly the same across time and across different types of ships (cruise ships, navy ships, pirate ships, fishing ships etc), so I have nothing to comment on there.
We all know that Hongjoong is the Captain. But, let’s forget for a moment that he’s the actual leader of ATEEZ, and consider what exactly in the storyline shows that he is the Captain. With a few examples, of course.
He’s on the throne (MAMA 2020) and is the one who takes the highest position in performances (eg. KINGDOM - Answer: Ode to Joy)
He directs the members/controls them in the choreography often (Pirate King, Deja Vu etc)
He is the one who starts many performances and introduces the group to the audience (KINGDOM - Symphony No. 9 Wonderland)
Delivers the majority of the storytelling in the lyrics through his rap
Is the one who goes out solo in MVs and things (Don’t Stop)
Shown at the head of the ship (ILLUSION) and often given navigation equipment, maps, and the steering wheel (ILLUSION)
The one who is given the Cromer (Diary Film)
The one who plants ATEEZ’s flag at the Treasure + establishes their goal (Precious and Treasure)
The one who makes all of the cool speeches (KINGDOM - Awakening of Summer)
Is shown in traditional Korean clothes more often than the other members - this makes him seem sophisticated and powerful (The Real)
The storyline is literally about him (Dear Diary, Diary Film etc)
Also often given long and large coats - a symbol of power and wealth. Similarly, he is also given the megaphone and the staff - the former is a way to spread the message of the team, and the latter is a symbol of power and wealth (again)
The one who sprays the red spray paint in HALA HALA’s MV, which makes everyone go crazy
Given his own unique symbol (the one on the armband he wears in Deja Vu, The Real etc)
The one who has the Cromer most of the time (KINDGOM - Wonderland, Diary Film, etc)
The one who brings the members together (Diary film)
What is he writing in his diary??????? (Fever extended edition)
There’s plenty more evidence to find. Hongjoong has easily the most evidence leaning towards his position. But this is also to do with the storyline heavily revolving around him, and with his position being the most easily and clearly defined. It’s much easier to put a lot of symbols and story into a guy who is definitely a leader and only a leader than a guy who ‘does this one random specific job and maybe he does a few other odd jobs but mostly this one and also we don’t really know what his exact position is supposed to be so I guess we’ll just randomly give him this fork to hold or something’.
Hongjoong is the easiest member to write symbolism for, and he is the most important one to write symbolism for, so he gets the majority of it. And he deserves it. AND - it suits him - he has the regal leader persona completely nailed down.
Seonghwa - First mate/Quartermaster
This is another pretty easy one that most of the fandom agrees on. Seonghwa is the oldest in the group, and is often the one backing up Joong, whether in the storyline or real life. He is the one who deals with the members while Joong is doing all of his captain shenanigans - composing, liaising with EDENary and KQ, and confusing the hell out of ATINY. Seonghwa is pretty clearly the second-in-command for ATEEZ.
The first mate of a modern cruise ship is in charge of the passengers and cargo. But ATEEZ don’t have any passengers or cargo, so let’s forget about that. The equivalent role on a pirate ship is a Quartermaster. The Quatermaster was the second-in-command to the Captain and was the representative of the crew to the Captain. Not only did he take on the jobs tat would free the Captain up for more important jobs, he also was the one who divvied up treasure to the crew, and was the mediator between the Captain and crew. He was in charge of punishment on the ship, was involved in directing the ship, and was the counterbalance to the Captain. But, importantly, and most importantly for Seonghwa’s position in the story, is the hierarchy of power. The First mate in most ships doesn’t have much power over the Captain - they (hopefully) respect each other, but the Captain is the one in charge.
However, the Quatermaster had some degree of power over the Captain. He was the one who represented the crew, and was in charge of loot, and, as a power counterbalance to the Captain, was crucial to the ship’s functioning. As an article I looked at said, ‘A wise captain made no decisions that his first mate didn’t support.’ And we know that Seonghwa is the only one who has any power over Hongjoong in the storyline.
So, what evidence points to him in this position?
Is the second-most-often dressed in traditional outfits - this gives him the same power as HJ
Gets the nice, Gothic, Dracula coats
Is the one who represents the crew to Joong (Don’t Stop)
Is the one who leads the team when Joong isn’t there (Don’t Stop)
Most commonly interacts with Joong in key points in the choreo (Eternal Sunshine)
Is shown alone when Joong is gone (Eternal Sunshine)
Is often controlled by Joong (I don’t know the choreo but I remember it happening, will update when I find it)
The one who takes the head of the ship sometimes (WIN)
Is always on Joong’s team (The Real)
Has that big brush in The Real, which isn’t a weapon (I think) but definitely makes him look intimidating
Everyone bows for him in the choreo (even Joong) (WAVE, Treasure, etc)
Is literally held up on a throne (Deja Vu)
Screams his soul out in Utopia (he’s in the centre of the circle formation, and expresses Joong’s views about thinking he found utopia, but realising it was an illusion, then still having hope he can reach it before realising it was a fake place all along)
In this very unique position where he is controlled by Joong the least, but when he is controlled, it is directly/one-on-one
The one who supports Joong (Treasure etc) and is supported by Joong (WAVE etc)
Speaking of, he controls the other members sometimes (Deja Vu, San in Wonderland, etc)
I mean, what else do I have to say? ATEEZ love Seonghwa and made him their First mate, and Hongjoong loves him and made him his First mate. And I love him too.
Ahh, we’re back to this again...
Maybe the Joong demon has actually possessed me...
Yunho - Second mate/Sailing Master
This is an interesting one. It’s very subtle, but it’s there, and you CAN TELL that it’s there, because KQ have been so carefully sending us this mysterious image that it has become part of the fandom’s view of Yunho through images like this.
Ahh, I love this image! Yunho’s the only one who’s really storyline-accurate in it, but the whole thing is pure pirate gold.
This wasn’t a storyline image. It wasn’t related at all to any ATEEZ content. It was just an ATINY making a meme, with no other context or ulterior motive, and no inspiration other than ATEEZ being ATEEZ on their reality shows (which are also a non-canon part of the storyline, so keep that one in mind). And yet, it shows Yunho’s position in the storyline perfectly. He’s at the helm of the ship, directing the team and pointing them ahead towards their goals.
The Second mate is... well, the third-in-command on the ship, and it’s equivalent on a pirate ship (the pilot) serves a very similar purpose. Crucially for the storyline, the second mate is in charge of navigation and keeping everyone on course. He keeps the maps and navigation equipment up-to-date and in good condition, and he logs and records everything that happens on the ship. This was also the role of the sailing master - who was in charge of navigation, and who knew the sea currents and other very sea-ie things, and used them to navigate.
This all makes sense for Yunho - he’s the third oldest, is very skilled (as a dancer and vocalist, especially) and often has a smaller leadership role in the group (looking after the younger members and as the hyung of the 99 line, as a dance leader when learning choreo, leading dances etc). But there are a few other details, to be added below.
Leading/calling for the charge against the kraken (KINGDOM - WONDERLAND)
In the centre of the beginning choreo (Pirate King)
Has key roles in steering etc in WIN
Literally reaches for the Treasure and directs the ship/crew in Pirate King
Can we get some Yunho appreciation here? He has my heart. He’s also the one who inspired this post, so, here you go, Yunho, my king; <3
Yeosang - Pilot/Helmsman/the dude who looks after the loot
Yeah, an odd combo, right? And what the hell does any of this mean, anyway? The dude who looks after the loot? Really, Casper?
Yes really.
Yeosang works closely with Yunho, both in the storyline and the actual group, as main dancers. As mentioned earlier, the Pilot is a very similar role to the Second Mate and Sailing Master - the one who navigates the ship, directs it, and keeps the ship and the documentation of it. The Pilot was involved in these jobs, but was also the best sailor on the ship. They were often the same person, but I think in the ATEEZ storyline, Yunho and Yeosang share different parts of the role. While Yunho directs the crew and keeps them on track towards their goals, Yeosang steers the ship, directs the other crewmembers to steer the ship (move the rigging and things), and, instead of keeping track of the navigation and maps of the ship, keeps track of the loot.
And what is my evidence for this?
Yeosang and Yunho are the two members who are recognised by the robot in ‘Deja Vu’ other than Hongjoong - this shows that they are likely the two members who are actually working to push ATEEZ towards their goals - OR, are the two members who most help push Hongjoong towards his own goals
Work together as dance leaders
Together in performances like KINGDOM - Answer - they fight the white mask man together
Yeosang is often reaching like he is changing the rigging on a ship - eg. ‘Pirate King’
Yeosang is the one who has the Cromer in ‘Deja Vu’
Yeosang often seems to be collecting objects - the paper cranes in the 2022 Season’s Greetings, the instruments in the Diary Film, and lots of other random examples
Yeosang is one of the ones who I kind of need to shove into his role, but not enough that I don’t think he deserves it. Yeosang’s importance to the storyline is definitely underappreciated, but I think a part of this is almost certainly because of the nature of his importance. He does a lot of important things in the storyline, but all of these things are about as random as it can be.
He’s reaching for rigging. Cool, I guess he’s a helmsman. He’s got the Cromer. Why him? How? What does this mean? He’s trapped in the glass box. Um, why? Who picked Yeosang for this? Is he important to keep as a hostage? I guess he’s really important to the team and keeping them together. He’s in the centre of the ‘Pirate King’ choreo? Uuuuhhhh??? He’s got no lines? He’s sliding across the floor in ‘WONDERLAND’?
What is happening???!?!?!
Um, so, I think I’ve found the best roles Yeosang fits into. But it is a bit funky. Please let me know if you think he has a different position. Thanks <3
San - Master-at-arms/Gunner
This role is pretty self-explanatory, and clearly one that most of the fandom has come to accept in the same way as they accept Yunho’s role.
The Master Gunner was in charge of the canons and other weapons on the ship. While the Captain was extremey skilled with pistols and swords, the Master Gunner was skilled with canons. It was a crucial job - not only did he have a large team of men to instruct, he was in charge of a very dangerous job. On a military ship, cannoners would shoot to kill, and to destroy the opposing ship, but pirates wanted to keep the opposing ship afloat - so they could loot as necessary, and maybe even gain another ship. The technical ability needed to cripple opposing ships, but not to destroy them or their cargo, made the role of Master Gunner a highy skilled one.
There isn’t a huge amount of evidence for San, but here’s what we have - it’s definitely more than crumbs... I think...
He is often the one attacking in the storyline and sacrificing himself in the process (KINGDOM - Answer)
Is controlled possibly the most out of all the members - a valuable weapon
When he is controlled, is seen shooting (Immortal Songs - Seo Taiji episode)
The literal birth of the ATEEZ demon
Is associated with animals and animalistic/violent tendencies more than the rest of the members (Halloween performances, especially Black Cat Nero)
A very passionate man who likes his alcohol and his murder (Answer, HALA HALA, etc)
Directs attacks (KINGDOM - WONDERLAND)
At the centre of the (literal) killing choreography (HALA HALA, KINGDOM - WONDERLAND, WONDERLAND itself, etc)
Yes, a lot of these are ‘non-canon’ performances, but keep in mind that ATEEZ have repurposed these songs by other artists, and these other performances, to reveal aspects of their storyline. It may not be ‘canon,’ but it is definitely ‘ATEEZ storyline.’
And a lot of this (like being the demonic center of dance breaks) comes down to San’s unique performance style and skills (and the demon he has conquered and tortures for his own ends), but the reason doesn’t matter. He’s in this position, and this position means something.
Mingi - Coxswain/Shantyman
Another one that is subtle, but Mingi is also easy to recognise. He’s a rapper, he helps the group keep on beat, and his parts in the choreo often involve him directing the group. I say ‘directing’ instead of ‘controlling’, because, not only does he stand IN FRONT of them (and most of the controlling happens from those in the back), but also because it is much more subtle, and involves less harsh movements. Mingi will make a sweeping gesture, and the members will follow him or switch the direction of their dance, whereas someone like Hongjoong of Wooyoung will stand at the back and make harsh, jerking movements which the members belatedly COPY, not follow.
The Coxswain/Shantyman role has been pretty much the same throughout time, and on different types of vessels. The only thing that has really changed the role is the technology available on ships. Shantymen were full-time employees of ships in the medieval period, and all other time periods where rowing was the main form of transport, rather than steam power. They were chosen for their leadership abilities and were highly skilled in keeping everyone on task, and keeping everyone on beat. They would lead the sea shanties which were sung by the men (shanties helped keep the men in time when rowing and performing other tasks), and thus would ensure everyone made the correct movement at the correct time. I heard somewhere (I don’t remember the source, I’m afraid), that a good shantyman was worth... I forget the specifics, but he was worth many, many men actually doing the task. If you’re interested in shanties and shantymen, I recommend this video by Rachel Oates. Coxswains had very similar roles, of keeping everyone in time, going in the right direction, and generally leading the crew, but the term isn’t nearly as interesting or applicable to Mingi as ‘shantyman.’
I’ve already discussed it a bit, but, evidence?
Mingi directing the members in the choreo (Say My Name, HALA HALA, Treasure, Pirate King etc)
Helping the members keep time through his rap (Pirate King, Treasure, Answer, etc)
Is a mouthpiece for HJ’s thoughts in the lyrics - has a lesser role in telling the story, and has some form of leadership through being a ‘mouthpiece’ for Joong (various lyrics)
Often the one who ramps everyone up for a big movement/moment in the story/choreo (HALA HALA, etc)
One of the only ones with some semblance of control at the end of WONDERLAND
Given the handheld mic/radio thing - a smaller ‘version’ of Joong’s megaphone which is a symbol of power + leadership
Unlike Joong and maybe Seonghwa, who have lots of small pieces of evidence pointing to their role, Mingi’s role involves a lot of repetition of the same movements. Almost all ATEEZ songs have Mingi’s rap expressing either his own thoughts or Joong’s, and almost all ATEEZ choreos have Mingi directing the team and keeping them on beat. It’s less the specifics that matter here, and more the overarching themes.
Conclusions
When we say that ATEEZ’s concept is ‘pirates,’ it’s not a joke, it’s not an exaggeration, and it’s not just something that we pick up on occasionally when they’re literally on a ship (like in ‘ILLUSION’. A pirate makes a ship, but a ship doesn’t make a pirate - whether they’re on land, in the sea, or flying a giant ship, they are pirates. And their roles in the real group have been wonderfully merged with their roles in the storyline. It tells us a lot about their characters, their interactions with each other, and their roles in the group and the storyline. It’s a wonderful, semi-hidden piece of storytelling by the KQ team.
And either way, when has a fandom not liked sorting people into categories and matching them up with specific roles? There’s a reason there are Hogwarts AUs for every fandom under the sun, and why the ‘mum and dad of the group’ is such a common trope (now, whether or not that trope is problematic is a completely different debate that we aren’t going to go into today). Only, in this situation, ATEEZ have already sorted themselves, and we just need to figure it out. It’s canon sorting, how brilliant, right?!
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