#very funny like. ppl saying the show is bad. like. as a fan of the originals: did you think the originals were *good*???

[jq37]

I believe ppl have been discussing the name thing b/c a) some ppl use it to call her gendered insults (fair enough) and b) Freshman Year revealed Halflings are the colonized indigenous ppl of Solace and then that NEVER GOT ADDRESSED AGAIN (wild), so the question is "is it bad for us to shit on what may be an Ethnic Halfling name," b/c Penny+the Cubbys have very different names but are they products of assimilation, and do Halflings typically name themselves after items like how the Luckstones are named after a lucky rock, etc. That's also why it's hard to tell if she's supposed to be "white girl hates Affirmative Action" or "model minority punching down."

Hmm, OK. Thanks for the info.

Making fun of someone's name in general isn't very nice but neither is grabbing them by the balls and putting a pistol to their heads. Of course, the first thing is a thing that happens way more often irl so it makes sense that people would be more rubbed wrong by it than this crazy pirate activity that is (hopefully) not happening in anyone's day to day life. But because the racial politics of Spyre isn't really something that's emphasized in play, I can't imagine the players are thinking any deeper than dunking on this very intense Keebler Elf sounding name that Brennan invented irl and then gave to a character designed to oppose them. They don't have the cultural context their characters would have. I don't think they'd be dunking on a whimsical sounding name if the setting was Unsleeping City and it was like, a traditional name from a real life culture.

The only times I can think of racial stuff explicitly coming up in the show is the halfling thing you mentioned and the fact that "evil races" are marginalized enough that there's literally a squad of undercover angels staffed by evil races for when they need an easily believable baddy.

Anyway, I guess my point is this very much feels like a situation where there is def a discussion that can be had on the topic but there's not a ton of material in the text to answer the question and, even if there was, it probably wouldn't be a one to one perfect representation of any real world thing anyway (in the same way that Helioism is obviously very based on Christianity and there are problems in the Helioic church that are analogous to irl problems with Christianity but it literally can't be the exact same thing because this is a world where their god explicitly exists with no faith needed to prove it and there is 1000% a hell you can go to for not following the rules and also your god is influenced by the opinions of the followers and there are other gods too and a WHOLE lot of other things that separate Heliosim from Christianity).

[nereb-and-dungalef]

yeah i think i'm just gonna factor "waiting until the hype dies down" into all my media experiences. watched some of the iwtv tv show and i get to keep all my opinions in my head. it's great

[cursedzucchini]

You know what? Fuck it

DC x DP prompt #3

I think at least lmao.

Anyway! Jason starts making videos on YouTube for one reason or another (is really stressed, no one listens to his rants Abt books who cares). His content is mostly bad books he read or really really really long rants Abt pride and prejudice. Like 3 hours on one tiny detail he noticed on his 214th read through.

He's kinda popular, mostly bc his terrible books videos. He talks Abt the ones that made him the most mad, which coincidentally are mostly romance and supernatural. Like he's one of the well known figures in the supernatural romance critique group (whcih is pretty small, but well). (Also he doesn't show his face on camera, bc secret identity and stuff, it's just his voice over a video of something mundane, like the sky or a room in which is a fly or something)

And now this can go two ways, that i can think of (w dead on main in mind at least)

1) one day Jason finds a book which is supernatural romance and is actually good. It has a kidna cliche system for the supernatural stuff, but with a refreshing twist. The characters have depts and flaws, yet are still very likable. The plot is actually interesting and overall the story's theme is death, not belonging anywhere and overall stuff that is very close to Jason's heart. The story doesn't shy away from violence and it is suprisingly accurate.

(I'm.gonna reblog this w pretty long idea of what this book could be Abt, bc i don't wanna annoy ppl lol)

Anyway Jason kinda falls in love w it, and it becomes famous for being the first novel Jason rated positively or something.

Meanwhile Danny, who was told by jazz writing is good way to get his feeling out, and just wanted to make a quick buck, is really fucking confused how tf did his book become so popular and who tf is this nerd who rates books for a living.

(basically big fan Jason and suspicious/awkward Danny lmao)

2) there is a famous series on Jason profile. It's the worst fucking series he ever read and it's just fucking awful. All the characters are fucking terrible, always going on and on about one thing, the romance sucks in a way that isnt even funny. Jason would love to believe some wrote this as a joke, if it wasn't for the absolute cringefest this was, and it wasn't a whole ass series!! Like who writes 12 books for a joke?

Danny ducking Fenton that's who. Dude was so ducking annoyed at his rogues, he threatened them w writing a terrible romance novels abt them. The ghosts, knowing his terrible grade in literature backed off for a moment, before someone crossed the line. And write Danny did. It was the worst thing he had ever written, the love interest was perfect caricature yet still faithfully go the original. And Danny, because fuck them he lost sommuch sleep over that one prank, decided to publish it. (The book was pretty thin so it didn't take that much time writing it). Unfortunately it became immensely popular in the infinite realm. So the ghosts started crossing lines on purpose. Before Danny figured it out, he had already published his fifth book and was writing another three. After some bargaining, getting a book written Abt them as a piece of shit love interest became a reward.

And while yeah, he had to say his writing was terrible and the books sucked, some small part of him was kinda proud y'know? Like a mother of her twelve ugly as fuck toddlers.

So when he saw some nerd on the internet not only shit talk his book, but also get money of it?

Danny decided to haunt him (just like his books did him, now that everyone knew Abt them thanks to this guy)

(enemies (sorta it's not that serious tho) to lovers ala terrible writer Danny who hates his books and kinda famous YouTuber hasn't who also hates Danny's books)

--

Fuck this is way too long wtf. Anyway imma reblog this w 1) book idea. Might add whatever i think the twelve books could be Abt. Pls if u want to add anything to this pls do!!

[artcherontia]

People who like super seriously neg post about genloss are so funny to me. Like this is the project of like a 19 year old streamer with no previous acting experience full of other people with no acting experience, that is literaly like 90% live improv, and ppl on here will watch it and then be like "wow the lighting is like so amateur and some of the props are not realistic and their acting is bad" like sorry did you expect a movie?? Your suspension of disbelief is so low, do you watch an ameteur production theater play and think "everyone in this theater needs to watch better plays" when they clap?

Of course we can see that there are some bad acting moments, that there are some moments that miss, that it may be too brightly lit or could use some more creative lighting in some places, and that the vibe isn't quite it in some parts, but you can say that and be so normal about it, like uhh, me right now. But it's still a HUGE achievement, and shows you can push the quality of content on twitch, I think you forget. Yeah. This is a fucking twitch show. It's not one of the mainstream movies or shows or books you recommend, and it's stupid to compare some like 19-20 year old streamers passion project on fucking twitch to literal horror classics.

"dsmp fan syndrome" have you concidered we just like fun. If you didn't like generation loss you shouldn't have watched it. "sorry you were lied to" no. Ranboo, Charlie and everyone who hyped the show up were right. This show may not be the best work, and one day it might not even be ranboos best work, because its just the brginning of something awesome, live high quality productions on twitch are going to get insane, Jerma has already set the bar very high with dollhouse, and I think Ranboo is doing a great job.

[sandraharissa]

Giving Silco a bad eye and making this his symbol was such a genius idea, like it’s so delicious on so many levels.

For one it really adds to his look/design. Fans would often joke that he looks like a rat, which is fair and funny, but imo the goal of the designers was to make him look like a shark. He’s got this peculiar nose that gives his whole head roughly the shape of a shark snout, he’s got the broken teeth that look like triangular shark teeth, and then there’s the eye, which has no eyelid and never blinks, exactly like a shark’s eye.

(see Jinx gets it)

Then, on the topic of no eyelid, he obvs never blinks with that eye which gives the impression of constant surveillance and being all-knowing. This ties nicely into the eye being his symbol, the image we see of the open eye that never blinks that is present on all the locations he owns/has influence over/oversees. That was most definitely a part of Silco’s Undercity that he established, keeping ppl in line through fear. It’s reflected in his own man refusing to cooperate with Cait but instead of insulting her or claiming loyalty to a cause he says ‘he’ll kill me’, then we also see it with Babette (who I’m certain knew everything but wouldn’t risk it for Vi and so essentially lead Vi to Sevika/her death) and Huck. It’s most obvious with Marcus, how he thought he could do what he wanted (‘rescue Vi’) against Silco’s interests behind his back cos he’ll never find out, but he does find out eventually which puts Marcus and his daughter in a Situation. This is how Silco does business. (Babette knew and didn’t want to find herself in a Situation in the future imo, telling Vi nothing of value, sending Vi away in a way that wouldn’t cast suspicion on herself and wouldn’t tie Vi to the location of her brothel and essentially leading her to Sevika so she could retroactively claim loyalty even if found out.)

In general the eye imagery is often connected to seeing more than others, the third eye and knowledge. All apply to Silco through his ideas of independence and a unified nation that were revolutionary for the Undercity and ahead of its time. Most notable is the moment when he talks to Vander about Zaun, he looks in the distance as tho he can see it in front of him meanwhile others can’t. Here I could also point to other things like him understanding/being right about the Council like ‘I just need to scare them’ and also the thing Silco himself thinks of as a secret knowledge he possesses aka his monster ideology.

Lastly to me the eye in a big way represents his trauma. It’s literally a wound/disability that is the result of the traumatic event in question but metaphorically it also shows how ever since the traumatic event he’s never been able to see the world in a normal way again but that from then on the way he perceives the world is always filtered through the lens of his trauma. And that is the eye that never closes. But I also think it’s very fitting to give him the one bad eye but keep the other eye normal. I’d say it’s a fair assessment of Silco to say he lives with one leg in reality and the other in his delulu land.

And that also creates a nice contrast with Jinx whose designed so that her right eye is covered most times but just by her bang which could symbolize that she has blind spots and that her ability to see reality is obstructed but otherwise her both eyes are normal. But then she reaches her final form with the shimmer eyes, and even tho from a distance it now looks like she has got the bad left eye, in reality both her eyes are ‘trauma eyes’ now and she can’t see reality for what it is anymore.

[the-9th-genderfluid]

I finally got the digital ticket and bonus features of TGWDLM!

I got the digital ticket and bonus features for TGWDLM and will be putting realizations and stuff I like in this post so its gonna be a long one. A really long one. I'm sorry if this monstrosity of a post happens to cross your feed.

During the small bonus stuff:

I did not realize that the cast is truly that unhinged until the Kickstarter blooper real.

I do wish they had time to keep the clickbait/ top ten news site plot. It seems fun.

The Lipschitz name is from the landlord that was cut from the musical what? IDK what to do with this information.

The fact in the OG script, the meteor landed in a football field ( If Mariah's audition tape is to be believed) meaning the fan theory I once saw that the reason the hive mind sings is because its first victims were theater people so they were doing musical stuff so the spores thought that was how ppl acted on this planet would not work if the script had not changed that detail.

The Dracula arms becoming dabbing is great, I'm surprised but happy that it was not cut.

As a techie, the non actors dancing along in the corners is so accurate.

During the main musical stuff:

(Mostly not new things that the digital ticket version taught me, just me pointing out things I like, funny lines, etc.)

Paul and his autism face during the ted introduction scene

The small dialogue changes between the potshot on Youtube and the digital ticket are all very interesting. The first one I realized was Emma saying "please no come back." instead of "so mean." when man in a hurry says he will never buy there again.

Why does Paul look so awkward while Emma rants about her job.

Right as Lah Dee Dah Dah Day ends, you can hear a character saying "quick change quick change" as they run off stage. Cute and fun detail, I love it.

Legally required to mention the "think about the implications" scene. It is truly iconic. Are you frightened?

I feel like Emma would have a tumblr.

Kind of off topic, but they mention boardgames in the shrub scene, and specifically settlers of catan. I want to announce this is a settlers of catan hate blog, I would rather die than play it ever again. I am Paul hating musicals levels of hatred for that game. If you write anything positive about it, i will actually block you.

The entire alley/ trash can scene is amazing and I love it.

Paul constantly reeks of neurodivergent.

I may be ACAB, but god is Show Me Your Hands amazing and catchy.

Jeff struggling with props is my spirit animal, I am also chronically clumsy

As someone who was raised Christian, Ted's different denominations comment is so accurate to how some people act.

Iconic lines like kick your......head and fuck Clivesdale.

Paul and Emma's whole deep conversation about their childhoods and dreams takes place like two meters from Bill and Ted, and I always forget that because of the way it's cut but like it's funny to think about because it feels so personal, but the two guys are just... there.

Join Us (And Die) is horrifying. I feel like we need a musical where Jaime is the lead? I hear she is pretty vital to the Me and My Dick musical, I will have to watch that later I guess?

While Hidgens is pitching working boys, Ted is so invested, this is why you need to see both unedited and potshot of the musicals.

I love the references that aren't even references yet that the musical makes to NPMD and nightmare time.

I actually love the crack ship of the working boys polyamory theory.

The "should I take the chair?" "yeah and I will take the piano." bit is peak comedy.

I am not the first person to mention this at all, but Ted saying "I bleed red, white and..." *background turns blue* is so smart, bravo team Starkid.

I always cry at let it out, poor Paul.

I love the meta crowd thing the bows do, with Emma seeing the audience, even if its a repeat from Trail to Oregon, it's still good.

As a techie, I want to do lighting for TGWDLM sooo bad.

It's 2 am right now, and I have to decide if I finish this post tonight by watching the commentary video and editing the spelling errors, or if I decide not to fuck up my sleep schedule.

I decided not to completely fuck my sleep shedule, so it sadly took me a couple days.

The commentary video:

I actually don't have many comments after seeing the commentary video, but the things I do mention are long rants, mostly my own similar stories from the high school musical I did tech for.

Lauren hiding from her performance with a eye mask and earbuds is a mix of sad and funny. I hope she has more confidence now, because she is absolutely amazing.

Robert had tonsillitis?! God being sick while doing a musical sucks, half our cast and me had a cold or something for the show. I was right next to the camera because of the location of the tech booth, and so in the recording you hear me trying not to cough and failing for most of the show. I felt so bad.

People saying stuff about Melissa and obnoxious teen/hot chocolate boy surviving as a joke has me thinking thoughts because the actor that played Melissa played Steph, and hot chocolate boy ended up being Pete. IDK what thoughts I'm having, but I'm having them.

Jaime making props, without being asked, is so nice of her.

Omg, Jeff was sick too! That really sucks. The closest thing to a actually accident that would make us end the show was when we had a stage fall turning into a real fall because the actor was too dramatic. Damn theater kids!

Omg the megaphone stories are giving me flashback to the fucking piece of shit mics we had. Half of them would not actually work, one had to be constantly re adjusted and turned back on, the main girl's mic had way too much feedback, the other girl sang way too quiet and had a not great mic meaning you could never hear her, and for one performance, two of the actors somehow got mics mixed up and I had to spend so long switching channels to fix it. No one actually knows how it happened. I literally made jokes that someone must have walked the mic boxes under a ladder, opened a umbrella inside, and said Macbeth around them for how much of a pain they were.

Jeff despising the brain prop is great. Sometimes a prop is a stupid nightmare that you want to light on fire at the end.

What was Jeff doing to forget the main character's name? How did he land on Steve? He literally wrote some of the songs? I have so many questions.

Them not having the meteor prop until the opening day is terrifying to me, I would cry if that happened to me.

I want to reiterate my want to do tech, specifically lighting for this musical.

Ok that's all I have to say, I am going to go watch the musical again, bye babes, boys, and boomerangs

[lover-of-mine]

gg here

so this is going to be long

you and the people reading your blog need to understand something: the people shipping bt are mostly destiel, i don’t know how may of you have seen spn or ship destiel but this knowledge is important

when we got tommy kissing buck most people compared this to destiel, buck to dean and his bisexuality and the now diehard bt stans started comparing misha and lfjr saying how their characters even if supposed to be on the show just for a few episodes they were so loved by the fans that the screewriters decided to keep them and this really happened with misha/castiel but this character was added in a show where there wasn’t major ship (the only one was wincest but even you can understand how impossible was even the thought of canonizing a romantic relationship between two brothers) but mostly castiel was a brand new character while tommy has a past and not a very beautiful one so two different scenarios but that’s not all because they started comparing the parasocial relationship misha has with his fans with the one lfjr has with his stans

i don’t know how many of you were or are on twt since the start but pictures this:

we have lou this brand new actor for our little silly weewoo show he’s kissing ostark, thanks to tommy we have bi buck, people are celebrating, people want to see how this will play out but we still ship buddie we are just enjoying it (bree/kinarscoffee made a post saying how she was happy that tommy could help with buddie canon) then lfjr started interact with them: at the beginning he was shy and not so bold he was the one spilling the beans about tommy/eddie, he was the one telling how bt was a stepping stone for buddie and how tommy was aware that something was happening between buck and eddie (mind you at the time his cameos where 50$)

then he started seeing his fanbase grow, he started responding to hc, telling them if they liked his idea about the chin grab, talking about the sexy times between tommy and buck, he started telling sob stories about tommy, started sending videos on their discord about bt so they finally found the same thing they had with misha

they started contacting con organization to ask them to have lou because they wanted the m&g, the photo, cosplaying him, proposal in front of him dressed like buck and tommy (im not criticizing who wants to go to the con, i went to a spn one years ago but it’s not my thing so not a critique), being recognized by him (if you watch the video they post on tt you will see to how many con they went to see misha) and lfjr is the only one who could give them this kind of relationship because ostark, rg, aisha aren’t interested in cons especially ostark

then they started buying the famous LOUniform, a shirt he had in one of his pic, a limited edition just 500 pieces; they went to pride, to disneyword (making photo with disney characters and tagging lou)

they started interacting with his sister and she started interacting with them

they went so far to defend and protect him, they made video defending him, saying that he was just a baby (30yo) sharing funny memes and how everyone did it, they called queer ppl homophobe, called black and poc racist, they stomped on their beliefs for him

they got blocked by people, they got a bad reputation, they are hated and always treated like stupid, they aren’t acknowledged by ostark and now lfjr stopped being friends with them

so they payed a lot of money for him, they bought his shirt, they did so many things for him and now he is ignoring them so they are shocked how dare him act like this when they made him? when they did all of this for him? other are just chanting “his mental health his poverty mental health” like a justification for the fact that he isn’t playing with them anymore

Hello, love, when I tell you I read the word destiel and almost poured myself actual tea to sip while reading this, I'm not kidding, that first paragraph legit made me go "oh they're trying to emulate Misha" and then strapped in for a ride.

The thing is, I kinda get the Misha comparison, I was never in that deep in the supernatural fandom, but I did watch the show as it was airing until season 7 and adjacently followed for the rest of it, so the whole being brought in on a season after a strike, a shiny new love interest, someone else to try to interact with. But like you said, supernatural didn't have a established ship because you can't really make incest a thing, so Cas was a a breath of fresh air. And like, anything is more compelling than shipping literal incest. Cas brought in something the show didn't have. Tommy was never gonna be that, because we have Eddie and you can't really replace Eddie with Tommy. What happened with Misha is a once in a lifetime situation, you can't recreate that.

Also, I can't believe the cameos were 50$ when this madness started. But I do remember the initial interactions with him, the chin grab and stuff like. But damn, this was a ride from start to finish. But I feel like something clicked in my brain, they make sense to me now. I'm still speechless but...

[arceespinkgun]

Thank you for speaking up about the treatment jazz gets in this fandom! as a black fan it can get tiring seeing all the signs of stereotypical and racist fanon on a black character, and i love jazz so much. having these discussions is really necessary in fandom spaces

i think we should greatly appreciate jazz's nicer traits, since all fanon likes to do is amplify and create negative traits for him so he can seem as a "deeper" or "more edgy character, when that not him at all! like when people say jazz is an assassin, hes not! hes a special operations agent! and theres so little canon content of him actually killing others, even less in the context of him being an agent than as a soldier. instead people should look at his love for human culture and humanity as a whole, and the fact in the comics he explicitly refers to black jazz musicians, and how he has great people skills!

i do also like jazzprowl, but again so many of their content is just racist stereotypes pushed on jazz to prop up against prowl. i think their relationship could be really interesting to explore romantically and platonically. ive read the magnificent six story and all hail megatron, which i think show a little of what their relationship could have if explored them further

another funny but sad thing about most jazzprowl fics is that they seem to treat prowl as more of a minority by his "praxian" race/the fall of praxus (which is completely fanon) than jazz! its bewildering how fics coddle prowl so jazz can be his heroic bf and support him. ppl seem more comfortable discussing a completely made up race for a white character than the very real coding of a black character

You're very welcome and thank you so much for sharing your perspective! Yours is one of the voices that people should be listening to, and so I'm sorry and enraged that the fandom is so racist and unsafe for fans like you. Everything you say about Jazz's character here is so true and that's exactly how I feel about how he could be written, too. This is why I kept trying to center canon—the well-written parts, not the racist media—in this discussion. There's so much good stuff to explore if fans only look! And I hate it when fanon that's offensive and almost feels like misinformation tricks people into thinking things about Jazz are true when they're not. And like, even if Jazz was ever characterized in this offensive way in canon media... transformative works are transformative? Fans can and should focus on the good parts???

I knew it was possible that some fans could ship JazzProwl because they were best friends in some older canon media like in the stories you mention. I do think I've seen people very, very occasionally mention things from canon, but it's so damn rare. Your take makes sense (also, yay, another person who has read "The Magnificent Six!" That made me happy lol), and it's sad that racist fanon is so constant and is everywhere and has completely obscured anything that was ever canon. Like, hey fandom, you could just build on canon if you want this soooo bad. You are not completely helpless. The bar is deep IN the ground at this point.

Also, wow, poor Jazz. Prowl confides in him about Praxus being destroyed in the Dreamwave comics one (1) time and Jazz is doomed to 20+ years of racist fic that sidelines him .__.

[neptunescore]

k you asked for unpopular f1 opinions and idk if this even counts but i Do Not Like lando norris. i actively dislike him, actually. couldn't really tell you why, he's just really annoying. and that move with the fist pump during max's anthem at the canadian gp? not fucking cool. i also hate when people say shit like "omg he's so public school core" or "idk he just feels more authentic than the rest of them (drivers)" because most people didn't know he had money growing up. his dad is like a fucking billionaire (millionaire?) CEO like shut up. i just feel like he can't possibly be as nice as people think. also his win in miami had distinctly Weird Vibes. not necessarily bad, just Wrong. should not have happened. also that thing where he said "trump is someone you gotta have a lot of respect for" like no??? he's not??? he's a conservative right wing politician who was found guilty on all 34 counts in his hush money case. he's a white-collar criminal (the worst kind). he deserves no respect. shut up. it would be better to just not say anything at all. yeah.

I have had SO MANY asks on lando, but i shall keep responding😤.

No1. All the shit Lando has done. Ugh, dont even get me started on it, im just gonna link my old post bc im so done talking abt it.

No2. I don't hate lando, I'm not a lando 'hater', bc I feel like you can't really hate a person you have never met and don't know on a personal level. However, I do feel very strongly abt some of his actions, and I do think he should take accountability for shit he's done. Personally, I just don't like him that much, and so I stay away from his content and fans. If I see smthng funny he's done or see content abt him that I enjoy then I laugh and appreciate it, but recently he's just been irritating towards my beliefs and values, so I'm keeping my distance.

No3. I just wanna say, very gently, even if you dislike a driver, you shouldn't discredit their wins/ accomplishments bc in the end thats smthng they've earned, and it's literally their job, like for me, when I saw miami, I thought "good for him" and moved on. I did get really pissed abt his comments on trump tho, man really went and stained his first race win with all that shit.

No4. Ur point on the way ppl say, 'he's more authentic than the rest of the drivers'. Honestly, I've seen so many ppl have this opinion, and all I'm gonna say is: Every driver has a different pr strategy. Lando's whole strategy is being perceived as 'relateable' and 'quirky', and, by the looks of it, it's working really well. Obv we – as fans – will never know if he's genuinely like this in person or if it is just fully pr (same with all the other drivers), but from what's provided to us we're all free to make our own assumptions :]

I just feel like he can't possibly as nice as people think

I think, nonnie (and this is meant in the kindest way possible), assumptions like these are smthng we should avoid making. You don't know lando, and I don't know lando, so really we'll never know if he's truly as nice or not, and we shouldn't say stuff like this about ppl who've never actually done anything to be precieved that way. Like yes, we can talk abt how lando is ignorant and the type to either: 1. Not think bfr he speaks/ does smthng or 2. Has really bad political views and questionable morals (and if this option is fully confirmed, i will become a full hater, doesn't matter if hes nice or not). But what has he ever done that shows us he's not kind/ nice to his fans?

[march32nd]

a halfhearted defense of the gas leak year

aka hot take season four isn't all that bad or actually no okay it kinda is but in fairness a lot of the seeds are there okay.

season three utilizes chang way worse than any other season. imo. and changnesia is the second best chang arc following the original. IMO. I feel like they didn't know what to do with him after he became a spanish teacher and the whole dictator thing feels ,,, very loaded and also just not interesting or funny? it feels boring is what I'm saying. and I will be a changnesia lover until the day I die if changnesia has 10 fans I am one of them if changnesia has one fan it is me etc

and troy/britta started in season 3. and not even subtly? it was a full-on thing that got left for the season 4 writers to have no choice to pull off. and I know ppl feel differently about the troy/britta thing but I just feel like. ok unnecessary. yk? it made it worse and not better BUT that's not season 4's fault!!!

there are good episodes. once I stop thinking oh gasleak year I remember that a good chunk of my most referenced eps and most quoted lines irl are from season 4: delta cubes, britta's sophie b. hawkins dance, routine light switch check, etc? and this season obviously had the Herstory of Dance episode but also the Basic Human Anatomy body swap episode!!! which are two of my faves

it feels different from prev seasons yeah. but also so did season 3? so did season 2? I really feel like this show is unique in how distinct its seasons are in terms of tone and quality idk

and in context of where it's gonna go next... seasons 5 and 6 are good but they are nowhere near as good as the first three, yk? and atp I could say the same thing about season 4 that's all

and like I'm not dumb yk it was a definite quality drop and that just is what it is but it did a lot right. I'm not saying it shouldn't get a bad rep !!! a lot of the characterization undid development from seasons 1-3 and a lot of the episodes rely on gimmicks to a degree that feels cheap and also makes everything like that from previous seasons feel kinda cheap by association? and some of that damage wasn't ever undone

but I feel like. the reason a lot of that damage wasn't undone was laziness. and harmon arrogance like "oh well OBVIOUSLY I'm better so I don't even have to touch that" maybe??? you know??? like kinda riding on his own reputation or something. idk. i'm speculating!!! but by treating season 4 like so blatantly not worth an attempt at redemption and just picking up as if nothing had happened, I think the following seasons suffered!!! in a way they didn't need to!!! it would be DOABLE to recover the character development instead of continuing to flanderize them. it would be DOABLE to return to roots and remind the audience of the heart of the show and what it's about. seasons 5 and 6, especially season 5, feel a little spiteful to me. like underneath it all is a marking-my-territory feeling? and that isn't season 4's fault!!! no matter what problems there are with season 4 you can't deny that it is earnest and heartfelt and genuinely somebody doing their best to make the best thing possible. idk.

[maukiki1-but-cringefail]

YGESSSSS. NEW BSB ENJOYER FOUND. who is your favorite character if i may ask... i have like atleast 5 but kai is at the top i think. sometimes i think about this image and i'm like "my god what the fuck even is that". one of the guys of all time

“WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT” LMFAOOO no because thats exactly what my friend said when they saw yuriy KEDBJSBSGWJW. What is. Wrong with his eyebrows....looking like a creature…a bug with antannae perhaps….

BUT MY FAVORITE IS MAX‼️‼️‼️hes been my fav ever since i started watching it love him… my second favorite is kai probably though LOL. I can tell hes one of those fan favorite characters right🤔usually characters like him are… not a bad thing just an observation lol. Metal fight beyblade was the beyblade show i had known my entire life and was a big fan of so i wanted to see the other beyblade shows with it and for some reason i watched beyblade burst before bakuten shoot ????? Yeah that 7 season show i only liked the very first season of… the rest was so boring and for some reason i forced myself to watch it by using it as background noise😭

idk why i didnt give up and watch bakuten instead, took me too long lmfao. Th reason why i mentioned metal fight is that since i knew that show my entire life i had certain expectations on certain type of characters (ik bakuten came first but metal couldve been influenced by it and it was bcs there are similarities lol) (i mean king [from bakuten] looks almost identical to dynamis [from mfb] <- thats just one example) so i thought, while i was watching season 1, Kai Hiwatari was gonna be like Kyouya Tategami where hes with the team yes but doesnt see himself as a part of it and is there for himself only bcs hes a loner or whatever but then that thing at the end of the season happened he became a part of the team and the didnt have random unnecessary off screen character regression like kyouya did in the next 2 seasons (and also isnt an asshole abt it like when he left temporarily to battle takao in g revulotion he wasnt like “fuck you dumbass” like kyouya did basically 😭😭)….

That was so refreshing to see bcs thats not what i was expecting and thank god it exceeded my expectations 😭 thats why i keep saying kai is kyouya done right bcs he kinda is…. Though i find it funny when hes just standing in the background w his arms crossed or laying on the grass like damn bro wants to be cool so bad (not as cool as the frame of rei kon absolutely BALLING)

Said max is my favorite and talked about kai the entire time LOL no but he’s my fav i love that guy EXCEPT. the fact that. He likes mayonnaise… idgaf if its ur style mayonnaise is disgusting im disappointed in you max…..

I also like Yuriy who also seems to be a fan favorite from what ive seen which i expected but i like him in a way like, hes so funny to me. Bro walkin around with bug antannae and the worst posture youve ever seen. Why is he built like that. Fucking thing. Also big fan of the weird ass sht he does in g revulotion when doing special moves hes got CLAWS hell yeah. No bcs no one elses looks like dat when they do it⬇️ as a certified creature fan i can proudly confirm this, indeed, is one of the creature moments of all time.

⬆️i remember seeing this frame before watching the show and thinking what could possibly be the context behind this LMFAO . Shoutout to Rei kon for also being a creature big fan of the pointy ears and slit orange eyes (v force when i catch you v force)

I dont know peoples opinions of daichi but he seems like the type of character ppl might hate for being annoying but i like him bcs he reminds me of me and my brother when we were little (im the younger sibling) bcs every interaction between takao and daichi reminded me of us LMFAO 10/10 sibling dynamic (better than takaos actual brotha😬)

N lemme see if i have any kai screenies i took cauze i took a sht tonna screenshots

I was gonna capriin thwm but idk how to write inbetween them so im typing them here

First pic - already has a caption

Second pic - ths shit makes me laugh everytime im so glad people are not hesitant to resort to violence in this saga

Third pic - V force jumpscare

Fourth pic - what is he listening to . Do you guys think Kai Hiwatari would like Yuno Miles

Fifth pic - one…..one piece…..

Sixth pic - they forgot to colour teh pack of his hair lol

Seventh pic - no need for a caption. What is that

Last pic - he. Smirks like an animal. Idk how to explain it but, he smiles like how an animal or an ailen trying to do it for the first time would do it

I will read the manga soon i have physical copies of the first 4 volumes and ill find the rest on the net bcs bakuten media is so much easier to find that mfb is THANK GOD. I will also be looking up shitty 13 yr old amv s and yall better have sum real 2011 sht

[joculatrixster]

"ill admit i dont watch sos nor raft streams but im calling out ppl who r calling scott specifically abusive and ive literally never seen anyone as vilinized as scott in fics i can think off the top of my head 3 fics ive seen where scott is the vilian and portrayed as jimmys abuser which is NOT true for anyone u mentioned." You can't say Scott is the only one villainized in the same breath as admitting you haven't seen content where other CCs get villainized by the audience.

Many of the *exact same people* who criticize Scott have also come out with posts talking about how uncomfortable Sausage makes them, some of them specifically citing his behavior toward Jimmy in SOS. Of course, I can't say that's true for everyone in fandom who criticizes Scott, but in my experience people critical of Scott are critical of others, too, regardless of their sexuality. Saying the criticism is fueled by homophobia doesn't track when the people criticizing Scott are also criticizing straight CCs/characters for very similar things.

Everyone has a different fandom experience based on what circles/fan archives/discussion boards they're on, and even on the same site people can have different experiences because of stuff like algorithms and who you're following. IIRC I have seen a fic where Grian, Jimmy, Joel and Lizzie were all siblings and Lizzie called out Grian and Joel for not being good brothers to Jimmy, while the only fic I've seen with Scott being "villainized" was a short ficlet where he did something small out of jealousy that didn't have any long term effects. I have actually gone *looking* for toxic FH fanfic and not found any. (I like complicated messy relationship story lines, so I feel like toxic FH in fic form would be fun to read.) Obviously this has not been your experience, but you seem to be treating your fandom experience as if it's the same for everyone else, which it's not.

its nnot just my experience when multiple multiple ppl have spoken out about how prominent it is specifically for scott again if its just a small issue id understand but the normalization is insane, ive seen a fic where scott turns jimmy into his pet doll and he needs to be saved from his clutches. ive read a gic where scott kills pearl and wants to destroy the entire world and has jimmy as his pet who he promised to keep as long as he stayed uner his thumb. ive read a fic where scott just leaves jimmy at the alter and pearl hunts him down and lashes out violently at him and we r meant to side w pearl for attacking him bc he didnt feel bad for poor jimmy. these were not obscure fics or small fics. u seem to assume an issue others r clearly pointing out theyve seen way more than others is only something some fridnge guy is complaining about instead of perhaps something UVE missed hm? uve seen 1 fic where joel and grian r kinda shitty to jimmy and get called out ive read multiple fics where scott breaks down jimmy as a person and needs to be saved from him, ive seen multiple posts calling irl scott smajor am abuser bc of one clip, ive seen pll say jimmy deadass is uncomfortable w FH and doesnt like scott which is just weird ass behavior. yes sausage gets flack i belive this but i haven't seen a shit ton of fics making sausage break jimmy soan mentally then get killed or punished in the end for being an irredeemable abuser. ive seen multiple of that for scott or just seeing scott in general in a veryyy negative light which is clearly due to an unfavorable interpretation of his character. which is fine, but name three fics where grian is intpreted that unfavorably w over 100 kueos. no seriously show me the fics where grian dies in the 3nd and its a thing everyone is happy about in the ficand they do not mourn him at all bc they hated him. go on!

its funny how ur orignal anon nitpicked my post and ur reply again nitpicks one part of a wider post as if the point i said was even what ur replyin to, im talking fandom space but even if i wasnt im talking life series fandom while i do mention oli thats just to ponnt out that One scott clip is not Just a scott thing, girl. vilinized in life series aka what i tagged, dont be stupid here its literally just making u look stupid 😭i used grian as an example bc hes someone who acts similar in the space i was criticizing and not sausage bc i am aware things may be different in a DIFFERENT context. ur majorlyyyy derialing and not rlly proving me wrong ur just proving that u dont rlly get what im saying which is fine but also all ur points r just...not disproving anything l. ur example is 1 grian and joel being criticized in one(1) fic(which is not what vilianized even means dude but hey ill give u this u did find one somewhat grian neg fic!) and 2 a guy not even in the fandom i tagged. girl...

[visionthefox]

Sams Earth

I guess is a rant? but im getting a bit bothered? with how Earth fans act like we, those who dont like her, just hate woman? or any famale character? and,ok, yes! yes yes! SOME people are way too rude, way too hatefull over an OC in a RP channel.. some need to calm tf down.. but putting everyone in the same bag is tiring me..why I dont like her? short: -bad way to introduce your new character- not natural- unlike the last 2. -her way to be showed was -for some cute- funny- yet soon annoying as she being unable to read the room was not fun to see..specially with KC. -she did NOT asked how the others felt about being caller brothers by a complete stanger. by that point. -This is personal - very personal - but she cannot be "the person with emotional intelligence/ready and prepared to give therapy" at the same time that she is not able to understand the actions of others, nor read the room still .

(Like someone who dreams of being a therapist? It's very very VERY bad. In fact - it's a rule! that therapists CANNOT do the job for the family. The family bond creates a preconception on both sides that nullifies the effectiveness of the therapy)

yet the fans act like we all just hate her just to hate her, and "no one else got this level of hate!" sorry? BM wasnt liked until he showed to be a chaotic evil one and even so. I BET there's ppl who dont like him. The dislike ppl felt was different.. one friend of mine did find her annoying, yet also found her to be stone in the way for Sun's development! but we both can agree on something. we dont hate her because she is a famale character. We dislike her early use. rn she is ok.in my eyes. I dont hate her- I get her character- I just never liked how she acted at SOME moments. pushy. is the words I give her. pushy. and once again. she can be a male for all I care- KC is also on my list as "wasted potential".old Moon is the "idiot" - New Moon? is also staring to be disliked.. so is not her "gender" is her use.she had fans WISHING for her- she was taken with love even with how terrible her fist intro was..(stolen models are NOT ok to use!) idk I felt like saying this out loud im getting a bit annoyed with some fans. but I guess is how we word ourself that can trigger her fans.. so I guess is 50-50. idk, can yall tell me if Im actually wrong here?

[let-us-cultivate-our-garden]

Hey, I stumbled across your last post addressing the toh blog critiquing fans of belos and how they engage with the show and i'd like to put my 2 cents in as an au creator who has belos featured in my aus.

When I made arofam, I was just goofing around, it was before s2 officially aired and I thought at work one day "oh, belos and this gg kid look like parallels to luz and eda, wouldn't an au swapping them be funny?". I made that au based solely on that, and everything after that was straight up just me trying to work around everything the show was throwing at me and try and adapt it in the au. It became more emotional with time, but it wasn't built on a foundation of trying to make his canon self less bad nor excuse anything he did. (Undoubtedly that goofy au just made me more invested in those characters over time).

Like we didn't even know belos's plans, his abuse of the ggs, his brother, nothing, when I made the au. The show really had to make me work to make belos likable in my au after that.

I say this because it's why it's wrong to always make assumptions about ppl based on what they create or are engaged in. You don't have to like the content yourself, but there's a variety of reasons ppl make aus with philip in a prominent role. Some wanna explore him in unique ways that canon can't, some are intrigued by his backstory and wanna play with that, and some are like me who just woke up one day and thought " Ok, but what if we did a silly with him?".

It would be wrong to categorize everyone into one box, with the same ideals and same opinions. Not everyone will have the same draws but assuming the worst of a fan who likes to play with the main antagonist in noncanon work or personally have different opinions on his execution in the show is extremely judgemental and hurtful because a lot of these fans are just having fun and have very little malicious intent.

If you have criticism of the work and wanna kindly address it to the creator, then sure, they might be allowed to give their opinions on where they were coming from while they're at it in case the work was misinterpreted.

But you can genuinely hurt ppl and creators by throwing them under a " bad person" label without allowing yourself to understand them or their work and why they made the choices they did.

I guess the point I'm making here is, fans engage with the media they like for a number of reasons, if you're going to make accusations on them, at least have clear solid reasons rather then basing it on pure assumptions based on work that might not even really be that deep in the first place or even just the comments of a few fans.

If they're being purposely malicious and awful then sure.

But sometimes it's really not that deep, some ppl just wake up one day and wanna imagine a swap au with belos or wanted a cooler death.

People shouldn't be crucified online for that.

100% agree with you there! I've stated before that this fandom has a tendency to connect a person's morality to the type of media they consume or how they engage with it. It's really unsettling, tbh.

You don't like AUs that redeem Belos? Or make him a goofy uncle? Or make Caleb the evil emperor?

Then don't read them. You're not the target audience.

In other words...

I hope any and all creators with a Belos AU aren't discouraged because some ninny on the net, who thinks they're the arbiter of social justice, got mad because they decided to have fun with a fictional character.

Fandom is not activism.

Just chill and let people put the old man in a dress.

[reilleclan-blog]

The fact Sasuke Uchiha was equivalent to a school ooter and ALOT of ppl saying he was right is very hilarious. (Also I'm a fan of Sasuke I just hated the shippuden part of him cause he was sounding so fucking dumb when he's fighting Naruto)

Sasuke was so scared of love that he wanted to kill his "bff" over it cause Naruto never stopped loving him. "Never gave up on him" or "cut him off" the most love Sasuke ever felt was with Naruto that's why he was constantly reminded of his family and Itachi when he was with Naruto. Sasuke had to hate Itachi so he could be able to redeem his family so he was alone but Naruto would remind him of the good and the bad of what happened with his family . That's why he was so adamant on killing Naruto. He wanted to be fully alone cause// Sasuke was disguising his fear of love with the idea that he wanted to avenge Itachi and shit but to be fair Sasuke was lied to his whole life so I still understand why he went crazy asf and wanted to kill danzo but afterward he had to direct his anger towards something else so it was towards the leaf village. (He eliminated his brother's biggest enemy but he still chose to fight the leaf// that turned into him wanting to become "hokage")

Also to pivot back to the topic of Sasuke wanting to become the "most hated" or "take on all the hate" he was essentially trying to make himself into the next Madara and we see how that was turning out cause he was literally living it. Becoming the most hated is pointless when u are already surrounded by ppl that are trying to love u, but Sasuke again was terrified of it it's as if he thought he couldn't deserve that love as well. Like in the animation he is pained his face he makes trying to "not believe" Naruto and believe he could be back in the good graces of the leaf or feel loved like Naruto keeps telling him.

And then when they think they are both dead after their big fight , Sasuke looks and acts relieved that him and Naruto are together but dead. Naruto was the one freaking out about being dead while Sasuke isn't even trying to figure it out he's just chillin with Naruto lol. In a way, when he thought they were both dead Sasuke seemed like he was missing Naruto once he vanished (i guess when Naruto woke up)

Also Sasuke always freaks the fuck out everytime Naruto basically says "I WONT STOP LOVING U" and Sasuke is just like "PLEASE STOP LOVING ME LET ME BE ALONE" that's basically what it was. Platonic or romantic love I like the ideas of both. I have no preference towards shipping. Ship, laugh love.

Another thing I'm gonna say is so many ppl hate Sakura either they are misogynistic or they think she's a terrible character. 1) most of the shit ppl hated Sakura for was literally the SAME SHIT Naruto and or Sasuke had done in the show but no one cared when them two did said thing.

2) Sakura was never ever planning to kill Sasuke she would never have it in her to ever do that to him. Literally the first time Sasuke is leaving the leaf village Sakura is trying to say anything to make him stay and since she knows he's not gonna stay she just tells him "let me come with u" and it's like Sakura was smitten with love(cough cough* like Naruto). And funny enough ppl love to bring up how Sasuke found her annoying but he constantly said the same shit about Naruto ... why b/c they BOTH LOVED SASUKE. They both loved Sasuke just in very different ways and ppl don't talk about it at all.

ppl talk about how Sakura and Naruto both wanted Sasuke back but never notice how they show their love so differently. Sakura could never fight Sasuke, Naruto was ready to fight Sasuke no matter the cause NARUTO STATES THAT HE WOULD BREAK EVERY BONE IN SASUKES BODY IF IT MEANT HE WOULD DRAG HIM BACK TO THE LEAF VILLAGE . Sakura would've just either let him kill her or joined in b/c she just loved him that much.

Anyways um yeah that's it I guess if u get mad over this imma just block u idc. I just wanna post about my hyperfixation don't dtm please also I'm surprised ppl don't talk about Sasuke being in confinement. Lol also Sasuke is neurodivergent 😴

[rosesradio]

may i ask why ppl hate caleo so much? I'm reading ToA rn so idk if it's based on stuff that happens there, but in HoO I didn't really catch anything that would make it this "don't touch with a ten foot pole" ship, yk?

/gen

Hi !! Thanks for sending this in. I feel like I and others have kinda gone through some things in the anti-caleo tag, but I'm gonna go through some of the reasons with as much textual evidence and objectivity as possible. (minus my inevitable unorganized rambles, they're contextually relevant, stop looking at me--)

That being said, this is completely a matter of opinion, as all shipping is. I don't mean to say that you are "allowed" to ship or that you're "stupid" for shipping xyz, I couldn't care less what you ship--let's all just be nice to each other.

That being said, let's start with the two most common reasons why most people dislike caleo:

1.) the age gap

2.) their "bickering to lovers" dynamic is not written well/they seem to dislike each other/etc

The easier one to start with would be the age gap. Now (warnings for rent-lowering gunshots around my blog), I meant what I said when I said I don't care about ships. Most of my beloved mutuals ship the nastiest shit imaginable, and I am very anti-censorship (but that's several other posts). I generally have preferences for healthy ships when it comes to a Fluffy Endgame (dark fics with toxic ships are different to me).

That being said, I don't typically enjoy ships with a large age gap, and most other people find them unappealing as well. I could be persuaded with some (nipollo and rachel/apollo, i'm looking at you), but caleo just kinda grosses me out in this regard, probably due to other aspects of their relationship.

(Some people say she's "mentally fifteen", but I don't really buy that--if she were like a faerie or something, maybe, but I see her more as Edward in Twilight--looks young but has wisdom beyond her years. There's no definitive answer on this so it's not something I would like to debate (none of this is lol) but I thought I would mention it anyways.)

Although your question is about ToA, I'm only going to cover HoH through the first ToA book, because I'm still reading through the ToA books (though I know the big spoilers). I know caleo takes on a bigger role in the second book so i might come back and do a part two to uh...complain about their dynamic more? lol

so, without further ado--

The House of Hades

So, this is the first impression we get of Calypso from Leo's perspective--the highlights to keep this from being 1 million years long (it still will be lol)--

"She looked maybe fifteen, about Leo's age, and, sure, she was pretty; but with that angry expression on herface she reminded Leo of every popular girl in every school he'd ever attended—the ones who made fun of him, gossiped a lot, thought they were so superior, and basically did everything they could tomake his life miserable.Leo disliked her instantly.

---

The girl clenched her fists. Leo was pretty sure she was going to march down the crater and punch him in the face.

---

"Show yourself!" the girl yelled at the sky, completely ignoring Leo. "It's not bad enough I am exiled? It's not bad enough you take away the few good heroes I'm allowed to meet? You think it's funny to send me this—this charbroiled runt of a boy to ruin my tranquility? This is NOT FUNNY! Take him back!""

--pg 213 of The House of Hades pdf.

Now, keeping in mind that I read this for the first time at 13 and he was my book boyfriend (Or Whatever), I was not a fan of this, but even now that I've grown out of that, this still rings unfavorable to me.

He compares her to his bullies, the ones who made fun of him and created insecurities within him. And, making no effort to clear her name from this association, what is one of the first things she does? Screams at the gods for sending someone so conventionally unattractive. One of Leo's biggest insecurities in the books is not being as conventionally attractive or built as the other guys in the seven. One of his other insecurities is not having a girlfriend when everyone else is coupled up. So the solution is not to have him learn self-love and/or the love of friends, but to instead give him a girlfriend--the build-up time of which is short and intense. Not only that, but his love interest insults one of his biggest insecurities.

We're off to a great start.

Of course, I can't really blame Calypso for being pissed about the wreckage and about being sent another hero instead of being freed from the island. I would be pretty pissed, too, but she still treats him pretty badly, seemingly because he's not the "right" hero.

(For this next bit I am going through their time together in House of Hades and just noting anything that rings as a red flag to me--which is not a stretch as it's pretty much every other line lol. The brackets [] add context for dialogue, the parentheses () is my commentary, though most of these speak for themselves imo)

""Oh-gee-gee-ah." The girl pronounced it slowly, as if Leo were five years old.

---

She looked like she was about to answer but stopped herself. "It doesn't matter. You'll be gone soon. You're obviously a mistake."

That was harsh, Leo thought.He'd spent enough time thinking he was a mistake—as a demigod, on this quest, in life in general. He didn't need a random crazy goddess reinforcing the idea

---

"What am I supposed to do, then? Sit in the sand dunes until I die?" [Leo asked]

"That would be fine...." The girl threw down her trowel and cursed at the sky. "Except I suppose he can't die here, can he? Zeus! This is not funny!"

---

She looked the same age as him, but he wondered how old she really was. (age gap thing, delicious!)

---

"Would you be sweet," [Calypso said], "if they laughed at you by sending another hero, but a hero who looked like—like you?"

---

"Three thousand." Leo's mouth felt tingly, like he'd just eaten Pop Rocks. "Uh, you look good for three thousand."

---

"And now...the worst insult of all. The gods mock me by sending you." [Calypso said]

Anger bubbled in Leo's stomach.Yeah, typical. If Jason were here, Calypso would fall all over him. She'd beg him to stay, but he'd be all noble about returning to his duties, and he'd leave Calypso brokenhearted. That magic raft would totally arrive for him. (heartbreaking to hear about leo's insecurities but also...he is so gay for jason jdskjfs--)

But Leo? He was the annoying guest she couldn't get rid of. She'd never fall for him, because she was totally out of his league.

---

Despite the gifts, Calypso obviously didn't want to see him. One time he poked his head inside the cave and she freaked out, yelling and throwing pots at his head. (how to treat an abuse survivor 101)

Yeah, she was definitely on Team Leo. (this honestly just reminds me of the Echo scene and, honestly, I'd ship him with Echo Big Time over calypso)

He ended up pitching a more permanent camp near the footpath, where the beach met the hills.That way he was close enough to pick up his meals, but Calypso didn't have to see him and go into a pot-throwing rage.

---

"They are completely fireproof," Calypso promised. "They'll stay clean and expand to fit you,should you ever become less scrawny." (the prev part about her repairing the clothes was actually sweet in a platonic way...could have gone without the body-shaming !)

---

Then he remembered that this annoying fifteen-year-old girl was actually the immortal daughter of a Titan."

--pages 214-227 of The House of Hades pdf

Now, at this point I'll say that their relationship actually becomes quite sweet once they get past the frankly horrible section of time where they want each other to die. They're both lonely, they come to some understanding...I suppose this is a matter of opinion, but the romance aspect does feel forced. Time is different in Ogygia so it's hard to say how long Leo was there, if I were to estimate I'd say 3 weeks, but given that it's like 19 pages (and the text is larger on the pdf copy lol), it does feel rushed. Man do I wish they went for the platonic angle, but Richard could never.

The Blood of Olympus

Everyone's favorite book! lmao.

Now that our lovebirds are in Lovebird Territory (i guess), the amount of toxicity dwindles, but let's bite:

"'Sit tight, Sunshine,' he told Calypso's picture. 'I'll get back to you, just like I promised.'

Leo could imagine her response: 'I am not waiting for you, Leo Valdez. I am not in love with you.And I certainly don't believe your foolish promises!' The thought made him smile. (I guess this is supposed to be sarcastic, but way to reintroduce the concept of her really not liking him?)"

--pg 64 of The Blood of Olympus pdf

So, most of this book has mentions of Calypso from Leo's pov, and I gotta say (forgetting entirely that this doc is supposed to at least try to be subjective)...they neutered my boy. I often don't reread past MoA because of the caleo content, though what glimpses I've seen shows that his pov has experienced a massive shift. I think having so little page time and such an intense relationship buildup causes some readers to dislike how fundamentally she alters Leo's pov.

Additionally, I've seen some posts about Leo's suicide ideation. That is not something I want to go in depth about on this post, but I did want to draw attention to this excerpt I caught:

"Now the Argo II was approaching the end of its voyage. Leo's whole life – his childhood with Tía Callida; his mother's death in that warehouse fire; his years as a foster kid; his months at Camp Half-Blood with Jason and Piper – all of it would culminate tomorrow morning in one final battle.

He opened the access panel. Festus's voice creaked over the intercom.

'Yeah, buddy,' Leo agreed. 'It's time.'

More creaking.

'I know,' Leo said. 'Together till the end?'

Festus squeaked affirmatively.

Leo checked the ancient bronze astrolabe, which was now fitted with the crystal from Ogygia. Leo could only hope it would work.

'I will get back to you, Calypso,' he muttered. 'I promised on the River Styx.'

He flipped a switch and brought the navigation device online. He set the timer for twenty-four hours.

Finally he opened the engine's ventilator line and pushed inside the vial of the physician's cure. It disappeared into the veins of the ship with a decisive thunk.

'Too late to turn back now,' Leo said.

He curled on the floor and closed his eyes, determined to enjoy the familiar hum of the engine for one last night."

--pg 224 of The Blood of Olympus pdf

I'm not going to draw any definitive conclusions on the subtext of this or his plan with the physician's cure, but I will say Leo definitely needs therapy and the support of his friends over his want of a girlfriend. (And I'd say this regardless of ships--even if it were my beloved valdangelo. If Leo's mental health isn't addressed, it just makes it seem like a lazy fix-all)

I'm not going to pretend to be the best writer or understand character arcs better than our good friend Richard, but I think one of the reasons why Leo's character arc failed in this final installment is that Leo got what he wanted instead of what he needed. The best character arcs will display what a character wants, but by the end of the journey, a character will realize what they really need.

For example, in Gravity Falls (great show btw), towards the end of the series, Mabel wants to stay in a magical bubble created as a trick by Bill Cipher so she can stay in Gravity Falls forever. In the end, however, she realizes that what she really needs is to go back home to California with her brother, where they can get through high school with the support of each other.

If Leo had undergone an arc in which he really wants a girlfriend, but later realizes he needs to love himself first, that would have been really great and nice for kids to see that they don't need a significant other to make them whole.

Additionally--surprisingly--there were no glaring red flags for the rest of this book. They have a general vibe of "she doesn't really like him and he's a silly little guy" that I feel like is just rick pulling a "can I copy your homework?" with percabeth but it came out Wrong, but that's a matter of opinion.

ToA: The Hidden Oracle

""Here you go." Leo handed her a glass of lemonade. His expression seemed darker and more anxious, as if...Ah, of course. Leo had rescued Calypso from her prison island. In doing so, Calypso had lost her powers. Leo felt responsible."

--pg 239 of The Hidden Oracle pdf

This seems like something they'd have to work through, which is possible, but also a very intense thing to put on a relationship between an already traumatized 16 year old (and his over 3000 year old girlfriend, etc.) I suppose if this was written through in a thoughtful way I'd understand, but it's kind of one of those things that makes me look at them and go...realistically, at best I see them lasting 6 months to a year.

(tbh a lot of the ships outside of percabeth don't seem to have that...well, percabeth longevity--i mean just look at how jiper broke up. not that Richard would break caleo up atp, of course...unless...)

Final Thoughts (unless I return after finishing ToA but no promises)

And so, we conclude. I think I learned some stuff by revisiting canon instead of just remaining amongst online fandom & my memory of canon. Honestly, I can see why people would like this ship--I still hate it the most out of any pjo ship, but I gotta admit it had its sweet moments. Just as I pointed out red flags and had opinions stated as subjective, other people could point out what they consider green flags and why they think the ship is great.

To conclude (my English teachers quaking in their boots rn), myself and other caleo haters dislike the ship due to the age difference, the rushed nature, and the enemies to lovers dynamic being written in a way that ultimately gives the energy that our love birds do not like each other. I hope this dive into the foundation of their relationship clarifies some of these things for you, and thanks for the ask!