#which makes me think Clover didn't have a logical plan

[profounddefendorcrusade-blog]

Clover's personality (in-depth)

This thing turned out way longer than intended. As promised, I wrote my opinions in regards to Clover's mbti; I also wanted to include the enneagram but figured it would be too much, so I'll do that separaretly. For those who wanna get straight to the point, just scroll to the end of the post for a pic of the functions I think Clover has. But if you want more details, read the whole thing. Probably not many people will wanna do that, but I had fun, lol. Please excuse me for nerding out

Analysis

Even before they got into the Underground, Clover thought to themselves "Ok, this is a dangerous mountain and I ain't coming back, I'm probably gonna die and therefore not live to see the rest of my life play out BUT I'm gonna follow my values anyway. They're worth the risk." To me, right off the bat, that's Fi over Ti (aka inner values and morals over inner facts and logic).

I've done some research on this stuff and found out how "Fi knows the value of something not by analyzing it but by feeling it deep inside themselves that it is how it should be" Ti has to be as objective as possible, Fi doesn't. So I sat down and thought about how exactly Clover approached situations.

I feel like their main reasoning for being in the Underground were their inner values and beliefs of finding out what happened to the children. That's why I'd say they're an introvert rather than an extrovert (it's not because they're quiet and reserved, although they are, but because Clover's inner world affects their outer world). Now, both Ti and Fi look inward, and those inner thoughts and feelings affect how they interact with the external world. The real question is: is Clover objective enough to be considered a dominant Ti user?

We can see in the Vengeance route that Clover is stubborn with their beliefs and refuses to look at things from a more... logical POV: "Asgore killed five humans. Is it fair to wipe out every other monster in my way who gives me even the slightest reason to do it?" Martlet was the only exception because she was the only one who had tried to be nice and understanding. Clover's dark side is that they're tunnel-visioned and see morality as black and white (don't look deeper as to WHY the monsters do what they do), and blindly follow their own beliefs over what objectively makes sense. Just like Ceroba, who I'm positive is a feeler (she only considers how she felt about Chujin and not how skilled of an engineer he actually was, even when there's clear proof he wasn't the best at his job). 

Objectively, it's not fair to kill so many monsters after only five humans were killed. If Clover wanted fair vengeance, they would have stopped after five monsters were killed. But no. According to Clover's own logic, everyone morally imperfect, everyone who's hurt them, who tried to hurt them, or messed up somehow, must die. So, Clover isn't thinking about what makes sense; they're thinking about what makes sense to THEM, and stubbornly hold onto that till the end (again, like Ceroba), even after Martlet's warnings. She says how the Royal Guard will be after them.

The logical (T) thing to do would be to STOP before things become even messier, but once again, no. Clover doesn't care about the consequences, only fulfilling their mission that is driven by their own set of values. No matter which route you choose, you will be presented with Clover's own version of what "justice" means. It's not the objective truth, it's not what's the logical thing to do; they follow their own framework based on their (our) choices.

"If unhealthy INFPs are dealing with threatened values or viewpoints that oppose their own, they can go the other way and imagine that others are all corrupt, thinking badly of them, and deluded. They may see themselves as the only people who see “the truth”, or the only people who really care to make a difference in the world. They can become especially harsh and critical of others and take on a martyr role, gradually secluding themselves from other people". - this feels like geno Clover; they thought they were the hero but they were playing the villain all along

Now that I think about it, the logical thing to do, the one that makes the most sense, would be never to have entered Mt. Ebott in the first place. And if vengeance was what Clover wanted to do, it is fair and makes objective sense to kill only five monsters (since that's how many humans died). But as explained, Clover didn't follow that logical conclusion, but rather their own twisted sense of justice. The same goes for neutral. It's Clover who chooses who gets to live and who gets to die based on their own beliefs and feelings, which are not backed up by facts. Everything they do they do because they themselves feel like it should be done. They are the one who decide who gets to live and who doesn't based on their own opinion/how severe they think the misdeed of the final boss is. This counts for the regular monsters who attack them, too; again, THEIR own subjective decision.

For example, they might see Dalv's actions as acceptable/forgiveable and spare him, but not Starlo's and kill him. Objectively, both characters are messy in their own way, but Clover gets to be the "judge" and decide their fate, not objectively looking at the situation, but subjectively. In short, according to them, Dalv may deserve to live, but not Starlo. 

And even if they're a dominant Ti user, which I don't think they are, Clover is more past and future-oriented than present-oriented (N over S). As mentioned, they thought about how much they'd risk by going down Mt. Ebott (potentially dying, and definitely never seeing the surface ever again, or their family) but they followed their heart's desires; to them, morals and ethics (their own morals and ethics) were more important than what the more logical thing to do was (stay on the surface where it's safe).

In other words, they could already "predict" what would happen in the future, while in the present moment (the beginning of the journey).

And right before sacrificing their soul in pacifist, they think about how their death would affect ALL the monsters in the future, whether they had directly met and befriended them or not, even though they wouldn't be there to see it.

Clover seems to be able to easily move between the past, present and future, unlike sensors, who are mainly in the present moment (this is what I've heard somewhere at some point and remembered it, dunno how true it is). They can easily recall the past, and what they remember are things that moved them on the inside.

I've heard some of my friends say that Clover's character arc was to become a kinder person (develop their Fe), which, honestly, I don't think is the case. They simply acted on their inner views of what justice truly means, without further analyzing whatever they believed justice to be.

In pacifist, they're naturally selfless and kind and forgiving: a bit of a prankster, but they're one of "the best souls" according to Martlet. Just look at the ACT options that they used to befriend monsters. Quietly listens to Decibat, offers Dalv a handshake (and friendship), easily forgives Martlet, Starlo, and even Ceroba (+ gives her a hug), endures so many hardships yet keeps their heart pure and selfless. 

They were always driven by something bigger than themselves (like Chujin, who I also think is a N user).

ISTPs are more adventurous and independent and flexible and focused on current problems in the present moment; Clover has been future-oriented from the start; they depended on Toriel to take care of them, and didn't try to immediately "adapt" to the monster world. Their 1st reaction was to stay safe and cozy. ESTJs (yeah, at some point I thought Clover could be one) are more "ruthless" in their pursuits, they "force" others to adopt their inner values. Clover doesn't do this in any route; they simply act upon their own beliefs, but aren't demanding that other monsters to have those same beliefs.

That's why I think they're an INFP.

Functions

Fi (dominant) – "If something goes against their moral code, they will not go through with it." It went against Clover’s moral code to spare monsters in genocide and abort the mission, so they didn’t, regardless of Martlet’s warnings.

"Fi dominants are inclined to speak up against beliefs or actions that go against their personal values or express disapproval of certain behaviors." I can't find the screenshot, but in the Mines, if you interact with the character who's in the same room as one of the puzzles, Clover will find out how that character pulled a prank on that guy who later got a promotion in the pacifist end credits (I need to reply the game to find the screenshot). But basically Clover was upset that their own morals weren't met and gave them a "disapproving look" or smth

"Ti dominants most often feel compelled to speak out when people are acting inconsistent (ie: contradicting themselves) or when people are being illogical from the Ti user’s perspective." I think Clover reacted to the above situation as a Fi user

"Unlike Fe users, Fi users are very blunt and direct. Fi and Te creates a person who is brutally honest about their opinions and feelings. If they don’t like a person, they will let that person know." Not a person in this case, but an example of this are the options we get for Martlet's questionnaire. Clover will have no problem honestly giving her the lowest scores for both questions; we also also get the chance to honestly tell Ceroba that we're not into Starlo's training. There are these cases where they're direct as well:

...and blunt:

they would have given at least a smile or a thumbs up, but no, their honest opinion is their honest opinion

"They appear cold and withdrawn, but tend to warm up as they get to know a person."

Ne (auxiliary) – "Ne views a situation from multiple angles and motivations" I feel like this is best seen in pacifist; this is exactly why Clover decided to give up their soul in the end; they saw all the motivations of the monsters, from many different angles. On the flip side, in the vengeance route, it’s the complete opposite situation: Clover only looks at things from their own pov, completely disregarding others. That’s the thing about the INFP dark side: INFPs become "disillusioned or stuck in their ways." This 100% describes Clover at their worst: stuck in their ways is already explained, while we can say they were disillusioned when even Martlet turned against them/gave up on them (in Genocide). That was enough of a reason for Clover not to feel bad about finishing her off. They never liked her, but they definitely liked her more than anyone else, so I’d say it counts.

"Creative, open-minded, and able to think outside the box" We can say Clover’s creative when they build Axis’ robot companion, solved the two puzzles in the Mines, they’re also most likely into role-playing just like Starlo, based on their clothes (and they seemed into the whole larping thing with him), and how they seem to be into drawing; open-minded, definitely (Clover with everyone; the pacifist route in a nutshell); able to think outside the box (this goes hand in hand with them being creative: I forgot to mention the many creative ways they found to befriend monsters)

"Ne lives in the present like Se does but makes connections to past and future." Imo, this is exactly what Clover does (their sacrifice in the future, and all the things other monsters had said to them in the past; however, they DO interact with the present world at the same time. This is what I meant when I mentioned how they "jump from and connect all 3")

Si (tertiary) – "happy in their comfort zone" Is this Clover? Yeah. Initially, this was their "default" reaction/behavior: with Toriel. They subconsciously became more independent thanks to good old Flowey. As I said, their values led them to take the risk and come into the Underground in the first place, not adventure/excitement (the way I see it). Were they also seeking the truth? Yeah again, they wanted to know the truth behind the whole situation, but I think it had more to do with how they had found the fact that no other humans bothered to look for the kids immoral.

"Si users may draw on their past experiences to guide their present actions and decisions" Example, how the detailed lines they remembered everyone said in true pacifist, influenced them to make the decision to die in the present moment. Or when they asked Ceroba if she would date Starlo, after hearing and remembering Crestina mention his crush on her beforehand, wanting to set them up.

"Si users have a strong memory for past experiences and details" Yep, explained above. Also, dunno if this counts as noticing details, but we can make them beat the Shufflers’ game with ease.

"Si users are typically practical and realistic in their approach to solving problems" The Snowdin mini-quests come to mind (although they use past information here too to figure out what each character needs to be helped). Also, how they fixed the elevator by using a pickaxe (most practical & realistic choice). They’re also pretty rational while dealing with Guardener, and in general, while dealing with enemies.

Te (inferior) – I guess this is why I suspected they could be an ESTJ.

"seen as leaders" By everyone.

"Come up with ideas quickly" Pretty much throughout the game. They’re more low-key about this than ESTJs though.

"Ruthlss and domineering" This is them in vengeance route

"Extraverted Thinkers recognize the emotional content, but then they set it aside to focus on the facts" I feel like this inferior function of theirs is mostly seen in flawed pacifist. They recognized Ceroba’s emotional situation, but chose to be fair and just instead.

"Te users are logical" Recognizing the dangers of the Underground and deciding to stay with Toriel. We can also say it makes sense that Clover attacked those who attacked them first, and finished Ceroba off (Te is what is objective, but from the external world)

"Though they are generally free spirits, they like to have a certain order in their lives. They do enjoy structure, just as long as it does not intrude with their feelings/morals/ethics/etc. They like to be the ones to create the structure, not to have the structure to be created for them."  Vengeance route and Clover’s "mission" come to mind. Basically, the structure is that, whoever Clover sees as morally flawed, gets to die. And they stick to it

tl;dr this picture pretty much explains the way I see Clover's functions in a nutshell ↓

[lawbin-archive]

Hi, in your opinioni why Oda gave Robin and Law the same Dream?

Hi, first question hehe! :D

With my delulu mind, of course I will say is to let them develop feelings while pursuing their dream, get married after finding one piece and live happily forever the end.

Ok let's be more rational lol.

I read a theory that Law will sacrifice his life for Robin and let her fulfill their dream. To be honest, if I really think logically, there is a chance this might happen but I think is under one condition - Law & Robin be canon romantically before the sacrifice happen.

Even they have the same dream now, they are at most - friends and Law has declared that "They are enemies next time they meet" so if Law sacrifice for Robin, the reasoning is really thin to me. Like why would he do that for "his enemy"? Just because they have the same dream? Do Law trust Robin so much now he can put his life and dream on her? Just because she can read poneglyph? Is he going to sacrifice for Pudding or Sukiyaki too? I just think their bonding *as shown on screen now*, is not enough for him to sacrifice himself. So to be more impactful or to strengthen his will to sacrifice, I can only think of that because they love each other and he is willing to risk his life for her. Of course there are a few example that the character sacrifice without much deep bonding but most of them didn't really die, and I just think if it's Law and with his personality, the reasoning of his sacrifice wouldn't be that thin.

Plus, Robin already faced a lot of sacrifices - the entire Ohara and the scholars, Saul and her mother. Oda please don't be so cruel to her... and please don't be so cruel to Law too... He already lost his country, his family, Corazon and... *please hopefully his crew still alive*. That's just too sad :(

Another theory is that Law is going to sacrifice for Luffy, that actually makes more sense because they saved each other multiple times, Luffy is a D and well - he is Luffy aka nika the sun god LOL but I'm 100% sure that Luffy wouldn't want that. And he wouldn’t want to be immortal. It’s never his goal. I think if Liffy become immortal would be a very off character thing and kind of against Oda’s message in one piece so imo I don’t think Law will use his immortal abilities to Luffy ever.

So to be honest, I don't want them to be canon now lol because I have a feeling they won't have a happy ending after. They can go investigate or flirt as much as they want until the end :P

Back to the question - Then why Oda gave the same dream to Robin and Law? Maybe the answer is simple. Maybe just because it makes sense. Maybe it's because Robin and Law's journey is too lonely, Oda felt there should be someone to pursue with her/him.

Because most of the straw hats have people in their homeland or have friends that can understand their dream: Luffy: Sabo & Ace & his whole crew Zoro: Kuina, Koushirou(his teacher) & Mihawk Nami: Nojiko, Genzo and Bellemere Sanji: Chef Zeff & Baratie Usopp: Kaya, the kids, Broggy & Dorry Chopper: Dr. Kureha & Hiriluk Franky: Iceberg & Galleyla company Brook: Laboon & Crocus Jimbei: Sun pirates & most of the fish-men

Robin: Saul, her mom, Professor Clover & other scholars (which most of them passed away when she was 8)

Only Robin carrying the dream from Ohara and is working toward her goal by herself for a long time, and before egghead she thought Saul was dead too. Law is also similar, he carry his goal (defeat Doflamingo) for 13 years by himself. He even left Heart Pirates in Zou so that it won't hurt them while he is achieving his goal.

So why not let two people that have been chasing their dream alone for a long time, can share their goals and work together now?

Although I delulu a lot, it also might be Oda is planning a romantic relationship between them. I know he said that he won't be focusing on romantic relationship but It's final saga, it makes sense characters developing feelings with each other during adventures and he probably changed his mind throughout the years. Law & Robin are somewhat popular in japan and Asia too. So that's actually possible!

Hopefully that answer your question! I talk a lot lol but I can't really think a strong reason that why he did that. I will keep this in mind and maybe I will come up another reason once I re-read the chapters. Thank you so much for your question!!

[princess-of-the-corner]

MLP Rewrite AU - Forgotten Friendship (if you didn't do it already)

OKAY SO UH

I absolutely rewrote this as a whole Thing in the universe and a chunk of things got changed so let's go over those before I get deep into the actual rewrite

1.) I had a separate fic in the AU where Sunset went back to Equestria and talked to Celestia already. Though it /was/ unfinished I remember most of my plans for it? So I skipped that here.

2.) Clover and the Memory Stone..... Clover already had completely different Lore surrounding her, both in-canon and thanks to my 'Hearth's Warming Cover Up' conspiracy theory, and the Memory Stone gave me a plothole headache. So I scrapped both.

3.) I made Wallflower's motivations a touch more relatable and out of her control.

4.) Unfortunately no Trixie in this but I've had fun with her elsewhere and should probably write her into something else lmao

SO ANYWAY

When Sunset gets to the beach and realizes no one remembers her having become their friend, she does manage to out-logic them. Pointing out inconsistencies and where they /should/ remember her being there because, looking into their memory, she's just erased out but not replaced well.

The biggest one being asking how they contacted Twilight when the Sirens were causing problems. The group pauses for a moment, but realizes that there was a journal but they can't remember where they got it. Sunset pulls out said journal, which gets them to listen a bit more.

She asks what they remember about the friendship games, to which Sci-Twi mentions remembering Sunset yelling at her for disrupting the games with portals. She says that it was harsh, but considering the whole event could've hurt her since it knocked her off the motorbike she understands in hindsight.

The rest of the group are like 'wait, what?' because they don't remember Sunset being in the games and couldn't fathom 'mean bully Sunset' being part of the games with them. But when asked who was paired with Rainbow for the motocross portion of the games, no one remembers. Except Sci-Twi, who says it was Sunset.

Sunset tests this and prompts further with- okay so I had a Thing™ in my rewrites that in the previous school year Pinkie and Sunset had been in the school play together. So as an inside joke they casually quote their lines at one another. Sunset kicks the habit off, reciting one of her lines. Pinkie answers, but stops. Her mind trying to remember, but all she can see is herself alone on stage, reading lines to no one.

Pinkie is Not Handling This Well™ and has dropped into straight hair mode and is hugging the fuck out of Sunset at this point. She forgot a friend! How dare she forget a friend?!

She asks them about after the games, because I had a fic re: finding Sunset's Human counterpart. And they remember her, but why would they look for her without prompting from their Sunset?

Sunset tests how far this goes by calling Flash. Just to see if it's an 'everyone' or a 'just the main characters' thing. He also doesn't remember making up with her. But with a little prompting of 'who gave you a sword for Christmas'(long story lmao), she gets him to listen. And he thinks about it more and says he remembers everything from when they 'broke up' and were fighting, but nothing about their friendship before that. Even though they would've been friends and hanging out before the 'break up', right?

Okay I'm going on a tangent trying to set up how the memory thing works lmao but anyway

The Rainbooms decide that they need more help than this and decide to talk to Princess Twilight about it. This includes everyone going through the portal because they're freaked and paranoid they'll forget again! (will be using 'Twilight' for pony and Sci-Twi for Human for now)

After some shenanigans of most of them getting used to Horse Mode™, Twilight does some prodding and questioning and experimenting. She actually /does/ know a spell that might cause this, but it's one she's not an expert on. Thankfully she can just do a quick teleport across town and grab someone who knows the spell a lot more.

Rarity my darling it's time for you to shine!

After quickly updating her, Twilight suggests that it may be the spell she used on the chandelier. Which Rairty agrees.

She elaborates, saying she had found the spell in a book up in the Crystal Empire. Technically it's a Crystal Pony spell, but Unicorns can replicate other Magics.

Anyway: The spell is used to copy a memory into a gemstone. She used this to make the tree root chandelier that's in the Castle of Friendship. There was a chunk of trial and error as she got the spell right. She gives examples of what went wrong, like her initial trials on Rainbow volunteering 'erase my memory of the Daring Do books so I can read them for the first time again'. Sometimes it erased her memory of the books, sometimes it erased her memory of the pony. The spell is even specific enough to differentiate different 'versions' of someone, such as 'Twilight as a Unicorn' vs. 'Twilight as an Alicorn'.

Now, the spell isn't /supposed/ to erase memories, just make a copy. But it can fuck up and erase. And unfortunately, Rarity can't reverse the spell without having whatever gemstone holds the memories.

Ofc this means they have to figure out who did this! Clearly since more Humans are getting their Pony Magics, it should be a counterpart to a Unicorn or Crystal Pony. They just have to figure out who. Rarity muses that, as the spell is an incomplete version, it's likely they tested it out and had it backfire on them a lot. Backfired spells can cause low-energy and even some pain, but also it means the person may have accidentally erased memories of themselves.

They go back to the Human World, leaving Twilight and Rarity in Equestria and keeping them updated in case something goes wrong, and decide to flip through the previous year's yearbook to look for someone they don't remember. Pinkie eventually points out Wallflower, and everyone knows that Pinkie's memory for people is very good so if she doesn't remember....

They lure Wallflower to the school gardens, and Sunset does the memory dive to look into it. She sees that Wallflower had been accidentally activating the spell, erasing herself from people's memory. Had been getting more and more hurt from the unfinished spell. But since she didn't know how to fix it, why not use it?

This causes a bit of a fight because Sunset's like 'the FUCK do you have against me?!' and Wallflower yells back about how it's unfair that someone like Sunset can just 'be nice' after so much meanness and get super popular while people like Wallflower who were always nice get entirely forgotten.

Pinkie calls her out on this of like 'hey! I consider you a friend why not come to me!'. Wallflower is very cynical on this because Pinkie considers everyone a friend but there's no way in hell she knows /everyone/ as intimately as a friend should. Which, yeah, Pinkie can do some wild shit but there's people she's closer to than others. But she's always open to being closer to someone! Or to helping someone out, including helping them find someone they may find a true friendship in! Wallflower still could've come to her!

Wallflower is starting to see that she fucked up, but she can't return their memories of Sunset. She doesn't know how. So she does the one thing she thinks she can do, give them a fresh start!

Ofc Sunset tries to block this and gets hit and. well.

It erased memory of the 'Human-esque' Sunset. Which means, as far as Sunset's aware, she just ran through the portal after her fight with Celestia and is mid-breakdown.

Not a fun experience!

Sunset has no idea what's going on. All the others are mad at Wallflower. They try to fix it and explain that there should be a gemstone. Wallflower offers her necklace but.... there's nothing in it. No memories, no Magic whatsoever.

Sunset is VERY confused but trying to help. the others are getting more upset and worried because 'oh shit she doesn't remember jack shit of the last six years and we still don't know how to fix it!!

But since they tell Wallflower to stop zapping everyone goddamn it they drag the Pony!Twilight and Rarity over to try and fix this shit.

Wallflower: "Oh god I'm sorry I don't deserve friends after all I've done how could anyone ever forgive the awful things I did???"

The Rainbooms+2: "Well. You didn't try destroying the world so you're really not even in the top 10 of wildest people we've befriended. Also we may have a Problem™."

Anyway! Rarity manages to figure out what crystal the Memories are hiding in! They're hiding in Wallflower herself. Crystal Pony bodies mimic crystals/gems so they can do the same thing.

Now knowing where the Memories are, Rarity can channel the spell and return the memories to where they should be.

Sunset and Wallflower get to talk for a bit about Hey That Was Fucked™.

But also like. Sunset knows what it's like to be alone. She left her home when she was still a kid, and wound up in a whole other dimension. One where, even if she makes some friends, she could never fully befirend them because she couldn't tell them /what/ exactly she was. It's different now, but she'd faced that before. She knows lonliness.

And Wallflower feels guilty because she never really put together how alone Sunset was. Thought she'd just skated by so easily in the friends department.

And Sunset helps her realize that there's more to friendship than just kindness. Being nice helps, of course. But you need to reach out. You need to put in an effort.

But at the same time, everyone you meet holds the potential to become your best friend.

[thoughtfullyrainynightmare]

I know this is asking too much from a series like black clover but I've been rereading the missing children arc and man I really wish we'd gotten some more insight into Neige's psyche. Like... sure he's soft and sweet, but let's not forget he got angry and struck Marie in rage because she OPPOSED HIM. He thought friends were just supposed to blindly agree his every word and immediately resorted to violence when frustrated. Which... I mean okay, it makes sense given that his only friends seemed to be his snowmen and that he was apparently raised by his brother who was verbally, emotionally AND physically abusive. But still! I wish we'd gotten to see his evolution beyond just "oh I was wrong to do all that, I'm going to be good from now on."

And let's not forget that he killed his brother??? He clearly cared about him despite everything??? Why are we brushing over all this???

Logically I know not every side character can get developed but still. Frustrating.

Sorry for the rant, I just needed to get this out and since I always enjoy your insights and you recently talked about the snow baby I thought you'd be the best person to go to. Have a nice evening!

Flamelet I can feel your frustration, and I know (to an extent) how it feels when your blorbo doesn't get the character development, or doesn't get it in a satisfying manner.

Also, don't worry about the rant! I'm all for hearing thoughts and feelings for the show, and the characters, as long as it's, y'know, constructively formulated. Which this is.

And for what it's worth, I think that Neige's emotional growth is stunted to some extent. Like, a lot of the behaviours he displayed, made me think of the word "tantrum", so he has never probably been taught how to handle his own emotions. (Like with striking Marie when she didn't just go along with things. Reminds me of toddlers pushing each other on a sandbox.) It's something that can be observed in people well into their 40s too, but usually it's displayed in other ways. But it's still the temper-tantrum phenomenon.

I would imagine that living with Baro would have caused a severe enough of a trauma for Neige to stay in that mind-set and emotional/psychological state. Defence mechanisms of a kind to not explore those emotions and or handle them in any way, and acting out of impulse. But also it could be a behaviour pattern that Neige learned from Baro. So, if Neige didn't go along Baro's plan, then Baro hit him, or something along those lines. And yes, though Baro did a lot of horrid things to Neige, Neige cared for Baro. Probably out of a "conviction" of a kind to an extent (like "I need to care for him because he's my brother"), but also probably because Baro was the only person Neige had in his life. And without his brother, Neige would have been all alone. And being alone is scary.

A lot of these events were a lot for Neige too, I would imagine, which could have placed him in a kind of a shock, where Baro's death wouldn't have visibly shown in that moment either. Maybe a form of denial? (I'm not a psychologist, so I'm just guessing a lot here) Which is why Neige wasn't shown grieving.

But also the "okay, I will be good from now on" is an intention, which I think would go well with someone who isn't yet equipped to handle emotions, especially complex emotions, at least well. So, without really reflecting on what happened and why; how things ended up where they did, Neige just blatantly decides "I will be good". The emotional growth, and learning the tools to handle his emotions and live without the ""guidance"" of Baro, come later.

Though, granted, as you mentioned, that a lot of this is just due to not being able to focus on every side character. So, this theorization "goes too deep", because things just needed to be wrapped up quickly, and Neige was given a very, very rushed redemption arc.

I really don't know, I'm just making a lot of (more or less) educated speculations ^^'

Thank you for the ask!

[subterra-rose]

Some general TOH HCs which may or may not be canon at this point

Luz

Height: 5’6

Birthday: Nov. 18th

Bi genderqueer

Misc: Loves doing those taste tolerance challenges / Her best subjects back home were biology and english, on the Boiling Isles her grades are all pretty similar, but she does slightly better in potions and beast-keeping / Would LARP but lacked the friends to do so until now. You KNOW she would’ve rp’d warrior cats on the playground / Into taxidermy art but sometimes doesn't have the patience / Her and Manny shared a lot of similar interests / She used to have a cat when she was younger, but once Manny got sick they didn't get another due to stress and lack of time / Helped Vee with school once she got back / has 1000 wips for books and comics / Camila and her / plans so many sappy dates with Amity only to find out Amit has done the same, just slightly before her

Eda

Height: 6’1

Birthday: Mar. 26th

Bi

Misc: Chose the potions track because of Lilith / Hates to admit it but her parenting style is reminiscent of Gwen’s before she was cursed / Has probably talked a few scouts out of leaving the EC. She has a lot of sympathy for the younger ones / She’s enchanted half of the stuff in the Owl House to clean itself but she actually kind of enjoys folding laundry. It’s very mind numbing / She only started treating King more like a roommate rather than a child to prove a point to him / She HATES spices except for ones that go in desserts / She has taken apart a Crystal ball and then neglected to put it back together because “she’ll figure it out later” (a lie perhaps) / managed to hotwire a car in the human realm, promptly crashed it into a pole, and stole a bunch of parts to sell

Lilith

Height: 6’0.5

Birthday: Sept. 18th

Trans aro ace

Misc: Also hates garlic / Has tons of friends in and outside of the coven. She just gives off loner vibes / In addition to be a history nerd, also enjoys linguistics and theoretical math / Her and Hooty joke about get besties tattoos / Feels a lot of guilt about her family and blames herself for the dynamics that resulted / loves puzzle games or anything that makes her have to think tactically

Willow

Height: 5’5

Birthday: May. 15th

Bi aspec demigirl

Misc: Is a very logical person but her competitiveness sometimes gets in the way / Goes on walks with Clover nightly. Gus and Hunter join them sometimes / has a bit of an interest in potions, especially if it involves plants in some way / Her and her dad plan family nights at least once a month where they sit down and play games or watch movies

Gus

Height: 4’10/5’3

Birthday: Oct. 6th

Bi

Misc: throws the best surprise parties / plays hide and seek with Emmiline constantly. As a result, he’s the master of sneaking up on people / 90% of the speculative guesses he has about Earth flora and fauna are surprisingly right / He would be so into hoverboarding you don’t even understand

Amity

Height: 5’7

Birthday: July. 7th

Trans lesbian

Misc: Is way more impulsive than you would initially think / Kind of slow when she’s allowed to take her time/isn’t under pressure / Goes through periods where she’s really close to Ed and Em then pushes them away / Boscha overestimated the friendship they had, but her relationships with Skara and the rest of them were significantly better (not the best, but. Better) / she made Luz an AMV for their 6 month anniversary / Very practical with her clothing. She feels she needs to be prepared lmao

Hunter

Height: 5’8

Birthday: Sept. 2nd

Bi genderqueer

Misc: Strikes me as someone who changes who they want to be and what they want at least once a year. It takes him a little while to figure out what he wants to do / Can cook a little / Gets into debates with Luz about which of their interests are better / Fixates HARD. He could finish a book in a day and tell you all the details forwards and back if he was interested/ Gus is his #1 cosplay buddy / starts collecting cardinal items for Flapjack /

Raine

Height: 5’9-10

Birthday: Jan. 21st

Sapphic nonbinary

Misc: They have a good relationship with their parents and visit them whenever they can / they buy little trinkets that remind them of Eda post-breakup / They were hesitant to take the head witch position / Although they have stage fright, they’re not really shy. Raine can be quite charismatic and tactful / Eda and them used to bug Lilith when she joined the Emperor’s coven, especially when she was a scout / Would help Luz with learning an instrument if she wanted

Belos

Height: 6’2/6’8-7’2

Birthday: Jan. 9th

Whatever’s funniest in the moment baybee (biaro agender usually)

Misc: I think back home the townsfolk marginally preferred Philip over Caleb just because as a child he was eager to please. They thought they were both kind of odd / Despite being very devout, has a lot of interest in literature that critiques religion and the occult just so he can analyze it / When the first grimwalker failed/betrayed him, it sent him into a brief spiral where he wondered if he was doing the right thing (you KNOW he wasn’t) / Idolized Caleb a lot as a child / made a penstagram account once to see what people were saying about him incognito but got overwhelmed and never touched a scroll again

Caleb

Height: 5’11

Misc: The townsfolk didn’t really care all that much when he left / Him and Evelyn met in secret for about 2-3 years before he finally decided to leave / He was an immigrant but Philip was born once the family settled. Him and Philip came to Gravesfield when they were like 11 and 6 respectively / He was kind of a jack of all trades and knew a little bit of everything / Very smart but gave up a lot of opportunity for formal education to care for his brother

[itsclydebitches]

Wait what was the mess with Ilia/queer representation? I don't usually look into these things so I probably didn't hear or see people talking about it

Happy to explain! First, the obligatory disclaimer: Ilia is a complicated case and, like anything else in RWBY, her place in the show is very much up to interpretation. I think her character arc, particularly in relation to her status as a queer character, is an absolute mess but I know others are of the opposite opinion. Many of the “flaws” I point out are perceived as her greatest strengths. So it’s subjective.

That being said, I wrote a little bit about this during Volume 5 when it was all going down. A simplified list of the primary issues includes:

Introducing your first, long-awaited queer character as a villain (even a sympathetic one)

“Redeeming” her in the span of one episode in a way that provides no punishment/responsibility/growth in the face of the horrific acts she committed

This character is left behind by the story at the end of the volume, presumably never to be seen again outside of, perhaps, a final battle that includes the whole cast

Tying her queerness directly to her villainy

It’s this last point that I take the most issue with. See, the fandom is right to point out that Ilia has motivations for her actions established throughout the volume, namely the death of her parents and the general racism that is still pervading Remnant. Ilia says multiple times throughout Volume 5 that this is why she’s going after Blake and her family. Because she honestly believes that they are a threat to the faunus’ progress. However, just because a character says something doesn’t make it true. Take Yang in the same season. She says she doesn’t want/care if Blake ever comes back to the group, which anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the show knows is BS. Rather, Yang’s emotions are functioning on multiple levels. A part of her really doesn’t want Blake to return because she’s still furious with her, whereas a larger part of her wants them to reconcile. Now, apply that logic to Ilia. It’s absolutely true to say that she’s motivated by activism and the death of her parents, however, her confrontation with Blake reveals that this isn’t the only reason for her attack. It is, arguably, not even the primary reason. Ilia gives a speech about how they need to be doing more for the faunus, how she doesn’t like to hurt people but she can’t deny that it has gotten them results. Yet when Blake challenges this part of her identity - you’re not a killer - the conversation unexpectedly takes a turn. When pushed to explain how she became this way Ilia does not reiterate her thoughts on racism or the trauma of her parents’ deaths. Instead, she starts talking about her unrequited feelings for Blake: 

Suddenly, Ilia’s motivations have changed. Or rather, they’ve become more complicated. Both sets of motivations exists, but this is the one she admits to under duress, framing it as more “true” than what she’s been saying prior to this conversation. Now, Ilia shows personal motivations rather than just the generically good rhetoric of I Want To End Racism Because It’s Bad. Having Blake down on her knees, shipping her off to Adam, and killing her parents is explicitly connected to the (perceived) problem of, “You didn’t love me.”  Blake is positioned as responsible for who Ilia became: You want to know why I’m like this? You were too busy looking at Adam. I wanted you to look at me that way but you didn’t. That’s how I learned that we can’t always get what we want. So now you don’t get to have what you want (your parents’ safety, distance from Adam). You get to feel what I felt when you didn’t love me back. When Blake poses the question of, “Why are you like this?” Ilia’s answer is “Because I’m queer, have unrequited feelings, and that taught me that life sucks. Now I’m returning the favor.” 

Suddenly, Ilia’s actions are removed from the (already ethically dubious) logic of treating Blake this way because she believes it will help the faunus in the long run and instead are implied to stem from a desire to punish her for not reciprocating those feelings. In this moment Ilia moves from a misguided activist-turned-terrorist and instead becomes a misguided lesbian seeking revenge. She might not admit it - she never explicitly says that she’s punishing Blake for not loving her - but that’s the implication by taking the conversation in this direction; by having Ilia answer with her sexuality rather than her activist views. By drawing such an overt connection between these actions and Ilia’s admission, these things - the impending death of Blake’s parents, kidnapping her, sending her back to her abuser - are framed as things that she “deserves” according to Ilia. If you’d just looked at me with love from the start we never would have ended up here. This falls into a number of horrible tropes including, but not limited to, The Predatory Gay, The Psycho Lesbian, and The Queer Character Falling For Their (Presumably) Straight Friend.

Now, the takeaway here is not “You can never write villainous queer characters.” More often than not any statement beginning with “You can never write ____” is going to be a bad take. Indeed, there are tons of queer/queer coded villains who I adore. That doesn’t mean I want media to perpetuate that long, stereotyped history though. “But Clyde,” the world says. “That doesn’t make any sense. How can you both want and not want this setup?” To which I respond with the iconic words of Jane Lynch:

People’s identities are made up of multiple parts and those parts can read the same writing choice in different ways. As a queer person who loves the ~drama~ of a flamboyant villain I want that entertainment (like Watts). As a queer person who is disgusted by the implications tied to that trend (you’re evil, you’re unnatural, you’re sick, you deserve to be punished, to be killed) I don’t want to see our only queer character be a villain. Which is what Ilia was at the time of her reveal. She was all we had and we didn’t know if RT would ever going to give us anyone else. That was just awful to watch and worry about. It didn’t make me happy. Which sounds like a shit thing to say - This isn’t your story! It doesn’t cater to you! - but after years of waiting for queer rep it felt like a kick in the teeth to get this character in this way and leave her behind when we had a cast of five main women right there, any of which could have been queer. Ilia’s reading was made worse by the lack of rep surrounding her, but to be frank things haven’t improved much. I adore Saphron and Terra, I think they were really well done as characters, but they’re still very minor characters and we can’t ignore that, like Ilia, they were left behind by the story. Blake and Yang are not canon yet, leaving all the hints at their relationship sitting in the limbo of, “Is this just queer baiting?” If you’re someone who pays attention to queer coding, a lot of queer-coded men have been killed off in this show (Roman, Ozpin, Clover). We supposedly have one trans character… whose identity thus far only exists in a tweet.

Kudos to RT for hiring a trans voice actor - they absolutely deserve recognition for that - but it’s still not enough in this day and age. It’s 2020. Queer coding, queer minor characters quickly shuffled off screen, and queer “rep” in the form of paratextual info simply doesn’t fly. We decided that in the most vocal terms possible during the Harry Potter era, a fandom that took over most of the world and, thus, had one hell of an impact on media going forward. No, it’s not rep if you say Dumbledore is gay in an interview but never work that into the story. It’s not rep if you say May is trans on Twitter but don’t work that into the story. Not unless both characters are supplemental additions to a canon already filled with a variety of queer rep. “It’s so cool that this character is also queer! I get why you didn’t have time to work that in, so it’s a good thing we have those five other characters to identify with.” RT might do that in the future. Blake and Yang might become canon in Volume 8. May might be confirmed in the show. Saphron and Terra might unexpectedly arrive to become a part of the story again. We simply don’t know. But as of right now Ilia is one of only three in-canon queer characters out of a cast of ten bajillion (approximately lol) and out of those three she is the only one who was developed into a well-rounded character. That means nearly the entirely of RWBY’s rep rests on her shoulders. I think her queerness is fine for a cast already full of queer characters. There it functions as good diversity - “Some lesbians do join extremist groups and blame unrequited love for their murder plans!” - rather than representation for lesbians/queer people as a whole - “It’s a good thing we have these three other heroic lesbians in RWBY to balance out the message Ilia sends!” But since we don’t have that the takeaway is just what we’ve seen for decades: Queer characters are villains. Queer characters are violent and predatory. Queer characters are written out of the show.

Historically, Ilia’s characterization has problems on its own, but those problems were very much exacerbated by making her the first and, at that point, only queer rep. I - and no doubt others - would have been far more receptive to her as representation if we’d already gotten queer heroes prior to her introduction. And again, that’s a preference. Some fans want more queer villains as a way to say, “Anyone can be queer.” For me though, I’ve seen enough Ilias throughout my life. I’ve seen enough versions of my identity painted as unwanted and dangerous. I was expecting RWBY to do better and I hope that they will do better in the future.