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After i read the Quran version i noticed how the translated version does not have the same meaning as the Quraan version the value of the translation decrease Also the translation does not have the same affect because the arabic language is much more complex than the translation and the translation does not give the same clear meaning as it does in arabic.

the word “السميع”  “العليم” in arabic version praise to God more than “he hears” or “he knows “ _ line 34

in line 5: “O son, do not narrate your dream to your brothers”

the word “dream”does not show the same meaning as the word “ رؤياك”

because in arabic version it means as a dream and foretelling. 

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In the holly Quran, from an Arabian review, I can find the different in meaning from what the Quran really mean from what its translated in English. For Muslims one of the miracles that god made on the prophets hands to prove something to the people, the Quran was one of god’s miracles to save him through the time from changing or even forgetfulness so people still believe that it’s the same one that they had before in the same words and same order, and that’s mean that there are some words that have changed in using or maybe have multiple meanings. Like for instants the words in Arabic are deeper and have multiple meanings and on the other side the English side translate the words in one way without explain that it could have other meanings and we can find this when we read more books about translated Quran to English we can see clearly that there are different in using words to explain what it mean in Arabic like for example the word “ مبين”  which is a really simple word in Arabic that mean literally (shown) but in the text it mentioned more that once but every time in different meaning like I have two examples :-

1)      "إن الشيطان للإنسان عدو مبين"       “surly Satan is man’s acknowledged loe "5

-          Here they used the word “مبين” (Mobeen) to show that Satan for people it’s their first enemy and that most hateful main one.

2)      “Our father is surly in the wrong”8  in this part it’s mentioned to stress on the idea that he’s in the wrong.

And this word one of the simple words that Arabic have. And if I continued counting words I won’t finish because of what the Arabic have of hard and strong meanings in its words.

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English translation

Verse #2 In Qura'n at the end of the verse it says "لعلكم تعقلون", and in the translated virsion it says "that you may understand", when i read it in arabic i got a lot of emotions and i felt it inside me , but when i read in english i didn't get the same feelings and i didn't really get the meaning i got from the arabic virsion, because "تعقلون" comes from the word "اعقال" or "عقل" which means " brain" , so it means that you have to understand , believe mentally and phisically in what was said in Qura'n, to do what god has told you to, and so on, whereas in english you'll get that you may understand Qura'n and thats it, which is a small part of the meaning. I think in translation virsions they tend to use the shortest meanings, so it won't be super long, but i suggest if someone whose intrested in understanding Qura'n , to read more about the verses and try to read the analysis. #MaramAbuZayyad

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Line4, when Joseph told his father: "O my father, I saw eleven stars and the moon bowing before me in homage" Joseph son of Jacob had two brothers his dream was a prophecy he's going to be the greatest between them and they're going to respect him I think "I saw eleven stars and the moon" probably means he sees eleven men and the prophet to make him the next one. And as a reader I think its amazing how he dreamt about something like that. I mean if it really happends than that will be like he has a gift to see something happening before it does . #AlhanAlomari

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Translation issues

12/Joseph-15: “ فَلَمَّا ذَهَبُواْ بِهِ وَأَجْمَعُواْ أَن يَجْعَلُوهُ فِي غَيَابَةِ الْجُبِّ وَأَوْحَيْنَآ إِلَيْهِ لَتُنَبِّئَنَّهُم بِأَمْرِهِمْ هَذَا وَهُمْ لاَ يَشْعُرُونَ“    “So when they took him out they planned to throw him in an unused well.”    The verses above are taken from the first translation of Joseph,and for those who can read and understand both languages it’s very easy to tell the difference, and spot what I can confidently call a mistake in translation, at first glance and just by looking at the two words highlighted above.   We have previously seen the brothers of Joseph having a bit of an argument over HOW they want to get rid of their brother. they had three options, either to actually kill him, or to leave him in some abandoned land or to throw him into an unused well. and that is where the scene ends, and as we’ve previously noted, we are then taken to a whole another scene without the use of any sort of narrative link. Now, the verses above come later on, to tell us about when and how they made a final decision. 

   Now if we look at the original Arabic version, it says that once they and their brother got far away from home, they “ أَجْمَعُواْ أَن يَجْعَلُوهُ فِي غَيَابَةِ الْجُبِّ “ which means that they all agreed on one way, and that is to throw him into the well. Now if we look at the origins of the word “ أجمعوا” it comes from “جمع” which is to bring multiple things into one. and thus the word  “ أجمعوا  could suggest bringing multiple - and possibly different- opinions into one. That word is very often used in situations where a group of people decide to have some sort of a vote on sth, and then go with the opinion of the majority.    So, for them to “ أجمعوا “ does not only - and merely- mean for them to agree on sth, but offers the possibility of there being a minority that had a different opinion but eventually had to give in and go with the opinion of the majority. Which in this case, tells us that there might have been some of his brothers that still wanted to kill him, or leave him some were far away, or even had a totally different opinion. which if we think of it, is very likely to happen in the case of 11 brothers.    But, sadly, in the English version, the word “أجمعوا” is translated into the word “Planned” which not only has a totally different meaning, but takes away a very important part of the story.    If we look at the second translation though, we’ll find a much more accurate translation, for that version says “ When they set out with him, and all agreed they would hurl him into the darkness of the well, we revealed.... “

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translated verse

first of all i want to talk about the two translation and the i will choose the verse that i want to talk about. i see a big difference on the two translated verses the first one is more formal that the second one and the second one its translated and has the same words what it say in arabic. in our class some person asked him self that what those mean "ALIF LAM RA" thats a phrase that Allah(swt) put in the begining of the verse nobody knows what it means only Allah (swt). and Allah is all knowing and all wise. i choose the verse that says "we have sent it down as a clear discourse that you may understand" but in the arabic verse says " نَّا أَنزَلْنَاهُ قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا لَّعَلَّكُمْ تَعْقِلُونَ" the original translation is that "we have sent it down as an arabic quran perhaps you will understand" in my opinion for the people who dont know arabic they have to use a simple way to people can understand, no a hard way, in our religion its says that. and if someone wants to understand more clearly they can learn the language. last but not least i want to say that formal way to translate an arabic verse is hard and that is easy to use informal way. sumaya elsus

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Joseph - Translated Verse

In the Quran the translation can sometimes not fully portray the meaning of the arabic verse. For example when in the story of Joseph the Quran continues to say “Patience is most fitting” in the english translation. The arabic version has so much more meaning than simply that patience is fitting for the situation. In arabic its “فصبر جميل” when this part is said in the Quran it is Allah who is telling Jackob “patience is most fitting,” or “فصبر جميل.” In english when you read this verse you dont really think much of it. However when it is said in arabic it shows Allah doesnt just say that “patience is most fitting,” but rather when it is read in arabic it feels as if Allah is telling Jackob, “patience for beautiful things will come later. Be patient and you will be rewarded with beautiful things. Beautiful patience.” For me personally this verse in arabic is so much more soothing and comforting than simply being translated as, “patience is most fitting.”

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Translating the Quran

I fully believe that if someone wants to learn the Quran he or she should learn Arabic before learning the Quran instead of just reading an English translated version, I do love the English language and its literature but it doesn't work for the Quran, The Quran describes itself or God describes it in his own words that its a miracle and its the pinnacle of language, Even Arabic language scholars at the time in Mekkah who were very strong in the language were amazed and shocked by the use of language in this book, and there are many examples of translation failing us here, As in the example of translating the word تعقلون to understand as the Arabic language offers a context thats not available in the English language, it to an extent means to think deeply, and not to understand as the translation offers, there are many other countless examples and this is just a mere reflection of it here.

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The Translation effects

Ever had a different meaning when translating a qoute from its original language ? Well you will sure have that coming alot , at least when it comes to the quran , the impact on you when reading the quran in arabic is way much more effective , its safe to say its really different , when i say more effective , its not the the difference bitween arabic and english ( example ) word by word , its the emotions and passion that are built within the words , as far as i know , when listening to a english song has that different touch than translating it to arabic , so when reading quran you will need to read it in arabic , so you can get that passion and emotions that were written with it and feel the story that the quran holds as you were in it and experienced it , although in terms of the actuall effect of translating bitween two languages could be slightly different , but not too much to worry about getting the same meaning #khamis_zaben

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English/Arabic verse

this is the first time for me to read the Qur'an in English, i found that there is a lot of differences  in meaning , they translated in words that are closely to Arabic but they didn’t reach the point of it, for example “We have sent it down as a clear discourse that you may understand”, (you may understand) it has different meaning in arabic, which means that you have to have wisdom it’s more closely to this word, so it’s better to read the Qur’an in Arabic because it has more meaningful words and clear.

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English/ Arabic verse

In verse # 4, "When jospepy told his father: "O my father,I saw eleven stars and the sun and the moon bowing before me in homage," I observed that the word "homage" is not very expressive or understood in the format.There was a sense of confusion because the word does not fit in the category in my form of perspective. It had me wondering and thinking about what could be meant by this illustration. Furthermore, when Joseph told his father what he saw, no sense of confusion came upon me. I stood there for a moment trying to think of how "bowing before me in homage" could be understood in a much simpler way, though nothing came to my mind. Overall as I went to the Arabic section, I understood it completely in a much faster way. Yusuf was telling his father what he saw and immediately the 11 stars, sun and the moon bowed down to him as a "miracle" as what God is trying to say in the quran. This type of action is indeed a Miracle because it was sent by the most merciful and gracious "God". The Arabic verse was much clear and at a glimpse, there was no sense of confusion. #ARWA ADHAMI

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Verse #4

In Arabic the word لي ساجدين it has Influential religious that when i read it i felt like the religion in the best in someone's life because this word represents how much josheph is holy person and how much God loved josheph,,,while in English seriously when i read it I don't feel anything ,,i just felt that Its like a normal sentence,no feeling no emotion in the sentence as mine i prefer Arabic it seems more comfortable to me Manar rajabi

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Translated verse

The last verse #111, which states the importance of sending prophets and messengers that carry a fruitful and an essential message for " men of wisdom", who will benefit from them. In addition, it mentions " this is not fictitious tale," this verse in specific gives me as reader a feeling of trust to what is written in this religious book, as it gives us a clear exposition of everything which allows us to interpret and understand things differently. Even though the Arabic version of this verse states the same points and it is well translated in to English. However, I had a better feeling while reading the Arabic one having its complex usage of language and its unique way of presenting the same points made me think more in every written word. The Arabic version, has a precious value of showing the importance of the prophets and of the precision of this book which makes you feel that this book is not just a normal book, but it is a book that was formulated from God's words. Moreover, I chose this line in specific because its the last one and shows a relation to the religion and the book as a whole, it somehow gives us a reason of why should we believe in it? This part was missing in the other books that we have read earlier.

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Response to Borges versions of Judas.

I believe the fact Runeberg giving three different versions of Judas is the ultimate proof of uncertainty in religious books generally and the Bible specifically, Three versions that were totally different than each other and totally contradicting each other gives me a feeling of Déjà vu , perhaps to reading GENESIS, That is exactly how I believe these versions generally relate to my understanding of GENESIS and the book of Luke, I found them very similar to the stories and versions of stories we encountered throughout reading these books in the course.

I read in the last version of Judas: ‘Runeberg comes up with the argument that as God in human shape would be made totally man, but man to the point of iniquity’, He laid out his idea out there very clearly for the audience to read and interpret, which is exactly what I as a reader did,He said god was incarnated as man in the form of Judas, man to the point of iniquity,What I don’t understand and would want to be elaborated on is whether the iniquity of Judas and therefore the iniquity of God just like the iniquity that all of us people of mankind can relate to,The word iniquity was used very extensively in GENESIS, and it was used in the new testament but not as much, following the meaning of the word in relation to different contexts it was put in throughout the books, the word very much means the threshold of sin, its when you flirt with sinning, the highest degree of sin is iniquity, and therefore it shows the degree God was willing to go for mankind, his own creation, this in a religious context of course would show the tremendous love God has for us and the importance of sacrifice and looking after one another,but I would like to take it into a different direction and argue that this version makes us even more deluded to the Bible, It would affect the routine and the lifestyle of many Christians, think of how the world would look if in an alternate world Jesus was not god, Jesus was a divine being but was not God himself, It would create much confusion and I would argue that if that was the case Christianity wouldn’t have had the same following that it does today, If God was incarnated in Judas, And Judas betrayed Jesus and led to his killing, that would very much be more similar to the book of Gilgamesh simple complications are complications that ordinary people that are just trying to get by in life wouldn’t go deep into and they would just believe in the major and overwhelming principles of the religion, meanwhile if this version of Judas was something that was adopted it would have stirred the religion in a whole different direction appealing to different people.

I don’t believe these version of Judas changed my idea or perception of the books because I believe these ideas and versions are things that we had already came by and faced before while reading these books, I believe they would change the perception of someone who had not been paying attention or diving deep into the books.

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response to Borges versions of Judas.

I was conflicted between whether to talk about the first or the second interpretation of Borges’ fiction versions of Judas, though the second one is the one that made the most sense.

In the second version, Nils changes his argument where he claims Judas sacrificed the most, and also ended up renouncing honor, kingdom of god, and many other things.  Here is what doesn’t make sense about this interpretation.

Is that Jesus before he was crucified at the last supper according to the gospel, he knew that he will be betrayed and so he says it out loud that someone of the twelve disciples will betray him. Keeping in mind he never mentioned who that would be. So if Jesus knew what’s going to happen to him as in getting crucified, and the reason he was sent to earth is to get crucified in-order to make up for humanity’s sins. Then how come it’s a betrayal defined by Jesus, when it’s actually something that helped Jesus finish the mission that god sent him to do.

Though before the supper according to the gospel when the chief priests were plotting a way of how to put Jesus to death, “Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot” then “he went away and conferred with the chief priests” it makes you wonder who went on to plot the death? Judas or Judas after the serpent has entered were he became “Iscariot”? it looks like Judas is not in control of his own will. So again does that make Judas a Betrayer?

What really makes Borges second interpretation add up so much, is the kiss according to the gospel, to me it sounded and seemed really intimate and very sentimental and out of context, that Judas went to Jesus and out of the blue was about to kiss him, actually in the gospel it doesn’t say whether he was eventually kissed, nor where was the kiss, a lot of the paintings out there indicate the place of the kiss was either on the cheeks or on the lips, which makes the situation even more bizarre, why is Judas giving Jesus a kiss. Since a very important point, which was brought up in class, is that Judas’ kiss wasn’t a sign to let people know that Jesus is here, Jesus wasn’t a king or a prince that isn’t showed to the people as a protection protocol, he was social and a very well-known figure due to his political statements against the current rulers who were extremely the opposite of fans to Jesus.

In both cases whether he was aware of his doings or not, Judas indeed did sacrifice the most and that’s why the second interpretation made sense the most, because no matter how much you want to go around the story, Judas did sacrifice the most, and he did give up so much to do what he did. Though what I would like to believe, that he was aware of his actions, and he did what he did to help Jesus complete his assignment, knowing the consequences of people his name being written in history as the man who killed the beloved miracle.

so this is nonetheless a very conflicting interpretation, though in my opinion it is the most fair prediction of what might have gone with Judas. 

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My interpretation of the text when Runeburg said Judas was the reflection of Jesus in the human world is that Judas in a way was Jesus himself. In other words maybe Jesus or some may call him God isnt so trusting himself according to my interpretation to these texts. The reason why is because, why would Jesus(God) want someone to betray him? Is it because it was destined or to create a new chapter in Christianity. This text lead me to many questions on why would Jesus in the first place hid the fact Judas would betray him because Judas was most close to Jesus. Also, why would Jesus keep Judas close to his side? As in Genesis and in the book The Gospel of Luke, human betrayal to God has always been around. So does history really repeat itself?

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The three versions of Judas

Judas was a reflection of Jesus because he said about how human is part evil And it plays an important role in the destiny of Christianity. Because his own evil consumed him and lead him down to that path (being crucified) I agree on that because since Jesus is holy and sin free (in a way) Judas was a reflection of the evil side of Jesus. And I just agree with it because it's similar to all of the previous stories like Genesis and Gilgamesh That there's something evil in all humans and it effects our fate. #AlhanAlomari