ginnala

[ginnala]

I'm finally here with the reply!

I’m almost 100% sure Arcos was just plain bad with money.

RIP Arcos, he was so unprepared for that leadership position 🥲 At least his eldest(?) son is good at it!

(Also have to wonder if Neumann just didn't let Sir Bayern have much responsibility, given that Bayern seems like a man who knew how to manage finances?)

That lace dress would’ve cost a fortune o.O

My reaction exactly 😂

I can believe that Marbella's novel dress is machine bobbinet, but like. It would have had to be embroidered by hand, so I'm still raising my eyebrows at the extravagance of it! :/

All of this because the artist just wanted to use a pretty lace brush 😂

Judging by the technology of Lorasia, this is pre-industrialization so lace would’ve been made by hand) or bobbin lace (which was begun to be made by machine by the 1820s and contributed to the decline of handmade lace).

The entire history of it is so tragic 😔

It's so weird to have Industrial Revolution at their doorstep when in TGED they still use the swords from medieval to 17th c. period 😭 I was doing some reading on the dueling practices (for clothing references, mostly), and from the 1780s on most of the duels were fought with pistols because why would you put years of effort into learning the sword techniques when you could just. Bam, wham, your opponent gone?

What did Javier even hunt with pre-TGED, it would be so weird if he used a bow. The discrepancy of it all, smh 🧐

...That was a long tangent, I apologize. 😂 Anyway, lace! I remember googling how much it would cost (in English pounds, sadly), and I think the contemporary price was something like 13 shillings/yard for narrow handmade lace and 5 pounds/yard for bobbinet (😰), compared to the most expensive fabric on the list—silk brocade—which was only 15 s/y, plus the cheapest cotton (1s/y). So having a dress made of silk brocade would've been a lot less expensive 😂

Machine-made bobbinet price apparently dropped to ~5 pence/yard, which is much more affordable... but it'd still have had to be embroidered and there's the added cost of having the dress made (+10-20% to the cost of the materials), so it's unclear how much the finished dress could cost.

Enough fabric for a dress is listed as about 6 yards plus, and a court dress could be worth 200 pounds at the minimum (more realistically 500, and they could go up to thousands 😰). Thank goodness the Fronteras don't need all that, or Lloyd would faint from the stress!

(Ngl I do want Lloyd having to lie down and cry when he learned how much a court suit would cost him 😭)

Those numbers don't say much on their own, but apparently a gentleman's net worth could be as little as 2,000 pounds total. A character in a Jane Austen novel was having a sad moment because her dowry was just 1,000 pounds and she was worried nobody decent would want to marry her because investing those would only get her, like, 10 pounds/year, and that's nothing.

(Again, handmade bobbinet, 5 pounds/yard, man 😭)

Perhaps we could just assume those outrageous prices are saved for Rich characters like Siluria and Christine (Alicia too, of course, but her position kind of obliges her) 🫠

The neckline of this 1820s dress from the V&A is pretty close to some of Marbella’s dresses (along with the ostentation I’d expect from her wardrobe in their ‘money’ days)

Ooh, I like this one, it's beautiful. And, given a pair of detachable sleeves, it could be perfect for her design! Would argue against the actual gold embroidery, though, that seems more court territory to me 😂

Ohhh that could explain some of the 1780s dresses—and any of the Victorian ones with the suspiciously 1700s necklines could be repurposed dresses that were done-over to reflected the more recent styles. I like that take!

*high fives!*

They're basically rusticating out there without any ties to the Capital, so it’s to be expected to see a wider age of clothing.

Right? And also some very local fashions that would look out of place anywhere else. (Love that novel!Marbella owns a red cloak (!!!), it's another part of her wardrobe that's so right for both the timeline and the countryside, lol)

Which is why you also get Viscount Laconia in his white powdered wig, looking like he’d rather be brought into the new century kicking and screaming, while his son is creeping into the 1810s with his natural hair

😭 Poor Lacona, he would be so fashionable if only he left that wretched thing behind! Although it's rather funny, I have to admit.

(the slicked back hair isn’t period appropriate for any decade here but we ignore that for now 😌)

Uhhhhh, the hair. The FACIAL hair with the 18th c. court ensembles. Literally why, none of those men have ever seen a battlefield 😰

It might be written off as yet another example of the Renaissance influence, I suppose.

I can see those royal retainers pretty much wearing the uniform of prior centuries that has been formally engrained in the culture as a way to show how old and influential you are.

🙌 Yep. Weird that Alicia's royal regalia isn't as fossilized, but oh well.

The Merchant Guild definitely has that 16th cent look, which makes me wonder why wear it if it’s not a uniform like the livery is? Is it the age-old tradition of ‘the more cloth the better’ to show off your wealth? Or is it meant to hearten back to specific prosperous time and use it as a psychological tactic on a potential customer?

I'm sitting here like. On the Doylist level, it's probably a stereotype meant for the readers, BUT on the Watsonian level there must be an explanation! The Royal Academy headmaster also has that same vibe:

The second image is the bane of my existence. Why are there medieval tabards, a weird take on the Renaissance fashion, modern cadet uniforms, 18th c. attire, and Lloyd in all of his Mr.Darcy glory, all in one tiny picture? 😭 I'm laughing too hard to flame about it... but still 🔥

Alicia… ohhh Alicia

I have things to say about her, but it has to wait until I can get them in order. It's taking me forever to write, le sigh.

*hugs* Please get as much rest as you need 🥺💖

Continuation of this post. @fistfuloflightning hope you don't mind, it was getting long 🙏

(We're discussing TGED fashion in general and the Frontera family in particular 💗)

forgot to take into account their financial situation 🤦🏻‍♀️ Maybe Arcos partly went into debt bc he tried to keep up with fashions/trends lol.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised! The nobles' lifestyle would be so costly to upkeep...

(Also, the way Arcos got scammed: just some guy sweet-talking him and gifting him pretty furniture that really suited his tastes? Arcos probably wasn't very good with money to begin with 😔)

But also, Marbella. Her manhwa dress is maybe a bit too fancy for a COLD weekday, but this?

Is it... entirely LACE? Now we know where the money went 😂

maybe Lloyd’s wearing some of his father’s clothes from when Arcos was a young man (which could account for that late 1700s—early 1800s mixed bag)

Totally. I mean, Frontera isn't just poor, it's also too far from either Cremo or the capital for the fashions to reach them in a timely manner. So not just Lloyd, but Marbella may be wearing Arcos' mother's dresses, especially since she herself is of common birth...

Huh. That's an angle I haven't considered before 😳 Headcanon tentatively accepted, though!

I hesitate to place TGED in any specific decade since it’s a fantasy world with many RL inspirations and many decidedly not

A *decade* would be too narrow, yeah. A loose time period to draw inspiration from, more like.

people continue to wear older fashions, simply because new clothing costs money, so it wouldn’t be inconceivable to see 1780s clothing in 1800 or 1790s pieces in 1820.

This 👏 Especially in regions away from the main culture points.

*//rant incoming*

I also like to consider the in-world logic ("medieval setting has dragons? Say goodbye to your pretty Gothic towers!" <- I loved that), and like. Alicia being military? That's double Empire influence for both male and female fashion. Not so good for the Rococo fluff (or even the chemise gown due to its colonialism origins and Marie-Antoinette popularizing it).

And they didn't unearth Herculaneum + Pompeii in TGED, either, so no Greek craze to drive that style forth.

Instead, we have the 16th c. inspiration in the form of the merchant guild having that particular look Meatloaf + Shiloh are sporting?

And some of the other background characters as well—so basically, Renaissance is free game!

...I've been thinking about it recently, and it means that 1830s may actually be more appropriate than previously considered? (Since they literally borrowed that look from the 16th c.— I mean:)

And probably some Medieval undertones? Especially for the royal retainers (like the Royal messenger, even though his design kind of looks like a theater costume).

*//end rant*

... But the Real History enjoyer in me doesn't quite agree to bending the rules like that 😂 Feel free to ignore that part, it was just me throwing ideas at a wall to see what stuck!

You really should do that post about Marbella!

liking that first photo set for her (esp the first two), the ringlets work best since she’s got a bit of wave to her bangs.

(*hug*) I really should, I've been sitting on it for, like, over a year 😭

Here's a higher-res version of that second portrait, plus another one that's kind of... the fandom vibe for her, with the flowers? It's not exact, but I keep mentally going back to it:

Alicia’s kind of a steampunk Hussar vibe if I recall correctly… along with more 1780s men’s fashion 💀)

Afdhkgllk I've never thought about it like that, but it's so fitting! Probably the novel artist googled historical women in uniforms and got a bunch of 1880s costumes? One day we'll get to her 🙏

Anyway, thank you for replying, I'm having so much fun with it 😘

[ginnala]

Having many positive relationships is important for mental health 🫠

[ginnala]

the day i pick up a pen is the day i give these losers major physical consequences to every bad decision they ever made. javier is a walking scar tissue because i do not like people however strong and narratively powerful coming unscathed after fights. lloyd is losing this arm because i said so. he is also losing an eye iykyk. they are tired and in armor half the time. these men are going to be dirty and bad and half-dying

[ginnala]

There, I fixed this:

(Sorry, Arcos, I'm not crediting you with this one 😂)

Edit: the original under the cut because it seems I went too hard with it? (It's Javier, he deserved to be there.)

Me @ myself: If you just flip Julian over, no-one is going to notice a thing.

Also me: *painstakingly repaints his silverware in the correct order 😭

[ginnala]

Can Javier be adopted?

According to my (totally 100% correct 🤡) reading on the real-world nobility...

In a European setting, Javier can be adopted by the Fronteras, but he won't be considered a part of the Frontera bloodline and he definitely cannot inherit the barony since he's not blood-related. (Blood is everything, y'all.)

So if everyone including Julian dies, that's it, the title goes to the closest living relative or returns to the Queen to bestow as she pleases. Javier could receive it from her in exchange for his services, but ultimately that's her decision.

The same is true for Kim Suho, actually! (Unless they decide to handwave it away as a dark wizard changing Lloyd's appearance or something. He's totally the same guy, the Queen confirms; the magical DNA tests are just confused 👍)

...Anyway. Technically, Arcos could announce that Javier was secretly his illegitimate son and legitimize him (=Javier is now Frontera by blood and can inherit), but this would be seen as a heavy hit against Marbella's reputation. Neither of them would wish that.

(Arcos himself sees his inheritance as a heavy burden, so he probably wouldn't want to pass it on like that.)

But. 👏 If we take into account that Lloyd is a meritorious subject (which is a Joseon title)...

By the Joseon (ye olde Korean) nobility rules, Javier cannot be adopted, as he's not part of the yangban/nobility class. (I think TGED knights correspond to lifelong military retainers, aka middle class?)

In theory, Javier could become a noble by taking a government exam and getting assigned a post, and then Arcos could adopt him after all (though usually it was done if there were no sons in the family)... But even then, it would be really weird to bypass Arcos' own children in the line of inheritance, especially since Julian is brilliant and on track to receive a government position himelf.

...But! 😂

According to Joseon rules, Arcos would not be able to marry Marbella (a commoner), it could cost him his title and their children would not be able to inherit since they have ~dirty peasant blood~ in their veins 🙄

All of this is further complicated by the Count of Cremo's offer to Lloyd: marry my daughter and become the next Count Cremo. This is not how substantive titles work! It's not possible to become a count by marrying a daughter of a count! It is, however, something they did in ye olde Joseon times—Lloyd would technically be adopted into the family that had no sons and become the heir.

Verdict: TGED seems to follow its own set of made-up rules. Whatever works, works 😂

*Epistemic status: uncertain.

[ginnala]

(Spoilers for TGED manhwa ep202)

AAAAAAHHH Yes yes yes 😭👏

Forget Alicia and her quaint tournament, *this* is how you fight for Kim Suho:

He chomp 😳🔥🔪

I'm sad we didn't see more of Llojavi teamwork, and smh at Alicia just sort of standing there. Lloyd's death was... a neat visual, but also a bit dumb? I was looking forward to it, and yet :/

But it looks like Lloyd is going to resolve the matters by... negotiating? ✨ Are we going to get an ending where the good guys DON'T just beat the crap out of the devil? ...Nah, sounds too good to be true.

[ginnala]

@soymilksaltbun Oh, you're right! And it's not how they used to sit, either:

Luckily, there's another shot of that table setting, and it looks like Marbella has space to move her arms, at least.

Given that it's them, this may be as close as they could get to sitting in each other's laps in public 😂

(What I'm really upset about is that Javier couldn't join the family dinner due to the differences in social status 🥲)

Edit: also I'm just noticing that Lloyd's wine glass is empty. (And Marbella clearly decided Arcos had had too much 😭)

[ginnala]

Scheherazade and Julian: Magnetic attraction

Magnetic attraction = force that draws two magnets together, typically occurring between opposite poles (north and south) of the magnets. <- (I'm soo clever for thinking of it 👏)

[ginnala]

If you think about it, when a male character shows a (potentially romantic) interest in Lloyd, he calmly turns them down with zero fuss. But if it's a woman, he is:

- confused;

- thinks it's her father talking (is usually correct);

- still more confused??

- tries to abscond.

Meaning that in Lloyd's worldview, men showing interest in him is normal and expected, but women are definitely an aberration. Kim Suho, I have questions. 🤔

[ginnala]

Javier said he believed he could befriend an elf until he was six years old. Og Lloyd broke Javier's sword when he was six, so he was already at Frontera by then. What are the odds og lloyd also broke his dream of befriending an elf?? It'd be like a 'santa isn't real' moment—unless something drastic happened like him praying for an elf to come and help put out the fire burning his house then no one came, six is an awfully young age to stop believing in fantasy fairy tale.

[ginnala]

Little things I keep noticing in TGED manhwa (Part 3)

Part 1 / Part 2

1. Scheherazade is left-handed! (It almost makes up for Cannavaro and Kyle :/)

2. Lloyd called himelf 'Suho' when he was digging them out of the coal tunnel. This is the earliest point in manhwa when Javier could have learned that name. (Ep12)

3. The sword that Queen Alicia used to kill her brothers? Looks exactly the same as the one she went to assassinate Lloyd with. It was kept in her bedroom. 😭

It's *probably* not the same sword, but the parallels? Exquisite. (Ep111 + 140)

4. TGED has cannons and gunpowder, but notably not handheld firearms 🧐 Cannonballs had no effect on Gigatitan.

This is true to the novel as well.

5. Hamang's little hair 🥺

[ginnala]

Continuation of this post. @fistfuloflightning hope you don't mind, it was getting long 🙏

(We're discussing TGED fashion in general and the Frontera family in particular 💗)

forgot to take into account their financial situation 🤦🏻‍♀️ Maybe Arcos partly went into debt bc he tried to keep up with fashions/trends lol.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised! The nobles' lifestyle would be so costly to upkeep...

(Also, the way Arcos got scammed: just some guy sweet-talking him and gifting him pretty furniture that really suited his tastes? Arcos probably wasn't very good with money to begin with 😔)

But also, Marbella. Her manhwa dress is maybe a bit too fancy for a COLD weekday, but this?

Is it... entirely LACE? Now we know where the money went 😂

maybe Lloyd’s wearing some of his father’s clothes from when Arcos was a young man (which could account for that late 1700s—early 1800s mixed bag)

Totally. I mean, Frontera isn't just poor, it's also too far from either Cremo or the capital for the fashions to reach them in a timely manner. So not just Lloyd, but Marbella may be wearing Arcos' mother's dresses, especially since she herself is of common birth...

Huh. That's an angle I haven't considered before 😳 Headcanon tentatively accepted, though!

I hesitate to place TGED in any specific decade since it’s a fantasy world with many RL inspirations and many decidedly not

A *decade* would be too narrow, yeah. A loose time period to draw inspiration from, more like.

people continue to wear older fashions, simply because new clothing costs money, so it wouldn’t be inconceivable to see 1780s clothing in 1800 or 1790s pieces in 1820.

This 👏 Especially in regions away from the main culture points.

*//rant incoming*

I also like to consider the in-world logic ("medieval setting has dragons? Say goodbye to your pretty Gothic towers!" <- I loved that), and like. Alicia being military? That's double Empire influence for both male and female fashion. Not so good for the Rococo fluff (or even the chemise gown due to its colonialism origins and Marie-Antoinette popularizing it).

And they didn't unearth Herculaneum + Pompeii in TGED, either, so no Greek craze to drive that style forth.

Instead, we have the 16th c. inspiration in the form of the merchant guild having that particular look Meatloaf + Shiloh are sporting?

And some of the other background characters as well—so basically, Renaissance is free game!

...I've been thinking about it recently, and it means that 1830s may actually be more appropriate than previously considered? (Since they literally borrowed that look from the 16th c.— I mean:)

And probably some Medieval undertones? Especially for the royal retainers (like the Royal messenger, even though his design kind of looks like a theater costume).

*//end rant*

... But the Real History enjoyer in me doesn't quite agree to bending the rules like that 😂 Feel free to ignore that part, it was just me throwing ideas at a wall to see what stuck!

You really should do that post about Marbella!

liking that first photo set for her (esp the first two), the ringlets work best since she’s got a bit of wave to her bangs.

(*hug*) I really should, I've been sitting on it for, like, over a year 😭

Here's a higher-res version of that second portrait, plus another one that's kind of... the fandom vibe for her, with the flowers? It's not exact, but I keep mentally going back to it:

Alicia’s kind of a steampunk Hussar vibe if I recall correctly… along with more 1780s men’s fashion 💀)

Afdhkgllk I've never thought about it like that, but it's so fitting! Probably the novel artist googled historical women in uniforms and got a bunch of 1880s costumes? One day we'll get to her 🙏

Anyway, thank you for replying, I'm having so much fun with it 😘

[ginnala]

Knight (derogatory) 🗡️

[ginnala]

A year ago I would've looked at this and thought: same era? Same puffy sleeves, similar jewelry, square neckline and ridiculous hat...

They're centuries apart 😑

[ginnala]

Wanted to have these in a separate post because I think I'm funny 👍

[ginnala]

Wear your coat, man! Don’t go about undressed in public!

Exactly! Also, that time when Her Majesty was visiting their estate and Arcos was wearing trousers and a short blue jacket like he was about to head to La Revolution? ...Awkward.

Maybe og!Lloyd took his style and informality from his father :/

Lloyd: *dresses like a coachman*

Also Lloyd: Why does everyone assume Javier is the noble :/

(Clearly all the budget fashion sense in the family went to one person only. And that person isn't even Marbella 😭)

But I definitely got late Victorian vibes from Arcos (along with some Edward Ferrars/High Grant hair) and I still can’t find a good option for him (damn his clothes 😫)

I'm mostly just ignoring Arcos for now, that man doesn't know what he's doing and I'm waiting to decide on what Marbella looks like so that they could match.

Edward Ferras-esque hair is pretty good for him, though, so that's a plus towards Regency. Would be really funny if Arcos embraced the newest fashions while OG! Lloyd was still hobo-ing around in his decade-old clothes (because nobody wanted to risk getting close to take his measure or cut his hair). And Lloyd himself probably was apathetic to anything that wasn't drinking. Huh, it makes sense! I've connected the dots!

...KSH! Lloyd just thinks clothes are clothes, don't expect him to know what fashion is other than in theory 😂

For Marbella, I was going to have a post on it, but the problem is... Out of all the female cast, her dress is the most period-appropriate! But it's either the 1770s dress OR the 19th century hair, we can't have both :/ (Not that Siluria or Emily don't already borrow from the Victorian era, but one has to have standards!)

I agree that the Regency/Romantic era hairstyles are the winner for her, though. May I also offer some loose ringlets in addition to those 1820/30s structured ones?

And there are the late 1830/early Victorian styles when a lowish bun becomes an option:

I really don't want to go there, though. An 1770s dress with 1840s hair? It's not even funny :/

... BTW, would you like me to tag you on TGED fashion posts? I don't want to overstep 🥺

@fistfuloflightning

Would you like a historical Lloyd with a long ponytail?

Sir John Henderson of Fordell, by Gavin Hamilton, 1778.

[ginnala]

Local TGED Novel Enjoyer Despairingly Mournful Once Again After Reading Chapter 119