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ineffable-demonhunter · 3 years ago

Note

I wanna know your opinions on Lesson 16. Like that chapter is a whole shitshow in terms in everything from the whole time traveling in the revelations of how the brothers react to the MC's being the descendant of Lilith but most of all on how they brushed off no completely disregard on everything that happened right before. and Worst the after math of the chapters after that like Simeon made us become the family therapist cause the cow can't solve his own problems while the MC can't.

Obey Me: The Theory of Time Travel

Oh I have so many opinions on that whole mess 😱

Firstly, it's one giant time-loop plot hole. I can kinda see what they were going for, and with a bit of theorising I can fix it, but it would have been pretty easy for them to have made it a lot clearer.

Secondly, the aftermath is ridiculous. The whole murder and mauling is handwaved away, despite the demons previously being protective, and Belphegor and MC become good friends immediately. Uh... 🤨

Thirdly, the connection to Lilith is either badly explained, badly received, or both. Instead of the demons being happy that MC is alive, it instead comes across that they're just happy Lilith in some ways lives on through them, which is very ick.

Overall, I am not a fan.

But here are my theories that go someway to fixing each issue...

[Disclaimer: this is just my theory folks!]

Timey-Wimey

The biggest revelation at this stage of the game isn't anything to do with Lilith, but instead Barbatos. He is revealed to not only have the power of temporal displacement, sending someone to a different point in time, but also of temporal selection, the ability to choose which future is "real" after a change is made in the past.

Even if this power is restricted to the Devildom, and we don't know if it is, Barbatos has been positioned as the most powerful named being in the three realms.

As Satan comments, this is a massive power to have, and Barbatos could literally wipe everyone out in less than a blink of an eye if he so chooses. What limitations and side effects there may be to his powers we don't yet know. What we do know is that Diavolo has forbidden him to use his powers freely, or to travel in time himself.

Side note: Barbatos sounds similar to Chronos.

Chronos was the personification of time in Greek mythology, maintained a status higher than a deity, and over time became a mess of amalgamated properties from other figures (eg Kronos).

Chronos had the ability to see all time, past, present, and future, and is the source of various Greek legends of gods being their own fathers and sons.

Barbatos emphasises his age to MC, which is important to recognise - in the Devildom, we already know that various characters are thousands of years old. What Barbatos is telling MC is that he is older than that.

This is further underlined in his later comments to Diavolo as "young master", and the fact that although Barbatos is traditionally the name of a fallen angel, Barbatos has been in the Devildom far longer than the brothers - and perhaps far longer than Diavolo too.

A "young master" implies an old master(s).

As I mentioned recently, one wonders just who is the true king of the Devildom 👀👀

Timeline 1

In the first timeline, MC is nearly attacked by Lucifer in the library before the other demons join them to try and calm things down. Instead, Belphegor strolls in and reveals he was imprisoned in the attic by Lucifer, and loosely blames his escape on MC.

MC then leaves with Beel and Belphegor to Purgatory Hall. Belphie is imprisoned by Diavolo, Lucifer reveals the truth about Lilith to his family and MC, and Barbatos sends MC back in time to see how Belphegor escaped from the attic.

At Purgatory Hall before MC goes back in time, Simeon reestablishes that the attic door required six of Belphegor's siblings to open the door, not necessarily six brothers as Belphegor originally said.

Belphegor also reveals the words he heard when asleep that woke him.

This means that we know the door could only have been opened by all six brothers, or by five brothers and Lilith.

Side note: Simeon knows Belphie was imprisoned.

He is the writer of The Seven Lords, which in volume seven has the Lord of Emptiness rebel against the Lord of Corruption, who imprisons the former in a tower.

The TSL characters map exactly to the seven brothers, and thus this is the story of Lucifer imprisoning Belphegor.

TSL was also written long before events it describes actually happen to the brothers, which means either Simeon possesses the power to see into the future, or his co-writer or plot provider is Barbatos.

Simeon feigns surprise at Belphie having been locked up, just as he later prioritises Belphegor's feelings over MC by encouraging MC to play peacemaker despite their own trauma with the demon.

And we know from more recent lessons, that Simeon isn't nearly as angelic as Luke...

Timeline 2

Barbatos sends MC through a door to the past with the instructions of not revealing they are from the future, not to reveal themself to anyone, and to exit via the same door to return. Not fulfilling these instructions will warp time.

However, the door he opens leads to a room of demons (the brothers hiding from past MC and Lucifer in the library), meaning the second instruction is impossible to fulfil.

MC next experiences two somewhat strange encounters as they avoid running into their past self talking with Lucifer, by ducking into Lilith's room. First with Leviathan who refers to Lilith's room as the player character's, that the player is playing hide and seek with Belphegor, and makes it clear this isn't the same Leviathan that was just in Mammon's room.

MC next goes to the stairs and overhears Lucifer and Belphegor arguing. This is unlikely to be present time, as Lucifer is not in this location, and wouldn't be making it so obvious that Belphegor was present.

Theory: these are Lilith's memories.

This is foreshadowing MC's encounter with Lilith herself, proving that she has indeed been watching over her brothers this whole time. We know that MC has the power to see Lilith's memories, usually triggered by something or someone else.

MC makes their way up to the attic, where the door is shut. MC touches the door, which opens.

This is the point where the past becomes warped.

This is important - five brothers did not touch the door. They are all in Mammon's room, hiding, and in the first timeline they rushed straight to the library when they heard Lucifer losing control.

The only person we know for sure touched the door, is MC.

MC has the option of repeating the same words Belphegor said he heard when he was woken up in the first timeline, and he sleepily thinks the speaker is Lilith before waking fully and realising it is MC.

Belphegor then proceeds to attack MC, and at the point of death MC blacks out and speaks with Lilith. The eighth sibling reveals she is a spirit, a soul who upon death remembered her previous life as an angel. She has watched over her brothers, and can now speak with MC because they are her distant heir.

Lilith may or may not have touched the door - her existence is incorporeal which may or may not be a hindrance to the magic upon the door.

Conclusion: the door was opened by MC alone or by MC and Lilith.

The touch of the five other brothers was provided by MC due to MC having the pacts. These pacts acted as if the demons themselves touched the door.

The sixth touch was either the spirit of Lilith, or by MC again as Lilith's distant heir.

Remember - these siblings are not related by blood, they are a chosen family. But MC is related to Lilith by blood, thus could provide the touch of Lilith to the magic upon the door.

Additionally, we know that MC has not been near the door since making the fifth demon pact with Satan. That pact was made during the fake game in which the brothers pretended to disappear, resulting in MC being in the library with Lucifer when Belphegor appeared in the first timeline.

Timeline 3

Near the point of death MC is rushed down to the entrance hall, while MC's consciousness shifts to an unharmed version of MC standing in the stairwell.

At this point in time there are either two or three MCs existing in the same timeline: the MC that was with Lucifer in the library previously; the MC that went back in time and was attacked by Belphegor; and the MC that now stands in the stairwell.

The first MC would be the one who was originally going to be sent back in time. The second MC is the one who did go back in time. And the third MC is...

Theory: the third MC is the first MC.

In this changed timeline, there is no Belphegor that bursts into the library, no trip to Purgatory Hall, no imprisonment by Diavolo, and thus no time travel via Barbatos.

In some time loop scenarios, the plot works so that the original past-self still has opportunity to time travel backwards, thus preserving the loop and allowing the present to continue.

However in this scenario, we know that Barbatos has the power of temporal selection - that is, he can decide which of the possible futures is the one to become reality.

With such a power, he only needs someone to go back and make a change - to warp history. Once that change is made, he can select the future he desires, without need of a time loop that keeps making that choice.

In a nutshell: MC warped time, and Barbatos uses that to change the outcome of events.

MC goes back in time and opens the attic door. This explains why Belphegor was originally free to stroll out of the attic, because the eventual chosen future was going to have MC touching the door with five demon pacts. His door opens due to this time warp and Barbatos' selection.

The MC who is sent back in time is nearly killed, but at the same time, there is now no need for an MC to go back in time as the change is fixed in place by Barbatos. Therefore the redundant MC ceases to exist and is merged with the existing MC. So the very original MC is reselected as the correct MC, but with the memories of everything that happened to the interim MC that heard the story from Lucifer, went back in time, and made the change.

🤯

Why Didn't Belphegor Attack First?

In the original timeline, Belphegor appeared in the library and did not attack MC.

The reason for this at least is straightforward - Belphie is the weakest of all seven demons, and would stand no chance attacking MC in front of his brothers. Firstly, he wouldn't even reach MC. Secondly, he'd lose all sympathy and take the focus away from Lucifer being the "bad guy".

It is likely this Belphegor would have attacked MC if he was ever given the opportunity, but Beel stayed present until he was imprisoned once more.

This Belphegor still hated humans and wanted them dead. He just didn't get the chance.

But The Door...

So what about the second instruction Barbatos gave MC, that to return to the present they had to exit via the same door they entered?

After being attacked, MC appears in the stairwell and goes out into the hall, thus showing the demons that there are two MCs and arguably giving away that they are from the future. MC does not go back through the door that is somewhere within Mammon's room.

Theory: no door is needed due to temporal selection

The original plan was for MC to ascertain who opened the door, and to report back. However, this became impossible before MC was attacked by Belphegor.

The act of MC opening the door changed the mission from one of mere temporal displacement, to one of temporal selection. MC warped history with that act. Barbatos used his powers to select the corrected version of reality, merged MC back with their original self, and the interim MC ceased to exist.

Headcanon: because this is a case of temporal selection and merging, it could be argued that the brothers would then recall memories of both versions of events too.

No exit door was needed, due to the temporal selection Barbatos made, and his reuniting of the different MCs into one. The timeline in which an MC is sent back to the past no longer exists, but the combined MC retains the memories.

Remember, Barbatos' instructions were for avoiding the warping of time.

He didn't say what would happen if time was warped. Once the change happened, the warp was made, and he tidied everything up.

The Reaction

MC is able to persuade most of the brothers of the truth, due to MC's knowledge of what Lucifer told them of Lilith, and their own conversation with Lilith herself.

However, the brothers do not seem to be aware of the powers of Barbatos, or perhaps he does this so rarely they forgot. Either way, it takes Diavolo and Barbatos showing up with explanations for everything to click fully into place.

This is further proof btw of MC needing no exit door. Barbatos at any point in time remains aware of any timeline displacement, and came to MC, not the other way round. Diavolo, who is familiar with the time powers of his butler, is unphased.

The reaction to MC a) being alive, and b) being a distant heir of Lilith is troubling. Conflation of the two result in the brothers appearing to only value the latter, when we know that isn't true - they were distraught when MC was near death in Mammon's arms.

Their joy is both for MC being alive, and MC being proof that Lilith found love, the one thing she truly desired. All but Lucifer thought Lilith was dead, and have mourned her for centuries, only to discover that their beloved sister lived the happy life she craved, and that there is real solid proof of that fact in the existence of MC.

However.

The demons seem to completely minimise the trauma MC just went through at the hands of Belphegor.

Theory: the brothers don't know MC remembers.

When timelines are shifted about or magic is utilised, people can lose the memories of what happened to their "other self". The brothers perhaps assume that because they saw both MCs existing at the same time, that the MC in front of them did not experience what happened to the other MC.

That said, they certainly know what Belphegor did, but appear to forgive him instantly. This simply doesn't make sense given the behaviour of them all up until this point.

The brothers would be furious with Belphegor, to different degrees, and Mammon in particular would be enraged, and extra protective of MC. There's no way in hell that MC's guardian demon would let Belphegor anywhere near them.

There's no theorising a way out of this, it's just poor writing.

The Aftermath

No time, thought, or consideration is given to MC to process what they just went through. No conversation options let MC tell anyone that they remember the attack. No options allow MC to express fear, hurt, or anger.

Instead MC must patch up Belphie's relationship with each brother, from previous estrangement and nothing to do with the attack.

This is honestly extremely erasing, and gives these lessons little heart to hold on to. What should have been space for some really good drama, event processing, and healing as human and their demon family, is instead glossed over with little of substance.

Again, there's no theorising for this part, it's just poor writing.

The Easy Fix

Making these lessons make sense would have been fairly straightforward.

An example:

- Barbatos makes no mention of exiting time travel via a door. Instead past Barbatos will help MC, as he is aware of his future and past selves.

- Not showing the brothers waiting on MC in a different timeline, this really confuses things. Merge their memories instead, similar to MC.

- When MC goes back in time and touches the door, they feel their pacts activate and the door opens.

- When MC is attacked they are either a) healed by Lilith's spirit which helps the spirit ascend to heaven and find peace, b) healed via the power of the pacts, c) things play out as in canon but with a proper explanation that the timelines are now merged.

- Barbatos explains after the merging why the attic door originally opened.

This merging is really the important fact, and one we know to be true because of MC carrying all the memories of the different variations despite at one point literally jumping into a different body.

There was no timeline left dangling with demons waiting at a door for their MC, there is only one timeline made up of separate orders of events, merged into one.

Focusing on merging rather than choosing a timeline would have made this much clearer. Because yes, Barbatos did select the future he wanted to happen, but in doing so he merged what had gone before, leaving nothing left over.

That's my theory anyway!

Timey-wimey though, ya don't want to mess with this stuff. It's usually a plot disaster 👀

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