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junewild · 1 day ago

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...can i ask about the being born into a cult and getting your family out thing? If not, totally get it, disregard this ask. Aside from local mormons, I've never talked to anyone who was born into or joined a cult. Just curious

Thank you for asking! I've been sitting on this because it's SUCH a can of worms to open! Not in an emotional way—it's been a long time since I left and I'm doing good now! Just in a, like, where do I start way? lmao

Sticking it behind a readmore because... man, it's long. It's very long.

So, and I do realize I'm fully doxxing myself if anyone who's familiar with this particular little church runs into this blog (though that's unlikely, due to its size and internet habits), this was a ~200-person fundamentalist Calvinist church wrapped up around a couple of central men with strong personalities. My parents didn't intentionally "join a cult." They needed to pull my older sister out of school since there were no schools in the area that had special needs programs that could actually care for her properly. There were two sets of homeschoolers in the city: the crunchy moms, and the fundie moms. And my parents were ex-military and lightly religious, so the crunchy moms did not particularly welcome them. So they ended up coming to church with one of the fundie moms and just got sucked into the community.

It didn't start out too bad, from a cult perspective. When I was young, it was mostly just really patriarchal. The former pastor's doctoral thesis was on the Pauline doctrine of male headship (he was for it). It was still a little cultier than your average fundie church, but it wasn't until I was a teenager that it really got bad. The elders forced the former pastor out for spurious reasons and took control of the church and things got a lot more intense very quickly.

When I was younger we had a fairly diverse set of co-ops and extra credits (science, Friday school, English, theatre, soccer, volleyball, my parents' homeschool nonprofit, AWANA, historical costuming), but by the time I was in my early teens, that had narrowed significantly. Everyone's social life was almost entirely the church. I saw them four to six times a week—at church, which sometimes lasted as long as eighteen hours between early morning Bible study, service, potluck lunch, and after-church socialization, at small group Bible study, at outdoor social time one or twice a week when the weather was good, at humanities class, at Greek or Latin class, at Keepers at Home (fundies' response to Girl Scouts, which focuses on teaching you homekeeping and proper young womanly behavior), at English country dances... I keep trying to end the list and finding another thing that we did together.

It was a very syncretic kind of group. They took ideas from a lot of different places—Vision Forum, whose leader, Doug Wilson (who I've met!) was recently supported by Pete Hegseth in saying that the household should vote together (not quite that the 19th amendment should be repealed... but... they do believe that in private), Focus on the Family, IBLP (of recent Shiny Happy People notoriety—fun fact, I dated the brother of one of the people who was quoted about Generation Joshua! you absolutely should watch it if you're interested in what the fuck is going on with the religious right in politics rn), Mike and Debbie Pearl of To Train Up A Child (CW for severe child abuse)—but without necessarily aligning themselves with any one organization. They were denominational, RPCGA in particular (Westminster Confession of Faith, Sola scriptura, young-earth creationists, anti-homosexuality, anti-feminist, anti-charismatic and dispensationalist, anti-Arminian, anti-abortion, anti-humanism, anti-Catholic, anti-Baptist—there was a family who held Baptist beliefs in our congregation and they were refused communion for as long as I was still there).

Major things that I can remember:

Antipolitical. Fiscally and socially conservative, but none of the existing politicians were conservative enough for them. They'd look askance at J.D. Vance and Pete Hegseth for being too liberal. Very libertarian (but not in favor of Ron Paul), to the point of stupidity. One boy genuinely argued that he should get to have a tank in his backyard, you know, for second amendment reasons.

End of the world preppers, but a little ironically. Genuinely concerned that the government (or "the left") was coming for them, but not in an Alex Jones way. One of the elders bought a specific farm because (only partly joking) it had a big ditch around the place and they could "blow the bridge" in case of a military standoff.

Extremely, extremely intellectual and literate and elitist about it. I was in an advanced humanities class called Gileskirk taught by a man named George Grant that focused on teaching us the classics (I can recite entire sections of the Iliad and Paradise Lost. We did a play of Pilgrim's Progress and another one of John Calvin's life). The four units were called "Antiquity," "Christendom," "Modernity," and "America." My language requirements were Latin and Koine Greek. The correct answer to "what is culture?" was "religion externalized" and I was docked points for trying to answer it from an anthropological perspective on my first day of class. One of my classmates once argued that we should be able to kill all Muslims for virtue of being Muslim, and there was dead silence in the room for several minutes after I pointed out that doing that would make us no better than Hitler killing Jews for being Jewish. They could argue apologetics knowledgeably from St. Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, R.C. Sproul, Charles Coulson, John Gerstner, and other major Christian apologists. I went to several Ken Ham conferences. One of my favorite films was The Creation Adventure Team—although, I've gotta be honest, my favorite part was the making-of that talked about how they designed all the props.

Non-evangelical. They did not believe in actively seeking to convert people to their religion, and were not particularly concerned about convincing people to join their church. They were Chosen, and Holy, and Better Than Thou. The rest of the world is damned anyway, and they deserve it. They were the City On The Mount, convicting those around them through their correct behavior. Their job was not to convert the rest of the world, but to outbreed the rest of the world.

Extremely patriarchal. The man is the head of the house. Women can't have jobs. Some of the women bragged that they didn't even go grocery shopping without their husband. Women were never to speak out against men. Women were not to speak out in church, or lead anything except for groups of other women—not even their sons, once they turned thirteen or so. When my parents thought about putting me in conservative Christian homeschool speech and debate, the elders approached my dad to say that they should reconsider, because I would be debating against boys, and that might undermine their masculinity and teach me bad habits about femininity and submission. (Thankfully, in one of the very rare incidents where my dad had my back, she told them that she was the head of her household and she'd make that decision for herself.) The choir leader, an extremely competent woman with a degree in choir direction, was demoted and replaced by a nineteen year old boy with a guitar.

Quiverfull. No birth control was allowed. Families were expected to be large. Most of the families in that church had between eight and fourteen children.

Modesty. Women had to be VERY modest always (I did debate with the family who made this!). More modest than this survey, even. They didn't have to, like, wear headscarves—that would be legalism, and we weren't crazy like those people. I got my first pair of jeans when I was 16, and they were kinda edgy, because some of the girls only ever wore ankle-length skirts. I got my first pair of shorts after I left that church entirely. When I was twelve, one of the moms leaned over to me and say "hey, your husband is going to love it if you have long, beautiful hair" and it scared me so bad I grew out my hair until I left the church (and then I immediately cut it off, realized that I liked it better long for me, and grew it out again).

Purity culture. Courtship was required. If a boy and a girl liked each other, he would speak to her father, and her father would (hopefully) give his permission, and then their families would spend more time together while the boy and the girl got to know each other better, always with a chaperone, and maybe hold hands sometimes, and then they would get engaged (after, again, asking her dad's permission again), and then they would get to spend a little more time together (always with a chaperone, although maybe they would stand a little further away sometimes), and then they would get married, and then they would have their very first kiss at the altar in front of everyone they knew. and then get a raging UTI on the honeymoon because nobody ever told them how sex worked. In spite of the purity shit, or because of it, there was incest (parental sexual abuse, sibling age gap sexual abuse, and sibling same-age sexual experimentation) happening in every single elder's family—and a few others.

Child discipline. Extremely abusive. To Train Up A Child. I don't really want to say more.

Self-sufficiency. The elders all happened to have high-paying jobs as professionals, but they encouraged everyone to live on a farm and talked big about being a tradesman who works for himself. Interestingly, the elders' sons have also gone into computer science or law or other high-paying sectors. I worry about their coworkers.

Major cult behaviors:

the elders served as living leaders who demanded absolute commitment

tithing was mandatory

questioning and doubt were strongly discouraged and often punished, eg that one Baptist family

people who "sinned" were put under church discipline, including being barred from communion (which everyone could see), being shunned from within the community, or being expelled from the community entirely and then shunned

for most people, the church was their entire social life, and was all-encompassing. many weeks I probably spent upwards of 60 hours engaged in church activities. those who didn't engage to that extent were edged out.

members were encouraged to cut ties with anyone who wasn't godly enough, including family, friends, neighbors, etc.

the leadership dictated in great detail exactly how people should think, act, and feel; what clothes they could wear; who and how to court and marry; where to work and what kind of work to do; how to discipline children; etc.

people, especially children, were constantly exploited for free labor (construction, childcare, farm work, etc). I was a mother's helper on a (poorly) working farm with 14 children who lived in a double-wide for a couple of summers. 0/10

they were elitist as act`ual fuck

distinct in-group and out-group, and everyone in the out-group was always trying to earn their way into the in-group

extremely polarized us-vs-them so intense that it included like, 99.9% of other Christians and probably 95% of fundamentalists

sure, the elders were technically accountable to the RPCGA... but also, they didn't care about that lol

Getting out was... tricky. When something has been your entire way of life for as long as you can remember, leaving is scary as fuck. But it was a little easier for me, because... one thing that I didn't mention above is that I was the cult scapegoat. For as long as I can remember, every man, woman, and child in that church disliked me specifically. I was subjected to some horrific bullying on a regular basis. I was constantly ostracized, criticized, made fun of, had rumors spread about me, etc. One girl tried to convince everyone that I had AIDS and was trying to baby-trap her brother. I still hadn't even kissed anyone at that point! I hadn't really considered it as an option! The people who didn't hate me pitied me, which was almost as bad. I still don't really know why. Some combination of... extremely smart + articulate (but NOT loud!) + autistic + female + pretty + athletically competent + gay (although I didn't really figure that out at all until I was 17), maybe? In hindsight, I realize that a lot of the boys around my age or a bit older had Feelings About Me, but I was never an acceptable person to court, so that led to several weird not-quite-flirtationships. Some of the young men enjoyed my company because I was smart and funny and too young for them to worry about encouraging interest in. (I still wonder if that fucked up my ability to make friends with people—a lot of my friends historically have been men a decade older than me.)

And, I mean, it really does a number on you. Having everyone you know, the people you spend 40-60 hours a week with, the people who are shaping everything about you at a very formative time in your life, actively hate you for no reason that you can tell? Not just hate you, but go out of their way to be unkind to you? All the kids your age, sure, but also all the adults? Every single one of them? No exceptions? And your only purpose is to get married and have twelve children, but also you're not an acceptable mate for anyone, so you'll never fulfill that purpose, but you have to fulfill that purpose, because there's nowhere else in the world for you to fit? Your husband will love your hair when it's long and beautiful, but don't talk to my sons for too long, you might give someone the wrong idea. Be perfectly put together, but don't be too put together. Don't be so worldly, but don't be so naive. Don't be too smart, or too good at sports, or too pretty, or too ugly, or too stupid, or too incompetent, or too mediocre, or too you. It was a deeply, deeply lonely and miserable time. But it also makes it easier to get out, because it fucking sucks, all the time, and there are no good parts.

It helped that my mom never fully bought into all of it. The other moms weren't kind to her, and she still held beliefs like "my daughters are whole people by themselves" and "maybe they should go to college to like, get a music degree in case their husband dies?" and "I want them to be happy more than anything else." I always knew she had my back. But there were miscommunications. She told me not to read Harry Potter (because she thought it got too dark too fast and I wasn't ready for it yet) and everyone else told me not to read Harry Potter because it has witchcraft in it so I assumed that's what she thought too. She didn't get me treatment for my early-onset bipolar (while I was writing this, I just remembered what might have been my first psychotic episode, when I was about eight, that I had forgotten about until now), but she did ask her friends who were nurses if she should. They told her no, because it was a big label to hang on a little girl, and the people at church told me that mental health was a lie and what was wrong with me was sin, so I assumed that's what she thought too. She gave up on spanking me when I was still young because I was so stubborn that it didn't work. (My dad... didn't.)

Part of the reason I got out was because of that speech and debate league my dad enrolled me in. I hated it at first because I had horrible social anxiety and I was extremely shy, but it turned out that I was very, very good at it. And, for the first time, people treated me like a person. Still a woman, of course—this was the very conservative homeschooled speech and debate league. But, like, people took my opinion seriously sometimes? People thought maybe I could go to college before I got married and had kids? For a real degree, not just so I could maybe have a side-gig as a music teacher? People... liked me? Like, enjoyed my company? Were friends with me? Were nice to me? Were in... like-like with me? (That's where I met the SHP guy's brother! Who later turned out to be a horrible person, but for different reasons.) It was a revelation.

So, when I was almost seventeen, I told my parents that I was miserable, that I hated going to church, that I wanted to go a different church. Not even stop going to church entirely—just go to a different church! Maybe one of the ones that one of my debate friends went to? They were still pretty conservative and fundamentalist—I've heard things from the people who got out of that culture with me that are pretty not great, although not quite on this level—they just... weren't that church. And my parents, worried by my history of self-harm, recent suicide attempt, and the evidence that I and my little sister (who wasn't bullied the way I was, but saw and heard everything about the way I was treated) laid out for them about the bullying (which they hadn't known all the details of), said... sure. We can try another church, for a little bit. My dad didn't want to leave our church, but she was willing to try going to another church just for, like, a month, to see how things were.

And the elders were not happy. The new pastor came in to counsel us, and he said that the problem was a) my mom, for not submitting to my dad hard enough, and b) me, for being antisocial. Apparently my habit of walking around the building by myself after church (a fairly recent habit! I spent most of my life trying really, really, really fucking hard to do it right!) was the reason that I was bullied, and not the result of the fact that everybody was mean to me all the time. He told my mom that it would be better for her to kick us (her 16 and 14 year old daughters) onto the streets than for my mother and father to... attend a different congregation that held functionally the same beliefs.

That still wasn't quite enough to convince my dad, but we went to another church for a couple of weeks. And then the new pastor ran into me at the county fair, and, in front of my sister and another friend, threatened to revoke my family's membership from the rolls (which he knew my dad would be upset about) if I didn't submit to 1:1 counseling with him. Which... might not have been what it sounded like, but... well, yikes. I went home and told my dad, and, in another of the very rare incidents where where my dad had my back, she went into the other room and called the pastor to let him know he could take us off the rolls. And that was our official exit from the church.

And now, twelve and a half years of deconstruction and research and therapy later, I'm mostly normal about it most of the time. Everyone else in my family is still carrying it with them, and I don't blame them. It was a lot.

I'm really lucky. I got out, and all I lost was seventeen years of self-esteem and safety and healthy formative experiences. A lot of the others didn't. I'd hope they're doing okay, but I know they aren't. I hope their kids get out someday. I'll be here, on the other side, if they do.

#k talks #askposting

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