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melonheim · 1 month ago

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On Till’s (general emotional journey), his place in the karmic cycle occurring in Alien Stage’s ending, how he subverts the cruelty of self-punishment into a journey of personal growth, self-reflection, and gentle closure

And the reconciliation with Ivan that he never got to have

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(Pretty long post )

All Panels from the "Remember everything" comic are a fan translation by @/ka_akeakamai

All panels from the "Scars" comic are a fan translation by @/manipuIatedstar

Ivan and Till's relationship has miscommunication and misunderstanding threaded into every aspect of their story. It eventually becomes tragic and pitiful when you realize they would've been so different if only they were more honest and understood each other better, especially with the examples that will be shown in this post

This foundation set for their relationship then planted the seeds for the actions that will induce a consequence (for Till's karma), as is the principle applied to the karmic cycle that says every action will come with a consequence [ a search for atonement]

The meteor shower was the seed, the "catalyst" for Ivan and Till's earliest development and dynamic shift, one of the "causes"-- when Till turned back and ran to the garden without a word Ivan didn't notice his hesitance, to put it into Ivan's perspective, he internalized this moment by assuming the situation would be better off if he no longer imposed his feelings on Till like before [Ivan's emotional expression has always been shown in the way he provoked Till or stuck by his side constantly,] If Till really preferred going back to the garden where he would continue to suffer just to be with Mizi-- to Ivan it proved that he wasn't truly wanted, he didn't mean as much to Till as he might've hoped for. (In short, Ivan took it as a rejection of his feelings as a whole.)

In the aftermath, Ivan didn't dissapear, didn't stop loving Till, but he did change the way he approached him, he began creating emotional distance from Till in certain, calculated ways [Back to the way Ivan shows his affection, the way he started subtly withdrawing, stopping Till from fighting with him and starting to show concern in secret and looking out for Till when he wouldn't notice was Ivan closing himself off from Till and shutting him out, especially as they got older, Ivan learned to become more evasive, like a shield.] So he started repressing his emotions, and voluntarily accepted staying in Till's shadow ("just enough to stay without being greedy")

Till wasn't being intentionally cruel; he was also just scared, scared of abandoning Mizi to escape and face the unknown outside of his comfort zone. We never do see Till confronting Ivan during or after the meteor shower because what Ivan and Till do when they fall out is not communicate, they just barely float around each other for a moment until they come back together. In this case, because Ivan wouldn't bring it up, Till didn't bring it up either. Till's emotional response to what he can't understand or cannot reconcile with almost always circles back to avoidance and denial [for instance, the gist of Mi Vida Loca is Till's avoidance and fears, and denial of the reality, all because he cannot find himself letting go in the face of rejection or fear, but all he wants to do is keep loving and chasing regardless]

Till isn't adept at handling social situations, certainly not feelings. He's especially careless about his interpersonal relationships, even though he cherishes them deeply, but his mind is always somewhere else, or he's too absorbed in his music to really see it, and he always finds himself too afraid to make the first move, always waiting or yearning or keeping to himself

Really, he's kind of simple-minded -> Till resolves the situation by not confronting/handling it because of the shame he had [for years, I imagine he grew to suppress these memories and avoid them until the present day]. Hell, maybe he didn't even have the words to explain it without a proper understanding of himself or Ivan or emotional maturity.

At the end of the day, neither he nor Ivan said a word about it; they didn't stop being together all the time, but something about their previous dynamic changed. And it didn't fix a thing

For years, Ivan and Till functioned like that, close but always circling around each other, avoidance, suppression, ignorance, but with Till, I wonder if there was an implicit trust that they would always be together anyway (it really just reminds me that he didn't anticipate going up against Ivan, and even post-cure, Ivan is always meant to return to him)

Years later, once the consequence is played out through Ivan's death, Till is once again grappling with denial and avoidance as he is alone to process all of this at once. The guilt and the suppressed feelings come back to him. During round 6, Till wanted to escape this exact scenario; he was fully ready to forfeit his life to Ivan to avoid living with all the failure and sorrow in his life, but [Till's "karma"] is being forced to acknowledge the reality, face it for the first time anyway without his defenses, even the loss he couldn't handle

This karma of his was innately set up to be a cycle of self-blame and self-destruction out of grief and trauma. If he chose to keep running and avoiding confrontation. His guilt would always be there, tormenting him, and so Ivan would never disappear. Till would end up staying stuck, walking in circles because of the past, and finding relief in causing wounds to keep things at bay. Worst case scenario, he would've destroyed himself to death

But here's the part where I believe he subverts "expectations" or breaks the typical flow of this cycle before it has the chance to break him

A rebellion member is killed on a mission, and the stray bullet injures Till. Of course, Till would feel upset for the life of another, especially since he couldn't do anything for them, but I'm almost certain that this scene was meant to play out as a reflection of Till's guilt and fears. It's to convey that Till is still haunted by these scenarios where he's helpless to the situation, people die all around him, and there's nothing he can even do about it. His guilt and self-loathing are endlessly eating at him, mocking him (Just the same way his hallucination of Ivan would say, "look at you, you're nothing but a burden." [Till hates feeling useless, pitifully weak]

Till breaks down to Isaac, it's implied more directly that Till's guilt over that incident is tied back to how tormented he is by the past. Till would continue to crush his own heart over his guilt, if Till doesn't move on and forgive himself, he's just going to continue to suffer and hate himself for the rest of his life over and over again, he'll continue to be reminded, that's just the cycle of trauma, [and that is how self-hatred plays out in these little ways, repetitively. Because of the person's perceived wrongdoings]

It could've been entirely unlikely that Till would've escaped this on his own if not for Isaac's advice-- he's told he should let go of the past and move forward, but Till knows in his heart that he doesn't want to let go, even though he wants to be freed, he doesn't want to forget it, it's all he's ever known for the majority of his life. That's why Ivan stays. If Till meant what he said by wanting Ivan to leave ages ago, Ivan would have been gone, but there's something within Till that is keeping him here. (Something unsaid, that he and 'Ivan' both know. Questions that have come back to the surface, being suppressed again and again out of fear, linger after all this time. I believe that's what pushes Till to really "confront" Ivan)

As I explained in another post, Till gets agitated when "Ivan" is casually checking on him and making the situation seem more mundane and casual than it actually is, just like he would do in the Garden.

Rewinding back to their days in Anakt Garden, after the meteor shower, it is my speculation that Till had many instances where he felt confused and irritated with Ivan for his behavior. Ivan was not good at calculating how Till would actually take these actions, even if they were small and "mellowed out." And Till, for his part, grew accustomed to ignoring Ivan and easily biting back what he actually felt behind bitter curses

When Till is reminded of this exact scenario in the present, he's sincerely upset and wonders why Ivan would never just ask if he was alright, ever. What does the hallucination of Ivan do...he deflects the question just like Ivan would have in the garden

Beneath this, in Till's words, there is a want, there is the deep-seated feeling of waiting for the people around him to ask about his feelings, to reach out first because he was a lonely child, he craved understanding and people, but was too scared to ask for it. But when Ivan always stuck around him and bothered him but didn't ask him about anything, he was left wondering why Ivan didn't care about him more, he was left questioning if Ivan ever did, and there it is, the core misunderstanding of each other

[Just like the behavior Till's hallucination of Ivan exhibits by avoiding elaboration and deflecting, this is the reason why Ivan and Till never properly connected with each other.]

Ivan and Till don't talk; Ivan is stubbornly resolute in his mindset, and Till remains stuck in place with apprehension and simple ignorance [A simple-minded guy at the time]. If they're left to their devices, they ultimately come to misguided conclusions about each other. Like Ivan not caring, Till not caring, then they never ask each other

How is Till simple-minded? pt.2 -> Well, he's not dumb, but he's naive. Always distracted, especially in the past with Mizi, without looking deeper into it and only absorbing how Ivan treated him in comparison to how he desired to be treated by people he cared about, back then they were immature children after all, when Till was spending day to day just trying to get by and feeling mostly confused by Ivan, it was easiest to assume things about Ivan that weren't true, especially in the instances where it'd seem like Ivan didn't even consider Till a friend, yet Till always cared about him

Till wonders why Ivan never asked him if he was okay, but in these scenarios where you're left asking why, maybe it is just that the other person was waiting for you to ask, too. It is just that Ivan wouldn't have known Till wanted him to care deep down if he thought Till disliked him so much, just as much as it would've been near impossible for Till to decipher Ivan's feelings if Ivan was always running and hiding. They both needed each other, but were actively denying themselves that because they were too scared of initiation, too scared to ask and get hurt, the Till of the present is understanding enough to realize that, fairly quickly, when he starts thinking back.

So when it comes to Ivan and Till's mutual misunderstanding, that's why Till was so stunned to realize something like Ivan actually caring about what he did, when otherwise, Till was too embarrassed to show him, and didn't think about whether Ivan would like it or not, if he could never read Ivan's feelings clearly. In Scars, we see him once again dismissing the thought and suppressing that revelation and the feelings that come with it, because of fear. Till was still avoiding and tiptoeing around the past.

However, this time it occurs to Till just how much time has passed-- Till has always had Ivan by his side, never imagined anything but-- now he's simply growing up without him. Till realizes he's been free, he's been doing things on his own, learning to ride a motorcycle, drawing, but he's been alone. (even though his vision of freedom would've always been alongside his friends, over being alone like this.) He's not used to being alone; most of all, he doesn't want it. So he doesn't let go of Ivan, yet again lacking the initiative to confront the situation, it never fixed anything when Till first woke up in the rebellion. It torments him; he's alone. But loneliness... that's why Ivan is here too [that's why he's always been there.]

Rather than a figure shrouded in darkness or a corpse coming back to haunt Till, it's just a child. There's a gentleness to the way Till sees Ivan now in contrast to Scars when he's coming to confront his grief and regrets directly. He had lost something irreplaceably precious to him before he could realize what it really even meant, before it was too late .

He remembers it was always Ivan desperately finding ways to get excuses to be with him by any means, good attention or not. Till didn't notice that it was because they were so alike. Lonely and needed someone

Back then, he could've never imagined that Ivan was so timid

Till just didn't understand it at the time, and so couldn't find the words to elaborate on the subject of Ivan, but it was always Ivan in his peripheral vision, no matter what. If only they both knew the word "family" = [how to confront each other], they could've prevented their suffering

[it’s a pitiful circumstance], but what Till feels isn’t pity, nor sympathy, but rather Till is understanding. He’s finally understood why Ivan always followed him around and did the strange things he did in the past, which held him back from truly connecting with Ivan, because they both came to constant clashes because of their fundamental differences

That's the thing that makes Till's path different to me, it's that he could've easily spiraled further into guilt for not realizing it sooner,

Instead of continuing to be angry, resentful, afraid, remorseful--instead of falling further into self-hatred, etc. He acknowledges and understands Ivan. Till's compassion and care effortlessly reaches out to him, he accepts Ivan, knowing they were both going through similar things and that Ivan was also afraid, even though it will never be the same as coming to understand the real Ivan, the point of Till's breakdown is his realization that this is all coming to him way too late. If only they had the time and the knowledge, they could've fixed this. He's regretful, but through this, he's making amends.

I'd like to believe there is forgiveness in there, too. For both of them, effortlessly loving, unconditionally, is in Till's nature (and it seems like as he's grown post-cure, he has become a more understanding person). This is rightful reassurance for two characters who didn't know how much they truly meant to each other, and couldn't have a better relationship. For Till, who couldn't shake the regret of overlooking Ivan for so long that he believes he caused this-- he gets to finally understand himself and Ivan by seeing his own pains reflected in him, and then he comes to come to truly know Ivan after all this time

For Ivan to be acknowledged and accepted [and loved] just like he's always wanted, is in its own way, closure for them both. Even despite its tragedy. ["to love is to be seen"] <- in a way, you know, they both desired to be seen and healed. Now Till's own love and care for Ivan is shown more clearly in his actions as he finally allows himself to come to peace with what he's been avoiding for decades of their relationship

Really... Till is so filled with love, only love can do what he did for Ivan

This moment gives Till a freeing sense of peace, metaphorically and literally. After that day, years have passed, and Ivan still hasn't come back to him. Till is devoted to living alongside the suffering he knows and the memories, not leaving them behind or treating them like a disposable part of himself, since Ivan will always be someone he cherished and cared about.

Till's character being able to make it out of this in a gentle way, therefore reaffirming his nature, is what I value most. I say he subverts the outline slightly because, for Luka and Mizi, specifically Mizi, for instance, who also needs closure, she's stuck in a loop of self-atonement and loneliness for things she can't take back, she's been living in her own personal hell for ages, she can't forgive herself and she must still believe she deserves it. It's uncertain if she'll really be able to grow and continue living despite it, like Till did, or if it is certainly her fate to never be able to escape herself. The one thing she has to fight for is to understand and forgive herself first. But I believe they all have it in them to make it, I believe they're all meant to at some point

Till was just narrowly close to losing himself to grief and sorrow. But he's always had a knack for coming back from the brink, and with a newfound sense of bravery and growth and understanding, most importantly, love-- he does what he couldn't do before. He decided to confront Ivan and the suppressed feelings. He decides to search for Mizi because what they need together is family and closure. By doing this, he would be cherishing Ivan's memory, by repurposing the suffering and the love into something even more profound (you know 🫩)

#🥲 sooo perfect thank you for this op #t

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