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they say “all’s fair in love and war” and “everyone’s allowed to make mistakes”, but when i, paris of troy-

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crazy to me that the trojans and achaeans (premodern armies in general, really) just kinda... stopped fighting after sundown.

i mean obviously it makes sense; it's not as if they had floodlights or nv goggles; it would have been pitch black, and melee combat in those conditions would be suicide. plus they just needed to sleep.

but also it's just. funny to think about. does the fighting taper off gradually or does everyone just drop their weapons and shake hands once the sun goes down like “gg, nighty night, same time tomorrow?” i assume the former but also what if it's like 9pm and there's two guys with personal beef still going at it. does the whole camp watch, exasperated, sipping wine and wrapped in blankies, waiting for one of them to finally die and get it over with?

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I’ve been thinking about Hermione recently and purely from a logistical perspective: where is she living during the Trojan War? Her mother was kidnapped and her father is off fighting the war to get her mom back. So both of her parents are gone. Sure, she could be living raised by the servants. But I have an idea I like better:

What if she was sent to live with her cousins in the House of Atreus? Clytemnestra was there raising her 3 children there. She could have more playmates, be around family, all sorts of stuff. And of course it changes everything in the Oresteia.

I’m becoming obsessed with this dynamic now. It makes the entire sibling relationships in the House of Atreus ten times more complicated.

Hermione is the one piece of Helen that Clytemnestra has with her, the one piece of her sister. She may never see her sister again, but she can shelter this piece of her. Give her love. Hermione is a reminder of all the war has taken from her.

Orestes would grow up, at least partially, around the girl he’s supposed to marry. They would be friends, playing in the same gardens. Running around causing trouble like kids do. It makes both of their futures all the more tragic. He has to follow the will of the gods knowing he might not get the future promised to him, a future that’s not so bad. And Hermione has her bright future ripped away from her and forced into a marriage with someone she hates and someone who hates her.

And Elektra. No wonder she goes so mad. Her brother leaves, either by force or by her own doing, she’s lost her sister Iphigenia, her father, and her mother is neglecting and abusing her, claiming not to have enough love in her heart, yet here she is doting over her niece instead of her own daughter.

I just think that adds so much to all of it.

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more scenes that are in none of the trojan war/iliad adaptations i know even though i need them to be there:

agamemnon having a breakdown when menelaus gets stabbed in the thigh and menelaus being like dude….i’m fine…i’m not gonna die

helen being pissed off by paris

teucer being mad that his arrow didn’t strike hector because FUCKING APOLLO MISLED IT THAT BITCH (bonus when he also shouts that last part)

athena telling diomedes that he is not supposed to fight the gods except for aphrodite

teucer and great ajax brother scenes!!

a narrator listing the catalogue of ships either very monotone or overly dramatic (also because i think it would be very funny)

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bin jetzt fertig damit und omg goethe ist ja mal der größte orestes x pylades shipper den es gab

heute iphigenie auf tauris von goethe als reclam heft gekauft. @likely-lovers ich hoffe du bist stolz auf mich, dein einfluss ist real bzw deine reclam propaganda erfolgreich

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!!!teucer shooting those ambush attacks!!!

im rallying the other approximately five teucer fans with this one, we are few BUT WE ARE STRONG!!

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my favorite types of paris the musical songs are 1) people (especially helen) bullying paris, 2) songs with agamemnon being a little sly, greedy, dramatic bitch, 3) ulysses being tired of everyone’s shit and having umm ACTUALLY moments

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"Priam's wretched wife lost all she had, until at last she lost her human form."

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Odysseus ; Misinformation and debunking takes about him

1 - Odysseus only cared about Penelope and Telemachus

Odysseus cared about Penelope and Telemachus a lot, but they were definitely not the only people he cared about, Odysseus did care about his crew and he cared about some of his other companions during the trojan war(which Will be elaborated more on in a later point) but from the people he cared about the most were his parents Anticlea and Laertes. He cares about Penelope and Telemachus the most but he still cares for other people and it's a misunderstanding of his character to say he doesn't.

2 - The Odysseus cheating discourse

Whether or not Odysseus cheated is up to what myths you choose and choose not to believe because Odysseus does have myths where he cheats with 4 women that aren't Circe or Calypso and has children with all of them the sources are Sophocles and Apollodorus who ARE valid sources before anyone goes to argue about how they aren't Homeric, Homer isn't the only person allowed to write about Odysseus and I'm saying this as someone who favours Homeric Odysseus more than other versions. I'm not giving you a definitive answer Because just saying "he cheated" or "he didn't cheat" is wrong because Greek mythology has no canon believe what you like and ignore what you don't like I'm not gonna stop you. But do not list the Odyssey as a source for Odysseus cheating, it's basically the only source that Doesn't have Odysseus cheating on Penelope so bring up anything BUT the Odyssey as your source, considering Circe and Calypso rape him in the Odyssey it's just a disgusting thing to do.

3 - Odysseus wanted to kill Telemachus as an infant

People who say this clearly misunderstood the plow story, Palamedes put the infant Telemachus in front of Odysseus' plow while he was faking insanity and pretending to plow the fields with salt which caused Palamedes to figure Out Odysseus was lying. it's Odysseus NOT wanting to kill Telemachus that sent him to war, I think we should normalize having reading comprehension.

4 - Odysseus had to drop Astyanax 2/3 times because he didn't die the first time

First of all that's not how babies work or just people in general the first fall would've been enough to kill him, second of all no source states this, third of all where did this take come from.

5 - Odysseus could've beat Poseidon in the Odyssey

This is just straight up wrong, Odysseus could not have beaten a God no matter how hard he tried especially not one like Poseidon, he never gets close to ever beating Poseidon in the Odyssey, Epic is not a documentary.

6 - Odysseus isn't a liar

I don't know how people can even reach this conclusion considering that is quite literally the most prominent thing about Odysseus' entire character, a lot of his epithets have to do with the fact he is a cunning strategist and he lies multiple times Throughout the Odyssey and different sources too, Odysseus being a liar is what makes the story of the Odyssey so interesting because it's being told to us by an unreliable narrator so we don't know what's real and what's a lie, his lying is the biggest part about his character.

7 - Odysseus did nothing wrong

I see people say this a lot and it's clear they know nothing about Odysseus because Odysseus does do A LOT of fucked up shit and it's what I personally like about him if you can't handle that then maybe he's just not for you. Don't sanitize him. For starters here are some things Odysseus did because I don't have the time to list all of it

- sacked cities(Ismarus and Cicones)

- killed people

- war criminal

- took slaves such as Hecuba

- groomed a child into becoming a weapon of war(Neoptolemus)

And that's just to start.

8 - Odysseus raped Circe

In the Odyssey specifically, it's the other way around, Hermes instructs Odysseus not to deny Circe when she asks him to sleep with her so that he can get his men back, this is coercion which is a form of SA, Circe raped Odysseus not otherwise.

9 - Diomedes was the only person Odysseus got along with in the trojan war

Odysseus actually got along with many of his fellow achean comrades that weren't Diomedes, he was very close with both Menelaus and Agamennon especially and he got along with Achilles too, he also Expressed guilt for Ajax's death despite them not getting along, so no Diomedes was not his only friend during the trojan war, Odysseus had multiple allies.

10 - Odysseus' mother killed herself when she saw his ship getting dragged away by the storm

Anticlea did not kill herself, she died of grief while waiting for Odysseus to return.

11 - Odysseus is not muscular

Odysseus is described as being very wide and muscular in body type to make up for his short stature, he is very much muscular and designs of him that portray him as such are not "inaccurate" like I've seen people say. He is literally a warrior.

12 - The concept of Odysseus having only one son

Odysseus having only one son is again a concept mostly exclusive to Homeric works same as Odysseus' loyalty, the reason Telemachus goes out of his way to mention the one son family curse is because it was often disputed in those Times whether or not Telemachus was his only son, it's the same for the Iliad going out of it's way to state that Aphrodite is not a Goddess of war, it's there to show what Homer personally thought and multiple other sources detail Odysseus as having more children.

13 - Odysseus on Ogygia ; Odysseus and Calypso

A lot of misinformation is spread about Odysseus and Calypso, 1- no Calypso was not forced to fall in love with any man that showed up on her island 2- no she was not alone on Ogygia til Odysseus showed up she had multiple servants On Ogygia with her, Calypso was very much in her right mind and knew what she was doing to Odysseus it's stupid to try and defend her, she is Goddess taking advantage of a vulnerable mortal.

14 - Odysseus did not have slaves

Odysseus had multiple slaves, like Eurycleia and Eumaeus who though were treated well were still slaves at the end of the day, and trojan war prizes like the Queen of Troy Hecuba, and an unnamed slave girl that gets mentioned in Iliad book 1.

15 - Odysseus would've made it home faster if it weren't for the bag being opened

Odysseus could not have made it home faster even if the windbag wasn't opened, Odysseus was prophecized since the very start that he will take many years to return home if he were to go to war Which is why he feigned lunacy and didn't want to go. It was fate that caused Odysseus to return home late, and I'd have to say the biggest factor that caused Odysseus' return to take so many years is him revealing his name to Polyphemus due to his pride and not just the bag.

16 - Odysseus was the only good achean because he didn't rape anyone

No, because Odysseus did not rape anyone in any source but he was not good for it, Odysseus enabled his men to rape the Trojan women and women of Ismarus, he is a man of his time who is in support of these Crimes due to how normalized they were back in the day. And no him wanting to punish Ajax the lesser did not mean he cared about Cassandra or the rape of women in any way, he wanted to punish him because it happened in the temple of Athena, and in return was an insult to her.

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HELANDRA.

YES I AGREE!! i might be working on a helandra apple core drawing……

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just realised another thing that bothers me when it comes to trojan war adaptations. in most of them, helen goes with paris more or less willingly, in most cases because menelaus is such a bad guy and she was forced to marry him and she is so in love with paris blah blah. the problem with that is not only the mischaracterisation of menelaus, but also the simplification of helen’s character. not as a slut, but as this innocent young girl who just wants to get away from her bad husband. i suspect that this is mostly, because 1) she is a female character, and female characters are in general often reduced to their relationship to men and 2) making her e.g. more selfish and self-centered and not completely kind and innocent would make it harder for the audience to root for her AND for her and paris as a couple. this is not by any means helen hate, i love her so so much, also BECAUSE she is such a complex character, let her be selfish and not think about her actions’ consequences, and still later has breakdowns and “what have i done?” moments, who married menelaus willingly but also maybe loves paris in the beginning and grows tired of him, LET HER BE COMPLEX

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every lesbian has a silly guy to obsess over it's a whole thing

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who is sending all these forcefem agamemnon asks to classics artists i need to know so i can bestow eternal blessings to you and your loved ones

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ich denke, dass die einzigen gründe, warum ich einen zug früher nehme, sind, dass ich noch zeit hab in ruhe ein spaßgetränk zu trinken und durch den thalia zu gehen, ist peak gen z von mir und sehr sehr valide

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I redesigned my penelope (this design takes place during the trojan war(

Also unpopular opinion (which has nothing to do with this post) but I hate how jorge handled her character in epic

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teucer mourning ajax like

"i'll kick anyone's ass. i'll kick your ass. i'll kick your dog's ass. i'll kick my own ass."

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idk idk imagine before helen was brought to troy by paris, menelaus and helen were going through a rough patch in their relationship and if you take a version in which he wasn’t in sparta when paris took helen to troy and because he wanted to fix whatever helen and him were going through and already planned out a conversation in his mind and maybe even brought her a gift, maybe a necklace or a dress that he knew she really liked, and then when he came back to sparta, nervous because he was scared that they might fight again but also excited because he knew she would like the gift and then he learned that helen isn’t there because she went to troy with a younger very beautiful rich prince and then after the anger he had a lot of self-doubt, because he thought that helen might went away, because sparta wasn’t as rich as troy or because she stopped loving him or because he wasn’t beautiful enough. yeah.