queerboythings - Tumblr blog

queerboythings · 5 months ago

Note

https://www.tumblr.com/weepingnightmarenaruto/775649233787387904/the-way-kishimoto-handles-narutos-trauma-is-so

What are your thoughts on this?

Hello anon!

Ngl this is one of my favorite ask I've ever received because it allows me to discuss something I've been meaning to for quite some time now.

Before I get into the topic that interests me the most, I'll give my observations on this:

Honestly Narutos childhood before the start of the manga needed to be explored more and Kishimoto should’ve given a bigger focus to how Naruto is because of it.

It was explored. Since chapter 1 and throughout flashbacks over the next chapters of the series, Kishimoto efficiently established and explored Naruto's childhood which explained why Naruto behaves the way he does. Kishimoto does not need to grab the readers hand and explain exhaustively so people understand Naruto's character. This manga is not hard to get to need all that.

But the way Kishimoto constantly shows how okay Naruto is with being mistreated as long as he feels they acknowledged him, is so sad. And I wish Kishimoto awknowledged how unhealthy this is.

This is where it gets interesting. It is true that Naruto isn't allowed to get angry at Konoha and is quickly resolved in the manga (although that particular paragraph was in reference to Sasuke). However, this has more to do w/ the fact that Naruto is a shonen and the power of friendship and loyalty overcomes everything, even Kishimoto himself expressed frustration at how naive the resolution of problems in shonen manga is, maybe if the series was a seinen he would've written with more nuanced about Konoha as a political and military entity that also happens to be the home of the child soldiers.

This is also part of the reason why the Kage summit arc pisses me off so much. Naruto lets himself be beat up by Karui over Sasuke, has a panick attack, rejects Gaara, gets on his knees to beg the raikage to pardon Sasuke etc. Like he should be able to emphatize with the Kumo ninjas over what happened to Killer Bee and he should value his friendship with Gaara more. Honestly Sasuke joining the akatsuki and trying to capture Killer Bee should have been a deal breaker to Naruto. And to top that off Naruto witnessing Sasuke trying to Murder Sakura should at least be one. Naruto forgiving people who mistreats him makes sense, but people mistreating the people he cares for should not be. The way Naruto treats so many of his friends over his obsession with Sasuke is so disappointing.

And this is what I wanted to tackle the most. Naruto fans do not understand Kishimoto's writing AT ALL. Idk if the op of that post is Asian or not, but it's become clear to me that Naruto fans don't know and have shown zero interest in getting to know Kishimoto's writing influences. And no, I'm not talking about Dragon Ball.

Kishimoto has shared with fans his interest in Samurai and the Edo period Japan several times, to the point the first manga he wanted to write when he was a highschooler, before he even won an award at Shonen Jump, was about Samurai but scrapped the idea because at the time mangas like Rurouni Kenshin and Blade of the Immortal came out and he felt there was no longer space for him in the highly popular sub-genre and also that he's own writing wasn't as good compared to the aforementioned works.

But that does not mean that we don't see Kishimoto's nerdy side come out in Naruto about Samurai even if it's a manga about ninjas. There's the obvious, we see during the 4th war arc an actual battle between two samurai warriors, we also know Naruto is established in a fantasy universe of feudal Japan with damyos (feudal lords) and all. The themes of honor and loyalty, quests for revenge, the overall kinship is present as well.

But for those who have read Japanese literature works from the 17th century, you would have noticed that Kishimoto borrows A LOT from them when he's writing his manga, especially for Naruto and Sasuke.

It's funny because SS and NH shippers, as well as Naruto stans who hate Sasuke and Sasuke stans who hate Naruto and even fujoshis who are used to cookie-cutter stories where seme and uke do nothing but fuck after a couple of meetings in a corporate setting or high school or whatever boring shit they like to read, use the following examples to show how toxic and unhealthy Naruto and Sasuke's relationship is, not caring about Kishimoto's literary references as usual.

Kishimoto writes a love story the way they used to be written centuries ago. He draws a lot of inspiration from at least two writers from this period Ihara Saikaku and Chikamatsu Monzaemon.

The first example is Haku and Zabuza's relationship, I'll speak about them before moving to Naruto and Sasuke to give more context on how homosexual love stories were written around the time. Although Zabuza is not a samurai but rather a ninja on the run, the relationship is clearly inspired on the wakashudo practices where an older man would take a child from ages 11-16 as his protégé to train him, feed him, give him shelter and take him as his lover until the child came of age and became a warrior at the service of the lord of the land himself. Those young boys must be of great beauty, Saikaku is constantly writing about how their beauty is what grants them the better masters over the ugly boys.

This is what Zabuza and Haku do. Zabuza takes Haku as an apprentice and they swear loyalty to each other till the death, because that's the other thing, if the circumstance presented, both master and apprentice would fight alongside each other, kill for each other and if necessary die for each other.

Many Naruto fans feel uncomfortable about the real nature of Zabuza and Haku's relationship and delude themselves into believing their relationship is actually one of father and son, lol how stupid.

Because Naruto is a shonen, we never see sexual acts being performed so Kishimoto instead shows us the attraction these characters feel for one another through suggestive dialogue and flushed faces.

Even Haku's sacrifice and Zabuza's final words are totally inspired in the works of Saikaku, where both lovers hope to meet each other in another world. Foer exambple, in one of Saikaku's stories The Boy who Sacrificed his Life in the Robes of his lover, the boy, Senjuro, who had pledged to love Sazen in this world and the next and knowing his lover was at risk of being ambushed and killed, disguises himself as Sazen sacrificing his life for him getting slashed from the back, after learning about Senjuro's death Sazen kills himself as well.

Very dramatic right? This other post also discusses briefly Haku and Zabuza and Kishimoto drawing inspiration from literary works from the Edo period [LINK]

Let's move onto Naruto and Sasuke. Is their relationship toxic and unhealthy? By today's standards it sure is. But by the standards of the 17th century is one of the greatest stories of male love ever told, I'm certain if Saikaku could read Naruto he would commend Kishimoto on his work. But this is something Naruto fans don't know and quite frankly most don't care about.

In the post you linked, OP expresses the arc that pisses them off the most (and most Naruto fans hate as well) is the Kage Summit arc where Naruto states his fierce loyalty to Sasuke no matter what, and I must laugh because if there's any arc that resembles the male love stories of the Edo period the most, it's that one.

It bothers most fans Naruto wanted to commit double suicide so he and Sasuke escape the burdens of their world and be free of them in the next one. This is a common theme in literature of 17th century Japan. Two lovers making up for their Confucian failings in this world seeking redemption in a Buddhist paradise (at the time Buddhism had made its way into Japan and it was very different from China and India's Buddhism, you can read more about it here).

Kishimoto has referenced Chikamatsu in Naruto, so he is familiar with his plays where lovers commit double suicide as the ultimate showcase of love. I believe Kishimoto felt more comfortable and had more freedom to reference Chikamatsu and not Saikaku because the former wrote heterosexual romances whereas the latter focused more in homosexual romances and Kishimoto was already walking on a fine line by this point.

These other blogs have written great posts on how Kishimoto incorporated the double suicide trope for Naruto and Sasuke [LINK], [LINK], [LINK]. So I don't think I need to delve any deeper into it, they did a great job themselves.

But this is what OP doesn't understand. Kishimoto is writing an epic, a love story for the ancient times. Sasuke doing all that and all this is kind of like a test, Naruto's devotion is being put through highs and lows and they must overcome them. It'd be good fanservice to some if Naruto would give up on Sasuke but that'd be pretty boring and writers of the Edo period would be rolling over their graves if Kishimoto did that, HA!

Another element Kishimoto borrowed from Saikaku's literary works is the willingness to commit seppuku for your loved one. We see this with Madara and Hashirama.

In Saikaku's story Nightingale in the Snow two young boys, Naiki and Dannosuke, seek to become the lovers of the samurai Tonai. When Tonai demands proof of their love for him the boys show themselves willing to commit seppuku in front of him, Tonai shocked by their devotion accepts them as lovers.

The scene is similar to Hashirama also being willing to kill himself in front of Madara per his request, hoping Madara would accept him and trust him and his clan. Madara just like Tonai, is shocked by Hashirama's actions and stops him just in time, accepting him and joining his clan with Hashirama's, just like Tonai accepted the boys.

Which leads me to Kishimoto's *actual* finale for the Naruto series, the chapter he had planned and envisioned for 15 years, chapter 698. It's also been discussed by another blog how the theme of the battle Love vs. Power and the panels are a homage to Devilman's own final battle [LINK]. But what interests me in particular about chapter 698 in relation to Saikaku's work is how mutilation of your own body has also been a common trope in Japanese male love literature as proof your devotion.

Kinda like Naruto willing to lose his arm to Sasuke hoping to finally reach his heart (and did!). Sasuke would also go on to refuse a new arm, keeping himself mutilated as a reminder of Naruto's devotion for him.

Something that surprised me at first but then it made total sense to me is the brotherly troth found in Saikaku's works. Usually when a Samurai took a young apprentice, the samurai was old as shit (40-60 years old) and the young boy would be anything between 11-17 years. But there were times when a younger man would engage in a relationship with another man close in age, (although for us in modern times a lot of them would still be considerable age-gaps).

Saikaku for example, wrote the love story between Sazen, a 28 year old and Senjuro, a 17 year old, because of their not so big age-gap, these two lovers considered each other "brothers". They formalize their relationship by having sex, considering it the consummation of their brotherly troth.

When Sazen believes Senjuro had betrayed him for another man he's heartbroken Senjuro might had broken his vows of brotherly love.

So in Edo Japan homosexual relationships between two men close in age were considered similar to that of brothers, or at least brought the men so close they would consider one another brothers. Something very important to keep in mind is that none of these men are actually blood related.

In another of Saikaku's stories They Waited Three Years to Die, Kikui the younger man, considers his lover, Uhei to be his elder brother.

It seems that in this period of time there wasn't a clear divide in the type of love a man might profess another man with whom he is in love and has sex with, and the type of love two blood-related brothers felt for each other. Again, this is not condoning incest, it's more so how they saw male-male romantic relationships as deeply intimate they rivaled the bonds of blood-related people.

I had already made a post on what I believed Kishimoto meant with his whole "more brothers than blood-brothers" deal he has going on with Naruto and Sasuke [LINK]. But now I understand where it comes from. It really has nothing to do with actual incest (or pseudo-incest or spiritual-incest or whatever the fuck antis come up with) but him drawing inspiration from centuries old literary works on homosexual relationships. After all Naruto being set in what's clearly fantasy Edo feudal Japan, it makes sense Naruto the character would have a similar view on his feelings for Sasuke.

Finally, another thing I found very interesting is how in Saikaku's works he always makes sure to let the readers know how beautiful a man (usually the bottom of the relationship) is by comparing his looks to those of a girl. For example, in his story Implicated by his Diamond Crest, Saikaku writes Tannosuke is so beautiful people thought he was a girl when he was seven years old.

So funny how Kishimoto does the same with Haku and Sasuke, such pretty beautiful boys people think they're girls.

Kishimoto is so insane, this old man really thought he could get away with all this, uh? or maybe he was hoping people would notice.

So going back to OP's post linked, what they and most Naruto fans complain about is that Kishimoto writes seeking to emulate the writing of 17th century authors rather than a 21st century one. So a lot of things that for us are toxic and unhealthy, were symbols of passion and loyalty back then and that's how Kishimoto sees them and seeks to express them in his own work. This is why it's so important to keep in mind author's intentionality when engaging with some art or media work. What is Kishimoto trying to say with his manga? what are his references, influences and inspiration? which works parallel his own? There's a reason why every creative is always telling us the media they consume and their favorite art, because we are seeing pieces of them reimagined in their own new work.

I'm really proud that I managed to make this post only considering Japanese works and not adding Western ones for direct parallels between Naruto and other pieces of literature. But this sentiment of wanting to fight alongside your loved one, killing for them and dying by their side is pretty much universal in homosexual literature, especially from the ancient times. You can also find this celebration of homosexual love in Ancient Greek and Roman literature too, Achilles and Patroclus being the most famous example.

The lyrics of Taylor Swift's song You Are In Love, fit pretty well this same sentiment those men centuries ago were trying to describe as well.

Like yeah, imagine you've been sent off war, women stayed in the city and you're left with nothing but the company of the men you're gonna fight alongside and quite possibly die alongside too. Of course you'd love them, in every way a person could possibly love another one, because those men are your brothers.

The screenshots I used for this post are from Ihara Saikaku's book The Great Mirror of Male Love.

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