rislyann

[rislyann]

@soymilkbun Oh, you're right! And it's not how they used to sit, either:

Luckily, there's another shot of that table setting, and it looks like Marbella has space to move her arms, at least.

Given that it's them, this may be as close as they could get to sitting in each other's laps in public 😂

(What I'm really upset about is that Javier couldn't join the family dinner due to the differences in social status 🥲)

[rislyann]

this! thank you!

i always thought it was a bit odd only Neumann had mentees and Bayern didn't, since both are older and technically have the age for it

which, i kind of understand now. Lloyd did mention Bayern isn't exactly the most skilled with the sword but still...

anyways (love the charming details about Lloyd's punishment for them. charming indeed. i would be flattered if someone did that for me) thank you so much! for some reason in my memories Ulrich and Conte were the same person, like, name-last name LOL

guys help me with some info (i have been having foggy brain since I started with the flu medicines and can't focus enough to look up in the novel ;;)

what was the name of the other knight of Frontera? the one that doesn't exist in the webcomic

i remember them being 4 -Neumann, Bayern, something-something and Javier, but for the life of me i can't remember the name of the something-something guy

[rislyann]

guys help me with some info (i have been having foggy brain since I started with the flu medicines and can't focus enough to look up in the novel ;;)

what was the name of the other knight of Frontera? the one that doesn't exist in the webcomic

i remember them being 4 -Neumann, Bayern, something-something and Javier, but for the life of me i can't remember the name of the something-something guy

[rislyann]

leleloyd

[rislyann]

Original

[rislyann]

Taransay, Scotland

@pauljwillson

[rislyann]

Lloyd body isn’t right in this but nothing else looked better so 🥲 (also I love the idea of Javier always looking at him)

[rislyann]

there are two ways to become a knight (i investigated this to write my fic);

one is to get the right in battle, and be knighted by another knight, a Lord or the King/Queen.

the other one is to be a squire from a young age under the wing of a knight and, once you learn everything you may need there's a special ceremony to knight the former squire

my headcanon (canon in my fics) is that Sir Bayern was the one who taught Javier everything to be a knight, until he was ready and old enough to swear loyalty to Arcos and become a knight of Frontera

also, becoming a knight was an honorable choice for nobles' sons who weren't going to become heirs;

Javier's decision to be a knight would have been seen as a natural thing even if he was officially adopted into the Frontera family (that maybe he was adopted and just kept his last name to honor the Asrahan family and as Arcos' attempt to make sure the last name didn't die with Javier, but that's a discussion for another day)

We as a fandom doesn't talk enough about the relationship between Sir Bayern and Javier. Yeah it's thanks to the baron for taking Javier in and all but Arcos have his own family to take care of, so who's gonna take care of this kid who also happens to want to be a knight? Neumann? Yeah no.

In the webtoon Bayern was also there when the baron found Javier. In webtoon chapter 159 Javier should be around 23 years old, and Bayern's children, who just returned from higher education from the capital, should be a little younger than Javier. Just imagine these two bonding. Bayern being there for Javier's first sword swing, taking him to get his official knight uniform tailored, giving him a haircut, and being an overall mentor to Javier. Don't even get me started in TKOBAI where Bayern is loyal until the end and never got mentioned again. We know the baron and baroness died → javier offed the loan shark + goes on the run → og lloyd died → javier buried him and leave. Where does Bayern fit in this? I need to know. Did Bayern attend the funeral to say goodbye and leave before the loan sharks arrived? Or did he want to stay and Javier convinced him he'll stick with Lloyd to repay the baron but Bayern still have his children's futures to think of so he should go and find his fortune elsewhere? How would a dutiful man like him react when news reach him that the young master of the family he served died because no one was available to stop him and the boy his lord picked up went on a murder spree and is now running from the law while he packed up and moved away in a manner completely undeserving of his senior knight title?

As you can see I have a lot of opinion about this

[rislyann]

I always thought something was off about OG Lloyd in general and thanks to this post, I finally figured out why I was so on the fence about him as a character.

This user pointed out the Frontera's relationship with Javier is odd in TGED because in the original novel, they were nothing more than extras and I agree. That's why I think in the original novel, OG Lloyd wasn't as terrible as he is described in the TGED webnovel because he is utterly irrelevant to the TKOBAI plot.

All OG Lloyd ever did was drink, being a menace to the Frontera barony, and broke Javier's sword, but the kind of adventure Javier goes on doesn't really allow for these details to become relevant throughout the novel. At best, Javier met someone who was bullied in the TKOBAI novel and he used "Lloyd breaking my sword" to talk no jutsu his adversary and save the day. Even Suho said Lloyd exits the story after Javier buries him and starts his journey. Heck, you could erase everything about his character except for the drinking part and nothing from TKOBAI would change—Lloyd's behavior wasn't the cause for the barony's fall, Arcos falling for a scam was what did them all in. So there's no point for the TKOBAI author to really elaborate on Lloyd's character beyond 'he drinks and is a menace'.

But with the arrival of Suho, the relationship between Javier and each member of the Frontera family was forcefully expanded and OG Lloyd's abuse was elaborated into the despicable character he was. Much like how Javier's relationship with the Frontera needs to be expanded beyond 'the baron saved me as a kid so my loyalty is with the frontera', OG Lloyd's role possibly expanded into scarring Julian, abusive to the townsfolk which makes everyone scatter like rabbit and get in Suho's way (there's no reason for him as a character to not be abusive to his servant ofc), and betraying Arcos' trust by lying and using his tuition money to party.

My theory is that as TKOBAI becomes TGED with the moment Suho woke up in Lorasia, OG Lloyd's role was expanded in order to accommodate Suho doing a 180 and changing everyone's negative perception of Lloyd Frontera from a despicable piece of shit to a reliable heir everyone was waiting for, which more than fits the 'hero origin' Suho needs if he replaced Javier as the main character of the world.

No matter how you look at it, OG Lloyd is a starter villian—he's the source of torment for the original protagonist, he broke Javier's precious things, and is his savior's own son, a position Javier could never become no matter how much he tried. OG Lloyd's hooligan reputation is the first roadblock Suho faced when he got to this new world, but for that starter villian to die from his own doing without Javier's involvements is just shitty writing. That's why I think OG Lloyd wasn't meant to be anything more than "drunk menace who died" in the TKOBAI novel.

I felt something was odd at first when I saw the fandom was split on OG Lloyd's webtoon appearance. In the novel, he was unapologetic and hated Javier, while in the webtoon he's way more sympathetic and wanted to be Javier's friend and tsundere'd his way into destroying his childhood. I liked the webtoon version more than the novel version (not to say I don't like the novel version—I like both) but didn't know why until now.

From a writing perspective, having a 10 years old child being a piece of shit just for the sake of it is just terrible for a work published to a large teenage fanbase, and there are already plausible reasons for OG Lloyd to despise Javier as much as he did without the reason being "oh some people are trash". If there's a setup already in place why not use it instead of bending over backwards for a new plot point? (looking at you Alicia and your tournament which Lady Ella might or might not attend)

So point is—I think TKOBAI Lloyd wasn't as terrible a human being as TGED OG Lloyd, but honestly both versions of them are the kind of people I'd stay the hell away from so there's that. I have lots of problems with the webtoon's decisions to change the novel as much as it did, but OG Lloyd being more sympathetic isn't one of them.

[rislyann]

Wouldn't it be funny if the entire Frontera family just... agreed to pretend that Kim Suho is a complete stranger they hired to help with the estate management after the heir's untimely demise? No, Your Majesty, Lloyd Frontera is long gone, what are you talking about. This is just some guy, they don't even look anything alike. Sir Asrahan himself confirms it, as does the literal angel living in the estate—you know angels cannot lie!

What would Alicia do then.

[rislyann]

i have an exam tomorrow but i desperately had to get javier out of my system

[rislyann]

binge read lol got a little bit attached to them

[rislyann]

Javier, eyes glimmering: Should I kill them? *_*

Lloyd: WTF NO

Javier: Oh. *discouraged*

(It's about that chapter where they hunted Bibeong, btw.)

"Does that mean…" Javier's eyes glimmered for a second as he paused. "That I should kill him?" "No. No, no! Never!" Lloyd hurriedly objected as he shook his hand hard. "You can't kill him. Come on, man. Think about it. [...]" "Then…" Javier murmured, discouraged.

[rislyann]

Comb.

[rislyann]

javier admiring suho....

[rislyann]

I’d rather die than grow old without the best of you

[rislyann]

Lloyd's memory is just. Insane.

Thinking of bridges in chapter 83, he casually goes: Ah, yes, Karl Theodor Bridge in Heidelberg. Built in mid-11th century, destroyed in 1228 by a flood, rebuilt, destroyed again in 1308, and in 1340, 1400, 1470, 1565 by ice, during the Nine Years' War by Louis XIII's army, ice again in 1784...

Like. How. How were you able to remember all that, "Lloyd Frontera"? Try that lie again when you aren't reciting an imaginary textbook like it's a prayer you know by heart!

...Is this how Javier feels every night while he's being gently put to sleep 🥺