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From Sprite's Vault - Annie AU

This was supposed to be a christmas countdown playlist fill, but the idea had I think been around longer, because I remember plot notes that I cannot find. Bruce isn't Batman in it, and it's set in the same 1930s era, and is mostly the same as the 1998 movie (I think it's 1998), except that "Annie" would have actually been taken away by "the Mudges" and there'd be a fun rescue later, because what's a batfam fic without a little hostage situation?

THE CAST

Dick as Annie

Bruce Wayne as Oliver Warbucks

Jason, Damian, Steph, Cass, Tim, and Duke as the Orphans

Joker and Harley as Rooster and Lily

Ivy as Hannigan 

Diana as Grace

Alfred as Staff

Haly as Sandy

Commissioner Gordon as FDR

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From Sprite's Vault - Newsies AU

my favorite fandom and musical were bound to collide eventually.

i have a lot of notes on this one, so for the sake of space let's do a readmore shall we?

Cast List

Jason as Jack

Artemis as Katherine

Damian as Les

Dick as Davey

Tim as Crutchie

Steph as Spot

NEWSIES

Duke as Specs

Cass as Race

Roy as Romeo

Harper as Elmer

Cullen as Mush

Wally as Finch

Babs as Albert

Selina as Medda

Harley and Ivy as the Bowery Beauties

Roman Sionis as Pulitzer

Circe as the secretary 

Bruce Wayne as Gov. Roosevelt 

Alfred as Jacobi

Hamilton Hill as the Mayor

Joker as Snyder

Kon is Hearst’s son

Riddler and Two-Face as the Delancy Brothers

Penguin as Wiesel

Production Notes

USE NEWSIE-SPEAK

Keep fave lines of dialogue/lyrics but do your own too (i had no intention of writing it "as" a musical, merely drawing some dialogue from lyrics)

Set in 1890s just like musical but in Gotham, paper names can stay, use G districts Luthor as Hearst

Maybe add some scenes like Jason talking to Steph between WWK and STD and other ‘missing’ scenes

Use fight choreography

Dick and Damian can cartwheel around sometimes for funsies

Sionis goes to jail and Bruce is the one with the job offer and Jasons like yeah and i know some guys

Synopsis

PROLOGUE

Tim and Jason 

CARRYIN’ THE BANNER

Jason, Tim, Newsies, Nuns, Cameo of Artemis and Kon

Intro to the Grayson brothers 

BOTTOM LINE

Sionis, Circe, “Nunzio”, “Big Guy”, “Book Guy”

Scene between Jason, Dick, Damian, Joker approaches, they run to the theatre. (Either Jason or Dick literally scoops up Damian to run with him)

THAT’S RICH

Selina

(as she’s performing, jason explains a bit about how they know each other. Also helps behind the scenes) (lyrics exactly)

DON’T COME A’KNOCKING/NEVER PLANNED ON YOU

Harley and Ivy, Jason, Artemis

(Harley and Ivy are performing, so periodic exact lyrics. Jack’s lyrics are going to be the vibe of Jason’s internal monologue)

Newsies in the yard, price of papes goes up, Penguin TF, R taunt

“Hey, Jay, you still thinkin’?”

“Sure he is, can’t you smell smoke?”

WORLD WILL KNOW

Jason, Damian, Dick, Tim, Newsies

“‘Stead o’ hawkin’ headlines, we’ll be makin’ ‘em today.”

call/response keep 

“Now they’re gonna see what ‘stop the presses’ really means.”

“I lost my shoe.”

“Sionis may own the world, but he don’t own us.”

“You can tell Sionis that a few days into this strike, he’s gonna be begging for an appointment to see me. YOU GOT THAT?”

Restaurant 

Jason, Tim, Dick, Damian, Newsies +Alfred +Artemis

(pretty sure there are 8 boroughs East End where Jason and the cast live, Gotham Heights, Burnley, New Town, Miller Harbor/The Docks, Coventry, The Narrows, where Steph reigns Burnside)

Convo between Jason and Artemis

WATCH WHAT HAPPENS

Artemis (internal monologue, written work, and talking to herself) (keep the actual words from the article)

Scene at the gates, Dick, Damian, Jason, Babs, …

SEIZE THE DAY

Jason, Damian, Dick, Tim, Newsies + Penguin, TF, R, Extras

"You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you."

“And the strike starts right damn now.”

USE JACK'S SPEECH VERBATIM

Oh shit Delanceys go for Dami/Les first

+Artemis kinda

Bruisers and cops show up, much fighting, Tim is arrested, realistically Artemis throws punches before someone shoos her away. Jason is going to do a lot of looking after Damian.

SANTA FE

Jason (internal monologue and talking to himself)

✨️trauma✨️

Restaurant mope and celebration

KING OF NEW YORK

Damian, Dick, Tim, Duke, Cass, Babs, Harper, Cullen, Wally, Roy

+Alfred +Artemis

Gotta be like a dance thing and/or wrestling match

LETTER FROM THE REFUGE

Tim (writing the letter so content and internal monologue maybe flashbacks but nothing aloud)

Jason painting at the theater, Selina’s advice, Dick, then Damian and Artemis, invade

Medda’s speech verbatim

KEEP RUNNING AWAY CONVO

'Jason stared at the paint can, wondering if downing it would kill him fast enough to escape this conversation'

“Yes, he did. And then he died.”

“Can we table the palaver and get back to business?”

WATCH WHAT HAPPENS REPRISE

Jason, Dick, Damian, Artemis

POOR GUYS HEAD IS SPINNING

“Thank you, God!”

“We’ve got faith, we’ve got the plan, and we’ve got Jay!”

“And I’ve got a date!”

BOTTOM LINE REPRISE

Sionis, Artemis, Hamilton Hill, Joker, Book Guy, Big Guy, Circe, Jason,  Delanceys

Artie more angry than sad/afraid 

Amp trauma/angst/fear

Artie was probably abused, will flinch at the loud bangs

Jason gets roughed up some

*slam* “WHAT GOOD WOULD QUIET DO ME?”

Use lots of Pulitzer’s lines

“Does anyone else feel a noose tightening?”

“Your abject surrender was always the bottom line.”

“Be glad you’re alive boy…”

“Lucky for them, all but one got away/they may not be so lucky tonight.”

BROOKLYNS HERE

Steph and gang

Meeting

Dick, Selina, Dami, NEWSIES

Six boroughs actually show up for the union meeting

Davey’s speech verbatim

“You wanna be talked to like an adult, start acting like one. Don’t just run your mouth, make some sense.”

Jason visibly struggling to get the words out.

Scene on the rooftop with Artemis.

She clocks him in the jaw… then kisses him

Also we need to address the threat against the other Newsies with regard to the Refuge, bc Artemis heard that

SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN 

Artemis and Jason

Printing Press scene

“Remind me to stay on your good side.”

ONCE AND FOR ALL

Jason, Dick, Damian, Artemis, Kon, Steph, Newsies

“We ain’t come this far to lose.”

Keep article. 

“They think they’re running this town, but this town would shut down without us.”

Office Scene

Sionis, Circe, Book Guy, Jason, Big Guy, Dick, Steph, Hill, Bruce, Selina, Artemis

“We’re your loyal employees, we would never take our business elsewhere.”

Davey and Jack.

“Have a look out there, Mr. Sionis. In case you ain’t figured it  out, we got you surrounded.”

Bruce’s vibe will be different from Teddy’s.

“I’m young, I ain’t stupid.”

IT’S A COMPROMISE WE CAN ALL LIVE WITH.

Appropriately edited finale. Maybe Artie inherits the paper? Improves for all workers

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long overdue announcements

well, folks, as you may have recently noticed, i am not in fact dead, despite being absent from here and ao3 for like.... 2 years? oops. long story short, i took a break to deal with a crisis way back in like january '23, then got invested in non-sprite writings, and in general lost most of my steam/energy/motivation for the account for a long while. if you're worried this message is a formal goodbye, don't, it's not. yet.

i currently have about a dozen posted WIPS up on ao3, not counting a few others which i went in this week and quietly edited to show them complete as-is, just because i really do not have more thoughts on them and they also hadn't received much traffic, so i didn't think i'd be disappointing many people. i do plan to finish everything on my account that's a WIP, though it's going to take A WHILE, because most of them are many, many chapters which I have barely begun to continue. i'll be working on them as inspiration/motivation comes and updating as soon as something's finished, so you can expect a gradual trickle over the coming months and years before i'll hang up my sprite wings "for good."

as some may have noticed, however, based on the ask game like, two posts beneath this, where I listed all my wip folders/docs, i have MANY more things in some state of existence than are posted on ao3. i'm still sorting through all of these and determining what i want to do with it all, because these range from one-line premises to thousands of words of a story. i definitely think some of these concepts that i've done a lot of work on i'll either finish at some point and post, or get a friend to help me finish (drop an ask if you might be interested), or post as-is with a short summary of what the ending was supposed to be or could be, with an open invite for others to continue it if inspired.

as for other things i have noted down which I haven't much worked on, i will be dropping those steadily on tumblr under the tag "sprite's vault" and these will be completely free to use, borrow, enjoy as thoughts, or anything. if you do create something, i'd love a tag so i can see that someone else enjoyed the concept too.

thanks to everyone who's supported my stories with comments, kudos, memes, asks, and everything else, and everyone who's still here for the finite stories to come. love you all

Sprite

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I really really want to know about how you're gonna fic Gotham War plsssss

And also BANE SEQUEL!!!!

so i did the very little work i did on GW like 2 years ago and had to go back to my notes but some of what i had

"our" bruce never had a zur eh ar to begin with but when he was universe hopping a different bruce put it in his head (bc i think the whole concept is so idiotic), and until bruce gets home there's no contention bc going home is The MissionTM, but when bruce is home and comatose ZEA takes over

selina and jason and tim all have a way better plan along similar principles, where instead of whatever the hell mess they were doing, they're working on programs for ex-cons to get legal jobs and self-defense programs for people to fight back if gangs try to nab them for shit. bruce, or more accurately ZEA, still blows up about this

jason confronts "bruce" about this, calling him a hypocrite bc he spared the joker for even the slightest chance of redemption but now he wants regular mooks who aren't that bad to do life??? also by the logic "bruce" is pushing, he should be locking jason up too. ZEA basically says "hm u rite" and jason is Shook

the fam is worried and trying to keep bruce away from the people they're helping, and eventually there's the big fight with all 4 boys v bruce but it goes slightly different, and also damian isn't blindnly being ZEA's perfect robin this time around

the thing happens with jason being a distraction while selina does other shit and ZEA kidnaps and drugs jason. unclear how he escapes because i didn't want to mess with too many of the random ass characters i don't know

then there's the whole mess where didck goes to the safehouse and finds out what happened to jason, and my notes are confusing but basically its tim dick and damian as a team vs ZEA, and while ZEA cuffs damian to the parking meter (instead of tim) and throws the net on dick and tim, Bruce breaks through enough to throw the batarang to let them out before the police arrive

and then my notes leave off at the point where jason tries to save the little girl from the fire, and that might be as far as i read

idk if you weere expecting more or less of that lmao but there you go. as for bane sequel, as its being cowritten, i shan't say *zips lips*

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It's the 5 ask game!

Top 5 shows

Top 5 movies

Top 5 characters

Top 5 candies

Top 5 books

Now pass it on to 5 other people!

we all know i suck at choosing favorites so these will be the 5 im most recently into or that come to mind highly

shows: agent carter, once upon a time, star wars the clone wars... yeah sorry i don't watch many

movies: inside out 2, the lord of the rings (that still only counts as one!), parent trap (the remake), encanto, ella enchanted

characters: jason todd, elizabeth bennet, kaz brekker, annabeth chase, leo valdez

candies: kit kats, these "reeses cups" that aren't peanuts that i can eat, lifesaver gummies, mnms, chocolate bars

books: pride and prejudice, six of crows, and the other 3 rn are fairly unrecognizable lmao

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Howdy doo

Tell me about a funny time you had while writing a fic.

i barely remember most of my writing processes fr but let's see

i mean there was the time our basement flooded over LITERAL CHRISTMAS EVE bc a pipe froze and broke while i was writing "A Christmas Carol."

OH ALSO

theres this really short not that good fic called "in the burning heat" or smt. and that was AN ASSIGNMENT FOR CLASS which was technically my trip to the omaha zoo, and i was damian and my mom was talia, and then i changed all the names and details from the assignement to the batfam, but i had like the fictional names in there, and SK wasn't in the class but she came in support when i had to read it aloud, and we were both there just actually dying as I read my dad's name (Batin, guess who he is in the fic)

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Pointed timing is pointed, lmao. Very well, let's make this a personal challenge to ORGANIZE THESE while I list them.

(taking the coward's way out and starting with the ones currently posted on ao3)

the things I do for you...

repletion

THE FOURTH ANNUAL HUNGER GAMES

The Batchelor

no good deed...

Wayne4Ham

a comet pulled from orbit

The Young, the Innocent, and Righteous

Batman Beginners

Father's Day

The Light Isn't Fadin'

Aaaaaand now for the terrifying and nebulous doc horde

3 jokers brainstorm

4+1 dick kidnapping

bane sequel

bc i am pissed about agent carter and have a cracky idea about tim and howard getting swapped

easter egg competition

ideas, snippets, concepts, and AUs

jason is a dad like actually

let's fix Gotham War

Newsies AU

songfics

xmas countdown playlist

Robins' Inferno

sins of the father

war crimes

best big sister Babs

steph's baby

did i actually organize while i was listing, no, no i did not. will i do so now... partially

open tag

WiPs Game

Thank you for the tag, @insidethekaleidoscope!

Rules:

Make a new post with the names of all the files in your WIP folder, regardless of how non-descriptive or ridiculous. Let people send you an ask with the title that most intrigues them, and then post a little snippet or tell them something about it! Then tag as many people as you have WIPS.

Lockwood & Co fics:

Post Fittes House

Lucy and the reverse baby fever

Original works

When Fortune Smiles

Alyce Shovelbottom

House with 10 children

Stories with Emeren

zero pressure tags! @lemonsharks, @waitingforthesunrise, @informedimagining, @ironyscleverer, @youareiron-andyouarestrong

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Yeah, ngl that would be disturbing. Hmmmmm let's see...

I first fell into/found fanfiction through "what would your life be in *fandom*" quizzes on Quotev

open tag

tag game!

tag your moots and tell them something random about yourself

I'll start

when i was in fourth grade i adopted my friends and now i have like 6 children (idek how many there were a lot)

@modern-inheritance @emmidemi @deadskincellsonyourpillow @pogues4lifeee @weirdponytail @danhengswifefrfr11 @midnight-blues07 @conditioningint3stin3s @purple-dinosaur17 + open tags (anyone who wants to join!)

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*That* scene in Six Hundred Strike is not about vengeance, it's about vulnerability ... because the Vengeance saga isn't about vengeance

To think all of this started because I was trying to determine why it feels so natural to read intimacy into the torture scene in Six Hundred Strike ... See, I'm personally not someone who reads an angle like this into things easily, but this time I found myself doing it too. And I just needed to know why.

It just made no sense for a while, because if you look at it superficially, it shouldn't make sense; it's a freaking torture scene. But I don't know, somehow, I must have felt that there was something there ... and I think I figured it out.

See, the reason why it feels so natural to read intimacy into this scene is because ... it actually is incredibly intimate. Not in an actually sexual way, but more so in a, "Imagine you were suddenly able to read someone's mind, and they yours" kind of intimacy.

It's really easy to just assume Six Hundred Strike is literally about vengeance, but it isn't. Now, please stick with me for a bit because we are going on a bit of a tangent here, but I promise we'll get back to this eventually.

The tangent I want to explore first is (as you've probably seen in the title) that the whole Vengeance saga is, ironically, about the unnecessity of vengeance and how destructive grudges and resentment can be. Think about it:

In Not Sorry For Loving You, Odysseus lets Calypso rant and then walks away without confronting her or accusing her, even telling her what she wants to hear one last time. I already discussed why Odysseus is an incredibly non-judgmental, non-resentful person in my Monster essay, and here is another excellent example of that.

Charybdis (I'm skipping Dangerous because he doesn't encounter any enemies there) is the first "monster" enemy he leaves alive since Polyphemus (Scylla doesn't count because he still "kills" for the sake of getting past her, even if it's in the form of sacrificing his men.) While one might argue that he had no choice since Charybdis is virtually impossible to kill, I think placing this encounter here might be an intentional choice especially since it differs greatly from the way that Charybdis is in the Odyssey. There has to be reason behind this change.

In Get In The Water (my beloved 🫶) we are explicitly shown that Odysseus offers Poseidon (the god who killed his whole fleet and is responsible for most of his suffering) forgiveness. The reason Odysseus has to torture him in the first place is Poseidon's own refusal of this mercy—he's literally torturing Poseidon in order to make him finally release the grudge because he has proven that this is the only way to actually get through to him. It actually shows perfectly that Poseidon's own inability to release his resentment became his downfall in the end, disproving his own "ruthlessness is mercy upon ourselves" motto as his own ruthlessness bit him in the a** this time, as I talked about in this post.

... And there is no resentment or vengeance in Six Hundred Strike either.

On one hand, it's easy to assume phrases like "For every comrade, every one of my friends, almost all of whom were slaughtered by your hand" or "How does it feel to be helpless? How does it feel to know pain?" indicate resentment, but ... not really.

We already know that Odysseus doesn't want vengeance, or he wouldn't have tried to lead from the heart one song earlier.

And then make yourself aware of something else: Not once during any of their encounters is Odysseus actually accusing or resenting Poseidon for anything.

"Almost all of whom were slaughtered by your hand" is an objective fact. It's just true. Someone vengeful may have said "I'll make you pay for all of those you slaughtered" or "All of their deaths are your fault" ... Odysseus just says, "for every comrade". He doesn't specify what he's doing for his comrades ... and it sure as hell isn't that he's (trying to) cause Poseidon pain or harm for them (which would be vengeance.)

For every comrade, he is fighting Poseidon, in order to finally reach his goal. For every comrade, he's doing everything that he has to do in order to get home, and in order to end this feud.

And then we get to the torture scene and it's ... actually so incredibly freaking intimate. Because it's not actually about vengeance, it's not about accusing Poseidon, or making him pay, or suffer more than necessary. If Odysseus were speaking from a genuine vengeance angle, he'd probably sound more like, "You killed my friends, now you pay for it. You did this to me and now it is your time to suffer." But he doesn't.

The torture scene in Six Hundred Strike is actually ... just another, much more extreme, repeat of Odysseus' lines from Get In The Water (my beloved 🫶): "Aren't you tired, Poseidon? It's been ten years, how long will this go? We're both hurting from losses, so why not leave this here and just go home?"

Odysseus tried saying it nicely ... now he's stabbing him with his own trident, hoping, practically begging, that he finally listens and accepts. Just lets them both go home.

And the thing is, this time, he isn't just saying "we're both hurting from losses" ... All you have to do is repeat to yourself Odysseus' entire monologue that he unleashes while he's stabbing him in a calmer, gentler tone and you'll see that what he is actually yelling out at Poseidon are all of the reasons why he is hurting. Sharing with him all of the pain that he probably hasn't shared with anyone ... ever.

"How does it feel to be helpless? How does it feel to know pain?" -> How does it feel to be vulnerable? I've felt vulnerable for so long without anyone to talk to or because no one truly understood me or what I'm going through.

"I watched my friends die in horror, crying as they were all slain. I heard their final moments, calling their captain in vain." -> This is why I am hurting. These are my losses.

"Look what you turned me into. Look what we've become." -> Look what I could be if I actually followed your lessons. Is this what you really want? Why can't you understand the harm that this is causing both of us?

"All of the pain that I've been through ... haven't I suffered enough?" -> Aren't you tired, Poseidon? It's been ten years, how long will this go? We're both hurting from losses, so why not leave this here and just go home?"

"You didn't stop when I begged you." -> I asked you to "Stop this, please" mere minutes ago. You didn't stop. That's why I'm doing this.

"(You) told me to close my heart. You said the world is dark. Didn't you say that ruthlessness is mercy?" -> I'm doing what you said you wanted me to do. Do you really want this? Do you really believe this? Can something like this really be mercy?

The first time I heard this, I firmly believed that Odysseus was actually crying during this part, and honestly, I believe that to this day. The canon visuals don't show us his face and I want to almost say that's intentional.

This whole scene is about vulnerability. Forced vulnerability, in a lot of ways, but raw, real vulnerability nonetheless.

This isn't just a torture scene; it's actually one of the most intimate scenes we've ever seen Odysseus share with anyone on screen. Seldom do we see him this honest in front of others (the vulnerable scene with Circe at the end of There Are Other Ways is the only other example I can think of.) Otherwise, all of his honest, raw songs are his solo songs (Monster, Just A Man, ...)

But here, Odysseus is essentially using the symbol of Poseidon's invulnerability—his trident—to force him into the most vulnerable position that he's probably been in centuries, if not ever ... and at the same time, he is being incredibly vulnerable himself. He's opening up to Poseidon in a kind of absolute way that we have actually never seen him open up to anyone.

... If that is not intimacy in its rawest, most painful, uncomfortable, and yet cathartic forms, I don't know what is.

As if that weren't sad enough... The saddest part about all of this is actually Poseidon's "Monster!" ... Because it tells us without a doubt that he is actually incapable of receiving or understanding those words from Get In The Water (my beloved 🫶). He is incapable of understanding vulnerability. All he can see is the "monstrous" act that accompanies it because that is something he knows and recognizes.

Although I believe, in the end, Odysseus did get through to him, and did get him to drop the grudge, I believe it happened on a kind of subconscious level rather than genuine acknowledgment or agreement. It's further proof of how Odysseus is capable of growth while Poseidon isn't (yet.)

Poseidon remains stuck in his ways, in his "ruthlessness" philosophy, because he isn't ready to acknowledge its flawed nature, essentially making it his own cage that prevents him from growing or moving forward. Meanwhile, Odysseus is walking away, walking ahead.

... Part of me almost wants to claim that he started begging Odysseus to stop so quickly not because of the physical pain, but because of his words. Because the vulnerability forced on him was hurting in a way that physical injuries, even from his own trident, never could. Because deep down, very deep down, he must've ... "felt" what Odysseus wanted him to understand and feel anyway.

Remember how I compared this type of intimacy to the sudden ability to read someone's mind before? I chose this analogy for a reason. What is intimacy if not using the very source of a god's invulnerability, essentially putting yourself into his divine shoes, doing what you know he would do to you ... in order to force him to connect to your mortal feelings and pains, even if he can still not truly understand them?

Here is where we see, for the first time, maybe ever, what even Odysseus and Athena couldn't do (yet), and the core reason why their partnership broke apart: a mortal and a divine genuinely understood each other's perspectives ... saw themselves in the other, even if only for a moment.

Given all that ... there is absolutely nothing I can say against kicking my feet and giggling excitedly over this scene.

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NO BECAUSE EPIC TELEMACHUS DOES FIND HIS FATHER WHILE FIGHTING THOSE MONSTERS

Interesting that his father too has become a monster but more on that at nine

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Let's talk about "Monster" ... and one of Odysseus' criminally underrated traits: his lack of judgment.

I was re-listening to "Monster" the other day and it kind of just hit me... Overall, that song isn't my favorite (it's somewhere in B tier; the lyricism is great, and the part after "So if we must sail through dangerous oceans..." absolutely slaps, it's just not one that I go back to frequently.) But there are some things I genuinely adore about it because I adore the way it progresses Odysseus' character arc as clearly not a "corruption" and how this is conveyed through the way the song is set up and presented.

First of all, I simply have to yap about how Odysseus isn't justifying his foes' actions the way that I have seen some people falsely assume. He's describing what they did or do and essentially saying, "They aren't letting themselves be stopped by guilt from doing what they think they have to do, so why should I?"

Polyphemus doesn't overthink whether it's right or wrong to kill some people because they harmed him or his sheep.

Circe may deep down feel guilt but isn't letting that stop her from turning men into pigs to prevent any more harm from befalling her nymphs at their hands.

Poseidon isn't losing sleep over drowning a fleet because that is what gods do to retain their infamy and status.

Odysseus and the rest of his soldiers didn't use the Trojan horse tactic out of malice or bloodlust, but out of pragmatism. It was the most efficient way to win a war that would have only cost more lives on both sides if they hadn't ended it then and there.

You look at that and you may think, "That's all very fair, but that doesn't mean any of those actions are justified" ... and you'd be right. None of the actions above are actually right or justified.

But the thing about "Monster" that I love so much is that it's specifically NOT something like, "These people I've encountered are all evil and ruthless and they are right and justified in being that way; I'll be the same." It's actually, "These people I've encountered act with ruthlessness; it clearly aids them in achieving their goal, and they seem to have figured out how to not feel guilt over their actions. I want to reap those benefits too. So far, I've been acting with mercy, which seems to have disadvantaged me. If they can do it, I can and should do the same to level the playing field."

Odysseus isn't saying that their actions are right, wrong, or justified. He's simply exploring why these people act the way they do. And he does so entirely without judgment.

I'm not surprised about him not judging Circe; while she was still wrong since she went overboard and struck preemptively against people who were not guaranteed to ever cause harm, she was pretty much redeemed in the end and her point is the easiest out of these to understand.

But the rest? Polyphemus killed his best friend. Poseidon drowned his whole fleet. The Trojan horse? It never comes up anywhere else but since he mentions it here, I think it's safe to assume that Odysseus feels guilty for using a tactic such as this. And still... Odysseus talks about his foes' actions with understanding and an open mind. He acknowledges their points of view—all of them, even if none besides Circe ever acknowledged or understood his.

The only time we genuinely see Odysseus act out of resentment is when he tells Polyphemus his name... After that, he never shows anything of the sort ever again. If he ever held any resentment toward any of his foes, I feel like this is where he lets it go for good.

Hell, even Poseidon, whom he would have by far the most reasons to resent, Odysseus doesn't actually judge or resent. I wrote a whole mini-essay on why the Vengeance saga proves that Odysseus doesn't actually seek or want vengeance on Poseidon. One might argue that he sounded like he was avenging his crew in "Six Hundred Strike" but it's important to remember that he offered Poseidon forgiveness one song earlier. He didn't lead with vengeance or resentment, but he rekindled his anger when Poseidon rejected his mercy.

My point is that Odysseus doesn't judge or resent any of the people who attempt to stand between him and his home... which shows incredible character strength in and of itself. This occurs later, but he acts similarly toward Calypso in "Not Sorry for Loving You" as well.

This is such an underrated trait of his, especially considering it fits perfectly with EPIC's themes, which revolve around seeing every perspective and balancing between ruthlessness and mercy. Honestly, I don't think those themes would even work with a protagonist who isn't so open-minded.

Coming back to "Monster," as we've established, Odysseus doesn't pass judgment on his foes. Similarly, he isn't saying that his decision to embrace ruthlessness and "become" a Monster (read more to find out why I put that in quotation marks) or any of his future actions as this Monster are justified.

I genuinely despise it when people call his arc a "villain arc" or "corruption" because that's pretty much missing the entire point. He isn't actually becoming a monster, corrupting, or genuinely changing his personality—hence why I put those quotation marks earlier. He is deliberately choosing to embrace a certain ruthless way of acting, fully knowing that it is not actually right or justified. "So what if I'm the Monster?" is self-gaslighting. He knows it's not "so what?" But he's doing it anyway because he has seen this way of acting aiding his foes. He literally says, "I must become the Monster / And then we'll make it home." He is convinced that this is what he must become because he keeps being told this by everyone.

From the top, his values or person isn't actually being corrupted. He's not really internally changing. He's merely adapting a way of behaving because he thinks it's the only way he'll still get home, and only because of that. It's really f*cking sad actually. Especially because he is wrong; his not being ruthless is not actually the problem, as we find out later.

Genuinely, his monster act lasted exactly 3,5 songs; in the second half of "Mutiny" it's already all gone because he is so afraid for his crew and what they're about to do to themselves that he instinctively goes back to wanting to save them despite how they just led a mutiny, despite how they don't listen to him regarding the cows.

Odysseus' entire arc can be described as, "He tries out mercy, and it doesn't get him home. He tries out ruthlessness, and it doesn't get him home either. In order to get home, he needs to learn balance, in Hermes' words "Every trick in his domain"." And that is also, as I believe, the main theme of EPIC: Neither ruthlessness nor mercy by itself is the solution. Both have their place; one needs balance. Or: treat people as they ask to be treated.

Only by the time of the Vengeance saga does Odysseus seem to have finally figured this out, and that's where he genuinely starts succeeding.

So no, Odysseus is no longer "The Monster" by the time of the Vengeance saga, no matter how much the visuals in "Six Hundred Strike" try to convince us otherwise. But he isn't "Just a Man" either. Did anyone besides me notice how he stopped calling himself this or justifying his weak moments like that in "Monster" and how he doesn't go back to it even after dropping the monster act?

And here we have the perfect segway into an essay I haven't written yet that might answer the question, "If now he's not a man and not a monster, what is he then?"

Well, technically Odysseus told us himself that one time he acted out of resentment... "Neither man nor mythical." But that's an essay yet to be written... I'll get to it soon, and there we might answer what actually happened in "Six Hundred Strike" and why the line "If you dance with fate I know you'll enhance your state", that I see is mostly overlooked, matters so much more than we probably all think.

Until then, know that I am not actually the first one to address the "Neither man nor mythical" significance. Credit goes to @glisten-inthedark; coming across her post on this matter genuinely enhanced my understanding of what happened so much and I need all of you to read it because it's a truly brilliant conclusion. I'll write my own essay on this topic soon, I promise. But without that post, I would've probably not come to this realization for a long while.

Either way, we end this essay with words that I will never tire of repeating: Stop villainizing Odysseus, y'all. It's not cool, not only because it's undeserved but also because it pretty much shows that you have successfully missed the point and core theme of this musical.

... See you when we inspiration for another essay strikes me. In the meantime, have a brief introduction to what that essay will cover in meme form because I can.

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Still thinking about EPIC because I just love how EPIC handles Ody’s guilt.

Now, I don’t think I need to deep dive on how Odysseus’ guilt drives him in Act I. We’ve been obsessing over that for ages lmao, but very briefly: He feels awful for killing the infant Astyanax, and tries to force Polites’ “Open Arms” philosophy in order to ease that guilt.

Then, in “Monster,” Odysseus grapples with how his guilt leads him to make mistakes, asking: “What if I’m the one who killed you / every time I caved to guilt?”

And the implication is that gives up his guilt, deciding he needed to be a monster who “threw that guilt away.” And yet.

He never does.

He never stops feeling guilty—not about what he does in Act I, and not about what he does in Act II. We see it in how he agonizes over Zeus’ impossible choice in “Thunder Bringer”; in “Love in Paradise” when he’s haunted by the ghosts of his loved ones. And it’s not like he’s unaware of what he’s doing—Odysseus knows he’s been trying to suppress his feelings, most of all guilt and remorse.

In “Six Hundred Strike,” Poseidon rhetorically asks “How will you sleep at night?” He wants to know how Odysseus is going to live with his guilt, if he even still feels guilt. Odysseus answers his rhetorical question literally, “Next to my wife.���

Which, not only is that just a raw line, but it also does give a rhetorical answer. Odysseus knows that he isn’t going to be okay, that the guilt will way him up inside for the rest of his days, but he also knows he can count on Penelope. That she will help him shoulder his burden.

And he’s prove right in “Would You Fall in Love with Me Again.”

Because, finally. After twenty years, Odysseus is home, safe and sound—and all at once the guilt hits him. The pain and regret over every decision he had to make comes crashing down the moment he no longer had to suppress it.

And he hates it; he hates himself for making those choices, even when there was no other way to get home.

So he tries to dehumanize himself once more—to convince Penelope and himself that he’s become some kind of remorseless monster. Because that’s how he coped with it last time. That’s how he survived “Monster.”

And Penelope sees right through his bullshit. She cuts through his guilt and self-loathing to tell him, in no uncertain terms, that he is still human; that he is loved. And in doing so, tells him that it’s okay to grieve, to feel that guilt and let it go. He’s suffered enough.

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Actually going insane over all the melodic motifs in the Ithaca Saga because what do you mean "keep your head down, he's aiming for the torches" is sung the same way as "keep your friends close and your enemies closer", what do you mean Odysseus's name is sung in the danger motif the same way Polyphemus's was, what do you mean the danger motif plays when Penelope asks Odysseus to move the bed, what do you mean Athena's motif mixes with Legendary when Telemachus arrives, what do you mean an instrumental of Little Wolf plays when he fights the suitors, what do you MEAN-

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i don’t think you’re ready / this is who we’re fighting / hunger is so heavy

that melody is so ughhhh is this something

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Shaking the Epic the Musical fandom by the throat rn

Penelope did NOT weave a shroud for 20 years. Odysseus was away for 20 years. 10 of those were part of the Trojan War! Okay?

They don't have instant messaging and shit back then so you didn't know who was alive/dead until after the war for the most part.

The suitors would not show up until After they were 100% sure that the king was dead. (They are Not looking for a death sentence, which it would be if he was found alive after the war).

Not only that, but it would take a few weeks to months after the trojan war was over for Ithaca to find out. She could probably buy a few months after that of: "oh he just hasn't returned yet, he'll be home soon."

From what I researched Penelope would then have 1 year after death seemed the only option for Odysseus's absence before the suitors would show up because it was considered unclean in ancient Greece to be close to death (husband, father, brother, etc. dies? You're considered unclean for a year no matter what. People have to leave you alone or else they're also considered unclean).

A burial shroud takes about 4-5 weeks to make, so it is still impressive that Penelope managed to ward off the suitors for 8-9 years. Don't get me wrong.

But it Was Not 20 years!

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A detail I love about Epic is that Odysseus is never actually named in the musical itself until he reveals it himself.

If someone went in blind into a stage play version of it without any prior knowledge about the Odyssey then all they’d learn about him first: he’s a high ranking soldier to be commanding others in a war in Horse and the Infant and learns that he’s fighting for two people named Penelope and Telemachus, possibly his wife and child (and also that he might be a king if they catch the “he will burn your house and throne” line); then that he’s a father with the confirmation that they are his wife and son in Just a Man. For the rest of the Troy saga they’ll learn the names of the rest of the cast but not the name of the main character himself, but will get titles he has or gets called by like “Captain” and “Friend” (Polites) and “Warrior of the Mind” (technically “Boy” is also one as that’s what Athena used to describe him when he killed the boar). Then in the Cyclops saga he names himself “Nobody.” It’s obviously a lie, but there’s an impact from listening to it in order with the rest of the songs because it’s the first time Odysseus claims a name for himself, and for that unknowing audience member it’s the only confirmed name they’ll have for him in the moment, until Remember Them, where finally, from the character himself, you learn that he is the infamous Odysseus, king of Ithaca.

His name only start appearing in lyrics after this point.

Even for someone who knows his name, there’s a impact that stems not just from the awesome way the line was delivered, but also from the fact that it’s the first time you hear it spoken out loud in the musical if you are listening to it in order.

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WHAT THE FUCK HOW DARE TOU MAKE ME HEAR THIS IN MY OWN TRAUMATIZED BRAIN

Ok but you know how Jorge said the lines “ruthlessness is mercy” & “maybe we can learn to forgive” are sung with the same melody?

As I was falling asleep last night, I realized that the melody for “I can’t help but wonder” is sung in the same tune & cadence as “what if I’m the monster”