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And when I say Mike is going to be a victim of Vecna in szn 5 and that's how they're gonna bring to light his feelings for Will.....

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GUYS!!!GUYS!!!GUYS!!!

ISTG Will GRABS MIKE’S ARM. Okay idk if this has been talked about before but literally LOOK. I came across this clip when I was making an edit today and I realised for the first time. In the video it’s obviously off screen but I feel like part of the reason that explains why Mike locks in (and gets a bit nervous, glancing at Will’s lips and all) isn’t just out of nowhere or Will’s tone but because Will GRIPS his GAHDAMN ARM. You can see the movement of Will’s arm going up and then Mike slightly shakes on the spot at the same time as you hear the actual sound of Will grabbing his arm and then you can also see his arm fall back down again after he’s got his point across and has turned his attention back to El again.

Okay I might be SO late to the party on this but I SWEAR I’ve never seen anyone comment on this in my literal YEARS as a Byler fan. I may also be making this a bigger deal than it is but it’s 2am and I’ve been sick in bed for a week so I’m either just dumb or delirious.

anyways. I should sleep.

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This was genuinely SUCH a crazy line bcz what new things was he even into...??? The pineapple pizza??? 🤨

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The amount of connections that season 5 is going to have to "A Wrinkle In Time" is insane!!!! Like to start we have Verna's human form being called Mr.Whatsit which is directly taken from Mrs.Whatsit in "A Wrinkle In Time" who happens to follow a lot of what I assume to be his storyline in season 5!!

We also have the connection with the episode called "Escape From Camazotz" which is derived from the book again, with Camazotz being a place that is a dark alternative plain that is controlled by "IT" (being either Vecna or the Shadow Monster) which I believe is going to be representing the upside down.

I also believe that that that episode is going to be a lot like the "A Wrinkle In Time" with holly being representative of Meg's father, as we already know she's the one who is missing and who would need to "escape" I think Meg in this would take the position of Mike as he is the one that is related to Holly, and I think that Calvin is going to be Will just from bts that we have seen. I think that episode is going to be extremely similar to the book (or the movie as it's sort of lore accurate) where it's going to be mainly Calvin and Meg (Will and Mike) in that episode being the ones to find his "dad".

An alternative theory I have to this is that Karen may actually go missing in place for the dad and while trying to find her that's when Holly is going to go missing and is going to be the Wallace of the series where she is "possessed" by Vecna and Mike is going to have to get her out (still being in Meg's shoes) by having sibling love. (I don't really believe in this version but it is possible.)

The last theory I have on what this episode could be really comes from the byler in me but I think it's going to follow suit with the first one where Mike and Will will be looking for Holly, as she's the one that is missing, and instead of Holly getting possessed and being the Wallace, I think it's going to be Will as he already has past with being possessed, I still think Will is going to be Calvin in this too as he is a friend helping look for their friends relative but I don't think he necessarily has to be limited to one character. I think when they are trying to start looking for Holly, Vecna (Mrs.Whatsit) is going to inform Will when and where to start (giving him the neck chills or a vision). When he's possessed I feel like to get him out of the possession it's going to be love, as for Wallace that is what gets him out, however family isn't going to be there for him, not like they were in the shed scene in season 2 (which does truly resemble Wallace's possession and how they got Wallace out of that state) the only person there with him is going to be Mike. I think this is (if byler is endgame) where we get a sort of confession, a moment where Mike talks about memories and things such as that (maybe even having flashbacks as scene in leaks). This theory to me seems the most plausible (maybe because it's byler related but I digress..) it ties into themes that we already see within Will and connections that he already has that ties him to certain characters in "A Wrinkle Through Time", I am really excited to see how this truly plays out though because the more I look into it the more "A Wrinkle In Time" actually fits into the Stranger Things storyline and I think them finally playing around with the idea of the two things connecting would be really fun!

(Also side note Calvin and Meg do end up together so if Will really is with him the whole time then that connection would be even more insane.)

Also to add for anyone who doesn't believe there is going to be that much of a connection to "A Wrinkle In Time" in season 5 and that these are all just coincidences, this is bts photo that Ross Duffer posted on his instagram... it is literally the book.

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Byler doubt so real that I'm forcing myself to watch mileven edits to expose myself.

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I'm genuinely so curious on how some of you guys think byler is going to confess??

Like how is the confession going, to me I can only think of cheesy scenarios that Ik aren't going to happen like el asking mike if he loves Will and him saying yes 😭😭

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we're past the appropriate rejection window honestly. remember how steve is rejected by robin in the same season he develops feelings for her? or how dustin is symbolically rejected by max in the season he develops feelings for her? that's because it would have been a super weird choice to build it up for a really long time and then end it with a rejection.

there's a reason why in season three when joyce rejects hopper, we all immediately know it isn't a real rejection, even though they're fighting, she's grieving and planning to leave, and he's being unreasonable and unfair. there's reason after reason to think it's not going to happen, but because he's had feelings for her since season one we know it's going somewhere.

who waits on the edge of their seat to watch someone get turned down? who stays subscribed to netflix for that? that kind of thing would not be interesting, it would just be a confusing way to spend the increasingly limited time right before your show ends. penultimate season. every scene has to mean something bigger, all the way down to lucas talking about new coke or mike trying a new kind of pizza.

in writing you primarily only want to wait and build up to things if the result is going to be worth waiting for. rejection of the perpetually tortured gay kid is predictable and doesn't function to do much at all story wise. easy to write around, too, but they did the opposite. they built will's character around this.

they also have no need to dip back into the rejection pool narratively, doesn't add to the story. especially this late into the game. (sidenote, weird how people were not nearly as sure robin was going to be rejected despite her love interest being mirrored to mike, significantly less developed, and introduced so late, but i digress)

if they wanted mike to reject will, it should have been during the van scene. he should have given mike the painting and said something along the lines of, "i know you don't feel the same, but i really want you to know how el sees you, how we all see you. you're the heart. we'd fall apart without you." it would have still been sad but it would have been an ending.

because plotlines need to end! they need to end when it makes sense for them to, not before or after. dragging it along means they either realize they have something worth dragging, or have deliberately decided to prolong a plot point past its logical conclusion for the sole purpose of milking every last second of misery they can out of will, which would be needlessly cruel and so, so gratuitous.

it's not like the van scene NEEDED to happen exactly how it happened. any scene that is solely character driven with no impact on the plot can be rewritten over and over and changed into whatever it has to be. it was written as the most romantic mike moment in any season, and it was filmed and lit and directed extremely specifically. zero accidents.

robin and vickie was unnecessary without a plan. mike and will was unnecessary unless they have a plan.

so they must have a plan. if mike was going to reject will, it had to be in season four. but mike didn't reject will. not at all. he was actually very, very moved by what will had to say, he just didn't entirely realize what it was he was saying.

in fact, they made sure that this plotline was not just unsolved, but that it was obligated to come back, by having it go against the character's most consistent moral line of friends don't lie. and gave it to the character who, in his introductory scene, refuses to lie. dishonesty has genuine ramifications in this show, and will's is attached to a physical (treasured) object that has to come back into play. they can't sweep it under the rug and mike can't reject will without it coming off as... just... far too late.

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There's a real possibility we get a Will Byers centric love triangle in ST5

We know the Duffers love a good love triangle.

So much so, they've given us one (or several) in every season of Stranger Things thus far—and I don’t think they’ll break that streak in Season 5.

One thing I’ve noticed is that while some love triangles stretch across multiple seasons (like Steve/Nancy/Jonathan), the writers also introduce at least one new triangle each season.

Here’s a quick breakdown:

S1: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan S2: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan + Joyce / Hopper / Bob + Lucas / Dustin / Max S3: Robin / Steve / Tammy + Joyce / Hopper / Alexei + Joyce / Hopper / Mr Clarke S4: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan + Mike / El / Will + Robin / Vickie / Vickie's ex-boyfriend S5: Steve / Nancy / Jonathan (likely resolved) + Mike / El / Will (will come to a head) + ???

Sometimes they’re played straight, but the writers also love to openly mock the love triangle trope, too—especially in Season 3:

For example, Hopper gets irrationally jealous over Joyce talking to Mr Clarke and even Alexei—prompting Joyce’s sarcastic line about how every man she talks to must be her boyfriend. And of course, there's Steve wrongly assuming Robin has a crush on him, then confessing to her, only to find out she actually liked Tammy Thompson.

Basically, there’s no one way the writers use this trope. They clearly enjoy it—but more importantly, they enjoy subverting it.

So, call me delusional but I think it's likely that we could be getting another Will Byers love triangle in Season 5:

He's the main character of the season and his arc will (partially), revolve around his "coming of age" and acceptance of his sexuality, after all.

Will has consistently been portrayed as someone who is considered attractive or desirable in-universe. In every season except Season 3, a girl shows interest in him despite his nerdiness and perceived queerness.

And now, it looks like the Duffer Brothers are visually rebranding him as a romantic lead:

His new hair and costume design feels both heroic and boyish. The flannel—once a staple of his wardrobe and a symbol of his innocence—is slowly being phased out, suggesting a gradual loss of that innocence. However, he’s still buttoned up. That tells me Will is stepping into his manhood (and by extension, his sexuality), but he's still holding something back. He's going to need to be pushed out of his comfort zone; both physically and emotionally.

Even narratively, there are established links which hint at a possible non-Mike love interest:

When we look back at Will’s comment about not falling in love, we often read it as foreshadowing his feelings for Mike—or hinting that he already is in love with him. But I also interpret it as something more: Will doesn’t believe he will ever inspire love (or romantic attraction). He sees himself as undesirable.

Think about the four original members of the Party. Yes, they’re all considered uncool nerds to some degree—yet three of them are affirmed through romantic connection: Lucas has Max. Dustin has Suzie. Mike has El. They each receive validation and the feeling of being wanted.

Will does not.

And yet, the writers have made a consistent effort to show us that Will is considered attractive—despite his belief that he isn’t, and despite the lack of romantic validation he receives. That creates a real disconnect. A kind of cognitive dissonance.

Having Will repeatedly receive attention from girls—only to reject them or appear disinterested—was an effective way to subtly hint at his queerness. But it’s happened so many times now, that there needs to be a payoff.

What is the long-term point of making the canonically gay kid, who already believes he’s undesirable, only receive interest from women?

Er, there isn’t one.

It makes sense, then, to give Will the opportunity to experience mutual same-sex attraction with someone who isn't Mike.

Because Will's arc about accepting his sexuality doesn't just have to culminate in the realization that Mike loves him too (as sweet as that is).

It should culminate with the knowledge that queerness is valid, that he is considered desirable and worthy of romantic interest, and that he isn't alone in experiencing queerness.

Additionally, as mentioned above, Will is already perceived as queer—he’s been bullied for it his entire life, despite never explicitly coming out. Hawkins is a small town where word travels fast. So if there is another young gay guy in town, chances are… they’ve already heard of “Zombie Boy” Will Byers.

He'd certainly be on their radar: he’s good-looking, he’s mysterious, and he’s still closeted, which means he’d likely be discreet.

And let’s not forget where Will was emotionally at the end of Season 4, especially regarding his feelings for Mike:

He’s starting from ground zero in Season 5. He has zero hope that Mike feels the same way, and he’s likely going to be making zero moves.

In fact, most Byler theorists agree—it makes sense that Mike will have to be the initiator in Season 5. Will is just too emotionally shut down to make the first move.

But… wait a minute.

If this season is supposed to be about Will coming into his own as a young gay man—about self-acceptance, confidence, and owning his identity—how does that make sense if Mike is the one initiating everything?!

Well… maybe Mike needs to make the first move when it comes to Byler. But that doesn’t mean Will has to stay passive the whole season.

It’s possible that Will could gain some much-needed confidence—maybe even a bit of romantic “practice”—by taking a more active role with someone else first.

Giving Will a (temporary) new love interest would also level-out the playing field between himself and Mike:

There's a real sense of karmic justice and ironic foreshadowing in Stranger Things.

Will's jealousy of Mike and El's relationship has been hinted at for two seasons now—and he even complained that Mike only called a couple times while El had a "book of letters" from him.

What’s interesting is that even after Mike takes accountability for their argument and they make up, that specific comment—about the phone calls and letters—is never addressed. It lingers.

That’s why I think we could see a similar conversation (or even a full-blown argument) between Mike and Will in Season 5. But this time, Will might be the one receiving phone calls or letters—from someone else.

And let’s not forget: it’s possible that the Byers are temporarily staying with the Wheelers in Season 5. If Will has a secret admirer, and he’s trying to keep it quiet, Mike is going to find out. (Excellent way to manufacture drama).

I also feel compelled to reiterate that the Duffers have shown time and time again: they can handle love triangles in many different ways.

They can play it for comedy. They can make it completely one-sided or delusional—like Mike projecting his own jealousy, much like Hopper did with Joyce in Season 3. A love triangle doesn’t have to be serious or long-lasting. It could span multiple episodes, or just one. It could involve a kiss—or zero physical contact at all.

And it doesn’t have to disrupt a Byler endgame—in fact, quite the opposite:

Seeing Will Byers receive romantic attention from another male character would serve as a reminder to the audience that Will is desirable and that he has options—this increases the stakes for Mike.

The GA will start wondering if this is really Will's endgame, and if he is truly ready to get over Mike. The GA, especially those who never shipped Byler before, may find themselves unexpectedly invested. They might even feel disappointed or sad at the thought of Will "moving on."

It also creates space for the writers to show us jealous Mike. Just as we've seen jealous, longing Will, a temporary love triangle allows us to explore Mike’s feelings through that same lens of romantic insecurity.

This brings the possibility of Byler to the forefront of the GA's subconscious. At the same time, it invites them to root for Mike, and therefore Byler.

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Noticing...

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Multiple leakers and ppl who live in the filming area!

Lowkey milkvan kiss but Mike is eyes wide open and looking at Will...

A "not so romantic" milkvan kiss is already confirmed for mid s5 this could be a possibility PLSPLSPSLSPALSOKS

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im thinking about Hopper watching his basically adopted daughter get together with the guy he can't stand and he will AGAIN watch his new adopted SON being in love and getting together with the same guy AND I LAUGH EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

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Lowkey milkvan kiss but Mike is eyes wide open and looking at Will...

A "not so romantic" milkvan kiss is already confirmed for mid s5 this could be a possibility PLSPLSPSLSPALSOKS

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The amount of hate byler gets is so insane to me because like NO other non-canon ship gets as much hate as byler, and byler shippers, do..

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yeah.... mike definitely experiences religious guilt..... church scene is about to go CRAZY

they knew what they were doing by putting him in a hellfire club shirt next to a girl wearing a cross earring

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Let's do a quick comparison of El's and Will's first and last scenes...

First shot of season 4:

(El painting Hopper's figurine for her diorama vs Will making a romantic painting for Mike)

Last one on one scene of season 4:

What we know of season 5:

In conclusion, once again, El's personal arc is about family more than romance and her relationship with Hopper seems to be what the writers are focusing on. Will's arc is about romantic love and his feelings for Mike. This kinda spells out how the ending of the love triangle, don't you think? Why would the writers focus on those two pairings in the last season of the show if Mike and El are supposed to be this endgame power couple? Why did Mike promise to be a team and to kill Vecna with his best friend who's secretely in love with him instead of his superhero girlfriend? Where exactly is the supposed "main couple of the show"?

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S5 byler I'm actually so ready for you!!!

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A Mike and Jonathan over Wills safety will be on my screen in the bright year of 2025 this is peace.